I suppose this is rather Oggedian. I don't swim for exercise, though, I'm just too slow. (I love the water, and can stay afloat and keep moving approximately forever, but not at any paricular speed or with any grace. And I hate chlorine.)
Or was something about what I was doing (moving back and forth from one piece of equipment to another) obnoxious in itself?
I'm afraid this is the problem. I've seen people trying to monopolize as many as three different pieces of equipment at once, then get snippy with me when I dare to move in before they're done (not saying you got snippy, but the principle is sort of the same). Splitting your sets between different pieces of equipment is, I think, generally frowned upon unless you're doing supersets. And supersets are supposed to only apply when you're working opposing muscle groups (e.g. biceps & triceps), and even then are considered pointless by everyone except the types of guys who yell motivational things at each other during lifts.
I think it's pretty impolite to say "no" to a friendly request that someone be allowed to work in. But I still really, really hate it when people do.
Tom is wrong; this isn't your fault; the guy at your gym was just an ass.
Now if you had just yelled from the bench "hey I'm using that" when the guy tried to get in the squat rack, that would have been incorrect on your part.
I'd suggest dropping a piece of equipment (ater bottle, clipboard, whatever) at both locations so it's clear you're using both machines. And of course be polite and always let anyone else work in with you.
And Tom, there are lots of good reasons to move between machines instead of just resting between sets. It shortens your workout for one, and keeps your heartrate up (making your whole routine far more effective) for two.
My gym pet peeve: there is a girl who likes to jog on the treadmill opposite mine who really needs to start wearing a bra. Who doesn't wear a bra to the gym? Just watching her makes me think ow, ow, ow, ow, ow...
See, this is what I like in a commenter, support. The workout shortening thing is my main goal -- I work out at lunch, and really try to be away from my desk for no more than an hour.
How do you pull off the workout-at-lunch thing? The only people I know who can pull that off are guys. It would take me a half hour to shower, dry my hair, and dress again, and I'm not even fussy about makeup or anything.
I disagree. If you're waiting so long between sets that keeping your heart rate up is a concern, you're not pairing the sets together in any meaningful way, anyway. Consequently the time at which you're using the apparatus doesn't matter, and there's no reason why you should be accorded a stake to it other making your schedule convenient -- and since this advantage comes at the cost of other people's schedules, I don't find that argument persuasive. You can wait your turn again.
Everyone has their own rest interval between sets, but Marty Gallagher (who used to do a lifting chat for the Post online) used to regularly quote Bill Pearl as saying your next set should start between when your breathing returns to normal and when your heartrate does. That always seemed like a good rule of thumb to me.
If your gym is very large, then hey, go nuts. Do whatever routine you like. At the YMCA where I go, though, things are in short supply, and if one person occuppies more than one machine at a time (without a specific fitness reason) it's a major inconvenience to everyone else.
15: I'm really, really, really unfussy. Zero makeup, pretty much ever, and I braid my hair back on days I work out and don't unbraid it or wash it afterwards (I shower, just keep my hair dry). I don't actually recommend my grooming standards to anyone, but no one throws rocks at me in the street.
16: I've just started doing squats rather than a leg-press machine, and am still working with pretty light weights (less than half of what I can press) while I improve my form and balance.
16 - she probably wasn't trying to work on her 1 rep max. Maybe you're just not pushing yourself very hard, what with all that recovery time you're taking and all. :)
Seriously, check out these guys: www.crossfit.com. Insanely tough workouts, generally no "rest" between sets. (In fact the whole workouts are often done 'for time' - complete three sets of x reps of these four exercises, for time, meaning do the whole thing as quickly as possible). You'll take some breaks, sure, but onyl insofar as you need them. And you will be working hard.
Consequently the time at which you're using the apparatus doesn't matter, and there's no reason why you should be accorded a stake to it other making your schedule convenient -- and since this advantage comes at the cost of other people's schedules, I don't find that argument persuasive.
I can see this as a reason that I shouldn't lay claim to two pieces of equipment all to myself, but so long as I don't mind other people working in (which I don't at all, I was just irked by the refusal to return the favor), what's the harm?
Rule of thumb I learned was 30 seconds between sets if one was trying to maximize cardiovascular fitness. 90 seconds extreme to that end, but more to the point, if you're waiting a minute and half intentionally, someone can certainly sneak in, do a quick set, reset the weights, and there you are.
Am I right to think that doing a squat means holding a dumbbell (that's the longer kind, right? and barbel is the shorter kind?) behind your neck, supported by your shoulders, with your hands midway out on the bar, and bending your knees til you are squatting, then straightening your knees? If so:
What do you do with your torso? Do you bend forward at the waist or keep your body vertical? Do you attempt to keep your heels on the floor, or come up onto the balls of your feet? If you try to keep your heels on the floor, how high a priority is this -- do you stop bending your knees as soon as your heels start to come away from the floor?
Most of the people I see lean forward at the waist, but keep the back flat. Heels remain flat; the motion is like sitting in a chair while reaching across a table.
That said, I don't do squats because I have a very hard time getting the form correct.
LB: I would extraordinarily resent what you did, not because you would inconvenience me timewise, but because you would force me to talk to you. I hate talking to strangers, especially in the gym.
holding a dumbbell (that's the longer kind, right? and barbel is the shorter kind?)
Reversed.
bending your knees til you are squatting, then straightening your knees?
Pretty much.
Do you bend forward at the waist or keep your body vertical?
Bend forward somewhat, but with your back flat.
Do you attempt to keep your heels on the floor, or come up onto the balls of your feet? If you try to keep your heels on the floor, how high a priority is this -- do you stop bending your knees as soon as your heels start to come away from the floor?
You do keep your heels on the floor, and it's quite a high priority -- that's actually a large part of what I'm working on because my flexibility is awful. Always has been.
Thanks -- I'm always getting the two kinds of bells mixed up -- I'll get it one a these days.
