Re: I have retired from the field of battle in order to watch more anime

1

Ignatiusing!

I bet he felt soiled.

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2

"Deeply weird" -- hearing an anime fan complain about excessive toon nudity.

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3

Related: Dsquared's Shorter Steven Den Beste series was really, really funny.

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4

wow. i'm impressed at someone who can be morally offensive on such widely divergent topics.

but for sheer entertainment value, i think its hard to beat jeff goldstein. his combination of triumphant righteousness, ad hominem attacks and allegations of treason have all been done elsewhere, but i've never seen anyone else pull it off while threatening (apparently seriously) to fight anyone who disagrees with him, at which point he will slap them in the face with his cock. the russian judge gives it a 10.

the degree of difficulty pretending to be off-put by anime is so much lower.

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5

oooh--FL, he tryna out you! and you were hardly even mean!

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6

That is so not cool.

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7

Fucking Stephen Den Beste.

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8

is almost certainly a terrible idea.

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9

What a fucker.

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10

5: Not terribly successfully, though. AFAIK, that's the wrong school.

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11

Sorry, shouldn't have posted that last. I have no offline knowledge, and anyone who does shouldn't mention it.

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12

We owe T/om Hil/de and Luap Nangied a serious apology.

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13

SdB has always been a pathetic little man.

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14

Sounds like I missed something eventful. Ironically, lunch is the time when I'm least likely to be reading the site.

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15

What a fucking asshole. Jeebus. People who violate the most basic norm of the blogosphere should be shunned. It is entirely detrimental to the culture, and is the one thing most likely to kill the whole thing. If there's one thing the Left & the Right ought to agree on, it's this. I'm always stunned that there are people whose sense of shame is so little developed that they resort to this.

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16

apo, that link explains a lot.

massive quantities of amphetamines shed a whole new light on his writing style. if i had the equivalent, perhaps i could even read them.

#13 gets it exactly right.

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17

"them" s/b "him."

alas, sweet light, it fades. i take pride that my commenting has brought what little strength i could offer to carry the load through these dark times. as our nation suffers war, and the mineshaft struggles through another day with a mexican, my health and grammar are failing. i have given all i can. i will always remain proud of my part in saving all of civilization. if you'll excuse me, i'm going to watch horse pr0n.

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18

I see no attempted outings here.

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19

What.

A.

Fucking.

Asshole.

I wish I were pseudonymous so he could go after me.

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20

Thinking about it for half a second, we should probably delete 5 on, so provosts etc. who may read this site won't know where to look for SdB's attempted outing. With luck, no provosts etc. read SdB's site. Any who do can won't be able to take action, since they surely won't want that known.

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21

Agree with 20.

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22

Ah. What a shit.

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23

Are we about to get a whole bunch of "deleted to protect pseudonymity"?

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24

I hope so. Whatever small thing we can do.

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25

Whatever. Just fucking delete what needs to be deleted.

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26

Quite possibly. I wouldn't let it worry you none though.

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27

Yes, if the IP is really informative, I agree with 20, but if not, I'd say leave it up as testimony to SdB's utter assholishness.

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28

Just fucking delete what needs to be deleted.

Excellent idea. Let's start with Instapundit. (The site, not the man against whom I bear no grudge.)

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29

I say delete it anyway. If you don't delete it now, when you do delete it, that will be an admission that the IP is informative.

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30

29: I expect you're a lot better at chess than I am.

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31

Remove this post and entire thread.

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32

I have no opposition to this kind of deletion.

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33

29 -- that doesn't quite make sense to me. The statement "the IP is informative" is either true or false; its truth-value will not change over time. So if mcmc's advice of 27 is taken and the comments not deleted because the IP is not informative, then why reverse later on and delete them?

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34

31 -- but then the terrorists will have won. (Yeah, probably should go 'head and kill it. And don't mess with that SdB, he's got a cock on him the size of a horse!)

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35

33, if a different post or comment thread is later deleted, it would confirm the correctness of the information referenced in that thread or post, not the information referenced in this one.

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36

he's got a cock on him

Doubtful.

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37

Ok... well that makes some sense I guess.

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38

35 gets it exactly right.

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39

Poor widdle SdB. Someone made fun of his Si-chan.

