Is that why they're acting? It seemed more like a deranged nobility: they're striking a blow for Muslims who really do have it bad elsewhere. The mysterious force is that these guys, regular Brits really, can come to see anonymous suffering Muslims elsewhere as "their people." Islam gives them discipline in their own lives, and also gives those lives meaning by making them part of a global struggle.
Yes. I think the question about identification is crucial: why see yourselves as a cell of the global body of Islam, rather than a member of a pluralistic Britain?
When you ask it that way, I can think of some answers: it's easier to belong to something notional, the enchantment of which can't be dispelled by everyday events. And it's far more satisfying to think you're fighting in a global war than to think that the best you can do is make a decent living and maybe move to a slightly nicer neighborhood.
Muslim preachers and propagandists have really found the nerve center of a lot of disenchanted young men all over the world.
Because nobody signifying Britain has ever come up to them and told them what an honor it is to be British, how much Britain relishes their being British, etc.
Well, that's not exactly what I was saying (the Living in Pakistan part). If we want to we can think of it as though being radically Muslim (I don't mean all Muslims here as it is entirely possible and far more commom for Muslims to coexist peaceably with everyone) and being British were like being members of clubs. Only, in one club, higher ups keep telling you how great it is you are a member of their club and all the rewards you are going to get. The other club is a shadowy figure that makes sure that your life runs smoothly, tries to protect you from bad things, and generally promotes a standardish quality of life. But you never see this second club, and nobody ever tells you how proud you should be to be a member of the club, how the club is helping you, etc. Naturally, you find yourself associating more and more with the first club as you take the second club for granted.
A hundred years ago, radical anarchists and Marxist-Leninists were drawn primarily from the upper and middle classes, rather than from the proletariat upon whose behalf they professed to act. They still are today, of course, but unlike then, their influence is negligible. I suspect the dynamic is much the same here.
When Richard Reid was arrested, he was upset that there were no cameras. It's not surprising that alienated youth should internalize the pop culture part of living in a western nation (you're a superhero!) and not internalize the fundamental values of liberalism (everyone has the same basic rights), especially when one realizes that a lot of these kids have been treated quite illiberally by the powers that be in their society.
What I'm saying is that of course it's comparatively spoiled, self-involved kids who get sucked into these sorts of cults. And frankly, if their cult's raison d'etre wasn't blowing up innocent people, it wouldn't be a big deal. It's the same social pathology as extremist PETA types (although violence hasn't siezed that movement nearly as powerfully).
do you really have it so bad
Is that why they're acting? It seemed more like a deranged nobility: they're striking a blow for Muslims who really do have it bad elsewhere. The mysterious force is that these guys, regular Brits really, can come to see anonymous suffering Muslims elsewhere as "their people." Islam gives them discipline in their own lives, and also gives those lives meaning by making them part of a global struggle.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 12:08 PM
Yes. I think the question about identification is crucial: why see yourselves as a cell of the global body of Islam, rather than a member of a pluralistic Britain?
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 12:36 PM
When you ask it that way, I can think of some answers: it's easier to belong to something notional, the enchantment of which can't be dispelled by everyday events. And it's far more satisfying to think you're fighting in a global war than to think that the best you can do is make a decent living and maybe move to a slightly nicer neighborhood.
Muslim preachers and propagandists have really found the nerve center of a lot of disenchanted young men all over the world.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 1:05 PM
Because nobody signifying Britain has ever come up to them and told them what an honor it is to be British, how much Britain relishes their being British, etc.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 1:05 PM
[redacted]
Posted by [redacted] | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 1:42 PM
Well, that's not exactly what I was saying (the Living in Pakistan part). If we want to we can think of it as though being radically Muslim (I don't mean all Muslims here as it is entirely possible and far more commom for Muslims to coexist peaceably with everyone) and being British were like being members of clubs. Only, in one club, higher ups keep telling you how great it is you are a member of their club and all the rewards you are going to get. The other club is a shadowy figure that makes sure that your life runs smoothly, tries to protect you from bad things, and generally promotes a standardish quality of life. But you never see this second club, and nobody ever tells you how proud you should be to be a member of the club, how the club is helping you, etc. Naturally, you find yourself associating more and more with the first club as you take the second club for granted.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 1:49 PM
"do you really have it so bad?"
A hundred years ago, radical anarchists and Marxist-Leninists were drawn primarily from the upper and middle classes, rather than from the proletariat upon whose behalf they professed to act. They still are today, of course, but unlike then, their influence is negligible. I suspect the dynamic is much the same here.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 2:22 PM
Rod Steiger's character in "Duck, You Sucker" has a great monologue about that, apo.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 2:29 PM
Apparently, SDS membership followed this pattern in the later 60s: the higher up in the organization, the wealthier the family background.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 07-31-05 2:36 PM
Surely you all are aware of Maslow's hierarchy of needs?
Satisfying one level of needs does not make one satisfied or content. It merely opens up the next level of needs.
British society may bring these guys the basic physical needs but it does not give them a way to feel important.
In America I have a need to feel respected and important, at least in some way.
On a deserted Island I'd have a need for food and water.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 8:24 AM
Maslow is full of crap.
When Richard Reid was arrested, he was upset that there were no cameras. It's not surprising that alienated youth should internalize the pop culture part of living in a western nation (you're a superhero!) and not internalize the fundamental values of liberalism (everyone has the same basic rights), especially when one realizes that a lot of these kids have been treated quite illiberally by the powers that be in their society.
What I'm saying is that of course it's comparatively spoiled, self-involved kids who get sucked into these sorts of cults. And frankly, if their cult's raison d'etre wasn't blowing up innocent people, it wouldn't be a big deal. It's the same social pathology as extremist PETA types (although violence hasn't siezed that movement nearly as powerfully).
Posted by theorajones | Link to this comment | 08- 2-05 8:16 AM