When I was doing Tae Kwon Do (which incidentally corresponds closely to the only time in my life that I was physically fit), there was a squatting exercise like that, but without weight. Extremely strenuous without weight, I guess probably even moreso with weight. I really ought to start exercising again, I just have a lot of trouble starting up. And then on top of that, trouble keeping with it once started.
I tend to lean back too far on my squats, keeping my upper body vertical. Can't figure it out without a trainer, and no desire to injure myself with the squats in the meantime.
I find that taking quite a wide stance helps (and, of course, starting out with light weights so even if your form isn't perfect you aren't going to hurt yourself). This is one of those pelvic anatomy things -- I get the impression that the stance that works for most men is distinctly narrower than the one that works for me, and I would guess for other women.
JO: bodyweight squats can be great exercise. Just focus on form, and crank out 50 or 100 (or whatever feels right) as quickly as possible. Rest and repeat.
The one piece of squat form most people seem to be forgetting is that you shoudl try to keep for torso as upright as possible. Most people bend over too far. Also, look in a mirror or have someone watch you, because otherwise most people only squat down about 1/4 of the way. You want to go down at least until your thoughts are parallel with the floor.
For "extraordinarily resent" read "be kinda annoyed." I'm somewhat antisocial, and shy with new people. I try to get my wife to make phone calls to anyplace that might require talking to a stranger. I do okay at parties where I know people, but I generally need a fair amount of alone time to make up for it.
Becks -- I was never any good at it -- and I only stayed with it a year or so -- but it did get me in good shape. That year (96 maybe?) and the next year, when I was riding my bicycle a whole lot, were like this weird period where I actually enjoyed exercising and felt comfortable in my body -- a lot of time since then is spent figuring out how to get back there.
34: I love that site. (I actually linked it a while back -- wherever the thread was that Armsmasher was worrying about whether lifting weights would make him unattractively bulky.)
My brothers actually got started in TKD when I took a parent-child class with them my senior year in high school. They really wanted to take the class but my parents weren't into it so I pretended to be their unwed teenaged mother. There was much whispering from the other moms behind our backs. I could have corrected them but I thought it was hilarious.
I have an elliptical trainer and free weights in my basement. I never use them, though, because there are too many good distractions around the house (books!). I haven't had a gym membership in a few years, but I've actually been thinking about getting one again just to have the distraction-free place to go and not have to talk to anyone.
I can't work out of the house for any number of reasons, including the distractions mentioned above, the fact that I'd have to spend time on the phone, and that the kind of work I do requires lots and lots of face-to-face meetings. I actually do fine with people face-to-face--my comfort level rises dramatically once ice has been broken.
I can sympathize as I'm pretty much the same (I'm fine with people I know, but hate talking to strangers). That's part of why I was irritated enough to blog about this -- I thought that asking to work in with someone was a stereotyped enough interaction that it really didn't count as conversing with a stranger. Once I got the refusal, the whole interaction became retroactively embarrassing.
Maybe my form doesn't suck then, if more upright is ideal. The last time I had to do squats seriously (college), I hated how the bar felt on my shoulders.
My thoughts are usually passed out, under the table.
47: The bar is uncomfortable, especially if, like me, you don't have much in the way of traps. I wrap a towel around it as a cushion. And you should absolutely be as upright as you can be and still retain your balance.
I don't think there's a formulaic relationship, but I have the impression that most people can press an awful lot more than they can squat -- the torso muscles stabilizing the weight are the bottleneck. My sense (and I should oh, so not be handing out weightlifting advice) is that if you're moving from leg presses to squats that you should start much, much lighter, and only add weight as you're confident in your ability to do them with good form.
I checked out stumptuous when you first mentioned it, LB. Seems pretty great.
23: Squat form is really tough, but really important if you're going to avoid fucking up your back. But when you do it right, you really do work about half of your body in a single motion. It's pretty amazing. The way I learned: barbell on the shoulders, not the neck. Leg stance is whatever's comfortable and roughly shoulder-width (for me this is a delicate exercise in finding the position that screws up my knees the least). Keep your weight on your heels. Start by sticking your butt out. It feels stupid, but the butt is really the key to the motion (as with so many things). Keep your back straight, and if you've got a mirror, look yourself in the eyes. Descend until the tops of your thighs are parallel to the floor — pause for a second, if you can stand it, to ensure that you aren't using your tendons as springs to help you get back up — then push quickly up off your heels. Ideally without falling backward (might wanna try it without weight first).
I can see this as a reason that I shouldn't lay claim to two pieces of equipment all to myself, but so long as I don't mind other people working in (which I don't at all, I was just irked by the refusal to return the favor), what's the harm?
This makes sense. I guess it's just my own preferences speaking here. Like Chopper, I hate having to interact with other folks at the gym (for one thing, my headphones make it literally impossible to hear them). And when you're splitting sets you feel pressure to use the machine efficiently, artificially altering your rest periods to fill the gaps between the other person's sets. Or at least I do.
Yeah, it is. I was just wondering where to start. The bar is 45. I can easily press 190. Worried that the bar would be too heavy, and then I'd be all crippled.
First, the fact that you do squats is awesome. Second, the guy was being an ass. What was particularly infuriating was saying "I've only got three more sets." Three sets is fairly standard for the total number of sets one should do for any given exercise. So saying "I've only got three more sets" was akin to saying "go fuck yourself."
"I've only got one more set" would have been an acceptable response, were he then to start the set. Generally, when someone asks to work in, the only acceptable reponses are: (1) "sure," or (2) "I've only got one more set" (then starting that set). I suppose, if it were applicable, (3) "no, on account of I've got shingles," would also be acceptable.
54 - Smith machines are dangerous for squats, because straight up and down isn't really the natural motion. It's close, but just off enough to be wrong in a bad way.
