Not at all! I've just never mentioned it here, is all. I'd wondered if anyone was aware of it.
Me and Ryan Davis started StageSpace about nine months ago, and we currently have an avid following of almost exclusively NYU theater majors, so we sort of tailor our writing accordingly. Although Ryan (whom I met on the Dean campaign, interestingly enough) tries to slip in the political on occasion.
In spite of a totally crappy interface and site design, and intermittent posts which are shoddily written at best, we've managed to at least double our growth every month since we launched.
If it means anything, one of the cast members, John Fico, was in the workshop of a show that I wrote called THE GOLDEN CITY. If you happen to mention it to her.
My head is still sort of exploding from the smallness of the world.
What, still? That's one slow explosion.
At first the other office workers didn't notice anything. "Joe looks a little more stressed than usual" was the first thought they had, noticing the bulging veins in his forehead and neck—if indeed they took any notice of him at all. But then the skin seemed to stretch and split, the way a tomato plunged into boiling water, its insides expanding under the influence of the heat, will eventually crack its peel and expose the red flesh underneath, and he stumbled and fell, the thump attracting notice from nearby cubicles. He got to his feet slowly. "I'm ... I'm ok." Rubbing his forehead as he rose he felt the wet blood and pulled his hands away. "oh, shi..." He couldn't close his teeth to finish the word as the building pressure pushed outward at the bones of his skull. Then the first shattering crack, and a gobbets of brain described slow, gentle arcs through the air, a fine mist of blood remaining behind.
Do you mean that the analysis will be on those efforts of ours to determine what brings us here, or that it will be on our efforts generally, with an eye to such a determination?
I find the proximity of "shattering crack" to "slow, gentle arcs" rather jarring. Also, even if his head is slow to explode, once it does the brain matter will rapidly settle into the strands of the carpet.
I was imagining that the whole explosion would take place in slow motion. It would be a little bit of surreality in an otherwise dull day at the office. Everything would be moving at the speed of life except fragments of Joe's skull, brain, etc.
It's because ogged is clearly a maturing Mr. Ripley. There is almost nothing too depraved to be mentioned here that will not be accepted with a certain detached grace.
Y'know, I think Michael has a blog, but as he's never linked it to his name (and, if I'm correct in my assignation, it hasn't been updated since the end of May), I'll leave it up to him to decide whether the linkage will remain secret.
Also, how is it that Tripp and Mitch Mills don't have blogs of their own? It just seems...wrong, somehow.
When I used instant messenger, I used to correct myself all the time. This is before I had ever heard of Ben Wolfson. This internalization might be overstated.
I just don't have the stamina for these threads lately. I am still a regular reader. How could I ever foresake Unfogged, after all the wonderful food I have eaten with its members and regular commenters?
Whoa, the much lampooned Joe is "theatre folk." It really is a small world. I'm all, like, theatre-happy because a great show is coming to town and BY GOD I want to be in it!
What gave you the idea I was a child prodigy, is what I wondered at the time and didn't ask?
At the time I vaguely recalled that these comments were infested with genius-like people and when you mentioned Mozart (a child prodigy who blossomed) I naturally assumed you were thinking of your own situation. That is what people do, mostly. Think about themselves.
Were you a child prodigy, or were you simply playing one to complete my joke?
I regret to say that I was referred to as such on more than one occasion. But I was not what one normally associates with the word "prodigy." All I did was write a musical at age 16 that someone in Los Angeles thought was good enough to be produced. It was a very nice experience and some people said some very nice things.
MW -- thanks. If nothing else, it gave me years-worth of confidence in my abilities as a writer, which I don't know that I would have had otherwise. At least, not enough to force me to keep plugging away at it for as long as I have. It has only been very recently that I've gotten some more validation in that arena. Not counting the Howard Dean business.
Geez, Joe, that is awesome. I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Great expectations can be great burdens.
No, I had no evidence of your past other than what appears here. I like to think I'm pretty good at sizing people up but I'm full of it.
