International soccer now cards players who dive in search of a foul, even in situations where a foul would not have drawn a card. I don't know exactly what the effect has been except probably to weed out the lousy divers and reward the good divers.
You also have to account for the possibility that some of the defensive fouls that are currently called in the NBA are actually failed dives.
It's a crying shame this didn't produce a larger comments thread, especially with your gratuitous and accurate passing slam on the wussdom that is soccer. Here's a related question: Are European B-ballers worse floppers than the domestics? I would say that, despite Divac, the answer is no.
Is there a carve-out for players who properly "take charges," or is it all flopping? I remember that Shane Battier become well known for "taking charges" while in college before he was good at doing much else. But he was celebrated for it.
i have yet to understand why tripping isn't allowed in soccer. If football teaches us anything it is that grass is to be fallen on. I say if you aim for the ball it should be ok.
I feel like the Jailblazers perfected the form of the flop a few years ago, back when Rasheed was pulling down more Ts in a series than most teams picked up in a season. But no individual could out-flop Divac.
In a brain-on-brain deathmatch, do their respective consciousnesses notice anything unusual? Wolfson-brain works its mantis technique on my cerebellum, making me teeter and knock over the ficus – that sort of thing.
Warning: Question of mild substance follows.
What would basketball partisans describe as their sport's merits relative to, say, soccer? To some degree there's no disputing taste in sports, so I guess I'm asking people to describe which aspects of sport they value over others. (For these purposes, meta-issues like which sport's referees are suckers for dives don't count.)
In other words, why is ogged so very, very disappointed in me?
SB, not so much that you don't like basketball, but that you prefer soccer, which is, somehow, even more wussified than badminton (I say this even though I have a relative who plays a fair bit of soccer and is built like a rock). I think you're right that this can't possibly be a fruitful discussion ;)
I *can* say why I like watching American football over all other sports:
1) Set plays. Makes for interesting analysis and a good pace to the game. Basketball, hockey, soccer: it's just a bunch of guys moving around, with no one period of time much more exciting than any other.
2) Time limits. Jesus Christ, baseball drags.
3) The whole game matters. A single point in basketball means nothing, especially until the final two minutes.
4) Violence.
5) Team dynamics. Solo sports (tennis, etc.) bore me to tears.
I think you're right that this can't possibly be a fruitful discussion
I going to assume that this comment was a function of ogged's hatred for America; otherwise he'd defend the very apex of our contribution to world culture.
Why is (NBA) basketball better than pro soccer? Let me count the ways:
1. The pitch is too big in soccer. Easily my favorite thing about watching sports is seeing an athelete be atheletic. Unless it's someone like Michael Owen (sp?), I can't really get a sense of the players' speed on such a big field. Nor can I get much of a sense of the foot dexterity - the action is too spread out for the cameras.
2. It's too hard to score. It's usually easier to play defense than offence, and in both sports, bad teams minimize their disadvantage by packing in the area around the goal and making it hard to score. But there's a better chance this will be an unsuccessful strategy in basketball than in soccer. If everyone played like the Dutch (or, IIRC, various African teams), I'd seriously rethink the ordering.
3. The spectacular/unspectacular ratio of actions around the goal weighs heavily in favor of basketball. A lot of this has to simply with the number of scoring opportunities, but still. I like more payoffs for my invested time than soccer provides.
4. Any sport in which the French win the world championship is, obviously, suspect.
That's roughly off the top of my head; I'm sure there are more/better points.
The spectacular/unspectacular ratio of actions around the goal weighs heavily in favor of basketball. A lot of this has to simply with the number of scoring opportunities, but still. I like more payoffs for my invested time than soccer provides.
I think this is precisely why I like soccer--far fewer payoffs, which are therefore more intense. All the expectation and suspense you get from the build-up and the looming possibility of failure. The unbelievable excitement of a goal. Best expressed by the Telemundo guy who always screams, "Goooooooooool!"
International soccer now cards players who dive in search of a foul, even in situations where a foul would not have drawn a card. I don't know exactly what the effect has been except probably to weed out the lousy divers and reward the good divers.
You also have to account for the possibility that some of the defensive fouls that are currently called in the NBA are actually failed dives.
Posted by diddy | Link to this comment | 05-18-05 11:39 AM
It's a crying shame this didn't produce a larger comments thread, especially with your gratuitous and accurate passing slam on the wussdom that is soccer. Here's a related question: Are European B-ballers worse floppers than the domestics? I would say that, despite Divac, the answer is no.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:20 PM
You and Timmy were both absent yesterday and this fine post flopped. The comments are open, gentlemen!
I wanted to include a line about how this might be a European/White thing, but Miller and Rodman, at the very least, made that impossible.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:33 PM
Is there a carve-out for players who properly "take charges," or is it all flopping? I remember that Shane Battier become well known for "taking charges" while in college before he was good at doing much else. But he was celebrated for it.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:37 PM
i have yet to understand why tripping isn't allowed in soccer. If football teaches us anything it is that grass is to be fallen on. I say if you aim for the ball it should be ok.
Posted by joe o | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:38 PM
Is there a carve-out for players who properly "take charges,"
Of course. This is about flopping, which is faking.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:42 PM
I feel like the Jailblazers perfected the form of the flop a few years ago, back when Rasheed was pulling down more Ts in a series than most teams picked up in a season. But no individual could out-flop Divac.
Posted by Kriston | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:43 PM
Basketball is for losers.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:45 PM
...to complain about...