What a tool.

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40

Dump it all. Now.

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41

Maybe we should stop commenting on this post, and keeping it at the top of the sidebar. Maybe a poster could put up another post, too?

Look, AFAIK, none of this matters, b/c the information is inaccurate. But I'd feel better if there were less drawing the eye to this post.

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42

Why would I delete this post and thread?

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43

Because "Matt Weiner" outed himself accidentally in 19.

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44

[[Every time it happens it bothers me, and I avert my eyes.]]

Sure you do, Stevie. Sure you do.

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45

43: On the other hand, Wolfson's pseudonym, like hs prose, remains impenetrable.

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46

ATM.

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47

I think it's pretty silly to watch a medium that has a bunch of sexualized pictures of women but to avert your eyes only when there's cartoon nudity. Why is cartoon cleavage okay to look at?

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48

Because the cartoon women chose to dress like that? On the other hand, when cartoon nudity is involved, it's because SdB is impinging on their cartoon privacy. (It would be completely different, of course, if these were cartoon strippers.)

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49

Will someone post a brief and unrevealing explanation of this brouhaha?

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50

Nothing's been deleted -- you know everything anyone else does.

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51

This kerfuffle makes me wonder how many social or political disputes are really grown-up versions of "But you didn't play by the RULES!" Not in the whiny sense, but in the very real sense that the social contract for how we're going to interact with each other got violated.

In my experience, the "rules" for online interaction haven't changed much since 1991 (and that makes me a spring chicken -- where's Gary Farber?). Who talks, how often, when you delurk, how a new person is incorporated, how the community responds to outsiders and threats...all very well established. When somebody violates those rules, it's a betrayal.

We act as though everyone shares our rules and agrees with them, but that's only sometimes the case. Disagreements over rules can lead to a temper tantrum (a la the so-called mainstream media objecting to the emergence of web-based media), or international political disputes (Google and Yahoo go to China). In some cases (same-sex marriage) they lead to deep social schisms.

My point: What's the difference between a set of rules that really just a set of norms for a community (Unfogged -- must be able to tolerate freewheeling sexual joking), and a set of rules that it really IS desirable for everyone to live by (...? nominations welcome).

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52

The next song on Unfogged radio is by request, and is dedicated to Steven Den Beste.

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53

Because "Matt Weiner" outed himself accidentally in 19.

My weiner outs itself accidentally sometimes too. Which is unfortunate, because it's supposed to be a secret.

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54

My weiner outs itself accidentally

My bologna has a first name.

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55

Oh yeah, what's it called?

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56

Oscar, of course, silly.

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57

Heh-indeedy. What an exciting day *this* is turning out to be.

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58

Heh-indeedy. What an exciting day *this* is turning out to be.

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59

Heh-indeedy. What an exciting day *this* is turning out to be.

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60

Heh-indeedy. What an exciting day *this* is turning out to be.

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61

Well done, but the site now appears to be broken. The recent comment sidebar certainly is.

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62

Very interesting.

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63

[This comment intentionally left blank.]

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64

Does this thread actually exist?

I want to read people making fun of den Beste, and I'm being denied.

Ogged, why hast thou forsaken us?

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65

The guy's gone insane. Now it's all about how lefties are wimps, because, you know, when Leiter wanted out Non-Volokh, the right said, Go ahead!

Dude, we just think you're nuts for liking hentai and pretending you don't look at the weird sex.

We heart you, Labs.

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66

that cowardice thing is kinda odd. as is his explanation that he had a post back in the day explaining his personal policy on pseudonymy, so fair warning and such. or so he claims, anyway. i lack the cheap trucker speed necessary to finish and/or comprehend his posts.

maybe he just needs a nice polite e-mail explaining unfogged's longstanding policy (written on the bathroom stall wall in the mineshaft, available for all) explaining that attempts to out will be met w/ massive retaliation.

pistols at dawn. not swords, though. i don't know much about anime, but i remember some video game where the guy had a sword bigger than he was. all the better to protect the virtues of the modestly clad females, no doubt, lest they be de-robed, and force us to avert our gaze.

i think it need not even be asked wwjgd (what would jeff goldstein do).

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67

in semi-seriousness, was there ever a consensus reached back in the bad old days of bp/hd's banning / law/suit guy thing as to what wrong with the internets?

