In any case, you do have to wonder … why anyone ever runs for a second term as president.
Because if they didn't, they'd suffer lame-duckhood in their first and only term? I could see, as a way to avoid that fate, keeping everyone guessing your intentions until the last minute. But if you string your party along and then bail at the last minute, you and your party are or will be screwed. (The latter by the former, and vice versa.)
I would suggest abolishing term limits, if I weren't so dependent on certain presidents having unsuccessful second terms.
These particular women are only mean to other people. They're pretty damn deferential to Bush himself, with the possible exception of Barbara (although I did hear once that she inexplicably preferred George out of her children).
Oh wait, I'm supposed to be speculating. Infantilism.
Laura has a public persona that never drops. She's the very archetype of the Republican political wife, a role played particularly badly by Hillary Clinton and Teresa Heinz-Kerry (despite the latter actually having been one and the former being married to the closest thing to a Republican the Democrats would elect). I don't think anybody knows what Laura's like from watching her on television.
I think JM is right--Bush won't feel as threatened by these women (even a powerful one like Rice, who to really speculate is doubly unthreatening because she's black and that's another social downmarker) as by powerful men like Dad and Rove. And I think there's a societally accepted pattern for male-female relationships to involve the woman sucking up to the man. And as we know, the chairman of this board is a compliment collector.
My guess: power relationships emerge in a different way between men. In an arena like governing, knowledge, intelligence and basic competence probably make it very clear very quickly who the alpha male ought to be. The WH staff must be pretty sick of tiptoeing around the fact that the least qualified guy in the room is the one running the show.
But thanks to the magic of the patriarchy, these confusing dissonances in power don't apply when dealing with women. Bush can get the expert advice he needs from these smart ladies, but without feeling shown up -- after all, they're just girls.
It's not exactly a charitable theory, but that's the one I'm going with.
To Bush, the world divides into people for drinking with, and people for ogling. He no longer drinks, so he no longer has any use for anyone he can't plausibly ogle.
I worried, young Ben, that someone would make that joke, but I thought, what with your recent injury, and grad school workload, that I was safe. Welcome back. Also.
I think Tom in 13 is right. I think Bush is super stressed out and finds it less stressful to interact with women. I also think that some women are better with interacting with powerful assholes than men are.
His dad is pissed at him for invading Iraq and undoing bush sr.'s major presidential success.
So Ogged has something in common with Bush, in that his most intimate relationships tend to be with women on the verge of lesbianism. (There's a direct quote to be had here, but I'm not much of a "search engine" user.)
I think Bush is super stressed out and finds it less stressful to interact with women. I also think that some women are better with interacting with powerful assholes than men are.
Or maybe assholes find women more accommodating than men? I'm trying to assing maximum asshole behavior to the President. A douchebag and a mysogynist!
Also, we're keeping to a pretty rigid preconception of what counts as a derived form of "Kotsko". We're completely neglecting words like "Vroom". For instance.
Would Kotskoesque be reminiscent of my style, or of my person? I like it best because of the Kafka connection -- in about fifty years, people will come up with ways of decoding my writings that will make them seem enigmatically prophetic.
I love how, at least on my computer, the comments open to the last comment in the thread, and in response to a post about Bush only interacts on a daily basis with four women, I see #86.
Ugh, I believe I once wrote a greasemonkey script to prevent that behavior.
The "good reason" is that people were used to it, and feared change—even though the change would result in an objective improvement. I think the Democrats have a lesson to learn, here.
The good reason is that typical commenter behavior here is read/refresh/read/refresh, and this way, you don't have to scroll through 40, then 60, then 80 comments each time you refresh.
* If more than a screenfull of new comments has accumulated, you have to scroll up an unknown amount to start reading again.
Hypothetical different behavior wrongly called bad:
* If you don't make the page skip around with a script, refresh keeps the page where you last finished reading. The number of comments you would have to scroll through is purely a function of how many new comments accumulate, not of how many comments there are in total.
We conclude: a non-bottom-seeking would result in less scrolling, and less losing your place on the page.
To add an assumption missing in 95: scrolling down starting from a place certain is better than scrolling up the same amount to a place uncertain. (Uncertain, unless you take special care to remember the number of the comment you were reading.)
Yes, it would be helpful. I use it quite often to click on the place where I was (a place certain!) and then scroll up, in cases where the last "recent comment" I clicked on still shows.
I agree, more or less, but if the goal is not to miss any comments, no sidebar, however long, will do the trick. Maybe we can have all the comments emailed to us like ogged does.
What I'd actually like to is how long it's been since the most recent comment on the eight or so threads which been commented on most recently. This way one can figure out how many threads one needs to check up on, rather than trying to remember how many comments there were on a particular thread (which is no longer in most recent comments) last time one looked.
To add an assumption missing in 95: scrolling down starting from a place certain is better than scrolling up the same amount to a place uncertain. (Uncertain, unless you take special care to remember the number of the comment you were reading.)
That last option is feasible, if people don't mind cookies (and one can make the assumption that a user reads all currently available comments). Ogged, if I spent some time tonight writing the Javascript for this, would you use it? If so, can you email me your MT comment template?
