Re: Unforgivable

1

I'm glad you picked that up in Persepolis 2 and agree with me.

I didn't much like her character before then --- I mean, right from the word go she was this self-involved kid, oblivious to the world around her except to the extent she could whine about it --- but damn, what she did there was cold and she the "apology" she gives in the book is pretty half-hearted.

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2

She's much less likable in 2, which, up until then, was to her credit: she's the author after all, and was presenting a warts-and-all portrait of herself. But some warts you just can't get over.

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3

Breathe easier by considering the difference between a fictional character being sneaky to catch a murderer, and a real person deflecting a danger to herself by creating a greater danger to an innocent. In other words, repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."

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4

I have a tangential connection to a well-known true crime story. (I knew the family.) It sounds like it may have been an inspiration for this episode. This woman and her boyfriend conspired to kill both her parents. And in the prosecution, the DA got the woman to turn on her boyfriend by this method. But in that case the boyfriend had stabbed the parents about ninety times each. Would that make a difference to you?

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5

Can anyone even attempt to put himself in the shoes of a woman in Iran, after the Revolution where some women got acid thrown in their face because of make up? Survival instinct may make a person do things that in a reality based society one would be horrified to think about doing.

I suggest we be less harsh in our judgment of others--If we have to judge at all!

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6

The Hargitay story is absolutely routine police work. Prisoner's Dilemma 101.

Probably Ogged had a crush on Juliet, but what a fool he was -- Juliet was committed to Romeo until Hargitay intervened, but now she's unattached. (Death Row inmates get a lot of marriage proposals you know).

A cute female undercover private detective in Texas befriended a nerdy suspect. He wasn't used to female attention, and in a few weeks he said, "Will you marry me? But there's one thing I have to tell you first about my past." She listened to his proposal and confession, made a phone call, and the police were there in a few minutes.

Probably the guy, wherever he is, is a misogynist now, with issues about trust. That's the way the Israelis kidnapped Vananu too, with the help of a hot American Jewish Zionist lady.

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7

I recently saw an episode of Law & Order recently in which the crooked PD couched his entire confession in the imagery of the Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock.

Man, I hate that show.

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8

I am all for people rejecting L & O for whatever reason. It is threatening to slowly take over all of television. And I don't need more law when I am home from work.

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9

In Criminal Intent, why must Vincent D'Onofrio use his powers for evil? In the obligatory confrontation scene, when we're supposed to revel in the perp's comeuppance, my attention is entirely given to hating the Goren character's oily condescension. "Suspect!", thinks I, "Punch him in the mouth!" Does anyone actually enjoy those scenes?

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10

I still haven't forgiven you for calling that kid "blackie".

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11

You and me both.

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12

I'd watch L&O any day over the survival/reality/ knife in the back crap. Now, what's with all the man/teenboy lockerroom talk going on around here? Seems like a lot of dongs and dicks and anti-chick sentiment. Hmmm. (Please, great lords of style, forgive my adjective pileups.)

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13

Please let her be joking.

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14

Can anyone even attempt to put himself in the shoes of a woman in Iran

Without getting into that whole discussion, I'll just add that in the book, she laughs as she tells her grandmother the story, and her grandmother becomes incensed.

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15

"Suspect!", thinks I, "Punch him in the mouth!"

Goren is really weird. (A friend who's a cop calls him "cop savant".) He's not a character so much as a storytelling device to introduce relevant information. Insofar as he has a personality, it surely doesn't it work for it to be confident and assertive. And yet, I like the show.

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16

No, ogged, no kidding. We're obviously not in the same lane. I still like your place though. At ease.

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17

Judy, I don't know how long you've been reading, but it's kind of what we do around here. There's a reason people call this the frathaus.

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18

Ooooooo. Now don't get your dander (or dong-der) up. Guess I'll just keep browsing for the frauhaus. (towel snap)

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19

I do like how often Judy uses the word "dong." I feel as though we neglect that term.

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20

There's a ladies' section at the frathaus, Judy.