58 - if you're worried about messing up your back or something, that's extremely unlikely to happen just with a bar. (More liekly woudl be that you just used a bar, thought you were doing things right, weren't, added a lot of weight, and then hurt yourself). But if you're really worried you can always start with just a broomstick or pvc pipe or something like that. Great way to work on form with little risk of injury. (And it's not silly or a waste of time! I repeat: body-weight-only squats are great exercise.)
Oh and BTW Becks -- when I was writing 36 I meant to say something to the effect of "Wow! Good on your brother!" but looking back, I see that I omitted to do so. Very impressive, that.
I don't think there's a formulaic relationship, but I have the impression that most people can press an awful lot more than they can squat
I think this is partly because of the machines, and partly because people cheat. The weight is usually on a pivot or sled, meaning that ity travels a lot less vertical distance than it would with free weights, so you're doing a lot less work.
Also, some folks are just terrible about cheating on machines. I remember at college there was one guy who would come into the gym, load 45lb plates onto the leg press until he literally couldn't fit any more, then do "presses" that involved him bending his legs eeeever so slightly, then straightening them. It was pretty evident that he was proud of this. The guy couldn't have weighed much more than 150.
To 50, google for "manta ray squat" - it's an attachment you put on the bar that makes things much more comfortable and stable. A bit pricey but worth it to me, anyway. I don't know why gyms don't seem to have them on hand as part of their equipment.
everyone should do more squats, especially myself. We are a nation of flat butts. We need sleek, powerful hindquarters to fight the terrorists, and you can't get that on a smith machine. Squats is how we beat the nazis. Few people know that it was Heisenberg who invented the Smith machine -- it was once called the Heisenberg machine, but the name fell out of favor, and some clever ad man sought to "americanize" the monstrosity -- which is why Heisenberg himself is known to have had assymetrical leg strength. The nazis trained on smith machines and so were unable to contend with the strong butted americans on d-day and v-e-day and all the other days.
I had thought the big beef with machines in general is that they constrain the path of motion for the exercise, thus eliminating the development of all the little tiny muscles that allow you to correct when the weight drifts slightly off course during free weight use. There are a few mucle groups where a machine of some sort is necessary (I'm thinking mainly of lat work, here), but for the most part you're just going to be better off doing free weights for most exercises. (Although I use a bench press machine because I hate asking for spots.) Is this theory no longer in good standing?
No, I think that's right. At least, that's why I'm in the process of weaning myself off machines and onto free weights. (I can't give up the assisted-chinup machine yet, but I have ambitions.)
the theory is right, Chops. And also, most machines allow one side of the body to lift more than the other side (whereas with free weights, the bar would tip) leading to assymetry.
70- I'm not sure if you were talking to me or not, but building stabilizer muscles and core strength and improving balance are some of the benefits of free weights over machines. So yes that theory is still in good standing. Smith machines are just bad for squats -- hard on the knees, I think, but maybe the back (I'm not totally sure), because in a natural squatting motion the bar doesn't go straight up and down (which a Smith machine forces).
You can do pullups for lat work. If those are too easy, do them weighted. If those are too easy, do them one-handed. Those won't be too easy.
I am worried about back injuries; have a tendency towards them.
If you start slow, squats might really help with that. Deadlifts, too, although you really really need someone who knows what they're doing to show you how. This precludes me -- I can't avoid doing straight-leg ones for some reason, which I'm told are dangerous but haven't yet caused me grief. So I'll shut up about them, but yeah: after squats, they might be the single-motion lift that works the most muscle at once.
70: that's my understanding, too. But another reason why they have their place: sometimes you can't really exhaust a muscle without its necessary support muscles first becoming tired (pectorals come to mind).
I just started squats. I do them with my trainer and I very nearly fainted last week on what I think was my third set. I think he had forty lbs plus the bar on there. Also, he has me sitting onto a seat to make sure I am going down far enough. So I still have quite a ways to go. Interestingly, I still can't press much beyond the bar. Sometimes 10-20 extra lbs. and that is when I have a spotter. I've visited stumptuous like 50 times this week for inspiration. My trainer swears I'll start to see progress soon.
Now that we're discussing weight room etiquette, isn't it high time we revisit the topic of locker room etiquette? (And to think, back in the day, a post like that got a grand total of four comments.)
Nice. Northern Manhattan is in the house! The cradle of civilization, as it were. Although I work out downtown. I've never heard tell of a good gym up that way.
What was the answer to Ogged's question? Has locker room etiquette changed? If so, why? I'd speculate that it's not that more men are openly gay in locker rooms, but that they're less homophobic/less afraid of being perceived as gay, and natural curiosity comes out.
There's a man who comes into the gym roughly at the same time I do who is both very old and very hard of hearing, and we've struck up a few interesting conversations over the last few months. The funny thing is that he always picks up the conversation at exactly the point we left off, even if two weeks have passed; he must be remarkable at parties. We've talked about Russian novels and especially gardening at length (not exactly gymsmanlike, but whatever).
The other funny thing is not specific to this old guy: All old men like to spend approximately 60% of their time at the gym in the buff, unconcerned with the fact that their bodies serve as harbingers of horrible days to come for the rest of us. Which sets us up for the scence with which I was greeted the other day: having walked into the locker room and turned the corner, I saw my old friend for the first time in a while, naked as the day he was born, screaming at me, "I RECENTLY FIND MYSELF VERY INTERESTED IN ASEXUAL PROPAGATION."
it is precisely because they know their bodies give offense that old men enjoy nudity to the extent that they do. They have to spend each day in that body, and so they will inflict its image upon whoever they can. And they enjoy saunas. There was an old man wearing goggles whose image is seared upon my retina.
As far as the change in ettiquette, I'm pretty sure that was just another example of ogged's paranoid homophobia.
From the linked Ogged post: People, if you have to look, do it when I'm washing my face in the shower, not as I'm walking toward you, looking you in the eye.
Do guys really still have those open showers where everybody's together? I figured those would have been phased out by now and men would have the nice little stalls like the girls do. Is it just that guys are used to them or are gyms afraid that if they give the guys private stalls they'll have...policing problems?
