an invisibulator, or in the alternative, a device for crushing ice for use in fancy crushed-ice drinks -- but it's a pipe-dream that modern science will never achieve.
That's sensible, text. Then one day, Kyl/e M could be Deep Throat! My latest suggestion was this:
Find a cute woman at the airport, point out KM, tell her that he wants to talk to her, but feels skeezy about using his celebrity to approach strange women. Hang back, watch the fun.
My friend is too nice to pull that, but I think it would be hilarious.
I think the weirdness of celebrities being interested in sports stems from the fact that an actor's fame is often free-floating, or connected to intangibles like charisma, whereas a sports star's is more directly linked to ability. So an actor being interested in sports is like an indirect comment on his own celebrity.
6: I'm not sure I get that. Presumably, he's not watching golf because the golfers are famous. At least for my friend, it seems strange that someone famous would have so much time to spend doing something so mundane.
This puts him in the position of a fan. He is someone who has fans, who is, in this instance, a fan. And he is, furthermore, a fan of something that can be measured.
Ok, clearly it strikes us a little odd that someone who has fans is a fan. But while I can see the difference between the kinds of celebrity, it doesn't seem salient to me. Does anyone really think, "Hey, that's weird, a celebrity whose fame depends on something intangible is watching a celebrity whose fame is based on something measurable"? It's just the fame, isn't it?
I think that what is odd about a celebrity genuinely liking sports -- as opposed to just going to games in order to be seen -- is that those of us who are really into sports kind of suspect that, if we weren't such losers, we'd have better things to do with our time and energy, like travel to interesting places or talk to girls.
I think it's that we all sort of assume that famous people are all part of the same click. If he was really that interested in golf, he would just be there, hanging out as a celebrity caddy or soemthing. Or, perhaps, his watching the golf game should be like us watching a high school basketball game; and maybe it is, and we just can't tell.
Dude, watching sports is like, the second greatest good, after playing sports that people watch. I was reading through the Normblog profiles one recent sleepless night, and person after person answer the "thing people like that you don't care about" question with "sports." This is blogdom's idiosyncratic pathology. Sports are good, you should watch more of them.
Apparently I am, in fact, thinking on a higher plane. Or on some plane of my own. I think this is something actors notice about themselves, though, that they don't hit home runs, that they're dependent on reviews and the zeitgeist and the fickle fickle public, &c. I think this feeling would especially surround someone with the air of has-been--who has been largely forgotten by the public. What athletes have is somehow more true.
Was "Sports are good, you should watch more of them." addressed to me? Trust me, it would be hard for me to watch more sports. My only point was that sometimes I can't help thinking that if I liked my life more, I wouldn't be living vicariously through Rip Hamilton right now. But that does beg the question I admit.
Ok, seriously, I think watching sports is great, but it can surely be pathetic--but I'm not sure the pathos is measured in hours or even the intensity of one's interest. I'd guess it's pathetic if the watcher is already pathetic.
You know, someone I was dating actually offered to reset the Tivo while I watched a ballgame, and I turned it down. I think, like the two-woman fantasy, it's a dream that lives best as a dream.
Maybe you're right about what the actor thinks, ac. I don't know any actors well enough. (Interesting how you use the word "true:" independent, grounded.) I suppose the fame could be salient to them.
You know that Far Side strip about the collision of herpetology and boating, in which the panel is divided into two, diagonally, and each sub-panel has a dude saying something like "she's a beaut, Norm. What is she, a 24-footer?"? Well, there's a web page that shows jargonic confluence like that, except in real life.
