Is it really just about conspicuous consumption for you? I quite like the atmosphere and rituals of fine dining (at least once in a while, I think I would tire of it if I did it too often; luckily I don't really have the means any more), but for me if the food isn't truly delicious it just feels like a big rip-off. And unfortunately a significant percentage of the high-end places focus more on the decor and food presentation and on providing a venue to flaunt status and to see and be seen than on turning out really great food.
I know a vegetarian restaurant-reviewer in NYC. He always brings a friend along to try the meat dishes, like the Shabbas goy, and then writes "as told to". But the other guy doesn't get a byline. So don't believe those reviews.
I have another friend who is the Shabbas goy for Amish, doing the mechanized work they're forbidden to do.
There are reasons why my Offspring is going to culinary school - not the least of which is so that his parental units will be able to get a reservation at a great restaurant in their old age. We've already scored a rare weekend table at one of LA's top restaurants on the strength of the Kid's having worked with the chef at Sundance.
Is it really just about conspicuous consumption for you?
No, not at all, I didn't mean it that way; just that where some would see my food expenses as conspicuous consumption, and I see their Beemers the same way, I want us all to be friends. I've been to very fancy places with terrific service and presentation where the food was mediocre, and I don't like that at all.
Books and CDs are the traditional ways for people who don't like conspicuous consumption to do some conspicuous consumming. I have gotten pretty addicted to fancy food since moving to san francisco from baltimore. I have lost the ability to eat bad food.
I now refuse to drink good coffee so that I can keep the ability to drink the bad coffee they serve at work.
DE, is one of those reasons that offspring enjoys the prospect of penury?
A good chef can pull in substantial money, especially here in LA. And he's a very good chef. [Not, BTW, solely a parental opinion; I've been told that by several of the high-end restaurant chefs for whom he's worked.]
You know what the chefs at Alinea, the new restaurant in Chicago that has tons and tons of popular press and trade buzz, make? Low 20s per year, even with lots of experience. And the head chef doesn't want to duplicate the traditional kitchen model (figures given the food) where one dude does the garde manger, someone does the meat, someone does this station, etc., and only one person tends the cuisine as a whole; rather the chefs are all supposed to be partners. Granted a head chef or sous chef can make good money.
Personal chefs can also pull down some serious cheese. A co-worker's boyfriend is the chef for a billionaire in the Chicago area, and he pulls down about 80K, + paid travel to do stages in France and elsewhere.
I'm with ogged on this one, though. When I had the disposable income (stupid kid), we used to hit a schmancy place at least once a month. I proposed to my wife after a twelve course tasting menu at the best restaurant in town. A truly memorable food experience is worth every dollar it costs.
That being said, my current favorite restaurant is a Vietnamese (Hmong, really) joint where I get $2 sandwiches (Bahn Mi) stuffed with pate, barbecued pork, and an assload of veggies. (It was featured on that Cook's Tour show on Food Network.)
Funny, I've been a Shabbas Goy. And Ogged is right, that food is better than most other forms of conspicuous consumption (stick by your guns man!).
Gary, there is a restaurant in DC, Cafe Atlantico, that pretty well rocks. But they've now turned one level into something ethereal: Minibar.
Here's a snippet from the Post's review: "If the Cirque du Soleil served food, this is what it would look and taste like.... . That sweet, salty and airy snack you get when you're first seated? That's caramelized pork rinds with maple syrup. What look like green marbles might show up in front of you. "Japanese baby peaches with yogurt," a cook explains. I'm told to sip my demitasse of foie gras soup like a cappuccino; it is cool on the foamy top and hot (and rich) beneath the surface. A dish created expressly for wine guru Robert Parker, one of many famous foodies to check out this novel show, is simply brilliant: The "deconstructed glass of wine" finds a translucent layer of grape gelatin decorated on the surface with pinches of mint, orange peel, vanilla -- a line of flavors commonly found in wine...."
I was reminded of it because they use pop rocks quite a bit. I don't expect, despite Ogged's help, to find anything like it in Reno.
That was considered exceptionally bad, but that seems to be how it is. My sister made much more when she was working for a catering company than when she worked for three- and four-star restaurants.
Mesa Grill was at the very top end of what I could afford in Grad school for a very special date. The food was good but not that great, though the outdoor dining part was nice. Masa? I've been away to long.
But the part about the Sushi Nazi reminded my of the Sushi place near my Dad in Del Boca Vista Florida. The all you can eat Sushi option was accompanied with some very strict rules about sharing and how many soft shell crab rolls and other higher priced items were included. Not only was there no carry out, but if you didn't eat something you ordered, you were charged a la carte for it. My father, a man of a certain generation, refers to the place as "Bridge over the River Kwai Sushi."
The last time I was there, however, we arrived while a group of rather portly persons who could best be termed "all you can eat specialists" were gorging themselves in a way that was most uncongenial. And the rules suddenly seemed to make sense.
I confess that I have, more than once, hidden Sushi under the table at an all you can eat sushi place which claims to charge extra for unfinished food.
