Wait I thought "a real New York experience" was code for staying at the Mineshaft until closing bell and then going home with Jake Gyllenhaal. Is that what happened after the meetup, that we have not heard about on the NMSWT post? ("Non-MineShaft World Tour")? What's up with the selective editing? We want the full story, -gg-d! Was he hung like FL?
I'd just like to note that Google's first hit for 'short index finger' is a Slate article by Timothy Noah entitled "Does a Short Index Finger Make You Gay?"
Also a fish, but I agree that 1S is the right call there.
1NT promises no suit you can bid at the one level, but spades are at least a weak possibility. 2D promises more strength than you got. All other bids (or a pass) are haram, as I see it.
I'm with Weiner at one spade, although passing is also an option. Void in your partner's suit knocks the strength of your response way, way down, so nothing at the 2 level works -- I think I'd be looking at the score to see what a minimal chance at a part score, or preventing the other side from bidding was worth, and bidding one spade or passing on that basis.
But if your partner has like 15 points and Qxx in spades he or she might up the spades, and then you could be in real trouble. I don't think that passing is an option.
(Oh, and LB, when we play, do know that I tend to bid a little...recklessly.)
Ultimately I like 1NT as a bid there, essentially as a means of stalling. If your partner has a minimum hand and passes then you pass and are probably in the correct spot. If your partner bids you can be much more encouraging.
I don't mind 1S as a bid but what do you bid if partner responds 2H.
If you bid 1NT and partner responds 2H they are showing 6 of them and you can pass but if they bid 2H over 1S they might have a weak hand with 5H and you could be in trouble.
Ultimately I like 1NT as a bid there, essentially as a means of stalling
I'd be with you, except that I have a memory of 1 NT as promising at least somewhat balanced distribution even as a rebid -- that it, I thought of it as ruled out by the void. But it does seem to lead to fewer disasters then the other options.
BTW, in the actual auction I was the opener. My partner bid 2D, I bid 4H, partner passed and it made 6 (because of a friendly lead and good split.
I was holding
S: AQxx
H: KQT9xxx
D: void
C: Kx
It was an odd hand. As it turns out if my partner had bid 1NT I still would have jumped to 4H so we ended up in the same spot. If partner had bid 1S I would have thought there was a possibility of Slam, and I don't know what I would have bid (3H?).
I'd be with you, except that I have a memory of 1 NT as promising at least somewhat balanced distribution even as a rebid
My theory is that if you're going to lie it's better to lie with a weak bid.
I think any bid has problems so it's more a choice of what lie to tell. Obviously in the actual circumstance I would have been very annoyed if you had been my partner and passed.
I think that hand is stronger than a typical 1NT opener (particularly if partner can bid a suit other than hearts) and that makes up for the fact that I'm lying about the distribution.
Back to the strike, I'm surprised at how anti-union the sentiment in my office has been. I expected some growls about the prospect of walking to work in the cold, but not all of the talk of "all unions do is strike/they're outdated and should be abolished/if they got rid of the unions, they could hire someone to do those jobs for $10/hour and Metrocards would be cheaper." Makes me sad.
Becks -- is the place where you work (as a consultant IIRC) not unionized? I thought City government offices generally were. But it's possible I'm misremembering your story, or just more broadly being mistaken.
Unions are terribly, terribly unpopular these days, even among generally lefty people. As someone who thinks of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" as having been set to they tune of "Solidarity Forever", that makes me sad, but it seems to be very much the case.
I'll cop to being anti-union, though less so than before the Apostate took office. I can even trace my feelings back to its root: an SI interview with Brian Bosworth in which he claimed that he and his co-workers deliberately made small adjustments to cars coming off an assembly line to create irritations to future owners.
I can't say that the MTA is particularly popular either, though.
NickS, I'm trying to puzzle through that hand. Your 1NT "lie low" argument is pretty convincing, but I don't think that the reason you and your partner didn't bid the slam isn't that the respondant didn't find the perfect lie. (Holy triple negative!) Do you guys play strong or weak two bids?
Politically the advantages of unionization are pretty evident, since unions provide centralized institutional support for large groups who will not be heard as scattered individuals, and also provide a center of political communication and education which would not exist if it were done on an ad hoc basis by scattered individuals.
The advantages to workers in union jobs are pretty evident too.
I'm convinced that the real killer is the misuse of union grievance procedures to protect the wrong people. I've worked union jobs for about 25 years and was briefly a union rep myself, and I've talked to at least five union reps (friends or co-workers) who had horror stories about having to defend poor workers who a.) had a hostile attitude and were hated by all their coworkers, and b.) were anti-union. Some people are malcontents who dedicate their lives to causing trouble.
There also might be a problem with bad workers who are pro-union and beloved by their coworkers, but the one I just mentioned is about as bad as you can get. I don't think that unions should protect workers who deliberately sabotage the work, but working without any union protection or work rules at all (Walmart) can be brutal.
My argument that if my partner bid 1S I might be thinking slam is just to say that we might get in trouble.
The issue is that, as we play it, a 1S response over a 1H bid doesn't really have a maximum point count. It could be as low as 7 or 8 points, but you could bid 1S with 12 or 13 points (that's why it's a forcing bid). So it can be tricky to figure out exactly how many points you have as a partnership.
