Well, really, you can use your own soap even without using a straight razor. I've talked to my dad about this, and he claims that a safety razor is preferable, despite the coolness of a straight razor, because shaving oneself with a straight razor is very difficult: if you're right handed, there's no good way to get the right side of your face, especially under your cheekbone (mutatis mutandis for lefties). Straight razors are really for other people to shave you with. Safety razors, though, no prob.
I confess that I have long coveted either a straight or classy safety razor, and already own a badger brush (though not of top-quality bristles). No soap, though, but it doesn't really matter since I haven't been clean-shaven in a while anyway.
This has been commented on before -- I think it's a font where zero is indistinguishable from the letter 'o'. THe software isn't correcting it, you just can't tell the difference.
6: Mr. Breath gets barbershop shaves -- not all the time, but pretty often. He makes it sound very pleasant: hot towels on your face, manly banter about manly stuff, and a very close shave.
I haven't gone to a straight razor and don't think I'll ever use an electric razor, but I've found the older blades for disposable razors to be much more comfortable than the supposedly high-tech newer ones. Of course it's only a matter of time before they discontinue the older models.
My girlfriend was really excited to watch this week when I went from a full head of hair to a very close buzz-cut. In terms of actually doing the haircut, it was between her and one of her roomates, and when the roommate's advertised "experience" in this regard was discredited, she admitted that she wanted the roommate to do it just so she could watch.
Thus, this would support the thesis that women love to watch male hair-removal and further that they do not like to perform said hair-removal themselves.
The University Barbershop down by Ye Olde U of C offers a straight razor shave with towels and all that. They also use a straight razor with freshly whipped shaving cream for the edges (behind the ears, the neckline -- basically the "apeman" area). Just by the very fact that they offered the service, I was satisfied that they were competent to offer it.
You're not talking about the one in the basement of the Reynolds Club, right, but the one at the end of 57th? I like that place, they always go around the back of your neck with a razor at the end, with pleasantly warm shaving cream.
I finally found a place in Palo Alto that does that as well.
has anyone else ever been shaved by a significant other? i think i let it happen once. apparently it was quite good for her, but for me it was utterly terrifying, and left me bleeding slightly more than usual.
and however good a razor may be, i've always had cuts. maybe i'm not good at it, but really thick hair is no fun.
which is one reason i'm all about the facial hair.
(Now that body hair has been introduced, I must preface that) I had my face shaved with a straight razor by a barber in Italy, and it was very fine indeed.
I've talked to my dad about this, and he claims that a safety razor is preferable, despite the coolness of a straight razor, because shaving oneself with a straight razor is very difficult:
Actually, I inclined to agree with this, but...
I confess that I have long coveted either a straight or classy safety razor, and already own a badger brush (though not of top-quality bristles).
I happen to own a 'classy' straight razor and brush. 'Classy' (not classy) because it was my great-grandfather's straight razor. (Last used 1976, the year he died.) And I've got a cup and some soap because my mother spastically brought a kit for step-father one year that he never used so she gave it to me.
Straight razors are dangerous, so I propose that the sexy substitute is something that's a safety razor, but on a heavy handle. Like metal or something. Something substantial. That would be ideal.
27: can't remember, but he didn't seem to be too afraid. I do believe there was a small cut, but come on, y'all nick yourselves all the time anyway.
Anyway, I think there was some sort of shaving-exchange going on, so I think even if he had been in terror, he probably tried to hide it to ensure part two of the exchange. Perhaps.
Huh. My husband has hinted that anything from The Art of Shaving would be a welcome VDay or bday gift. He's been using a Gillette something or other, but wants to try a safety razor. Neat stuff.
Okay, so primitive instruments are more hott. But why? What about them is more hott?
There's more ritual associated with it. It takes longer, and takes more care, and is more dangerous. Compared to the efficiency of today's implements, they seem luxurious and, dare I say it, sensuous.
I'm not going along with the rocks, sword, or clamshells = hott theory. That crosses the line into stupid.
What's hot about shaving, and the straight razor specifically, is obvious: it requires concentration, it's highly sensual, it's something that takes time, it's intimate, and there's a certain vulnerability to it.
BPhd: I'm not at all sure why "something that takes time" made your "hott" list, but all those others seem right on. I guess I just wasn't thinking about it very hard.
I've been contemplating throwing out my electric (with which I've never been satisfied) and switching to a safety. I think this thread has inspired me to take the plunge.
Wait, I'm not ready yet. Someone explain this to me: Gillette spent over a billion dollars on R&D for the mach III. A BILLION. How could they have failed to improve on designs that are 100 years old?
More generally, what I mean is: razors are simply a piece of technology, and pretty much all other technology is improving, so why wouldn't modern razors deliver similarly better shaves than these antiques?
Again, I've been considering the switch (based on ancedotal testimony, and my frustration with all the modern instruments I've tried), so I'm obviously not fully convinced by my own reasoning. But I'm not quite not convinced either. Anyone have an explanation?
"...it requires concentration, it's highly sensual, it's something that takes time, it's intimate, and there's a certain vulnerability to it."
So is trimming pubic hair with a scissors, no?
Possibly someone's nostril hair, too.
Other acts that might arguably fit the above descriptions occur to me, but heaven forfend I might offend delicate sensibilities by specifying. (The "highly sensual" bit is the tricksy part, since that's so subjective.)
"I'm not at all sure why 'something that takes time' made your 'hott' list...."
Hypothesis: it takes time for some people to get turned on?
38: In a few years, we'll discover that that was a slush fund for the CEO that was reclassified as R&D. When the auditors asked what they had come up with, the CEO said, "It's a fucking--three-blade razor!" and they were like, "Wow, that would cost a billion to make!" and the stock market was saved.
43 - Interestingly, I ran this by my gay best friend and his boyfriend and the-watching-the-guy shaving thing does nothing for either of them. Small data set but take from it what you will.
Perhaps the gay man exception proves that the attraction lies with the mystery surrounding the ways of the opposite sex and not other aspects of the act. Because there are at least three notable things about watching a guy shave that make it cool: (1) being allowed to watch a normally private male ritual, (2) the masculinity of the act [due to its relation to male secondary sex characteristics], and (3) the association with sex [because you're most likely to see a guy shaving if one of you spent the night]. The gay men in my small sample appear not to appreciate bullets #2 and #3, so perhaps the attraction for women is in #1.
Bphd: I think there is very little overlap between "things that take a lot of time" and "things that are hott", despite your (obvious) observation that the thing most hott, when done correctly, usually takes a lot of time.
Is 51 a reference to one of those american sports?
Btw, prissy != gay.
The earnest answer to the question is that you use a number of words depending on the context, and work around the problem. I should have thought of that before, since I'm almost a professional translator of a sort, and that's how you do it. It wouldn't have been a fun answer, but I did tire of the discussion a little after the first 600 or so comments.
Alas, see, the shaving part was a bust, on account of the razor not having been recently sharpened. It is very very very sharp, but the fine edge is not there. I inherited an oil stone, but all I have is the box. (I don't know how that happened.) I must have had the strop, but it's gone as well.
