No, it's a direct refusal. The more I think about it, the more I think I'm thinking of the common misuse of "demurral" that you'll find in the google search. Is there a word that means what people are using "demurral" to mean?
b-wo's right, but I have heard 'demur' used to mean 'to defer an awkward question' more often that I've heard it used to mean 'linger' or 'to take exception to'.
Rather like that old chestnut on the meaning of 'livid', which I didn't even realize was a color word until sometime early in graduate school.
Well, maybe it's a philosophy chesnut. About reference shifts and words.
But its primary meaning is 'bluish-white; pale'; most people thought it meant 'reddish', a meaning which is now listed due to the prevalence of this mistake. I thought it meant 'enraged; to go pale with anger', which according to www.m-w.com is the third acceptable meaning.
I'd have said 'demur' as well -- I had no idea that wasn't legitimate usage. This is maddening, because I'm certain that there is a word for the concept in question (not 'prevaricate' - AFAIK that's a straight synonym for 'lie') but I can't put my finger on it.
"To delay or hesitate" is an archaic meaning of demur, whence, one might conjecture, the "polite demurral" and the use of "demur" to indicate a reluctance to do something.
As the conventional/modern use of "demur" denotes an objection, it isn't completely off-base to use it in the context of refusing to answer a question; one is objecting to answering said question.
OTOH, lemur is spelt similarly, a lemur is a long-tailed arboreal primate of Madagascar, a primate is an archbishop, and an arch bishop is a playful chess piece, so one could declare that one is merely engaging in something similar to a playful game in a tree on an island when one refuses to reveal one's confidential sources. Whether this will keep Judith Miller out of jail remains to be seen.
So does this mean that the 4 guitaristes de l'apocalypso-bar tune "les murs, les murs, et derriere, .... la lumiere" is about how the sun shines out the long-tailed ass of a priest?
Peachy's clever refusal to demur on her alias outwits the filter!
And--I think I'm going to start a movement. We need a word for this, we don't have one, we already have a word for "refuse," let's go descriptivist and say "demur" can mean "refuse to answer."
It's also a mark of status. If you live in a coop, you are probably poor, and more to the point, a chicken. By contrast, your typical coöp-dweller has more money, fewer feathers, and a less embarrasingly gauche response to decapitation. In this instance, the diæresis make manifest in our language the (rarely superable) urbanite-poultry divide.
But Standpipe, the diæresis in coöp is not itself a mark of status, but rather a means of distinguishing in writing a high-status living situation from a low. If anything, diæreses are a mark of low status, since they signifiy that you couldn't afford to bring an adequate supply of drinking water with you.
That's a poor example. Anyone travelling internationally is already near the top of the heap, in absolute terms. I'd be more receptive to an argument that considered the use of extravagant diacritics as overcompensation for class insecurity.
Ben, I will grant that without diæreses, there can be no poöperation. But you confuse these dots for doots. It may resemble a colon rotated ninety degrees, but there's more to it than your eliminationist rhetoric would suggest.
A colon rotated 90 degrees would definitely lend more to the situation than eliminationist rhetoric...painful elimination I would suspect to be a huge part of that.
Are you sure you aren't importing reticence from "demure"? (You're right that that's not what "demur" means.)
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 9:51 PM
In fact I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I'm doing.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 9:58 PM
But if you google "polite demurral," you'll see that it seems lots of people are doing the same thing.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 10:00 PM
Equivocate, maybe?
Posted by Walter Sobchak | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 10:09 PM
No, it's a direct refusal. The more I think about it, the more I think I'm thinking of the common misuse of "demurral" that you'll find in the google search. Is there a word that means what people are using "demurral" to mean?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 10:11 PM
b-wo's right, but I have heard 'demur' used to mean 'to defer an awkward question' more often that I've heard it used to mean 'linger' or 'to take exception to'.
Rather like that old chestnut on the meaning of 'livid', which I didn't even realize was a color word until sometime early in graduate school.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 10:13 PM
"hedge"?