I am just a lurker, but had to chime in....I agree completely with Ogged on this one (a bit to my surprise). Food is so much more important than cars. But then, even with serious grape, a dinner is a dinner (not likely more than 4 figures), not a Ferrari. So it lets us be like the monkey king while the tiger is away.
Anyway. "That's not cooking, that's art." is surely a 4 1/2 star comment. However, "that's not fucking, that's art," would be a full 5 star comment.
2 Michelin stars: "That's not cooking, that's art!"
3 Michelin stars: "That's not art, that's fucking!"
Not that I've ever been anywhere with any Michelin stars. I'm with Ogged about the expensive dining. Masa's too rich for my blood. I think there's diminishing marginal utility. How good could that food possibly be?
Still, I'm happy to blow $300 on a dinner for 2, provided it's a very special occasion. That's worth more to me than an extra pair of fancy shoes, 12 new hardback books, or 15 delivered pizzas.
Wait. Is one of these restaurants charging $350 per person prix fixe? I missed that part. I thought the $350 was for Massa, not Masa. There is some real cost benefit analysis to be done. I.e. that's dinner for five at Minibar, etc.
And does anyone think it wasn't the fall of Flay on Iron Chef that did him in? If there was any doing in at all, I'd bet it was because he appeared on TV, and that means the resaurant must be full of bridge and tunnell people.
Although I've had some damned good Iron chef made sushi before what's his name left NY to go to Philly. ( Wow, I like to eat out a lot)
FWIW, the 12-course tasting menu, with accompanying 7-course wine flight, at the best restaurant in town (albeit not the most expensive), for two, with tip, rang in at around $375.
I'm kidding about being right and others being fools: to each his own conspicuous consumption.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 5:19 PM
What about spending too much money on absolutely everything?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:07 PM
what is it to "forbad" someone?
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:10 PM
Forbad.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:12 PM
jesus haploid christ, i've been schooled.
Anyway. "That's not cooking, that's art." is surely a 4 1/2 star comment. However, "that's not fucking, that's art," would be a full 5 star comment.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:17 PM
Is it really just about conspicuous consumption for you? I quite like the atmosphere and rituals of fine dining (at least once in a while, I think I would tire of it if I did it too often; luckily I don't really have the means any more), but for me if the food isn't truly delicious it just feels like a big rip-off. And unfortunately a significant percentage of the high-end places focus more on the decor and food presentation and on providing a venue to flaunt status and to see and be seen than on turning out really great food.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:22 PM
I know a vegetarian restaurant-reviewer in NYC. He always brings a friend along to try the meat dishes, like the Shabbas goy, and then writes "as told to". But the other guy doesn't get a byline. So don't believe those reviews.
I have another friend who is the Shabbas goy for Amish, doing the mechanized work they're forbidden to do.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:22 PM
There are reasons why my Offspring is going to culinary school - not the least of which is so that his parental units will be able to get a reservation at a great restaurant in their old age. We've already scored a rare weekend table at one of LA's top restaurants on the strength of the Kid's having worked with the chef at Sundance.
Posted by DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:24 PM
Is it really just about conspicuous consumption for you?
No, not at all, I didn't mean it that way; just that where some would see my food expenses as conspicuous consumption, and I see their Beemers the same way, I want us all to be friends. I've been to very fancy places with terrific service and presentation where the food was mediocre, and I don't like that at all.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:26 PM
DE, is one of those reasons that offspring enjoys the prospect of penury?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:28 PM
Books and CDs are the traditional ways for people who don't like conspicuous consumption to do some conspicuous consumming. I have gotten pretty addicted to fancy food since moving to san francisco from baltimore. I have lost the ability to eat bad food.
I now refuse to drink good coffee so that I can keep the ability to drink the bad coffee they serve at work.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:46 PM
DE, is one of those reasons that offspring enjoys the prospect of penury?
A good chef can pull in substantial money, especially here in LA. And he's a very good chef. [Not, BTW, solely a parental opinion; I've been told that by several of the high-end restaurant chefs for whom he's worked.]
Posted by DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 6:57 PM
You know what the chefs at Alinea, the new restaurant in Chicago that has tons and tons of popular press and trade buzz, make? Low 20s per year, even with lots of experience. And the head chef doesn't want to duplicate the traditional kitchen model (figures given the food) where one dude does the garde manger, someone does the meat, someone does this station, etc., and only one person tends the cuisine as a whole; rather the chefs are all supposed to be partners. Granted a head chef or sous chef can make good money.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 7:21 PM
Personal chefs can also pull down some serious cheese. A co-worker's boyfriend is the chef for a billionaire in the Chicago area, and he pulls down about 80K, + paid travel to do stages in France and elsewhere.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 7:23 PM
I'm with ogged on this one, though. When I had the disposable income (stupid kid), we used to hit a schmancy place at least once a month. I proposed to my wife after a twelve course tasting menu at the best restaurant in town. A truly memorable food experience is worth every dollar it costs.
That being said, my current favorite restaurant is a Vietnamese (Hmong, really) joint where I get $2 sandwiches (Bahn Mi) stuffed with pate, barbecued pork, and an assload of veggies. (It was featured on that Cook's Tour show on Food Network.)