And eb, that link was great. Too true.
The show is "Urinetown" which is finally getting off tour and the rights are coming available. It is "amateur hour" around these parts but people are still talented and I'm very excited about the possibilities.
With Hubbert's peak and all I'm starting to think this is the right show at the right time.
Comes at just the wrong time, as I havent posted for a week owing to pressure of work yadda yaddada.... maybe I ll be shamed into posting tomorrow.
In re the name: It all got started in a real hurry (I forget why now) and once youve got a handle you're kind of stuck with it. I'm open to suggestions though!
The entropy joke about messy rooms seemed to be a staple of my junior high/high school physical science classes (I seem to remember hearing it from more than one teacher.)
Actually, there is a natural reading of 81 on which it would be false if he had cited the laws of thermodynamics, even if he had called them 'Newton's laws'. (sticks tongue out)
Because an object at rest tends to remain at rest (first law) and the force required to move an object is proportional to the mass (second law) it will take me more effort than it is worth to clean up the back seat of the car.
Well, if I say, "Our smartest senator, Rick Santorum, says that gay marriage is like man-on-dog sex," and you say, "Weiner cited our smartest Senator as saying that gay marriage is like man-on-dog sex," what you say is wrong, because I didn't cite our smartest Senator. I cited one of the dumbest ones, even if I called him the smartest one. What you have to say is something like, "Weiner, calling him 'our smartest Senator', cited Rick Santorum as saying that gay marriage is like man-on-dog sex." That's what Ken Taylor, chair of Stanford's philosophy department, calls a fulsomede re ascription (pdf link).
If you say "Weiner said that our smartest senator..." then you yourself are committing yourself to the idea that whoever I talked about is our smartest senator.
(Most of the time--Taylor seems to think that happens whenever the description is in subject position, but I disagree. I can say "Nutbar 73 says the WMDs are in Syria" without committing myself to the existence of WMDs. I haven't reread the Taylor so I may be misinterpreting/misquoting.)
So, analogously, if he said "Newton's laws of entropy mean I can't clean this up" you might be wrong to say "He cited Newton's laws...." because that commits you to the idea that the law cited actually was Newton's.
I need to read the Taylor when I'm coherent and able to string more than 0,75 thoughts together at once. Thanks for the link, though.
My guts tell me the "Nutbar" interpretation is correct. My reaction was to the notion that Newton got steamy on Entropy, so i guess I was reacting to the incorrectness of "He cited Newtons Laws...", no?
109: no but you might be able to measure the hotttness by measuring the cavity radiation levels.
Further, if it were a black body, one could infer that in sunlight the messyness (number of accessible microstates of the occupants) would rise leading to explosive tendencies within unless release mechanisms were available.
It was best when we all realized that the Schrödinger reference was so obvious it needn't be made, because then we could admire each others' restraint and awareness of our general store of knowledge.
So do we really want to move to the accessible states of vibration of a cat in closed cadillac with black curtains and certain cavity emissions? Cos if so, we need to talk about s and p bonding shells.
I've never been a regular, but I will say that reading all of these comment threads can be pretty exhausting. Contributing meaningfully could be real work. How do you people get anything real done? Just reading blogs is such a time suck.
Abby, I think the clue is in the second sentence, no?
For my part I simply block my time and thank the laws of motion and errr yes, well thermodynamics actually, that I live in a space in which I can comment either early in the morning on stuff which happened in the previous evening, or late at night on threads moving in the afternoon.
Ralph, these are the blogs of the regular commenters. You last commented here on April 17. I count 23 comments from you over the life of the blog. Most of the regulars leave that many comments each day. Anyway, haven't you heard of unrequited love?
Oh, so comments by busy people like Tim Burke, et al, don't count into Cliopatria's total? It's probably time for Cliopatria to drop Unfogged from its blogroll anyway.
Ok, I didn't count Tim. That's 30 more. Still, you're not seriously suggesting that you guys are regulars here, are you?