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68

I am not sure whether this was a done thing to do, but I availed myself of d-squared's swearing board.

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69

Just follow the link to the anime site if you want to know what is going on.

The persecution of the Bitch quietly faded away, from my understanding.

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70

What. A. Fucking. Tool.

The persecution of me faded away when the whiny pussy hassling me found out I was ready and willing to call his bluff.

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71

[redacted]

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72

Yes, a tool with a highly developed martyr complex and staggering delusions of grandeur. It's a lovely combination.

Again, a pathetic little man. Few things in this world are more risible than a profoundly silly person who fancies himself a serious thinker.

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73

I haven't emailed him either. He isn't worth the keystrokes. I make no attempts at anonymity, so he can feel free to out me, too.

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74

Hey Demo-Fags,

Guess you didn't get the word yet: YOUR PARTY IS RAPIDLY BECOMING EXTINCT.

How does it feel to not control any branch of the Federal Government?

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75

Another fine example of the powerful intellect and subtle wit we face across the aisle. Perhaps we should give up.

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76

I am utterly convinced by 74. How could I have been so confused?

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77

Don't fall for it, Apo, it's just Labs in Groucho glasses.

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78

Demofages was one of the greatest orators.

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79

Demo-Fags, Darling Demo-Fags,

Thank you for all the butthole shags—

Thank you! I'll be here all week.

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80

This demo fag is not for sale, and may not be transferred to another owner.

Production model fags are available in stores near you.

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81

Things the poster of 74, being composed of a majority of Americans, believes today (.pdf):

I do not approve of the job President Bush is doing, things are going badly in Iraq, removing Saddam Hussein wasn't worth the cost, we should have stayed out of Iraq in the first place, Bush cares about him either not much or not at all, I have an unfavorable view of President Bush, the President does not have the legal authority to authorize wiretaps without a warrant in order to fight terrorism, the administration is too secretive, I do not approve of the job congress is doing.

Wow, The Majority, you sound like some kind of crazy leftist moonbat to me.

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82

Little does Steven den Beste know, we (in our capacities as leftists) do most of our sincerest cowering on special private cower-only blogs.

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83

71: I feel like I am in a zombie or vampire movie SdB had fallen off my radar. A world class jerk and loser, but not without resources. Ya know, I sometimes fear Farber, with his accumulated Usenet experience and skills.

But. Cracking wise about pedophilia with a famous wing-nut jerk was a dangerous thing to do. I am so very sorry the post was written.

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84

I am a Demophage. Fear me, for you are all quite plump.

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85

A Demophage is quite contagious, as it rapidly seizes control of the victim's cells and turns them into little replication factories.

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86

Did the cute little anime girls have cute little anime vagendas? No wonder SDB is uneasy.

My real name is not John Emerson. I took my pseudonym from Dred Scott's owner. SDB will never find me!

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87

re 69: you cunt, Weiner. That was a Monday swearing board and your bloody Tuesday swearing has fucked it right up.

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88

I would plead time difference, except I think it goes the other way.

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89

73: apostropher, your bathroom tile rocks

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90

Thanks. The mortar is kind of a pain to clean, but worth it, all in all.

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91

Apostropher:

Does the Munch birdhouse have any practical use, or is it just for decoration?

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92

You can keep your weed in there.

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93

91: Purely decorative.

92: I'd just end up dropping it in the toilet by accident.

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94

I didn't know SDB was writing at RedState now, too. Lord, has that place become The League of Angry Ranters.

I remember when SDB was on Metafilter. Back then he seemed mostly sane, only occasionally exhibiting the DenBestian traits that would eventually lead to classics works such as Anglo Women are an endangered species.

Did the cute little anime girls have cute little anime vagendas?

Nah. Probably octopus tentacles or massive horse-cocks.

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95

Anglo Women are an endangered species

Jesus H. Christ. I encourage everybody to copy the link there and paste it into your browser. See, his coworkers just treat him like a "male person," while strippers he pays for lap dances treat him like a man. I refer you to comment 72.

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96

He disabled incoming links from here and he calls us cowards? ah, fuck it.