So while some hair removal did, in fact, occur, it was very slow and uneven. No face slicing occurred, or I would have gotten a picture of that. ("Look! I'm gushing blood! Cool!")
So I had to finish with the Mach III doohickey, which does not shave well, but does shave fast.
(Side note: I had a safety razor I often used, but I couldn't get blades for it. Maybe this internet thing could help.)
ash
['Peter, engineers here at NASA are disappointed, but say that only a few bugs remain to be worked out.']
I can't say I find it hot at all, but it does make me happy in a much more intrinsic, childish fashion. When I was a very little girl I would raise holy hell if my Dad left for work in the morning without letting me watch him shave. No one could ever figure out why. I remember this state of affairs without remembering my thinking too clearly. I think it was the foam more than anything---there was something about the bowl made in the soap from his swirling the brush around to make the lather that just utterly fascinated me as well. So I will happily watch men get a shave whom I have no attraction to at all if it's soap and safety-blades. It seems like a very warm, friendly thing, actually--a way of expending all the not fully spent I-wish-I-had-a-brother love.
Hmm, I think if it was an electric shaver, that might be more an attraction thing. That's different somehow.
Straight-edge razors just make me nervous and sad about all the accidents that have happened.
Seems to me, shaving is sexy, to those for whom it is sexy, because it is all about touching and change. I imagine that the woman watching the man thinks about what it all feels like. What the face feels like before, during, and after. That is both what the face might feel like to her touch, and, what sensations the man feels. In the later case, the straight razor is more interesting because one can actually see the blade, so one can better imagine what its every move might be doing to the face. If the woman is "just watching", then she is seeing touch happening, and, imagining how the skin's texture is changing. She anticipates touching the man, to feel what he now feels like, to experience herself how he is changed. The slowness can be hot because it both gives more time to observe something hot, making it thus hotter, and, because it heightens the anticipation and thereby the desire to touch. The other daily change in a man connected to touch and a change in skin texture, is his erection. Not that there are too many parallels to his shaving, but perhaps, just enough.
Weird faces don't override sexy, if the sexiness is there, for t3h f0rm of t3h s3xx0r is too strong.
But shaving is hair removal & weird faces don't create sexiness. I'm obviously in the minority, guys, so shave away. By the light of a fire, barechested, in a mountain cabin, with your bristle brush. (In the kitchen, with a candlestick.)
I think 65 got it exactly right. Beards also are teh hott, but I am generally opposed to any form of facial hair other than a full beard, although some black men can pull off goatees, van dykes, and the rest of the variants.
77: Yeah, though 74 seemed to imply, when wrongly read, mind you, wrongly read with intent, admittedly so, that there are some men who can go around "pulling off" other men's goatees. Whereas 64 seems to be saying, that some men would groom themselves, individually that is, each his handling only the task of plucking his own.
I don't find the straight razors particularly sexy, because I know how dangerous they are. I do like the idea of a heavy, metal old-fashioned looking safety razor.
I do think that the soap and brush set-up is very cool, although I've heard that it's not terribly hygenic. While listening to Open Source I heard a barber/community organizer from New Orleans who runs a place called Aidan Gill for Men--very masculine. It sounds like an awesome place; you can get a scotch while you're shaved.
I love thequote from his opening page, and it fits neatly with our discussion of gender:
UNISEX IS A DEAD WORD: Let it be a call-to-arms. A mantra for the misguided. At Aidan Gill for Men, we're drawing the line between men and women's grooming for once and all. On our side, the passing frivolities of fashion hold no sway. We're focused on the timeless – the handmade razor, the badger shave brush, the well-made necktie. And in our back room, the ultimate experience – the Shave at the End of the Galaxy – a hot towel shave so luxurious that Irish poets fall to tears in describing it. Come in and see the style and the services for yourself. Leave unisex to the women, and follow the haze of hand-rolled cigar smoke to our little corner. Pull up a chair and let us pour you a drink. Don't worry – we've seen that expression on many men's faces before, and we know just what to do about it.
The thing that I think is so funny about shows liek Queer Eye for the Straight Guy is that they try to make basic grooming a feminine thing. They take guys to unisex/ feminine bamboo-filled rooms for manicures, but I'm pretty sure that back in the day before the safety razor, when men mainly got shaved at the barber shop, barbers also did basic manicures. They buffed nails and things.
Actually, I'm kind of concerned that theremight be a shortage of barbers coming. In order to be a real barber, you need to get much more training than you do to cut hair in a unisex salon. (Some hair dressers are very well trained, but the basic requirements are much lower; you don't have to learn how to shave) But the thing is that men who go to barbers are much cheaper, so they have a hard time making a better living. Even in a depressed area, a unisex salon can charge $25, but a barber won't get much more than $10 or $15 for a cut.
When I was very little and had darker hair, I used to get my hair cut by a barber. He would set a slab (can't think of a better word) on top of the arms of his chair that I would sit on. He had a great smile. I think there might be some black and white photos of me at the barber shop, but then I wanted to grow my hair out, and I went to a salon.
There was a parody show on Comedy Central for a while called "Straight Eye for the Queer Guy" or something like that. It was awful, all in all, but the one bit I did laugh at was the straight guy slobs going into the fellow's medicine cabinet, where there were seventy bajillion grooming products.
"Okay, we're going to get rid of all of these and get you a bar of soap. [Pulling out boxes] Laxatives? Dude, if you can't get it done with a cigarette and a cup of coffee, you don't deserve a bathroom."
My gf doesn't like it, because the thought of the blade so close to my neck terrifies her (I use a Mach 3, and don't know why anyone would use anything else). She also hates roller coasters, airplane rides, and violent movies, so.
I've not seen the billion dollar figure before, but I have to think that, if true, a significant amount of that money was figuring out how to market it, not develop it.
84: I remember that show. I thought it was kind of funny sometimes. I remember they were trying to teach the smiley gay guy to pick up women, and they said, "You look altogether too interested in what she is saying! Do not make friends!"
Because, after the Mach 3 proactively revolutionized the concept of the safety razor by adding a blade to the two blade mdel, Quattro rotely adding a forth could seem not even the flattery of imitation, but the rotest, most derivative inside the box thinking.
I'm a fan of the Mach-3. It really does to the best job of any razor I've ever used. (But then, I have a pathetically small amount of facial hair, so don't take my word for it.)
You think it's crazy? It is crazy. But I don't give a shit. From now on, we're the ones who have the edge in the multi-blade game. Are they the best a man can get? Fuck, no. Gillette is the best a man can get.
I use a Mach 3, and don't know why anyone would use anything else
Because the switch to the Mach 3 led to a lot of irritation and redness? See also 14. Also, "Mach 3" is a horrible name, more horrible than the name for whatever I'm using.
I just shaved, by the way, and spent the whole time thinking I should start looking into the safety razors. And if that doesn't work, the straight razors. They may be dangerous, but a world without clean shaves just isn't worth living in.
