I have never found Patricia Arquette plausible as the "sexy woman" of any movie she's in -- maybe it's just those damn super-short hipster bangs. I hate super-short bangs.
Julia Roberts, Adam, if she were to meet you, would probably bite your head off. She could do it. The only reason I can conceive of for her having such a huge jaw is that she, like many snakes, consumes her prey whole.
Is Paris Hilton really "supposed" to be attractive, though? I thought that she was supposed to be just a grotesque walking piece of shit, as though the bare reality of Capital itself had a TV show. "A porn video -- starring... MONEY!"
I find most of the woman that are presented as "attractive" to be, in fact, rather attractive. (Including Patricia Arquette.) The only glaring, terrible exceptions I can think of, besides Sarah Jessica Parker, are:
Minnie Driver
Amanda Peet
Sarah Michelle Gellar (nowadays; she got wicked angular in her 20s)
Renée Zellweger
Mena Suvari, most of the time
I'm not a good judge with guys, so I'll just say that, until I saw Kevin Costner named "Sexiest Man Alive" by People, it literally never occurred to me that he was good looking. Same with (I think) Nick Nolte.
Julia Roberts falls into that strange category of women whose still photos look bad but whose moving image is generally pretty good. That _Girl with Pearl Earing/Lost in Translation girl is much the same. Of course you get people who run the other way as well --- great in stills, lousy in motion.
My personal choice would be Brittany Murphy. My god, just what does this junkie-looking woman have on Hollywood producers that she keeps getting roles?
Also what's the deal with Ashley Simpson? Given that she has no vocal talent and no dance talent, I assume she is supposed to be attractive, but does anyone actually claim this? The only reason she's not on my list with Brittany Murphy is that I know of no media blitz that's actually trying to pretend she's worth looking at.
I'm a bit leery of the SJP bashing--Fametracker says of her, "Has built a career in Hollywood as a leading lady despite not being conventionally attractive"--and look! here we are talking about how unattractive she is!
I'm also a bit uncomfortable with this because the first time I had the "SJP is not all that" reaction, it occurred to me that an ex of mine, who I still think is tremendously beautiful, looks kind of like her with completely different coloring.
(Note also the followup from FT: "If by 'not conventionally attractive' you mean 'Lee Harvey Schnozzwald,' then, yes, she's not conventionally attractive. She's still a size 0, though.)
(Also, I hope the ex isn't lurking or worse yet commenting pseudonymously. Or maybe I don't. Hi!)
More than misogynistic, I think it's homophobic -- none of us guys want to sit around talking about whether men are or are not attractive. It's not as much of a problem, culturally, for women to have strong opinions on other women, so we fall into these ruts.
Or maybe it's both misogynistic and homophobic. And racist! We're talking about a whole lot of white women, here. In fact, the most racial diversity I've noticed is a shift from white to white trash (i.e. Christina Aguilera).
I can't speak for others, but for myself I frequently can't tell movie men apart. It's a real problem (and one of the reasons I don't watch many movies) in that many of them look the same to me. Of course there are those who, for whatever reason, stand out --- Tom Cruise, Tommy Lee Jones, Jeff Goldblum. But I don't know if I could pick Colin Farrell out of a lineup. I think I know what Nick Nolte looks like, but Kevin Costner is kinda vague --- I might well have him confused with Mel Gibson.
As for the supposed racism thing, well we're dealing with the hand the US media gives us. Personally I think many East Asian women are quite lovely, but we don't have many of them appearing in US media,, and so evenn if I knew names (which I don't) those names wouldn't mean much to other people. It's not a racist thing --- heck most of us, I'm sure, would look on in bafflement when presented with a list of supposedly hot European women, a list that grows ever more obscure as one moves from the UK to France/Italy to Germany to Holland and the Nordics to the Poland/Hungary area to Ukraine and Romania.
Sean Connery (i just don't get it--even his younger days; I've always found Brosnan to be a MUCH more attractive Bond--but "attractive" doesn't always mean "better!")
