OK, I'm in. But I need a clarification - if we're playing "AOTL" (as of this living), does the universe include all now-dead stars who are magically reconstituted to be somewhere between 18-25.
You have a unique taste. Honestly, I wouldn't have listed any of them off the top of my head, although in retrospect I'll admit to liking 3) and 4).
I am just going to come out and say that I have a crush on Lacey Chabert. I wouldn't fame-five her because I plan on asking her out someday, and that conflicts with the condition of no contact "even in the most remote social situation."
Also, I know she isn't famous, but there is this incredibly beautiful receptionist at a massage parlor near where I live. I pass by almost everyday and the storefront is ... well, it's her basically, and she definitely brings in customers. I should probably take her picture.
1. Myrna Loy. Played "America's Favorite Wife" roles, generally, but was much closer to a Rosalind Russell character in real life. When she was young, she was unconscionably sexy; when she got older she was merely unconscionably beautiful. Bonus points – a serious Democrat.
2. Angelina Jolie. Only she and a young Sophia Loren have that caricatured fullness of feminine feature that defines "gorgeous." And Jolie seems like she could teach a man things.
3. Jodie Foster. Pretty and absurdly talented. I can't think of any vector (beauty, intelligence, etc.) along which she isn't well out of my league.
4. Catherine Bell (the actress from JAG). I haven't quite killed the Persian fetish yet.
5. Claire Forlani - can a girl have "puppy-dog" eyes?
(Missed the cut: Thandie Newton. I'm a little creeped out by this , b/c I first developed a crush on her when she was in the movie Flirting. Maybe we'd just hold hands.)
Jennifer Jason Leigh. Don't ask, because even I don't know why, but I'm totally hot for that woman.
Oh my god, no kidding. Exempting JJL, who exists on some altogether different level, and accepting SCMT's regeneration at 18-25, the list goes, in no particular order:
Jolie vs. Monica Bellucci: Jolie hands down. Jolie might break a little piece of you off to take as a rememberance. That sort of danger has to be worth something.
You have a crush on Rudi Bakhtiar too, Tim? Well, fuck, I do now. Thanks. On your advice, I'm trying to get over the fetish, remember?
I have to say, Ogged, you surprised me. Nice talent there. I also agree with 3 and 4. I also agree with the discussion to this point on Angelina Jolie.
Apo: quite solid. I might go Kinski, Hepburn, Cuthbert, Rosselini, but this is a subjective question.
And then, of course, there's JJL...but why does she haunt us all so? I have never understood if it is was a single role of hers or what...but man.
Goose's famefuckingfive:
1. Josie Maran (Van Helsing, Aviator)
2. Charlize Theron
3. Brooke Burns (Baywatch, Dog Eat Dog)
4. Jennifer Garner
5. Uma Thurman
Honorable Mention: Scarlett Johansson and Sandra Bullock
One of the things I found baffling about Ghost World was that the male characters in it were supposed to find Scarlett Johansson's character more attractive than Thora Birch's, which is, let's face it, ridiculous.
sadly, that was off the top of my head. Bullock, Thurman, and Scarlett are long termers for me, but the others make up the five/seven I would put on my list right this minute.
If I could use that part of my brain for academic production, I'd have an endowed chair at Harvard by now.
If y'all want to see a guy set his crotch on fire, and then a band play a good song, you should watch this. Also, the guy who lights his crotch on fire sticks a screwdriver up his nose.
If Shania Twain didn't perform crap music, irritate the shit out of me, and besides that fuck some guy every night who's uglier than, er, (let's see...who's not here...um...ummmm)...
can someone please help me with the JJL thing though? I don't get it. I mean, er, I'd like to get it...but I really don't get why.
kinda like the plain jane chick from Carnivale too. (of course, her PJ-ness is part of the role...as it was for Scarlett in that movie mentioned above...)
The younger-than-me fff list, not in any particular order:
1. Tim Olyphant
2.Jude Law
3.Ewan McGregor
4. Orlando Bloom
5. Colin Ferrell, since everybody needs one dangerous entry on their list. (But soooo not in the Alexander role. And if they really make that Miami Vice movie, he's outta here.)
A female friend of mine once hypothesized that every woman was either a Brad Pitt woman or a John Cusack woman. Sounds a little binary to me, but what do I know about women?
What, is this a test to see if I know whereof I speak? Springfield, MO. Greene County. Home of Bass Pro (ya gotta say it as all one word) and the Springfield-Branson Regional Airport (Branson, as in "would the last bad entertainers out of Nashville and Las Vegas please turn out the lights?"). Buckle of the Bible Belt.
We went to Parkview, BTW. Given its name for the brilliant reason that it sits next to a park.
...hmm, possibly. Or at least that's what the Branson CoC would like to project, Ben.
Joe, I think it's probably a tie between the Asian and Yakov Smirnoff. But the place is full of has-beens and progeny. I guess Utah ran out of room for all those Osmonds.
Kinski, Hepburn, and Rossellini have been on it since I was about 13 years old.
