This (scroll down for photos) actually looks pretty interesting, but they were only giving tours in Flemish the day that I was there. This, on the other hand, isn't really worth seeing.
The girls in Brussel's are friendly. As far as French goes, the Brusselians dialect is different enough from French French that I struggled with it, but the people I talked with were very nice and switched to a, more formal I suppose, manner of speaking which I understood.
Brussels gauffres are different from Liege gauffres. This you should know. Brussels gauffres are rectangular, whereas the Liege variety are irregular. This is not unimportant.
Also, best to call the language "Flemish" and not "Dutch."
Trappist beer is heaven. My favorite was the Rochefort.
"Samurai" sauce on your frites is nasty. Do not attempt, no matter how bored you get of mayonnaise. In fact, I would avoid all other sauces but mayo.
If you go to Liege, I can suggest a few places to visit.
My paternal grandparents were in the foreign service. My dad was born in New Zealand, lived in Iceland and Jamaica, and visited a staggering number of other places. He's got affectionate stories to tell about every place he went and the people he met there.
Except Belgium. He lived there for several years, and he says the Belgians are assholes. Particularly the French-speaking ones.
9: Ah, the belgians were fun. One thing, though. Malheursement, Belgium, Liege at least, has some of the worst coffee in Europe. And some of the pricier. It's drinkable, but, if you're expecting good European coffee, you will be disappointed. Brussles may be different, since they are known for their cuisine.
As for 10: the missus-to-be has been accepted to do an all-expenses-paid Doctorate in European Union and Human Rights Law at Leuven (sp?). We've tried living on different continents in the past and didn't like that arrangement at all, no sir, so I'm following along after.
So I'll have to check out the baking scene in Brussels, or else maybe start practicing law again, or teach, or something, we'll figure it out. Oh and I'm not running the bakery in NYC, but I am second in command (of two bakers), and as of next week will be head baker.
Surprisingly, the baking scene in Liege was fairly pitiful. I didn't really notice in Brussels. There's a chain bakery, Point Chaud, and it's OK, but man is it a far cry from Paris.
And I'm just going to refuse to listen to all the haters (or at least the hatery parts of their posts; thanks for the non-hatery parts, Michael!)
As far as French goes, the Brusselians dialect is different enough from French French that I struggled with it, but the people I talked with were very nice and switched to a, more formal I suppose, manner of speaking which I understood.
Did you bust out any Cajun on them? Oh and I'm glad to know the girls in Brussels are friendly, but did you not see the part about that I'm going there with my fiancee?
Oh, and a pitiful baking scene just means there will be more room for my (yes awesome) baking talent to shine. I will not be dissuaded from my excitement at the impending move!
did you not see the part about that I'm going there with my fiancee?
I don't make presumptions about your personal life.
Did you bust out any Cajun on them?
I don't actually speak Cajun, (i'm not a resident Louisianan, but I should learn!) but the points of comparison did make interesting conversation topics. We did try southern-fried French, and they understood that fine.
I'm not tryin to be hatery, I'm just a bit of a food snob, I suppose. And, believe me, I was quite happy eating over there. Galler chocolate is...is...I don't know, but it's fucking good. And the cheese! I wanna go back.
I'm just relieved to know that (apparently, since Michael mentioned only the girls) the boys in Brussels aren't friendly.
Er, no, didn't mean to imply that. They're quite friendly to the ladyfolk. It's kinda like stereoptypical construction workers all around you. Have fun.
I should point out that I was with girls in their late teens to early twenties. It may be different for the 30-somethings. (I think that's your age-range, at least)
Re 5 and 8: As late as the 18th century, "Dutch" was divided between High and Low Dutch; High being what we now call German, low being Dutch. I'd like to think that's one reason why no one knows when or whether to say Flemish or Dutch. There's something significant about Belgium and Lingua Franca that I can't recall but nevertheless probably has some bearing on the lingual tapestry of the place (but little, admittedly, to the conversation).
Never been to Belgium. But what I do know is... don't miss the bike racing. I suspect once April comes, you'll be just fine if you know the names Eddy Merckx and Tom Boonen.
And maybe revisit that old frites thread. You'll want to think about condiments.
i've been to brussels 3 times, all for less than a week, and i don't speak any flemish, but my french is pretty good. and i got around just fine. of course, i was around a lot of touristy places, so a ton of the people spoke english anyway.
Re: Flemish v. Dutch, wikipedia seems to have some good info. It actually looks like the linguistic situation in Belgium is quite varied, complicated, and interesting. Can't wait to start observing.