One of the most interesting, because it had to do with the same phenomenon observed from two different perspectives which nevertheless came up with the same term to describe the relevant aspect for that perspective concerned inbreeding. Y'see, in the first place, it makes the family tree, if it's carried out along multiple generations, a mess of crisscrossing lines, such that you can practically turn it sideways and read it as legibly as when it's rightside up (and that can even help you get a perspective on relations that would otherwise be obscured). It also makes it harder for geneticists to track emergence of traits and ancestry using DNA, because of the limited pool of contributors. (I didn't understand that part as well, I have to confess, and metafilter's timing out for me AOTW.) Here's the thing: both genealogists and geneticists refer to what's produced—the tree in the former and the DNA record in the latter case—as a "palimpcest". Neat, huh?
I don't know, ac, but they did all seem delighted to have the opportunity to correct me.
It's possible that I have been trolled, I have lost, and I should just have a nice day, though.
Every time I've gone, I've had a stunningly large number of conversations start with some variation of: "Ya de whitest mon on de beach, chief. Yah lay down in de sand, yeh disappear. Dey hide yah from de sun back 'ome?"
Well, I've only been once, and what I remember best is that once off my campus, the laws of the universe reasserted themselves, and the philosopher-sized guys from schools I'd never heard of got all the female attention and I got very, very drunk.
Okay, really not interested in reading 102 comments before commenting (or, why I mostly don't comment here any more, especially knowing most comments will be one-liners), but I used to hear KM anecdotes several times a week back in 1983 when one of my housemates spent a lot of time working on sets at the University of Washington Drama School and bitching about that sonofabitch lead actor she'd mention by name each time being so obnoxious all the time.
However, gosh, how could you not give him due credit for his work in Showgirls?
I could ask what's up with the slashes, but I expect it's another local reference I missed.
Gary Farber, we remember you fondly! Seems ol' KM has settled down into a sedate life of golf-watching. I put the slashes in out of kindness, so that google will not find him here, and he won't find himself being talked about.
Maybe you're right about what the actor thinks, ac. I don't know any actors well enough.
So I come late to another interesting discussion. Sigh.
Actors think "Four hours to kill in a friggin' airport. I suppose I can watch the PGA." Other actors think "Not many people know how much of an actor's time is spent sitting around and waiting, killing time."
Wouldn't it be better to de-Google by izzle talk? Kizzyle McLizzachlan? (Also, I think slashing "Kyl/e M" was a bit much. And the junior senator from Arizona is going to be very disappointed when he finds this page.)
What gadget would you most like to have that you don't currently have?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 3:44 PM
What you humans call a heart.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 3:45 PM
an invisibulator, or in the alternative, a device for crushing ice for use in fancy crushed-ice drinks -- but it's a pipe-dream that modern science will never achieve.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:03 PM
ogged -- your buddy must find a way to make Mr. MacLachlan his new best friend through shared mutual interest.
Since Twin Peaks he played the underperforming fellow on Sex & the City -- that's something.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:05 PM
That's sensible, text. Then one day, Kyl/e M could be Deep Throat! My latest suggestion was this:
My friend is too nice to pull that, but I think it would be hilarious.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:12 PM
I think the weirdness of celebrities being interested in sports stems from the fact that an actor's fame is often free-floating, or connected to intangibles like charisma, whereas a sports star's is more directly linked to ability. So an actor being interested in sports is like an indirect comment on his own celebrity.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:13 PM
A much better icebreaker would be:
"You kicked serious ass in _The Hidden_, man."
Posted by rufus | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:18 PM
"I thought you were really well cast in The Flinstones."
Posted by Tarrou | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:28 PM
"I love The McLachlan Group!"
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:32 PM
When are you going to reform the Mahavishnu Orchestra?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:36 PM
6: I'm not sure I get that. Presumably, he's not watching golf because the golfers are famous. At least for my friend, it seems strange that someone famous would have so much time to spend doing something so mundane.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:39 PM
ac is thinking on a higher plane.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:40 PM
But he's oohing and aahing at their ability.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:41 PM
This puts him in the position of a fan. He is someone who has fans, who is, in this instance, a fan. And he is, furthermore, a fan of something that can be measured.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:44 PM
"Remind me. Was Dennis Hopper naked in "Blue Velvet"?"