109: wouldn't that involve a rather heavy-duty cookie? You'd have to have a (thread-id, last-viewed-comment) pair for each thread. Either that, or some new db tomfoolery (NPI) on the server. No?
Of course, you could write a greasemonkey script using local storage to accomplish much the same thing. I believe there's one for Metafilter, in fact, though I might be confusing it with the full-fledged FF extension Metafilthy.
I think you understand me correctly -- I'm suggesting changing it to "go to what was the final comment in this thread the last time I visited it" instead. This behavior could also be made toggle-able via a checkbox/radiobox on the homepage or top of the comment thread -- folks could have the option to always go to top, bottom, or last read. Presumably this would be a global setting for each user rather than a thread-specific one.
But I fear change, too. So if this doesn't sound up your alley, hey, that's more time for me to spend doing things that are completely unproductive, rather than just mostly.
114/117: probably a lot of light-duty cookies instead, in order to take advantage of the expiration feature to clear them out. But since this is all client-side stuff, there wouldn't be any noticeable impact on performance. Handling a few hundred unfogged cookies at a time is a pretty insignificant task for a browser.
You could do it in GM, but GM is really just there for when the normal JS DOM doesn't have enough power to accomplish what you want to do. In this case it does.
Intead of (or in addition to) "last read", could there be a "keep current page position"? If I understand correctly, that's what a browser would do in the absence of any script jiggery-pokery.
I have a fully worked-out position on the ideal handling of comments-refreshing, but every time I try to type it out I get suicidally depressed over the fact that I have a fully worked-out position on the ideal handling of comments-refreshing.
This is, I believe, overstated. I can't find, at the moment, the extensive discussion with somecallmetim about the difference between "whore" and "friendly."
"High-maintenance," however, means the same thing it always has.
128: I'm not sure I understand what you're proposing. That, on a refresh of the comment window, it stays scrolled the same distance from the top as you're currently viewing? Hmm. Well, the "go to the top" option will definitely provide that.
But to make it work with "scroll to the bottom" or "scroll to last read" you'd have to tell the difference between getting to the page from a click and from a refresh. I'm not sure how to do that without setting a cookie on the main page, then killing it as soon as you got to the comments page. Which would be ugly. Becks? Ben?
Arguably, this stuff with deriving an adjective form of my name has caused some good today, beyond the intrinsic enjoyment of the task itself (due to Ugh's comment, etc.).
141 - I'm still having trouble getting past "script jiggery-pokery", which is awesome. I'm not quite sure what SB wants -- it sounds like a request that if you're reading comment 30 of a 50 comment thread and refresh, it would stay on comment 30 while adding the new comments to the bottom. Is this correct? Why would someone refresh if they hadn't finished reading all of the comments in the window, though?
129: I'm glad you said that. It validates my decision to leave my current job in the tech sector. Believe me, by comparison all this Javascript stuff is fascinating.
SB: Confusingly enough, yeah. As I'm envisioning it, "go to the top" will equal "no Javascript, thank you". When the window first pops up you'll find yourself at the top of its contents. If you refresh it, you'll stay where you are. Does that sound right, or do you want to be able to go to the bottom/last read when the window opens, then refresh and stay where you are?
The idea is that you've read comment 50 of a 50-comment-thread and you hit refresh thus revealing that it is now a 60-comment-thread. But your browser stays pointed at comment 50, so you can start there and read down to comment 60, at which point you hit refresh again, and . . .
Is that right, SB?
By the way, my browser does this already, without any script-fu. And I like it that way.
Becks, tom: I want my current absolute vertical position, relative to the top of the page, to remain unchanged. The "no Javascript, thank you" is what I'm looking for.
Why would someone refresh if they hadn't finished reading all of the comments in the window, though?
Ah, they wouldn't. They would read all the comments, up to comment N of N, and then refresh. Upon refreshing, there will be N+M comments, but they would like to start reading N+1 with only a little bit of down-scrolling.
The same mechanism would cause a refresh at 30 of 50 to land you at 30 of (say) 80, true, but nobody has to use it that way.
Ah, they wouldn't. They would read all the comments, up to comment N of N, and then refresh. Upon refreshing, there will be N+M comments, but they would like to start reading N+1 with only a little bit of down-scrolling.
I think it would be easier to just hand out ponies to everyone.
I just didn't see how that was different than Tom's "last read" option.
From his description it sounded like "last read" required cookies to help the browser to know which comment I was reading, which is more complicated than requiring it to know where on the page I was reading.
151: the difference occurs if the user opens a 50 comment thread, scrolls to 40 and then refreshes. "No Javascript" keeps them at 40; "last read" would put them at 50.
Doing a tiny bit of research, though, it looks like the onscroll events work better than I thought. So, here's a new possible formulation -- two yes/no options:
1) Remember scrolled position?
2) If no memory of position, scroll to bottom?
Make sense? As soon as we have buy-in from our stakeholders I'll draw up some use cases and a GANTT chart. But what are our metrics?!
