How do you judge whether he's following the requirements for the stroke? (I never understood that for any stroke- technically, fly is a variant of breast, right?)
That was freestyle, right? I always thought you could swim any stroke during a "freestyle" event; it just happens that what we know as freestyle is usually the fastest so that's what everyone chooses.
10: My guess is that he goes over to a ladder, and someone helps him out.
In the butterfly, you pretty much have to keep both legs kicking in unison, and technically, I guess, both arms must be in unison as well. You can turn your head to the side to breath.
You may not have noticed, but every thread is an open thread after about 20 comments now.
even though he has no arms
God, those Russians are sneaky bastards. They lose the Cold War arms race, become our "friends," then instantly start plotting to totally cream us in the armless race.
We need a new Reagan is what we need. He wouldn't stand for this shit.
Wow, that's awesome. Would someone swimming butterfly with no arms have any advantages over someone swimming it with arms? I always felt like my arms created a lot of drag when I swam fly but that could just be because I sucked at it.
I think the Paralympics would be pretty cool to watch. I saw Murderball last weekend – talk about some hard core guys.
Becks, if you watch, there's a difference in the pace of kicking. It's not so much that the arms create drag, but it takes a lot of effort to get the arms out of the water and that slows down the kicking pace. so... yeah
Ah, that's it, tweedle. I always felt like all of that vertical energy was inefficient compared to freestyle, backstroke, or breaststroke, where the energy was more focused on propelling you forward.
If you watch the really great butterfly swimmers, though, they don't go up and down much at all--their hips stay in pretty much the same plane throughout, but they do undulate. Needless to say, it's really effin hard to do properly.
One of the guys on my swim team in high school was a pretty damn good butterflier... he once got confused about what race he was in (thought it was the 200 IM when it was the 200 free) and so started out with butterfly and was winning for a few laps until he realized he was confused and stopped.
That can't be true, because the fastest crawl times are faster than the fastest butterfly times. Not by much, obviously, but also, it's just about impossible to swim fly at race pace for 1500 meters, like they do with the crawl.
Ah, well never mind then. Maybe whoever told me that meant for shorter distances, like 100m. Or my memory from 8 years ago is not quite so sharp as I had thought.
You can go faster swimming butterfly than freestyle, which mostly makes sense since it lets you bring your abs and lower back into play as well. But you can't do a flip turn, so in short course pool, crawl will be faster for anything over a 25, e.g. all competitive events. And you can't keep up maximal effort butterfly for very long - the 35 meters of actual swimming that has to happen in a 50-meter long course race is too far. Even so, most freestyle sprinters throw a couple of dolphin kicks in coming off of each wall these days, and they had to put a limit on how far you can dolphin kick underwater for backstroke and freestyle.
Oh, and if you are swimming in a medley relay or individual medley, the "anything goes" rules no longer apply, and you can't do anything that would qualify as backstroke, breaststroke, or butterfly.
I ask because Benjamin DeMott tells a story at the beginning of The Imperial Middle about the old, gentlemanly requirement at Amherst that all students pass a swimming test at the beginning of their first year. A black scholarship student from Philadelphia had never been in the water before--but was too intimidated to say so--and drowned.
I think there is a class aspect to it and a racial one as well. I had a black friend in high school who came from a very well-to-do family who didn't know how to swim. Her parents had never learned to swim growing up because the public pools were all whites-only. Even though things were now different and their economic status meant they had plenty of access to pools, they always felt uncomfortable around them because of what they symbolized so they never took my friend or her sisters when they were growing up. It was specific to swimming, too – they did plenty of other things that might typically be considered class-related, like going to the opera and ballet, and felt perfectly comfortable in those environments.
Thanks, Becks. This is actually a sore point. My step-sister (swimming enthusiast, married to the former UCLA coach) thought the suggestion ridiculous, and we got into an argument about it at my cousin's wedding. That was fun.
My school (which is not one of the schools mentioned above) also has a swimming requirement. It hadn't occurred to me before that this could be a "gentlemanly" thing, although it does make some sense given the kinds of schools that have it.
I could pass the basic swim test easily enough. They had dropped the requirement--except for people who wanted to participate in water sports. Even so, I decided to take a remedial class, because my stroked were so poor. I do a modified breast stroke to do the distance thing, and I can tread water okay, but my crawl sucks.
It was a gentlemanly school, but you could take free lessons --that is, no charge other than tuition.