Mitch, how did you become head baker so fast? Did you have a pre-lawyering life as a baker, or what?
Mainly it was being in the right place at the right time (with some relevant skills). It's a small outfit (only me and the head baker), and the head baker is heading back to school (PhD in Philosophy, naturally (in North Carolina)). I've been an avid home baker (and cook generally) for years, and I enjoy hosting largish-scale dinner parties and suchlike. Since the bakery is currently a small wholesale operation and the product is very artisinal, those home skills translated easily into production on a larger scale. Plus I really enjoy it and I'm conscientious, dedicated, a hard worker, detail-oriented, etc. and get along well both with the head baker and the founder.
Speaking of which, I hope said founder isn't an unfogged reader. I won't see her till Monday to tell her and we literally just found out yesterday about the opportunity, and it was totally out of the blue and not actively sought after (the original plan was for the future missus to maybe apply for a Doctoral program somewhere in the EU to start in Fall 2006).
And hey, girl27 is back! I was afraid maybe it was the fact that I implied she was a shrew that had driven her away (it was probably just latent aggression on my part that she's so obviously a much better porn-movie-title-generator than I, or anyone for that matter). And now it's my situation that brought her back again!
Self-important? Moi??
girl27, I'll see about cultivating an interest in watching other people ride bicycles. To be honest I really don't see that happening, but then you never know.
And that picture totally captures my mental image of ogged.
It doesn't really make me want to watch bike racing much, though. Yes I know he's super-fit and could almost certainly kick my ass, and the joie de vivre is endearing, but still, um, no.
Funny thing about the picture linked in 34—I'd expect him to be wearing those special shoes which snap onto the special pedals, so you can pedal up as well as down. Pedal circles, dude!
Ive been living here for about a year and half and i can say that some belgian are kind enough but most of them are stupid bunch of assholes which i didn't like! so stupid and being proud of their stupid dialect! some of them are just so fucking intolerable that they need to be burn in hell!
Unless it's exhibited by Australlians. Then it's just fucking intolerable. "Take that 'strine and shove it back in your wallaby, mate" is what I always say.
This (scroll down for photos) actually looks pretty interesting, but they were only giving tours in Flemish the day that I was there. This, on the other hand, isn't really worth seeing.
Sorry, I have no useful, non-cloacal advice.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:29 PM
Wow, my own dedicated Unfogged post! This almost makes up for never getting banned!
But um, I'm not sure how, but um, somehow the title of the post ended up as "Weenie". Surely a mistake, non?
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:36 PM
"Weenie" is a Dutch term for immigrants and resident aliens.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:37 PM
Flemish. They speak Flemish in Belgium.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:40 PM
Flemish. They speak Flemish in Belgium.
And French, and Dutch, and even a bit of German.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:42 PM
Walloon
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:43 PM
Eb, I was just explaining ogged's presumptive rationale. You got a problem with it, take it up with him.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:44 PM
I spent 3 weeks in Liege, but visited Brussels.
The girls in Brussel's are friendly. As far as French goes, the Brusselians dialect is different enough from French French that I struggled with it, but the people I talked with were very nice and switched to a, more formal I suppose, manner of speaking which I understood.
Brussels gauffres are different from Liege gauffres. This you should know. Brussels gauffres are rectangular, whereas the Liege variety are irregular. This is not unimportant.
Also, best to call the language "Flemish" and not "Dutch."
Trappist beer is heaven. My favorite was the Rochefort.
"Samurai" sauce on your frites is nasty. Do not attempt, no matter how bored you get of mayonnaise. In fact, I would avoid all other sauces but mayo.
If you go to Liege, I can suggest a few places to visit.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:45 PM
My paternal grandparents were in the foreign service. My dad was born in New Zealand, lived in Iceland and Jamaica, and visited a staggering number of other places. He's got affectionate stories to tell about every place he went and the people he met there.
Except Belgium. He lived there for several years, and he says the Belgians are assholes. Particularly the French-speaking ones.
Anyway, enjoy your trip.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:52 PM
Anyway, Mitch, why the move, if you don't mind my asking? I though you were running a bakery in NYC, which I alwasy thought was really freakin' cool.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:53 PM
That's probably just due to the long history of cultural conflict and border clashes between Belgium and New Zealand.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:54 PM
9: Ah, the belgians were fun. One thing, though. Malheursement, Belgium, Liege at least, has some of the worst coffee in Europe. And some of the pricier. It's drinkable, but, if you're expecting good European coffee, you will be disappointed. Brussles may be different, since they are known for their cuisine.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 10:57 PM
11 was to 9. I knew I should have quoted!