The SUV thing? I'm not sure of her name but she's def. got a reality show on MTV (caught a commercial for it last night and me and my roommate couldn't get over how...just...bleH) called PowerGirls or something like that. I remember it a while back, 2002 I think--she just drove over people and then like 3 days later, issued an apology only after she was facing legal action
#37: i think the misogynistic bit was sort of b/c this post is *not* men talking about attractive women, but rather, men talking about women they found unattractive, giving reasons like she's a "grotesque walking piece of shit" and the like.
This is interesting. I think that most of the women listed so far (with the exception of SJP, who I've never found attractive) would nonetheless be the most attractive person in, say, your office. Shrug. The ones I don't get:
44: The last thread was men talking about attractive women, and a trend was implied. I think Adam's flights of fancy regarding Paris Hilton don't really constitute misogyny. Baa might should pop in here to ask him what he's got against capital per se, though.
joe: it's true. i love john cusack (although i wouldn't put him on my celebrity 5). specifically, the underage "say anything" jc, in the clash t-shirt.
That's certainly the best picture I've seen of him, Joe. The mental image I have is of him standing beside Janet Jackson's exposed nipple, looking for all the world like he was retarded.
I don't know that subjectivity makes it pointless. We're not looking for definitive answers, after all.
Justin Timberlake reminds me of an unpopular boy in my grade school whose real name was Michael, but, for some reason, people took to calling Ned. Then he got a buzz cut (to his curly hair), so people started calling him Ned Sped Scrotumhead.
On the contrary, a thousand different sentiments, excited by the same object, are all right: Because no sentiment represents what is really in the object. It only marks a certain conformity or relation between the object and the organs or faculties of the mind; and if that conformity did not really exist, the sentiment could never possibly have being. Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty. One person may even perceive deformity, where another is sensible of beauty; and every individual ought to acquiesce in his own sentiment, without pretending to regulate those of others. To seek in the real beauty, or real deformity, is as fruitless an enquiry, as to pretend to ascertain the real sweet or real bitter....
But though this axiom, by passing into a proverb, seems to have attained the sanction of common sense; there is certainly a species of common sense which opposes it, at least serves to modify and restrain it. Whoever would assert an equality of genius and elegance between OGILBY and MILTON, or BUNYAN and ADDISON, would be thought to defend no less an extravagance, than if he had maintained a mole-hill to be as high as TENERIFFE, or a pond as extensive as the ocean. Though there may be found persons, who give the preference to the former authors; no one pays attention to such a taste; and we pronounce without scruple the sentiment of these pretended critics to be absurd and ridiculous.
In that case, since you don't use the term, it would be appropriate for you to say "sure we would, honeybuns", since that actually conveys that you wouldn't.
But, I am relieved to see that my number one pick, Julia Roberts, is on so many lists. I'm sure she is a nice person, etc, but why do we all pretend she is beautiful? She has a horse-mouth. I'm not trying to bash her. Really, I'm not.
And am I the only one who thought Janet was hotter than Chrissy on "Three's Company?"
More currently, Paris's sidekick (that Richie kid) is not hot, and Paris is . . . weird. Cute poses, and a kinda cute scrunchy face, but not beautiful. She does make a good example of how not all wealthy people deserve their money.
For guys - I've never been able to tell. I can guess, and I suppose I can spot hideous, but I don't feel anything.
A lotta people dislike Keanu Reaves, but I like him.
Hey Tripp, we'd succeeded in closing the thread there. In fact, since nothing was happening here all day, I had thought that maybe Wolfson's 100 had finished off the site completely. Or maybe everyone's, you know, spending Saturday away from a computer.
I presume that includes moi? (I can't really say anything about CT, since I mostly don't read it, and when I do, I don't read the comments. How many leftish academic angels can tapdance on a data point? Answer:{snore} Note that this does not include the female bloggers over there, who are all very nice, if infrequent.)