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97

Actually that was by far the best-written piece I've seen from him, and it made me feel kind of sorry for him, in a patriarchy hurts men too kind of way.

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98

Linking issues! Actually that's Amanda's fault, IMO. Also, this is a weird redirect.

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99

96-

Although he is complaining about nasty emails coming from here. If anyone reading is doing that, quit it, wouldja? Rude comments is one thing, rude emails is quite another and I don't like being associated with it.

And that was a sad essay. Poor guy.

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100

97: No need to feel sorry for him, Matt; he's got self-pity to spare.

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101

I read the Anglo Women piece with a combination of sympathy for his loneliness, amusement at his rhetorical excess--"It's normal and healthy for a man to love a woman. There's nothing wrong with it. It's not a sin. It's a beautiful thing"--a degree of respect for his willingness to confess publicly to being so lonely, and an intense desire to beat him soundly with a clue x 4 for various sins of c/omission.

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102

with a clue x 4

Excellent -- is this your own coinage? That essay just makes me cringe. I think I saw it a few years ago when it was published, but had forgotten. Such a massive amount of work to justify his going to a strip club. Earth to Steve: you don't need to justify it, just repress it.

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103

I sent a perfectly polite email.

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104

But some day I will write a short story titled "Stephen Den Beste and James Lileks compare prices at Target in Heaven" and it will be the greatest thing ever written.

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105

is this your own coinage?

It isn't, but I can't remember where I heard it first.

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106

it will be the greatest thing ever written.

Let it be done.

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107

"rude" probably implies "disagreed with me politely".

Tool. Tool. Toolity Tool. "I watch hentai for the articles" is as ludicrous as "But I didn't inhale."

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108

103, 107: Oh, I doubt what he was complaining about was anything much, I'd just like anyone emailing to (1) think if there's really any point to it (to which the answer is almost certainly no) and (2) be civil if you really must email (again, probably pointless) so as not to make us all look bad.

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109

I thought there might be some point because he used to read my old blog.

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110

I haven't e-mailed him because I think it's sort of pointless to feed a troll while he's watching hentai for the articles.

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111

Yeah, it's pretty clear by now that whatever damage will occur has been done, that it's not so certain he could make things better or worse, and so on. So don't bother.

I totally appreciate the sentiment and concern, I should say-- I just think there's no point.

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112

Should the need ever arise, count me in as being willing to stand up and say, "I am Spartacus Fontana Labs!"

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113

"I am Fontana Labs' Alter Ego!"

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114

I obviously could not resist sticking my oar in and have made a few remarks at my own blog:

here it is

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115

FL's post could be interpreted as accusing SdB of being a pedofile. I can see why he is pissed. Not that he isn't otherwise an asshole.

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116

SdB's own posts pretty much accuse him of being a pedophile, at least as much as Labs' did.

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117

As a fine philosopher once said, "Direct quotation is rarely charitable."

(And actually I think there's a big diff between pedophilia and just looking at cartoons of naked underage girls. No one was harmed in the making of this film etc. But still, SdB's swinging from his own rope.)

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118

That den Beste initialism is way too close to my own. Reading it gives me a weird feeling, like I might have rabies. Can't we call him something else? I'm drawing a blank, but "Fucker" would do in a pinch.

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119

Direct quotation is always fair game, but I am taking the "unreliable narrator" comment to mean that FL thinks SdB is lying about not being attracted to underage cartoon nudity.

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120

From Matt's link—

"There is a rainbow in my heart."

Ned Markosian before starting his comments on Dean Zimmerman's paper, and right after telling us that he'd just had his first 3 cups of caffeinated coffee in a long long time.

Ned Markosian, I think I love you.

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121

119: He's watching this stuff for fun, and devotes a blog to it -- accusing him of enjoying it seems fairly innocuous.

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122

What LB said. We can't follow the link anymore, wivvout getting that anime "go away" sign, but as I remember he doesn't stop with the first DVD. It seems fair to infer that his disgust isn't overwhelming.

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123

You can copy the link and paste it in your browser. Easy enough.

Take him at his own words. In reviewing something called G-On Riders: "Oh, and the girls are nicely bouncy, and Yuki loses her panties in the first episode. (Actually, she loses all her clothes, but she gets all the rest of them back.) Yuki looks a lot like CBD May, except that the hair is shorter and she wears a seifuku instead of a maid uniform."

