It might also be that technique only gets you so far. Being ripped and looking like an alien might also help. And yes, they do shave their bodies (male and female).
How much faster than you are elite swimmers, ogged? Are they a lot faster by the standards used by them (e.g., .1 seconds), or by a more normal standard (e.g.,30% faster)?
I don't actually know even that precisely. I've never really timed myself, and never started from blocks. But roughly, I think they're probably twice as fast as me in the freestyle and 30% faster in the breaststroke.
On the contrary, I seek to extend Michael's name and game outward, so that we might come to use them as prisms by which we can better understand the world. WWMJD, as it were. By reference to Michael, we understand that your baldness thesis is wrong, and probably just part of a clever marketing campaign to sell Air Hair shaving kits. We remember that in one commercial, Jordan wore goggles very much like those in the picture as part of a disguise, and we realize that there is a simple explanation for Klim's times: he's Michael in disguise.
I was a NCAA dI swimmer, and pretty good in my mid-size conference (i.e., not SEC, Big 10, ACC, PAC 10, etc.). The NCAA record-holder in my events were substantially faster than me - like 10% in some cases (14:30 v. 15:50 mile; 4:10 v. 4:30 500 free; 3:40 v. 4:05 400IM). The record holders are probably 5% faster than even elite college swimmers who can qualify for the NCAA championship meet.
My take on technique: you can't even imagine the difference. Theirs is amazing; even good college swimmers' can't compare. Plus they train like demons.
A real swimmer! Hi phred! Yes, my impression of the elite swimmers is that they're mightily strong, train unbelievably hard, and have various genetic gifts, like very long arms, flexibility, or big feet.
And you're totally right about technique. When it really shows up is at meets during warmups and you see some people who are just moving differently through the water (oddly, it's not really obvious during races). It's great to see.
At the bottom of this page, there's an underwater clip of Evans (competition).
It's weird, but not so weird. Her arm enters the water in the catch position, rather than entering, extending, then catching. You see some sprinters do this, but she was a distance swimmer, and it has to put horrible pressure on your shoulder to swim this way. But what do I know? Maybe phred can tell us.
Ogged, if you'll notice, it's not that she enters the water with her arm in the catch position, it's that her arm leaves the wayer in catch position. In fact, it is hard to tell whether it ever leaves this position under water (she digs rather deep). All in all, it's an amazing stroke. Not one you can use in a crowded pool or lake, but awesome when you're out there by yourself. As for putting stress on the shoulder, why don't you try it next time and let us all know?
I meant to say, it's a lot like an alternating armed butterfly without keeping the arms close to the water. I guess that makes it more like the windmill stretch (opposite-opposite anyone?) that never really seemed to do anything except make you swing your arms really fast.
Be careful not to equate technique with formula. There are a lot of elite swimmers with odd-looking strokes (there was a US Olympian in 84 or 88 who had a really weird, lilting freestyle - his left arm's pull took much longer than his right arm's), but they share a certain efficiency. That is, they catch a lot of water with their hands and arms, have very little slippage, and their bodies don't drag through the water. That kind of efficiency can be gained in several ways, depending, I suppose, on body type, strength v. endurance v. flexibility, and so on. Indeed, it would be surprising for a very short swimmer with incredible endurance but less sheer power (Evans) to have a stroke very similar to very tall, very powerful swimmer like Matt Biondi. Consider the enormous variation in very fast sailboats.
And regarding not seeing technique differences in races. Things are quicker there, but in some meets you can. Go to a meet with low entry requirements, but that attracts elite swimmers, such that in prelims there is a big variation. USS regional championships and NCAA DI small conference championships are like that - they are the big meet of the season for decent swimmers, but just a warm-up to nationals for elites. All of the racers will train hard - often together - and only the non-elites are tapered and shaved (I.e., peaked for the meet). But the elites still win; they just outclass everyone else, often precisely b/c of technique.
"Tapering" is the reduction of workout intensity leading up to a meet.
Phred, I think you're thinking of Tom Dolan. I'm not sure I understand the distinction between technique and formula. Wait, unless you're saying that you can have very good technique that departs from the formula of "what you're supposed to do." Yeah, absolutely.
