I once had a dream that there was a card system for dealing with rude people, like in soccer. You would flash a yellow card for a first offense, red to have them ejected from the movie theater or wherever.
I've been curious for awhile, why do middle-eastern men add on "my friend" so often? Even when obviously angry and confrontational? I'm possibly mistaken here by assigning this behavior to "middle-eastern men" in general, but I can't knowledgably make the attribution any more specific. My guess is that this is a custom in their native language which carries over to English, but I'm not sure.
I do hope your trip went well, despite all my being an ass. I have had a couple rendevous with an ex, but neither went well. I was entirely unable to be comfortable, and ended up acting weirdly. You, however, seem to have had fun, so, you know, I'm happy for you to the extent that such is possible.
See, this is never going to work. If you actually want to change behavior, you should have started with, "Are you filling up? Then why's your fucking still sitting there?"
Righteous anger is definitely da bomb, but the problem nowadays is that the recipient might be packing.
I'm trying to think of a good way one could use his Middle Eastern heritage in a threatening way that would not have the potential for serious backfire.
Damn.
It's like being a BIG guy. For the most part I get my way simply by existing, but I also have limits other people don't. A tiny midget little old lady could go nuclear on someone and that's the end of it. If I even brush against someone it is lawsuit city.
Ogged, I am afraid your only recourse is to do what I do - bottle it up and put a heavy bag in your basement.
Please be aware that I have already expressed my hostility towards the Shi'a responsible to this site. The purpose of my presence here is purely to monitor his evilacious actions; any comments I make are solely for the purpose of gaining his trust through repeated interactions. Please have no doubt of my devotion to Der Leader. As an act of good faith, I point out that purported good American baa has promised to break the evil-doer out of Gitmo should you, in your infinite wisdom, find that such is where he deserves to be. Oh, Weiner is working with me, too.
A tiny midget little old lady could go nuclear on someone and that's the end of it. If I even brush against someone it is lawsuit city.
That's a good point, Tripp. But I don't really intend to become Mr. Insane. In this instance, I probably should have said something like, "Sir, you pump gas at the pump, and park in the parking lot."
There's an intermediate strategy between polite hinting and open hostility -- polite directness, neither allowing for the person you're talking to to misunderstand you, nor commenting on the assholishness of their prior behavior. It's not normal to do this for some reason, but it's surprisingly effective to, for example, in your situation say something like "Please move your car -- I'd like to use the pump." The person you're talking to has a choice between obedience, or starting a fuss from a position of being totally in the wrong.
This works like a charm on the subway, anyway -- you'll get two guys sprawling with their legs spread, taking up four seats between them, with a bunch of people standing up and hating them for it. A simple "May I sit down?" gets them to move over every time, with a sort of baffled irritation -- they can't quite figure out how to either say "No, you may not," or to pretend I haven't spoken, and they don't have any plausible pretext for being aggressively pissed off at me.
I should say that, at least for me, it feels weirder to do this than you'd think. I feel like some cross between Mary Poppins, Miss Manners, and a severe old woman with an ivory-headed cane when I pull this on people -- I have a strong sense that I'm doing something anachronistic. So if you start doing it, report back on how it feels, and how people react.
Will do. I think it'll be a bit different for a man, since other guys will immediately get their backs up. But you're right that generally, a simple appeal to decency works.
Yeah, I can see people's hackles raising when I do it. This doesn't work because the situation is totally defused by your politesse, it works because they just can't figure out how to react in a way that isn't more unreasonable than they can justify being. I actually (this should make Tim happy) wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't at least sometimes provoke open hostility coming from a guy, so you might get some castblogging out of this after all.
I've actually had obscenities shouted at me once in a context like this, after I asked some out-of-town tourist who was blocking a subway escalator if he could please stand on the right, so people could walk by him to catch their trains. But I think he was prepped for New Yorkers to be rude to him, and would have shouted obscenities pretty much regardless of the nature of the interaction.