This morning, I tried to remember who the rest of my list would have been at 13. I'm pretty sure the other two would have been Debbie Harry and Tawny Kitaen. I think DH is a respectable pick that has held up well over the years, but Tawny Kitaen, well, that's just funny now. On any given day, though, TK might have been displaced by Catherine deNeuve.
The first time I saw Thandie Newton was in Gridlock'd with Tupac Shakur and Tim Roth. If you haven't seen it, the soundtrack alone makes it worth your time.
I think it's Connie Chung's voice, so smooth and even. I don't know if it's that or something else about her that gives her a bit of the librarian/bad girl vibe.
Tripp, did that Pets.com puppet thing do anything for you?
I'm not sure, do you have a link?
ogged,
Now that I am safely home I have followed your links and every pick is great.
From my picks it occurs to me that one's "archetype beauty" may be formed at a certain age, (15-20?) and then carries over from there? Certainly my list is loaded with women that were a little bit before my time.
You should do an entry on people that are supposed to be attractive but aren't. I know who I'd put on that list.
Too funny! I thought you were referring to my Chelsea Clinton pick!
I really do find her attractive. Her Mom, too. I've noticed certain looks that I like that other people don't. An odd thing is I saw some old photos of some relatives in the late 1800s and some of that look was there.
Either preferences are inherited or I'm hot for my great great grandma.
Wait a second here. How are people thinking of their lists? The ones I picked are all beautiful, yes, but so are lots of women.
Beart is all proud and smart in that movie, and she learned to play the violin for the part of the violinist, so I'm impressed, and in love.
Federica Fontana, well, ok, I don't know anything about her.
Turlington. She's all sweet and cares about animals and does yoga and preaches against smoking. She'd probably hate my carnivorous ass, and I'd probably get tired of her being sweet, but I'm charmed anyway.
Newton. I don't know much about her, but she's got that whole half-brit, half-African princess thing going, and I just happen to have been thinking lately that the woman for me will turn out to be half-brit, half-Spanish (of moorish descent, naturally), and that's pretty close, no?
Lowell. Her Jamie Ross character is just about my ideal woman.
I think actually Diana Rigg counts twice for me. I fell in love with her the first time I saw Casino Royale as a kid, and then in London I saw her on stage in Heartbreak House with Rex Harrison. She was 25 years older and I was smitten again. There's dislocation for you.
She's smart, and principled, and tough, and she has just the right touch for a woman who knows that every man wants her: playful, but appropriately aloof and self-contained.
"Tough," "aloof," and "self-contained," spell high-maintainance to me. That said, she would have made my extended list b/c, along with all that you said, she (the character) also had a winsome earnestness.
I don't think so. You're talking about her actions; I'm talking about the way her eyes widened and her voice became just-shy-of-plaintive. You think she's good; I think she remains a bit surprised that the world isn't good.
Joe in 107: I take the point, but it was more in response to ogged's protestations in 98. How else, really, can you base an answer to this question than on looks (or maybe scuttlebutt about bedroom behavior)?
You can't even really get out of this by construing the question as being about celebrity personae instead of celebrities (cue someone asking what the difference is in 5...), since when ogged says wossname as the ADA (or I say Thora Birch as Enid), we're not even talking about the personae these people cultivate in real life.
Basically ogged should never have brought up the actual reasons he made his list as he did, since highlighting those brings the fantastical nature of the whole endeavor way out in front, where it doesn't belong.
I think she remains a bit surprised that the world isn't good.
Are you forgetting her "I believe in monsters and things that go bump in the night, Jack," moment? When she recounts the awful client she had to defend who got off and went on to kill again? She knows all about the badness of the world.
Ben, the fantastical nature of the endeavor is what makes it fun. It's an exercise in imagination; otherwise we're just talking about symmetrical faces with big eyes.
Joe, I'm all in favor of exercises in imagination and fantasy and whatnot. But I think that (at least) two things can happen to make such things ridiculous. One is explicitly stating "hey let's be imaginative! Everyone imagine something" and generally intruding the fact that it's a fantasy into the proceedings—you need some negative capability. The other is sort of the flip side, when you forget that what you're doing is basically entirely fantasized. It's one thing to say that you're hot so-and-so is one thing; to go on and say "because she's smart and does good work and beautiful and I know if we met we would totally hit it off", well, it can seem pretty silly.
Alas, no. I'll chalk it up to an effect of automatic spell correction, because I know I've typed that word a thousand times. I suppose I mispronounce it as well, because I spelled it the way I say it.
And now I'm going to go ahead and pick on this:
It's one thing to say that you're hot so-and-so is one thing;
Gawd, Ben. Fantasies can totally include "because we would, like, totally hit it off." Linda Fiorentino's delivery of the line "I hate the living" is totally one of the things that feeds into my fantasy. We understand each other!
3. Lauren Graham (natch), though if I ever met her, I'm certain that I'd be so freaked out that I'd get tongue-tied, and yes, that's a hindrance in my plans for girl-on-girl action.