Also, what are you doing making eye contact with other people in the locker room while you're nekkid anyway?
My gym has open showers. If the women have stalls I'm suing for discrimination. Incidentally, there's this guy who's often there who likes to really clean his cock when he showers at the gym. I mean, he really cleans it vigorously. He makes something of a scene. I don't know if anyone's ever bothered to say anything to management.
Sadly, the practice of putting cute little couches in women's bathrooms is going by the wayside as designers figure out that we really don't faint all that much since we cut back on the corsets.
I'm told that until recently (?) Texas law required that there be couches in women's bathrooms, in case of faintings. (This came up in a discussion spurred by the following: Some furniture was moved from the corridor into the bathroom, because they were waxing the hall or something. I walked into the men's bathroom and was disconcerted, because the unfamiliar look made me think I was in the wrong one.)
Anyway, bathroom construction is a traditional tool of the patriarchy.
That's untrue. If women would just pee in the sink as the need arises, as we do, there wouldn't be such long lines. Also useful - those little straw things that let them pee standing up, so they can cross streams as necessary.
My guess is that Labs' link in comment 3 of the locker-room etiquette thread was the same article, but I wasn't willing to click over based on the URL. IOW, yes.
In my gym, there are signs on all the machines saying that you are NOT to hog the machine between sets if someone else is waiting, and not to be offended if an instructor asks you to move off. I'm generally there when it's not that busy so people usually do stay on the machines esp. if they only have one set to go. I do this myself but if someone asked me to alternate I would have to oblige them.
PS How do some commenters post w/o a link every time to their email address? I'd like to minimise spam.
113: It's relatively easy and quick to readjust a machine to a particular weight and height-setting. Not so when you're doing sets of squats, and the other person is working with very different amounts of weight.
Or, if you don't want spam but do want people to be able to contact you, do some version of the 'emr at hotmail dot com' trick, for whatever your address is.
I have come to suspect that harvesting bots are on to that one. My new comcast e-mail gets a ton of spam, and the only placeI've posted it is here and a few other blogs, always with text like 'nospam' in the middle.
I on the other hand, keep on getting sick, and have barely been working out for the last month. (I miss a workout because I'm busy, then sick, then busy again, then sick again...) I'm vainly hoping that lifting once a week, which is about all I've been managing since January, will keep me from losing too much ground for when I get back into it.
Maybe LizardBreath is Ogged's true heir.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:28 PM
I suppose this is rather Oggedian. I don't swim for exercise, though, I'm just too slow. (I love the water, and can stay afloat and keep moving approximately forever, but not at any paricular speed or with any grace. And I hate chlorine.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:36 PM
At my gym, the standard practice is to ask if the person using the equipment minds alternating sets, and they almost always say 'yes'.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:37 PM
That's my understanding of the norm as well. I was really sort of surprised and irritated by the "No."
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:40 PM
LB, this is where the massibe upper arm muscles you have developed from your weight training can come in handy.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:42 PM
Wait, if the person "minds alternating sets" that should mean they don't want to do alternating sets.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:44 PM
I resolve this quandary by never exercising.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:46 PM
See that overly-literal thinking will only get you so far in this world.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:46 PM
8 to 6. My solution is in line with 'Postropher's.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:47 PM
Or was something about what I was doing (moving back and forth from one piece of equipment to another) obnoxious in itself?
I'm afraid this is the problem. I've seen people trying to monopolize as many as three different pieces of equipment at once, then get snippy with me when I dare to move in before they're done (not saying you got snippy, but the principle is sort of the same). Splitting your sets between different pieces of equipment is, I think, generally frowned upon unless you're doing supersets. And supersets are supposed to only apply when you're working opposing muscle groups (e.g. biceps & triceps), and even then are considered pointless by everyone except the types of guys who yell motivational things at each other during lifts.
I think it's pretty impolite to say "no" to a friendly request that someone be allowed to work in. But I still really, really hate it when people do.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:47 PM
Tom is wrong; this isn't your fault; the guy at your gym was just an ass.
Now if you had just yelled from the bench "hey I'm using that" when the guy tried to get in the squat rack, that would have been incorrect on your part.
I'd suggest dropping a piece of equipment (ater bottle, clipboard, whatever) at both locations so it's clear you're using both machines. And of course be polite and always let anyone else work in with you.
And Tom, there are lots of good reasons to move between machines instead of just resting between sets. It shortens your workout for one, and keeps your heartrate up (making your whole routine far more effective) for two.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:53 PM
My gym pet peeve: there is a girl who likes to jog on the treadmill opposite mine who really needs to start wearing a bra. Who doesn't wear a bra to the gym? Just watching her makes me think ow, ow, ow, ow, ow...
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:55 PM
See, this is what I like in a commenter, support. The workout shortening thing is my main goal -- I work out at lunch, and really try to be away from my desk for no more than an hour.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:56 PM
13 to 11, although I suppose it applies to 12 as well. We've got one or two of those at my gym too and my, does it look uncomfortable.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:57 PM
How do you pull off the workout-at-lunch thing? The only people I know who can pull that off are guys. It would take me a half hour to shower, dry my hair, and dress again, and I'm not even fussy about makeup or anything.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:58 PM
You're not pushing yourself very hard if you don't need some recovery time after a set. Especially squats.
Posted by Jonathan | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 12:59 PM
I disagree. If you're waiting so long between sets that keeping your heart rate up is a concern, you're not pairing the sets together in any meaningful way, anyway. Consequently the time at which you're using the apparatus doesn't matter, and there's no reason why you should be accorded a stake to it other making your schedule convenient -- and since this advantage comes at the cost of other people's schedules, I don't find that argument persuasive. You can wait your turn again.
Everyone has their own rest interval between sets, but Marty Gallagher (who used to do a lifting chat for the Post online) used to regularly quote Bill Pearl as saying your next set should start between when your breathing returns to normal and when your heartrate does. That always seemed like a good rule of thumb to me.
