But Ogged, none of that ever happened. THat was the point of the speechulation I think.
I don't understand why they can't admit that they fucked up horribly and start to hold people up the chain of command responsible. But once they made Gonzalez AG, there was probably no turning back. I think sometimes this is how it felt to be in France during L'Affaire.... Which isn't to say that I think that everyone or even anyone at Gitmo is innocent. I just don't know that they are guilty.
Bad things are going to happen as a result of war. Its how you react and whether you choose to make them policy that defines you as a country.
And in some ways its just like the Memorial Day issue. In order for us to be able to bear this stain we have to imagine some set of justifications for fighting terrorism with our actual ethos as opposed to our purported one.
I was wondering why bush gave the definition. He clearly said "disassemble" rather than "dissemble". There isn't any folksy Texas way to pronouce "dissemble". He just fucked up on his own.
This is what depresses me so. I'd feel better if he was some sort of evil genius, a la Nixon, but he so obviously isn't. He's just a garden variety idiot, Chance the Gardener minus the altruism and gentle nature.
A nation of C- students went and elected one of their own to be principal.
"So back of it all is bourgeois America. This is a crude world of finery and excrement. A proud, lazy civilization that worships its own boorishness." - Herzog
Predictions that come true: H.L. Mencken wrote this in 1920:
"The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre -- the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.
"The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
The irrepressible optimist, who discovers in every disease of the state a blessing in disguise, will say that eminent abilities are unnecessary in democracies. We commend him to a short study of the recent doings of Congress, and, if this cannot dispel his illusion, his case is beyond hope.
Also:
There are prophets of evil who see in the disorders that involve us the precursors of speedy ruin; but complete disruption and anarchy are, we may hope, still far off, thanks to an immense vitality and an inherited conservative strength. The immediate question is this: Is the nation in the way of keeping its lofty promise, realizing its sublime possibilities, advancing the best interests of humanity, and helping to ennoble and not vulgarize the world? Who dares answer that it is?
Indeed, these are the worst of all times. As a wise man recently said, "Our youth now loves luxuries. They have bad manners, contempt for authority. They show disrespect for elders and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants, of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
And we know for sure that this is not true: "There exists in human nature a strong propensity to depreciate the advantages, and to magnify the evils, of the present times."
Nah. Things are just far worse than ever they have been.
I've actually been thinking that things aren't as bad as they appear here in the nation's capitol. (The mega shark tank). While pension security for working Americans generally is taking a beating, the social security fight has been uplifting and fun. And the most healthy thing that has happened in years. Although labor is tearing itself into tiny egotistical pieces, more attention is being focused on the real problems than ever before. Ditto the Democratic Party. No Child Left Behind is very flawed legislation that is making a lot of my friends very unhappy. But it is not the epitome of evil. And it really is fixable. The Medicare prescription drug benefit is ridiculous. But it exists. Corrupt figures like Tom DeLay are staples of American life, and their comeuppance is generally delicious.
So the three legacies that really depress me are bad deficits, bad judges and torture. The first two are part of losing elections. I can deal. But not the the last. I don't think itsthe lowest point ever for mankind - witness my thinking its similar to the Dreyfuss Affair. But really, it is pretty bad.
But Ogged, none of that ever happened. THat was the point of the speechulation I think.
I don't understand why they can't admit that they fucked up horribly and start to hold people up the chain of command responsible. But once they made Gonzalez AG, there was probably no turning back. I think sometimes this is how it felt to be in France during L'Affaire.... Which isn't to say that I think that everyone or even anyone at Gitmo is innocent. I just don't know that they are guilty.
Bad things are going to happen as a result of war. Its how you react and whether you choose to make them policy that defines you as a country.
And in some ways its just like the Memorial Day issue. In order for us to be able to bear this stain we have to imagine some set of justifications for fighting terrorism with our actual ethos as opposed to our purported one.
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 10:08 PM
I was wondering why bush gave the definition. He clearly said "disassemble" rather than "dissemble". There isn't any folksy Texas way to pronouce "dissemble". He just fucked up on his own.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 11:10 PM
This is what depresses me so. I'd feel better if he was some sort of evil genius, a la Nixon, but he so obviously isn't. He's just a garden variety idiot, Chance the Gardener minus the altruism and gentle nature.
A nation of C- students went and elected one of their own to be principal.
"So back of it all is bourgeois America. This is a crude world of finery and excrement. A proud, lazy civilization that worships its own boorishness." - Herzog
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 12:04 AM
Predictions that come true: H.L. Mencken wrote this in 1920:
"The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre -- the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.
"The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
So it is. So it is.
-- Badtux the Snarky Penguin
Posted by BadTux | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 12:44 AM
From Francis Parkman, The Failure of Universal Suffrage (1878)
Also:
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 1:13 AM
Of course Parkman was a huge elitist who questioned most people's right to vote, so maybe we don't want to endorse his views.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 1:16 AM
Ogged, you've forced me to pull a Gary Farber on you.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 6:03 AM
Indeed, these are the worst of all times. As a wise man recently said, "Our youth now loves luxuries. They have bad manners, contempt for authority. They show disrespect for elders and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants, of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
And we know for sure that this is not true: "There exists in human nature a strong propensity to depreciate the advantages, and to magnify the evils, of the present times."
Nah. Things are just far worse than ever they have been.
Posted by Gary Farber | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 7:04 AM
I've actually been thinking that things aren't as bad as they appear here in the nation's capitol. (The mega shark tank). While pension security for working Americans generally is taking a beating, the social security fight has been uplifting and fun. And the most healthy thing that has happened in years. Although labor is tearing itself into tiny egotistical pieces, more attention is being focused on the real problems than ever before. Ditto the Democratic Party. No Child Left Behind is very flawed legislation that is making a lot of my friends very unhappy. But it is not the epitome of evil. And it really is fixable. The Medicare prescription drug benefit is ridiculous. But it exists. Corrupt figures like Tom DeLay are staples of American life, and their comeuppance is generally delicious.
So the three legacies that really depress me are bad deficits, bad judges and torture. The first two are part of losing elections. I can deal. But not the the last. I don't think itsthe lowest point ever for mankind - witness my thinking its similar to the Dreyfuss Affair. But really, it is pretty bad.
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 8:37 AM
BadTux, I love that.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 8:48 AM
Gary,
I take your point, but personally I am actually optimistic about our youth.
Out of rebellion, they will eventually reject jingoism and consumerism, at least to some degree.
My problem is that I don't want to hand them a country and world that is a piece of crap.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 9:50 AM
http://www.sdiy.org/pasty/zoo/ckeux2x/zoo-beast-french.html http://www.sdiy.org/pasty/fat/mqwen/fee.html currentmontgomerypause
Posted by movement | Link to this comment | 01-25-06 2:21 PM