4. Angelina Jolie, though on some level she scares the bejeebus out of me.
5. Mary-Louise Parker. You are a fool, Billy Crudup! A FOOL!
Matt, I'm not denying that fantasies can, and often do, contain such scenarios. I'm just saying that I think that at that point (in a public forum, anyway) the fantastical nature becomes so foregrounded that it's hard to maintain.
Really, Ben, I don't think it's any more foregrounded and thus difficult to maintain there than it is when we say "I'd hit that!" In either case, we aren't going to get the chance. I just think you're not an experienced enough fantasist.
See also FT on Owen Wilson--the last liability is relevant. (But the last asset? What were they thinking?)
It's pretty confusing, and totally unexpected, that there's a guy calling himself GaijinBiker, and a different guy calling himself Big Ben, whose blog is called Gaijin Bikers. Can you two group blog, or something?
In any case, that list could well be my "B" team; I'm on board with every one. My only problem with Angelina Jolie, part of whose appeal is her almost extra-terrestrial exotic freakiness, is that she's from Chicago.
And has anyone written an examination of why Fiorentino's role in The Last Seduction holds a special place in every man's heart?
You never know what the odds of running into a list member actually are.
This meme went around my friends/girlfriend at the time/her friends some years ago, not long after Rushmore came out. A long-standing English Rose thingy was triggered by Ms. Cross, so I had Olivia Williams on my list (Sixth Sense, etc).
Some time before I was married last year, I was in a friend's member club/bar in London when she walked in the room. I called out (half lit up) "hey, miss cross". (I know, believe me). Rather than sneer, she came to the table to chat. Never has my bravado been called out so convincingly, after a few minutes of chat I just looked at her, out of words, and blushed.
I told my now-wife about this, reassuring her about my lack of skills even if I wanted to try to use them, until we went away to a rural retreat in a seaside pub and found out that it was a local favorite of Williams' family.
Oh yeah, Olivia Williams is very attractive. And the fact that she came over to chat is great. My only (nearly) similar experience is being in a bar when Sandra Bullock walked in, just after Speed. I didn't talk to her, but lots of guys did, and she was unfailingly sweet.
Linda Fiorentino for her being in her mid 40's i still love that women and i love the way she is if i could just talk to her i think would really love her and love the way she really is and i would love to really meet her even dough she dont know me but she could get to know me
"Doesn't speak English" used to be something you cared about.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 6:39 PM
I'm having trouble thinking of a single funny, interesting or risqué things I've heard said in a locker room
Posted by Walter Sobchak | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 7:01 PM
At Dooce's site, the commenters seemed to intuitively understand that they were to share their own lists; not nitpick the fucking post, fuckers.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 7:19 PM
After Maggie Cheung and Thora Birch (as Enid), I'm unsure how to continue. Does Jena Malone still look 13? I liked her in Donnie Darko.
Also, I think you want a comma and not a semicolon.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 7:24 PM
Well, I'm surprised, Ogged. They're all women.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 7:29 PM
My list would definatly include Shannon Sossamon
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 7:32 PM
OK, I'm in. But I need a clarification - if we're playing "AOTL" (as of this living), does the universe include all now-dead stars who are magically reconstituted to be somewhere between 18-25.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 7:34 PM
Do all the as-of-ing you want.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 7:36 PM
You have a unique taste. Honestly, I wouldn't have listed any of them off the top of my head, although in retrospect I'll admit to liking 3) and 4).
I am just going to come out and say that I have a crush on Lacey Chabert. I wouldn't fame-five her because I plan on asking her out someday, and that conflicts with the condition of no contact "even in the most remote social situation."
Also, I know she isn't famous, but there is this incredibly beautiful receptionist at a massage parlor near where I live. I pass by almost everyday and the storefront is ... well, it's her basically, and she definitely brings in customers. I should probably take her picture.
Posted by Yuri Guri | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 7:42 PM
I disapprove of this message.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:02 PM
Done.
1. Myrna Loy. Played "America's Favorite Wife" roles, generally, but was much closer to a Rosalind Russell character in real life. When she was young, she was unconscionably sexy; when she got older she was merely unconscionably beautiful. Bonus points – a serious Democrat.
2. Angelina Jolie. Only she and a young Sophia Loren have that caricatured fullness of feminine feature that defines "gorgeous." And Jolie seems like she could teach a man things.
3. Jodie Foster. Pretty and absurdly talented. I can't think of any vector (beauty, intelligence, etc.) along which she isn't well out of my league.
4. Catherine Bell (the actress from JAG). I haven't quite killed the Persian fetish yet.
5. Claire Forlani - can a girl have "puppy-dog" eyes?
(Missed the cut: Thandie Newton. I'm a little creeped out by this , b/c I first developed a crush on her when she was in the movie Flirting. Maybe we'd just hold hands.)
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:03 PM
I thought you might, Labs. It's ok, no one will make fun of you if you put Corey Feldman on your list.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:05 PM
At Dooce's site, the commenters seemed to intuitively understand that they were to share their own lists; not nitpick the fucking post, fuckers.