Our official function is to point and giggle at the silly boys whilst they commence with their towel-snapping, cock jokes, and/or grammar-correcting. Sometimes they grammar-correct the cock jokes. They're all about variety, the men of unfogged.

(The site is fun. It's not sexist.)

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21

anti-chick sentiment

Misogynist? The hausketeers? Only if cock jokes are per se misogynist.

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22

kind of you, Cala. Though of course the women are welcome to join in the towel snapping/ grammar correcting/ cock joke saturnalia.

As most often they do.

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23

hausketeers is good.

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24

i think someone got hold of the wrong end of the stick

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25

hausketeers is good.

Rather, hausketeers are well.

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26

indeed not -- the hausketeers are not en masse well or sick; we vary. The term "hausketeers" is a good term, meaning apt.

I ought to take it back now.

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27

of course, the hausketeers are massive, if that is what you're after.

cockjoke!

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28

I think at this point I could write a monograph on whether Unfogged is or is not sexist.

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29

your teasing us ac: please do so.

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30

That's "you're", my friend.

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31

You have my enthusiastic endorsement of your statements, Ogged.

Question: why are women either encouraged, expected, or allowed to get away with lying? All over the planet?

A guy lies, and he's destroyed for life and women will avoid him. A woman lies and it's 'oh, well'.

ash

['Just wondering.']

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32

I'm glad "you're" is your friend, ben.

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33

ash,

Huh? Are you being ironic? If so, sorry, I totally missed it. If not, care to provide some examples as evidence for that incredibly broad statement?

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34

incredibly broad statement

Um, no pun (or offense) was consciously intended.

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35

Don't do testing on the live site, you fool! This is not the Reading Group!

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36

This is just insane. If Danny Elfman wrote a song about this he would call it Insanity.

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37

Good heavens.

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38

Austro, yes, that's me, a big tease.

But no - the general thesis of my projected work is that I do think it is a bit sexist, but it's a playful, self-critical sort of sexism. And even if it weren't playful, it would be somewhat leavened by the self-conscious homoeroticism.


But I should also say I have incentive to find Ogged sexist. I'd like to think that because Ogged does not find me utterly and totally charming, that this is, of course, entirely his own sexist fault.

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39

What's it called when you flick your finger rapidly back and forth over your lips while you vocalize? Because that's what I'm doing now.

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40

*one "that" too many

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41

Voiceless bilabial trill?

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42

That lip thing? I'm not doing it any more.

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43

What's your incentive?

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44

Don't do testing on the live site, you fool!

What you mean, of course, is "Don't do the testing while you're drinking and on the phone, you fool!" All better now, I think.

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45

My incentive?

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46

It's voiced. And it includes one's finger in addition to the usual articulatory apparatus. So it's a voiced labiodigital trill.

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47

To find ogged sexist. But my question was based on a misreading of your post. Please disregard.

Yours faithfully,

Homaro Cantu, Esq.

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48

I do like how often Judy uses the word "dong." I feel as though we neglect that term.

It seems to me that there's been a grave decline in the use of "tallywhacker."

[I did try to rephrase that several times, then thought I'd just hang some nice fruit low over the plate for one of you degenerates to tee off on. (Could I mix more metaphors?)]

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49

So it's a voiced labiodigital trill.

Oh! Oh my god!

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50

It seems to me that there's been a grave decline in the use of "tallywhacker."

None of us knows her well enough, I think.

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51

voiced labiodigital trill

This dipthong often immediately precedes a fricative.

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52

Oh! Oh my god!

Is there a problem? Other than the gaping hole in the middle of the IPA, I mean.

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53

Diphthong.

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54

38: Just poor taste. (And my internetting may be spotty over the summer, which is why it took me so long.)

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55

Jeepers, y'all are fricativating diphthongs. But I like you. Then again, as an unman, I am probably lying. I do that. I do that all over the planet. I figure, what the trill, go for it.