"Remember scrolled position" is misleading if you're talking about opening a new window. "Remember last position" is better, even if it doesn't match up so neatly with the event names.
I think you'll find my HID consultancy fees quite reasonable.
164: opening a new window that has been opened and then closed? or opening a new window that hasn't yet been viewed?
I'm suggesting that the same scrolled-memory mechanism be used both for refreshes and for the first of the preceding cases. For unviewed windows there'll be no memory (cookie), and the top or bottom scrolling behavior will kick in.
I mean, at one point I open thread 4273, then close the browser, then later reopen it—I'm not likely to be thinking about returning to the same place as returning to the scrolled position, as it's a new window.
Everyone wish me a moderate speaking pace and varied, natural-sounding intonation—I'm to give a presentation in class soon.
I'm not likely to be thinking about returning to the same place as returning to the scrolled position, as it's a new window
I don't understand what you mean. Each thread will keep track of its scrolled position on an individual basis. But I suspect you understand this.
Tell you what: I'll try to whip something up tonight that defaults to the current behavior, but adds new options. Ogged can ignore it or use it. If the latter, you all will then be responsible for telling me how much you hate it. It's a plan, at least.
In any case, you do have to wonder... why anyone ever runs for a second term as president.
Let's hear it for Coolidge! He totally dodged the blame for the Great Depression that way. I hear he spent the rest of Hoover's term rolling around naked on a giant pile of money while his servants burned the homeless to keep him warm.
So here's what you should do for the "Recent Comments" sidebar: something like Brian Weatherson, which lists the most recently commented threads, with who commented on it when. That way when one thread takes off we'll still be able to see if there are any strange comments on the other threads.
Admittedly it'll make it harder if you want to, say, catch all the Bridgeplatica, because if SB comments and then some lesser commenter comments immediately after SB won't show up in the sidebar. But if that's the way you feel about it you should probably be applying for Kotsko's "read all the comments" fellowship anyway.
if SB comments and then some lesser commenter comments
I'm so appreciated! (Thanks, Matt! Crisis on!) But please not at anyone else's expense. I'd rather not be in the same sentence as a referece to "lesser commenters".
Although I have found that if you use the comments feed on bloglines you can get an idea of which threads have been active recently. The main problem with that is the delay (you can catch up in the evening, if you want to, but it's not so good when new comments are continuing to appear).
I hate you all. Any weathersonian active comments thread would have to list the active time to the minute. You know how ugly that would be? Too ugly to ever be seen, that's how ugly.
I'll install the notifier plugin, but since it requires modifications to the comments templates, it'll have to wait until I get the templates back from Tom, which, inshallah, won't be for years.
They're going to throw you out of grad school, you know. There's no sense in me mucking with the template when I'm going to get changes from Tom. Yes, I could merge the changes, but that's a massive pain in my patootie.
It sounds like it's time to adjourn to the bunker. The commies are closing in on Berlin. Oops, wrong dweller in Cloud Cuckoo Land. Sorry Mr. Godwin.
Posted by hank | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 10:53 AM
He lost a sister at a young age, didn't he? Does that have something to do with it?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:00 AM
I don't know. Speculate!
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:02 AM
There has got to be a joke in there somewhere about how Bush only allows women in the Oval Office now. Somebody?
Posted by neil | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:03 AM
Maybe she was mean and bullied him, and he misses it.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:06 AM
Maybe!
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:07 AM
In any case, you do have to wonder … why anyone ever runs for a second term as president.
Because if they didn't, they'd suffer lame-duckhood in their first and only term? I could see, as a way to avoid that fate, keeping everyone guessing your intentions until the last minute. But if you string your party along and then bail at the last minute, you and your party are or will be screwed. (The latter by the former, and vice versa.)
I would suggest abolishing term limits, if I weren't so dependent on certain presidents having unsuccessful second terms.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:08 AM
Laura doesn't strike me as particularly mean or dykey. Momma, on the other hand, doesn't strike me as dykey.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:09 AM
These particular women are only mean to other people. They're pretty damn deferential to Bush himself, with the possible exception of Barbara (although I did hear once that she inexplicably preferred George out of her children).
Oh wait, I'm supposed to be speculating. Infantilism.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:11 AM
Thus "varyingly." Gotta keep things snappy.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:11 AM
Laura doesn't strike me as particularly mean
Laura has a public persona that never drops. She's the very archetype of the Republican political wife, a role played particularly badly by Hillary Clinton and Teresa Heinz-Kerry (despite the latter actually having been one and the former being married to the closest thing to a Republican the Democrats would elect). I don't think anybody knows what Laura's like from watching her on television.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:17 AM
I think JM is right--Bush won't feel as threatened by these women (even a powerful one like Rice, who to really speculate is doubly unthreatening because she's black and that's another social downmarker) as by powerful men like Dad and Rove. And I think there's a societally accepted pattern for male-female relationships to involve the woman sucking up to the man. And as we know, the chairman of this board is a compliment collector.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:18 AM
My guess: power relationships emerge in a different way between men. In an arena like governing, knowledge, intelligence and basic competence probably make it very clear very quickly who the alpha male ought to be. The WH staff must be pretty sick of tiptoeing around the fact that the least qualified guy in the room is the one running the show.