If your gym is very large, then hey, go nuts. Do whatever routine you like. At the YMCA where I go, though, things are in short supply, and if one person occuppies more than one machine at a time (without a specific fitness reason) it's a major inconvenience to everyone else.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:04 PM
15: I'm really, really, really unfussy. Zero makeup, pretty much ever, and I braid my hair back on days I work out and don't unbraid it or wash it afterwards (I shower, just keep my hair dry). I don't actually recommend my grooming standards to anyone, but no one throws rocks at me in the street.
16: I've just started doing squats rather than a leg-press machine, and am still working with pretty light weights (less than half of what I can press) while I improve my form and balance.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:06 PM
16 - she probably wasn't trying to work on her 1 rep max. Maybe you're just not pushing yourself very hard, what with all that recovery time you're taking and all. :)
Seriously, check out these guys: www.crossfit.com. Insanely tough workouts, generally no "rest" between sets. (In fact the whole workouts are often done 'for time' - complete three sets of x reps of these four exercises, for time, meaning do the whole thing as quickly as possible). You'll take some breaks, sure, but onyl insofar as you need them. And you will be working hard.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:07 PM
6: Poorly phrased. My bad.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:07 PM
Consequently the time at which you're using the apparatus doesn't matter, and there's no reason why you should be accorded a stake to it other making your schedule convenient -- and since this advantage comes at the cost of other people's schedules, I don't find that argument persuasive.
I can see this as a reason that I shouldn't lay claim to two pieces of equipment all to myself, but so long as I don't mind other people working in (which I don't at all, I was just irked by the refusal to return the favor), what's the harm?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:09 PM
Rule of thumb I learned was 30 seconds between sets if one was trying to maximize cardiovascular fitness. 90 seconds extreme to that end, but more to the point, if you're waiting a minute and half intentionally, someone can certainly sneak in, do a quick set, reset the weights, and there you are.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:11 PM
Am I right to think that doing a squat means holding a dumbbell (that's the longer kind, right? and barbel is the shorter kind?) behind your neck, supported by your shoulders, with your hands midway out on the bar, and bending your knees til you are squatting, then straightening your knees? If so:
What do you do with your torso? Do you bend forward at the waist or keep your body vertical? Do you attempt to keep your heels on the floor, or come up onto the balls of your feet? If you try to keep your heels on the floor, how high a priority is this -- do you stop bending your knees as soon as your heels start to come away from the floor?
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:16 PM
Most of the people I see lean forward at the waist, but keep the back flat. Heels remain flat; the motion is like sitting in a chair while reaching across a table.
That said, I don't do squats because I have a very hard time getting the form correct.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:18 PM
My recent experience in gyms is wildly limited, but tom is totally right.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:21 PM
JO: Barbells are the big ones.
LB: I would extraordinarily resent what you did, not because you would inconvenience me timewise, but because you would force me to talk to you. I hate talking to strangers, especially in the gym.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:22 PM
holding a dumbbell (that's the longer kind, right? and barbel is the shorter kind?)
Reversed.
bending your knees til you are squatting, then straightening your knees?
Pretty much.
Do you bend forward at the waist or keep your body vertical?
Bend forward somewhat, but with your back flat.
Do you attempt to keep your heels on the floor, or come up onto the balls of your feet? If you try to keep your heels on the floor, how high a priority is this -- do you stop bending your knees as soon as your heels start to come away from the floor?
You do keep your heels on the floor, and it's quite a high priority -- that's actually a large part of what I'm working on because my flexibility is awful. Always has been.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:23 PM
26: So even asking to work in on the same piece of equipment is an offense? Hrm, I thought I was antisocial.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:25 PM
Thanks -- I'm always getting the two kinds of bells mixed up -- I'll get it one a these days.
When I was doing Tae Kwon Do (which incidentally corresponds closely to the only time in my life that I was physically fit), there was a squatting exercise like that, but without weight. Extremely strenuous without weight, I guess probably even moreso with weight. I really ought to start exercising again, I just have a lot of trouble starting up. And then on top of that, trouble keeping with it once started.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:30 PM
I tend to lean back too far on my squats, keeping my upper body vertical. Can't figure it out without a trainer, and no desire to injure myself with the squats in the meantime.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:31 PM
Did somebody say Tae Kwon Do?
(Sorry, sorry, couldn't contain myself. I at least managed not to bore all of Unfogged with my sisterly bragging.)
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:34 PM
I find that taking quite a wide stance helps (and, of course, starting out with light weights so even if your form isn't perfect you aren't going to hurt yourself). This is one of those pelvic anatomy things -- I get the impression that the stance that works for most men is distinctly narrower than the one that works for me, and I would guess for other women.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:34 PM
JO: bodyweight squats can be great exercise. Just focus on form, and crank out 50 or 100 (or whatever feels right) as quickly as possible. Rest and repeat.
The one piece of squat form most people seem to be forgetting is that you shoudl try to keep for torso as upright as possible. Most people bend over too far. Also, look in a mirror or have someone watch you, because otherwise most people only squat down about 1/4 of the way. You want to go down at least until your thoughts are parallel with the floor.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:36 PM
LB: yes, women typically need a wider squat stance.
Fantastic fitness website for women: http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/index.php
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:39 PM
For "extraordinarily resent" read "be kinda annoyed." I'm somewhat antisocial, and shy with new people. I try to get my wife to make phone calls to anyplace that might require talking to a stranger. I do okay at parties where I know people, but I generally need a fair amount of alone time to make up for it.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:40 PM
Becks -- I was never any good at it -- and I only stayed with it a year or so -- but it did get me in good shape. That year (96 maybe?) and the next year, when I was riding my bicycle a whole lot, were like this weird period where I actually enjoyed exercising and felt comfortable in my body -- a lot of time since then is spent figuring out how to get back there.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:41 PM
until your thoughts are parallel with the floor
This is a truly awesome typo.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:42 PM
I think the correct etiquette in this situation is to say "ooh, look at Miss Thing".
