I'm a rather far-to-the-left liberal, and I do not oppose gun ownership. I'd like to see more accountability and monitoring, which I think fits under your criterion of "a few reasonable laws", but I'm too terrified of my neighbors owning a shotgun or rifle.
Dean's pro-NRA stance, for instance, isn't a make-or-break position for me.
Ogged, the decision isn't yours alone? I know you have a fiancee, but wasn't there a time before her and after college? I myself own many guns. They protect me from tyranny and provide me with many diverting hours on the hunting grounds of my estate. Long live My Cold Dead Hands!
I couldn't have afforded a (decent) gun in the time between college and my fiancee. And it's not something I'm very motivated to do. At some point, I probably would have purchased one and shot it at a range (and perhaps stored it there).
Well of course I had to read the Greenspun post after you made it sound so irresistible, and you're right--he is snotty. But he and--much more sweetly--you have a good point.
Among urban liberals, I have often come across an automatic contempt for and fear of anyone who would ever want to own a gun. I'm not a gun enthusiast or even a gun owner--I'm just worried about that widening gap between the liberal Democrats and the just-plain-folks constituency they so desperately need.
Or so I think, anyway. I grew up rural. And though I've never owned anything more dangerous than a pump bb rifle, I shot more than a few guns at more than a few old cans back in the day. By which I mean back when I was, say, 8 or 9. That experience might be why I'm predisposed to accept arguments against the efficacy of gun control as a crime-fighting method (for instance, "What good does gun control really do, when there are already 300 million guns on the street?") People who grow up in places where guns are used mainly to shoot other people probably have a different bias.
Like any good liberal, I think we have a collective responsibility to protect the weak and unlucky from harm, including those whose weaknesses include suicide or momentary murderous rage and those unlucky enough to know them. Keeping guns out of the hands of nutballs, criminals, and kids -- well, kids who want to shoot something other than cans, at least -- is a noble endeavour. But I don't get all worked up about it, and I bet if my liberal suburban neighbors knew that, they would indeed think ill of me.
That last bit is just my question. We hardly have a big sample here, but there are three of us who would never vote right of Democrat and none of us would get in a lather over the softening of the Dems' anti-gun position. Could there be more of us? A lot of us? And wouldn't it be wonderful to take a key Republican hot-button away?
I'm a rather far-to-the-left liberal, and I do not oppose gun ownership. I'd like to see more accountability and monitoring, which I think fits under your criterion of "a few reasonable laws", but I'm too terrified of my neighbors owning a shotgun or rifle.
Dean's pro-NRA stance, for instance, isn't a make-or-break position for me.
Posted by PZ Myers | Link to this comment | 09-15-03 12:11 PM
Yikes. I meant not too terrified of my neighbors.
That kind of reversed the sense of what I meant.
Posted by PZ Myers | Link to this comment | 09-15-03 12:12 PM
That Freud will bite your butt, every time.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-15-03 12:13 PM
Ogged, the decision isn't yours alone? I know you have a fiancee, but wasn't there a time before her and after college? I myself own many guns. They protect me from tyranny and provide me with many diverting hours on the hunting grounds of my estate. Long live My Cold Dead Hands!
Posted by Bob | Link to this comment | 09-15-03 3:29 PM
I couldn't have afforded a (decent) gun in the time between college and my fiancee. And it's not something I'm very motivated to do. At some point, I probably would have purchased one and shot it at a range (and perhaps stored it there).
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-15-03 3:36 PM
Well of course I had to read the Greenspun post after you made it sound so irresistible, and you're right--he is snotty. But he and--much more sweetly--you have a good point.
Among urban liberals, I have often come across an automatic contempt for and fear of anyone who would ever want to own a gun. I'm not a gun enthusiast or even a gun owner--I'm just worried about that widening gap between the liberal Democrats and the just-plain-folks constituency they so desperately need.
Posted by linda | Link to this comment | 09-15-03 6:51 PM
Key word in linda's comment: urban.
Or so I think, anyway. I grew up rural. And though I've never owned anything more dangerous than a pump bb rifle, I shot more than a few guns at more than a few old cans back in the day. By which I mean back when I was, say, 8 or 9. That experience might be why I'm predisposed to accept arguments against the efficacy of gun control as a crime-fighting method (for instance, "What good does gun control really do, when there are already 300 million guns on the street?") People who grow up in places where guns are used mainly to shoot other people probably have a different bias.
Like any good liberal, I think we have a collective responsibility to protect the weak and unlucky from harm, including those whose weaknesses include suicide or momentary murderous rage and those unlucky enough to know them. Keeping guns out of the hands of nutballs, criminals, and kids -- well, kids who want to shoot something other than cans, at least -- is a noble endeavour. But I don't get all worked up about it, and I bet if my liberal suburban neighbors knew that, they would indeed think ill of me.
Posted by jhp | Link to this comment | 09-15-03 7:41 PM
That last bit is just my question. We hardly have a big sample here, but there are three of us who would never vote right of Democrat and none of us would get in a lather over the softening of the Dems' anti-gun position. Could there be more of us? A lot of us? And wouldn't it be wonderful to take a key Republican hot-button away?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-15-03 11:01 PM