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:47 PM
Ok, clearly it strikes us a little odd that someone who has fans is a fan. But while I can see the difference between the kinds of celebrity, it doesn't seem salient to me. Does anyone really think, "Hey, that's weird, a celebrity whose fame depends on something intangible is watching a celebrity whose fame is based on something measurable"? It's just the fame, isn't it?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:47 PM
Talent can't be measured out in drops, man.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:47 PM
I think that what is odd about a celebrity genuinely liking sports -- as opposed to just going to games in order to be seen -- is that those of us who are really into sports kind of suspect that, if we weren't such losers, we'd have better things to do with our time and energy, like travel to interesting places or talk to girls.
Posted by pjs | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:48 PM
I think it's that we all sort of assume that famous people are all part of the same click. If he was really that interested in golf, he would just be there, hanging out as a celebrity caddy or soemthing. Or, perhaps, his watching the golf game should be like us watching a high school basketball game; and maybe it is, and we just can't tell.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:50 PM
clique, bitch!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:51 PM
Dude, watching sports is like, the second greatest good, after playing sports that people watch. I was reading through the Normblog profiles one recent sleepless night, and person after person answer the "thing people like that you don't care about" question with "sports." This is blogdom's idiosyncratic pathology. Sports are good, you should watch more of them.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:51 PM
Agree with #21 completely. Except it's third. After resetting the Tivo.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:53 PM
If you can reset the Tivo while watching sports--which, let's admit, we've all tried to do--then you are truly alive.
Who wants a date?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:57 PM
Apparently I am, in fact, thinking on a higher plane. Or on some plane of my own. I think this is something actors notice about themselves, though, that they don't hit home runs, that they're dependent on reviews and the zeitgeist and the fickle fickle public, &c. I think this feeling would especially surround someone with the air of has-been--who has been largely forgotten by the public. What athletes have is somehow more true.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:57 PM
What about playing sports that no one watches? Is that not the higher form of artistry?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:57 PM
Ogged,
Was "Sports are good, you should watch more of them." addressed to me? Trust me, it would be hard for me to watch more sports. My only point was that sometimes I can't help thinking that if I liked my life more, I wouldn't be living vicariously through Rip Hamilton right now. But that does beg the question I admit.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:59 PM
Tripp? 'zat you?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 4:59 PM
What sports are you thinking of, Benji?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:00 PM
It was addressed to anyone tempted to listen to you. I know you're a fan. You should live vicariously through Ben Wallace though.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:00 PM
Sorry! 26 was me.
Posted by pjs | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:00 PM
Ok, seriously, I think watching sports is great, but it can surely be pathetic--but I'm not sure the pathos is measured in hours or even the intensity of one's interest. I'd guess it's pathetic if the watcher is already pathetic.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:02 PM
You know, someone I was dating actually offered to reset the Tivo while I watched a ballgame, and I turned it down. I think, like the two-woman fantasy, it's a dream that lives best as a dream.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:02 PM
28: I may have been thinking of Balzac's The Unknown Masterpiece, or at least, what I thought that book would be like before I read it.
Or perhaps any sport, really, at the amateur level.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:04 PM
Maybe you're right about what the actor thinks, ac. I don't know any actors well enough. (Interesting how you use the word "true:" independent, grounded.) I suppose the fame could be salient to them.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:04 PM
You're a decent guy, Timbot. Or there's some other, more disturbing, explanation.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:05 PM
But what about the important issue -- does Kyle look hot? How about a cameraphone snapshot?
Posted by profgrrrrl | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:06 PM
(Interesting how you use the word "true:" independent, grounded.)
Like metal. There is no good or bad metal, only TRUE and FALSE metal. Death to false metal!
I highly recommend reading the section on truth and falsity in metal here. (In the section about Death Church, the first band.)
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:06 PM
All I got about his looks was "shoulder length hair and just barely tinted glasses."