Posted by dsqyared | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:42 PM
Chopper: you sound like a good candidate for working out at home. Probably for working from home, too.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:42 PM
37 - wow, I really wrote that, didn't I? Thighs, obviously.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:47 PM
34: I love that site. (I actually linked it a while back -- wherever the thread was that Armsmasher was worrying about whether lifting weights would make him unattractively bulky.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:47 PM
My brothers actually got started in TKD when I took a parent-child class with them my senior year in high school. They really wanted to take the class but my parents weren't into it so I pretended to be their unwed teenaged mother. There was much whispering from the other moms behind our backs. I could have corrected them but I thought it was hilarious.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:48 PM
33: I cannot keep my thoughts parallel to the floor. They fly off in all directions, esp. at the gym.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:49 PM
oh, so totally pwned!
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:50 PM
I have an elliptical trainer and free weights in my basement. I never use them, though, because there are too many good distractions around the house (books!). I haven't had a gym membership in a few years, but I've actually been thinking about getting one again just to have the distraction-free place to go and not have to talk to anyone.
I can't work out of the house for any number of reasons, including the distractions mentioned above, the fact that I'd have to spend time on the phone, and that the kind of work I do requires lots and lots of face-to-face meetings. I actually do fine with people face-to-face--my comfort level rises dramatically once ice has been broken.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:52 PM
So what we're talking about is a second position parallel grand plie, right? With weights?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:55 PM
I can sympathize as I'm pretty much the same (I'm fine with people I know, but hate talking to strangers). That's part of why I was irritated enough to blog about this -- I thought that asking to work in with someone was a stereotyped enough interaction that it really didn't count as conversing with a stranger. Once I got the refusal, the whole interaction became retroactively embarrassing.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:56 PM
Maybe my form doesn't suck then, if more upright is ideal. The last time I had to do squats seriously (college), I hated how the bar felt on my shoulders.
My thoughts are usually passed out, under the table.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:56 PM
Chopper I was just joking.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:57 PM
46: Pretty much
47: The bar is uncomfortable, especially if, like me, you don't have much in the way of traps. I wrap a towel around it as a cushion. And you should absolutely be as upright as you can be and still retain your balance.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 1:59 PM
I'm dying for the scourge of all us passive-agressive people to tell us how to talk to strangers in the gym.
Posted by John Tingley | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:03 PM
LB, what's the rough difference in what one can leg-press vs. what one do for squats? Leg-press weight - body weight?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:05 PM
I don't think there's a formulaic relationship, but I have the impression that most people can press an awful lot more than they can squat -- the torso muscles stabilizing the weight are the bottleneck. My sense (and I should oh, so not be handing out weightlifting advice) is that if you're moving from leg presses to squats that you should start much, much lighter, and only add weight as you're confident in your ability to do them with good form.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:09 PM
They also have those squat machines that stabilize the bar, it's on slides. Makes it easier to balance.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:17 PM
41- Yes, I recall that now. Funny.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:17 PM
Isn't that true in general of how much you can lift on a machine vs. free weights? I thought it was anyways.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:17 PM
I checked out stumptuous when you first mentioned it, LB. Seems pretty great.
23: Squat form is really tough, but really important if you're going to avoid fucking up your back. But when you do it right, you really do work about half of your body in a single motion. It's pretty amazing. The way I learned: barbell on the shoulders, not the neck. Leg stance is whatever's comfortable and roughly shoulder-width (for me this is a delicate exercise in finding the position that screws up my knees the least). Keep your weight on your heels. Start by sticking your butt out. It feels stupid, but the butt is really the key to the motion (as with so many things). Keep your back straight, and if you've got a mirror, look yourself in the eyes. Descend until the tops of your thighs are parallel to the floor — pause for a second, if you can stand it, to ensure that you aren't using your tendons as springs to help you get back up — then push quickly up off your heels. Ideally without falling backward (might wanna try it without weight first).
I can see this as a reason that I shouldn't lay claim to two pieces of equipment all to myself, but so long as I don't mind other people working in (which I don't at all, I was just irked by the refusal to return the favor), what's the harm?
This makes sense. I guess it's just my own preferences speaking here. Like Chopper, I hate having to interact with other folks at the gym (for one thing, my headphones make it literally impossible to hear them). And when you're splitting sets you feel pressure to use the machine efficiently, artificially altering your rest periods to fill the gaps between the other person's sets. Or at least I do.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:19 PM
Yeah, it is. I was just wondering where to start. The bar is 45. I can easily press 190. Worried that the bar would be too heavy, and then I'd be all crippled.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:19 PM
56 to 53.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:19 PM
First, the fact that you do squats is awesome. Second, the guy was being an ass. What was particularly infuriating was saying "I've only got three more sets." Three sets is fairly standard for the total number of sets one should do for any given exercise. So saying "I've only got three more sets" was akin to saying "go fuck yourself."
"I've only got one more set" would have been an acceptable response, were he then to start the set. Generally, when someone asks to work in, the only acceptable reponses are: (1) "sure," or (2) "I've only got one more set" (then starting that set). I suppose, if it were applicable, (3) "no, on account of I've got shingles," would also be acceptable.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:22 PM
skin condition, or roofing material?
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:25 PM
58: I'd guess you're fine -- you can press about as much as I can, and I didn't have any trouble starting with the bar.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:26 PM
54 - Smith machines are dangerous for squats, because straight up and down isn't really the natural motion. It's close, but just off enough to be wrong in a bad way.
58 - if you're worried about messing up your back or something, that's extremely unlikely to happen just with a bar. (More liekly woudl be that you just used a bar, thought you were doing things right, weren't, added a lot of weight, and then hurt yourself). But if you're really worried you can always start with just a broomstick or pvc pipe or something like that. Great way to work on form with little risk of injury. (And it's not silly or a waste of time! I repeat: body-weight-only squats are great exercise.)
