I felt bad that no one had commented on this. Another snot-nosed kid story: in 1985 when Air Jordans had just come out, a friend of mine was one of the first people at our school to get a pair. He wasn't a bad player (better than me), but he wasn't great. People refused to let him play pick-up as long as he wore the Air Jordans; they said he wasn't good enough to wear them.
I appreciate your pity. I was expecting riveting tales of pedagogy from our resident educators. I was wrong.
As for the Jordans, the only people I knew who bought them when they first came out weren't basketball players, just kids with a lot of money. I like the enforcement at your school.
When I was in high school, I was taught the Odyssey by a devout fundamentalist Christian. The poor man characterized Odysseus' struggle as returning to his loving wife after having been pining for her all this time, chastely and faithfully.
Of course then we read the part about Odysseus and Circe 'enjoying their love together' which ocassioned blushings and 'moving right alongs'.
That's the thing. In hindsight I see that they wouldn't have added an extra die to my RISK maneuvers. But, you know, to have heard that satisfying decompression hiss coming from my own feet just once.
categorizing your porn by racial group is a good start. also: get somebody pregnant, don't sit through the birth, then refuse to have sex with her anyway.
getting somebody pregnant implies fun. you could accept a job as a high-ranking government official in charge of disaster relief, with no intention of performing said job.
but are you truly aware of the harrowing journey that the cooties of the male saliva glands must travel -- past the tonsils, down the esophagus, 'round the yellow bile and black bile, deep into what is referred to as "the tummy" in order to take root in the fuzzy interior of the belly button? Do you, man of science?
Did she lobby for property-tax schemes because of her estimates of the probabilities of success, the unpopularity of the redistributive scheme, and the bad results of some electoral failure? If so, weren't you kind of being jerks?
We were being jerks, which I thought I'd conceded. She lobbied for them in her capacity as the principal of a school that was rolling in property-tax dough. We were picking on her for the tension between her personal views of what was just, and the demands of her job. It's a legitimate issue, but not a Machiavellian one.
What would be a Machiavellian one? Or, rather, an issue raising conflicts between Machiavelli's advice and less cynical advice? (Really, I'm asking whether or not there is some distinction between Machiavellian counsel and a realistic program of attempting to achieve your desired ends.)
I think we would have had to make a case that her means themselves were unsavory, manipulative, or dishonest, or, at least ruthless. I mean, I understand that this is pop Machiavelli, and I don't have the book here to make it more accurate, but in any case, we didn't have evidence that she'd done anything nasty.
Maybe I am, to borrow a phrase, a percolative thinker. Actually, I think something else reminded me of those comments today, and this time they made me think of this incident.
I'm asking whether or not there is some distinction between Machiavellian counsel and a realistic program of attempting to achieve your desired ends.
This seems too simple to be what you're looking for, but I'll give it a shot. In most situations there are many possible programs which are more likely to achieve your ends then to not achieve your ends. It's realistic to constrain your option set to only include those likely to achieve your ends, its Machiavellian to choose the means most likely to succeed irrespective of any moral problems with those means.
For example, lets say your desired end is to no longer have some hypothetical person (X) correct errors in your comments. You could achieve this by not commenting (but this might conflict with other ends), not writing anything which that person perceives to be an error, preventing X from seeing your comments, shutting down X's internet connection, cutting off X's fingers, plucking out his or her eyes, or just plain killing'em. Many of these are more likely than not to work, but they aren't all equally moral.
40/41: I just linked those comments to highlight Ogged's claim that he'd probably never had sex (since, like the 40-year-old virgin, he is often heard to say "I love titties").
I felt bad that no one had commented on this. Another snot-nosed kid story: in 1985 when Air Jordans had just come out, a friend of mine was one of the first people at our school to get a pair. He wasn't a bad player (better than me), but he wasn't great. People refused to let him play pick-up as long as he wore the Air Jordans; they said he wasn't good enough to wear them.
He went back to his old shoes.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 5:14 PM
I appreciate your pity. I was expecting riveting tales of pedagogy from our resident educators. I was wrong.
As for the Jordans, the only people I knew who bought them when they first came out weren't basketball players, just kids with a lot of money. I like the enforcement at your school.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 5:16 PM
At the time, so did I. But, then, back in the day, I was a kiddie Reaganite.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 5:24 PM
You've come a long way, baby.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 5:27 PM
I always wanted the Reebok Pumps.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 5:49 PM
When I was in high school, I was taught the Odyssey by a devout fundamentalist Christian. The poor man characterized Odysseus' struggle as returning to his loving wife after having been pining for her all this time, chastely and faithfully.
Of course then we read the part about Odysseus and Circe 'enjoying their love together' which ocassioned blushings and 'moving right alongs'.
Then we read about man-love in Plato.
Poor teach.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 6:02 PM
not to mention Calypso. Though Homer does say that, deep down, he didn't forget his family in Ithica. Screwing around is a-ok, so long as you don't.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 6:52 PM
so long as you don't forget your family in Ithica, I mean.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 7:04 PM
I had the Reebok pumps. They helped me to get to piano lessons a lot faster.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 7:23 PM
Schpiel?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 7:41 PM
That's the thing. In hindsight I see that they wouldn't have added an extra die to my RISK maneuvers. But, you know, to have heard that satisfying decompression hiss coming from my own feet just once.
