Re: Food!

1

How will you watch your food a-cookin' if you are not allowed to use your oven? Cook everything on the stovetop? And isn't the All-Clad LTD 11-Inch Square Nonstick Grille Pan better suited to an open fire?

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2

But but but...non-stick is EVIL. EEEEE. VIL.

Poking arounds turns up the non-stick on sale! Finally! Thanks, guy!

ash

['Where's the garlic?']

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3

Hrmphf. Fifteen bucks would get you the same thing in cast iron.

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4

Expensive nonstick is just silly. The coating just comes off, and it's Teflon you don't want to heat it super-hot, which is the whole point of getting an expensive piece, anyway.

(I buy $10 nonstick skillets, use 'em for a year or two, then buy a new one.)

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5

Ogged, you're a yuppie: don't you have a self-cleaning oven?

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6

Hrmphf. Fifteen bucks would get you the same thing in cast iron.

Yup. Non-stick (after seasoning) and free of carcinogens!

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7

I didn't notice the Nonstick part when I was writing it out above -- I didn't know All-clad made pots with poisonous coatings, thought they were all about 3 layers of different metals with the one touching the food being stainless steel. That is what my All-clad pots are like -- did they branch out into plastics?

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8

As I recall, Teflon is thought to offgas potentially poisonous stuff only if heated to 450+ degrees (or so), and that the effect is more pronounced once the surface is scratched.

So, Teflon is fine for cooking omelets and such, but not so great for super-heating for searing or for placing in a hot oven. Someone who knows more about this, please feel free to explain that I'm completely wrong.

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9

Man, are we raining on Ogged's parade. But, I agree; the cast-iron version is superior. And they don't add that silly extra "e" to "grill."

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10

Teflon is thought to offgas potentially poisonous stuff only if heated to 450+ degrees (or so),

Isn't it terribly dangerous to parrots?

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11

Chopps, I've read the same. Here's a quote:

Though Teflon is nearly indestructible, it breaks down when exposed to high heat (572 degrees Fahrenheit and above). The fumes can cause flu-like symptoms in humans and kill a pet bird. The moral of this story: Don't broil in nonstick.

- Rebecca Smith Hurd

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12

You're right, Chopper; most non-stick pans are labelled to indicate that they're not to be placed in the oven for that reason.

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13

He 'asn't 'uffed Teflon! 'E's pining for the fjords!

Beautiful plumage...

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14

hmmm...

Apearantly Teflon is only meant to be used on low heat. The pans can release toxins...........

EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!HOOVER!!!!!!!! DIRT DEVIL!!!!!!!!!

thats why the general population has lost their fucking minds! Their mothers have been cooking with teflon on high heat and unwittingly poisoning their kids its not enough to kill them just enough to make them NUTS!

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15

A food related question:

Does anyone know of a crockpot that doesn't overheat (as my Rival 5quart does; burns things after two hours on low)?

Another product-related question:

Is there anywhere where one can buy one disc of a DVD set; like if one lost one set of episodes from the DVD set of a season?

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16

Anyway, I use a stovetop and oven for cooking steak. Stovetop is necessary for searing, but it's a lot easier to get the proper medium-rare doneness in a hot oven.

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17

I'm with the ill-educated immigrant: non-stick is good. The rest of you are simply snobs.

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18

'E's resting.

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19

The rest of you are simply snobs.

For preferring all-American cast iron to the suspeciously-french aluminum-clad tri-ply teflon pan? Enough of your doublespeak!

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20

Is there anywhere where one can buy one disc of a DVD set; like if one lost one set of episodes from the DVD set of a season?

On a bet, ebay.

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21

But see 4 (recommending non-stick, just cheaper non-stick.)

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22

yeah, yeah, "suspiciously"

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23

You could get Tom to hook you up with a BitTorent stream of the show in question. Also, people ocasionally put individual discs on eBay.

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24

15: ours doesn't. I'll look to check the model sometime soon.

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25

But see 4 (recommending non-stick, just cheaper non-stick.)

Nonstick has its place, and it's applications. Just not for cooking things at high-temperature.

I use my All-Clad triple-ply stainless steel straight-sided skillet for cooking steaks indoors--I get a better sear across the surface of the meat than with a grill pan. I think grill pans are silly--the purpose of a grill is to let the smoke interact with your food. No smoke=no point. (Some people swear by cast iron for this, but then you don't have the fine temperature control for making your pan sauce while the steak is resting.)

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26

Fuck. I can't believe I just type it's for its.

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27

Pet birds die at the drop of a hat. And besides, when teflon breaks down it just produces fluorine gas. Which is corrosive and poisonous and horrible, but not, I don't think, in a get-brain-cancer-twenty-years-later kind of way (although it's pretty hard to look into thanks to the fluoride toxicity kooks' poisoning of google).