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:26 PM
Oh and BTW Becks -- when I was writing 36 I meant to say something to the effect of "Wow! Good on your brother!" but looking back, I see that I omitted to do so. Very impressive, that.
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:27 PM
I don't think there's a formulaic relationship, but I have the impression that most people can press an awful lot more than they can squat
I think this is partly because of the machines, and partly because people cheat. The weight is usually on a pivot or sled, meaning that ity travels a lot less vertical distance than it would with free weights, so you're doing a lot less work.
Also, some folks are just terrible about cheating on machines. I remember at college there was one guy who would come into the gym, load 45lb plates onto the leg press until he literally couldn't fit any more, then do "presses" that involved him bending his legs eeeever so slightly, then straightening them. It was pretty evident that he was proud of this. The guy couldn't have weighed much more than 150.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:28 PM
roofing material. if you carry that stuff around a weight room, you are not to be messed with, and what you say goes.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:30 PM
Body weight might not be a bad idea. I am worried about back injuries; have a tendency towards them.
The machines stabilize the movement so you don't have to do it yourself.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:33 PM
To 50, google for "manta ray squat" - it's an attachment you put on the bar that makes things much more comfortable and stable. A bit pricey but worth it to me, anyway. I don't know why gyms don't seem to have them on hand as part of their equipment.
Posted by hilker | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:36 PM
everyone should do more squats, especially myself. We are a nation of flat butts. We need sleek, powerful hindquarters to fight the terrorists, and you can't get that on a smith machine. Squats is how we beat the nazis. Few people know that it was Heisenberg who invented the Smith machine -- it was once called the Heisenberg machine, but the name fell out of favor, and some clever ad man sought to "americanize" the monstrosity -- which is why Heisenberg himself is known to have had assymetrical leg strength. The nazis trained on smith machines and so were unable to contend with the strong butted americans on d-day and v-e-day and all the other days.
My point: let's do squats.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:39 PM
I had thought the big beef with machines in general is that they constrain the path of motion for the exercise, thus eliminating the development of all the little tiny muscles that allow you to correct when the weight drifts slightly off course during free weight use. There are a few mucle groups where a machine of some sort is necessary (I'm thinking mainly of lat work, here), but for the most part you're just going to be better off doing free weights for most exercises. (Although I use a bench press machine because I hate asking for spots.) Is this theory no longer in good standing?
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:40 PM
No, I think that's right. At least, that's why I'm in the process of weaning myself off machines and onto free weights. (I can't give up the assisted-chinup machine yet, but I have ambitions.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:42 PM
the theory is right, Chops. And also, most machines allow one side of the body to lift more than the other side (whereas with free weights, the bar would tip) leading to assymetry.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:43 PM
I thought ass-symmetry was the goal?
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:45 PM
70- I'm not sure if you were talking to me or not, but building stabilizer muscles and core strength and improving balance are some of the benefits of free weights over machines. So yes that theory is still in good standing. Smith machines are just bad for squats -- hard on the knees, I think, but maybe the back (I'm not totally sure), because in a natural squatting motion the bar doesn't go straight up and down (which a Smith machine forces).
You can do pullups for lat work. If those are too easy, do them weighted. If those are too easy, do them one-handed. Those won't be too easy.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:46 PM
I am worried about back injuries; have a tendency towards them.
If you start slow, squats might really help with that. Deadlifts, too, although you really really need someone who knows what they're doing to show you how. This precludes me -- I can't avoid doing straight-leg ones for some reason, which I'm told are dangerous but haven't yet caused me grief. So I'll shut up about them, but yeah: after squats, they might be the single-motion lift that works the most muscle at once.
70: that's my understanding, too. But another reason why they have their place: sometimes you can't really exhaust a muscle without its necessary support muscles first becoming tired (pectorals come to mind).
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:47 PM
the goal is beating the nazis, ass-symetry is the means to the end, and it all occurred at the battle of the bulge.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:47 PM
Are pull-ups actually "too easy" for anybody?
Posted by Jeremy Osner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:48 PM
76 is going to cause me to giggle uncontrollably, which makes people look at me funny.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:51 PM
I'd raise my hand, but it's encumbered by my excessive lat muscles, which hang from my shoulders like a cape.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:51 PM
I just started squats. I do them with my trainer and I very nearly fainted last week on what I think was my third set. I think he had forty lbs plus the bar on there. Also, he has me sitting onto a seat to make sure I am going down far enough. So I still have quite a ways to go. Interestingly, I still can't press much beyond the bar. Sometimes 10-20 extra lbs. and that is when I have a spotter. I've visited stumptuous like 50 times this week for inspiration. My trainer swears I'll start to see progress soon.
Posted by Newyorquina | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:51 PM
Now that we're discussing weight room etiquette, isn't it high time we revisit the topic of locker room etiquette? (And to think, back in the day, a post like that got a grand total of four comments.)
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:52 PM
80: Hey, neighbor! I'm up in Inwood, not too far from you.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:55 PM
Locker-room etiquette! Well, it's not really etiquette, so much as a story. Not that kind of story. Let me start over.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:56 PM
Comment #4 on the locker-room thread was awesome.
Posted by Barbar | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 2:59 PM
Nice. Northern Manhattan is in the house! The cradle of civilization, as it were. Although I work out downtown. I've never heard tell of a good gym up that way.
Posted by Newyorquina | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:01 PM
I was just about to say how much I miss Erica's insightful w1ttici5m5.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:02 PM
What was the answer to Ogged's question? Has locker room etiquette changed? If so, why? I'd speculate that it's not that more men are openly gay in locker rooms, but that they're less homophobic/less afraid of being perceived as gay, and natural curiosity comes out.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:02 PM
#10 has it right, though I can understand why you were annoyed.