But thanks to the magic of the patriarchy, these confusing dissonances in power don't apply when dealing with women. Bush can get the expert advice he needs from these smart ladies, but without feeling shown up -- after all, they're just girls.
It's not exactly a charitable theory, but that's the one I'm going with.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:19 AM
Looks like MW and JM beat me to it. Gotta remember to preview.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:20 AM
Suckups: e.g. It's intriguing that she's not on the list. Did everyone see this? It's like he's been reading Joe D and me.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:21 AM
To Bush, the world divides into people for drinking with, and people for ogling. He no longer drinks, so he no longer has any use for anyone he can't plausibly ogle.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:22 AM
So he doesn't have daily contact with, oh, for instance, his Chief of Staff?
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:23 AM
I take it that, though this is published by Insight Magazine = Moonie Times, they're supposed to be knowledgeable about what goes on in GOP circles?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:23 AM
Hi chief of staff better not lose the staff! Republicans would flop down and die.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:24 AM
Is that joke old yet?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:24 AM
he no longer has any use for anyone he can't plausibly ogle
It would take a radically different definition of "plausibly" than the one I use to fit his mother into that category.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:25 AM
He no longer drinks
...so far as we know.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:26 AM
And ain't a one of them mean or dykey enough to be interesting on those merits. It's just more Bush mediocrity.
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:28 AM
I actually have no idea if any of teh reporting is true. In fact, I suspect it's partly meant to distance him from Rove, but whatever.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:28 AM
I dunno, Mr. B. Karen Hughes is hella dykey.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:29 AM
17: I suppose Andy Card isn't bad looking for a man his age, but ogle-worthy?
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:29 AM
It is, however, teh reporting.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:30 AM
It would take a radically different definition of "plausibly" than the one I use to fit his mother into that category.
Rhymes with "schmedipal".
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:30 AM
Edible?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:31 AM
I suppose Andy Card isn't bad looking for a man his age, but ogle-worthy?
Well, he is fairly butch.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:32 AM
23/25: And Dick Nixon said that the Queen Mum is "someone who knows how to hate." That is true excellence in meanness.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:32 AM
Re 28:
Ewww.
Re 29:
EWWWWWW!
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:33 AM
Is that joke old yet?
For the record? No. Still kills.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:36 AM
I'm still waiting for this to happen.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:38 AM
I say, from observation and experience, that starting a comment with "Well," reduces its shazam by 10%. Don't believe me? Regard:
1. Well, neuticles are teh prosthetic. (Perhaps.)
2. Neuticles are teh prosthetic. (Indeed!)
I know it's tempting. But let us avoid the well-comma, and keep our comments humming at peak shazam.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:45 AM
Well,okay.Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:47 AM
100% shazam.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:48 AM
Neuticles are teh prosthetic
Shouldn't that go here?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:48 AM
Oh, yeah. I hadn't seen that yet.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:53 AM
In order to increase the overall shazam of the joint, I hereby renounce my membership in the Well-Basically Club.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:54 AM
Or here, nine months ago.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:55 AM
It was new to me!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:00 PM
Farber blogged when the guy was just thinking about it.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:02 PM
You probably spend less time typing "testicles" into Google News than I do. In fact, everybody probably spends less time doing that than I do.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:03 PM
You should set a Google Alert.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:05 PM
At times, MAE displays of flashes of apostrophical link-finding.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:05 PM
Farber blogged when the guy was just thinking about it.
That maybe so, but—what did he blog at that moment in time?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:05 PM
I worried, young Ben, that someone would make that joke, but I thought, what with your recent injury, and grad school workload, that I was safe. Welcome back. Also.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:09 PM
Thanks, ogged.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:14 PM
I think Tom in 13 is right. I think Bush is super stressed out and finds it less stressful to interact with women. I also think that some women are better with interacting with powerful assholes than men are.
His dad is pissed at him for invading Iraq and undoing bush sr.'s major presidential success.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:20 PM
From 50 I also think that some women are better with interacting with powerful assholes than men are.
Really. Do tell.
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:27 PM
Really. Do tell.
I think it has something to do with Kegel exercises, but the exact relationship remains a bit opaque.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:29 PM
So Ogged has something in common with Bush, in that his most intimate relationships tend to be with women on the verge of lesbianism. (There's a direct quote to be had here, but I'm not much of a "search engine" user.)
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:31 PM
Adam, do you have a preferred adjective form of your surname?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:40 PM
Kotskyist?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:43 PM
Kotsko presents the same problems and opportunities as Holbo.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:45 PM
I think Bush is super stressed out and finds it less stressful to interact with women. I also think that some women are better with interacting with powerful assholes than men are.
Or maybe assholes find women more accommodating than men? I'm trying to assing maximum asshole behavior to the President. A douchebag and a mysogynist!
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:45 PM
There's Kotskonic and Kotskovian (c.f. Holbo).