Anyway, it's supposed to be pretty easy to smell fluorine gas before you get to dangerous levels of exposure. I'm with ash: $10 nonstick pans every couple of years. Cast iron is a beautiful dream, and I've got such a skillet. But it's a real pain in the ass to maintain and doesn't do as good a job as nonstick.

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28

Man, are we raining on Ogged's parade.

Nah. This was the predictable response, given the 17-million-rules-for-best-practices-in-the-kitchen ethos that's infected the bourgeoisie of late. I seriously considered cast iron, but I'm trying to travel light--which is to say that I don't want anything to weigh me down if I decide to pick up and move--so cast iron was out (and I'll probably go home and throw out a couple of other things tonight)--and everything I read about cast iron grill pans said they were harder to clean, and I'm trying to encourage myself to cook more, not assemble a show kitchen.

Finally, the reason to buy expensive stuff is to keep myself from feeling like a cheap bastard if I buy something inexpensive which turns out not to be good--I'd much rather feel like a sucker than a tightwad. Yeah, you heard me.

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29

While people are kind about it, I do that constantly. I find that I type rather as if my fingers were taking audio dictation from my brain -- homophones are always cropping up.

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30

My daughter's three pet birds look askance at me whenever I start cooking on teflon. Well-seasoned cast iron is the way to go.

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31

I recently discovered that there's a Le Creuset outlet store in Gilroy.

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32

29 to 26.

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33

I don't want anything to weigh me down if I decide to pick up and move--so cast iron was out

Christ, ogged, it doesn't weigh that much.

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34

everything I read about cast iron grill pans said they were harder to clean

I was going to say this was a filthy lie, but come to think of it the only cast iron I have is flat -- I can see how the grill shaping might be an issue.

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35

Cast iron *should* be fairly easy. I put that emphasis there because I'm having trouble with getting my cures to come out right. However, pans that have been properly cured before they come into my possession do well! I usually just clean it while it's hot or heat it, scrape with a spatula underwater, maybe a brille pad, and voila. AB recommended salt for cleaning, but didn't explain why.

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36

It's the principle, Ben.

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37

Ogged doesn't use a wussy moving van to move. He loads up his appartment on his back and hikes.

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38

I'm having trouble with getting my cures to come out right

See, people, it's about the eating--I don't want to mess with that crap.

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39

-I don't want to mess with that crap.

I like messing with that crap. Gets you in touch with the world. Didn't you read Heidegger?

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40

Plus, ogged, you could use your cast-iron pan as a weapon, or as a hammer when you need to nail things to the wall in your new apartment.

I don't own a cast-iron pan at the moment, but I think most of the trick with seasoning them is just to avoid harsh cleansers (and no dishwashers!)

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41

And you really don't need to do all that much to cure a cast iron pan, just cook a fair amount of fatty stuff in it (mmm, bacon) and don't use it for simmering tomato sauce (actually, once it's old enough you can even do this).

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42

Why all the attention to getting a correct cure? My skillets were seasoned once, when they came into my posession ~10 years ago. I just rubbed them with shortening and put them in the hot oven until they started to smoke. Since then I have not paid any attention to them except when I'm cooking. If I'm cooking and I notice metal showing, I put extra grease in. Seems to bring the glaze right back. Cleaning is as LB and Michael have attested, no big deal. None of this is rocket science. But it seems to me like if you were going to get a grill pan, you would want to get one that is oven safe. Which the product under discussion is patently not.

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43

You don't need to use salt on cast iron, but if you do, don't use water. If you use water and detergent, don't use salt. If you fuck up the seasoning (like by leaving the thing to soak, as my lazy ass occasionally does), just re-season. It ain't that hard.

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44

You don't need to use salt on cast iron, but if you do, don't use water. If you use water and detergent, don't use salt. If you fuck up the seasoning (like by leaving the thing to soak, as my lazy ass occasionally does), just re-season. It ain't that hard.

See, this is insanity. I just want to eat. Like I say, y'all have been infected.

Jeremy, the whole point is to avoid the oven.

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45

just re-season.

That's the best bit. You can totally wreck a cast-iron pan and then bring it back to life -- satisfying, in this disposable age of ours.

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46

I think it may have been my oven. Or that I was using nonhydrogenated shortening. Except, no, I did try canola oil once. Anyway, I always would up with a sticky, yellow film. Teh sux.

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47

And, if it gets too rusty, just hobble together an elecrolysis rig, and take that rust right off! By doing this, you can buy old rusy ones and save some cabbage.

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48

Oh, I've seen that. I think you must not have wiped the pan clean while it was still warm -- if you burn the shortening (like you're supposed to), but leave a thick layer on the pan to cool, you can get a sticky/almost rubbery coating.

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49

Michael, how well does it work when you cook up your moonshine?

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50

I think you must not have wiped the pan clean while it was still warm

see, I was unaware of this step.

Joe: terrific!

