Ogged, I have the same conflicted feelings about Carol Vorderman, who pops up nearly everywhere on British television. Apparently, she's a Mensa-certified genius, which is why she does TV ads for car insurance, hosts do-it-yourself shows and turns the letters on some half-assed game show. She is as self-satisfied as they come, and fatuous in the extreme, and I am completely in her thrall. So I share your shame, hermano.
> I'm usually so good>/i>; I'm all about personality and character, looks are gravy, etc.
This has the ring of Slave Morality, ogged. Admit it, she's a fox. And guys dig foxy ladies. If I learned tomorrow that Zhang Ziyi was a Singerian consequentialist Yankee fan who listened exclusively to Phish, that wouldn't make her any less magnetic.
Have you seen her in Victor Nunez's Ruby in Paradise?
(a) It's a fabulous film, even better than Nunez's excellent follow-up, Ulee's Gold.
(b) It shows that Judd is, or can be, a really fine actress. She gives a great, understated performance.
(c) She is as stupendous to gaze at there as anyone anywhere. Fully crush-worthy (if not quite age-appropriate for anyone over 30).
I've actually never seen her in any other film, and I have no other conception of her than the one inspired by that film. But I can fully endorse having a crush on that notional woman (or on the notional woman she became ten years later).
I'm not sure that's the woman on whom you have a crush, however, so I'm not sure I can endorse your post.
I get what you're saying. And I've certainly lived those situations IRL, which is worse. But I think you're being too hard on yourself. Is it possible that the nature of your crush has changed? Before you crushed on her in sentimental ways, and now it's purely for the hot and sweaty?
Do you aspire to that sort of entitlement at all - even just a teensy bit? I know when I'm attracted to an arrogant asshole, part of me wishes that I could get away with being a complete jerk myself.
Hey, this is interesting. The front page shows the last four comments as being in the order Joe-Austro-Austro-ac (most recent last), but we see here the order Austro-Joe-ac-Austro.
Re: original post -- could it be that it is not only her hotness, but the horribleness of her character itself that attracts in a primal way? I have experienced similar feelings with regard to Catherine Keener, or at least the characters she has played (also with Zhang Ziyi).
There is something in the act itself that is dominating -- no way to take that out. Through Ashley Judd, you would dominate something that is awful, and powerful, and in doing so proclaim your own power. You find her shallowness particularly loathsome. Shallowness is a force -- many people not only accept it, but aspire to a level of shallowness. You aren't shallow; you detest the urge towards it. By having Ashley Judd, you could asserted yourself over the force of shallowness that you have observed, and loathed.
You are ashamed of these feelings because they run counter to your world-view (and mine). You would rather men and women interact like rational beings. But you also want to teach Ashley Judd a lesson.
Interesting, textualist, and true in some cases, probably. In the particular instance though, I had a crush on Ashley Judd, then found out about her character, and haven't been cured of my crush, which makes me fear for my own character.
Oh, and that's also meant to address baa's comment at #4. Like I say, this isn't just a Naomi Campbell hot woman with objectionable personality thing. It's that I'm actively in danger of adopting the very view that makes her objectionable: the belief that she's all that. And if I start thinking that it's ok to make an exception for Ashley Judd, then my belief that people shouldn't be self-absorbed doesn't mean much. The rule of law is at stake here, people
Yes, as if your "character" (or mine) was not just a series of rationalizations, with minor adjustments made for coherence, of your underlying wants and needs.
Ashley Judd is just trying to be funny in the article. she is failing, but it isn't easy to be funny in print. The story would probably be a more charming in person.
I feel for her. Who wouldn't hate going to indy car races all spring long.
I wouldn't, if seated next to the lovely, shallow UK-rooting Ms. Judd. I contend that any story told by a very attractive woman is more charming in person. But I think the words probably indicate shallowness.
Yeah, she was beautiful in Ruby in Paradise, and deep, or a good enough actor to pull off a convincing deep.
Has she made another good movie? Seems like she's been in a series of indistinguishable crapfests with Morgan Freeman released about annually and other than that . . . ?
Her character provoked the most memorable line in this film, Pacino's self-parodying "Because she's got a great aaasssssss!!! And you got your head right up it!!!"
Oh. Well, in real life entering into a realtionship hoping to change the other person is not really a good idea. I wish more brides understood that.
As someone else said - it's Spring. Your little head is just talking a little louder than your big head right now.
Nellie was the spoiled 'bad' girl that would do mean things to the 'good' Laura Ingalls on "The Little House on the Prarie." She was reasonably attractive, although not remarkable, but you just knew with the right guy she'd melt.
Thanks. If I recall correctly, Alison Arngrim (the actor playing Nellie) did a little cheescake after Little House to try to break out on the child actor mold, but without the Nellie persona she lacked spark.