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:46 PM
...on opposite day.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:54 PM
...with mewling insincerity.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:57 PM
ATMS
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:57 PM
...offered exoterically to the unwashed.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 3:58 PM
...who nevertheless see its true beauty under the grime of its wandering.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:01 PM
...hands.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:02 PM
.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:04 PM
Oh my god, man, on a post on which you're already dissing soccer? Fuck you.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:08 PM
Said with love.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:09 PM
Standpipe, she must be talking to you.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:10 PM
Basketball is a lecherous sport with a heart of gold privileged by a mystic elite who disdain the losers who watch it. (Opposite day permitting.)
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:11 PM
Soccer is manifestly not for losers. No tag-backs, oggo.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:14 PM
You don't in fact prefer soccer to basketball, do you, SB?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:16 PM
I do in fact prefer soccer to basketball. I also prefer Cheetos to Cheez-Its, vermillion to puce, and throat singing to nose flute.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:32 PM
Don't try to make a joke. This is terrible.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:35 PM
No color is more sublime than vermillipuce, though.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:36 PM
Except for the vermillipuce, I'm not joking.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:38 PM
This is terrible.
I know. I'll call the minister and the florist, you do the DJ and the caterer. At least we found out before.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:43 PM
That is even less funny.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:45 PM
Oh boogers, you are so right. Sorry. (Not a joke.)
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:51 PM
No no, I'm just kidding, don't feel bad [comment composed while on the phone with the Ex].
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:53 PM
So, how about them Cubs?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 4:54 PM
Soccer is the One True Sport, after crab baiting.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 5:04 PM
Disregarding the crab baiting for a moment:
Ben, I keep getting this doppelgangish feeling about you. Perhaps we are different brains in the same vat.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 5:08 PM
That's the most romantic thing anyone's ever said to me, Standpipe.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 5:21 PM
I thought it meant we had to kill each other with our dendrites.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 5:25 PM
Erotic!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 5:30 PM
Two brain enter! One brain leave!
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 05-19-05 6:00 PM
In a brain-on-brain deathmatch, do their respective consciousnesses notice anything unusual? Wolfson-brain works its mantis technique on my cerebellum, making me teeter and knock over the ficus – that sort of thing.
Warning: Question of mild substance follows.
What would basketball partisans describe as their sport's merits relative to, say, soccer? To some degree there's no disputing taste in sports, so I guess I'm asking people to describe which aspects of sport they value over others. (For these purposes, meta-issues like which sport's referees are suckers for dives don't count.)
In other words, why is ogged so very, very disappointed in me?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 7:40 AM
SB, not so much that you don't like basketball, but that you prefer soccer, which is, somehow, even more wussified than badminton (I say this even though I have a relative who plays a fair bit of soccer and is built like a rock). I think you're right that this can't possibly be a fruitful discussion ;)
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 9:14 AM
Gothic Lolita Badminton Tournament! (Scroll down, it's near the bottom.)
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 9:17 AM
I *can* say why I like watching American football over all other sports:
1) Set plays. Makes for interesting analysis and a good pace to the game. Basketball, hockey, soccer: it's just a bunch of guys moving around, with no one period of time much more exciting than any other.
2) Time limits. Jesus Christ, baseball drags.
3) The whole game matters. A single point in basketball means nothing, especially until the final two minutes.
4) Violence.
5) Team dynamics. Solo sports (tennis, etc.) bore me to tears.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 9:30 AM
So let's review.
Basketball is played by Men who score frequently and whose moves are described in terms of sexual aggression.
Soccer is played by Wusses who give the ball a lot of head but hardly ever score.
Did I miss anything?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 9:44 AM
I think you're right that this can't possibly be a fruitful discussion
I going to assume that this comment was a function of ogged's hatred for America; otherwise he'd defend the very apex of our contribution to world culture.
Why is (NBA) basketball better than pro soccer? Let me count the ways:
1. The pitch is too big in soccer. Easily my favorite thing about watching sports is seeing an athelete be atheletic. Unless it's someone like Michael Owen (sp?), I can't really get a sense of the players' speed on such a big field. Nor can I get much of a sense of the foot dexterity - the action is too spread out for the cameras.
2. It's too hard to score. It's usually easier to play defense than offence, and in both sports, bad teams minimize their disadvantage by packing in the area around the goal and making it hard to score. But there's a better chance this will be an unsuccessful strategy in basketball than in soccer. If everyone played like the Dutch (or, IIRC, various African teams), I'd seriously rethink the ordering.
3. The spectacular/unspectacular ratio of actions around the goal weighs heavily in favor of basketball. A lot of this has to simply with the number of scoring opportunities, but still. I like more payoffs for my invested time than soccer provides.
4. Any sport in which the French win the world championship is, obviously, suspect.
That's roughly off the top of my head; I'm sure there are more/better points.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 9:48 AM
The spectacular/unspectacular ratio of actions around the goal weighs heavily in favor of basketball. A lot of this has to simply with the number of scoring opportunities, but still. I like more payoffs for my invested time than soccer provides.
I think this is precisely why I like soccer--far fewer payoffs, which are therefore more intense. All the expectation and suspense you get from the build-up and the looming possibility of failure. The unbelievable excitement of a goal. Best expressed by the Telemundo guy who always screams, "Goooooooooool!"
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 2:50 PM
Is that what you're supposed to scream?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 2:54 PM
Which makes me wonder which sport Katie prefers.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05-20-05 3:11 PM