Ugh. Tacky, tawdry, what's the word? And then there's the commenter who sez that today his cheery thought is tha he doesn't want to forget "the thirty percent of French people who wished US defeat in Iraq" (where he pulled that one from gawd only knows). I've really seen some maddening stuff on the net today, and I say that as someone who works right by the WTC site.
I think we were all aware of the "common thread," but some of us were perhaps more aware of salient differences.
The grief of each individual loss is always incomprehensible and incommensurate with our ability to understand, but, as a society, we haven't borne and are not even threatened with the scale of suffering and devastation wreaked by Nazism and totalitarian Communism. We have not become heir to the emotional weight of those historical events by way of our current travails.
And to say that "Why We Fight" is "general" is about as genuine as saying "Sorry if that went over your heads. Honest." You know well that the "why" of our "fight" means the reasons for war in Iraq and against Al Qaeda--now and specifically. Again, you trade on the clarity of history to gain purchase for a controversial course of action being undertaken right now.
Finally, one thing for you to consider, which I don't think you intend at all: the juxtaposition of images from September 11 with images from those other catastrophes implies that you believe September 11 wasn't horrible enough, all by itself.
So, I'm reading the Republic right now. The just man cannot act unjustly. Why? Because injustice begets injustice. Look to Israel. Both sides have perpetuated and recieved injustice. The only solution is if their socieites could decide to be stronger than retaliation. We see this in our own country. Jails were built to protect criminals from vigilantism. Laws and courts protected the perpetrators against the wrath of the family of the wronged. Retaliation destroys societies. That seems empirically and manifestidly true. All this by way of saying those holocaustic images should inspire horror and sadness, not anger. We should enter war sadly. To attack in anger or rejoice over victory, a victory bought, as in the case of the War in Iraw, by the deaths of children, is both morally repugnant and dangerous. It opens the door for further injustice. If anything good is to come out of Sept. 11, it will be that we are driven to widen our worldviews, and intervene more often when other nations need help. If we merely turn around and further the propogation of injustice, then we have made a tragedy the worse.
as a society, we haven't borne and are not even threatened with the scale of suffering and devastation wreaked by Nazism and totalitarian Communism. We have not become heir to the emotional weight of those historical events by way of our current travails
I agree. If you misunderstood me, I'm sorry. Honest.
Words failed me on the second anniversary of September 11 so I chose to post pictures instead. Because of the wordless nature of the post it was left wide open to different interpretations and reactions. I knew that going in, so I don't begrudge you your different take on it. Sorry for being flip earlier.
oh my god.
Posted by freakgirl | Link to this comment | 09-11-03 11:58 AM
Ugh. Tacky, tawdry, what's the word? And then there's the commenter who sez that today his cheery thought is tha he doesn't want to forget "the thirty percent of French people who wished US defeat in Iraq" (where he pulled that one from gawd only knows). I've really seen some maddening stuff on the net today, and I say that as someone who works right by the WTC site.
Posted by grainnebaol | Link to this comment | 09-11-03 2:03 PM
I don't think people understand how they're demeaning what they intend to honor.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-11-03 2:06 PM
The common thread that unites Al Qaeda, the Nazis, and the Communists is that they are all anti-liberal totalitarians.
And the title of the post "Why We Fight" was meant to be general, not that we are fighting in Iraq because of what Hitler or Pol Pot did.
Sorry if that went over your heads. Honest.
Posted by Michael J. Totten | Link to this comment | 09-11-03 4:15 PM
I think we were all aware of the "common thread," but some of us were perhaps more aware of salient differences.
The grief of each individual loss is always incomprehensible and incommensurate with our ability to understand, but, as a society, we haven't borne and are not even threatened with the scale of suffering and devastation wreaked by Nazism and totalitarian Communism. We have not become heir to the emotional weight of those historical events by way of our current travails.
And to say that "Why We Fight" is "general" is about as genuine as saying "Sorry if that went over your heads. Honest." You know well that the "why" of our "fight" means the reasons for war in Iraq and against Al Qaeda--now and specifically. Again, you trade on the clarity of history to gain purchase for a controversial course of action being undertaken right now.
Finally, one thing for you to consider, which I don't think you intend at all: the juxtaposition of images from September 11 with images from those other catastrophes implies that you believe September 11 wasn't horrible enough, all by itself.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-11-03 5:43 PM
So, I'm reading the Republic right now. The just man cannot act unjustly. Why? Because injustice begets injustice. Look to Israel. Both sides have perpetuated and recieved injustice. The only solution is if their socieites could decide to be stronger than retaliation. We see this in our own country. Jails were built to protect criminals from vigilantism. Laws and courts protected the perpetrators against the wrath of the family of the wronged. Retaliation destroys societies. That seems empirically and manifestidly true. All this by way of saying those holocaustic images should inspire horror and sadness, not anger. We should enter war sadly. To attack in anger or rejoice over victory, a victory bought, as in the case of the War in Iraw, by the deaths of children, is both morally repugnant and dangerous. It opens the door for further injustice. If anything good is to come out of Sept. 11, it will be that we are driven to widen our worldviews, and intervene more often when other nations need help. If we merely turn around and further the propogation of injustice, then we have made a tragedy the worse.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 09-11-03 8:50 PM
as a society, we haven't borne and are not even threatened with the scale of suffering and devastation wreaked by Nazism and totalitarian Communism. We have not become heir to the emotional weight of those historical events by way of our current travails
I agree. If you misunderstood me, I'm sorry. Honest.
Words failed me on the second anniversary of September 11 so I chose to post pictures instead. Because of the wordless nature of the post it was left wide open to different interpretations and reactions. I knew that going in, so I don't begrudge you your different take on it. Sorry for being flip earlier.
Posted by Michael J. Totten | Link to this comment | 09-12-03 3:07 AM
Understood. Thanks for the response.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-12-03 7:41 AM