Posted by Walter Sobchak | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 10:15 PM
There's an old chestnut about "livid"?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 10:16 PM
Well, maybe it's a philosophy chesnut. About reference shifts and words.
But its primary meaning is 'bluish-white; pale'; most people thought it meant 'reddish', a meaning which is now listed due to the prevalence of this mistake. I thought it meant 'enraged; to go pale with anger', which according to www.m-w.com is the third acceptable meaning.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 1-05 10:46 PM
One can also violently demur, though I admit not so many people seem to have taken up the practice.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 8:25 AM
"prevaricate"?
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 9:31 AM
When I see 'prevaricate' I think 'lie'.
I'd have said 'demur'. Now nobody will respect me anymore.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:14 AM
A demurral is a disagreement, though, not an avoidance of the question.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:17 AM
He knows that now, hence the "nobody will respect me...."
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:19 AM
I didn't say I'd have been right.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:19 AM
I'd have said 'demur' as well -- I had no idea that wasn't legitimate usage. This is maddening, because I'm certain that there is a word for the concept in question (not 'prevaricate' - AFAIK that's a straight synonym for 'lie') but I can't put my finger on it.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:20 AM
God, nobody chimes in with "nobody respected you anyway."
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:20 AM
It's so obvious.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:36 AM
When everyone is of the same opinion it can be left unsaid, but implied by the silence.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:37 AM
And I would have thought demur too, but I looked it up before (not) posting my answer. How about "declined to comment"?
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:39 AM
So everyone demurred on "Nobody respects you anyway"?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:40 AM
Incidentally, is there a reason why the title of this post consists of those letters in that order?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:43 AM
I was aiming for inarticulately word-like.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:48 AM
"Inarticulably," maybe.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:49 AM
I've got it!
The question is, what is the opposite of "to respond"?
So the answer must be, "to respond with a moustache".
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:50 AM
"To delay or hesitate" is an archaic meaning of demur, whence, one might conjecture, the "polite demurral" and the use of "demur" to indicate a reluctance to do something.
As the conventional/modern use of "demur" denotes an objection, it isn't completely off-base to use it in the context of refusing to answer a question; one is objecting to answering said question.
OTOH, lemur is spelt similarly, a lemur is a long-tailed arboreal primate of Madagascar, a primate is an archbishop, and an arch bishop is a playful chess piece, so one could declare that one is merely engaging in something similar to a playful game in a tree on an island when one refuses to reveal one's confidential sources. Whether this will keep Judith Miller out of jail remains to be seen.
Posted by DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 12:00 PM
So does this mean that the 4 guitaristes de l'apocalypso-bar tune "les murs, les murs, et derriere, .... la lumiere" is about how the sun shines out the long-tailed ass of a priest?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 12:18 PM
Perhaps the person is being a bit "dodgy" when it comes to the questioning. The personality type is avoidant and their simply mostly being an "ass".
However I'm thinking of words like "placate" and "dubious"
hmm "avert", "eschew", "renounce", "desist", "cop out"
you don't mean in the sense to fool do you?
Posted by Peachy Zine or Scary Blondell, you choose | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 12:29 PM
Perhaps the person is being a bit "dodgy" when it comes to the questioning. The personality type is avoidant and their simply mostly being an "ass".
However I'm thinking of words like "placate" and "dubious"
hmm "avert", "eschew", "renounce", "desist", "cop out"
you don't mean in the sense to fool do you?
Posted by Peachy Zine | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 12:30 PM
Peachy's clever refusal to demur on her alias outwits the filter!
And--I think I'm going to start a movement. We need a word for this, we don't have one, we already have a word for "refuse," let's go descriptivist and say "demur" can mean "refuse to answer."