It only made 6 because the opponent was trying to defeat 4 and lead the King of Spades from a king doubleton trying to find 3 quick tricks (if partner had the ace he could lead another spade and then trump the return -- as it turns out partner had the ace of diamonds rather than the ace of spades, but it was a reasonable risk to take based on the bidding).
union grievance procedures to protect the wrong people.
I guess, but how onerous is this? I mean, grievance procedures are supposed to be about providing due process for people before they're disciplined or fired, not about making it impossible to discipline or fire anyone. (Now, I'm horrendously ignorant on a personal level here -- my mom was a union flight attendant all her career, but grievances never seemed to come up and she didn't talk about them much, and I've never worked a union job.)
Also, I strongly support unions, but in a world in which right to organize laws were strong and strongly enforced I wouldn't mind seeing some more limitations placed on unions.
But I just don't see any alternatives ways to fill the roles that unions can play
One thing I found interesting was that two of my coworkers attributed their newish anti-union feelings to recent bargaining situations where unions sold out new hires by agreeing to contracts that preserved benefits for current employees while reducing benefits for future employees. It made them feel like unions had too much of an "I've got mine"/drunk with power attitude. I tried to argue that perhaps this was less the unions flexing their muscles than a sign at how weak unions have really become -- they've been reduced to eating their seed corn. They're reduced to agreeing to contracts that make them less relevant to future employees and, thus, make future bargaining more difficult.
And note that such a two-tier agreement is what the MTA wants here, and what the union is holding out against. Management always wants such agreements, because they have exactly the effect you describe: destroying solidarity.
Eh, even pro-union lefties are often only pro-union until it affects them, and then when they want to bash the particular union causing them trouble they say, "You know I'm pro-labor, but..."
I can even trace my [union] feelings back to its root: an SI interview with Brian Bosworth
Well, that's mighty honest of you scmt, but wah? Some outrageous football player messes with cars and you hold it against unions? This makes a lot less sense than hating all businesses because of Ken Lay or Bernie Ebbers.
I don't remember what the grievances were, but the BART strike in the Bay Area in the 90s seemed to generate a lot of hostility towards transit unions, at least in the short run.
It also revived some of the transbay ferry services.
It made them feel like unions had too much of an "I've got mine"/drunk with power attitude. I tried to argue that perhaps this was less the unions flexing their muscles than a sign at how weak unions have really become.
I've been told that a good part of the explanation is actually non-economic. Different unions have different cultures and substantially different understandings about what their goals are. Old-school trade and manufacturing unions are notorious for being willing to screw over anybody if it means more jobs for current members. Newer unions like SEIU tend to think more strategically (worrying about long-term membership rather than just the interests of current members) and also see themselves as representing not just current members but also non-unionized members of the same industry. (This difference is one of the reasons for the recent split in AFL-CIO.)
Me: "Union grievance procedures protect the wrong people"
LB: I guess, but how onerous is this?
In this case, it produced bad feeling within the union. The union reps I mentioned were strong union people, and it made them feel bad about their union work when they ended up working for malicious shitheads. Union rules did make it very hard to fire anyone for any reason.
I didn't say, but I also know of many cases when the union protected the right people, kept them from being abused, underpaid or fired, etc., etc.
I don't know of a solution for this, and my political position is to support unions. I've never been in a personal situation where I had divided feelings about unions, either.
Folks in the IT business seem to be unusually anti-union. It's part of this weird strain of libertarianism that arises when geeks become drunk on their internet-y power. Try telling an IT guy that he ought to be unionized and he'll laugh. But c'mon -- commodity labor? Check. Can be done cheaper overseas? Check. Requires only a technical education? Check. Frequent abuse of overtime ineligibility by supervisors? Check. The list goes on...
Some outrageous football player messes with cars and you hold it against unions?
The context of the story indicated that he was being one of the guys, and simply doing what everyone else at the plant did. It's the root; the water is probably made of complaints like the ones that Emerson makes. I can certainly see the value of unions, and think, in principle, they are good things. But my visceral reaction is anti-union.
At base, I just don't like powerful monopolies, whether management or labor.
I've heard that IT people have become much less libertarian since their temporary market advantage (booming IT sector, worker shortage) disappeared, and they became ordinary workers.
In the 60's and 70's IBM was notoriously anti-union, and that was okay because their employees were treated like gold and were making very good money, especially from the rising stock price. Employees were not given stock options per se, but IBM employees could purchase IBM stock at a 15% discount.
So I think that IBM started the IT world off anti-union and it has stayed that way ever since.
The bridge discussion would interest me if I knew how to play bridge, which I don't. But I have always wanted to learn. Are there online tutorials. Since bridge requires partners, it seems like it might be hard to teach via tutorial.
The old school building and trade unions did not impress me, and I was pretty anti union, but I also considered myself a Republican.
And I'm sort of mad at the Union movement in this country, because it focused so much on its own members at the expense of society-wide policies. In other countries unions worked to get universal healthcare; here they made sure that their members had great benefits.
