>Overall Grade: D. Sadly, this is not a winning play for the long haul. If Dove keeps running ads like this, women will get bored with the feel-good, politically correct message. Eventually (though perhaps only subconsciously), they'll come to think of Dove as the brand for fat girls. Talk about "real beauty" all you want—once you're the brand for fat girls, you're toast.
This is a pretty odd evaluation. Sadly, he doesn't sound so sad.
If CIA spokeswoman Michelle Neff was full-figured, and if she was won away from the intelligence agency mouthpiece gig by Current, then some of the links might be related. I can't think how to work in a Google Maps hack.
Back on topic: can someone explain to me how soap makes you fat? I know soap IS fat (thank you, Fight Club), but I think it's pretty petty to assert that association with "the brand [of soap] for fat girls" is going to harm them. Women are smarter than that. Better, men are going to think some of these women are just fine, thank you, and maybe they'll look into Dove. Caveat: if they use only fat chicks in the ads, then they really are trying to be "the brand for fat girls." Best as I can tell there are still a few members of the itty bitty titty committee on the ads thus far.
diddy, given that particular brands of cigarettes can be associated with the young and hip, or the old and decrepit, or with various races, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that a soap could come to be associated with fat women. I mean, these bizarre associations are the heart of advertisting.
But ogged, you're not comparing like goods. Everyone buys soap. Not everyone buys cigarettes. You can atomize that market a lot more easily. Plus haven't they inoculated themselves against exactly that criticism by including such a diverse set of models?
'twas but one example. Old guy cars, chick cars, lesbian cars. Kid soft drinks, adult soft drinks, programmer soft drinks. Really, we could go on all day. And though not all the Dove models are the same size, none are a traditional model size.
Anyway, while one point of advertising is to associate oneself with a group, another goal is to create an emotional reaction to the product. Certain women will want to associate themselves with ordinary women and appreciate Dove's efforts, and probably still more who think less about grouping will have a positive reaction to the ads, which may incline them to buy the Dove brand.
So I won't RTFA cause I think I can get it all from what's been said, but I gather that the problem is people buy from people they want to be like, not people that they are like. By that standard, nobody would by energizer batteries because everyone wants a normal life where their kids don't put eggs in the drier and don't jump on the couch. Or they wouldn't want to do Jenny Craig (or whatever it is Kirstie Alley is pimping nowadays).
The fact of the matter is that Dove isn't saying that fat people should use their stuff. They're saying that normal people should and do. Remember, firming cream isn't the only thing they are selling this way. I think they've got some deodorant TV spots as well. Whether being yourself will sell soap and deodorant (such glamourous products, I know) remains to be seen; methinks it will be a testement of whether women today still aspire to be Twiggy, or if they want to be themselves.
Come to think of it, beyond the see-you-later-alligator ads with Angie Harmon-Seahorn and the like (were they Dove commercials, or Vaseline commercials for men???), I don't think Dove always used supermodel-esque models. I think they used very fit models, but never any who were, as I recall, runway types.
L. re: 9 -- That's a riot. I had profs there who held their office hours at bars. Perhaps one of the lessons in the curriculum is "Teaching Assistants shouldn't offer their students 30 extra credit points on their final if they can finish a half a bottle of tequila in 2 hours." (Also known as "How Becks got an A in Spanish 203")
I'm not sure what demographic Al Gore cares about. The current promo is for a show or spot on an Abercombie and Fitch male model about the burden or vicisitudes (help with spelling please) or something of masculine beauty.
>Overall Grade: D. Sadly, this is not a winning play for the long haul. If Dove keeps running ads like this, women will get bored with the feel-good, politically correct message. Eventually (though perhaps only subconsciously), they'll come to think of Dove as the brand for fat girls. Talk about "real beauty" all you want—once you're the brand for fat girls, you're toast.
This is a pretty odd evaluation. Sadly, he doesn't sound so sad.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:24 PM
Yeah, I thought that was sharp.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:26 PM
If CIA spokeswoman Michelle Neff was full-figured, and if she was won away from the intelligence agency mouthpiece gig by Current, then some of the links might be related. I can't think how to work in a Google Maps hack.