Whatever the reason behind the swim test requirements, schools took them quite seriously. Dr. Mortimer J. Adler, who earned a PhD from Columbia University, wrote more than 30 books, taught at Columbia University, and was chairman of the board of editors of the Encyclopedia Britannica, was denied his bachelor's degree by Columbia in 1923 — despite his completing their four-year curriculum in three years and finishing at the top of his class — because he failed to pass the swimming test required for graduation. He was finally granted his degree sixty years later after informing Columbia that he had since learned how to swim and asking them to waive his disqualification.
Harvard dropped its swimming requirement, when they realized that it was unfair to the paraplegics they were admitting post ADA, or something like that.
you might be interested
No we are not. Pls to go back to not having sex.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 2:59 PM
Holy shit. And I thought herding cats was teh awesome. That kid wins.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:03 PM
He touches the wall with his head.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:05 PM
it's not even close.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:11 PM
How do you judge whether he's following the requirements for the stroke? (I never understood that for any stroke- technically, fly is a variant of breast, right?)
I suppose he has less drag than his competitors.
Posted by SP | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:20 PM
He's swimming in the paralympics, so I think requirements are quite a bit more relaxed.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:22 PM
That was freestyle, right? I always thought you could swim any stroke during a "freestyle" event; it just happens that what we know as freestyle is usually the fastest so that's what everyone chooses.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:25 PM
Here is the real test of the new long-thread trend. If a swimming thread can get to 100+ comments, a new Unfogged model has arrived.
Only 92 more.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:34 PM
No, it's butterfly, and yes, you can swim whatever you want in freestyle. I've seen people swim fly in freestyle races.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:34 PM
So how does the kid get out of the pool?
BTW, the 50m butterly??
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:36 PM
10: My guess is that he goes over to a ladder, and someone helps him out.
In the butterfly, you pretty much have to keep both legs kicking in unison, and technically, I guess, both arms must be in unison as well. You can turn your head to the side to breath.
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:38 PM
That picture is striking, but what causes the stripey background? (It looks like he's swimming in front of a waterfall.)
I love watching swimming, but I don't float. I don't know why i don't float, but it made swimming practically impossible.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:44 PM
If a swimming thread can get to 100+ comments
You may not have noticed, but every thread is an open thread after about 20 comments now.
even though he has no arms
God, those Russians are sneaky bastards. They lose the Cold War arms race, become our "friends," then instantly start plotting to totally cream us in the armless race.
We need a new Reagan is what we need. He wouldn't stand for this shit.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:51 PM
Apparently armsmasher struck again.
Posted by Ugh | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:53 PM
So how does the kid get out of the pool?
He goes deep, then vaults out like a dolphin. It's amazing.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 3:54 PM
Wow, that's awesome. Would someone swimming butterfly with no arms have any advantages over someone swimming it with arms? I always felt like my arms created a lot of drag when I swam fly but that could just be because I sucked at it.
I think the Paralympics would be pretty cool to watch. I saw Murderball last weekend – talk about some hard core guys.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 4:00 PM
I think whatever drag advantages one would gain would be offset by having no arms to pull with.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 4:02 PM
I know why I thought it might be freestyle. One of the other swimmers has only one arm.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 4:08 PM
Becks, if you watch, there's a difference in the pace of kicking. It's not so much that the arms create drag, but it takes a lot of effort to get the arms out of the water and that slows down the kicking pace. so... yeah
Posted by tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 4:08 PM
Ah, that's it, tweedle. I always felt like all of that vertical energy was inefficient compared to freestyle, backstroke, or breaststroke, where the energy was more focused on propelling you forward.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 4:14 PM
If you watch the really great butterfly swimmers, though, they don't go up and down much at all--their hips stay in pretty much the same plane throughout, but they do undulate. Needless to say, it's really effin hard to do properly.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 4:27 PM
One of the guys on my swim team in high school was a pretty damn good butterflier... he once got confused about what race he was in (thought it was the 200 IM when it was the 200 free) and so started out with butterfly and was winning for a few laps until he realized he was confused and stopped.