UPDATE: I tried to post this just after 67, but it wouldn't load. paperwight had a post up about internet tech geek libertarianism. He thought that part of it could be traced to video games, because in video games you do everything on your own with no help from anyone else.
Yay! I was just informed that Colleague has to come in tomorrow for some reason so I can work from home and use remote access should the strike happen. No freezing my ass off on the bridge!
(For the well-being and warmth of others, I'm still hoping it's averted, of course.)
because in video games you do everything on your own with no help from anyone else.
On the one hand, I'm willing to believe that no one has ever ascended in nethack without help from others. On the other, if anyone did, I would understand that person's being a libertarian.
That would be a very funny final message -- "If you did this by yourself, you are hereby authorized to take Ayn Rand seriously. Everyone else still isn't."
Myself, I have never accepted help from anyone playing nethack. On the other hand, I've never gotten terribly far with it.
I don't think it's gaming. I think it's because there is such an enormous variation in abilities among tech people. True of all skilled labor, I guess, but particularly obvious among engineers.
77 -- Here's an idea for a totally geeky research project: As technology companies move away from a Mythical Man-Month software engineering approach that is based on a heirarchy of talent to a collaborative XP approach, do their employee's views become less libertarian and more egalitarian?
And I'm sort of mad at the Union movement in this country, because it focused so much on its own members at the expense of society-wide policies. In other countries unions worked to get universal healthcare; here they made sure that their members had great benefits.
I suspect that, during the Cold War at least, this was at least partly related to anti-communism. Which doesn't excuse it.
City officials are now estimating that there's a better than %50 chance of a strike. And the weather is projected for "freezing rain" tomorrow.
Yo, transit workers' union: if you can arrange for the expiration of your contract to happen in, say, early June, you're likely to get more support from the public. Parisians actually get nostaglic over Metro strikes in years past; their anecdotes always feature pleasantly warm evenings. If you're shooting for expensive rancor, however, a rainy day a week and a half before Christmas is perfect.
The local news was just on -- the anchor said something like "If you are taking the train or the busses into NYC tomorrow, you should pay attention because they will let you off at different places" -- Well! My ears pricked right up and my gaze was directed at the flickering screen, which proceeded to list the various means of public transit fro Jersey to NYC, with their respective termini, which were all the expected ones.
Asked Ellen, "How come they are saying those are different places? Those are the normal places." And she explained to me that they were telling people who drive into the city and don't independently know how to use public transit. Well I was pretty skeptical that anyone would not only drive into the city but also do so out of ignorance how to do otherwise. But that is the only reasonable explanation I guess for what the newscast was doing. Odd.
Oh, fucking brill. Mr. B. just called and is using the transit strike to beg off coming home tomorrow. Which means I have to get PK to Spanish school Saturday morning by nine on the bus after supervising my final exam tomorrow night until 9 pm.
Hmphf. Your pain. Did you just have to spend the evening in a bar with (literally) 300 lawyers and 300 support staff being festive? Wearing plastic fedoras? Did you have to listen to a speech from the Managing Shareholder, flown up from Miami for the purpose, and think "Just because he's Cuban, do they have to introduce him with a burst of samba music? No, really they don't." Office parties suck big hairy balls.
No, instead I made gingerbread cookies with a five year old, took out the garbage, shoveled the steps and walk (which I'll need to do again tomorrow morning), fixed dinner, and rescheduled a meeting.
But you're right. I didn't have to wear a plastic fedora. In fact, I wore the same pyjamas I've been wearing all week.
No, instead I made gingerbread cookies with a five year 0ld,
Cool, we did the gingerbread house thing the other weekend. My family has a traditional recipe (derived from a 1977 Ladies Home Journal) that takes about three full days start to finish. This was the first year I did it with my kids -- a friend whose kids play with Sally and Newt talked me into it, and then pointed and laughed at me for two consecutive weekends when she realized what a hassle it was.
Did I say that the damn office party had three open bars and not one of them had Irish whiskey?
Here's where I admit that I have no idea what, precisely, makes samba samba. They introduced him with a burst of cheesy Cuban music. I don't know what you call it.
Way to take the fun out of a good nitpick, LB! I think you mean salsa. Samba is Brazilian, but I'm not sure I could identify any Brazilian music pre-bossa nova (think "Girl from Ipanema"). And, you know, even without Irish whiskey shouldn't you be able to get some fun out of three open bars?
not if you enjoy making people feel awkward. And free booze. And it also helps if you bring a date nobody knows, so that you can excuse yourself from awkward conversations, having made them awkward yourself.
perhaps if I had, I could have played the whole post off as some sort of clever word play, that wasn't funny, but also not indicative of an inability to write and think.
Way to take the fun out of a good nitpick, LB! I think you mean salsa.
Darn it, I do know the diference between samba and salsa -- I was just in an office-party induced stupor of hatred, which lowered my IQ a little past room temperature. Yes, salsa. Not samba.
And, you know, even without Irish whiskey shouldn't you be able to get some fun out of three open bars?
If I'm going to be miserable, I'd rather be sober. Drunk is only fun if I'm having fun independently.
Drunk is only fun if I'm having fun independently.