I'm loving this post because I often find myself attracted to inappropriate women in spite of - or because of - the reasons they're inappropriate, i.e. Brittany Murphy - unabashed skank. I find myself warming up to her skankiness, perhaps much like Ogged finds himself increasingly enchanted by Ashley's vapidity. Marcia Cross also comes to mind because I find her coldness, her Bette Davis eyebrows, and her Botoxed head all incredibly off-putting and yet...
Oh, my YES. Something for everyone. First of all, to anyone who loved Sports Night, there's Felicity Huffman. Then there's the adorably daffy Teri Hatcher, the sexy and shallow Eva Longoria and the walking female id of Nicolette Sheridan.
I came late to the party on this one but it's been totally worth it. Besides, it's not like it's the Wire where you kind of have to figure out what's going on to enjoy it. It's Melrose Place meets Twin Peaks. Okay, it's Melrose Place meets Veronica Mars.
I agree on Hatcher, but Huffman (whom I loved in Sports Night has been treated less kindly by the years than anyone I can think of. Suddenly, William Macy as her husband doesn't seem like such a stretch.
He's tweaking ogged. He's saying, you're getting no dates, and it's already day 24, but I—well, I'm no Errol Flynn, but I get some action. I'm getting calls. The ladies want me.
I haven't seen Sports Night, nor Desperate Housewives, but just from looking at pictures of Felicity Huffman, it seems to me that she's always looked about the same. Teri Hatcher looks best with clothes on, which makes ogling her really unsatisfying. But I'll try to watch this show, if only to see what you're all on about.
Would like to get Wy Judd's e-mail adress to tell her that I think she would be a great candidate for the Gastric By-pass weight loss surgery. I had the surgery and am thin now and loving life more. I got fat because I loved to eat, no big emotional reasons (Oprah is not always right). So now I can eat anything only in small ammounts, it is a God Send to many desperate people. Wy there is a cure!!
Apparently, guest columnists do not have editors.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 12:48 AM
Ogged, I have the same conflicted feelings about Carol Vorderman, who pops up nearly everywhere on British television. Apparently, she's a Mensa-certified genius, which is why she does TV ads for car insurance, hosts do-it-yourself shows and turns the letters on some half-assed game show. She is as self-satisfied as they come, and fatuous in the extreme, and I am completely in her thrall. So I share your shame, hermano.
Posted by peter snees | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 3:12 AM
Ashley Judd is a respectable crush. It would be different if you had an unshakeable fascination with Wynona Judd.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 6:10 AM
> I'm usually so good>/i>; I'm all about personality and character, looks are gravy, etc.
This has the ring of Slave Morality, ogged. Admit it, she's a fox. And guys dig foxy ladies. If I learned tomorrow that Zhang Ziyi was a Singerian consequentialist Yankee fan who listened exclusively to Phish, that wouldn't make her any less magnetic.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 7:17 AM
Have you seen her in Victor Nunez's Ruby in Paradise?
(a) It's a fabulous film, even better than Nunez's excellent follow-up, Ulee's Gold.
(b) It shows that Judd is, or can be, a really fine actress. She gives a great, understated performance.
(c) She is as stupendous to gaze at there as anyone anywhere. Fully crush-worthy (if not quite age-appropriate for anyone over 30).
I've actually never seen her in any other film, and I have no other conception of her than the one inspired by that film. But I can fully endorse having a crush on that notional woman (or on the notional woman she became ten years later).
I'm not sure that's the woman on whom you have a crush, however, so I'm not sure I can endorse your post.
Posted by Ted H. | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 7:21 AM
Can somebody please write a story about "a Singerian consequentialist Yankee fan who listened exclusively to Phish".
Posted by chris | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 7:31 AM
You mean A Handmaid's Tale?
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 7:40 AM
Ogged,
I get what you're saying. And I've certainly lived those situations IRL, which is worse. But I think you're being too hard on yourself. Is it possible that the nature of your crush has changed? Before you crushed on her in sentimental ways, and now it's purely for the hot and sweaty?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 7:43 AM
I've got to start listening to more jam bands, if only to heat up the blog...
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 7:59 AM
Try these guys. Even their name is incindiary.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:02 AM
Incendiary.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:02 AM
No, no, you want to start with these guys.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:26 AM
Excellent. Joe has started to internalize me.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:26 AM
Also, I have this same thing with Jessica Alba. What a sense of entitlement on that girl. But Christ Almighty.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:27 AM
Excellent. Joe has started to internalize me.