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:07 PM
33- You thought the Balzac would be a meditation on the intrinsic quality of an artwork, separate from how it was received?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:11 PM
[redacted]
Posted by [redacted] | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:12 PM
Sort of—the image reflected in my mind's reading glasses was of a book in which no one ever knew about the painting.
I might also have been thinking about the hunger artist, but then he did put on a show, even if no one understood that he just wasn't hungry.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:13 PM
You can't trust people who wear tinted glasses.
Posted by profgrrrrl | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:15 PM
We're agreed on that, PG, but the rules might be bendable for celebrities.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:18 PM
Sometimes dyslexics wear tinted glasses as a means of combating the effects of dyslexia. Why do you hate dyslexics, pg?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:20 PM
Ok, ogged, but (related to link) when you see a white male with a white van, do you immediately think "serial killer"?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:23 PM
Generally I think "white guy"--->"serial killer." I'm often pleasantly surprised.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:25 PM
I am sitting in an airport without either Kyle McLachlan or tinted glasses. Nor is there golf. Please, entertain me.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:25 PM
It'll cost you 8 slols.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:29 PM
I can do it for seven.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:30 PM
Go to it, Ben.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:31 PM
Dance, monkeys! I been saving my slols for ages. You can't imagine how difficult it is to exchange Moldavian currency.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:31 PM
You know that Far Side strip about the collision of herpetology and boating, in which the panel is divided into two, diagonally, and each sub-panel has a dude saying something like "she's a beaut, Norm. What is she, a 24-footer?"? Well, there's a web page that shows jargonic confluence like that, except in real life.
One of the most interesting, because it had to do with the same phenomenon observed from two different perspectives which nevertheless came up with the same term to describe the relevant aspect for that perspective concerned inbreeding. Y'see, in the first place, it makes the family tree, if it's carried out along multiple generations, a mess of crisscrossing lines, such that you can practically turn it sideways and read it as legibly as when it's rightside up (and that can even help you get a perspective on relations that would otherwise be obscured). It also makes it harder for geneticists to track emergence of traits and ancestry using DNA, because of the limited pool of contributors. (I didn't understand that part as well, I have to confess, and metafilter's timing out for me AOTW.) Here's the thing: both genealogists and geneticists refer to what's produced—the tree in the former and the DNA record in the latter case—as a "palimpcest". Neat, huh?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:32 PM
Except it's spelt palimpsest.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:35 PM
Psst. I don't think that's how you spell "palimpsest." Otherwise, worth 20 slols, easy.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:35 PM
What are you, Wolfson's shill?
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:36 PM
Jinx, you're to be drawn and quartered!
That's how I always played anyway.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:36 PM
Palimpsest, chimpy.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:37 PM
I'm rubber & you're glue so something or other.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:37 PM
Dammit.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:38 PM
So your jinx bounces off me and sticks to apostropher.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:38 PM
You people are fools. Incidentally.
It's "palimpcest" because it's a palimpsest caused by incest. Hello.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:38 PM
No fair. That's like making up a jargon term for giving in really graciously, and spelling it "supercede."
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:39 PM
It's a friggin' pun-based joke, people. Sheesh.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:40 PM
I'm aware that it isn't funny.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:40 PM
So was that.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:40 PM
That isn't the point.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:40 PM
Did they really not get it?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:40 PM
I have very emphatic feelings on the subject.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:41 PM
I confess I did not get the joke. Worth 25 slols!
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:41 PM
Yes, I really didn't. Can't speak for ogged or apo.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:41 PM
I don't know, ac, but they did all seem delighted to have the opportunity to correct me.
It's possible that I have been trolled, I have lost, and I should just have a nice day, though.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:42 PM
Jinx again!