Words for the ages. The same applies in spades to marihuana-induced intoxication.
BTW was the party at a bar or catered in your office? If the former I'm amazed you were able to find a bar in NYC that does not stock Jameson -- it seems to me to be the most universally-available whiskey in the city, or possibly second to Jack Daniels. Allow me to recommend that you try drinking Old Grand-Dad sometime -- I used to only drink Jameson and Bushmill's, and Old Grand-Dad opened new horizons of whiskey flavor for me.
None of the New Yorkers have seen fit to note that the strike has not happened as of yet; or anyway, it's limited to two privately-held bus lines, one of which operates an express bus from midtown to Queens which may be how Ogged was planning to get to the airport for all I know.
I was looking for a link to explain that and found this article, in which Saiselgy writes:
Pickler made her distaste for Dean pretty clear with an Oct. 25 story castigating the former governor's inability to correctly spell "spondylolysis" (Microsoft Word's spell checker doesn't know it, either!)
Apparently they're doing a phased-in strike; some outer borough bus lines are striking, but those in the main part of the city won't be on strike unless a contract still isn't agreed to.
(For those who don't like to click links, Nedra Pickler was an AP reporter who liked to dot her campaign coverage with totally bizarre sentences of the form "Democrat X failed to mention Y.")
But you're getting a real New York experience. Don't you feel special?
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:24 AM
Wait I thought "a real New York experience" was code for staying at the Mineshaft until closing bell and then going home with Jake Gyllenhaal. Is that what happened after the meetup, that we have not heard about on the NMSWT post? ("Non-MineShaft World Tour")? What's up with the selective editing? We want the full story, -gg-d! Was he hung like FL?
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:29 AM
I bet the Chinatown bus isn't on strike.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:30 AM
Better start walking to JFK.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:30 AM
You can take a ferry. Ferries are fun.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:31 AM
I don't think the buses that run from PA and GCS to the airport are run by the MTA.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:38 AM
Given the size of your hands, thumbing a ride should be no problem.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:38 AM
But did you notice that his index finger was disproportionately small?
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:42 AM
Take a cab.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:43 AM
They aren't. So they shouldn't be on strike. I would leave extra time for the trip, though, traffic will be brutal if the strike happens.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:44 AM
Um, don't try to thumb a cab. You will not get a cab. You could call a car service.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:49 AM
Tia -- because of his swarthy complexion you mean?
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:51 AM
Actually because the cabbies will spot his short index finger. And because when there's a transit strike there is, you know, competition.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:53 AM
I'd just like to note that Google's first hit for 'short index finger' is a Slate article by Timothy Noah entitled "Does a Short Index Finger Make You Gay?"
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 10:58 AM
Jesus, I just missed that. My education in public transportation was grueling enough already.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:04 AM
5 wasn't serious advice. But I myself will be taking a ferry in tomorrow, if there's a strike. Ferry and a hike, that's my plan.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:07 AM
Weather should be pleasantly wet for the hike part of it -- I am in the same boat.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:09 AM
Treating this as an open thread . . .
Given the recent interest in bridge I had an bidding question come up last night.
You sit North. Partner opens 1 Heart, Opponent passes.
You hold:
S: Jxxx
H: void
D: QJxxx
C: AJxx
What do you bid?
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:10 AM
I'm a fish, but why not one spade?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:18 AM
Guilty.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:21 AM
Because one spade would suggest you had five of them. I'd go with two diamonds.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:23 AM
Also a fish, but I agree that 1S is the right call there.
1NT promises no suit you can bid at the one level, but spades are at least a weak possibility. 2D promises more strength than you got. All other bids (or a pass) are haram, as I see it.
Posted by sexualchocolate | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:26 AM
I'm with Weiner at one spade, although passing is also an option. Void in your partner's suit knocks the strength of your response way, way down, so nothing at the 2 level works -- I think I'd be looking at the score to see what a minimal chance at a part score, or preventing the other side from bidding was worth, and bidding one spade or passing on that basis.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:27 AM
21: I always played responder can bid a major with four, so as to discover 4-4 or even 4-3 suits.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:34 AM
But if your partner has like 15 points and Qxx in spades he or she might up the spades, and then you could be in real trouble. I don't think that passing is an option.
(Oh, and LB, when we play, do know that I tend to bid a little...recklessly.)
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:38 AM
(Oh, and LB, when we play, do know that I tend to bid a little...recklessly.)
Hot!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:41 AM
OMFG -- Sorry to break in on the bridge discussion but you guys have got to take a look at this.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:43 AM
"We may be forced to erase his package with digital effects" is the new "we had to destroy the village in order to save it." Or something.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:44 AM
Ogged has large hands? Ooh! Are they pianist-like, or mitt-like?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:47 AM
They're like foam novelty fingers at baseball games.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:47 AM
And they honk when you shake hands with him.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:53 AM
Ultimately I like 1NT as a bid there, essentially as a means of stalling. If your partner has a minimum hand and passes then you pass and are probably in the correct spot. If your partner bids you can be much more encouraging.
I don't mind 1S as a bid but what do you bid if partner responds 2H.