Now I want to link to Cliopatria, but don't want to seem to be giving in to the de-linking threat. What's your face-saving solution, Mr. Elder Statesman?
It's not a threat, Ogged. We've increasingly become the hub for history blogging. It's a growing part of the academic blogosphere. We count over 150 history blogs on our History Blogroll now. In the long run, at least, that will probably have implications for how our regular Blogroll looks.
There's some good theater in the Twin Cities, I hear.
Yes, I have to agree with that.
Abby,
How do you people get anything real done?
Speaking for myself I've always been a fast reader. Probably a very fast reader, but unfogged slows me down because of the references, which I like. My worktime schedule is pretty much periods of concentration with periods of waiting. Computers are too slow! I keep my off work activities away from a computer, so my contributions here are 9-5.
Ralph and ogged,
Neediness is unattractive. Do what you want to do.
It's ok guys, Ralph and I have a long history of him badgering me about the blogroll and me refusing in mock-friendly tones. Ralph, given his advanced age, might not remember those past episodes, and might be playing this out each time with the thrill of the new, but it amounts to the same thing.
I've never been a regular, but I will say that reading all of these comment threads can be pretty exhausting. Contributing meaningfully could be real work. How do you people get anything real done? Just reading blogs is such a time suck.
The thing to realize, Abby, is that eventually you don't read any other blogs.
Whoa. You found StageSpace. I thought I was keeping that one quiet.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 9:45 AM
Would you rather I not link to it?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 9:46 AM
Second on a search for "Joe Drymala".
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 9:48 AM
Not at all! I've just never mentioned it here, is all. I'd wondered if anyone was aware of it.
Me and Ryan Davis started StageSpace about nine months ago, and we currently have an avid following of almost exclusively NYU theater majors, so we sort of tailor our writing accordingly. Although Ryan (whom I met on the Dean campaign, interestingly enough) tries to slip in the political on occasion.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 9:49 AM
I was wondering why, if you and this Ryan fellow started the site, your user number is three. Then I looked at user one.
I'm disappointed that my cousin isn't on that site. It would have been an interesting way to stalk her.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 9:54 AM
Does your cousin do theater things?
In spite of a totally crappy interface and site design, and intermittent posts which are shoddily written at best, we've managed to at least double our growth every month since we launched.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 9:56 AM
She does, indeed, do theater things, and IIRC is currently in NYC. I don't think she does much in the way of computer things, though.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 9:58 AM
Let me know if she's in something, and at the very least, I'll blog about it.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:08 AM
He told you: she's in NYC.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:09 AM
This is probably her (ass't to director).
Of course I only found out about that through the pow-wah of google.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:10 AM
HFS. I just saw Screen Play LAST NIGHT. And saw her name and wondered, for a mere moment, if she was related to you.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:12 AM
If it means anything, one of the cast members, John Fico, was in the workshop of a show that I wrote called THE GOLDEN CITY. If you happen to mention it to her.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:14 AM
I don't really talk to her, actually.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:18 AM
Ah. Very well, then.
She's with a great theater company, FWIW. Jim Simpson is a terrific director.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:20 AM
You corrected her once too often, didn't you?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:20 AM
There is a great schism between the California Wolfsons and the New York Wolfsons.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:22 AM
You guys are so hip-hop.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:23 AM
One of her sisters is also a theatrical type.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:25 AM
My head is still sort of exploding from the smallness of the world.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:25 AM
Um, I have a blog, but I may not post enough to be a regular commenter.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:28 AM
No no, I just forgot. I'll update.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:30 AM
Thanks for the link. Wish I was still on my multiple posts per day schedule as opposed to multiple posts per week.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:32 AM
Thanks, I'm never sure about this self-promotion stuff, even when it's called for.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:33 AM
My head is still sort of exploding from the smallness of the world.
What, still? That's one slow explosion.