I think you are talking about "command presence." I do it all the time. It feels weird at the start because most of us are taught through school to be followers, not leaders, but the more you do it the more natural it becomes.
Leaders lead, and as you have pointed out most people instictively follow. It is normal group behavior. The group craves a leader and why shouldn't it be you?
Qu'est-ce que c'est?
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:06 PM
I guess I'd better watch myself.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:15 PM
I once had a dream that there was a card system for dealing with rude people, like in soccer. You would flash a yellow card for a first offense, red to have them ejected from the movie theater or wherever.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:17 PM
Step 1: Begin thug lifestyle
Step 2: get game
Step 3: rollin' in bitches
I've been curious for awhile, why do middle-eastern men add on "my friend" so often? Even when obviously angry and confrontational? I'm possibly mistaken here by assigning this behavior to "middle-eastern men" in general, but I can't knowledgably make the attribution any more specific. My guess is that this is a custom in their native language which carries over to English, but I'm not sure.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:32 PM
I know it's May, but I'm making New Year's Resolution
I guess dropping the article is another language-holdover.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:35 PM
Damn it people, I've been driving all day.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:36 PM
Re: "my friend:" yeah, Arab guys say this a lot; I haven't noticed Iranians saying it. As to why, I have no idea; Arabs are crazy.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:37 PM
One could ask if you got any, but I think the "mr. confrontational" philosophy answers that very well.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:49 PM
Unless he was Mr. Confrontational in L.A., and that worked for him getting some, and now he thinks he needs to continue that practice.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 9:53 PM
I do hope your trip went well, despite all my being an ass. I have had a couple rendevous with an ex, but neither went well. I was entirely unable to be comfortable, and ended up acting weirdly. You, however, seem to have had fun, so, you know, I'm happy for you to the extent that such is possible.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 10:00 PM
So anyway, can we set up a pool to guess on what date ogged first gets his ass kicked? (Wolfson - fix!)
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 10:25 PM
I was thinking about that. "Hey, your hog is in. my. way."
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 10:29 PM
See, this is never going to work. If you actually want to change behavior, you should have started with, "Are you filling up? Then why's your fucking still sitting there?"
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 10:46 PM
No no, today I was still being polite. For the last time.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 10:48 PM
Where else would his fucking sit?
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 10:51 PM
In situations like this you should first hint at the possibility of some sort of insanity lurking beneath your otherwise polite exterior. For example:
"Hey buddy, have a light? I hate waiting for things and I'm just dying to have a smoke."
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 11:23 PM
I never would have figured Ogged for the Michael-Douglas-in-Falling Down-type. Only a matter of time now...
Posted by Tarrou | Link to this comment | 05- 1-05 11:37 PM
His fucking still, washerdreyer. He was in line for corn at the moonshiner's supply depot.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 6:46 AM
Righteous anger is definitely da bomb, but the problem nowadays is that the recipient might be packing.
I'm trying to think of a good way one could use his Middle Eastern heritage in a threatening way that would not have the potential for serious backfire.
Damn.
It's like being a BIG guy. For the most part I get my way simply by existing, but I also have limits other people don't. A tiny midget little old lady could go nuclear on someone and that's the end of it. If I even brush against someone it is lawsuit city.
Ogged, I am afraid your only recourse is to do what I do - bottle it up and put a heavy bag in your basement.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:02 AM
bomb... backfire... go nuclear... that's the end of it...
Once Carnivore gets a good look at that, we're all headed to Gitmo.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:05 AM
Dear Mr. Government Agent man:
Please be aware that I have already expressed my hostility towards the Shi'a responsible to this site. The purpose of my presence here is purely to monitor his evilacious actions; any comments I make are solely for the purpose of gaining his trust through repeated interactions. Please have no doubt of my devotion to Der Leader. As an act of good faith, I point out that purported good American baa has promised to break the evil-doer out of Gitmo should you, in your infinite wisdom, find that such is where he deserves to be. Oh, Weiner is working with me, too.