Most annoying commenter at Unfogged! Ash!
Yay, I win a prize! I've worked so hard for this, too.
With your last five you might be giving ash a run for his money, ogged.
Nah.
Matt Weiner:
Hey, Ash is pretty funny.
Thank you.
Yikes; that was sort of rough.
Depends on what you tend to classify as 'rough'. Since I have a tougue like a razor and a hide like a rhino (no, not making that up, someone said this about me, while I was in the middle of verbally beating the shit out of him), my response can be summarized as follows:
'Huh.'
Only because I have fears about the same being said about me.
L'audace. Toujours l'audace. It's all just dots on phospher.
Ogged, behind the frat room tone, this is insecurity-blog. Picking on commentators can be dangerous.
Enh. I thought that was more of that repressed middle/upper-class hostility kind of thing. Anyways, I must point out that when mina says: 'this blog is getting to be an uncomfortably misogynistic place, lately.' You've got a bit more of a problem than somebody coming after you. ('sides, 's better if I get picked on than having a woman picked on, what with being made for that sort of thing.)
Relax, even ash isn't so bad, though those bracketed sign-offs do make me want to wring his neck.
I've been using lower case for my name since, eh 1982 (Yes! I have connected at 180 baud!), because it's less likely to generate errors. The kicker line was added in 1985 (ala Bloom County/Doonesbury counterpunchline). Quotes added in '87ish, I think (to clarify that it was possibly a sotto voce comment, or possibly quoting someone else, but meant to be spoken aloud). Parentheses added laterish, then rapidly became brackets around 1992 (since people started copying the kicker line). As a wild guess I've probably written 50,000-100,000 posts with the brackets. It's a specific signature and serves the purpose of identification. If it hasn't got the signature and the brackets it is not me, and if it does, it IS me, regardless of whatever 'Name:' field is attached to the post, regardless of the medium used. Full stop.
ash
['This post not previewed at 06:18 CST, 12:18 UT.']
If it hasn't got the signature and the brackets it is not me, and if it does, it IS me, regardless of whatever 'Name:' field is attached to the post, regardless of the medium used. Full stop.
Tsk. I knew somebody would try that. I am referring to whether I posted an item. That is, if it doesn't have the name and the brackets, *I* didn't post it. I might be spoofed, but it's hard to spoof me for long.
It's really HaRD to SiMULATE mY BRAND of _cranky_ *mania*.
Also Julia Roberts.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:00 PM
I agree with Ogged and disagree with Wolfson.
I have never found Patricia Arquette plausible as the "sexy woman" of any movie she's in -- maybe it's just those damn super-short hipster bangs. I hate super-short bangs.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:05 PM
Britney Spears
The whole Baywatch cast WITH THE EXCEPTION of Erika Eleniak
Jennifer Lopez
Colin McFerrel
Hugh Grant
This should get me a few lawyers phone calls
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:06 PM
Patricia Arquette
Agreed! In fact, WTF?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:06 PM
Trinity
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:18 PM
Julia Roberts, Adam, if she were to meet you, would probably bite your head off. She could do it. The only reason I can conceive of for her having such a huge jaw is that she, like many snakes, consumes her prey whole.
Agreed with Michael, though.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:22 PM
Paris Hilton!!!
Posted by spasm | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:25 PM
Is Paris Hilton really "supposed" to be attractive, though? I thought that she was supposed to be just a grotesque walking piece of shit, as though the bare reality of Capital itself had a TV show. "A porn video -- starring... MONEY!"
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:27 PM
Jack Nicholson. Not just because he's a hideously preserved mummy at this point, but even when he was young, he wasn't attractive.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:31 PM
Ashton Kutcher. boney farm hick. Where does he gets off ruining all my memories of the 80s by running around with Demi Moore?
Posted by diddy | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:31 PM
Renee Zellweger
Posted by mikez | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:32 PM
I think it's pretty strange that her sister has the same name as her grandfather.