If you bid 1NT and partner responds 2H they are showing 6 of them and you can pass but if they bid 2H over 1S they might have a weak hand with 5H and you could be in trouble.
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:56 AM
This thread has gone: transit strike - ferries - bridge.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 11:57 AM
Ultimately I like 1NT as a bid there, essentially as a means of stalling
I'd be with you, except that I have a memory of 1 NT as promising at least somewhat balanced distribution even as a rebid -- that it, I thought of it as ruled out by the void. But it does seem to lead to fewer disasters then the other options.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:01 PM
BTW, in the actual auction I was the opener. My partner bid 2D, I bid 4H, partner passed and it made 6 (because of a friendly lead and good split.
I was holding
S: AQxx
H: KQT9xxx
D: void
C: Kx
It was an odd hand. As it turns out if my partner had bid 1NT I still would have jumped to 4H so we ended up in the same spot. If partner had bid 1S I would have thought there was a possibility of Slam, and I don't know what I would have bid (3H?).
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:04 PM
My sainted mother would have enjoyed this thread.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:04 PM
Take me to the bridge.... I can't find the bridge....
(James Brown / Led Zeppelin)
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:06 PM
I'd be with you, except that I have a memory of 1 NT as promising at least somewhat balanced distribution even as a rebid
My theory is that if you're going to lie it's better to lie with a weak bid.
I think any bid has problems so it's more a choice of what lie to tell. Obviously in the actual circumstance I would have been very annoyed if you had been my partner and passed.
I think that hand is stronger than a typical 1NT opener (particularly if partner can bid a suit other than hearts) and that makes up for the fact that I'm lying about the distribution.
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:07 PM
Gimme the bridge now! Gimme the bridge now!
(Chuck Brown)
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:08 PM
Back to the strike, I'm surprised at how anti-union the sentiment in my office has been. I expected some growls about the prospect of walking to work in the cold, but not all of the talk of "all unions do is strike/they're outdated and should be abolished/if they got rid of the unions, they could hire someone to do those jobs for $10/hour and Metrocards would be cheaper." Makes me sad.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:11 PM
Becks -- is the place where you work (as a consultant IIRC) not unionized? I thought City government offices generally were. But it's possible I'm misremembering your story, or just more broadly being mistaken.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:13 PM
The place where I work is unionized. The muttering is coming from the consultancy, who are not.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:18 PM
Ah. That must create a pleasant workplace atmosphere.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:21 PM
Unions are terribly, terribly unpopular these days, even among generally lefty people. As someone who thinks of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" as having been set to they tune of "Solidarity Forever", that makes me sad, but it seems to be very much the case.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:23 PM
30/31: Ah. Never mind then.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:25 PM
I'll cop to being anti-union, though less so than before the Apostate took office. I can even trace my feelings back to its root: an SI interview with Brian Bosworth in which he claimed that he and his co-workers deliberately made small adjustments to cars coming off an assembly line to create irritations to future owners.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:30 PM
I can't say that the MTA is particularly popular either, though.
NickS, I'm trying to puzzle through that hand. Your 1NT "lie low" argument is pretty convincing, but I don't think that the reason you and your partner didn't bid the slam isn't that the respondant didn't find the perfect lie. (Holy triple negative!) Do you guys play strong or weak two bids?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:34 PM
So, no jokes about magic carpets, huh?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:39 PM
No no, this is the bridge discussion. You want the third room down the hall to your left.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:43 PM
Politically the advantages of unionization are pretty evident, since unions provide centralized institutional support for large groups who will not be heard as scattered individuals, and also provide a center of political communication and education which would not exist if it were done on an ad hoc basis by scattered individuals.
The advantages to workers in union jobs are pretty evident too.
I'm convinced that the real killer is the misuse of union grievance procedures to protect the wrong people. I've worked union jobs for about 25 years and was briefly a union rep myself, and I've talked to at least five union reps (friends or co-workers) who had horror stories about having to defend poor workers who a.) had a hostile attitude and were hated by all their coworkers, and b.) were anti-union. Some people are malcontents who dedicate their lives to causing trouble.
There also might be a problem with bad workers who are pro-union and beloved by their coworkers, but the one I just mentioned is about as bad as you can get. I don't think that unions should protect workers who deliberately sabotage the work, but working without any union protection or work rules at all (Walmart) can be brutal.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:45 PM
We shouldn't be in slam.
My argument that if my partner bid 1S I might be thinking slam is just to say that we might get in trouble.
The issue is that, as we play it, a 1S response over a 1H bid doesn't really have a maximum point count. It could be as low as 7 or 8 points, but you could bid 1S with 12 or 13 points (that's why it's a forcing bid). So it can be tricky to figure out exactly how many points you have as a partnership.
It only made 6 because the opponent was trying to defeat 4 and lead the King of Spades from a king doubleton trying to find 3 quick tricks (if partner had the ace he could lead another spade and then trump the return -- as it turns out partner had the ace of diamonds rather than the ace of spades, but it was a reasonable risk to take based on the bidding).
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:46 PM
The hard part about bridge discussions is that there's no way to fake it.
I think that she should double and redouble and ruff the queen, though.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:47 PM
Can the playing of card games be unionized? Would such a thing be desirable?
