Re: Best Work of Your Career vs. Father of the Bride 2

1

Bill Murray's agent did have him voice Garfield, but my theory is that that was actually done by Murray's character from Lost in Translation.

horizontal rule
2

Martin collects modern art. I imagine that could get as bad as a drug habit.

Except for the $$, I don't know why he's bothering with the acting. It's obvious from interviews and articles that he doesn't give a damn and is much more into his writing. I really enjoyed Shopgirl (the book, not the movie) and a play he adapted Off-Broadway a few seasons back called The Underpants.

horizontal rule
3

See, I thought Shopgirl was gross. I've pretty much given up on SM.

horizontal rule
4

Love Steve Martin. Loved, all those years ago, Roxanne. I haven't seen Lost in Translation, but I did see Life Aquatic and Broken Flowers. Both blew. I still love Bill Murray. His best recent work is Rushmore.

horizontal rule
5

I saw Picasso at the Lapin Agile when it was on Broadway. It was frickin' wonderful. Here's my theory of Steve Martin psychology:

1. He hates himself.

2. He hates us.

3. When he hates himself more than he hates us, he does wonderful dark material like Spanish Prisoner.

4. When he hates us more than he hates himself, he does things like Cheaper by the Dozen.

5. Only when 1 and 2 are in balance (or abeyance) does he produce an LA Story or Picasso.

By the way, this is all totally bogus armchair analysis, and you should factor that into your reliance on it.

horizontal rule
6

Oooh...I forgot about The Spanish Prisoner. That was an excellent movie. I might have to go rent that.

horizontal rule
7

That movie where he was a dentist was pretty good.

horizontal rule
8

6, Yeah, there's no denying he's got talent, even genius. But sometimes, man, he's the poster child for Light Under Bushel.

horizontal rule
9

All of Me was one of the most impressive pieces of physical comedy I've ever seen.

horizontal rule
10

Bill Murray doesn't have an agent or a manager. He's very unusual in that regard. (I'm not kidding.)

horizontal rule
11

9, absolutely. And I'm still amused by Let's Get Small.

horizontal rule
12

10- then obviously Martin should hire Murray as *his* agent!

horizontal rule
13

9: Yay, All of Me

horizontal rule
14

Life Aquatic did not blow. It would be reasonable to describe it as underwhelming, but no worse. And I know some people who find it extremely funny. Has anyone seen the segment from Coffee & Cigarettes with Bill Murrary, the RZA, and the JZA? It's genius itself.

horizontal rule
15

Ack. Coffee and Cigarrettes. Teh unwatchably boring. The Bill Murray bit was the only thing that approached teh funny.

horizontal rule
16

I don't have a high opinion of it overall, but I thought the Tom Waits/Iggy Pop and the Jack & Meg White segments were both good as well.

horizontal rule
17

14: It had a few nice moments, but it was basically unwatchable. At best, it was wildly self-indulgent. The should have titled it, "Springtime for Hitler - The Sequel!"

horizontal rule
18

The Bill Murray bit was the only thing that approached teh funny.

You didn't like the last sequence, or the one with Steve Coogan and Alfred Molina?

horizontal rule
19

I didn't watch all of it. I couldn't. I skipped around to people I thought I would be interested in, so I watched Cate Blanchett; I think I would have watched Alfred Molina--what happened in the sequence?

horizontal rule
20

Holy shit. I thought that was just going to be a typical "Gary Busey is crazy"-link. I should have known to expect the unexpected from our Alameida.

horizontal rule
21

Maybe he has a crush on Hillary Duff?

Or maybe he has taste and has a crush on Bonnie Hunt like I do?

horizontal rule
22

I liked most of Coffee and Cigarettes, haven't seen Broken Flowers or Life Aquatic. But starring in Jim Jarmusch and Wes Anderson movies is at least an interesting way to suck, if it is a way to suck at all. If Steve Martin were to join Vincent Gallo's repertory cast it would be possible to respect him still.

Um, maybe.

horizontal rule
23

If Steve Martin were to join Vincent Gallo's repertory cast it would be possible to respect him still.

People who are committed to making Art and only Art are to be avoided. He took a few paycheck jobs. So what? He's still doing interesting work - or so say the people who like the book and play previously referenced.

As always, the lesson to be learned is, "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

horizontal rule
24

In Turkish Movie, Americans Kill Innocents

That sounds like a twisted Yakov Smirnoff joke.

horizontal rule
25

People who are committed to making Art and only Art are to be avoided.

On what grounds?

horizontal rule
26

Moreover, it's silly to argue that *anyone* who is making films for commercial distribution is taking a radical "art is inimical to commerce" position.

horizontal rule
27

On what grounds?

First principles! Besides, such people are likely to buy into Romantic fiddle-faddle concerning genius and Artists and are only paving the way for fascism.

horizontal rule
28

Bitch questions the possibility of synthetic judgments a priori. I refer her to the Critique of Pure Reason and request that this debate be held in abeyance until such time as she can demonstrate that she has studied it thoroughly.

horizontal rule
29

Whoa! Crazy Busey link!