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:42 PM
You seriously misoveresitimate my attention span if you think I can read a comment that long with any care.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:42 PM
You could have read it on waste with that much care, then. *sniff*.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:43 PM
OOps. "I don't know" above was supposed to link here.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:44 PM
Okay, I re-read it. It was much nicer now that I know I missed the point the first time. Humility must improve comprehension.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:45 PM
Great. When can I expect those slols?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:45 PM
All my slols are belong to you.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:46 PM
I really thought there was a whole other layer to the joke, that they were pretending not to get it just to frustrate you.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:46 PM
No, no, that imputes a wonderful degree of cleverness and malice to me I cannot honestly claim.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:47 PM
And I was impressed that they were doing it in concert.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:47 PM
They haven't the cunning.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:48 PM
It's true, we want cunning.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:49 PM
Airport observation: the trend among young persons of wearing shorts emblazoned with slogans on the derriere is irredeemably unfortunate.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 5:59 PM
Phenomenon blogged here.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:02 PM
Don't me rehash the post about how stupid I am now, ac.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:04 PM
What?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:07 PM
?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:09 PM
There's a word missing.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:10 PM
It's possible that I have been trolled
It's possible. But not this time. The wolfson wins again and again. Yo black, some of you are all in.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:10 PM
Without it you sound sort of...Jamaican.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:10 PM
It just proves my point, y'know?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:12 PM
Now that I'm imagining Ogged talking with a Jamaican accent, everything just got much funnier.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:12 PM
Clearly I should just read the back numbers.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:13 PM
Dat Swede, she nuh wan' none dis Ogged.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:13 PM
This may come in handy.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:23 PM
There's way too much English in the world.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:24 PM
This may come in handy.
wan' = waan
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:27 PM
Anybody else here been to Jamaica?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:34 PM
Yep.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:36 PM
Every time I've gone, I've had a stunningly large number of conversations start with some variation of: "Ya de whitest mon on de beach, chief. Yah lay down in de sand, yeh disappear. Dey hide yah from de sun back 'ome?"
My complexion seemed to amuse them to no end.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:40 PM
Well, I've only been once, and what I remember best is that once off my campus, the laws of the universe reasserted themselves, and the philosopher-sized guys from schools I'd never heard of got all the female attention and I got very, very drunk.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 6:45 PM
Okay, really not interested in reading 102 comments before commenting (or, why I mostly don't comment here any more, especially knowing most comments will be one-liners), but I used to hear KM anecdotes several times a week back in 1983 when one of my housemates spent a lot of time working on sets at the University of Washington Drama School and bitching about that sonofabitch lead actor she'd mention by name each time being so obnoxious all the time.
However, gosh, how could you not give him due credit for his work in Showgirls?
I could ask what's up with the slashes, but I expect it's another local reference I missed.
Posted by Gary Farber | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 8:34 PM
Gary Farber, we remember you fondly! Seems ol' KM has settled down into a sedate life of golf-watching. I put the slashes in out of kindness, so that google will not find him here, and he won't find himself being talked about.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 8:37 PM
I take non-offended exception to the one-liners thing: when the topic is serious, smart discussion happens between the liners.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 8:39 PM
I think, like the two-woman fantasy, it's a dream that lives best as a dream.
This is a complete misconception. The two-woman fantasy is a dream that's best lived. I assure you.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 9:14 PM
Second.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 9:24 PM
Seriously, a whole plane schlep later and all you did was eleven comments? People.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-16-05 9:35 PM
Maybe you're right about what the actor thinks, ac. I don't know any actors well enough.
So I come late to another interesting discussion. Sigh.
Actors think "Four hours to kill in a friggin' airport. I suppose I can watch the PGA." Other actors think "Not many people know how much of an actor's time is spent sitting around and waiting, killing time."
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06-17-05 8:35 AM
Wouldn't it be better to de-Google by izzle talk? Kizzyle McLizzachlan? (Also, I think slashing "Kyl/e M" was a bit much. And the junior senator from Arizona is going to be very disappointed when he finds this page.)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-17-05 12:17 PM