Urple, isn't the answer planned obsolescence? The claim is that newer is better, but newer is just a better way to get people to buy more often.
I have a goatee type beard - only without the moustache. iyswim.
I quite like the full-face beard and my wife seems to like the in-between stage i.e. fairly long stubble all over, but after a while it just itches like bastard and I end up shaving most of it off.
89: That's an interesting point. I would assume that under an accounting system that sought transparency, figuring out how to market it would go under the marketing expense. If the research and development of ads can be reported under the R&D expense line, I can see why companies would want to do so -- it gives the impression that they are contributing something real.
If such expenses can be classed under R&D, then it seems likely to me that the real R&D expenses of, say, the pharmaceutical industry are much lower than they lead us to believe and that their real advertising expenses are much higher. The glory and the power of capitalism astounds.
I imagine lots of the research was concerned with the metallurgy needed to make blades that are noticeably sharp -- and hence worth paying a premium for -- but combining that with a short length of useful life that fits with Gilette's marketing strategy in order to maximise profit.
Making a better razor was probably a fairly minor concern versus making a razor that makes us more money.
Well, to be fair to Gillette, their razors last a whole lot longer than the knock offs. I agree that they probably do work quite hard at maximizing profits, but I think they achieve this by making a razor using as little steel as possible, thereby making it cheaper to produce.
I also use a Mach III, along with every other guy I know who shaves regularly. It really is much better than a disposable, but I do get irritated at how much the cartridges cost (especially the Turbo ones, which cost a lot more than the original but don't last nearly as long). For the record, I have a lot of facial hair and I've been shaving since I was twelve.
I have a friend who works for this company, and I couldn't really see what market there was for such high-end stuff- now I can. But I'm totally unsexy using a wet-dry electric (I do add cream from a can, though). On the other hand, it's one of those with three heads, each with about 15 tiny blades that spin around, so take that, Quattro!
A close shave from a safety or straight edge just doesn't last long enough (for me, anyway) to justify the trouble. What's the point?
When I was a kid and up until I went away to school, I went to a real barber shop, three old Italian guys. They were not hot. They had a little machine that dispensed hot cream and they used a straight edge on your sideburns and neck. Didn't do much for me, kind of stung. Again, eh, what's the point, in a few days you won't know the difference.
I guess I'm the only one for whom the Mach 3 didn't work out. I think I use the Sensor Excel; I don't actually remember the name because I just buy the cartridges that I recognize. I believe it's the same as the first razor I ever used - also at 12, or maybe 13 - but it's possible I started with the Sensor.
I actually like the Sensor Excel for my own personal shaving purposes (got accustomed to it when I used to steal it from ex-boyfriend). Why the fuck are all "women's" razors pastel and made of plastic? Fuck you, Gillette.
What I've heard is that the Gillette "Venus" series is just the Mach 3 made girly, since so many women were borrowing their bf/hubby's Mach 3, or buying the Mach 3 on their own, since it's SO FUCKING SUPERIOR.
I recently switched from an Atra pivot to a dry electric, on the theory that it would shave closer and would nick me less -- the latter, at least, has proved to be the case. I would never put a straight-razor type blade near my face or neck before I'd had a cup of coffee in the morning. And I don't drink coffee.
"Making a better razor was probably a fairly minor concern versus making a razor that makes us more money."
Wait, I'm up for a razor that will make me more money -- does the Mach III do that? If so, sign me up! Sounds like research dollars well spent!
More seriously, the $1b research figure was definitely razor design, not marketing. I'm a lazy s.o.b. so I'm not going to provide a link, but they're out there. In fact, it was waaaaaaay over budget and the corporate higher-ups were very upset at the time. (Don't you all read the Wall Street Journal?) Which is why the phenomonal success of the razor hasn't really helped Gillette's stock price -- it had to be a phenomonal success just to break even; anything less would have all but sunk the company.
Some of that money might have gone towards ensuring "planned obselescnece", true, but I certainly got the impression from articles I read at the time that most of the money was spent in a genuine quest to find a better shave. (With the goal of making money thereby, of course, but with a genuine quest nonetheless.)
Maybe they failed and I should buy a double-edge. I'm still thinking about it. But if no one has actually been able to improve upon a 100 year old product, I'd sure like to know exactly why.
I have to admit I still cannot see, even allowing for collossal R & D overspend how they could spend $1 billion. The mind just boggles.
Pharmaceutical companies bring drugs to market for less.
Personally, I have razors of several types -- Mach 3, Sensor, Sensor Excel, various Wilkinson products -- and just buy whatever blades are being promoted at reduced price in my local supermarket.
The Mach 3 are pretty good - better than the Wilkinson products, certainly -- but if I shaved more often than I do, I doubt I could justify the expense.
A Gilette Sensor Excel Women's razor was used for Qui-Gon Jin's communicator in Star Wars, Episode I. They just painted it and added a few doodads. From girly to nerdy in just a few easy steps!
I use a Trac II, or whatever a double-edge is called anymore. I think three blades are excessive. With a full beard, salt-and-pepper, I only shave my neck several times a week. I sometimes look at the Civil War photographs, and imagine shaving everything except my neck.
I has also crossed my mind to shave with my 4-inch Buck, because sharpening, honing, and maintaining a good edge on knives and other tools is a skill I have not completely developed.
When I was in high school, I worked at a Kinko's near one of Gilette's corporate headquarters, and we did a lot of reproduction for them. One day shortly after the Mach 3 was introduced (to much fanfare) I spoke with one of the R&D guys about it. I told him that I was really enjoying it, and he was like, "Of course. It's the open architecture. It is a superlative shave."
The schick quattro is pretty cool. Why does it take so long for them to come out with a women's version of a new razor. It' often a year or more; I 's thik tey could roll them out simultaneously.
I know that the Mach 3 is not the superlative shave. The superlative shave can be found in Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy, in a small barber's shop near the town's old fortress gates. I stopped in for a haircut (and got the best haircut of my life, incidentally) and wasn't aware that I would be given a shave in addition. The barber was a gorgeous woman; she shaved my face with hot lather and a straight razor and didn't give me so much as a nick. If I say any more about it I'm going to have to take a cold shower.
I am pretty good at cutting hair, such that I usually end up regularly cutting the hair of whatever guy I'm dating for any significant length of time. I believe that two separate exes declared, on first getting a haircut from me, which seemed to be a rather intimate experience, that there should be some sort of enterprise in getting haircuts from hot, scantily-clad women. Apparently, there is already, such an enterprise, or at least I saw billboards in Austin for a place called "Sexy Scissors", and I can only assume that's what they provide.
Did "open architecture" confuse? The design of the razor allows you to run water through the razor's head; that was an innovation, if I recall correctly. Remember the dreadful state of disposable razors before the Mach 3 came along?
Anyway, the point of the story was that the razor tech's o-earnest confidence in the superiority of the Mach 3's design was amusing in a deadpan sort of way and perhaps anecdotally edifying as to whether Gilette truly invested in R&D for the M3.