If it weren't for her weird cheeks, ridiculous lips, inability to hold her head upright, and general skankiness, Paris would be pretty attractive.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:33 PM
With Mikez's comment, the list is now effectively complete. And I am now effectively going to get away from my damn computer.
For at least ten minutes.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:35 PM
I find most of the woman that are presented as "attractive" to be, in fact, rather attractive. (Including Patricia Arquette.) The only glaring, terrible exceptions I can think of, besides Sarah Jessica Parker, are:
Minnie Driver
Amanda Peet
Sarah Michelle Gellar (nowadays; she got wicked angular in her 20s)
Renée Zellweger
Mena Suvari, most of the time
I'm not a good judge with guys, so I'll just say that, until I saw Kevin Costner named "Sexiest Man Alive" by People, it literally never occurred to me that he was good looking. Same with (I think) Nick Nolte.
Posted by Ted Barlow | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:35 PM
Maybe THAT was why he was edited out of "The Big Sleep"
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:38 PM
Mena Suvari? Say it ain't so, Ted?
How about Christina Aguilera?
Posted by praktike | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:41 PM
Lets make that"The Big Chill" shall we!
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:41 PM
Total disagreement on Minnie Driver.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:42 PM
Christina Aguilera, for me, comes under the heading of "Sexy but not attractive." I' ve a notion this might apply to porn models too.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:44 PM
this blog is getting to be an uncomfortably misogynistic place, lately.
Posted by mina | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:56 PM
Christina Aguilera, to me, is a lovely young woman frequently buried below a thick layer of oil, Man-Tan, fright wigs, and/or atrocious outfits.
Posted by Ted Barlow | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:57 PM
Disagree on Minnie Driver.
Julia Roberts falls into that strange category of women whose still photos look bad but whose moving image is generally pretty good. That _Girl with Pearl Earing/Lost in Translation girl is much the same. Of course you get people who run the other way as well --- great in stills, lousy in motion.
My personal choice would be Brittany Murphy. My god, just what does this junkie-looking woman have on Hollywood producers that she keeps getting roles?
Also what's the deal with Ashley Simpson? Given that she has no vocal talent and no dance talent, I assume she is supposed to be attractive, but does anyone actually claim this? The only reason she's not on my list with Brittany Murphy is that I know of no media blitz that's actually trying to pretend she's worth looking at.
Posted by Maynard Handley | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:59 PM
If it weren't for her weird cheeks, ridiculous lips, inability to hold her head upright, and general skankiness, Paris would be pretty attractive.
But she'd still be a lousy lay.
Posted by girl27 | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:00 PM
For me, the list would be:
1) Gwyneth Paltrow
2) Julia Roberts
3) Gwyneth Paltrow
4) Gwyneth Paltrow
5) Charlize Theron
For my wife, it is:
1) Brad Pitt
2) Russell Crowe
Posted by pjs | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:09 PM
I'm a bit leery of the SJP bashing--Fametracker says of her, "Has built a career in Hollywood as a leading lady despite not being conventionally attractive"--and look! here we are talking about how unattractive she is!
I'm also a bit uncomfortable with this because the first time I had the "SJP is not all that" reaction, it occurred to me that an ex of mine, who I still think is tremendously beautiful, looks kind of like her with completely different coloring.
(Note also the followup from FT: "If by 'not conventionally attractive' you mean 'Lee Harvey Schnozzwald,' then, yes, she's not conventionally attractive. She's still a size 0, though.)
(Also, I hope the ex isn't lurking or worse yet commenting pseudonymously. Or maybe I don't. Hi!)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:09 PM
Pjs, you just ain't right.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:10 PM
But she'd still be a lousy lay.
Speculation, Moorean belief or prooven fact?
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:10 PM
Lindsay Lohan.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:12 PM
Pjs's just ain't right either.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:12 PM
More than misogynistic, I think it's homophobic -- none of us guys want to sit around talking about whether men are or are not attractive. It's not as much of a problem, culturally, for women to have strong opinions on other women, so we fall into these ruts.