At first the other office workers didn't notice anything. "Joe looks a little more stressed than usual" was the first thought they had, noticing the bulging veins in his forehead and neck—if indeed they took any notice of him at all. But then the skin seemed to stretch and split, the way a tomato plunged into boiling water, its insides expanding under the influence of the heat, will eventually crack its peel and expose the red flesh underneath, and he stumbled and fell, the thump attracting notice from nearby cubicles. He got to his feet slowly. "I'm ... I'm ok." Rubbing his forehead as he rose he felt the wet blood and pulled his hands away. "oh, shi..." He couldn't close his teeth to finish the word as the building pressure pushed outward at the bones of his skull. Then the first shattering crack, and a gobbets of brain described slow, gentle arcs through the air, a fine mist of blood remaining behind.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:34 AM
What, are you spying on me?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:36 AM
Surely there's some analysis to be performed of each of our respective efforts to determine what brings us all to the Mineshaft Unfogged.
Posted by Kriston | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:36 AM
Do you mean that the analysis will be on those efforts of ours to determine what brings us here, or that it will be on our efforts generally, with an eye to such a determination?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:38 AM
Besides the gay sex?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:39 AM
I find the proximity of "shattering crack" to "slow, gentle arcs" rather jarring. Also, even if his head is slow to explode, once it does the brain matter will rapidly settle into the strands of the carpet.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:41 AM
I was imagining that the whole explosion would take place in slow motion. It would be a little bit of surreality in an otherwise dull day at the office. Everything would be moving at the speed of life except fragments of Joe's skull, brain, etc.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:45 AM
Fast as life and twice as natural, yep.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:46 AM
Somehow, one of my posts is currently number 3 on a google search for "wolfson livejournal".
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:48 AM
Maybe I shouldn't have linked to that. Avert your eyes from the typos.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:49 AM
I'm here for the great schools.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:50 AM
It's because ogged is clearly a maturing Mr. Ripley. There is almost nothing too depraved to be mentioned here that will not be accepted with a certain detached grace.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:52 AM
I like the fascinating culture, myself.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:52 AM
Rone's got a jumpy trigger finger, it seems.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:53 AM
Itchy!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:54 AM
Speaking of 36, isn't baa a regular anymore?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:55 AM
Now SCMT's really going to think I'm kissing Ogged's ass, but I think Unfogged is the new Seinfeld. It's a blog about nothing.
Posted by Kriston | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:57 AM
That can't be ass-kissing because I don't like Seinfeld.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:58 AM
Well, how do you want to define regular? Some possibilities:
X is a regular if X comments 4 days/week,
X is a regular if X comments Y times/week,
X is a regular if X has installed a browser which only loads unfogged, its comment threads, and anything linked to on unfogged into their forearm.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:59 AM
isn't baa a regular anymore?
Yes, he is, I'll update.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 10:59 AM
That should read, "has installed a browser into their forearm which...
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:00 AM
Maybe a "regular" is just someone who has internalized Wolfson and come to believe that typos and errors in comments actually matter.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:02 AM
Regular commenting reflects some number of internalized inside jokes. Once you are able to correctly apply x jokes, you're in.
Posted by Kriston | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:05 AM
Y'know, I think Michael has a blog, but as he's never linked it to his name (and, if I'm correct in my assignation, it hasn't been updated since the end of May), I'll leave it up to him to decide whether the linkage will remain secret.
Also, how is it that Tripp and Mitch Mills don't have blogs of their own? It just seems...wrong, somehow.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:13 AM
regulars are the people that other regulars recognize.
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:14 AM
Yeah, I do know about Michael's blog. Not sure if he wants a link, like you say.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:15 AM
"if I'm correct in my assignation"
Uh . . . is that what you meant?
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:15 AM
Ah, I see that "assignation" can mean either "the act of assigning" or "a tryst." What an utterly perfect word for this blog :)
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:17 AM
When I used instant messenger, I used to correct myself all the time. This is before I had ever heard of Ben Wolfson. This internalization might be overstated.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:23 AM
Maybe a "regular" is just someone who has internalized Wolfson and come to believe that typos and errors in comments actually matter.