Oddly, my first reaction upon reading it was "Wouldn't it be awesome if Stephen Baldwin was in that?!"

horizontal rule
30

I've read the goddamn Critique, Adam. Back when you were still in high school.

I agree with Ben's argument about Romantic fiddle-faddle, though. However, the fact that he makes that argument shows that SCMT's judgment is *not* a priori, but requires support.

horizontal rule
31

Really? Can you tell me about it? I've never read it.

horizontal rule
32

Do your homework, grad student.

horizontal rule
33

So, B, can you tell me how synthetic a priori cognitions from concepts are possible, and clear up some difficulty I've been having with the threefold synthesis in the A Transcendental Deduction?

horizontal rule
34

Just saw the new Pink Panther and Steve Martin as Clouseau is ...

.. oh I can't go on. I didn't see the movie. The previews alone put the fear in me. Same WTF reaction.

Odd, I can envision Kevin Kline (who is in the flick) pulling it off.

horizontal rule
35

Someday, God willing, they will have (a) a dark-skinned black woman as the love interest in a (b) non-shitty movie.

horizontal rule
36

Maybe these guys who act in unfunny funny movies THINK they're going to to be funny before they start, and they're as disappointed as we are.

Bill Murray may pick better movies than Steve Martin just because he's luckier.

horizontal rule
37

#33: No.

Bill Murray may pick better movies than Steve Martin because he is smarter and more talented.

horizontal rule
38

Did Steve Martin's hair turn white when he was 15 or what?

horizontal rule
39

Bill Murray doesn't write funny articles for The New Yorker like Steve Martin does, so I don't know about smarter.

horizontal rule
40

Steve Martin writes *funny* articles for the New Yorker? Huh.

horizontal rule
41

Or about more talented.

horizontal rule
42

I laugh when I read Steve Martin's pieces in The New Yorker, so I assume they're funny.

horizontal rule
43

That's "GZA", white boy

horizontal rule
44

Steve Martin's hair turned white when his pet goldfish died.

horizontal rule
45

Hey anybody seen that NY Times article today where the Missouri HS Drama Club performs "Grease" causing community unrest, and then the superintendent cancels their planned springtime performance of "The Crucible"? One of the plays they were considering for next year, which they have now withdrawn as potentially too controversial (it gets to where you can't even honestly use scare quotes anymore), is "Little Shop of Horrors". It emerges in the article, that "Grease" and "The Crucible" are respectively the second-most frequently performed musical and second-most frequently performed drama among HS Drama Clubs nationwide -- the most frequently performed are "Seussical" and "A Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy Dream", which the club in question is now producing in lieue of "The Crucible" -- note that it features our own T(itan)ia and B(ottom) Wolfson. Laffs galore.

horizontal rule
46

45. Canceling the Crucible. The story wrote itself.

Replacing Grease with Shakespeare's homage to bestiality, evil magic, and deviant sexuality: priceless.

BTW, are any movie versions of MND worth viewing?

horizontal rule
47

"Seussical" is the most frequently performed musical? How is that possible?

horizontal rule
48

46 -- No, no, they replaced The Crucible with Shakespeare's homage to etc.

47 -- I had the same reaction. I think this is probably just a thing of the moment, soon it will be Oklahoma! or whatever again.

horizontal rule
49

I guess what really gets to me is to compare the two most frequently performed "dramas", "Crucible" and "MSND", both fine plays, with the two mos frequently performed musicals, which don't seem to me to stand out as great works in the same way. Note: I have not seen "Seussical" so am talking a bit out my ass. But "Grease" I know, and it is not a great musical.

horizontal rule
50

It's hard to make a musical great, in the same way that a play can be. At least musicals that a high school would perform.

horizontal rule
51

Hi! (That's a link; maybe it's clearer on your browser than mine that that is so.)

As it happens, Life Aquatic is sitting in my computer DVD drive at the moment, where I'm not watching it yet because I'm reading the stupid internets. (Will make manly-type manful effort to Change This momentarily.)

"But "Grease" I know, and it is not a great musical."

It is, however, filthy and obscene.

Most recent Wes Anderson post here. (Had a few more comments in my comments; may yet sometime do an obsessively long post on the film, and how badly about half the reviewers Didn't Get It (although many of the other half did, thankfully), or I may not; who knows?; not me; but there's an awful lot I can say.)

Bottle Rocket comes up on my Netflix queue about 4 down. I'd have seen it sooner, except for the whole "only getting the Netflix subscription donation" thing a couple of of months ago.

Of course, the last time I was able to stop obsessive internets reading long enough to watch an entire movie was... I forget. Some weeks ago. It took me more than a week to finally do the neo-Battlestar Galactica 2.0 disks, although I did finally finish those a couple of nights ago.