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51

I grew up in an entirely nonstick household. I just thought that people who didn't have nonstick pans had old pans or something – I never knew there were benefits to stickiness until I started watching America's Test Kitchen a few years ago. Mmmm...fond... Still, unless I'm making a pan sauce or something, I'm all for nonstick laziness.

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52

Growing up, all we had were usual pans, some copper, some cast-iron, some stainless steel. I thought non-stick pans were gadgets for people with money to waste on flaky pans until a couple of years ago. They're convenient, but I always end up scratching the coating on them anyway.

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53

Yeah, I can't handle the essentially disposable nature of them. I do like cooking with other people's and often think that I should just do the Chopper thing and treat them as disposables, but it just bothers me.

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54

Time for a sad sad story. I have a beautiful cast-iron Le Creuset skillet with, alas, a completely stupid non-stick layer. (It was a gift.) Predictably, a subtenant scratched the Teflon coating. What can be done? Anything?

It's been gathering dust under my dresser for two years. Should I give up and throw it out?

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55

Since I grew up with non-stick pans, I'm used to them and have never had a problem with coating scratching or flaking. The gay Indian roommate, who had not, scratched the hell out of them and I had to buy all new pans after he moved out. (But he did all of the cooking for the year we lived together so it was a fair trade.)

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56

Should I give up and throw it out?

Le Creuset is very good about replacing or repairing stuff, so it's worth taking it to a local LC store, or calling them up. The ex had a decades old stock pot that was in horrible shape, which they replaced with a new one, for no charge.

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57

Mmm...gay Indian food...

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58

Wait, so, people are cooking steaks indoors? On the stove?

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59

That's the idea, smashman.

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60

Ogged is completely right. I don't know how they'll feel about scratched nonstick (as opposed to, say, chipped enamel), but it's more than worth a try.

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61

Good point. Steaks should be broiled or grilled, if at all possible. You can pan sear them, but it's a lot harder to get them right.

Well-done is also wrong, but it's possible that's just personal taste.

Becks, I accept culpability; I was used to cookware that could hold its own in a fight. Nonstick is a delicate little flower.

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62

Ogged's ex knows all!

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63

I may actually be getting to the point that I prefer pan-cooked steak, rather than settling for it during Minnesota winters. I like to taste the meat, not the smoke.

I am with Cala on the doneness scale. THe nicer the piece of meat, the rarer it should be--organic, grass-fed, dry-aged and hung for three weeks= seared each side and eaten bloody.

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64

re 31, Gilroy is the garlic capital of the world.

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65

Eat steak, eat steak eat a big ol' steer

Eat steak, eat steak do we have one dear?

Eat beef, eat beef it's a mighty good food

It's a grade A meal when I'm in the mood.

Cowpokes'll come from a near and far

When you throw a few rib-eyes on the fire

Roberto Duran ate two before a fight

'Cause it gave a lot of mighty men a lot of mighty might

Eat steak, eat steak eat a big ol' steer

Eat steak, eat steak do we have one dear?

Eat beef, eat beef it's a mighty good food

It's a grade A meal when I'm in the mood.

Eat a cow, eat a cow 'cause it's good for you

Eat a cow, eat a cow it's the thing that goes "Mooooo"

Look at all the cows in the slaughterhouse yeard

Gotta hit'em in the head, gotta hit'em real hard

First you gotta clean'em then the butcher cuts'em up

Throws it on a scale throws an eyeball in a cup

Saw a big Brangus Steer standing right over there

So I rustled up a fire cooked him medium rare

Bar-B-Q'ed his brisket, a roasted his rump

Fed my dog that ol' Brangus Steer's hump

Eat steak, eat steak eat a big ol' steer

Eat steak, eat steak do we have one dear?

Eat beef, eat beef it's a mighty good food

It's a grade A meal when I'm in the mood.

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66

Anybody else really hungry for steak?

Maybe a ribeye au poivre, with a cognac and shallot pan sauce?

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67

I'd much rather feel like a sucker than a tightwad.

You can take the boy out of Iran,....

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68

I think a good steak needs no more than a little salt and freshly ground black pepper.

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69

Sounds good, Chopper.

I shouldn't have any, though, as in a few hours there'll be venison racks, braised shortribs, halibut prepared somehow in a nage currently being made, pureed celery root & rutabaga w/ brown butter, caesar salad, prosciutto & melons, another salad of some description, and a few other things I'm forgetting.

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70

Oh man. I'm coming to your house tonight.

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71

I think a good steak needs no more than a little salt and freshly ground black pepper.

Sure. That's good too.

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72

Tom has it correct in 28, re: problems with overheating your non-stick pans.

If teflon is heated to the point of outgassing fluorine gas, the fluorine will react with moisture in the air to form vapor phase HF, which is very very very bad for you.

It may even be a mutagen. See the materials safety data sheets:

here,here, and here.

So, don't burn your non-stick. But, also, you'd probably have to do a lot of that to generate enough fluorine to be too dangerous.

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73

I am threadslayer, mightykeys!

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