(How's that, Matt).
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:16 AM
(How's that, Matt?)
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:37 AM
I occasionally run in while the gas is pumping. Where does this fall on the spectrum of ogged-defined crime?
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:40 AM
You know, there are times when people pay with cash.
Posted by Ramar | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:48 AM
I just posted this in Labs' thread too: taking about as long as going in to pay seems perfectly acceptable to me.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:52 AM
A tiny midget little old lady could go nuclear on someone and that's the end of it. If I even brush against someone it is lawsuit city.
That's a good point, Tripp. But I don't really intend to become Mr. Insane. In this instance, I probably should have said something like, "Sir, you pump gas at the pump, and park in the parking lot."
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:53 AM
You should say "I've got a pump you can use", and then take out a shotgun from your back seat.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 7:56 AM
Ogged, are you saying that, up until now, you've been restraining your confrontationalism?
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 8:00 AM
In real life, yes.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 8:01 AM
You should say "I've got a pump you can use", and then
whip it out.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 8:02 AM
That sounds like something Lyndon Johnson would have done.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 9:06 AM
I thought of one thing you could try.
You could say something like "Excuse me, sir? You seem like a nice guy. I have nothing personal against you. You should move that car RIGHT AWAY!!"
Then look all shifty-eyed.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 9:23 AM
There's an intermediate strategy between polite hinting and open hostility -- polite directness, neither allowing for the person you're talking to to misunderstand you, nor commenting on the assholishness of their prior behavior. It's not normal to do this for some reason, but it's surprisingly effective to, for example, in your situation say something like "Please move your car -- I'd like to use the pump." The person you're talking to has a choice between obedience, or starting a fuss from a position of being totally in the wrong.
This works like a charm on the subway, anyway -- you'll get two guys sprawling with their legs spread, taking up four seats between them, with a bunch of people standing up and hating them for it. A simple "May I sit down?" gets them to move over every time, with a sort of baffled irritation -- they can't quite figure out how to either say "No, you may not," or to pretend I haven't spoken, and they don't have any plausible pretext for being aggressively pissed off at me.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 11:09 AM
That's a really good point, LB. I'll try it that way, even if it is less bloggable.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 12:42 PM
Yeah, thanks for ruining the potential for ogged to try cast-blogging. Thanks a lot.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 12:43 PM
Are there other blogs where the regulars actively wish the blogger to come to harm?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 12:45 PM
I should say that, at least for me, it feels weirder to do this than you'd think. I feel like some cross between Mary Poppins, Miss Manners, and a severe old woman with an ivory-headed cane when I pull this on people -- I have a strong sense that I'm doing something anachronistic. So if you start doing it, report back on how it feels, and how people react.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 12:51 PM
Will do. I think it'll be a bit different for a man, since other guys will immediately get their backs up. But you're right that generally, a simple appeal to decency works.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 12:54 PM
Yeah, I can see people's hackles raising when I do it. This doesn't work because the situation is totally defused by your politesse, it works because they just can't figure out how to react in a way that isn't more unreasonable than they can justify being. I actually (this should make Tim happy) wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't at least sometimes provoke open hostility coming from a guy, so you might get some castblogging out of this after all.
I've actually had obscenities shouted at me once in a context like this, after I asked some out-of-town tourist who was blocking a subway escalator if he could please stand on the right, so people could walk by him to catch their trains. But I think he was prepped for New Yorkers to be rude to him, and would have shouted obscenities pretty much regardless of the nature of the interaction.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 2-05 1:04 PM
LizardBreath,
I think you are talking about "command presence." I do it all the time. It feels weird at the start because most of us are taught through school to be followers, not leaders, but the more you do it the more natural it becomes.
Leaders lead, and as you have pointed out most people instictively follow. It is normal group behavior. The group craves a leader and why shouldn't it be you?
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 6:09 AM