Muskrat: I'd hate to make a mistake while laser shaving.
blake: Are you kidding? Have you made a mistake with a Mach3? They shave well, but I messed up with one once and it was practically a mortal wound. At least a laser would cauterize the wound as it cuts your lips off or whatever.
122: I know, my typing has gotten terrible. I think it's because I got used to typing lightly on a laptop keyboard and am now having to get used to a regular full-sized one.
I'm not sure how "on different nights" comports with the more traditional understanding of fidelity. That is to say, you won't wreck any home but our own? Sob...
The only time I cut myself semi-seriously shaving my legs I was using a Schick safety razor that had thin wires over the blade cartridge, presumably for the purpose of reducing nicks.
You know what rules. Disposable razors. I hardly ever cut my face. And, I don't like bleeding from my face. How close a shave do you need? It grows back anyway.
I read as far as urple,its all I could take.As iI said I am an old fart.When I was a boy I wanted to play with dads knife ,an always cut myself. when I got old enough to shave,dad gave me his straight razor to use,I was scared shitless.short version,It was bloody ,.but then it became easy after a while.Anyway a straight razor is sharper than any safety razor will ever be,thats why the closer shave,that and the shave soap has stuff in it that soften your face.I saw a commercial on t v today for a razor with 5 blades.Is this better ? NO. The razor company does this sort of thing cause its new an different an every swinging dick thinks he just wont be able to live without one.ie; they know the human male all to well.
Well, really, you can use your own soap even without using a straight razor. I've talked to my dad about this, and he claims that a safety razor is preferable, despite the coolness of a straight razor, because shaving oneself with a straight razor is very difficult: if you're right handed, there's no good way to get the right side of your face, especially under your cheekbone (mutatis mutandis for lefties). Straight razors are really for other people to shave you with. Safety razors, though, no prob.
I confess that I have long coveted either a straight or classy safety razor, and already own a badger brush (though not of top-quality bristles). No soap, though, but it doesn't really matter since I haven't been clean-shaven in a while anyway.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:32 PM
Lengthy, somewhat notorious article about shaving.
One reads that these are excellent blades.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:35 PM
Why notorious?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:39 PM
Apparently it sparked a lot of interest and became quite well-known.
Not really in a negative sense.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:42 PM
Great info! I'll put a shaving thingie on my pr0n page along with the other stuff!
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:42 PM
I cannot imagine ever, in a million years, allowing someone else to shave me with a straight razor.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:44 PM
Your comment utility corrects p - r - 0 - n to p -r - o - n. I fail to see the point.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:45 PM
It's reallt stubborn about the zero (0).
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:46 PM
OK does it put zero in numbers? 1001, 1oo1, boob, b00b
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:47 PM
If there's ever an FAQ, the zero o thing should be addressed.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:47 PM
This has been commented on before -- I think it's a font where zero is indistinguishable from the letter 'o'. THe software isn't correcting it, you just can't tell the difference.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:47 PM
I understand now. how about l and 1?
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:48 PM
6: Mr. Breath gets barbershop shaves -- not all the time, but pretty often. He makes it sound very pleasant: hot towels on your face, manly banter about manly stuff, and a very close shave.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:49 PM
I haven't gone to a straight razor and don't think I'll ever use an electric razor, but I've found the older blades for disposable razors to be much more comfortable than the supposedly high-tech newer ones. Of course it's only a matter of time before they discontinue the older models.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:50 PM
I cannot imagine ever, in a million years, allowing someone else to shave me with a straight razor.
But that would be hot!
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 3:58 PM
My girlfriend was really excited to watch this week when I went from a full head of hair to a very close buzz-cut. In terms of actually doing the haircut, it was between her and one of her roomates, and when the roommate's advertised "experience" in this regard was discredited, she admitted that she wanted the roommate to do it just so she could watch.
Thus, this would support the thesis that women love to watch male hair-removal and further that they do not like to perform said hair-removal themselves.
The University Barbershop down by Ye Olde U of C offers a straight razor shave with towels and all that. They also use a straight razor with freshly whipped shaving cream for the edges (behind the ears, the neckline -- basically the "apeman" area). Just by the very fact that they offered the service, I was satisfied that they were competent to offer it.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 4:00 PM
You're not talking about the one in the basement of the Reynolds Club, right, but the one at the end of 57th? I like that place, they always go around the back of your neck with a razor at the end, with pleasantly warm shaving cream.
I finally found a place in Palo Alto that does that as well.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 4:02 PM
has anyone else ever been shaved by a significant other? i think i let it happen once. apparently it was quite good for her, but for me it was utterly terrifying, and left me bleeding slightly more than usual.
and however good a razor may be, i've always had cuts. maybe i'm not good at it, but really thick hair is no fun.
which is one reason i'm all about the facial hair.
Posted by matty | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 4:07 PM
I dated a swimmer in high school who used to shave his entire body before State. Well, have his entire body shaved, anyway. That's all I'm saying.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 4:11 PM
Ben, Yes, I mean the one on 57th.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 4:38 PM
becks, you minx!
i know its so wrong, but i think passive voice is teh hott.
Posted by matty | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 4:39 PM
(Now that body hair has been introduced, I must preface that) I had my face shaved with a straight razor by a barber in Italy, and it was very fine indeed.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 5:04 PM
I've talked to my dad about this, and he claims that a safety razor is preferable, despite the coolness of a straight razor, because shaving oneself with a straight razor is very difficult:
Actually, I inclined to agree with this, but...
I confess that I have long coveted either a straight or classy safety razor, and already own a badger brush (though not of top-quality bristles).
I happen to own a 'classy' straight razor and brush. 'Classy' (not classy) because it was my great-grandfather's straight razor. (Last used 1976, the year he died.) And I've got a cup and some soap because my mother spastically brought a kit for step-father one year that he never used so she gave it to me.
Also:
Also invariably, this question arises: "Does the trend come from the gay community, or has feminism finally neutered the modern male?" To which I reply, "Have you ever tried to shave yourself with a straight razor? Many of my customers do it, every morning. Shave yourself with a straight razor and then come back to tell me about the feminization of men." That part never seems to make it into their stories. Absolutely nothing is more masculine than a shave tool that can take your head clean off. Straight razors practically drip testosterone from their unprotected blades. These bad boys are the reason safety razors exist. They are unassailable icons of dangerous living.
Clearly, I totally have to fuckin' do that, just to say I did.
So, I'm covered in gear goop, I need a shower really bad and I need to shave, so I'm like, going in, man.
Pictures?
ash
['Cover me!']
Posted by ash | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 6:06 PM
Aw, man. I shaved a guy's face once. It was teh hott.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 6:42 PM
Straight razors are dangerous, so I propose that the sexy substitute is something that's a safety razor, but on a heavy handle. Like metal or something. Something substantial. That would be ideal.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 6:43 PM
Clear there was some group polarization at work in that lunchtime conversation.
I'm surprised it didn't progress to having a man shave with a straight razor by candlelight with a wooden bucket of freshly pumped water.