As for 10: the missus-to-be has been accepted to do an all-expenses-paid Doctorate in European Union and Human Rights Law at Leuven (sp?). We've tried living on different continents in the past and didn't like that arrangement at all, no sir, so I'm following along after.
So I'll have to check out the baking scene in Brussels, or else maybe start practicing law again, or teach, or something, we'll figure it out. Oh and I'm not running the bakery in NYC, but I am second in command (of two bakers), and as of next week will be head baker.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:01 PM
Oh, she'll be at Leuven? I know people who went there. I'll pass along your question.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:04 PM
Surprisingly, the baking scene in Liege was fairly pitiful. I didn't really notice in Brussels. There's a chain bakery, Point Chaud, and it's OK, but man is it a far cry from Paris.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:05 PM
Geez, people. The folks I know who went to Leuven loved it, and kept telling me to go.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:09 PM
Thanks for all the legwork, ogged, you're a star.
And I'm just going to refuse to listen to all the haters (or at least the hatery parts of their posts; thanks for the non-hatery parts, Michael!)
As far as French goes, the Brusselians dialect is different enough from French French that I struggled with it, but the people I talked with were very nice and switched to a, more formal I suppose, manner of speaking which I understood.
Did you bust out any Cajun on them? Oh and I'm glad to know the girls in Brussels are friendly, but did you not see the part about that I'm going there with my fiancee?
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:27 PM
Oh, and a pitiful baking scene just means there will be more room for my (yes awesome) baking talent to shine. I will not be dissuaded from my excitement at the impending move!
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:29 PM
"Weenie" is a Dutch term for immigrants and resident aliens.
Did it orignally refer only to diplomats from the Austrian capital, but then it took on a wider application to resident aliens in general?
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:31 PM
I'm glad to know the girls in Brussels are friendly, but did you not see the part about that I'm going there with my fiancee?
Always have a backup plan...
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:32 PM
Always have a backup plan...
I'm just relieved to know that (apparently, since Michael mentioned only the girls) the boys in Brussels aren't friendly.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:35 PM
18: that's what i meant to imply, Mitch!
did you not see the part about that I'm going there with my fiancee?
I don't make presumptions about your personal life.
Did you bust out any Cajun on them?
I don't actually speak Cajun, (i'm not a resident Louisianan, but I should learn!) but the points of comparison did make interesting conversation topics. We did try southern-fried French, and they understood that fine.
I'm not tryin to be hatery, I'm just a bit of a food snob, I suppose. And, believe me, I was quite happy eating over there. Galler chocolate is...is...I don't know, but it's fucking good. And the cheese! I wanna go back.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:40 PM
I'm just relieved to know that (apparently, since Michael mentioned only the girls) the boys in Brussels aren't friendly.
Er, no, didn't mean to imply that. They're quite friendly to the ladyfolk. It's kinda like stereoptypical construction workers all around you. Have fun.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 8-05 11:43 PM
I should point out that I was with girls in their late teens to early twenties. It may be different for the 30-somethings. (I think that's your age-range, at least)
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 12:29 AM
Re 5 and 8: As late as the 18th century, "Dutch" was divided between High and Low Dutch; High being what we now call German, low being Dutch. I'd like to think that's one reason why no one knows when or whether to say Flemish or Dutch. There's something significant about Belgium and Lingua Franca that I can't recall but nevertheless probably has some bearing on the lingual tapestry of the place (but little, admittedly, to the conversation).
Posted by Kriston | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 12:53 AM
I'd like to think that's one reason why no one knows when or whether to say Flemish or Dutch.
To my understanding, it's more of a political differanciation than a linguistic one.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 1:31 AM
Mitch, how did you become head baker so fast? Did you have a pre-lawyering life as a baker, or what?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:54 AM
I can't help much with Brussels. I don't even like the sprouts.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 10:57 AM
Very, very exciting.
Never been to Belgium. But what I do know is... don't miss the bike racing. I suspect once April comes, you'll be just fine if you know the names Eddy Merckx and Tom Boonen.
And maybe revisit that old frites thread. You'll want to think about condiments.