Okley dokley doo:
1) Shannon Elizabeth
2) Natalie Portman*
3) Tricia Helfer (new addition!)
4) Ashley Judd / Charlize Theron - long story, but trust me, I can't list them separately
5) Mila Kunis
However, having seen your list, Ogged, I may have to re-evaluate. Emmanuelle Béart... ghhhgaaaaa. I gotta start watching foreign films.
*Check out this awesome line from a Matt Yglesias post, in response to Matt's joking suggestion that the lovely Ms. Portman might be a Mossad agent:
I'd like to plant my Mossad in her. Eh? Eh?
Posted by Walter Sobchak | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:17 PM
Ah, Jolie. Yeah, she's definitely compelling. (though Monica Bellucci is the same kind of sexy). You have a crush on Rudi Bakhtiar too, Tim?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:20 PM
Jennifer Jason Leigh. Don't ask, because even I don't know why, but I'm totally hot for that woman.
Oh my god, no kidding. Exempting JJL, who exists on some altogether different level, and accepting SCMT's regeneration at 18-25, the list goes, in no particular order:
Audrey Hepburn
Nastassia Kinski
Isabella Rossellini
Elisha Cuthbert
and um, yeah.
For the record, Kinski and Rossellini make it at any age. Thandie Newton just misses the cut as well, but might not on a different day.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:21 PM
Jesus effing Christ. Mossad plant. Matt said "Mossad plant". I hate my life.
Posted by Walter Sobchak | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:21 PM
Don't sweat it, Walter, it wasn't funny even with the right setup.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:23 PM
No, trust me, it was. I just ruined it because I suck.
Posted by Walter Sobchak | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:25 PM
I didn't know about Cuthbert, but as little blonde hotties go, yeah. And a Montrealer. Nice.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:28 PM
I would add Hepburn ca. Roman Holiday, post-haircut.
(True Story: I thought the referent of apostropher's "Isabella Rossellini" was Christina Rossetti, whose name I thought was Isabella.)
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:29 PM
Jolie vs. Monica Bellucci: Jolie hands down. Jolie might break a little piece of you off to take as a rememberance. That sort of danger has to be worth something.
You have a crush on Rudi Bakhtiar too, Tim? Well, fuck, I do now. Thanks. On your advice, I'm trying to get over the fetish, remember?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:31 PM
Hepburn would probably be on my list, too (particularly as in Sabrina). I didn't want to put too manhy now-dead women on my list, though.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:32 PM
Don't forget Leila Hatami.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:35 PM
Nope. Nose does not look sufficiently prominent.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:40 PM
Ok, you've got issues.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:42 PM
Ah, so much strange, so little time.
I have to say, Ogged, you surprised me. Nice talent there. I also agree with 3 and 4. I also agree with the discussion to this point on Angelina Jolie.
Apo: quite solid. I might go Kinski, Hepburn, Cuthbert, Rosselini, but this is a subjective question.
And then, of course, there's JJL...but why does she haunt us all so? I have never understood if it is was a single role of hers or what...but man.
Goose's famefuckingfive:
1. Josie Maran (Van Helsing, Aviator)
2. Charlize Theron
3. Brooke Burns (Baywatch, Dog Eat Dog)
4. Jennifer Garner
5. Uma Thurman
Honorable Mention: Scarlett Johansson and Sandra Bullock
Posted by Pr Goose | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:44 PM
Oh shit, I forgot all about Scarlett Johansson!
Posted by Walter Sobchak | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:49 PM
Lemme ask you folks a question. Are you looking these people up, or do you just carry around a mental list of hot women?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:51 PM
Mental list.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:52 PM
One of the things I found baffling about Ghost World was that the male characters in it were supposed to find Scarlett Johansson's character more attractive than Thora Birch's, which is, let's face it, ridiculous.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:53 PM
Mental list. And Kinski, Hepburn, and Rossellini have been on it since I was about 13 years old.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:53 PM
Top of my list: Mira Aroyo.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:54 PM
sadly, that was off the top of my head. Bullock, Thurman, and Scarlett are long termers for me, but the others make up the five/seven I would put on my list right this minute.
If I could use that part of my brain for academic production, I'd have an endowed chair at Harvard by now.
Posted by Pr Goose | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:55 PM
ben, also remember that the guys in ghost world plainly were retarded.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:56 PM
If y'all want to see a guy set his crotch on fire, and then a band play a good song, you should watch this. Also, the guy who lights his crotch on fire sticks a screwdriver up his nose.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:57 PM
Is the problem, Ben, the fact that you're totally outclassed at this hottie list-making?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 8:59 PM
Sorry, that's "hottie-list-making."
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:00 PM
I wasn't even thinking of musicians. I'd say Dawn McCarthy but I have in fact spoken with her, plus Nils Frykdahl could totally beat me up.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:00 PM
If Shania Twain didn't perform crap music, irritate the shit out of me, and besides that fuck some guy every night who's uglier than, er, (let's see...who's not here...um...ummmm)...
ah, you get the point.