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:48 PM
union grievance procedures to protect the wrong people.
I guess, but how onerous is this? I mean, grievance procedures are supposed to be about providing due process for people before they're disciplined or fired, not about making it impossible to discipline or fire anyone. (Now, I'm horrendously ignorant on a personal level here -- my mom was a union flight attendant all her career, but grievances never seemed to come up and she didn't talk about them much, and I've never worked a union job.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:48 PM
Also, I strongly support unions, but in a world in which right to organize laws were strong and strongly enforced I wouldn't mind seeing some more limitations placed on unions.
But I just don't see any alternatives ways to fill the roles that unions can play
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:49 PM
So, no jokes about magic carpets, huh?
Well, there's this, which isn't really a joke per se, but does incorporate swimming, King Kong, and awkward sex, so it's more or less on topic.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:49 PM
One thing I found interesting was that two of my coworkers attributed their newish anti-union feelings to recent bargaining situations where unions sold out new hires by agreeing to contracts that preserved benefits for current employees while reducing benefits for future employees. It made them feel like unions had too much of an "I've got mine"/drunk with power attitude. I tried to argue that perhaps this was less the unions flexing their muscles than a sign at how weak unions have really become -- they've been reduced to eating their seed corn. They're reduced to agreeing to contracts that make them less relevant to future employees and, thus, make future bargaining more difficult.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:49 PM
And note that such a two-tier agreement is what the MTA wants here, and what the union is holding out against. Management always wants such agreements, because they have exactly the effect you describe: destroying solidarity.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:51 PM
Eh, even pro-union lefties are often only pro-union until it affects them, and then when they want to bash the particular union causing them trouble they say, "You know I'm pro-labor, but..."
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 12:53 PM
I can even trace my [union] feelings back to its root: an SI interview with Brian Bosworth
Well, that's mighty honest of you scmt, but wah? Some outrageous football player messes with cars and you hold it against unions? This makes a lot less sense than hating all businesses because of Ken Lay or Bernie Ebbers.
Posted by cw | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:02 PM
NickS, I've been told that I have a criminally low standard for jump-shifting.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:04 PM
I don't remember what the grievances were, but the BART strike in the Bay Area in the 90s seemed to generate a lot of hostility towards transit unions, at least in the short run.
It also revived some of the transbay ferry services.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:07 PM
So, no jokes about magic carpets, huh?
Well, there's this, which isn't really a joke per se, but does incorporate swimming, King Kong, and awkward sex, so it's more or less on topic.
And of course there's always this classic. Not exactly a flying carpet, but close.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:10 PM
It made them feel like unions had too much of an "I've got mine"/drunk with power attitude. I tried to argue that perhaps this was less the unions flexing their muscles than a sign at how weak unions have really become.
I've been told that a good part of the explanation is actually non-economic. Different unions have different cultures and substantially different understandings about what their goals are. Old-school trade and manufacturing unions are notorious for being willing to screw over anybody if it means more jobs for current members. Newer unions like SEIU tend to think more strategically (worrying about long-term membership rather than just the interests of current members) and also see themselves as representing not just current members but also non-unionized members of the same industry. (This difference is one of the reasons for the recent split in AFL-CIO.)
Posted by Alp Aker | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:17 PM
Me: "Union grievance procedures protect the wrong people"
LB: I guess, but how onerous is this?
In this case, it produced bad feeling within the union. The union reps I mentioned were strong union people, and it made them feel bad about their union work when they ended up working for malicious shitheads. Union rules did make it very hard to fire anyone for any reason.
I didn't say, but I also know of many cases when the union protected the right people, kept them from being abused, underpaid or fired, etc., etc.
I don't know of a solution for this, and my political position is to support unions. I've never been in a personal situation where I had divided feelings about unions, either.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:22 PM
65 me.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:24 PM
is that an open invitation, JE?
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:25 PM
Folks in the IT business seem to be unusually anti-union. It's part of this weird strain of libertarianism that arises when geeks become drunk on their internet-y power. Try telling an IT guy that he ought to be unionized and he'll laugh. But c'mon -- commodity labor? Check. Can be done cheaper overseas? Check. Requires only a technical education? Check. Frequent abuse of overtime ineligibility by supervisors? Check. The list goes on...
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:29 PM
Some outrageous football player messes with cars and you hold it against unions?
The context of the story indicated that he was being one of the guys, and simply doing what everyone else at the plant did. It's the root; the water is probably made of complaints like the ones that Emerson makes. I can certainly see the value of unions, and think, in principle, they are good things. But my visceral reaction is anti-union.
At base, I just don't like powerful monopolies, whether management or labor.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:35 PM
I've heard that IT people have become much less libertarian since their temporary market advantage (booming IT sector, worker shortage) disappeared, and they became ordinary workers.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 1:41 PM
In the 60's and 70's IBM was notoriously anti-union, and that was okay because their employees were treated like gold and were making very good money, especially from the rising stock price. Employees were not given stock options per se, but IBM employees could purchase IBM stock at a 15% discount.