In that L&O-SVU episode, Olivia Benson's strategy made me sick, too. But I didn't feel like we were meant to high-five each other at a job well done. Benson looked like she made her own self sick, too. The L&O's aren't much into character development, but I think that's what they're doing here with Benson. There's going to be repercussions. Heh. You thought the L&O's couldn't ever surprise you, didn't you?

I might be wrong. I could be a mistaken liar. If so, I will simply giggle fetchingly and I'm sure I'll be forgiven. Remember, it's not amazing that the dog dances well, but that she dances at all.

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56

1. I thought ogged didn't drink.

2. I find it hard to believe that any cop is friends with our effete slim-waisted host; perhaps I have been watching too much OZ and The Wire.

3. What was mis-posted that got everyone in an uproar?

4. I believe the term for the haus is "post-misogynist" or "fourth wave misogyny."

5. Benson is annoying, but Hargitay is super attractive, and that covers up a wealth of sins. Also, she came off as charming on some late night show I saw. Very much digging her groove.

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57

Apparently you've got me figured all wrong, eh?

I mistakenly applied a style sheet from the new reading site to this site, and it screwed up the formatting.

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58

I mistakenly applied a style sheet from the new reading site to this site, and it screwed up the formatting.

Unforgivable.

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59

Admit the beauty of Hargitay, ogged. That's all I'm really looking for.

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60

The day before yesterday, Hargitay looked good, in a funny sort of way. Today, she just has a crooked face.

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61

To match her soul.

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62

Not all of us are wishing ourselves a plasticine Barbie, ogged. Or, I guess, Christie. Some of us like a face with character.

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63

Even if that character is black as the devil's own heart. Don't forget to invite me to the wedding.

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64

Re: Vincent D': I always thought the D'Onofrio character was highly-functioning autistic. That lack of affect, etc. But then, I'm madly in love with Gil Grissom from CSI, who is probably the same. In fact, I no longer watch L&O, just CSI in its endless reruns... tho' not those with David Caruso, because he's just, well, icky.

Re: Women making cock jokes in [on?] Unfogged: We tend to make most of them in the secret back room, because that's where we keep the dancing boys hidden, but hell, we're women, we can make sacrifices!

Misogynist? The hausketeers? Only if cock jokes are per se misogynist.

SB: One can, of course, put forth the argument that, as women don't have cocks*, the jokes are per se exclusionary, and therefore misogynistic. One can also argue that Intelligent Design is science and that Keanu Reeves is a formidable actor. After one sobers up, one can pretend one never said any such thing...

*OTOH, as most women can tell you, with what we have, we can get all we want of what you have, neener, neener.


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65

The IPA hole isn't so gaping after all – this character would do in a pinch. I'm sure the Uralic Phonetic Alphabet wouldn't miss it.

Merry bleebida-bleebiding.

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66

we can get all we want of what you have

Oh? What do I have?

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67

[Every time someone says "IPA", I think of India Pale Ale.]

Ogged: Why do you object to tricksy methods of getting a murderer to confess? Is it just the starcrossed-lovers bit that pains you? Or that Juliet was so ready to believe that Romeo would betray her? I mean, we aren't talking about innocent people here...

Re: Satrapi: Wonderful - stupid enough to wear make-up in public when she knows the dangers, then callous enough to give some poor innocent guy to the cops, whilst knowing full well that, at best, they'll beat him to a pulp and, at worst, they'll kill him...

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68

Oh? What do I have?

That depends, I suppose, on whether you're XX or XY...

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69

Every time someone says "IPA", I think of India Pale Ale.

It's a toss-up as to which is humanity's greater achievement.

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70

Ogged: Why do you object to tricksy methods of getting a murderer to confess? Is it just the starcrossed-lovers bit that pains you? Or that Juliet was so ready to believe that Romeo would betray her? I mean, we aren't talking about innocent people here...

And, I'll ask again, probably in vain because Ogged is so sexist, would it make a difference if the murder were very brutal?