Loved Rushmore when I saw it a couple of years ago; not as much as RT, but still lots.

horizontal rule
52

The Kevin Kline Midsummer Night's Dream is worth seeing, if only because Kline manages to turn in a good performance in everything, even rubbish.

horizontal rule
53

From Gary's first link:

"It looks like it will come to this: First they invade Iraq, then maybe Iran and Syria. Eventually, Turkey. So rather than waiting for it, I'd rather go and fight now in Iraq," Oflaz said.

Wow, doesn't this sound just like Sully's correspondent?

horizontal rule
54

As I have mentioned, we did The Search For Signs of Intelligent Life In The Universe as my high school production. Makes Grease look like The Music Man.

horizontal rule
55

Don't look now, but the "Innocence" comments are about to send the blog into a Hobbesian state of nature.

horizontal rule
56

Not quite! Rather than all against all, it'll just be bloggers against each other, and devil take the commenters.

horizontal rule
57

Also, I have undone my foolish action of not long ago and foreswear further participation in the thread.

horizontal rule
58

We all pledge that, Wolfson, and we all backslide. In the end, none can resist innocence.

horizontal rule
59

#33--I've also read the first Critique and not long ago, which is why I suggest that if you have any acquaintence with ObWi's hilzoy, you talk with her about Kant: she's quite the apostle.

horizontal rule
60

Really, who hasn't read the first Critique? It's old hat. These days, An Attempt at a Critique of All Revelation is in.

horizontal rule
61

Suppose you're unlikely to read any of the Critiques in the next few years, but want to know more about Kant. What would you read?

horizontal rule
62

What do you want to know?

horizontal rule
63

Not as if I'm at all acquainted with the secondary literature, except as occasionally mentioned in classes.

horizontal rule
64

Well, I read that Roger Scruton Past Masters book a few weeks ago, so I guess that's an overview, but I'm curious about Kant's thought as it relates to history, geography, politics. Or something like that.

horizontal rule
65

Maybe Towards Perpetual Peace? There's a volume of the Cambridge edition of Kant's works called Anthropology, History, and Education.

horizontal rule
66

What would you read?

The Logic seminars? (It's next on my Kant reading list.)

horizontal rule
67

No, not logic! I'll look into Perpetual Peace and that Cambridge volume sounds pretty good.

horizontal rule
68

Kant's logic isn't exactly like modern logic, eb.

horizontal rule
69

Steve Martin has definitely participated in the crap. But I still Love. Him. Super funny, charming enough, richer and smarter than me. Mmm perfect man for me.

Also: The Pleasure of My Company is maybe even a better novella than Shopgirl. At the least, it's about twenty times funnier. Agoraphobic guy with curb issues and whatnot.

horizontal rule
70

68: I'm sure it's not, but I had a flashback to the one logic class I took. Although I guess the class wasn't all bad: the TA had quite a distinctive manner of speaking. Once, when someone couldn't make out what he'd written on the board, rather than say something like "sorry about my bad handwriting" he said: "My penmanship is abysmal."

horizontal rule
71

Girl27!

horizontal rule
72

The latest shocker is that Kant may actually have had a sex life.

horizontal rule
73

Emerson, being old and having a beard does not make you Kant.

horizontal rule
74

eb, have you read the Grounding/work for the Metaphysics of Morals? It's much shorter than the Critiques, contains some of his best-known ideas (like the categorical imperative), and has some comprehensible passages. We are told to avoid the Ellington translation.

horizontal rule
75

Wow, he did translations of german metaphysics in addition to the big-band stuff? A true polymath.

horizontal rule
76

SCMT, I don't think Kant had a beard. In fact I'm pretty sure he was unmarried.

horizontal rule
77

And not celibate, apparently.

horizontal rule
78

I can't decide which is better, logic or music. Or peanut butter. Wait, avocado! If you put the four of them right next to each other, you could (at your discretion) either rule the world or have an unorthodox snack.

But first you would have to find the material, lumpiform embodiments of logic and music; whose whereabouts, according to family legend, are recorded in code in the margins of the National Treasure shooting script.

horizontal rule
79

Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics is a good introduction to Kant. I think. So I was told, and it seemed to be, iirc.

horizontal rule
80

I don't know whether this web page is up to date, but I'm sure her book on "cosmopolitanism and patriotism in late 18th-century German thought" will focus heavily on Kant.

horizontal rule
81

If figures that the work whose title looks most like what I'm looking for is written in German (from w/d's link). I'll look into the Grounding/work or Prolegomena. Thanks for all the suggestions.

horizontal rule
82

coffee and cigarettes is a great movie! hurray for coffee and cigarettes! "The best thing about quitting is that you can have one once in a while." Broken Flowers and Lost in Translation: also excellent!

horizontal rule
83

Never thought I would see a thread with Steve Martin and Kant duking it out over which is the main topic, but here we are.

I'm totally talking out my ass, but I wonder if Steve Martin is doing the crap he is doing just to pay the bills and stay in the media eye in the hopes that he can do what he really wants to do, which is write. I wonder if he can't get produced what he wants so he does what he can.

Or maybe he's turned into a lamo, which would be too bad cuz once, he ruled.

horizontal rule