So I think that IBM started the IT world off anti-union and it has stayed that way ever since.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 2:40 PM
The bridge discussion would interest me if I knew how to play bridge, which I don't. But I have always wanted to learn. Are there online tutorials. Since bridge requires partners, it seems like it might be hard to teach via tutorial.
The old school building and trade unions did not impress me, and I was pretty anti union, but I also considered myself a Republican.
And I'm sort of mad at the Union movement in this country, because it focused so much on its own members at the expense of society-wide policies. In other countries unions worked to get universal healthcare; here they made sure that their members had great benefits.
UPDATE: I tried to post this just after 67, but it wouldn't load. paperwight had a post up about internet tech geek libertarianism. He thought that part of it could be traced to video games, because in video games you do everything on your own with no help from anyone else.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:00 PM
Yay! I was just informed that Colleague has to come in tomorrow for some reason so I can work from home and use remote access should the strike happen. No freezing my ass off on the bridge!
(For the well-being and warmth of others, I'm still hoping it's averted, of course.)
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:06 PM
because in video games you do everything on your own with no help from anyone else.
On the one hand, I'm willing to believe that no one has ever ascended in nethack without help from others. On the other, if anyone did, I would understand that person's being a libertarian.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:13 PM
That would be a very funny final message -- "If you did this by yourself, you are hereby authorized to take Ayn Rand seriously. Everyone else still isn't."
Myself, I have never accepted help from anyone playing nethack. On the other hand, I've never gotten terribly far with it.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:16 PM
because in video games you do everything on your own with no help from anyone else.
Apparently, sometimes not.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:21 PM
I don't think it's gaming. I think it's because there is such an enormous variation in abilities among tech people. True of all skilled labor, I guess, but particularly obvious among engineers.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:25 PM
Ogged,
You might want to take a look at the NYPost's Transit Strike Survival Guide. This page (.pdf document) has info on taxi and for-hire vehicle zones:
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/strike02.pdf
Posted by Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:28 PM
77 -- Here's an idea for a totally geeky research project: As technology companies move away from a Mythical Man-Month software engineering approach that is based on a heirarchy of talent to a collaborative XP approach, do their employee's views become less libertarian and more egalitarian?
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:36 PM
And I'm sort of mad at the Union movement in this country, because it focused so much on its own members at the expense of society-wide policies. In other countries unions worked to get universal healthcare; here they made sure that their members had great benefits.
I suspect that, during the Cold War at least, this was at least partly related to anti-communism. Which doesn't excuse it.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:37 PM
Myself, I have never accepted help from anyone playing nethack. On the other hand, I've never gotten terribly far with it.
I read the tutorials and the source, and I still don't get very far, so.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 3:52 PM
City officials are now estimating that there's a better than %50 chance of a strike. And the weather is projected for "freezing rain" tomorrow.
Yo, transit workers' union: if you can arrange for the expiration of your contract to happen in, say, early June, you're likely to get more support from the public. Parisians actually get nostaglic over Metro strikes in years past; their anecdotes always feature pleasantly warm evenings. If you're shooting for expensive rancor, however, a rainy day a week and a half before Christmas is perfect.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 4:10 PM
The blackout bears out the theory in 82, I think, no?
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 4:57 PM
I got a ride! Woot!
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 5:08 PM
The local news was just on -- the anchor said something like "If you are taking the train or the busses into NYC tomorrow, you should pay attention because they will let you off at different places" -- Well! My ears pricked right up and my gaze was directed at the flickering screen, which proceeded to list the various means of public transit fro Jersey to NYC, with their respective termini, which were all the expected ones.
Asked Ellen, "How come they are saying those are different places? Those are the normal places." And she explained to me that they were telling people who drive into the city and don't independently know how to use public transit. Well I was pretty skeptical that anyone would not only drive into the city but also do so out of ignorance how to do otherwise. But that is the only reasonable explanation I guess for what the newscast was doing. Odd.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 5:41 PM
Oh, fucking brill. Mr. B. just called and is using the transit strike to beg off coming home tomorrow. Which means I have to get PK to Spanish school Saturday morning by nine on the bus after supervising my final exam tomorrow night until 9 pm.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 5:50 PM
The storm should contribute more to flying difficulties tomorrow, than should the strike.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 5:57 PM
Well, can you blame him?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 6:03 PM
It's not a question of blame, it's a question of kvetching. What about MY pain?
Men.
(JO, not flying, driving.)
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 6:28 PM
Hmphf. Your pain. Did you just have to spend the evening in a bar with (literally) 300 lawyers and 300 support staff being festive? Wearing plastic fedoras? Did you have to listen to a speech from the Managing Shareholder, flown up from Miami for the purpose, and think "Just because he's Cuban, do they have to introduce him with a burst of samba music? No, really they don't." Office parties suck big hairy balls.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 7:28 PM
No, instead I made gingerbread cookies with a five year old, took out the garbage, shoveled the steps and walk (which I'll need to do again tomorrow morning), fixed dinner, and rescheduled a meeting.