Posted by Pr Goose | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:03 PM
I'll admit to being outclassed, but that doesn't answer my question.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:04 PM
Also, you should watch that movie with the guy setting his crotch on fire.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:04 PM
What was the question again?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:05 PM
Oh wait, you did answer it, but I missed it. Nevermind.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:07 PM
can someone please help me with the JJL thing though? I don't get it. I mean, er, I'd like to get it...but I really don't get why.
kinda like the plain jane chick from Carnivale too. (of course, her PJ-ness is part of the role...as it was for Scarlett in that movie mentioned above...)
Posted by Pr Goose | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:14 PM
Are you looking these people up, or do you just carry around a mental list of hot women?
That you have to ask that question, and you have a girlfriend, strikes me as fundamentally unfair.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:16 PM
who's JJL?
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:16 PM
Jennifer Jason Leigh
Posted by Pr Goose | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:19 PM
by the way, Walter...that's a VERY good call on Tricia Helfer...I had forgotten about her.
f-ing amazing in that role.
Posted by Pr Goose | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:22 PM
f-ing amazing in that role.
Totally. Best new show on television, in any genre, hands down. And she just makes it that much better. Down, Inner Beavis! Down!
Posted by Walter Sobchak | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 9:48 PM
If we get to 75 comments without a list by a woman, some people are going to find this thread sexist.
And I think I speak for all of us when I say that I hope Wolfson's girlfriend is a shrew.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 10:14 PM
I choose not to give much thought to this, but: Shannon Sossamon.
She's irresistible.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 10:32 PM
That you have to ask that question, and you have a girlfriend, strikes me as fundamentally unfair.
I would have had to before, anyway.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-10-05 11:56 PM
1. Clint Eastwood
2. Jude Law
3. Gary Cooper
4. Brad Pitt
5. Angelina Jolie
Posted by alameida | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 2:47 AM
Oh, thanks, alameida. BTW, how's Baby s-a-l?
The younger-than-me fff list, not in any particular order:
1. Tim Olyphant
2.Jude Law
3.Ewan McGregor
4. Orlando Bloom
5. Colin Ferrell, since everybody needs one dangerous entry on their list. (But soooo not in the Alexander role. And if they really make that Miami Vice movie, he's outta here.)
Whoops, looks like I've got a thing for accents.
Posted by Camera O | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 7:52 AM
I prefer not to rank, because, well, that's just not right.
Mary-Louise Parker
Cate Blanchett
The rest I have to think about. I have a weird thing for Natalie Maines, but that might be twang+politics.
Also, Elisha Cuthbert won't stop calling me.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 8:02 AM
A female friend of mine once hypothesized that every woman was either a Brad Pitt woman or a John Cusack woman. Sounds a little binary to me, but what do I know about women?
Hint: Nothing.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 8:06 AM
Ooh, John Cusack in a NY minute. Besides, Pitt went to my high school, which I think might disqualify him as an fff, wouldn't it?
Posted by Camera O | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 8:18 AM
Where did you go to high school?
(P.S. I'm a Brad Pitt woman, and I'm a straight male.)
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 8:34 AM
What city, I mean. Not the actual school.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 8:34 AM
What, is this a test to see if I know whereof I speak? Springfield, MO. Greene County. Home of Bass Pro (ya gotta say it as all one word) and the Springfield-Branson Regional Airport (Branson, as in "would the last bad entertainers out of Nashville and Las Vegas please turn out the lights?"). Buckle of the Bible Belt.
We went to Parkview, BTW. Given its name for the brilliant reason that it sits next to a park.
Posted by Camera O | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 8:53 AM
I drove through Branson one time, and it seemed to me the biggest act in town was some Asian fiddle player.
I don't understand Branson.
But the Ozarks are pretty.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 8:56 AM
Branson is what Vegas would be like if it were designed by Ned Flanders.
Or so a little yellow man assures me.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 8:59 AM
...hmm, possibly. Or at least that's what the Branson CoC would like to project, Ben.
Joe, I think it's probably a tie between the Asian and Yakov Smirnoff. But the place is full of has-beens and progeny. I guess Utah ran out of room for all those Osmonds.
Posted by Camera O | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 9:06 AM
What a country.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 9:07 AM
Ian McKellan (I know, but nevermind)
Helen Mirren
Dave Chappelle
Al Pacino as he looked in The Godfather
John Voigt as he looked in Midnight Cowboy
Posted by Lindsay Beyerstein | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 9:25 AM
It's not a competition, but that might be the best list ever.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 9:26 AM
Linddsay reminded me of another -- Frances O'Connor.