Also Kotskonian, Kotskoean, Kotskoesque.
Possibly Kostkoid.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:46 PM
Holbonic? Holbovian?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:47 PM
"Kotskoid", obvs.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:47 PM
"I'm trying to assing"
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:47 PM
Holbonic? Holbovian?
There was a big debate a while back.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:50 PM
Shazam!
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:50 PM
"Kotskophrenic"? No? Okay.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:50 PM
me too, but the women in my life have such hang-ups.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:51 PM
Darn it, slol, you're too quick for me.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:51 PM
crap. 65-61.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:51 PM
I'd like an example of a Zen Kotskoan.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:52 PM
Kostkulist.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:52 PM
Damn, that should be Kotskulist.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:53 PM
Kotskolicious.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:54 PM
Kotskorious. Kotskoferous.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:56 PM
Enough of all this Kotskullery.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:58 PM
Whoa, some of these mean full of Kotsko, others in the manner of a Kotsko disciple, and so on. I'm looking for characteristic of Kotsko.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 12:59 PM
I'd like to think that someday, a dyslexic looking for information on CostCo will read this thread.
Posted by neil | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:01 PM
That leading "Whoa" really robs your comment of some zip.
(Bridgeplatonic)
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:02 PM
Also, we're keeping to a pretty rigid preconception of what counts as a derived form of "Kotsko". We're completely neglecting words like "Vroom". For instance.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:03 PM
I'm pretty sure that it ought to be Kotskoesque.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:03 PM
Bridgeplatitude.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:03 PM
A useful distinction (scroll down):
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:07 PM
Cotsqwesk.
And is it still OK to pick on wolfson for spelling mistakes?
Posted by pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:08 PM
Bridgeplatellic.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:10 PM
Kotskophoric: bearing characteristics of Kotsko.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:12 PM
Bridgeplateful.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:12 PM
Teh Kotskah!
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:18 PM
I'm flattered.
Would Kotskoesque be reminiscent of my style, or of my person? I like it best because of the Kafka connection -- in about fifty years, people will come up with ways of decoding my writings that will make them seem enigmatically prophetic.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:37 PM
I love how, at least on my computer, the comments open to the last comment in the thread, and in response to a post about Bush only interacts on a daily basis with four women, I see #86.
Posted by Ugh | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 1:59 PM
Ugh, No, that's what it does on every computer in the entire world. Supposedly there's a good reason for it, but I remain unconvinced.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:08 PM
Ugh, I believe I once wrote a greasemonkey script to prevent that behavior.
The "good reason" is that people were used to it, and feared change—even though the change would result in an objective improvement. I think the Democrats have a lesson to learn, here.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:17 PM
Huh. Every other blog I visit the comments open with the first comment, at which point I feel cheated.
Posted by Ugh | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:17 PM
I prefer it this way.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:18 PM
The good reason is that typical commenter behavior here is read/refresh/read/refresh, and this way, you don't have to scroll through 40, then 60, then 80 comments each time you refresh.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:19 PM
Why is ugh trying to break unfogged?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:21 PM
SCMT - But I said I loved it?!!?
Condi Rice was quite pleasant when she taught at Stanford, so I'll have to put her down on the dykey side.
Posted by Ugh | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:24 PM
Current bad behavior:
* If more than a screenfull of new comments has accumulated, you have to scroll up an unknown amount to start reading again.
Hypothetical different behavior wrongly called bad:
* If you don't make the page skip around with a script, refresh keeps the page where you last finished reading. The number of comments you would have to scroll through is purely a function of how many new comments accumulate, not of how many comments there are in total.
We conclude: a non-bottom-seeking would result in less scrolling, and less losing your place on the page.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:25 PM
Also, the "recent comments" sidebar should be longer.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:26 PM
To add an assumption missing in 95: scrolling down starting from a place certain is better than scrolling up the same amount to a place uncertain. (Uncertain, unless you take special care to remember the number of the comment you were reading.)
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:27 PM
Also, ogged should get over his Kaus-crush.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:28 PM
SB, I think we've been over this before. Take it up with Wolfson.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:28 PM
Okay, okay.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:29 PM
102!
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:29 PM
the "recent comments" sidebar should be longer
Do others agree? This would be very easy to do.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:29 PM
I vote "yea" for a longer "recent comments" sidebar.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:32 PM
Yes, it would be helpful. I use it quite often to click on the place where I was (a place certain!) and then scroll up, in cases where the last "recent comment" I clicked on still shows.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:32 PM
I agree, more or less, but if the goal is not to miss any comments, no sidebar, however long, will do the trick. Maybe we can have all the comments emailed to us like ogged does.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:34 PM
While you're in there, Ogged, will you add a link to the w/comments RSS feed?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:34 PM
What I'd actually like to is how long it's been since the most recent comment on the eight or so threads which been commented on most recently. This way one can figure out how many threads one needs to check up on, rather than trying to remember how many comments there were on a particular thread (which is no longer in most recent comments) last time one looked.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:35 PM
Maybe we can have all the comments emailed to us like ogged does.
