I don't know why you're shocked, O, but for me it's mostly disgust that so many Americans could let that guy manipulate them by their basest instincts. And with his phony Christianity.
My friends and I worked so hard yesterday, knocking on doors and annoying people to the polls. We were energized and optimistic, and today I can hardly think about all this without crying or wanting to punch someone. I thought the election would be about incompetence or the Supreme Court or something reasonable. Instead it was about "values." How do you sway someone who doesn't believe that discussion is a good way to make decisions?
I'm grasping at straws, but do we know Kerry conceded? Everything I've seen is sourced to a White House aide -- if there's any potential possibility that Kerry might pull it out, creating that illusion of inevitability helps Bush. It's what they did last time.
Well, I don't know what the explanation is, but the people have spoken. I had more faith in the common sense of the electorate, but I guess that hate can triumph here and now as much as at any other time or place.
It's going to be a tough row to hoe, but we need to keep fighting. Having three new Roy Moores on the Supreme Court won't help. It's going to be a rough ride - hold on tight.
We lost this one fair and square. Despite all the legwork from our side, the GOP's church-based GOTV operation was simply more effective. I'm shocked too, more by the spread of the popular vote than the actual loss itself.
It won't take too long until Bush's two card houses - Iraq and the federal budget - collapse under their own weight and the nation and the government are forced to deal with the reality of both. The only silver lining I can find is that Bush will have to deal with it and he'll have nobody to pass the blame onto. In the meantime, the true disaster is that the theocrats have just assumed absolute control of the federal judiciary for twenty years at a minimum.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - Mencken
From what they've been saying on NPR it sounds like some people weren't able to vote (running out of provisional ballots in some locations, broken machines, etc...) I find it difficult to swallow that we have a leader that only represents half our country. Ohio is the new Florida...I smell process manipulation in both places.
We lost. They beat us. They beat us with cheap shots and dirty deals; they beat us with the low road and the sleight of hand. We get so enthusiastic about this great process, we get so sure of the persuasiveness of our arguments, that we forget how corrupt the process is and how few people actually care about arguments.
I have no doubt that process manipulation was systematic, deliberate, and widespread. I also think the apostropher's right: we lost fair and square--which is to say, the manipulation didn't make the difference (unless we get news of something truly massive). What I'm really shocked about is not that the evangelicals turned out, but that our folks didn't. It doesn't square with any of my anecdotal reality.
And I'm ashamed that I live in such a cocoon--despite efforts to get out of it--that I really didn't see this coming at all.
Answer 1 - The democrats weren't selling anything the American electorate wanted.
Answer 2 - You are in denial and have been for some time. The majority of Americans don't think like you, and your tendency to insult anyone who disagress with you puts you further into your own cacoon.
I was watching TV all last night - everyone was shocked. Larry King was fucking shocked. Tucker Carlson was shocked. I haven't lived through a lot of elections, but this amount of shock isn't normal. I want to know what happened.
We got ratfucked. Perhaps we even helped them do it.
As to the second question, well. . . Who would have believed it? It's stunning.
Posted by Hal | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 8:54 AM
I don't know why you're shocked, O, but for me it's mostly disgust that so many Americans could let that guy manipulate them by their basest instincts. And with his phony Christianity.
My friends and I worked so hard yesterday, knocking on doors and annoying people to the polls. We were energized and optimistic, and today I can hardly think about all this without crying or wanting to punch someone. I thought the election would be about incompetence or the Supreme Court or something reasonable. Instead it was about "values." How do you sway someone who doesn't believe that discussion is a good way to make decisions?
At least we got Pennsylvania for Kerry.
Posted by Bob | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 9:18 AM
Why the fuck did Kerry concede? My understanding is that there was at least a small chance that he could pull Ohio off.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 9:39 AM
Why did Kerry concede? I'm guessing he got word the provisional ballots would not be enough. That, combined with popular vote going against him.
Posted by mcm | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 9:42 AM
There were fewer provisional ballots than initially reported -- not enough to cover the gap.
Posted by Bob | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 9:44 AM
I'm grasping at straws, but do we know Kerry conceded? Everything I've seen is sourced to a White House aide -- if there's any potential possibility that Kerry might pull it out, creating that illusion of inevitability helps Bush. It's what they did last time.
But maybe there's better sourcing than I know.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 9:47 AM
Well, I don't know what the explanation is, but the people have spoken. I had more faith in the common sense of the electorate, but I guess that hate can triumph here and now as much as at any other time or place.
It's going to be a tough row to hoe, but we need to keep fighting. Having three new Roy Moores on the Supreme Court won't help. It's going to be a rough ride - hold on tight.
Posted by LarryB | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 9:48 AM
We lost this one fair and square. Despite all the legwork from our side, the GOP's church-based GOTV operation was simply more effective. I'm shocked too, more by the spread of the popular vote than the actual loss itself.
It won't take too long until Bush's two card houses - Iraq and the federal budget - collapse under their own weight and the nation and the government are forced to deal with the reality of both. The only silver lining I can find is that Bush will have to deal with it and he'll have nobody to pass the blame onto. In the meantime, the true disaster is that the theocrats have just assumed absolute control of the federal judiciary for twenty years at a minimum.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - Mencken
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 10:02 AM
From what they've been saying on NPR it sounds like some people weren't able to vote (running out of provisional ballots in some locations, broken machines, etc...) I find it difficult to swallow that we have a leader that only represents half our country. Ohio is the new Florida...I smell process manipulation in both places.
Posted by Monkeyface | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 10:07 AM
We lost. They beat us. They beat us with cheap shots and dirty deals; they beat us with the low road and the sleight of hand. We get so enthusiastic about this great process, we get so sure of the persuasiveness of our arguments, that we forget how corrupt the process is and how few people actually care about arguments.
Posted by Jonathan Dresner | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 11:39 AM
I have no doubt that process manipulation was systematic, deliberate, and widespread. I also think the apostropher's right: we lost fair and square--which is to say, the manipulation didn't make the difference (unless we get news of something truly massive). What I'm really shocked about is not that the evangelicals turned out, but that our folks didn't. It doesn't square with any of my anecdotal reality.
And I'm ashamed that I live in such a cocoon--despite efforts to get out of it--that I really didn't see this coming at all.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 11:42 AM
Answer 1 - The democrats weren't selling anything the American electorate wanted.
Answer 2 - You are in denial and have been for some time. The majority of Americans don't think like you, and your tendency to insult anyone who disagress with you puts you further into your own cacoon.
Posted by whatever | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 12:51 PM
I was watching TV all last night - everyone was shocked. Larry King was fucking shocked. Tucker Carlson was shocked. I haven't lived through a lot of elections, but this amount of shock isn't normal. I want to know what happened.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 12:59 PM
nswer 1 - The democrats weren't selling anything the American electorate wanted.
It's a 51% margin of victory, asswipe.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 11- 3-04 1:00 PM
Adding on to Michael's thought - it's less than 1% of the voters in one state.
Mandate, my sweet grandmother's patootie.
Posted by Doug | Link to this comment | 11- 4-04 2:07 PM
It's a 51% margin of victory, asswipe.
Just to be an annoying asshole: it's actually a 3% margin of victory.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 4-04 2:26 PM
What many Liberals seem to forget is that many Midwesterns/Southerns have basic tenets which they live by:
1) Government is bad
2) Church/Bible is good
If 1 tries to trump 2, then 1 is even more bad
Of course, you can find specific instances which refut these tenets, but this does not nullify these two basic "rules"
Posted by Doug B | Link to this comment | 11- 4-04 8:14 PM