(As far as I can tell, my new host's bandwidth limit might as well be infinite....)
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:27 AM
It might also be that technique only gets you so far. Being ripped and looking like an alien might also help. And yes, they do shave their bodies (male and female).
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:34 AM
Baldness is a social construct.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:43 AM
So the Rogaine finally started working, hey ogged?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:46 AM
Note also the pointiness of his bald head. Good aerodynamics on that one.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:49 AM
His parents were thinking ahead.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:51 AM
He's practically daring Prince Adam to summon the power of Greyskull.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:59 AM
are all swimmers that ripped in the bicep region? I thought they were more lanky, big-back, thin-limbed types.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:00 AM
Depends on what they swim. A lot of the sprint freestylers are built like Klim; they also really like to flex.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:03 AM
5: You mean this is Ogged?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:12 AM
But my head is also skinny.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:14 AM
How much faster than you are elite swimmers, ogged? Are they a lot faster by the standards used by them (e.g., .1 seconds), or by a more normal standard (e.g.,30% faster)?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:16 AM
I don't actually know even that precisely. I've never really timed myself, and never started from blocks. But roughly, I think they're probably twice as fast as me in the freestyle and 30% faster in the breaststroke.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:23 AM
11: You can't see it in that picture, but the guy's head is like two inches thick front to back. He's Flat Stanley.
(IOW, I'm pwned but refusing to admit it.)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:25 AM
There's a fine tradition of that around here.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:31 AM
Did you consider entitling the post, "Money, Money, It's Got To Be The Hair"?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:36 AM
No.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:42 AM
Why do you hate Michael Jordan? And, by extension, America?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:47 AM
Why do you seek to cheapen Michael's legacy by throwing around the phrases we associate with him, and by using his name to smear your opponents? Huh?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 11:49 AM
On the contrary, I seek to extend Michael's name and game outward, so that we might come to use them as prisms by which we can better understand the world. WWMJD, as it were. By reference to Michael, we understand that your baldness thesis is wrong, and probably just part of a clever marketing campaign to sell Air Hair shaving kits. We remember that in one commercial, Jordan wore goggles very much like those in the picture as part of a disguise, and we realize that there is a simple explanation for Klim's times: he's Michael in disguise.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 12:01 PM
there is a simple explanation for Klim's times: he's Michael in disguise
You might be on to something there. The rest of your comment, of course, is boilerplate ad-man horseshit. (That's bad.)
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 12:03 PM
Alternative title: ladies, Mr. Clean wants to have a word with your husband.
Posted by diddy | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 12:21 PM
WWMJD?
Gamble heavily.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 12:25 PM
I'm glad you've finally recognized what is, after all, so palpably obvious; bald guys are better at everything.
Posted by Protagoras | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 1:02 PM
besides attracting women.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 1:06 PM
bald guys are better at everything
Especially growing hair on their heads. They just choose not to do it.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 1:09 PM
re: faster.
I was a NCAA dI swimmer, and pretty good in my mid-size conference (i.e., not SEC, Big 10, ACC, PAC 10, etc.). The NCAA record-holder in my events were substantially faster than me - like 10% in some cases (14:30 v. 15:50 mile; 4:10 v. 4:30 500 free; 3:40 v. 4:05 400IM). The record holders are probably 5% faster than even elite college swimmers who can qualify for the NCAA championship meet.
My take on technique: you can't even imagine the difference. Theirs is amazing; even good college swimmers' can't compare. Plus they train like demons.
Posted by phred | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 1:30 PM
Joe O, LOL. I saw that Yglesias post about theory, philosophy and social constructs. You've got perfect timing.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 1:48 PM
A real swimmer! Hi phred! Yes, my impression of the elite swimmers is that they're mightily strong, train unbelievably hard, and have various genetic gifts, like very long arms, flexibility, or big feet.
And you're totally right about technique. When it really shows up is at meets during warmups and you see some people who are just moving differently through the water (oddly, it's not really obvious during races). It's great to see.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 1:49 PM
But what about Janet Evans? Has her technique been defended, or just puzzled over?