Or maybe it's both misogynistic and homophobic. And racist! We're talking about a whole lot of white women, here. In fact, the most racial diversity I've noticed is a shift from white to white trash (i.e. Christina Aguilera).
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:14 PM
29 should have read "Pjs's wife just ain't right either". Damnit.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:19 PM
Penelope Cruz.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:23 PM
"More than misogynistic, I think it's homophobic"
I can't speak for others, but for myself I frequently can't tell movie men apart. It's a real problem (and one of the reasons I don't watch many movies) in that many of them look the same to me. Of course there are those who, for whatever reason, stand out --- Tom Cruise, Tommy Lee Jones, Jeff Goldblum. But I don't know if I could pick Colin Farrell out of a lineup. I think I know what Nick Nolte looks like, but Kevin Costner is kinda vague --- I might well have him confused with Mel Gibson.
As for the supposed racism thing, well we're dealing with the hand the US media gives us. Personally I think many East Asian women are quite lovely, but we don't have many of them appearing in US media,, and so evenn if I knew names (which I don't) those names wouldn't mean much to other people. It's not a racist thing --- heck most of us, I'm sure, would look on in bafflement when presented with a list of supposedly hot European women, a list that grows ever more obscure as one moves from the UK to France/Italy to Germany to Holland and the Nordics to the Poland/Hungary area to Ukraine and Romania.
Posted by Maynard Handley | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:29 PM
Courtney Cox.
(...I love you...you're so hot...on that show...)
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:34 PM
#33 ("Personally I think many East Asian women are quite lovely")
oh, this is getting so very fd up.
Posted by mina | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:37 PM
this blog is getting to be an uncomfortably misogynistic place, lately.
You only think that because you're just a girl.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:37 PM
Does guys talking about attractive women automatically make for misogyny? Or is there a larger trend that I'm too blinkered to see?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:43 PM
Well, I'm not homophobic so I'm going to jump on the:
Paris Hilton
Julia Roberts
Ashley Simpson
Christina Agulera
bandwagon and raise you:
chick-who-ran-over-20-people-in-her-SUV-and-now-has-her-own-realityTV-show
And as for men:
50 Cent
Leonard DiCaprio
Sean Connery (i just don't get it--even his younger days; I've always found Brosnan to be a MUCH more attractive Bond--but "attractive" doesn't always mean "better!")
Posted by Karyn | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:45 PM
Well, Ben, we're currently talking about how unattractive women are, and the women in question are all way out of our league.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:47 PM
Who did that? (I think it's "Ashlee", too.)
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:47 PM
Courtney Love.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:47 PM
Ben, was that re 39 or 38? If 38, Lizzie Grubman. I don't know that she was supposed to be attractive, more "excessively tan."
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:48 PM
The SUV thing? I'm not sure of her name but she's def. got a reality show on MTV (caught a commercial for it last night and me and my roommate couldn't get over how...just...bleH) called PowerGirls or something like that. I remember it a while back, 2002 I think--she just drove over people and then like 3 days later, issued an apology only after she was facing legal action
Posted by Karyn | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:50 PM
#37: i think the misogynistic bit was sort of b/c this post is *not* men talking about attractive women, but rather, men talking about women they found unattractive, giving reasons like she's a "grotesque walking piece of shit" and the like.
but what the hell, i'll join. here's my list:
- jessica simpson: wtf?
- colin farrell
- brad pitt
- russell crowe
- joseph fiennes
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:51 PM
oh, sorry. #44 was me
Posted by mina | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:52 PM
mina -- how do you feel about John Cusack?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:53 PM
Agree Russell Crowe and Colin Farrell (and Simpson, but doesn't that go without saying?). Further nominate Sandra Bullock.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:53 PM
This is interesting. I think that most of the women listed so far (with the exception of SJP, who I've never found attractive) would nonetheless be the most attractive person in, say, your office. Shrug. The ones I don't get:
Justin Timberlake (looks like a Mon-chee-chee)
Tori Spelling
Pamela Anderson
Melanie Griffith
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:54 PM
Further nominate Sandra Bullock.