My own favorite so far. I so want to live in world in which "Wolfson" becomes widely used as a verb or category some 20 years from now.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:24 AM
You and me both, Tim.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:27 AM
that blog hasn't been updated in over a year, so, no point linking to it. I have another blog, link to that one if you can find it! bwahahaha!
(actually, i just don't post much)
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:31 AM
I like to think that if I keep the site up, in a few years, when Wolfson is a TA, no one will sign up for his sections.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:33 AM
if you can find it!
Found it.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:35 AM
good guess
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:39 AM
If? Ogged, you can't close the site, it's a neighborhood fixture!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 11:44 AM
I just don't have the stamina for these threads lately. I am still a regular reader. How could I ever foresake Unfogged, after all the wonderful food I have eaten with its members and regular commenters?
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 12:30 PM
Whoa, the much lampooned Joe is "theatre folk." It really is a small world. I'm all, like, theatre-happy because a great show is coming to town and BY GOD I want to be in it!
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 1:48 PM
What show?
And I was much lampooned???
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 1:50 PM
There can't be many shot-putters in Minnesota theater.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 1:50 PM
Yeah, who lampooned Joe?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 1:51 PM
I'll lampoon ALL you bitches.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 1:52 PM
Aw, geez, now I gotta go look. Back in a sec.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 1:58 PM
Okay, "lampooned" was not the proper word. Something like "deflated" would have been better, and I was refering to the child prodigy put-down.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:11 PM
Ah.
What gave you the idea I was a child prodigy, is what I wondered at the time and didn't ask?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:12 PM
There's a good Arto Lindsay song called "Child Prodigy", from O Corpo Sutil.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:14 PM
Have you seen this on child prodigies? Young + Brilliant + Blessed + Cursed.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:15 PM
Joe,
What gave you the idea I was a child prodigy, is what I wondered at the time and didn't ask?
At the time I vaguely recalled that these comments were infested with genius-like people and when you mentioned Mozart (a child prodigy who blossomed) I naturally assumed you were thinking of your own situation. That is what people do, mostly. Think about themselves.
Were you a child prodigy, or were you simply playing one to complete my joke?
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:35 PM
I regret to say that I was referred to as such on more than one occasion. But I was not what one normally associates with the word "prodigy." All I did was write a musical at age 16 that someone in Los Angeles thought was good enough to be produced. It was a very nice experience and some people said some very nice things.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:37 PM
I asked the question because I was curious as to whether you'd come across some evidence of that production or something.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:39 PM
Hey, can you guys link what you're talking about? And do you have enough gum for the rest of the class?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:40 PM
72--that's pretty damn good.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:41 PM
MW -- thanks. If nothing else, it gave me years-worth of confidence in my abilities as a writer, which I don't know that I would have had otherwise. At least, not enough to force me to keep plugging away at it for as long as I have. It has only been very recently that I've gotten some more validation in that arena. Not counting the Howard Dean business.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 2:44 PM
70- Liked this line from the article: "Robert says his first memory is of lying in his crib thinking about reincarnation."
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:04 PM
Geez, Joe, that is awesome. I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Great expectations can be great burdens.
No, I had no evidence of your past other than what appears here. I like to think I'm pretty good at sizing people up but I'm full of it.
And eb, that link was great. Too true.
The show is "Urinetown" which is finally getting off tour and the rights are coming available. It is "amateur hour" around these parts but people are still talented and I'm very excited about the possibilities.
With Hubbert's peak and all I'm starting to think this is the right show at the right time.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:04 PM
Hui! (as we exclaim here), thanks for the push.
Comes at just the wrong time, as I havent posted for a week owing to pressure of work yadda yaddada.... maybe I ll be shamed into posting tomorrow.