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 3:37 PM
I haven't seen any underwater clips of Evans. I don't know if her pull was really all that weird.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 4:01 PM
That could be true; I've never seen the underwater part of her stroke. But above water—definitely unusual.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 4:04 PM
At the bottom of this page, there's an underwater clip of Evans (competition).
It's weird, but not so weird. Her arm enters the water in the catch position, rather than entering, extending, then catching. You see some sprinters do this, but she was a distance swimmer, and it has to put horrible pressure on your shoulder to swim this way. But what do I know? Maybe phred can tell us.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 4:12 PM
Ogged, if you'll notice, it's not that she enters the water with her arm in the catch position, it's that her arm leaves the wayer in catch position. In fact, it is hard to tell whether it ever leaves this position under water (she digs rather deep). All in all, it's an amazing stroke. Not one you can use in a crowded pool or lake, but awesome when you're out there by yourself. As for putting stress on the shoulder, why don't you try it next time and let us all know?
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 9:57 PM
I meant to say, it's a lot like an alternating armed butterfly without keeping the arms close to the water. I guess that makes it more like the windmill stretch (opposite-opposite anyone?) that never really seemed to do anything except make you swing your arms really fast.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:00 PM
it's a lot like an alternating armed butterfly
That's right. You can read all about it here.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:04 PM
The Inge De Brujin video is just pretty durn cool
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 07-27-05 10:14 PM
Re: evans and technique
Be careful not to equate technique with formula. There are a lot of elite swimmers with odd-looking strokes (there was a US Olympian in 84 or 88 who had a really weird, lilting freestyle - his left arm's pull took much longer than his right arm's), but they share a certain efficiency. That is, they catch a lot of water with their hands and arms, have very little slippage, and their bodies don't drag through the water. That kind of efficiency can be gained in several ways, depending, I suppose, on body type, strength v. endurance v. flexibility, and so on. Indeed, it would be surprising for a very short swimmer with incredible endurance but less sheer power (Evans) to have a stroke very similar to very tall, very powerful swimmer like Matt Biondi. Consider the enormous variation in very fast sailboats.
And regarding not seeing technique differences in races. Things are quicker there, but in some meets you can. Go to a meet with low entry requirements, but that attracts elite swimmers, such that in prelims there is a big variation. USS regional championships and NCAA DI small conference championships are like that - they are the big meet of the season for decent swimmers, but just a warm-up to nationals for elites. All of the racers will train hard - often together - and only the non-elites are tapered and shaved (I.e., peaked for the meet). But the elites still win; they just outclass everyone else, often precisely b/c of technique.
Posted by phred | Link to this comment | 07-28-05 8:13 AM
Phred,
What does the term "tapered" mean when referring to swimmers? I doubt it has anything to do with candle wax?
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-28-05 8:33 AM
"Tapering" is the reduction of workout intensity leading up to a meet.
Phred, I think you're thinking of Tom Dolan. I'm not sure I understand the distinction between technique and formula. Wait, unless you're saying that you can have very good technique that departs from the formula of "what you're supposed to do." Yeah, absolutely.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-28-05 8:45 AM
ogged,
"Tapering" is the reduction of workout intensity leading up to a meet.
Oh. That is not nearly as fun as what I was imagining.
My advice has always been to start slow and then taper off.
Actually one reason I love weight lifting is because the less you do the stronger you are.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-28-05 8:58 AM
ogged,
Yeah, just that there is a lot of variation in what constitutes good technique.
I don't think it was Dolan; it was earlier I believe. I think the dude swam the 400 free, but I don't think he medaled.
Posted by phred | Link to this comment | 07-28-05 9:30 AM
I hope those Something Awful form goons know about this picture. Classic Photoshop phodder.
Posted by ymr049c | Link to this comment | 07-29-05 8:54 PM
You think it needs to be photoshopped?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-29-05 8:55 PM
Imagine all the funny heads/bodies you could put parts of the swimmer on.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 07-29-05 8:56 PM
Or scenarios in which he could appear.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07-29-05 8:59 PM