But you're right. I didn't have to wear a plastic fedora. In fact, I wore the same pyjamas I've been wearing all week.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 7:37 PM
Isn't samba Brazilian?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 7:39 PM
No, instead I made gingerbread cookies with a five year 0ld,
Cool, we did the gingerbread house thing the other weekend. My family has a traditional recipe (derived from a 1977 Ladies Home Journal) that takes about three full days start to finish. This was the first year I did it with my kids -- a friend whose kids play with Sally and Newt talked me into it, and then pointed and laughed at me for two consecutive weekends when she realized what a hassle it was.
Did I say that the damn office party had three open bars and not one of them had Irish whiskey?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 7:42 PM
Here's where I admit that I have no idea what, precisely, makes samba samba. They introduced him with a burst of cheesy Cuban music. I don't know what you call it.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 7:44 PM
Good night, all.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 7:44 PM
Way to take the fun out of a good nitpick, LB! I think you mean salsa. Samba is Brazilian, but I'm not sure I could identify any Brazilian music pre-bossa nova (think "Girl from Ipanema"). And, you know, even without Irish whiskey shouldn't you be able to get some fun out of three open bars?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 7:53 PM
"Office parties suck big hairy balls."
not if you enjoy making people feel awkward. And free booze. And it also helps if you bring a date nobody knows, so that you can excuse yourself from awkward conversations, having made them awkward yourself.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 8:03 PM
my roommate is into mambo music these days. a local bar has a mamba night, and my roommate has red mambo shoes. it's a positive development.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 8:05 PM
what is wrong with me? am I drunk? sadly no.
the local bar has samba night, and that is also the type of music my roommate enjoys, and his shoes are decidedly samba shoes.
mamba and mambo are not involved in this anecdote.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 8:07 PM
It is fortunate that you avoided the other possible combination.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 8:09 PM
perhaps if I had, I could have played the whole post off as some sort of clever word play, that wasn't funny, but also not indicative of an inability to write and think.
Now I've got to go fuck an oboe or something.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 8:13 PM
My backup comment was "You live with Maureen Dowd?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 8:24 PM
after seeing that picture, it's going to take a lot longer before I've finished with this oboe.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 12-15-05 8:28 PM
Way to take the fun out of a good nitpick, LB! I think you mean salsa.
Darn it, I do know the diference between samba and salsa -- I was just in an office-party induced stupor of hatred, which lowered my IQ a little past room temperature. Yes, salsa. Not samba.
And, you know, even without Irish whiskey shouldn't you be able to get some fun out of three open bars?
If I'm going to be miserable, I'd rather be sober. Drunk is only fun if I'm having fun independently.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 7:50 AM
Drunk is only fun if I'm having fun independently.
Words for the ages. The same applies in spades to marihuana-induced intoxication.
BTW was the party at a bar or catered in your office? If the former I'm amazed you were able to find a bar in NYC that does not stock Jameson -- it seems to me to be the most universally-available whiskey in the city, or possibly second to Jack Daniels. Allow me to recommend that you try drinking Old Grand-Dad sometime -- I used to only drink Jameson and Bushmill's, and Old Grand-Dad opened new horizons of whiskey flavor for me.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 7:58 AM
I'm amazed you were able to find a bar in NYC that does not stock Jameson
Table XII, on 56th. Looked as if it might have been a decent place if you could have gotten all the lawyers out of it, but no Irish.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:03 AM
None of the New Yorkers have seen fit to note that the strike has not happened as of yet; or anyway, it's limited to two privately-held bus lines, one of which operates an express bus from midtown to Queens which may be how Ogged was planning to get to the airport for all I know.
Posted by Nedra Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:05 AM
Any relation to Matt? Or an entirely independent Weiner?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:06 AM
I was looking for a link to explain that and found this article, in which Saiselgy writes:
We feel your pain, Wehttam.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:11 AM
Apparently they're doing a phased-in strike; some outer borough bus lines are striking, but those in the main part of the city won't be on strike unless a contract still isn't agreed to.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:12 AM
(For those who don't like to click links, Nedra Pickler was an AP reporter who liked to dot her campaign coverage with totally bizarre sentences of the form "Democrat X failed to mention Y.")
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:14 AM
Apparently, a wholesale strike has been put off until Tuesday. Bits and pieces may strike, but not the whole thing.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:27 AM
Have you noticed that none of the leftist Liberal blogs are covering the transit strike?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:35 AM
Oh, I'd forgotten her name. But I do remember her now that you mention it.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 8:49 AM
Eighth grade would have been hell for Miss Pickler even if her first name hadn't been Nedra, I think
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 9:26 AM
Eighth grade was a hard time for all of us...
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 9:35 AM
I shed bitter tears for her.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 9:36 AM
Have you noticed that none of the leftist Liberal blogs are covering the transit strike?
Is this your own personal Picklerism, SB?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 9:46 AM
re: 115
Oh, I think she did fine. I can hear it now:
"When you asked me where I liked my pickles, you neglected to mention that you are a crater-faced dickwad."
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 10:06 AM
Is this your own personal Picklerism, SB?
Just some content-free troublemaking.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 10:32 AM
"I have a peck of pickled peckers at home, dude. Are you volunteering?"
I don't think that Nedra was the type, though.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 12:00 PM
Holy wait, LB plays nethack? Totally crush-worthy.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 12-16-05 1:29 PM