In re the name: It all got started in a real hurry (I forget why now) and once youve got a handle you're kind of stuck with it. I'm open to suggestions though!
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:08 PM
Tripp, no need to apologize. No harm, no foul. I was joking with my response also.
Inexplicably, I never saw Urinetown. I wish I had. There were plenty of opportunities for me to go.
There's some good theater in the Twin Cities, I hear.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:10 PM
I liked this:
He once cited Newton's laws of physics as an excuse for not cleaning up the back seat of the car.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:11 PM
Umm? Did Newton work on Entropy? I'd have thought that was more your standard Boltzmann/Gibbs/Planck joke, but there you go.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:13 PM
It didn't say he cited them correctly.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:15 PM
True, Ben, True. Ruthlessly logical as ever. I've missed this place ya know.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:16 PM
It didn't say he cited the laws of entropy at all!
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:16 PM
The entropy joke about messy rooms seemed to be a staple of my junior high/high school physical science classes (I seem to remember hearing it from more than one teacher.)
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:17 PM
I merely associated cleaning with the removal of disordered states.... my bad
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:17 PM
Actually, there is a natural reading of 81 on which it would be false if he had cited the laws of thermodynamics, even if he had called them 'Newton's laws'. (sticks tongue out)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:19 PM
Someone should market a vacuum called Maxwell's Demon.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:19 PM
Because an object at rest tends to remain at rest (first law) and the force required to move an object is proportional to the mass (second law) it will take me more effort than it is worth to clean up the back seat of the car.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:20 PM
88, not sure I see the point...
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:20 PM
I guess that does count as a citation of the laws, slol, but it's not very compelling.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:21 PM
My first memory is of trying to turn my crib into a perpetual motion machine powered by the transmigration of souls.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:22 PM
Well, to be ruthlessly logical, the article does not say that he cited the laws in a compelling manner.
As for 88, the problem is the car is not a closed system, right?
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:23 PM
oh oh.. floppy tongues at ten paces... so which it is false?
(I advise that I am so tired as to be even more incoherent than you have come to expect.) The natural reading or the contention?
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:23 PM
93: how much momentum can a soul posses?
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:25 PM
94: Todays seals are pretty good if you wind the windows up. * more tongue flopping*
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:26 PM
Well, if I say, "Our smartest senator, Rick Santorum, says that gay marriage is like man-on-dog sex," and you say, "Weiner cited our smartest Senator as saying that gay marriage is like man-on-dog sex," what you say is wrong, because I didn't cite our smartest Senator. I cited one of the dumbest ones, even if I called him the smartest one. What you have to say is something like, "Weiner, calling him 'our smartest Senator', cited Rick Santorum as saying that gay marriage is like man-on-dog sex." That's what Ken Taylor, chair of Stanford's philosophy department, calls a fulsome de re ascription (pdf link).
If you say "Weiner said that our smartest senator..." then you yourself are committing yourself to the idea that whoever I talked about is our smartest senator.
(Most of the time--Taylor seems to think that happens whenever the description is in subject position, but I disagree. I can say "Nutbar 73 says the WMDs are in Syria" without committing myself to the existence of WMDs. I haven't reread the Taylor so I may be misinterpreting/misquoting.)
So, analogously, if he said "Newton's laws of entropy mean I can't clean this up" you might be wrong to say "He cited Newton's laws...." because that commits you to the idea that the law cited actually was Newton's.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:31 PM
If you can think of a compelling way to cite Newton's laws in order to get out of cleaning, let me know.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:32 PM
Sure, but I didn't think we were talking about the truth of the claim in the article, but rather its plausibility.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:34 PM
Fulsome, eh? I favor the negative (2-4) definitions myself.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:35 PM
There are in addition typographical readings on which the sentence can be rendered more meaningful.
He once cited "Newton's laws of physics" as an excuse for not cleaning up the back seat of the car.
(if it were an article whose pressing interest kept him from arising to clean the car)
He once cited Newton's laws of physics as an excuse for not cleaning up the back seat of the car.