Posted by Andrew | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 6:45 PM
silvana:
my then-gf very much agreed w/ your assessment. but for the shave-ee, was it teh terrorr?
Posted by matty | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 6:47 PM
I shave with a sharp rock.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 6:48 PM
Something tells me that when a girl in college offered to shave my head I should not have declined.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 6:51 PM
27: can't remember, but he didn't seem to be too afraid. I do believe there was a small cut, but come on, y'all nick yourselves all the time anyway.
Anyway, I think there was some sort of shaving-exchange going on, so I think even if he had been in terror, he probably tried to hide it to ensure part two of the exchange. Perhaps.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 6:55 PM
Real men shave with a six foot 30 lb double edged sword, according to Gene Wolfe. Before morning coffee.
I also think the Romans pulled facial hair with clamshells, but that would only be hott once.
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 8:41 PM
Okay, so primitive instruments are more hott. But why? What about them is more hott?
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 8:57 PM
Huh. My husband has hinted that anything from The Art of Shaving would be a welcome VDay or bday gift. He's been using a Gillette something or other, but wants to try a safety razor. Neat stuff.
Posted by annie | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 8:59 PM
Okay, so primitive instruments are more hott. But why? What about them is more hott?
There's more ritual associated with it. It takes longer, and takes more care, and is more dangerous. Compared to the efficiency of today's implements, they seem luxurious and, dare I say it, sensuous.
In general we have the rule: promote anachrony.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:08 PM
"All of the women present thought watching a man shave was totally hott."
I take it beards are right out, whether close-trimmed, styled, dreadlocked, or whatever?
Posted by Gary Farber | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:11 PM
I'm not going along with the rocks, sword, or clamshells = hott theory. That crosses the line into stupid.
What's hot about shaving, and the straight razor specifically, is obvious: it requires concentration, it's highly sensual, it's something that takes time, it's intimate, and there's a certain vulnerability to it.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:16 PM
BPhd: I'm not at all sure why "something that takes time" made your "hott" list, but all those others seem right on. I guess I just wasn't thinking about it very hard.
I've been contemplating throwing out my electric (with which I've never been satisfied) and switching to a safety. I think this thread has inspired me to take the plunge.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:21 PM
Wait, I'm not ready yet. Someone explain this to me: Gillette spent over a billion dollars on R&D for the mach III. A BILLION. How could they have failed to improve on designs that are 100 years old?
More generally, what I mean is: razors are simply a piece of technology, and pretty much all other technology is improving, so why wouldn't modern razors deliver similarly better shaves than these antiques?
Again, I've been considering the switch (based on ancedotal testimony, and my frustration with all the modern instruments I've tried), so I'm obviously not fully convinced by my own reasoning. But I'm not quite not convinced either. Anyone have an explanation?
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:28 PM
Hey, my list corresponded with B's to a remarkable extent. Why does she get the credit?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:32 PM
"...it requires concentration, it's highly sensual, it's something that takes time, it's intimate, and there's a certain vulnerability to it."
So is trimming pubic hair with a scissors, no?
Possibly someone's nostril hair, too.
Other acts that might arguably fit the above descriptions occur to me, but heaven forfend I might offend delicate sensibilities by specifying. (The "highly sensual" bit is the tricksy part, since that's so subjective.)
"I'm not at all sure why 'something that takes time' made your 'hott' list...."
Hypothesis: it takes time for some people to get turned on?
Posted by Gary Farber | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:38 PM
Wolfson: she said "sensual", you said "sensuous", and that made all the difference.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:40 PM
I can't really explain why, but I can totally see what Becks meant.
Posted by David Weman | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:51 PM
Butr I'm not gay!!!
Posted by David Weman | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:52 PM
38: In a few years, we'll discover that that was a slush fund for the CEO that was reclassified as R&D. When the auditors asked what they had come up with, the CEO said, "It's a fucking--three-blade razor!" and they were like, "Wow, that would cost a billion to make!" and the stock market was saved.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:54 PM
43 - Interestingly, I ran this by my gay best friend and his boyfriend and the-watching-the-guy shaving thing does nothing for either of them. Small data set but take from it what you will.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:57 PM
I thought we determined that 2 makes a trend now.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 9:58 PM
If my blogging tenure does nothing more than make a now or future Mrs. Urple's morning a little better, it will have been worth it.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:00 PM
That too totally makes sense, but again I can't quite articulate why.
Posted by David Weman | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:00 PM
This seems to be related, if you substitute haircut/shave for physical therapy.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:03 PM
48 to 45. Actually sensing that it's sensual is very heterosexual, although dwelling too much on it is of
gay.Posted by ough | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:07 PM
Was the "48 to 45" in 50 basically an assist?
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:10 PM
43 was supposed to be a setup for the observtion in 50, but I dawdled, and now I have made an un-unfogged-worthy joke. For naught.
Posted by David Weman | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:12 PM
Perhaps the gay man exception proves that the attraction lies with the mystery surrounding the ways of the opposite sex and not other aspects of the act. Because there are at least three notable things about watching a guy shave that make it cool: (1) being allowed to watch a normally private male ritual, (2) the masculinity of the act [due to its relation to male secondary sex characteristics], and (3) the association with sex [because you're most likely to see a guy shaving if one of you spent the night]. The gay men in my small sample appear not to appreciate bullets #2 and #3, so perhaps the attraction for women is in #1.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:13 PM
I get the credit because your comments accepted the hypothesis that it was "primitive" that was hott.
Taking time is hott for reasons that ought to be obvious. If they're not, well, I don't know how to help you.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:14 PM
Trimming nostril hair is not sexy because the association of "nostril" overrides the other factors. Duh.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:15 PM
Bphd: I think there is very little overlap between "things that take a lot of time" and "things that are hott", despite your (obvious) observation that the thing most hott, when done correctly, usually takes a lot of time.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:20 PM
No, but in combination with the other factors, the slow down of shaving is kinda nice, no?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:32 PM
"Trimming nostril hair is not sexy because the association of "nostril" overrides the other factors. Duh."
Yes. But you didn't mention any exclusion conditions. Thus the opening.
Posted by Gary Farber | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:33 PM
Is 51 a reference to one of those american sports?
Btw, prissy !=
gay.The earnest answer to the question is that you use a number of words depending on the context, and work around the problem. I should have thought of that before, since I'm almost a professional translator of a sort, and that's how you do it. It wouldn't have been a fun answer, but I did tire of the discussion a little after the first 600 or so comments.
Posted by David Weman | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 10:37 PM
Hah. Well, that was a bust. Nonetheless, I have pictures to annoy and grossify you.
Look, it's me getting shave ready!
[NB: entirely gratuitous bullets]
The dog is not having any of that shit.
"Look, man, I'm here for the food. You're here to feed me. What you do on your personal time is your problem. Now gimme the pork loin."
Had to shave my head. No woman (not even my girlfriend) has been near my sink recently.
Slight ly out-of-focus foamy stuff in a cup! But great-granddad's bush works spiffy.
General Jack T. Ripper at your service, ma'am!