Posted by girl27 | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 1:16 PM
Belgium doesn't exist.
http://zapatopi.net/belgium.html
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 1:32 PM
27! Welcome back! Ogged was missing you.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 1:48 PM
i've been to brussels 3 times, all for less than a week, and i don't speak any flemish, but my french is pretty good. and i got around just fine. of course, i was around a lot of touristy places, so a ton of the people spoke english anyway.
and the frites, oh, the frites.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 2:11 PM
Re: Flemish v. Dutch, wikipedia seems to have some good info. It actually looks like the linguistic situation in Belgium is quite varied, complicated, and interesting. Can't wait to start observing.
Mitch, how did you become head baker so fast? Did you have a pre-lawyering life as a baker, or what?
Mainly it was being in the right place at the right time (with some relevant skills). It's a small outfit (only me and the head baker), and the head baker is heading back to school (PhD in Philosophy, naturally (in North Carolina)). I've been an avid home baker (and cook generally) for years, and I enjoy hosting largish-scale dinner parties and suchlike. Since the bakery is currently a small wholesale operation and the product is very artisinal, those home skills translated easily into production on a larger scale. Plus I really enjoy it and I'm conscientious, dedicated, a hard worker, detail-oriented, etc. and get along well both with the head baker and the founder.
Speaking of which, I hope said founder isn't an unfogged reader. I won't see her till Monday to tell her and we literally just found out yesterday about the opportunity, and it was totally out of the blue and not actively sought after (the original plan was for the future missus to maybe apply for a Doctoral program somewhere in the EU to start in Fall 2006).
And hey, girl27 is back! I was afraid maybe it was the fact that I implied she was a shrew that had driven her away (it was probably just latent aggression on my part that she's so obviously a much better porn-movie-title-generator than I, or anyone for that matter). And now it's my situation that brought her back again!
Self-important? Moi??
girl27, I'll see about cultivating an interest in watching other people ride bicycles. To be honest I really don't see that happening, but then you never know.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 2:17 PM
Speaking of bike racing, this guy's name almost fits the subject line of the post.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 3:06 PM
Speaking of bike racing, this guy's name almost fits the subject line of the post.
So does this guy's name.
And that picture totally captures my mental image of ogged.
It doesn't really make me want to watch bike racing much, though. Yes I know he's super-fit and could almost certainly kick my ass, and the joie de vivre is endearing, but still, um, no.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:14 PM
Funny thing about the picture linked in 34—I'd expect him to be wearing those special shoes which snap onto the special pedals, so you can pedal up as well as down. Pedal circles, dude!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:18 PM
Ben, that was your cue to tell them I don't look like that. (And they let them change shoes before they get on the podium.)
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:22 PM
Sorry ogged. Let's start over, from comment 32.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:29 PM
and the frites, oh, the frites..."
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:30 PM
Re: Flemish v. Dutch, wikipedia seems to have . . .
Am I doing this right???
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:46 PM
Wolfson seems to have abandoned us to this game with no rules. Anyway, I don't think I look like Weening; I hope I don't look like him.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:49 PM
I haven't abandoned you, ogged, but I can't really deliver my line until eb sets me up, now can I?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:54 PM
Speaking of bike racing, this guy's name almost fits the subject line of the post.
Posted by be | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 7:58 PM
Ooged doesn't look like that. At least he hopes he doesn't.
Me, I can see a slight resemblance.
Posted by ben woolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:17 PM
ben, why must you be such a little bitch?
Posted by ooged | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:18 PM
Hey, this is fun!
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:18 PM
Whatever.
Posted by Mítch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:21 PM
If you want to be childish, that's your business, I guess.
Posted by Mitch Milļs | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:22 PM
I, however, wouldn't stoop to such levels.
Posted by Mitch Milλs | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:23 PM
Hey, what in tarnation is that "l" with the little mark beneath it? Which language uses that? What sound does it indicate?
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:23 PM
Of childishness, that is.
Posted by Ωitch Ωills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:24 PM
Dude, you are soooo l33t.
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:25 PM
Fuckin' right I am!
Posted by βην ωολφσον | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:28 PM
NOT!
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 8:43 PM
I am sore burnt!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 9-05 9:22 PM
Ive been living here for about a year and half and i can say that some belgian are kind enough but most of them are stupid bunch of assholes which i didn't like! so stupid and being proud of their stupid dialect! some of them are just so fucking intolerable that they need to be burn in hell!
Posted by andrew | Link to this comment | 08-27-05 4:20 PM
Eh, I find dialect-pride endearing.
Unless it's exhibited by Australlians. Then it's just fucking intolerable. "Take that 'strine and shove it back in your wallaby, mate" is what I always say.
(Sotto voce, of course, Australlians are BIG)
Posted by Mitch Mills | Link to this comment | 08-28-05 7:15 AM