Second.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:54 PM
Molly Ringwald.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:55 PM
It was re 38. Re 39: I'm tempted to say, "so?".
44: The last thread was men talking about attractive women, and a trend was implied. I think Adam's flights of fancy regarding Paris Hilton don't really constitute misogyny. Baa might should pop in here to ask him what he's got against capital per se, though.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:56 PM
#46
joe: it's true. i love john cusack (although i wouldn't put him on my celebrity 5). specifically, the underage "say anything" jc, in the clash t-shirt.
Posted by mina | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:57 PM
SJP is one of those women who women think are more attractive than men do.
Posted by joe o | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:58 PM
The most attractive woman in the office I theoretically work in, but for the past few weeks have not been working in, is pretty fucking attractive.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:59 PM
Pretty, fucking, and attractive? Someone is happy.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:00 PM
Justin Timberlake (looks like a Mon-chee-chee)
I do all right, but I certainly wouldn't mind looking like this.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:01 PM
I wish I could might should pop in from time to time, ben.
My friend says Jennifer Garner is too mannish.
I say Julia Roberts, Jennifer Aniston, and most playboy centerfolds. Don't know why.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:04 PM
specifically, the underage "say anything" jc, in the clash t-shirt.
Sometimes, I think we are all children of Lloyd Dobler.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:08 PM
Jennifer Aniston
She's got to be #1 with re to hype/actual attractiveness.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:12 PM
That's certainly the best picture I've seen of him, Joe. The mental image I have is of him standing beside Janet Jackson's exposed nipple, looking for all the world like he was retarded.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:14 PM
Well, that's probably the image he'll be most associated with, so.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:16 PM
Another vote for Jessica Simpson. The most boring sort of bleach-blonde room temperature IQ airhead I can think of. Her celebrity escapes me.
Posted by Brian | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:17 PM
"The requested page could not be found.
Page not found - /mt-static/images/sjp.jpg"
I might observe that since beauty is subjective, this entire comment thread is pointless, but it seems overly obvious, so, you know, I won't.
Posted by Gary Farber | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:18 PM
I don't know that subjectivity makes it pointless. We're not looking for definitive answers, after all.
Justin Timberlake reminds me of an unpopular boy in my grade school whose real name was Michael, but, for some reason, people took to calling Ned. Then he got a buzz cut (to his curly hair), so people started calling him Ned Sped Scrotumhead.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:24 PM
On the contrary, a thousand different sentiments, excited by the same object, are all right: Because no sentiment represents what is really in the object. It only marks a certain conformity or relation between the object and the organs or faculties of the mind; and if that conformity did not really exist, the sentiment could never possibly have being. Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty. One person may even perceive deformity, where another is sensible of beauty; and every individual ought to acquiesce in his own sentiment, without pretending to regulate those of others. To seek in the real beauty, or real deformity, is as fruitless an enquiry, as to pretend to ascertain the real sweet or real bitter....
But though this axiom, by passing into a proverb, seems to have attained the sanction of common sense; there is certainly a species of common sense which opposes it, at least serves to modify and restrain it. Whoever would assert an equality of genius and elegance between OGILBY and MILTON, or BUNYAN and ADDISON, would be thought to defend no less an extravagance, than if he had maintained a mole-hill to be as high as TENERIFFE, or a pond as extensive as the ocean. Though there may be found persons, who give the preference to the former authors; no one pays attention to such a taste; and we pronounce without scruple the sentiment of these pretended critics to be absurd and ridiculous.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:25 PM
I was speaking somewhat in psychoanalytic terms with my comments about Paris Hilton -- she is the "excremental remainder" of the system of celebrity.
