I thought it was the opposite of a dented can, rather, a swollen one. Convex vs. Concave. I thought that was a sign of botulism and always imagined unsavory things growing inside.
the dents are caused by ephemera: malevolent ephemera. The ephemera insert excessive yellow bile into the can. The can then contains a bile imbalance. The bile imbalance causes the ancestors of the can to anger, and in response, the ancestors release ogg into the can. Ogg tastes bad.
Joe O, those people are really persnickety though. Further down, they say that it's risky to eat left-overs from a restaurant.
"Q: My favourite restaurant is always happy to send the leftovers home in a doggy bag — can I eat it?
A: Food in a doggy bag has likely had a tough time. It's been sitting around on your plate cooling down, it's been contaminated by you while you were eating it, and then it's been carried home before finally being put in the fridge, so it is a risk. Experts advise that if you are going to risk it, make sure it spends no more than four hours between the time it first landed on your plate and when you get it home into the fridge, which could be tricky — and it should always be reheated really well."
I understand why we worry about botulism in relation to canned goods, but why, it seems to me, only botulism? I'm sure there are other microbial buggaboos out there. Do they not like soup?
Botulism also isn't an infection, but a condition caused by a poison (bacteria poop, basically), and it's harder to treat (since antibiotics won't work.) since the toxin just paralyzes muscles.
Here's a story that is only a little bit relevant, but I want to tell it anyway.
So my family follows the classic Jewish immigrant pattern:
1) The generation that immigrates makes money doing something legal, but not particularly high prestige (e.g. buying apartment buildings in a ghetto).
2) Their children then make money doing something professional (e.g. medicine or the law).
3) Their children forego money-making in order to do something altruistic or intellectually or artistically ambitious (e.g. legal aid attorney or writing).
4) Their children start out pursuing the third path and then veer off into the second. (That's me, a failed academic now in law school).
So, anyway, here's the relevant part. My grandmother's youngest uncle made his money rescuing sunken cans from the botton of the city harbor and reselling them without the labels during the depression.
I'm still getting used to this new meaning for the initialism "ATM". My mind still tends to read in a different meaning, and I don't mean the one having to do with cash dispensers.
I got it at 30, but was terribly puzzled up to that point.
(I'm reminded of a 9th grade English class, where a somewhat flaky teacher was attempting to convince the class that some incident in (I think) Great Expectations had a sexual double meaning. No one in the class could figure it out, and the teacher refused to explain explicitly, leaving the matter at "Cheese! Come on, it's cheese! God, you guys are so naive.")
If you'll pardon the non sequitur, you all might be amused to read the Free Republic folks coming to the conclusion (and stating it!) that Bush is an idiot after all.
I propose we use A2M for the porn meaning, so that we can continue using ATM with light hearts.
I propose that "ATM" carry as many meanings as possible, so pretty soon Unfogged threads will consist of nothing but repeated instances of "ATM" separated occasionally by pronouns, proper nouns, prepositions, and conjunctions. It'll be kind of like the use of the word "smurf." Only different.
Botulism is an anaerobic microrganism. It will not grow in an oxygen rich environment. A dented can letting air in will not lead to botulism. Botulism is introduced to cans before they are sealed, then produces a swelling of a sealed can as it grows. It produces a very dangerous toxin.
A dented can is fine, unless it is breached, in which case the air entering the can will of course spoil the food it contains, as hundreds of aerobic microrganisms begin to grow. You sould not eat spoiled food.
It's actually C. botulinum; it's in the same genus as the tetanus microbe, which produces a toxin that has a structure very similar to botulinum toxin's.
Re 83: Botulism is the disease caused by the toxin released by C. botulinum, which is called botulinum toxin (the active ingredient in Botox)-- in other words, it's botulinum toxin poisoning.
Because you'll die.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:30 AM
That might be tomorrow's addendum; I can't flip ahead on someone else's calendar.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:31 AM
I thought it was the opposite of a dented can, rather, a swollen one. Convex vs. Concave. I thought that was a sign of botulism and always imagined unsavory things growing inside.
Posted by Saheli | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:35 AM
Potential for botulism.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:35 AM
the dents are caused by ephemera: malevolent ephemera. The ephemera insert excessive yellow bile into the can. The can then contains a bile imbalance. The bile imbalance causes the ancestors of the can to anger, and in response, the ancestors release ogg into the can. Ogg tastes bad.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:35 AM
The dent can cause an air leak that starts the botulism growing. A swollen can means that it's had more time to develop.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:36 AM
botulism is just another word for the ogg of angry ancestors.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:37 AM
A: You have to use a bit of common sense with dents — small dints in otherwise new and undamaged cans may be fine. However, cans that are damaged enough to let air in are extremely dangerous, and even a small dent could be enough to damage the seams where the can is sealed. Since you can't tell for sure, it's safer not to eat from a dented can.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:39 AM
Joe O, those people are really persnickety though. Further down, they say that it's risky to eat left-overs from a restaurant.
"Q: My favourite restaurant is always happy to send the leftovers home in a doggy bag — can I eat it?