I believe Yuki is this character. We report, you decide.

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124

Or to use the canonical form...

Shorter Steven den Beste: fapfapfapfap.

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125

I think Steve's a one-fap kind of guy.

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126

Anime girls, rather like strippers, know how to act like women rather than female persons.

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127

You can copy the link and paste it in your browser.

na na na na na I can't hear you I can't follow the link na na na na na I can't hear you...

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128

re:118

Can't we call him something else?

d-squared gets it exactly right by referring to him as "shorter." that has to hurt.

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129

For what it's worth, I wasn't intending to suggest that he's a pedophile. I *was* intending to suggest that he protests a bit much about that-- "I swear, I look away every time! and then I watch it again!" I mean, honestly, if that doesn't strike you as worthy of some lighthearted mockery, you're not the comment section I know and love.

Imagine my delight when I saw that bit Apo posted.

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130

also, only slightly off-topic...

japan: wtf?

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131

Gimme a break. This is a blog that ask the question, "Can we start perving on Hermione, yet?" (By the way....) How serious could any accusation of pedophilia have been? How seriously would/could any reasonable person treat it? Welcome to the Intarweb. SdB needs grow the fuck up.

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132

that is, "japan" s/b "anime"...but still.

i feel like there must be some devastating feminist blog link that would explain it all to me.

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133

hermione gets it exactly right.

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134

That den Beste initialism [SdB] is way too close to my own. Reading it gives me a weird feeling, like I might have rabies.

I hear you, SB. Recent discussions of the UAE ports deal in other threads have sometimes left me wondering whether I've bifurcated off another personality without realizing it.

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135

UAE is of course Ur Alter Ego, not Mine.

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136

I thought it stood for the Union of Alter Egos, living in an alter world, locked in a perpetual alter war with the alter ids.

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137

Recently excavated cuneiform tablets have revealed that Ur Alter Ego was, in fact, the proto-blogger, having scratched such posts as "Code of Hammurabi: Leap forward for civilization or offense against Ishtar?" and "I have a feeling there's a continent I hate for its freedom, but I can't quite conceive of it yet." If we scaled all blogging history since the life of UAE to one day, all Usenet would be but 6 minutes on that clock.

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138

Thanks for the giggles, guys.

If I were still 20 years old, I'd take your "wisdom" seriously, but I grew up, left college, and pull my own weight in this world.

(Written anonymously, because I already deal with 100+ pieces of spam a day. I don't need any more from folks with no sense of proportion.)

Have a nice day.

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139

you pull your own what?

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140

For what it's worth, I wasn't intending to suggest that he's a pedophile.

Oh, never could have taken you that way. "Unreliable narrator" is just a fancy way of calling bullshit, after all.

It's not even just anime. At the risk of sounding farberesque, anime's just a medium, and it's a medium used in lots of genres and subgenres. And I could see someone honestly averting their eyes from the nudity in Ranma 1/2 or Ghost in the Shell because it's a rather minor part, and kind of unexpected in a cartoon.

But this is friggin' hentai. Cartoon porn based on an XXX cartoon. It's like watching a porn movie but insisting that you're not watching for the sex, but for the complicated plots. Or insisting that Playboy was the only magazine you could find.

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141

Den Beste is the grouchy old man of blogging. He's standing in his front yard waving a rake, yelling "You damn Unfogged kids, keep off my lawn!"

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142

Nonono, Emerson is the grouchy old man of blogging. Den Beste is the dirty old man of blogging. (Well Emerson might give him some competition for that title too.)

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143

Hey, at least Emerson is fucking real animals and not cartoon ones.

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144

mcmanus is the grouchy old man of blogging. Emerson is the crazy old man of blogging. Den Beste is an asshole.

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145

Fuck. That's wrong. bob's crazy, Emerson's grouch. Fuck.

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146
with a clue x 4

Excellent -- is this your own coinage?

No. It's a standard old Usenetism. Alternatively, we could beat you with a cluestick for not knowing this, drown you in the clue pool, regret your clueostomy, deduce you had a cluectomy, note that you wouldn't know a clue if you tripped over a mountain of them, etc., etc., etc. horizontal rule