And really, I can keep pretending that Uma Thurman's not on my list, but I don't think I'm fooling anyone.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 9:32 AM
Er, Lindsay.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 9:33 AM
1. Shirley McClaine - http://re2.mm-c.yimg.com/image/475402416
2. Elizabeth Taylor - http://re2.mm-c.yimg.com/image/307690897
3. Chelsea Clinton - http://re2.mm-a.yimg.com/image/79508688
4.Diane Sawyer - http://re2.mm-a.yimg.com/image/90865494
5. Mary Tyler Moore - http://re2.mm-b.yimg.com/image/1356242716
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:01 AM
Mary Tyler Moore! Yeah, absolutely. MTM circa the Dick Van Dyke show kills me. Diane Sawyer, on the other hand, is unacceptable.
And didn't I just show you how to do links, Tripp?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:06 AM
Oh, and Tim, way back at #11, my Thandie Newton crush also dates to Flirting, but she was 19 when that was made, so we're in the clear.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:14 AM
Kinski, Hepburn, and Rossellini have been on it since I was about 13 years old.
This morning, I tried to remember who the rest of my list would have been at 13. I'm pretty sure the other two would have been Debbie Harry and Tawny Kitaen. I think DH is a respectable pick that has held up well over the years, but Tawny Kitaen, well, that's just funny now. On any given day, though, TK might have been displaced by Catherine deNeuve.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:18 AM
The first time I saw Thandie Newton was in Gridlock'd with Tupac Shakur and Tim Roth. If you haven't seen it, the soundtrack alone makes it worth your time.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:20 AM
Remember this, apostropher?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:21 AM
HA! I'd forgotten that. Yeah, Connie Chung, too. I can't explain it.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:28 AM
I think it's Connie Chung's voice, so smooth and even. I don't know if it's that or something else about her that gives her a bit of the librarian/bad girl vibe.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:31 AM
ogged,
Yeah, you did show me how to do links. Let me try it:
hot Diane Sawyer (not work safe)
She used to be a beauty queen.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:31 AM
Don Cheadle, ladies? Anyone?
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:31 AM
You got it, Tripp. But the way Sawyer talks--like she's talking to a three-year-old--gads, it drives me nuts.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:34 AM
Tripp, did that Pets.com puppet thing do anything for you?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:36 AM
Days ago now, but I can't believe ogged mentioned Emmanuelle Béart but not la Belle Noiseuse.
Posted by Anthony | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:39 AM
Good god, has there been a lot of naked on this thread.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:40 AM
Indeed. It's actually a very good movie (and not just because she's naked for half of it), but she looks better in Un coeur en hiver.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:41 AM
ogged, do you lean more towards the Hudsucker/Mrs. Parker JJL, or the Rush/SWF JJL?
If you had to lean, I mean.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 10:45 AM
god i love lurking at this blog
Posted by Francis | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:00 AM
Joe, you make me feel all dirty for posting this, but whenever this (probably not safe for work) picture was taken, that's when.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:07 AM
Joe,
Tripp, did that Pets.com puppet thing do anything for you?
I'm not sure, do you have a link?
ogged,
Now that I am safely home I have followed your links and every pick is great.
From my picks it occurs to me that one's "archetype beauty" may be formed at a certain age, (15-20?) and then carries over from there? Certainly my list is loaded with women that were a little bit before my time.
You should do an entry on people that are supposed to be attractive but aren't. I know who I'd put on that list.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:09 AM
Having only one archetype of beauty must be pretty frustrating for you, Tripp.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:13 AM
ogged,
But the way Sawyer talks--like she's talking to a three-year-old--gads, it drives me nuts.
Oh, talking. If you want to go by talking then I really think Kathleen Turner would win hands down.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:13 AM
And Michael, what's up with "definatly"? I expect better of you.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:13 AM
whenever this (probably not safe for work) picture was taken, that's when
Jesus.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:16 AM
Can you have multiple archetypes?
Posted by Anthony | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:16 AM
ben,
Having only one archetype of beauty must be pretty frustrating for you, Tripp.
I suppose, but the gay thing never really took off for me.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:17 AM
Tripp, I was just bustin'. I was talking about the infamous interview she did with the Pets.com sock puppet. Nothing sexual about it.
I don't even know why it could be construed as funny, come to think of it.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:17 AM
Joe,
Too funny! I thought you were referring to my Chelsea Clinton pick!
I really do find her attractive. Her Mom, too. I've noticed certain looks that I like that other people don't. An odd thing is I saw some old photos of some relatives in the late 1800s and some of that look was there.
Either preferences are inherited or I'm hot for my great great grandma.
Jung or Oedipus, you pick.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:21 AM
Kinski, Hepburn, and Rossellini have been on it since I was about 13 years old.
So agree with that. Add Diana Rigg, Senta Berger and hah Romy Schneider and we get to a good reason why simply being born in he 60s doesn't cut itq!
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:22 AM
Austro,
Diana Rigg, oh yes! I think Elizabeth Hurley is her modern version.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:25 AM
Oh, talking.
Wait a second here. How are people thinking of their lists? The ones I picked are all beautiful, yes, but so are lots of women.
Beart is all proud and smart in that movie, and she learned to play the violin for the part of the violinist, so I'm impressed, and in love.