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 3:16 PM
I'm on board. In fact, the "'demur' means 'refuse'" battle is almost lost, so we might as well switch sides.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 3:29 PM
I demur, violently.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 3:41 PM
Peachy, if you're reading, 30 referred to this and the preceding thread.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 3:41 PM
You have a better idea?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 3:42 PM
Wolfson has already failed to offer an opinion! The battle is almost won.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 3:42 PM
In response to 34, I merely offer the opinion that not everything is expressible in just one word.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 4:22 PM
Weak.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 4:26 PM
No sooner have I thrown my lot in with Weiner than the New Yorker goes and uses "demurral" correctly.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 6:05 PM
It's rarely a good idea to throw one's lot in with someone named "Weiner".
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 6:07 PM
The New Yorker's all fucked up like that.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 6:19 PM
You going to listen to a magazine that puts a diaeresis on cooperate?
Posted by Kriston | Link to this comment | 07- 2-05 10:07 PM
You'd listen to a magazine that doesn't put a diaresis on cooperate?
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 3-05 1:23 AM
*in best Ralph Wiggum voice*
What's a diaresis?
Posted by Stewart Kelly | Link to this comment | 07- 4-05 12:58 AM
It's those two dots, not unlike an umlaut, that are used to show that a vowel is pronounced as a separate syllable:
diëresis, coöperate
(Kriston's use of the diphthong, 'diaeresis', also seems to be acceptable.)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 4-05 8:14 AM
It's also a mark of status. If you live in a coop, you are probably poor, and more to the point, a chicken. By contrast, your typical coöp-dweller has more money, fewer feathers, and a less embarrasingly gauche response to decapitation. In this instance, the diæresis make manifest in our language the (rarely superable) urbanite-poultry divide.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 4-05 3:52 PM
Urbanites who move to coops also run the risk of becoming country-fried.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 4-05 3:56 PM
But Standpipe, the diæresis in coöp is not itself a mark of status, but rather a means of distinguishing in writing a high-status living situation from a low. If anything, diæreses are a mark of low status, since they signifiy that you couldn't afford to bring an adequate supply of drinking water with you.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 4-05 4:06 PM
That's a poor example. Anyone travelling internationally is already near the top of the heap, in absolute terms. I'd be more receptive to an argument that considered the use of extravagant diacritics as overcompensation for class insecurity.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 4-05 7:01 PM
But relative terms are the relevant terms, Bridgeplate. And it's not like it's so difficult to go to Mexico from California, say.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 4-05 7:03 PM
Yes, eb, and woe betide those solitary cityfolk with the ill fortune to lodge at the Lonley Roasters Motel, or worse, Bawk's Suites for Solo Pollo.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 4-05 7:08 PM
Ben, I will grant that without diæreses, there can be no poöperation. But you confuse these dots for doots. It may resemble a colon rotated ninety degrees, but there's more to it than your eliminationist rhetoric would suggest.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 5-05 8:09 AM
A colon rotated 90 degrees would definitely lend more to the situation than eliminationist rhetoric...painful elimination I would suspect to be a huge part of that.
ouch!
Posted by PeachyZine | Link to this comment | 07-11-05 7:51 AM
Leon Redbone knows from "demur":
I want to be seduced, I want a woman to take me out to dinner for two
I want to see her eyes gettin' moody,
Flirtin' with the thought of what flirtin' can lead to
I want to act real cool, have her think about gettin' little me in bed
Have a chat about Magna Charta, or Puerto Vallarta, or somethin' Gandhi said
I might demur politely, falter slightly, if she starts to fondle my knee,
But I'm relatively certain I'd compromise if I know me
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08-20-05 10:52 AM
But couldn't that be "refuse to answer the [implicit] question"? First you say "I don't know..." then you compromise. Faltering isn't refusing.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 08-20-05 12:40 PM
I just thought that "evade" might have been the word we were originally looking for.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08-20-05 1:54 PM
But the word I want covers cases in which you say, "I don't know" or "It's too soon to tell" or something, which doesn't count as an evasion.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 08-22-05 10:54 AM