(if it were a book whose pressing weight kept him from arising to clean the car)
He once "cited Newton's laws of physics" as an excuse for not cleaning up the back seat of the car.
(if it were a euphemism for some distracting activity that kept him from arising to clean the car)
Or it is just possible that for a pre-schooler to mention Newton's laws, even inaptly, might have tipped his parents to his abilities.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:37 PM
Well there is that.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:37 PM
(if it were a euphemism for some distracting activity that kept him from arising to clean the car)
—Robert? What are you doing in there?
—Nothing mom! I'm just--I'm citing Newton's laws of physics is all!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:39 PM
He could have been talking about inertia. Still not compelling, though.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:39 PM
I need to read the Taylor when I'm coherent and able to string more than 0,75 thoughts together at once. Thanks for the link, though.
My guts tell me the "Nutbar" interpretation is correct. My reaction was to the notion that Newton got steamy on Entropy, so i guess I was reacting to the incorrectness of "He cited Newtons Laws...", no?
I realise now just how much I need 6 hours kip.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:40 PM
I think you're correct to prefer the negative denotation of fulsome, insofar as there's any point describing usage as "correct" anymore.
Me, I gotta go "cite Newton's law's of physics," if you know what I mean (and I think you do).
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:40 PM
Oh, fulsome (superabundant, loathsome) inverted comma!
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:41 PM
Also, suppose you have a car that is a perfectly closed system and suppose that the windows are covered with blackout curtains.
Can you be sure if the back seat is messy or not?
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:41 PM
You could feel it.
But you would probably have other things to worry about, like your imminent death.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:43 PM
Dome light.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:44 PM
Weiner with the elegant solution.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:46 PM
I was picturing the observer as outside the car.
But if you were inside the car, how would someone outside know if you were dead or alive?
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:47 PM
109: no but you might be able to measure the hotttness by measuring the cavity radiation levels.
Further, if it were a black body, one could infer that in sunlight the messyness (number of accessible microstates of the occupants) would rise leading to explosive tendencies within unless release mechanisms were available.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:47 PM
Did someone already say that this was Schrödinger's car?
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:49 PM
113: Are we setting up for Schrödinger's cat here?
114: I'm pretty sure that's not how you use 'hott'; though, if it's hott enough, measuring cavity radiation levels has great appeal.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:50 PM
Jinx!
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:50 PM
containing cats and Schwinger's friends?
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:50 PM
I would like to announce that, in certain frames of reference, 116 appeared before 115. And was funnier.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:50 PM
117: Dang. Remember, it rhymes with 'meaner'.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:51 PM
If "slolernr" referred to slowness rather than to slols, I'd make reference to slolernr not being as slow as the name indicates.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:53 PM
It was best when we all realized that the Schrödinger reference was so obvious it needn't be made, because then we could admire each others' restraint and awareness of our general store of knowledge.
cavity radiation levels has great appeal.
I'm defeated.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:54 PM
So do we really want to move to the accessible states of vibration of a cat in closed cadillac with black curtains and certain cavity emissions? Cos if so, we need to talk about s and p bonding shells.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:55 PM
Cavity emissions, S&M bonding shells—jeez, Austro. Get a room.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:56 PM
S and p Ben, S and P.
I was only asking a question.
But yep.. its time for sleep.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 3:59 PM
122: Jeez.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 4:01 PM
I now need a definition of echte Schlampfe is this a concatanation of the German "Schlampe" and the Dutch original for Smurf?
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 4:06 PM
I've never been a regular, but I will say that reading all of these comment threads can be pretty exhausting. Contributing meaningfully could be real work. How do you people get anything real done? Just reading blogs is such a time suck.
Posted by Abby | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 4:10 PM
Smurf was original Strompf, and Flemish, not Dutch. (yeah, big difference, I know)
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 4:17 PM
Abby, I think the clue is in the second sentence, no?