Federica Fontana, well, ok, I don't know anything about her.
Turlington. She's all sweet and cares about animals and does yoga and preaches against smoking. She'd probably hate my carnivorous ass, and I'd probably get tired of her being sweet, but I'm charmed anyway.
Newton. I don't know much about her, but she's got that whole half-brit, half-African princess thing going, and I just happen to have been thinking lately that the woman for me will turn out to be half-brit, half-Spanish (of moorish descent, naturally), and that's pretty close, no?
Lowell. Her Jamie Ross character is just about my ideal woman.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:27 AM
ogged,
How are people thinking of their lists?
People we want to have sex with. Don't be getting all deep and making me feel shallow over lunch.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:31 AM
100
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:32 AM
Too errm preppy for me, but I take the point.
I think actually Diana Rigg counts twice for me. I fell in love with her the first time I saw Casino Royale as a kid, and then in London I saw her on stage in Heartbreak House with Rex Harrison. She was 25 years older and I was smitten again. There's dislocation for you.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:32 AM
Her Jamie Ross character is just about my ideal woman.
What does that mean? Because she's a single mother with baggage from her first husband?
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:34 AM
Me again in #102.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:35 AM
It means that rather than including a celebrity on his list, ogged included a non-celebrity who doesn't exist.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:36 AM
She's smart, and principled, and tough, and she has just the right touch for a woman who knows that every man wants her: playful, but appropriately aloof and self-contained.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:37 AM
How do I pick my list:
50% form, 30% content 20%, sub-text.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:40 AM
It means that rather than including a celebrity on his list, ogged included a non-celebrity who doesn't exist.
Right, because other than that choice, this whole thread has been an exercise in realism.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:41 AM
"Tough," "aloof," and "self-contained," spell high-maintainance to me. That said, she would have made my extended list b/c, along with all that you said, she (the character) also had a winsome earnestness.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:41 AM
Huh. What you're calling "earnest" might be what I'm calling "principled." And "high maintenance" has become hopelessly vague; see here and here.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:46 AM
Ogged-
I don't think so. You're talking about her actions; I'm talking about the way her eyes widened and her voice became just-shy-of-plaintive. You think she's good; I think she remains a bit surprised that the world isn't good.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:50 AM
Joe in 107: I take the point, but it was more in response to ogged's protestations in 98. How else, really, can you base an answer to this question than on looks (or maybe scuttlebutt about bedroom behavior)?
You can't even really get out of this by construing the question as being about celebrity personae instead of celebrities (cue someone asking what the difference is in 5...), since when ogged says wossname as the ADA (or I say Thora Birch as Enid), we're not even talking about the personae these people cultivate in real life.
Basically ogged should never have brought up the actual reasons he made his list as he did, since highlighting those brings the fantastical nature of the whole endeavor way out in front, where it doesn't belong.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:50 AM
I think she remains a bit surprised that the world isn't good.
Are you forgetting her "I believe in monsters and things that go bump in the night, Jack," moment? When she recounts the awful client she had to defend who got off and went on to kill again? She knows all about the badness of the world.
Ben, the fantastical nature of the endeavor is what makes it fun. It's an exercise in imagination; otherwise we're just talking about symmetrical faces with big eyes.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:55 AM
Yeah, but it shouldn't be foregrounded.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 11:59 AM
Right, because other than that choice, this whole thread has been an exercise in realism.
Hey, I'm still young and (fairly) vibrant. I think my choices are immanently reasonable. I actually made an (admittedly weak) attempt at meeting Mira.
ben,
I don't know whether to thank you for your high opinion of me or to ask you why you're such a little bitch.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:05 PM
I'm still trying to understand why that part is sticking in your craw, ben.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:06 PM
Couldn't you do both, cupcake?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:06 PM
Consider it done, sugarloaf.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:10 PM
Michael, is "immanently" deliberate there?
Joe, I'm all in favor of exercises in imagination and fantasy and whatnot. But I think that (at least) two things can happen to make such things ridiculous. One is explicitly stating "hey let's be imaginative! Everyone imagine something" and generally intruding the fact that it's a fantasy into the proceedings—you need some negative capability. The other is sort of the flip side, when you forget that what you're doing is basically entirely fantasized. It's one thing to say that you're hot so-and-so is one thing; to go on and say "because she's smart and does good work and beautiful and I know if we met we would totally hit it off", well, it can seem pretty silly.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:19 PM
Alas, no. I'll chalk it up to an effect of automatic spell correction, because I know I've typed that word a thousand times. I suppose I mispronounce it as well, because I spelled it the way I say it.
And now I'm going to go ahead and pick on this:
It's one thing to say that you're hot so-and-so is one thing;
How should that have read?
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:38 PM
"hot for". "Hot for so-and-so", is how it should have read.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:39 PM
Wow. 118 comments and nobody's mentioned Marilyn Monroe yet?
Posted by Josh | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:41 PM
Gawd, Ben. Fantasies can totally include "because we would, like, totally hit it off." Linda Fiorentino's delivery of the line "I hate the living" is totally one of the things that feeds into my fantasy. We understand each other!