I think there are some forms of feminism, at least, that would not find pot-shots at Paris Hilton to be misogynistic.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:25 PM
Your speech continues to be Greek to me, but whatevs.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:26 PM
67, on the heels of 65, is just fun knee.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:29 PM
this entire comment thread is pointless
Hardly. Who a person finds attractive and unattractive is pretty revealing about that person.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:30 PM
What's so hard to follow about 65?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:30 PM
Ask 66.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:32 PM
Touché
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:34 PM
So would you say we're just about done here?
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:52 PM
Celebrity animals that aren't as cute as advertised!
The Taco Bell chihuahua.
(Holy shit, I know how to spell "chihuahua.")
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:54 PM
Bloggers who are far better looking than you would guess!
??
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:55 PM
Best blog with the worst comments!
Washington Monthly?
Crooked Timber?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:56 PM
Most annoying commenter at Unfogged!
Ash!
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:57 PM
Any other questions, Adam?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:57 PM
With your last five you might be giving ash a run for his money, ogged.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:58 PM
Nuh uh.
-ogged
[sez u]
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:59 PM
Commenters count?
Ben Wolfson!
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:00 PM
Hey, Ash is pretty funny.
And I think this thread ought to be retitled "Ain't supposed to die a natural death."
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:01 PM
Damn y'all comment fast.
Comments:
Awesome, Ash beat me.
And I'm voting for Crooked Timber.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:02 PM
Yikes; that was sort of rough.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:05 PM
I nominate myself for far better looking than you'd guess, even though I know you all would guess I am, as they say, hott.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:06 PM
I guess I'd better revise this, then.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:08 PM
Only because I have fears about the same being said about me.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:09 PM
Relax, even ash isn't so bad, though those bracketed sign-offs do make me want to wring his neck.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:11 PM
Re 85
Sure they do, honeybuns. Don't take Ash's crown away from him too fast.
86
Ogged, behind the frat room tone, this is insecurity-blog. Picking on commentators can be dangerous.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:12 PM
Just natural new-kid blahblah, on my end. Not even worth mentioning, except to point out why the above struck me as a tad harsh.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:15 PM
Michael, you might want to re-read 85, with the knowledge that "hott" really is a term in use. I think you mean "sure we would"?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:16 PM
Nuh-uh, no "we." *I* do not use the term "hott."
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:19 PM
In that case, since you don't use the term, it would be appropriate for you to say "sure we would, honeybuns", since that actually conveys that you wouldn't.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:20 PM
I think you should wonder whether you want me to use "we."
From your link:
II. One who you would:
a. lick
b. suck/ blow
c. nibble
d. flirt with
e. have sexual relations with *Fuck especially*
f. want to get with
III. One who makes you:
f. fantasize
h. (if guy) hard
i. masturbate
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:20 PM
But I meant merely to patronizingly indulge you in your fantasies, not outright discredit them.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:22 PM
Hey, I'm not saying I'd reciprocate.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:23 PM
But not ruling it out, either, I see.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:24 PM
Is there any Ogged Slashfic? Because I sense that there will be soon.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:30 PM
I meant "Unfogged Slashfic," naturally.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:31 PM
I think unf/ogged slash would involve ogged waiting around forever for unf to come.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:34 PM
100 made this thread worth reading. It also may cause nightmares in small children.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 3:50 PM
Yes, with comment #100, we can officially declare this thread over.
I'm going to turn my back now for a few minutes, so feel free to post forty more comments, as expected.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 4:15 PM
Aw, I'm late to the thread I suggested. Bummer.
But, I am relieved to see that my number one pick, Julia Roberts, is on so many lists. I'm sure she is a nice person, etc, but why do we all pretend she is beautiful? She has a horse-mouth. I'm not trying to bash her. Really, I'm not.
And am I the only one who thought Janet was hotter than Chrissy on "Three's Company?"
More currently, Paris's sidekick (that Richie kid) is not hot, and Paris is . . . weird. Cute poses, and a kinda cute scrunchy face, but not beautiful. She does make a good example of how not all wealthy people deserve their money.