I think there is a plugin that would enable this. But I wouldn't do that to you.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:36 PM
To add an assumption missing in 95: scrolling down starting from a place certain is better than scrolling up the same amount to a place uncertain. (Uncertain, unless you take special care to remember the number of the comment you were reading.)
That last option is feasible, if people don't mind cookies (and one can make the assumption that a user reads all currently available comments). Ogged, if I spent some time tonight writing the Javascript for this, would you use it? If so, can you email me your MT comment template?
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:36 PM
Best of all would be if you could beam the posts and ensuing comments directly into my head, so I wouldn't have to refresh the website.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:37 PM
I seem to remember you allowing comment notfication for particular threads when I first got here. Was that a figment of my imagination?
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:37 PM
if I spent some time tonight writing the Javascript for this, would you use it?
If I understand you correctly, that would change the "go to the last comment" behavior so, um, no.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:38 PM
I seem to remember you allowing comment notfication for particular threads when I first got here. Was that a figment of my imagination?
No, that was real, but didn't work well, and I got rid of it.
This is the notification plugin.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:40 PM
109: wouldn't that involve a rather heavy-duty cookie? You'd have to have a (thread-id, last-viewed-comment) pair for each thread. Either that, or some new db tomfoolery (NPI) on the server. No?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:40 PM
"What I'd actually like to is how long it's" s/b "What I'd actually like to see is how long it has"
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:40 PM
Dude, Tommy, call me later if you're making cookies.
(sorry)
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:41 PM
Of course, you could write a greasemonkey script using local storage to accomplish much the same thing. I believe there's one for Metafilter, in fact, though I might be confusing it with the full-fledged FF extension Metafilthy.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:42 PM
Hey, tom/smasher, I might be in DC December 9-10. Maybe we can all be single together. IYKWIM.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:44 PM
I think you understand me correctly -- I'm suggesting changing it to "go to what was the final comment in this thread the last time I visited it" instead. This behavior could also be made toggle-able via a checkbox/radiobox on the homepage or top of the comment thread -- folks could have the option to always go to top, bottom, or last read. Presumably this would be a global setting for each user rather than a thread-specific one.
But I fear change, too. So if this doesn't sound up your alley, hey, that's more time for me to spend doing things that are completely unproductive, rather than just mostly.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:44 PM
December 910: Mineshaft III?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:46 PM
114/117: probably a lot of light-duty cookies instead, in order to take advantage of the expiration feature to clear them out. But since this is all client-side stuff, there wouldn't be any noticeable impact on performance. Handling a few hundred unfogged cookies at a time is a pretty insignificant task for a browser.
You could do it in GM, but GM is really just there for when the normal JS DOM doesn't have enough power to accomplish what you want to do. In this case it does.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:47 PM
118: I don't, so sure!
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:48 PM
Cool, I'll be in touch. Will probably be a pretty hectic couple of days.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:49 PM
folks could have the option to always go to top, bottom, or last read
Well, that sounds good. I'll send you the script.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:50 PM
Ogged is such a whore. He lets everyone edit his scripts now. And I thought I was special. *sniff*
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:54 PM
The first time is always special, Becks.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:55 PM
Yup, I think Ben was the first.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:56 PM
Intead of (or in addition to) "last read", could there be a "keep current page position"? If I understand correctly, that's what a browser would do in the absence of any script jiggery-pokery.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 2:57 PM
I have a fully worked-out position on the ideal handling of comments-refreshing, but every time I try to type it out I get suicidally depressed over the fact that I have a fully worked-out position on the ideal handling of comments-refreshing.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:00 PM
Ogged is such a whore.
This is, I believe, overstated. I can't find, at the moment, the extensive discussion with somecallmetim about the difference between "whore" and "friendly."
"High-maintenance," however, means the same thing it always has.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:00 PM
Come back to comments, slolernrand to life.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:01 PM
Threadjack complete, thank you.
Posted by Ugh | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:02 PM
Excellent.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:02 PM
133 to 131.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:02 PM
Thank you, Smasher, I believe I will: "I was proved f---ing right!"
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:03 PM
I just noticed, to my dismay, that Movable Type now lists separate popup comment windows as "depreciated."
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:03 PM
Do they mean "deprecated"?
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:04 PM
137: that was half of my dismay.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:04 PM
"High-maintenance," however, means the same thing it always has.
You mean "Titties!!"?
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:06 PM
(I'm probably going to regret that comment, but I couldn't resist the pwnage.)
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:06 PM
128: I'm not sure I understand what you're proposing. That, on a refresh of the comment window, it stays scrolled the same distance from the top as you're currently viewing? Hmm. Well, the "go to the top" option will definitely provide that.
But to make it work with "scroll to the bottom" or "scroll to last read" you'd have to tell the difference between getting to the page from a click and from a refresh. I'm not sure how to do that without setting a cookie on the main page, then killing it as soon as you got to the comments page. Which would be ugly. Becks? Ben?
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:07 PM
Arguably, this stuff with deriving an adjective form of my name has caused some good today, beyond the intrinsic enjoyment of the task itself (due to Ugh's comment, etc.).