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71

Also, would it make a difference if the cops admitted their deceit after she confessed, leaving her to rot in prison with her trust in Romeo restored?

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72

Thats cold, ac, but not as cold as this delicious granita I'm making.

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73

She did find out a few minutes later that she'd been lied to. (I'm getting to your question, ac. Geez.)

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74

Oh? What do I have?

Well for starters, an awfully silly name.

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75

I thought ogged didn't drink.

Start here, and read on until "Macallan".

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76

You're one to talk, "Mitch Mills".

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77

I kid because I love.

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78

I do object to using deceit to elicit a confession (though it doesn't normally bother me quite so much); I'm having a hard time putting my finger on just what so outraged me, but I think it was that the guy was truly acting out of love. In fact, he was putting himself at risk to protect his girlfriend, and Benson took away this beautiful thing (at least in the eyes of the person who mattered to him most) with her lying. It was like someone slashing a Rembrandt because there was twenty bucks hidden behind it. God, I hate her for it.

What if the mother hadn't deserved it? Or if the crime had been really violent? Well, then it would be harder to see their love as genuine, and not simpy some pathological attachment, so I can't quite do that counterfactual.

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79

as most women can tell you, with what we have, we can get all we want of what you have, neener, neener.

In the words of G Love, (allegedly to his girl) "I've got all the pussy and you only got one."

on whether you're XX or XY

or XXX or XXY. Gotta speak up for the minorities, knamean?

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80

It occurs to me that you've all been mentally mispronouncing my name, because I never mentioned that it was Italian.

Yours,

Stahn-PEEP-eh

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81

Thats cold, ac, but not as cold as this delicious granita I'm making.

I haven't put my air-conditioner in yet and my apartment is very hot at the moment. So I am taunted by your talk of cold granita.

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82

he was putting himself at risk to protect his girlfriend, and Benson took away this beautiful thing

Ogged, can you get the ex or exbeforelast to confirm that you have a penis?

(Mock my Hargitay, will you!)

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83

The L&O:CI thing doesn't bother me; it's fiction, they were murderers, la di da.

But the second case? I'm just bewildered. a) Lipstick wipes off pretty easily and b) if you're trying to avoid being noticed by the morality police, why would you go pick a fight?

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84

I had the same thought as Cala's (b), but I somehow forgot it in shock at her pinning it on the bystander.

What if guys in Iran want to wear lipstick? Or a burka? I guess I could be less lazy and google that stuff.

I empathize with Ogged on his reaction to the corrupt use of personal attatchment, and everyone at the mineshaft knows I have a penis.

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85

re 29, 30, 38 ff:

It is a metaphor for the trials of life and the capriol of fate that, having pressed "post" instead of "preview" (again) I saw the awfulness of the error and tried to cancel. To no avail. Having provided the world with further evidence of my near total inability to follow even the basic rules of language, my laptop hung up.

There is no benign God.

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86

Oh, he may be benign, Austro.

He just doesn't like you.

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87

Evidently.

I call it mobbing, actually. Note how Wolfson et al get given the LHF.

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88

That was sort of the point, ac. Mmm.

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89

Not you specifically, of course—how could I have known of your AC-related woes?

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90

Well the story about the swede would have been a clue.

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91

If ac were solely into autoerotica, would her sexual preference be defined as ac/ac?


Sorry, that was a bit out of the blue. I was trying to work something up about ac's AC woes, and that's what popped into my head.

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92

"...the meddling mother of the Juliet in a contemporary Romeo and Juliet couple had been murdered."

Um, wasn't this on, like, months ago? (No, please don't ask me to read 91 comments before noting; thanks.) This doesn't, of course, put it out of bounds, it's just possibly odd in the present tense. Although I might offer up some original Star Trek scripts in the same spirit of timelessness.

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93

She killed her mom and was going to let her boyfriend take the wrap for it if i were a cop id do the same thing. how else do you think that cops get confessions, by telling the truth, yeah right. Besides its just a show you shouldnt hate an actress just because she lied on a show. thats retarded.

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