For guys - I've never been able to tell. I can guess, and I suppose I can spot hideous, but I don't feel anything.
A lotta people dislike Keanu Reaves, but I like him.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-12-05 1:46 PM
Hey Tripp, we'd succeeded in closing the thread there. In fact, since nothing was happening here all day, I had thought that maybe Wolfson's 100 had finished off the site completely. Or maybe everyone's, you know, spending Saturday away from a computer.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-12-05 2:36 PM
Unfogged is dead; netcraft confirms it. 101 through 105 are just mindless twitchings.
(Matt, where is this "away from a computer" of which you speak?)
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-12-05 4:56 PM
if only slashdot were dead... what?
Posted by Tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 03-12-05 5:08 PM
slashdot jokes are dead; witcraft confirms it.
Posted by Tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 03-12-05 5:38 PM
Best blog with the worst comments!
Washington Monthly?
Crooked Timber?
I presume that includes moi? (I can't really say anything about CT, since I mostly don't read it, and when I do, I don't read the comments. How many leftish academic angels can tapdance on a data point? Answer:{snore} Note that this does not include the female bloggers over there, who are all very nice, if infrequent.)
Most annoying commenter at Unfogged! Ash!
Yay, I win a prize! I've worked so hard for this, too.
With your last five you might be giving ash a run for his money, ogged.
Nah.
Matt Weiner:
Hey, Ash is pretty funny.
Thank you.
Yikes; that was sort of rough.
Depends on what you tend to classify as 'rough'. Since I have a tougue like a razor and a hide like a rhino (no, not making that up, someone said this about me, while I was in the middle of verbally beating the shit out of him), my response can be summarized as follows:
'Huh.'
Only because I have fears about the same being said about me.
L'audace. Toujours l'audace. It's all just dots on phospher.
Ogged, behind the frat room tone, this is insecurity-blog. Picking on commentators can be dangerous.
Enh. I thought that was more of that repressed middle/upper-class hostility kind of thing. Anyways, I must point out that when mina says: 'this blog is getting to be an uncomfortably misogynistic place, lately.' You've got a bit more of a problem than somebody coming after you. ('sides, 's better if I get picked on than having a woman picked on, what with being made for that sort of thing.)
Relax, even ash isn't so bad, though those bracketed sign-offs do make me want to wring his neck.
I've been using lower case for my name since, eh 1982 (Yes! I have connected at 180 baud!), because it's less likely to generate errors. The kicker line was added in 1985 (ala Bloom County/Doonesbury counterpunchline). Quotes added in '87ish, I think (to clarify that it was possibly a sotto voce comment, or possibly quoting someone else, but meant to be spoken aloud). Parentheses added laterish, then rapidly became brackets around 1992 (since people started copying the kicker line). As a wild guess I've probably written 50,000-100,000 posts with the brackets. It's a specific signature and serves the purpose of identification. If it hasn't got the signature and the brackets it is not me, and if it does, it IS me, regardless of whatever 'Name:' field is attached to the post, regardless of the medium used. Full stop.
ash
['This post not previewed at 06:18 CST, 12:18 UT.']
Posted by ash | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 5:19 AM
If it hasn't got the signature and the brackets it is not me, and if it does, it IS me, regardless of whatever 'Name:' field is attached to the post, regardless of the medium used. Full stop.
You sure about that?
ash
['ya shouldn't be.']
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 11:21 AM
Style will out!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 11:23 AM
You sure about that?
Tsk. I knew somebody would try that. I am referring to whether I posted an item. That is, if it doesn't have the name and the brackets, *I* didn't post it. I might be spoofed, but it's hard to spoof me for long.
It's really HaRD to SiMULATE mY BRAND of _cranky_ *mania*.
ash
['
ONE MORE MOUTH TO FEED IS ONE MORE MOUTH TO FEED
one more mouth to feed is one more mouth to feed
']
Posted by ash | Link to this comment | 03-15-05 7:15 AM