Posted by Andrew | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:03 PM
There's a man who comes into the gym roughly at the same time I do who is both very old and very hard of hearing, and we've struck up a few interesting conversations over the last few months. The funny thing is that he always picks up the conversation at exactly the point we left off, even if two weeks have passed; he must be remarkable at parties. We've talked about Russian novels and especially gardening at length (not exactly gymsmanlike, but whatever).
The other funny thing is not specific to this old guy: All old men like to spend approximately 60% of their time at the gym in the buff, unconcerned with the fact that their bodies serve as harbingers of horrible days to come for the rest of us. Which sets us up for the scence with which I was greeted the other day: having walked into the locker room and turned the corner, I saw my old friend for the first time in a while, naked as the day he was born, screaming at me, "I RECENTLY FIND MYSELF VERY INTERESTED IN ASEXUAL PROPAGATION."
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:04 PM
81: I'd say this is frowned upon.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:07 PM
Armsmasher, that was awesome.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:09 PM
it is precisely because they know their bodies give offense that old men enjoy nudity to the extent that they do. They have to spend each day in that body, and so they will inflict its image upon whoever they can. And they enjoy saunas. There was an old man wearing goggles whose image is seared upon my retina.
As far as the change in ettiquette, I'm pretty sure that was just another example of ogged's paranoid homophobia.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:13 PM
I've decided to develop this old man's strength early.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:15 PM
I've decided to develop this old man's strength
I don't think he was that strong. All he did was play knick-knack indiscriminately.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:17 PM
No, no, the old man gave ogged a bone.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:20 PM
Always with the innuendo.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:22 PM
This old man came, rolling home.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:25 PM
From the linked Ogged post: People, if you have to look, do it when I'm washing my face in the shower, not as I'm walking toward you, looking you in the eye.
Do guys really still have those open showers where everybody's together? I figured those would have been phased out by now and men would have the nice little stalls like the girls do. Is it just that guys are used to them or are gyms afraid that if they give the guys private stalls they'll have...policing problems?
Also, what are you doing making eye contact with other people in the locker room while you're nekkid anyway?
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:33 PM
Offending Ogged?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:45 PM
98: Do you guys seriously have stalls?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:47 PM
She means Ogged, doesn't she?
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:47 PM
Yup. We are modest and feminine.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:49 PM
Gawddammit! We always get fucked on bathrooms and locker rooms! Why o why can't the patriarchy extend to bathroom and locker room construction?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:54 PM
My gym has open showers. If the women have stalls I'm suing for discrimination. Incidentally, there's this guy who's often there who likes to really clean his cock when he showers at the gym. I mean, he really cleans it vigorously. He makes something of a scene. I don't know if anyone's ever bothered to say anything to management.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:54 PM
Sadly, the practice of putting cute little couches in women's bathrooms is going by the wayside as designers figure out that we really don't faint all that much since we cut back on the corsets.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 3:57 PM
I'm told that until recently (?) Texas law required that there be couches in women's bathrooms, in case of faintings. (This came up in a discussion spurred by the following: Some furniture was moved from the corridor into the bathroom, because they were waxing the hall or something. I walked into the men's bathroom and was disconcerted, because the unfamiliar look made me think I was in the wrong one.)
Anyway, bathroom construction is a traditional tool of the patriarchy.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 4:40 PM
Anyway, bathroom construction is a traditional tool of the patriarchy.
That's untrue. If women would just pee in the sink as the need arises, as we do, there wouldn't be such long lines. Also useful - those little straw things that let them pee standing up, so they can cross streams as necessary.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 5:01 PM
The proper response would have been to wait until he starts his next set of squats, then give him a massive wedgie and run like hell.
Posted by Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 5:29 PM
As far as the change in ettiquette, I'm pretty sure that was just another example of ogged's paranoid homophobia.
related.
(most frequently linked-to webpage in all of unfoggeddom? I suspect so.)
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 7:43 PM
My guess is that Labs' link in comment 3 of the locker-room etiquette thread was the same article, but I wasn't willing to click over based on the URL. IOW, yes.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 7:56 PM
That link redirects to a placeholder now, but I suspect the same.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 7:59 PM
'Round here, we'd call him a Dickhead.
Posted by CJS | Link to this comment | 02-22-06 8:42 PM
In my gym, there are signs on all the machines saying that you are NOT to hog the machine between sets if someone else is waiting, and not to be offended if an instructor asks you to move off. I'm generally there when it's not that busy so people usually do stay on the machines esp. if they only have one set to go. I do this myself but if someone asked me to alternate I would have to oblige them.
PS How do some commenters post w/o a link every time to their email address? I'd like to minimise spam.
Posted by emr | Link to this comment | 02-23-06 5:16 AM
They just leave the "Email Address" box empty, I think.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 02-23-06 6:44 AM
Yes, leave it empty and check 'Remember info?'.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-23-06 6:46 AM
Thanks!
Posted by emr | Link to this comment | 02-23-06 6:59 AM
113: It's relatively easy and quick to readjust a machine to a particular weight and height-setting. Not so when you're doing sets of squats, and the other person is working with very different amounts of weight.
Posted by Andrew | Link to this comment | 02-23-06 7:47 AM
Or, if you don't want spam but do want people to be able to contact you, do some version of the 'emr at hotmail dot com' trick, for whatever your address is.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-23-06 8:04 AM
I have come to suspect that harvesting bots are on to that one. My new comcast e-mail gets a ton of spam, and the only placeI've posted it is here and a few other blogs, always with text like 'nospam' in the middle.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 02-23-06 9:15 AM
I did squats with just the bar and I didn't die!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 02-25-06 5:00 PM
Woohoo!
I on the other hand, keep on getting sick, and have barely been working out for the last month. (I miss a workout because I'm busy, then sick, then busy again, then sick again...) I'm vainly hoping that lifting once a week, which is about all I've been managing since January, will keep me from losing too much ground for when I get back into it.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-25-06 6:05 PM