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 7:27 PM
I don't know if you caught this post or not, but either way, feel free to comment (anyone).
Posted by Gary Farber | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 7:29 PM
Low 20s per year, even with lots of experience.
Then they're getting screwed [or scrod]. The Offspring makes the equivalent of more than that now [he only works part time] and he's still in school.
Posted by DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 8:37 PM
Funny, I've been a Shabbas Goy. And Ogged is right, that food is better than most other forms of conspicuous consumption (stick by your guns man!).
Gary, there is a restaurant in DC, Cafe Atlantico, that pretty well rocks. But they've now turned one level into something ethereal: Minibar.
Here's a snippet from the Post's review: "If the Cirque du Soleil served food, this is what it would look and taste like.... . That sweet, salty and airy snack you get when you're first seated? That's caramelized pork rinds with maple syrup. What look like green marbles might show up in front of you. "Japanese baby peaches with yogurt," a cook explains. I'm told to sip my demitasse of foie gras soup like a cappuccino; it is cool on the foamy top and hot (and rich) beneath the surface. A dish created expressly for wine guru Robert Parker, one of many famous foodies to check out this novel show, is simply brilliant: The "deconstructed glass of wine" finds a translucent layer of grape gelatin decorated on the surface with pinches of mint, orange peel, vanilla -- a line of flavors commonly found in wine...."
I was reminded of it because they use pop rocks quite a bit. I don't expect, despite Ogged's help, to find anything like it in Reno.
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 9:25 PM
That was considered exceptionally bad, but that seems to be how it is. My sister made much more when she was working for a catering company than when she worked for three- and four-star restaurants.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 9:38 PM
Mesa Grill was at the very top end of what I could afford in Grad school for a very special date. The food was good but not that great, though the outdoor dining part was nice. Masa? I've been away to long.
But the part about the Sushi Nazi reminded my of the Sushi place near my Dad in Del Boca Vista Florida. The all you can eat Sushi option was accompanied with some very strict rules about sharing and how many soft shell crab rolls and other higher priced items were included. Not only was there no carry out, but if you didn't eat something you ordered, you were charged a la carte for it. My father, a man of a certain generation, refers to the place as "Bridge over the River Kwai Sushi."
The last time I was there, however, we arrived while a group of rather portly persons who could best be termed "all you can eat specialists" were gorging themselves in a way that was most uncongenial. And the rules suddenly seemed to make sense.
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 9:40 PM
I confess that I have, more than once, hidden Sushi under the table at an all you can eat sushi place which claims to charge extra for unfinished food.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-31-05 10:04 PM
I ate at Minibar in DC a few months ago and it was pretty fucking sublime.
Posted by jw | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 7:41 AM
I am just a lurker, but had to chime in....I agree completely with Ogged on this one (a bit to my surprise). Food is so much more important than cars. But then, even with serious grape, a dinner is a dinner (not likely more than 4 figures), not a Ferrari. So it lets us be like the monkey king while the tiger is away.
Posted by Cat | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 5:08 PM
2 Michelin stars: "That's not cooking, that's art!"
3 Michelin stars: "That's not art, that's fucking!"
Not that I've ever been anywhere with any Michelin stars. I'm with Ogged about the expensive dining. Masa's too rich for my blood. I think there's diminishing marginal utility. How good could that food possibly be?
Still, I'm happy to blow $300 on a dinner for 2, provided it's a very special occasion. That's worth more to me than an extra pair of fancy shoes, 12 new hardback books, or 15 delivered pizzas.
Posted by Lindsay Beyerstein | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 5:30 PM
I'm totally agreeing with you agreeing with me: Masa, at $400-$500 per person is just too damn much money, but otherwise, yeah.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 5:34 PM
Oh, and Lindsay, I know I don't link much, since we're doing mostly homegrown cock jokes/life sucks posts, but your blog rocks.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 5:39 PM
Wait. Is one of these restaurants charging $350 per person prix fixe? I missed that part. I thought the $350 was for Massa, not Masa. There is some real cost benefit analysis to be done. I.e. that's dinner for five at Minibar, etc.
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 6:01 PM
Check out the prices near the bottom.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 6:03 PM
And does anyone think it wasn't the fall of Flay on Iron Chef that did him in? If there was any doing in at all, I'd bet it was because he appeared on TV, and that means the resaurant must be full of bridge and tunnell people.
Although I've had some damned good Iron chef made sushi before what's his name left NY to go to Philly. ( Wow, I like to eat out a lot)
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 6:12 PM
Thanks, Ogged.
Posted by lindsay Beyerstein | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 6:22 PM
$500 for Dinner? Yeah, well, that's not happening anytime soon.
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 6:53 PM
Apiece.
Christ.
FWIW, the 12-course tasting menu, with accompanying 7-course wine flight, at the best restaurant in town (albeit not the most expensive), for two, with tip, rang in at around $375.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 8:47 PM
So, you eat dinner pretty late then?
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 06- 1-05 8:47 PM