Alas, see, the shaving part was a bust, on account of the razor not having been recently sharpened. It is very very very sharp, but the fine edge is not there. I inherited an oil stone, but all I have is the box. (I don't know how that happened.) I must have had the strop, but it's gone as well.
So while some hair removal did, in fact, occur, it was very slow and uneven. No face slicing occurred, or I would have gotten a picture of that. ("Look! I'm gushing blood! Cool!")
So I had to finish with the Mach III doohickey, which does not shave well, but does shave fast.
(Side note: I had a safety razor I often used, but I couldn't get blades for it. Maybe this internet thing could help.)
ash
['Peter, engineers here at NASA are disappointed, but say that only a few bugs remain to be worked out.']
Posted by ash | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 11:41 PM
I included more than five links. How EVIL of me.
ash
['EVIL EVIL EVIL.']
Posted by ash | Link to this comment | 02- 3-06 11:44 PM
I can't say I find it hot at all, but it does make me happy in a much more intrinsic, childish fashion. When I was a very little girl I would raise holy hell if my Dad left for work in the morning without letting me watch him shave. No one could ever figure out why. I remember this state of affairs without remembering my thinking too clearly. I think it was the foam more than anything---there was something about the bowl made in the soap from his swirling the brush around to make the lather that just utterly fascinated me as well. So I will happily watch men get a shave whom I have no attraction to at all if it's soap and safety-blades. It seems like a very warm, friendly thing, actually--a way of expending all the not fully spent I-wish-I-had-a-brother love.
Hmm, I think if it was an electric shaver, that might be more an attraction thing. That's different somehow.
Straight-edge razors just make me nervous and sad about all the accidents that have happened.
Posted by Saheli | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:44 AM
"That crosses the line into stupid.
What is this, a new rule? Around here this rule would have a chilling effect.
I haven't shaved since 1983, and I'm rarely regarded as hott, so there's another data point for you.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 3:56 AM
I take it beards are right out
Hell no. Beards separate the true men from the prisses.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 6:23 AM
Anyhow, real men pluck.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 6:54 AM
Seems to me, shaving is sexy, to those for whom it is sexy, because it is all about touching and change. I imagine that the woman watching the man thinks about what it all feels like. What the face feels like before, during, and after. That is both what the face might feel like to her touch, and, what sensations the man feels. In the later case, the straight razor is more interesting because one can actually see the blade, so one can better imagine what its every move might be doing to the face. If the woman is "just watching", then she is seeing touch happening, and, imagining how the skin's texture is changing. She anticipates touching the man, to feel what he now feels like, to experience herself how he is changed. The slowness can be hot because it both gives more time to observe something hot, making it thus hotter, and, because it heightens the anticipation and thereby the desire to touch. The other daily change in a man connected to touch and a change in skin texture, is his erection. Not that there are too many parallels to his shaving, but perhaps, just enough.
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:05 AM
I don't find it a turn-on. Men make weird faces when they shave, rather like women do when putting on mascara.
I like facial hair if well-groomed on a man who can actually grow facial hair well. Scraggly != sexy.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:08 AM
The other daily change in a man connected to touch and a change in skin texture, is his erection.
Somebody doesn't shed scales by rubbing his back up against a post.
I don't find it a turn-on. Men make weird faces when they shave, rather like women do when putting on mascara.
Weird faces != sexy? I don't think we have a future.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:10 AM
Sorry, just woke up = excessively goofy comments, perhaps.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:13 AM
Weird faces don't override sexy, if the sexiness is there, for t3h f0rm of t3h s3xx0r is too strong.
But shaving is hair removal & weird faces don't create sexiness. I'm obviously in the minority, guys, so shave away. By the light of a fire, barechested, in a mountain cabin, with your bristle brush. (In the kitchen, with a candlestick.)
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:17 AM
How's this? (Not actually me; previously linked by someone.)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:24 AM
Scraggly = sexy! ?
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:35 AM
'!=" = "doesn't equal"
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:45 AM
Quotes all wrong. Pedantic misfire.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:45 AM
I think 65 got it exactly right. Beards also are teh hott, but I am generally opposed to any form of facial hair other than a full beard, although some black men can pull off goatees, van dykes, and the rest of the variants.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:52 AM
"pull off goatees"
Ouch!
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:54 AM
Beards also are teh hott
That's more like it.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:55 AM
75, meet 64.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:56 AM
My wife happened to watch me shaving one morning, and she was fascinated. "God, it's just so... masculine!"
The compliment was rather diluted by the implication that I prance through the rest of my life, but there you go.
Posted by Matthew Harvey | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:57 AM
72: I prefer to give that text (66) a strong reading.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 7:59 AM
77: Yeah, though 74 seemed to imply, when wrongly read, mind you, wrongly read with intent, admittedly so, that there are some men who can go around "pulling off" other men's goatees. Whereas 64 seems to be saying, that some men would groom themselves, individually that is, each his handling only the task of plucking his own.
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 8:03 AM
some men who can go around "pulling off" other men's goatees
Euphemistically. At the Mineshaft.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 8:05 AM
78 implication? or do you mean inference?
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 8:07 AM
I don't find the straight razors particularly sexy, because I know how dangerous they are. I do like the idea of a heavy, metal old-fashioned looking safety razor.
I do think that the soap and brush set-up is very cool, although I've heard that it's not terribly hygenic. While listening to Open Source I heard a barber/community organizer from New Orleans who runs a place called Aidan Gill for Men--very masculine. It sounds like an awesome place; you can get a scotch while you're shaved.
I love thequote from his opening page, and it fits neatly with our discussion of gender:
The thing that I think is so funny about shows liek Queer Eye for the Straight Guy is that they try to make basic grooming a feminine thing. They take guys to unisex/ feminine bamboo-filled rooms for manicures, but I'm pretty sure that back in the day before the safety razor, when men mainly got shaved at the barber shop, barbers also did basic manicures. They buffed nails and things.
Actually, I'm kind of concerned that theremight be a shortage of barbers coming. In order to be a real barber, you need to get much more training than you do to cut hair in a unisex salon. (Some hair dressers are very well trained, but the basic requirements are much lower; you don't have to learn how to shave) But the thing is that men who go to barbers are much cheaper, so they have a hard time making a better living. Even in a depressed area, a unisex salon can charge $25, but a barber won't get much more than $10 or $15 for a cut.
When I was very little and had darker hair, I used to get my hair cut by a barber. He would set a slab (can't think of a better word) on top of the arms of his chair that I would sit on. He had a great smile. I think there might be some black and white photos of me at the barber shop, but then I wanted to grow my hair out, and I went to a salon.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 9:40 AM
they try to make basic grooming a feminine thing
There was a parody show on Comedy Central for a while called "Straight Eye for the Queer Guy" or something like that. It was awful, all in all, but the one bit I did laugh at was the straight guy slobs going into the fellow's medicine cabinet, where there were seventy bajillion grooming products.