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:07 PM
You mean "Titties!!"?
Damn. I'd forgotten that one.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:09 PM
Movable Type now lists separate popup comment windows as "[deprecated]."
My influence grows and grows.
Well, the "go to the top" option will definitely provide that.
You're telling me that the "go to top" option will make the page stay where it is, even if where it is, is not the top?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:10 PM
Is it worth my mentioning that sometimes comments open in a separate browser window and sometimes they don't?
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:12 PM
141 - I'm still having trouble getting past "script jiggery-pokery", which is awesome. I'm not quite sure what SB wants -- it sounds like a request that if you're reading comment 30 of a 50 comment thread and refresh, it would stay on comment 30 while adding the new comments to the bottom. Is this correct? Why would someone refresh if they hadn't finished reading all of the comments in the window, though?
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:12 PM
129: I'm glad you said that. It validates my decision to leave my current job in the tech sector. Believe me, by comparison all this Javascript stuff is fascinating.
SB: Confusingly enough, yeah. As I'm envisioning it, "go to the top" will equal "no Javascript, thank you". When the window first pops up you'll find yourself at the top of its contents. If you refresh it, you'll stay where you are. Does that sound right, or do you want to be able to go to the bottom/last read when the window opens, then refresh and stay where you are?
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:13 PM
I think you want to open the window at the top of comments, then refresh where you are.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:16 PM
Re: 146
The idea is that you've read comment 50 of a 50-comment-thread and you hit refresh thus revealing that it is now a 60-comment-thread. But your browser stays pointed at comment 50, so you can start there and read down to comment 60, at which point you hit refresh again, and . . .
Is that right, SB?
By the way, my browser does this already, without any script-fu. And I like it that way.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:18 PM
Becks, tom: I want my current absolute vertical position, relative to the top of the page, to remain unchanged. The "no Javascript, thank you" is what I'm looking for.
Why would someone refresh if they hadn't finished reading all of the comments in the window, though?
Ah, they wouldn't. They would read all the comments, up to comment N of N, and then refresh. Upon refreshing, there will be N+M comments, but they would like to start reading N+1 with only a little bit of down-scrolling.
The same mechanism would cause a refresh at 30 of 50 to land you at 30 of (say) 80, true, but nobody has to use it that way.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:23 PM
149 - I just didn't see how that was different than Tom's "last read" option. Perhaps they just had the same idea but different descriptions.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:24 PM
Armsmasher and MAE: yes.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:26 PM
Ah, they wouldn't. They would read all the comments, up to comment N of N, and then refresh. Upon refreshing, there will be N+M comments, but they would like to start reading N+1 with only a little bit of down-scrolling.
I think it would be easier to just hand out ponies to everyone.
Posted by Ugh | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:27 PM
absolute vertical position, relative
Shoot me.
I just didn't see how that was different than Tom's "last read" option.
From his description it sounded like "last read" required cookies to help the browser to know which comment I was reading, which is more complicated than requiring it to know where on the page I was reading.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:29 PM
Refresh too often and you'll go blind.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:30 PM
Ogged is such a whore.
I think of him more as a coquette.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:30 PM
I think tom's "go to the top" option is what you want, SB, though it's misleadingly labeled.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:31 PM
145: Why no, slol, no, it isn't. But thanks for asking.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:32 PM
Apostropher and the Cockettes, coming soon to a music hall near you.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:32 PM
157: Why don't we wait until they all meet up to decide whether tom gets to be the top.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:36 PM
I think of him more as a coquette.
At the gamineshaft.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:36 PM
Of course, if he were a particularly hard-to-get and graceful coquette, you'd be justified in thinking of it as a gazelleshaft.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:38 PM
151: the difference occurs if the user opens a 50 comment thread, scrolls to 40 and then refreshes. "No Javascript" keeps them at 40; "last read" would put them at 50.
Doing a tiny bit of research, though, it looks like the onscroll events work better than I thought. So, here's a new possible formulation -- two yes/no options:
1) Remember scrolled position?
2) If no memory of position, scroll to bottom?
Make sense? As soon as we have buy-in from our stakeholders I'll draw up some use cases and a GANTT chart. But what are our metrics?!
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:40 PM
"Remember scrolled position" is misleading if you're talking about opening a new window. "Remember last position" is better, even if it doesn't match up so neatly with the event names.
I think you'll find my HID consultancy fees quite reasonable.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:43 PM
164: opening a new window that has been opened and then closed? or opening a new window that hasn't yet been viewed?
I'm suggesting that the same scrolled-memory mechanism be used both for refreshes and for the first of the preceding cases. For unviewed windows there'll be no memory (cookie), and the top or bottom scrolling behavior will kick in.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:47 PM
In my formulation, the questions go:
1. Fuck with it?
2. If fucking with it, fnord?
I don't care what fnord is, because I'm not fucking with it.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:47 PM
As soon as we have buy-in from our stakeholders I'll draw up some use cases and a GANTT chart. But what are our metrics?!
AAAAHHH!!!! Run away run away!