Posted by Kriston | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 7:49 PM
Schpiel?
Oy vey. "Shpiel" didn't look right, so naturally I added a letter. I'll let it stand as a testament to my stupidity.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:01 PM
Maybe you should have cultivated blisters.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:09 PM
I always wanted the Reebok Pumps.
Reeboks?!! Did you want the matching bra-and-panty set, too?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:09 PM
Hate to admit that I'm with Timbot here: even at my sissy school, Reeboks were sissy shoes. I guess they define manhood differently in Texas.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:13 PM
I had them; they were lame; not I.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:13 PM
I mean the matching bra and panty set.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:14 PM
With your Nike Frees!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:15 PM
that's right! it's not just the nikes that run free.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:21 PM
Shit, I just realized that all these comments are off topic, and I'll have to delete them.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:21 PM
I am actually switching to pure road flats. The nike frees were excellent, but wore out. Now I am even freer.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:22 PM
if you would like to e-mail me, requesting that I no longer post, I will provide you with an address through which to achieve such.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:24 PM
I was kidding, martyr.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:25 PM
but I'm willing to die for your sins!
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:27 PM
Awesome. Must start hardcore sinning.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:28 PM
categorizing your porn by racial group is a good start. also: get somebody pregnant, don't sit through the birth, then refuse to have sex with her anyway.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:30 PM
I was hoping for sinning that was a bit more fun.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:32 PM
getting somebody pregnant implies fun. you could accept a job as a high-ranking government official in charge of disaster relief, with no intention of performing said job.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:38 PM
Maybe ogged doesn't know what's involved in pregnancy.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:43 PM
I know all about French kissing, wise-ass.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:44 PM
but are you truly aware of the harrowing journey that the cooties of the male saliva glands must travel -- past the tonsils, down the esophagus, 'round the yellow bile and black bile, deep into what is referred to as "the tummy" in order to take root in the fuzzy interior of the belly button? Do you, man of science?
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:51 PM
Is that the fun part?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:52 PM
no, no -- the fun is when you get to check whether it's a boy or girl by the taste and texture of the belly button lint.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:57 PM
You're one of those guys who wants to see the gory stuff in the delivery room, aren't you?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 8:58 PM
I imagine I'll take a gander.
am off, ladies, gents. Finished a crappy witness outline.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 9:00 PM
Did she lobby for property-tax schemes because of her estimates of the probabilities of success, the unpopularity of the redistributive scheme, and the bad results of some electoral failure? If so, weren't you kind of being jerks?
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 9:32 PM
We were being jerks, which I thought I'd conceded. She lobbied for them in her capacity as the principal of a school that was rolling in property-tax dough. We were picking on her for the tension between her personal views of what was just, and the demands of her job. It's a legitimate issue, but not a Machiavellian one.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 9:36 PM
What would be a Machiavellian one? Or, rather, an issue raising conflicts between Machiavelli's advice and less cynical advice? (Really, I'm asking whether or not there is some distinction between Machiavellian counsel and a realistic program of attempting to achieve your desired ends.)
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 9:49 PM
I think we would have had to make a case that her means themselves were unsavory, manipulative, or dishonest, or, at least ruthless. I mean, I understand that this is pop Machiavelli, and I don't have the book here to make it more accurate, but in any case, we didn't have evidence that she'd done anything nasty.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 10:14 PM
Is it just me, or is it kind of wierd that the original comments that reminded you to post this were from a month ago? Do you really think that slow?
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 10:35 PM
Maybe I am, to borrow a phrase, a percolative thinker. Actually, I think something else reminded me of those comments today, and this time they made me think of this incident.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 10:38 PM
I'm asking whether or not there is some distinction between Machiavellian counsel and a realistic program of attempting to achieve your desired ends.
This seems too simple to be what you're looking for, but I'll give it a shot. In most situations there are many possible programs which are more likely to achieve your ends then to not achieve your ends. It's realistic to constrain your option set to only include those likely to achieve your ends, its Machiavellian to choose the means most likely to succeed irrespective of any moral problems with those means.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 10:43 PM
That's a good phrase- where's it borrowed from?
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 10:45 PM
exbeforelast.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 10:47 PM
For example, lets say your desired end is to no longer have some hypothetical person (X) correct errors in your comments. You could achieve this by not commenting (but this might conflict with other ends), not writing anything which that person perceives to be an error, preventing X from seeing your comments, shutting down X's internet connection, cutting off X's fingers, plucking out his or her eyes, or just plain killing'em. Many of these are more likely than not to work, but they aren't all equally moral.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 10:51 PM
cutting off X's fingers, plucking out his or her eyes, or
An anticlimactic disjunction.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09- 6-05 11:12 PM
40/41: I just linked those comments to highlight Ogged's claim that he'd probably never had sex (since, like the 40-year-old virgin, he is often heard to say "I love titties").
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 09- 7-05 8:57 AM
Ah, right, that was it.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09- 7-05 8:59 AM