A: Food in a doggy bag has likely had a tough time. It's been sitting around on your plate cooling down, it's been contaminated by you while you were eating it, and then it's been carried home before finally being put in the fridge, so it is a risk. Experts advise that if you are going to risk it, make sure it spends no more than four hours between the time it first landed on your plate and when you get it home into the fridge, which could be tricky — and it should always be reheated really well."
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:45 AM
I understand why we worry about botulism in relation to canned goods, but why, it seems to me, only botulism? I'm sure there are other microbial buggaboos out there. Do they not like soup?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:50 AM
How did ogged not know this?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:51 AM
SB, my understanding is that botulin doesn't give you much warning in the way of off odors or colors.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:51 AM
How did ogged not know this?
Probably because I grew up eating almost no canned food. Cultural differences, Ben; try to be sensitive.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:54 AM
Beware of swollen cans.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:56 AM
I thought maybe because your mother had it in for you.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:03 AM
Botulism also isn't an infection, but a condition caused by a poison (bacteria poop, basically), and it's harder to treat (since antibiotics won't work.) since the toxin just paralyzes muscles.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:04 AM
and bacteria are our ancestors. Hence . . .
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:07 AM
Of course. It is the ogg of our ancestor, C. botulinum.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:09 AM
Here's a story that is only a little bit relevant, but I want to tell it anyway.
So my family follows the classic Jewish immigrant pattern:
1) The generation that immigrates makes money doing something legal, but not particularly high prestige (e.g. buying apartment buildings in a ghetto).
2) Their children then make money doing something professional (e.g. medicine or the law).
3) Their children forego money-making in order to do something altruistic or intellectually or artistically ambitious (e.g. legal aid attorney or writing).
4) Their children start out pursuing the third path and then veer off into the second. (That's me, a failed academic now in law school).
So, anyway, here's the relevant part. My grandmother's youngest uncle made his money rescuing sunken cans from the botton of the city harbor and reselling them without the labels during the depression.
Posted by pjs | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:18 AM
"What's for dinner?"
"Harbor Surprise!"
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:24 AM
Why were so many cans at the bottom of the harbor?
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:42 AM
Botulism's obtained from certain mid-areas of bulging cans.
Bogomilism obtains in certain medieval Bulgarian kings.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:42 AM
Coincidence?!
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:43 AM
I second Saiselgy's question in 21.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:48 AM
Bulging cans are few and far between ATM.
Posted by Tarrou | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 11:51 AM
I'm still getting used to this new meaning for the initialism "ATM". My mind still tends to read in a different meaning, and I don't mean the one having to do with cash dispensers.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 12:21 PM
I don't mean the one having to do with cash dispensers
Yes, but everybody in the industry knows that ATM pays better. ATM.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 12:30 PM
21, 24, I would guess that's where the trash went.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 12:37 PM
Yes, but everybody in the industry knows that ATM pays better. ATM.
Yes, but ATM puts you at risk of some seriously malevolent ephemera, especially if you perform ATM ATM.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 12:39 PM
What's a little hepatitis between friends?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 12:41 PM
Nothing that an Altoid won't rectify.
Posted by Tarrou | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 12:45 PM
Rectify? I nearly killed him.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 12:53 PM
That's exactly what I was warning you about.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 12:53 PM
rectifying altoids is usually performed before ATM ATM, not after.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:07 PM
That gives "curiously strong" a whole new meaning.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:10 PM
I mean, I've never tried "rectifying" them.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:14 PM
and I don't mean the one having to do with cash dispensers.
Does somebody want to give me a clue? I'm missing all the jokes.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:25 PM
Here ya go, Tim.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:27 PM
Anal to mouth.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:27 PM
It took me a while, too.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:27 PM
It should, if you're doing it right.
Posted by Tarrou | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:30 PM
It took me a while, too.
Yeah, you have to be pretty hard up for the money.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:30 PM
36: it's especially inadvisable with the new "sour" altoids.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:30 PM
I think rectified altoids are called asteroids.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:32 PM
Wow, it sure didn't take long for this thread to degenerate into degeneracy.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:33 PM
Nowhere is the slippery slope into degeneracy steeper than it is ATM.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:34 PM
Zounds. Thanks, I think. It's like "tossing salad" +1. Ugh.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:36 PM
I got it at 30, but was terribly puzzled up to that point.
(I'm reminded of a 9th grade English class, where a somewhat flaky teacher was attempting to convince the class that some incident in (I think) Great Expectations had a sexual double meaning. No one in the class could figure it out, and the teacher refused to explain explicitly, leaving the matter at "Cheese! Come on, it's cheese! God, you guys are so naive.")
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:39 PM
Oh, wow. I thought it was just garden-variety analingus, but then I clicked the link. What an educational site you have here, ogged.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:42 PM
garden-variety analingus
There's a construction you don't see used very often.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:45 PM
You would prefer "good old fashioned rimming"?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:47 PM
Let's bear in mind the use-mention distinction.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:48 PM
that's when you use fresh greens instead of iceberg, and lose the croutons.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:48 PM
You would prefer "good old fashioned rimming"?
