The REASON that all of that is done is to show our people what might happen to them if they're taken prisoner by an enemy which DOES NOT adhere to the laws of war. In other words, an immoral enemy, willing to use torture on prisoners, kind of like, well, us now.
I note as well that boxing or wrestling without consent would be assault and battery, sex without consent is rape, and so forth -- a lot of the difference between what is described there and what happens to real prisoners is that what Goldberg is describing can be stopped at any time -- the trainee is ultimately in control. By contrast, actual torture, the things that Gonzales and Bush have sanctioned, may never stop. The torturer's complete control of one's body, one's humanity, is much of point.
Of course, that's not something I expect anyone on the American right to get anymore. At one point I might have expected everyone to understand that. Now I'm surprised when someone who describes themselves as a conservative actually opposes torture.
Mind you, if the Air Force put up advertisements at its recruiting centres with photos of trainee pilots in cages like this, I suspect they know that people would back out of the room and feel very bad about co-operating.
The REASON that all of that is done is to show our people what might happen to them if they're taken prisoner by an enemy which DOES NOT adhere to the laws of war. In other words, an immoral enemy, willing to use torture on prisoners, kind of like, well, us now.
I note as well that boxing or wrestling without consent would be assault and battery, sex without consent is rape, and so forth -- a lot of the difference between what is described there and what happens to real prisoners is that what Goldberg is describing can be stopped at any time -- the trainee is ultimately in control. By contrast, actual torture, the things that Gonzales and Bush have sanctioned, may never stop. The torturer's complete control of one's body, one's humanity, is much of point.
Of course, that's not something I expect anyone on the American right to get anymore. At one point I might have expected everyone to understand that. Now I'm surprised when someone who describes themselves as a conservative actually opposes torture.
Posted by paperwight | Link to this comment | 01- 7-05 11:40 AM
Goldberg: either stupid or mendacious.
Not mutually exclusive categories.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 01- 7-05 11:46 AM
Also, the survival school training people go through, they know that it is training and they will not actually be killed or severly injured.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01- 7-05 11:53 AM
And then there's Spec. Sean Baker.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 01- 7-05 11:57 AM
Jesus. I'd forgotten about that one, Matt. Thanks, I guess.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 01- 7-05 12:00 PM
Mind you, if the Air Force put up advertisements at its recruiting centres with photos of trainee pilots in cages like this, I suspect they know that people would back out of the room and feel very bad about co-operating.
Kind of like the Iraqis, really...
Posted by David Tiley | Link to this comment | 01- 8-05 9:21 AM