I'm your whelp. You've turned me into a quaking bundle of neuroses, you whip-cracking bastard. You happy?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:30 AM
I'm happy that the first comment to address that comment wasn't by FL and didn't refer to the Mineshaft, yes.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:32 AM
We'll get there, never fear.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:36 AM
I don't pick such low-hanging fruit during Holy Week.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:36 AM
Do you aspire to that sort of entitlement at all - even just a teensy bit? I know when I'm attracted to an arrogant asshole, part of me wishes that I could get away with being a complete jerk myself.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:41 AM
I'm not sure that's the woman on whom you have a crush
There is a version of Helen Bonham-Carter that did this to me, back in the day. But I'm sort of over it now.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:41 AM
Hey, this is interesting. The front page shows the last four comments as being in the order Joe-Austro-Austro-ac (most recent last), but we see here the order Austro-Joe-ac-Austro.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:47 AM
Do you aspire to that sort of entitlement at all - even just a teensy bit?
I think it's more about, boy, she soooooo doesn't seem to need anything or anyone. But what if she needed me?
I'm all kinds of fucked up.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:48 AM
BW, I've noticed that before.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:48 AM
Also, I have this same thing with Jessica Alba. What a sense of entitlement on that girl. But Christ Almighty.
I sat through Honey. Cured me of that.
Posted by ptm | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:48 AM
Maybe the difference has to do with when you start the comment. I take a long time to compose mine.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:49 AM
and i thought it was my cache, or sommat.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:49 AM
ptm, I might spend money for Sin City. But that's cool, right? Comic book? Comic books are cool, right?
Please, someone, remove my feeding tube.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 8:57 AM
I made it through three paragraphs.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 9:27 AM
Re: original post -- could it be that it is not only her hotness, but the horribleness of her character itself that attracts in a primal way? I have experienced similar feelings with regard to Catherine Keener, or at least the characters she has played (also with Zhang Ziyi).
There is something in the act itself that is dominating -- no way to take that out. Through Ashley Judd, you would dominate something that is awful, and powerful, and in doing so proclaim your own power. You find her shallowness particularly loathsome. Shallowness is a force -- many people not only accept it, but aspire to a level of shallowness. You aren't shallow; you detest the urge towards it. By having Ashley Judd, you could asserted yourself over the force of shallowness that you have observed, and loathed.
You are ashamed of these feelings because they run counter to your world-view (and mine). You would rather men and women interact like rational beings. But you also want to teach Ashley Judd a lesson.
Posted by textualist | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 9:43 AM
"you could asserted"
I point out my illiteracy so others do not have to expend the energy.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 9:46 AM
Interesting, textualist, and true in some cases, probably. In the particular instance though, I had a crush on Ashley Judd, then found out about her character, and haven't been cured of my crush, which makes me fear for my own character.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 9:49 AM
Oh, and that's also meant to address baa's comment at #4. Like I say, this isn't just a Naomi Campbell hot woman with objectionable personality thing. It's that I'm actively in danger of adopting the very view that makes her objectionable: the belief that she's all that. And if I start thinking that it's ok to make an exception for Ashley Judd, then my belief that people shouldn't be self-absorbed doesn't mean much. The rule of law is at stake here, people
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 9:53 AM
Yes, as if your "character" (or mine) was not just a series of rationalizations, with minor adjustments made for coherence, of your underlying wants and needs.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 9:55 AM
It could be that you have found a new basis for your attraction. Or it could just be that she is very Hott.
Posted by textualist | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 9:57 AM
Tim, that's disturbing. Anyway, it might be that my overriding need is to be principled, yadda yadda. I'm not getting off the hook that easily.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 9:59 AM
Ashley Judd is just trying to be funny in the article. she is failing, but it isn't easy to be funny in print. The story would probably be a more charming in person.
I feel for her. Who wouldn't hate going to indy car races all spring long.
Posted by joe o | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 10:19 AM
I wouldn't, if seated next to the lovely, shallow UK-rooting Ms. Judd. I contend that any story told by a very attractive woman is more charming in person. But I think the words probably indicate shallowness.
Posted by textualist | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 11:24 AM
Yeah, she was beautiful in Ruby in Paradise, and deep, or a good enough actor to pull off a convincing deep.
Has she made another good movie? Seems like she's been in a series of indistinguishable crapfests with Morgan Freeman released about annually and other than that . . . ?
Posted by Brian | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:03 PM
She was in Heat and Natural Born Killers, neither of which I've seen but which I know some people liked.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:11 PM
She was in Heat
Her character provoked the most memorable line in this film, Pacino's self-parodying "Because she's got a great aaasssssss!!! And you got your head right up it!!!"
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:15 PM
This really tells you how my mind works. I've seen Heat probably five times, and I can't remember her in it. Val Kilmer's wife?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:20 PM
Yes.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:22 PM
You remember that line, though, right?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:23 PM
People. Why not just admit it? huh?
It is springtime. They're called hormones. Its hard to be philosophical with that head. All this denial, already.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:25 PM
I do remember the line, and would render the second part, "rightupit!"