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:46 PM
Not has Ingrid Bergman been mentioned, which really is a shame.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:50 PM
I can't resist:
1. Carla Gugino. Love Carla and her Guginos.
2. Sandra Bullock.
3. Lauren Graham (natch), though if I ever met her, I'm certain that I'd be so freaked out that I'd get tongue-tied, and yes, that's a hindrance in my plans for girl-on-girl action.
4. Angelina Jolie, though on some level she scares the bejeebus out of me.
5. Mary-Louise Parker. You are a fool, Billy Crudup! A FOOL!
Posted by moira | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 12:52 PM
Matt, I'm not denying that fantasies can, and often do, contain such scenarios. I'm just saying that I think that at that point (in a public forum, anyway) the fantastical nature becomes so foregrounded that it's hard to maintain.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:03 PM
Ok, I'm a little more clear on where you're coming from, ben. I guess our mileage on this is just varying.
moira, do not get me started on Billy Crudup and his chin and how I'd like to punch it.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:08 PM
Really, Ben, I don't think it's any more foregrounded and thus difficult to maintain there than it is when we say "I'd hit that!" In either case, we aren't going to get the chance. I just think you're not an experienced enough fantasist.
See also FT on Owen Wilson--the last liability is relevant. (But the last asset? What were they thinking?)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 03-11-05 1:13 PM
(1) Jennifer Connelly in The Rocketeer
(2) Linda Fiorentino in The Last Seduction
(3) Angelina Jolie in Tomb Raider
(4) Michelle Yeoh in Tomorrow Never Dies
(5) Famke Janssen in Lord of Illusions (or heck, in anything)
Honorable mention:
Elizabeth Shue in The Karate Kid
Posted by GaijinBiker | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 12:42 AM
In no particular order (and this is just today's list; tomorrow's could be different):
Matthew McConnaughey
Kenny Mayne (yes, from ESPN; don't ask)
Gregory Peck (in To Kill a Mockingbird)
Dennis Quaid
Paul Newman (esp. in Long Hot Summer & the like)
Peter Weller (in Buckaroo Banzai)
Yes, I know that's six, too bad. And, for the record, I'll take Cusack AND Pitt, thanks for asking.
Posted by Emma Goldman | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 1:45 PM
It's pretty confusing, and totally unexpected, that there's a guy calling himself GaijinBiker, and a different guy calling himself Big Ben, whose blog is called Gaijin Bikers. Can you two group blog, or something?
In any case, that list could well be my "B" team; I'm on board with every one. My only problem with Angelina Jolie, part of whose appeal is her almost extra-terrestrial exotic freakiness, is that she's from Chicago.
And has anyone written an examination of why Fiorentino's role in The Last Seduction holds a special place in every man's heart?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 1:59 PM
There's a simple mnemonic, Ogged.
GaijinBiker is a Bush-backer, albeit a friendly and mostly reasonable one.
Big Ben, on the other hand, ends sentences with prepositions as a matter of policy.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 3:05 PM
It's not really helpful, granted, but it's simple.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 3:06 PM
Here's a better mnemonic:
Big Ben starts with the letters "BB".
"Bush Backer" also starts with "BB".
Therefore, it's easy to remember that... oh, wait, never mind.
Posted by GaijinBiker | Link to this comment | 03-14-05 5:18 PM
several days out of date, and in no particular order:
Ewan McGregor
Clive Owen
Jon Stewart
Viggo Mortenson
Gael Garcia Bernal
I'm sure this isn't my ideal list, just a kind of off the top of my head list. Brad Pitt does nothing for me.
Posted by Katherine | Link to this comment | 03-15-05 1:29 AM
You never know what the odds of running into a list member actually are.
This meme went around my friends/girlfriend at the time/her friends some years ago, not long after Rushmore came out. A long-standing English Rose thingy was triggered by Ms. Cross, so I had Olivia Williams on my list (Sixth Sense, etc).
Some time before I was married last year, I was in a friend's member club/bar in London when she walked in the room. I called out (half lit up) "hey, miss cross". (I know, believe me). Rather than sneer, she came to the table to chat. Never has my bravado been called out so convincingly, after a few minutes of chat I just looked at her, out of words, and blushed.
I told my now-wife about this, reassuring her about my lack of skills even if I wanted to try to use them, until we went away to a rural retreat in a seaside pub and found out that it was a local favorite of Williams' family.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 03-15-05 8:45 AM
Oh yeah, Olivia Williams is very attractive. And the fact that she came over to chat is great. My only (nearly) similar experience is being in a bar when Sandra Bullock walked in, just after Speed. I didn't talk to her, but lots of guys did, and she was unfailingly sweet.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-15-05 8:58 AM
Linda Fiorentino for her being in her mid 40's i still love that women and i love the way she is if i could just talk to her i think would really love her and love the way she really is and i would love to really meet her even dough she dont know me but she could get to know me
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