Posted by Matt #3 | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 4:42 PM
I've heard that if you're really good at it, fly is actually faster than freestyle. Damn hard to swim well, though.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 4:57 PM
That can't be true, because the fastest crawl times are faster than the fastest butterfly times. Not by much, obviously, but also, it's just about impossible to swim fly at race pace for 1500 meters, like they do with the crawl.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 5:04 PM
Ah, well never mind then. Maybe whoever told me that meant for shorter distances, like 100m. Or my memory from 8 years ago is not quite so sharp as I had thought.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 5:25 PM
12: Caustics.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 8:57 PM
You can go faster swimming butterfly than freestyle, which mostly makes sense since it lets you bring your abs and lower back into play as well. But you can't do a flip turn, so in short course pool, crawl will be faster for anything over a 25, e.g. all competitive events. And you can't keep up maximal effort butterfly for very long - the 35 meters of actual swimming that has to happen in a 50-meter long course race is too far. Even so, most freestyle sprinters throw a couple of dolphin kicks in coming off of each wall these days, and they had to put a limit on how far you can dolphin kick underwater for backstroke and freestyle.
Oh, and if you are swimming in a medley relay or individual medley, the "anything goes" rules no longer apply, and you can't do anything that would qualify as backstroke, breaststroke, or butterfly.
But yes, it is a thing of beauty.
Posted by Jake | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 9:31 PM
Swimming is super
gay.Posted by Isle of Toads | Link to this comment | 01-17-06 10:48 PM
Your Ben Franklin link reminded me (but I thought I'd post here): do you think knowing how to swim is class-related?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 2:46 PM
I ask because Benjamin DeMott tells a story at the beginning of The Imperial Middle about the old, gentlemanly requirement at Amherst that all students pass a swimming test at the beginning of their first year. A black scholarship student from Philadelphia had never been in the water before--but was too intimidated to say so--and drowned.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:06 PM
He didn't drown because he couldn't swim.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:10 PM
There's such a requirement at Chicago to this day.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:12 PM
UNC says they have a requirement, but I never took the swim test and they still gave me a diploma. I can swim, I'm just lazy and poorly organized.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:18 PM
And, I think, at Columbia. (They're willing to let grad students drown.)
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:18 PM
I think there is a class aspect to it and a racial one as well. I had a black friend in high school who came from a very well-to-do family who didn't know how to swim. Her parents had never learned to swim growing up because the public pools were all whites-only. Even though things were now different and their economic status meant they had plenty of access to pools, they always felt uncomfortable around them because of what they symbolized so they never took my friend or her sisters when they were growing up. It was specific to swimming, too – they did plenty of other things that might typically be considered class-related, like going to the opera and ballet, and felt perfectly comfortable in those environments.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:20 PM
Did you take it, Ben? Did you have to lie down afterwards?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:24 PM
I think there is ... a racial [aspect] as well.
Worth noting in this context that, by some reports, the African-American community has more discomfort with homosexuality than the broader country.
I had a black friend in high school
So much for the ogged/Becks coupling.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:27 PM
Thanks, Becks. This is actually a sore point. My step-sister (swimming enthusiast, married to the former UCLA coach) thought the suggestion ridiculous, and we got into an argument about it at my cousin's wedding. That was fun.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:29 PM
I took it, and I passed it, thankyouverymuch. I didn't have to lie down because I wasn't in the mood to exercise.
JM, what department are you in? I have entirely noncreepy reasons for asking this; you might know someone I know.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:31 PM
My school (which is not one of the schools mentioned above) also has a swimming requirement. It hadn't occurred to me before that this could be a "gentlemanly" thing, although it does make some sense given the kinds of schools that have it.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 3:53 PM
I could pass the basic swim test easily enough. They had dropped the requirement--except for people who wanted to participate in water sports. Even so, I decided to take a remedial class, because my stroked were so poor. I do a modified breast stroke to do the distance thing, and I can tread water okay, but my crawl sucks.
It was a gentlemanly school, but you could take free lessons --that is, no charge other than tuition.
Posted by Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 4:01 PM
my stroked were so poor
I'd bet your stroking alleviated the pain of their poverty, at least for the moment.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 4:15 PM
Claim: University implements mandatory swim tests at the behest of a wealthy benefactor whose own child had drowned.
Status: False.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 4:18 PM
From my link:
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 4:21 PM
That's awesome, eb.
I'm rather nervous about saying, Ben. I think I'd rather not.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 4:26 PM
Harvard dropped its swimming requirement, when they realized that it was unfair to the paraplegics they were admitting post ADA, or something like that.
COlgate apparently is a real stickler.
Posted by Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-19-06 4:32 PM