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:28 PM
Even better.
That line was the moment I abandoned hope for Pacino.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:30 PM
You lie. You loved it.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:32 PM
Why, just because I bought it on DVD?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:34 PM
That's what I thought.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:35 PM
Holy shit, it is springtime, as of two days ago. What the fuck, Chicago.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:35 PM
Just like Vienna: You know its springtime when the snow turns to rain. If you need the weather as an indicator, that is.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 1:41 PM
ogged,
I'm all about personality and character,
No you're not! At least be honest to yourself.
What guy wouldn't want the hot girl that only he can tame? The challenge, the prize, the Taming of the Shrew.
Remember Nellie on "Little House on the Prarie?" Is there anyone hotter?
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 2:16 PM
Remember Nellie on "Little House on the Prarie?"
Uh, no. This reminds me of Kim's "young Dave Winfield" comment.
No you're not! At least be honest to yourself.
Well, personality, character, ethnicity and various other superficial markers, but not, usually, just looks.
The challenge, the prize, the Taming of the Shrew.
Been there, done that, never again.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 2:20 PM
ogged,
Been there, done that, never again.
Oh. Well, in real life entering into a realtionship hoping to change the other person is not really a good idea. I wish more brides understood that.
As someone else said - it's Spring. Your little head is just talking a little louder than your big head right now.
Nellie was the spoiled 'bad' girl that would do mean things to the 'good' Laura Ingalls on "The Little House on the Prarie." She was reasonably attractive, although not remarkable, but you just knew with the right guy she'd melt.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 2:27 PM
You link to that comment thread, but leave the comment spam up for all to see?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 2:28 PM
Tripp. For old time's sake.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 2:33 PM
Yikes.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 2:36 PM
I always meant to see Ruby in Paradise. Ok, thanks folks, I'll check it out.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 2:46 PM
ogged,
Thanks. If I recall correctly, Alison Arngrim (the actor playing Nellie) did a little cheescake after Little House to try to break out on the child actor mold, but without the Nellie persona she lacked spark.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 03-23-05 2:49 PM
I'm loving this post because I often find myself attracted to inappropriate women in spite of - or because of - the reasons they're inappropriate, i.e. Brittany Murphy - unabashed skank. I find myself warming up to her skankiness, perhaps much like Ogged finds himself increasingly enchanted by Ashley's vapidity. Marcia Cross also comes to mind because I find her coldness, her Bette Davis eyebrows, and her Botoxed head all incredibly off-putting and yet...
Then again - it is Spring...
Posted by moira | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 11:20 AM
Marcia Cross, yes, I keep thinking there's a human being in there, and wouldn't it be neat to find her!
Should I watch this Desperate Housewives thing?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 11:27 AM
Oh, my YES. Something for everyone. First of all, to anyone who loved Sports Night, there's Felicity Huffman. Then there's the adorably daffy Teri Hatcher, the sexy and shallow Eva Longoria and the walking female id of Nicolette Sheridan.
I came late to the party on this one but it's been totally worth it. Besides, it's not like it's the Wire where you kind of have to figure out what's going on to enjoy it. It's Melrose Place meets Twin Peaks. Okay, it's Melrose Place meets Veronica Mars.
Posted by moira | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 12:36 PM
I agree on Hatcher, but Huffman (whom I loved in Sports Night has been treated less kindly by the years than anyone I can think of. Suddenly, William Macy as her husband doesn't seem like such a stretch.
Posted by SomeCallMe | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 1:10 PM
SomeCallMe
What's this all about?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 1:18 PM
He's tweaking ogged. He's saying, you're getting no dates, and it's already day 24, but I—well, I'm no Errol Flynn, but I get some action. I'm getting calls. The ladies want me.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 1:20 PM
I haven't seen Sports Night, nor Desperate Housewives, but just from looking at pictures of Felicity Huffman, it seems to me that she's always looked about the same. Teri Hatcher looks best with clothes on, which makes ogling her really unsatisfying. But I'll try to watch this show, if only to see what you're all on about.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 2:52 PM
Hey Labs, Brittany Murphy, freaky...too freaky?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 2:54 PM
Wynona Judd would not be the same, but is she chunky....?
For a decade the same thing happened to me with Geena Davis. Then, either she changed, or I did. It was as if I didn't know her anymore....
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 03-24-05 8:51 PM
Would like to get Wy Judd's e-mail adress to tell her that I think she would be a great candidate for the Gastric By-pass weight loss surgery. I had the surgery and am thin now and loving life more. I got fat because I loved to eat, no big emotional reasons (Oprah is not always right). So now I can eat anything only in small ammounts, it is a God Send to many desperate people. Wy there is a cure!!
Posted by Cathy Simms | Link to this comment | 02-27-06 9:12 AM