"Okay, we're going to get rid of all of these and get you a bar of soap. [Pulling out boxes] Laxatives? Dude, if you can't get it done with a cigarette and a cup of coffee, you don't deserve a bathroom."
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 9:46 AM
Let it hereby be noted that not one single person has offered a good faith response to 38. And it was a serious question.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 9:55 AM
My gf doesn't like it, because the thought of the blade so close to my neck terrifies her (I use a Mach 3, and don't know why anyone would use anything else). She also hates roller coasters, airplane rides, and violent movies, so.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 9:59 AM
Oh, consider 86 sort of an anecdotal answer to 38.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:01 AM
Urple, My sources inside the Gilette company assure me that something like my account in 44 is actually the case.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:02 AM
I've not seen the billion dollar figure before, but I have to think that, if true, a significant amount of that money was figuring out how to market it, not develop it.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:05 AM
84: I remember that show. I thought it was kind of funny sometimes. I remember they were trying to teach the smiley gay guy to pick up women, and they said, "You look altogether too interested in what she is saying! Do not make friends!"
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:06 AM
"They said it couldn't be done -- but we did it" was the tag line of a razor commercial (Schick or Gillette), Razors are important.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:15 AM
I think that was for the Quattro, the Schick 4-blade knock-off of the Mach 3.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:16 AM
82: I thought I meant implication, but I throw myself on the mercy of the court.
Posted by Matthew Harvey | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:17 AM
Because, after the Mach 3 proactively revolutionized the concept of the safety razor by adding a blade to the two blade mdel, Quattro rotely adding a forth could seem not even the flattery of imitation, but the rotest, most derivative inside the box thinking.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:22 AM
I'm a fan of the Mach-3. It really does to the best job of any razor I've ever used. (But then, I have a pathetically small amount of facial hair, so don't take my word for it.)
94: This is the best thing ever:
Posted by Matthew Harvey | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:23 AM
I use a Mach 3, and don't know why anyone would use anything else
Because the switch to the Mach 3 led to a lot of irritation and redness? See also 14. Also, "Mach 3" is a horrible name, more horrible than the name for whatever I'm using.
I just shaved, by the way, and spent the whole time thinking I should start looking into the safety razors. And if that doesn't work, the straight razors. They may be dangerous, but a world without clean shaves just isn't worth living in.
Urple, isn't the answer planned obsolescence? The claim is that newer is better, but newer is just a better way to get people to buy more often.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:32 AM
I have a goatee type beard - only without the moustache. iyswim.
I quite like the full-face beard and my wife seems to like the in-between stage i.e. fairly long stubble all over, but after a while it just itches like bastard and I end up shaving most of it off.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:36 AM
89: That's an interesting point. I would assume that under an accounting system that sought transparency, figuring out how to market it would go under the marketing expense. If the research and development of ads can be reported under the R&D expense line, I can see why companies would want to do so -- it gives the impression that they are contributing something real.
If such expenses can be classed under R&D, then it seems likely to me that the real R&D expenses of, say, the pharmaceutical industry are much lower than they lead us to believe and that their real advertising expenses are much higher. The glory and the power of capitalism astounds.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:41 AM
Honest to god, how much research does anyone need into the science of shaving?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:44 AM
It's an art.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:45 AM
It's an art
... like the other sciences.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:48 AM
I imagine lots of the research was concerned with the metallurgy needed to make blades that are noticeably sharp -- and hence worth paying a premium for -- but combining that with a short length of useful life that fits with Gilette's marketing strategy in order to maximise profit.
Making a better razor was probably a fairly minor concern versus making a razor that makes us more money.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:49 AM
Well, to be fair to Gillette, their razors last a whole lot longer than the knock offs. I agree that they probably do work quite hard at maximizing profits, but I think they achieve this by making a razor using as little steel as possible, thereby making it cheaper to produce.
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 10:58 AM
I also use a Mach III, along with every other guy I know who shaves regularly. It really is much better than a disposable, but I do get irritated at how much the cartridges cost (especially the Turbo ones, which cost a lot more than the original but don't last nearly as long). For the record, I have a lot of facial hair and I've been shaving since I was twelve.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:21 AM
I have a friend who works for this company, and I couldn't really see what market there was for such high-end stuff- now I can. But I'm totally unsexy using a wet-dry electric (I do add cream from a can, though). On the other hand, it's one of those with three heads, each with about 15 tiny blades that spin around, so take that, Quattro!
A close shave from a safety or straight edge just doesn't last long enough (for me, anyway) to justify the trouble. What's the point?
When I was a kid and up until I went away to school, I went to a real barber shop, three old Italian guys. They were not hot. They had a little machine that dispensed hot cream and they used a straight edge on your sideburns and neck. Didn't do much for me, kind of stung. Again, eh, what's the point, in a few days you won't know the difference.
Posted by SP | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:25 AM
I guess I'm the only one for whom the Mach 3 didn't work out. I think I use the Sensor Excel; I don't actually remember the name because I just buy the cartridges that I recognize. I believe it's the same as the first razor I ever used - also at 12, or maybe 13 - but it's possible I started with the Sensor.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:29 AM
I actually like the Sensor Excel for my own personal shaving purposes (got accustomed to it when I used to steal it from ex-boyfriend). Why the fuck are all "women's" razors pastel and made of plastic? Fuck you, Gillette.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:40 AM
Does anyone but me remember how the original Venus design looked like one of those 1950's men's girlie toothbrushes?
Whereas the "Mach(o) 3" looks like a, um, tool.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:43 AM
What I've heard is that the Gillette "Venus" series is just the Mach 3 made girly, since so many women were borrowing their bf/hubby's Mach 3, or buying the Mach 3 on their own, since it's SO FUCKING SUPERIOR.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:44 AM
I recently switched from an Atra pivot to a dry electric, on the theory that it would shave closer and would nick me less -- the latter, at least, has proved to be the case. I would never put a straight-razor type blade near my face or neck before I'd had a cup of coffee in the morning. And I don't drink coffee.
Harvey in 93, you were good with 'implication'.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:50 AM
Watch your neck, Drymala, I'm going to start carrying my Sensor Excel around with me.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:53 AM
"Making a better razor was probably a fairly minor concern versus making a razor that makes us more money."
Wait, I'm up for a razor that will make me more money -- does the Mach III do that? If so, sign me up! Sounds like research dollars well spent!
More seriously, the $1b research figure was definitely razor design, not marketing. I'm a lazy s.o.b. so I'm not going to provide a link, but they're out there. In fact, it was waaaaaaay over budget and the corporate higher-ups were very upset at the time. (Don't you all read the Wall Street Journal?) Which is why the phenomonal success of the razor hasn't really helped Gillette's stock price -- it had to be a phenomonal success just to break even; anything less would have all but sunk the company.
Some of that money might have gone towards ensuring "planned obselescnece", true, but I certainly got the impression from articles I read at the time that most of the money was spent in a genuine quest to find a better shave. (With the goal of making money thereby, of course, but with a genuine quest nonetheless.)