For my part I simply block my time and thank the laws of motion and errr yes, well thermodynamics actually, that I live in a space in which I can comment either early in the morning on stuff which happened in the previous evening, or late at night on threads moving in the afternoon.
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 4:18 PM
I just love the idea of a strumpet smurf. Only I bet Father Abraham would be a fundie....
Posted by Austro | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 4:21 PM
Fr Abraham? What does a Jewish patriarch have to do with Smurfs? He can't circumcize them.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 4:51 PM
Ah, Ogged, unfaithful old buddy, you forgot to mention Cliopatria again, even though she's had you on her dance card for -- oh -- a year or so.
Posted by Ralph Luker | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 8:13 PM
Ralph, these are the blogs of the regular commenters. You last commented here on April 17. I count 23 comments from you over the life of the blog. Most of the regulars leave that many comments each day. Anyway, haven't you heard of unrequited love?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 8:21 PM
I've been not-posting to my blog almost as long as (my good namesake) Michael- doesn't that count?
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 8:29 PM
Oh, so comments by busy people like Tim Burke, et al, don't count into Cliopatria's total? It's probably time for Cliopatria to drop Unfogged from its blogroll anyway.
Posted by Ralph Luker | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 8:47 PM
Ok, I didn't count Tim. That's 30 more. Still, you're not seriously suggesting that you guys are regulars here, are you?
Now I want to link to Cliopatria, but don't want to seem to be giving in to the de-linking threat. What's your face-saving solution, Mr. Elder Statesman?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 8:55 PM
It's not a threat, Ogged. We've increasingly become the hub for history blogging. It's a growing part of the academic blogosphere. We count over 150 history blogs on our History Blogroll now. In the long run, at least, that will probably have implications for how our regular Blogroll looks.
Posted by Ralph Luker | Link to this comment | 06-21-05 9:16 PM
Joe,
There's some good theater in the Twin Cities, I hear.
Yes, I have to agree with that.
Abby,
How do you people get anything real done?
Speaking for myself I've always been a fast reader. Probably a very fast reader, but unfogged slows me down because of the references, which I like. My worktime schedule is pretty much periods of concentration with periods of waiting. Computers are too slow! I keep my off work activities away from a computer, so my contributions here are 9-5.
Ralph and ogged,
Neediness is unattractive. Do what you want to do.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 7:32 AM
Wow. 134, 136, 138: Way too unattractive to let pass without comment. Ralph, your comments show an asymptotic climb toward douchebaggery.
Posted by Kriston | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 7:40 AM
It's ok guys, Ralph and I have a long history of him badgering me about the blogroll and me refusing in mock-friendly tones. Ralph, given his advanced age, might not remember those past episodes, and might be playing this out each time with the thrill of the new, but it amounts to the same thing.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 7:46 AM
I've never been a regular, but I will say that reading all of these comment threads can be pretty exhausting. Contributing meaningfully could be real work. How do you people get anything real done? Just reading blogs is such a time suck.
The thing to realize, Abby, is that eventually you don't read any other blogs.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 7:47 AM
Except mine!
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 8:34 AM
I don't even read this blog.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 8:36 AM
What's a blog?
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 9:37 AM
I'm no longer literate.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 12:28 PM
I'm dead.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 12:39 PM
I never lived.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 12:41 PM
DE, apparently, is undead.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 12:48 PM
DE, apparently, is undead.
Fun with un-: "Dave isn't a philosophy major, Dave is unhomeless."
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 12:53 PM
Better unborn than undead, that's my motto.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 1:14 PM
Or eb's.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 1:15 PM
Best of all is never to have been born, second best is to die soon, and third best is to feast on BRAAINNNNS.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 1:16 PM
watch out ben, the FBI may come for you.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-22-05 1:27 PM
http://www.monsitexxx.com/fetiche/astromag/pissing/going/monkey.html clothinggamessickening
Posted by engaged | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 2:44 PM