Posted by Ugh | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:48 PM
I mean, at one point I open thread 4273, then close the browser, then later reopen it—I'm not likely to be thinking about returning to the same place as returning to the scrolled position, as it's a new window.
Everyone wish me a moderate speaking pace and varied, natural-sounding intonation—I'm to give a presentation in class soon.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:49 PM
But what are our metrics?!
How about these?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:50 PM
I think I'm going to stay out of it from here. My performance on this thread has been truly retarded considering this is what I get paid to do.
Damned bird flu. Damned Sudafed.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:53 PM
My performance was retarded too. I'm going to go eat peanut butter.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:54 PM
I thought "retarded" had been deprecated.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:55 PM
I'm not likely to be thinking about returning to the same place as returning to the scrolled position, as it's a new window
I don't understand what you mean. Each thread will keep track of its scrolled position on an individual basis. But I suspect you understand this.
Tell you what: I'll try to whip something up tonight that defaults to the current behavior, but adds new options. Ogged can ignore it or use it. If the latter, you all will then be responsible for telling me how much you hate it. It's a plan, at least.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:56 PM
I'll be commenting on Fogged until I get off the meds.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 3:56 PM
Tom, Charles and I are planning to play loud music and drink at your house tonight, so you might want to set your deliverables deadline for Thursday.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 4:02 PM
In any case, you do have to wonder... why anyone ever runs for a second term as president.
Let's hear it for Coolidge! He totally dodged the blame for the Great Depression that way. I hear he spent the rest of Hoover's term rolling around naked on a giant pile of money while his servants burned the homeless to keep him warm.
Posted by Isle of Toads | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 4:38 PM
"The sources said Mr. Bush maintains daily contact with only four people...."
Color me a tad skeptical that he only has contact with Andy Card two or three times a week.
Posted by Gary Farber | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 5:15 PM
I thought "retarded" had been deprecated.
Yes, by Michael Bérubé at some length and with some grace.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 7:07 PM
Yes, that's what I was thinking of.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 7:10 PM
Belated retraction: My performance was poor.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 7:19 PM
Each thread will keep track of its scrolled position on an individual basis.
Yeah, I'm just objecting to the term "scrolled".
My presentation went well, no thanks to y'all, aside from ac.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 7:27 PM
So here's what you should do for the "Recent Comments" sidebar: something like Brian Weatherson, which lists the most recently commented threads, with who commented on it when. That way when one thread takes off we'll still be able to see if there are any strange comments on the other threads.
Admittedly it'll make it harder if you want to, say, catch all the Bridgeplatica, because if SB comments and then some lesser commenter comments immediately after SB won't show up in the sidebar. But if that's the way you feel about it you should probably be applying for Kotsko's "read all the comments" fellowship anyway.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 10:54 PM
if SB comments and then some lesser commenter comments
I'm so appreciated! (Thanks, Matt! Crisis on!) But please not at anyone else's expense. I'd rather not be in the same sentence as a referece to "lesser commenters".
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:04 PM
Some of us went and laid down in a darkened corner, curled up in a fetal position, and cried after reading 182.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:12 PM
I'm still having trouble getting past "script jiggery-pokery", which is awesome.
Thanks, Becks. In case anyone has the wrong idea, I should mention that j.-p. isn't my invention (evidence).
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:20 PM
I agree to the proposal in 182 to the extent that it agrees with 107.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:23 PM
Hmm. I don't like the Weatherson system at all. I've now made the recent comments show the last 15, rather than 10, comments.
I'll look into the notifier plugin.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:31 PM
I think it's a great idea, too.
Although I have found that if you use the comments feed on bloglines you can get an idea of which threads have been active recently. The main problem with that is the delay (you can catch up in the evening, if you want to, but it's not so good when new comments are continuing to appear).
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:35 PM
I hate you all. Any weathersonian active comments thread would have to list the active time to the minute. You know how ugly that would be? Too ugly to ever be seen, that's how ugly.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:41 PM
I'll install the notifier plugin, but since it requires modifications to the comments templates, it'll have to wait until I get the templates back from Tom, which, inshallah, won't be for years.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:52 PM
Because, you know, there's only one template.
It's a wonder we can read the comments at all, since the template, being in tom's hands, isn't on the server anymore.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:56 PM
They're going to throw you out of grad school, you know. There's no sense in me mucking with the template when I'm going to get changes from Tom. Yes, I could merge the changes, but that's a massive pain in my patootie.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-15-05 11:59 PM
For being a smartass, or for not doing any work?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-16-05 12:00 AM
Smartassery.
How was the presentation?
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-16-05 12:01 AM
My presentation went well, no thanks to y'all, aside from ac.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-16-05 12:03 AM
I should really look into some kind of comment notification thingy.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-16-05 12:05 AM
Yeah, timestamps too.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-16-05 12:09 AM
Frankly, Ben, I thought the thread was concluded perfectly by 196.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 11-16-05 12:11 AM
Whereas I thought 197 concluded it rather well.
Now we're both unhappy.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 11-16-05 12:13 AM
196!
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 11-16-05 12:13 AM