Posted by L. | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:42 PM
I knew someone would try to get me on "unrelated." Isn't your summer break over yet?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:43 PM
Orientation is the 27th.
Posted by L. | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:45 PM
Not long now! Try not to drink too much, ok?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:47 PM
She ran from Arlington... errr... Langley to wherever Current is stationed.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:48 PM
8 to 7 to 3.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:48 PM
Oh, not likely. Tulane makes all its students complete "AlcoholEdu for College."
Posted by L. | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:51 PM
Oh, that should take care of the problem then.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:53 PM
Well, that's what their website says, and who am I to question them?
Posted by L. | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:56 PM
I like your attitude.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:58 PM
Paunches? Does that Slate writer know what paunches are? These women do NOT have paunches.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 2:59 PM
Yeah, I thought that was dumb.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 3:00 PM
Back on topic: can someone explain to me how soap makes you fat? I know soap IS fat (thank you, Fight Club), but I think it's pretty petty to assert that association with "the brand [of soap] for fat girls" is going to harm them. Women are smarter than that. Better, men are going to think some of these women are just fine, thank you, and maybe they'll look into Dove. Caveat: if they use only fat chicks in the ads, then they really are trying to be "the brand for fat girls." Best as I can tell there are still a few members of the itty bitty titty committee on the ads thus far.
Posted by diddy | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 3:08 PM
diddy, given that particular brands of cigarettes can be associated with the young and hip, or the old and decrepit, or with various races, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that a soap could come to be associated with fat women. I mean, these bizarre associations are the heart of advertisting.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 3:26 PM
But ogged, you're not comparing like goods. Everyone buys soap. Not everyone buys cigarettes. You can atomize that market a lot more easily. Plus haven't they inoculated themselves against exactly that criticism by including such a diverse set of models?
Posted by diddy | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 3:55 PM
'twas but one example. Old guy cars, chick cars, lesbian cars. Kid soft drinks, adult soft drinks, programmer soft drinks. Really, we could go on all day. And though not all the Dove models are the same size, none are a traditional model size.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 3:59 PM
be wary of "traditional." I think we discussed the recent slimming-down of models in the last thread.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 4:10 PM
Anyway, while one point of advertising is to associate oneself with a group, another goal is to create an emotional reaction to the product. Certain women will want to associate themselves with ordinary women and appreciate Dove's efforts, and probably still more who think less about grouping will have a positive reaction to the ads, which may incline them to buy the Dove brand.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 4:13 PM
So I won't RTFA cause I think I can get it all from what's been said, but I gather that the problem is people buy from people they want to be like, not people that they are like. By that standard, nobody would by energizer batteries because everyone wants a normal life where their kids don't put eggs in the drier and don't jump on the couch. Or they wouldn't want to do Jenny Craig (or whatever it is Kirstie Alley is pimping nowadays).
The fact of the matter is that Dove isn't saying that fat people should use their stuff. They're saying that normal people should and do. Remember, firming cream isn't the only thing they are selling this way. I think they've got some deodorant TV spots as well. Whether being yourself will sell soap and deodorant (such glamourous products, I know) remains to be seen; methinks it will be a testement of whether women today still aspire to be Twiggy, or if they want to be themselves.
Come to think of it, beyond the see-you-later-alligator ads with Angie Harmon-Seahorn and the like (were they Dove commercials, or Vaseline commercials for men???), I don't think Dove always used supermodel-esque models. I think they used very fit models, but never any who were, as I recall, runway types.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 4:14 PM
And I see that Al Gore does not care about the Linux demographic.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 4:14 PM
No one cares about the Linux demographic.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 4:30 PM
L. re: 9 -- That's a riot. I had profs there who held their office hours at bars. Perhaps one of the lessons in the curriculum is "Teaching Assistants shouldn't offer their students 30 extra credit points on their final if they can finish a half a bottle of tequila in 2 hours." (Also known as "How Becks got an A in Spanish 203")
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 1-05 4:39 PM
I'm not sure what demographic Al Gore cares about. The current promo is for a show or spot on an Abercombie and Fitch male model about the burden or vicisitudes (help with spelling please) or something of masculine beauty.
Holy earth tones batman.
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 08- 2-05 8:26 PM