Maybe they failed and I should buy a double-edge. I'm still thinking about it. But if no one has actually been able to improve upon a 100 year old product, I'd sure like to know exactly why.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:54 AM
Joe, of course, but in that case, "girly" carried the connotation of "pin-up" as well as "feminine."
Anyway, I thought you were working!
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 11:56 AM
re: 112 and 103
Fair enough.
I have to admit I still cannot see, even allowing for collossal R & D overspend how they could spend $1 billion. The mind just boggles.
Pharmaceutical companies bring drugs to market for less.
Personally, I have razors of several types -- Mach 3, Sensor, Sensor Excel, various Wilkinson products -- and just buy whatever blades are being promoted at reduced price in my local supermarket.
The Mach 3 are pretty good - better than the Wilkinson products, certainly -- but if I shaved more often than I do, I doubt I could justify the expense.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 12:03 PM
The newer electric shavers are actually very good. They're quick, convenient, and produce substantially less irritation.
And to those who think that they're not "dangerous" enough... try shaving in the car while negotiating rush-hour traffic!
Posted by Andrew | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 12:20 PM
110: Thanks, man. I got your back next time.
Posted by Matthew Harvey | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 12:46 PM
A Gilette Sensor Excel Women's razor was used for Qui-Gon Jin's communicator in Star Wars, Episode I. They just painted it and added a few doodads. From girly to nerdy in just a few easy steps!
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 1:22 PM
I use a Trac II, or whatever a double-edge is called anymore. I think three blades are excessive. With a full beard, salt-and-pepper, I only shave my neck several times a week. I sometimes look at the Civil War photographs, and imagine shaving everything except my neck.
I has also crossed my mind to shave with my 4-inch Buck, because sharpening, honing, and maintaining a good edge on knives and other tools is a skill I have not completely developed.
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 1:59 PM
to shave with my 4-inch Buck
You'd have to be very flexible. Why'd you name it Buck?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:04 PM
When I was in high school, I worked at a Kinko's near one of Gilette's corporate headquarters, and we did a lot of reproduction for them. One day shortly after the Mach 3 was introduced (to much fanfare) I spoke with one of the R&D guys about it. I told him that I was really enjoying it, and he was like, "Of course. It's the open architecture. It is a superlative shave."
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:12 PM
The schick quattro is pretty cool. Why does it take so long for them to come out with a women's version of a new razor. It' often a year or more; I 's thik tey could roll them out simultaneously.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:17 PM
Have another drink, bg.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:20 PM
Is 119 the first penis-joke of the post-ogged era?!? First I've noticed, but I haven't been paying very close attention.
I don't understand 120.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:22 PM
I know that the Mach 3 is not the superlative shave. The superlative shave can be found in Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy, in a small barber's shop near the town's old fortress gates. I stopped in for a haircut (and got the best haircut of my life, incidentally) and wasn't aware that I would be given a shave in addition. The barber was a gorgeous woman; she shaved my face with hot lather and a straight razor and didn't give me so much as a nick. If I say any more about it I'm going to have to take a cold shower.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:23 PM
I am pretty good at cutting hair, such that I usually end up regularly cutting the hair of whatever guy I'm dating for any significant length of time. I believe that two separate exes declared, on first getting a haircut from me, which seemed to be a rather intimate experience, that there should be some sort of enterprise in getting haircuts from hot, scantily-clad women. Apparently, there is already, such an enterprise, or at least I saw billboards in Austin for a place called "Sexy Scissors", and I can only assume that's what they provide.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:30 PM
Did "open architecture" confuse? The design of the razor allows you to run water through the razor's head; that was an innovation, if I recall correctly. Remember the dreadful state of disposable razors before the Mach 3 came along?
Anyway, the point of the story was that the razor tech's o-earnest confidence in the superiority of the Mach 3's design was amusing in a deadpan sort of way and perhaps anecdotally edifying as to whether Gilette truly invested in R&D for the M3.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:32 PM
And on Gilette, we'll all be hearing more about this during the Super Bowl.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:40 PM
I like this exchange from 'Smasher's link:
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:45 PM
122: I know, my typing has gotten terrible. I think it's because I got used to typing lightly on a laptop keyboard and am now having to get used to a regular full-sized one.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:50 PM
Don't ruin our fantasies, bg. Just own up to being drunk off your ass.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:52 PM
You fantasize about bg being drunk off her ass?
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:54 PM
Wel y'all are much more likely to have your way with me, if I'm drunk.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 2:59 PM
Y'all, eh? And all along we thought Tia was teh kinky.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 3:12 PM
On different nights, Smasher. I didn't feel it would be right to single out apostropher, because then I'd be stealing B's blog boyfriend.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 3:17 PM
Silvana. they have those barbershops in Taiwan. You have the barbershops where you get a haircut, and then you have the full-service barbershops.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 3:31 PM
What, b/c I'm possessive?!?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 3:45 PM
No, but I have a more traditional understanding of fidelity, B. I don't want to be a home wrecker/other woman.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 3:50 PM
Dude, then the problem is Apo's wife, not me.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 3:52 PM
Apo's wife doesn't exist in blogland.
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 4:01 PM
I'm not sure how "on different nights" comports with the more traditional understanding of fidelity. That is to say, you won't wreck any home but our own? Sob...
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 4:01 PM
She showed up here once, though.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 4:02 PM
Twice.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 4:07 PM
The only time I cut myself semi-seriously shaving my legs I was using a Schick safety razor that had thin wires over the blade cartridge, presumably for the purpose of reducing nicks.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 4:39 PM
Cala--I had a problem with a razor like that.
I know it's heart-wrenching, but I just coulddn't stand the DAMN BUNNY SLIPPERS, Ttam. Oh wait, you said you didn't own any...
Posted by bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 5:12 PM
I knew I should've stopped taking them out of the library!
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 5:15 PM
So whose slippers were they?
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 5:15 PM
While the cat's away, the mice will say, "pwned, eb!"
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 5:16 PM
I don't know, Weiner, your home may be wrecked, but we could be acting in concert.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 02- 4-06 5:25 PM
You know what rules. Disposable razors. I hardly ever cut my face. And, I don't like bleeding from my face. How close a shave do you need? It grows back anyway.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 02- 6-06 11:40 AM
Sorry to be so late to this, but, dude, I learned this in high school. And I was a teenaged loser!
Posted by JRoth | Link to this comment | 02- 6-06 4:26 PM
I read as far as urple,its all I could take.As iI said I am an old fart.When I was a boy I wanted to play with dads knife ,an always cut myself. when I got old enough to shave,dad gave me his straight razor to use,I was scared shitless.short version,It was bloody ,.but then it became easy after a while.Anyway a straight razor is sharper than any safety razor will ever be,thats why the closer shave,that and the shave soap has stuff in it that soften your face.I saw a commercial on t v today for a razor with 5 blades.Is this better ? NO. The razor company does this sort of thing cause its new an different an every swinging dick thinks he just wont be able to live without one.ie; they know the human male all to well.
Posted by anoldfart | Link to this comment | 02-20-06 8:05 PM