Who wouldn't? You're missing an indefinite article between prefer and good, by the way.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:50 PM
This is the most outstanding unfogged thread in the anals of unfogged history.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:51 PM
This is the most outstanding unfogged thread in the anals of unfogged history.
Indeed, with a moustache no less.
Seriously, this is a slow day here at the Mineshaft or perhaps it's just a busy one for ogged.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:53 PM
He's still chopping.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:54 PM
I'm just sad that the innocence of ATM has been corrupted.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:57 PM
By the way, is 53 re 47, 50, or 52?
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 1:59 PM
There are many paths to the waterfall.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:01 PM
The degenerate meaning was here first.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:02 PM
I propose we use A2M for the porn meaning, so that we can continue using ATM with light hearts.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:04 PM
If you'll pardon the non sequitur, you all might be amused to read the Free Republic folks coming to the conclusion (and stating it!) that Bush is an idiot after all.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:05 PM
Why is everyone all het up about "at the moment"?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:06 PM
We might be able to salvage ATM, but I think the Altoid's chalky whiteness has been forever sullied.
Posted by Tarrou | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:06 PM
Why is everyone all het up about "at the moment"?
Ask your aching, tumescent mastodon.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:07 PM
This is just an awful thread. Just awful.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:08 PM
I propose we use A2M for the porn meaning, so that we can continue using ATM with light hearts.
I propose that "ATM" carry as many meanings as possible, so pretty soon Unfogged threads will consist of nothing but repeated instances of "ATM" separated occasionally by pronouns, proper nouns, prepositions, and conjunctions. It'll be kind of like the use of the word "smurf." Only different.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:29 PM
That's the smurfest idea I've ever heard.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:33 PM
ATM!
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:41 PM
it's also a network protocol. if, uh, that helps.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 2:56 PM
According to acronymfinder.com, "ATM" can stand for "Abstinence 'Till Marriage." ATM's innocence is saved!
Posted by oceanic | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 3:19 PM
but the fact that ATM is so many things to so many people indicates promiscuity.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 3:26 PM
I'm a bit worried by ogged's relative silence in this thread. Is it possible he caught botulism from a bit of bad meat in the can ATM*.
*at the mineshaft
Posted by peter snees | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 4:02 PM
masterful.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 4:06 PM
we blush while ogged frets
Posted by peter snees | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 4:18 PM
In 1984, when the ATM cell size was being decided in CCITT, they were thinking about 64 kbps voice. At that speed, 32-byte cells need 4 ms. If larger cells were used, the time to collect the voice would become too large and would require echo cancellation. The Europeans, therefore, wanted 32-byte cells, while US position was that the cells be at least 64 bytes long. The limit of 48 bytes was chosen as an average of 32 and 64.
Leaving both sides unsatisfied.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 4:45 PM
mark me deeply unsatisfied, and not a little bored, joe.
Posted by peter snees | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 4:47 PM
Not to mention, it's only civilized to put it in a bowl or on a plate first, especially if the can's dented.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 5:51 PM
mark me deeply unsatisfied, and not a little bored, joe.
Seems there's a lot of that going around.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 7:43 PM
Botulism is an anaerobic microrganism. It will not grow in an oxygen rich environment. A dented can letting air in will not lead to botulism. Botulism is introduced to cans before they are sealed, then produces a swelling of a sealed can as it grows. It produces a very dangerous toxin.
A dented can is fine, unless it is breached, in which case the air entering the can will of course spoil the food it contains, as hundreds of aerobic microrganisms begin to grow. You sould not eat spoiled food.
Posted by GGordonL | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 9:55 PM
Technically, I think the anaerobic microorganism is B. Botulinus, and botulism is the toxin it produces?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:01 PM
Botulism is the toxin it produces. But Weiner, oughtn't you to have written "B. botulinus"?
Also: don't feed honey to babies, you might kill them.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:07 PM
But why not B. botulinus? Does Botulism run Botulinux?
Yeah yeah. Good night.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 10-12-05 10:09 PM
In other ingestion-related health hazard news, no matter how much you want a buzz, don't lick camel toads.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-14-05 10:03 AM
That is so awesome.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 10-14-05 10:06 AM
I concur. That made my day, apo.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-14-05 2:46 PM
It's actually C. botulinum; it's in the same genus as the tetanus microbe, which produces a toxin that has a structure very similar to botulinum toxin's.
Posted by Andy | Link to this comment | 10-15-05 2:20 AM
Re 83: Botulism is the disease caused by the toxin released by C. botulinum, which is called botulinum toxin (the active ingredient in Botox)-- in other words, it's botulinum toxin poisoning.
Posted by Andy | Link to this comment | 10-15-05 2:24 AM
Thanks. A limerick from the book Murder Ink which rhymed "B. botulinus" with "looks like accident. How's that for slyness?" is based on a lie.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-15-05 8:38 AM
@ tweedledopey:
sorry, I run botilinux!
Posted by pOg | Link to this comment | 10-16-05 2:37 AM