That's totally true, except that his name is Taylor. I've held back from saying he'll win until now because the show is so obviously boosting Chris, and because I couldn't be sure my fandom was obscuring my view of reality. But at this point I'd put money on him winning.
Better that than screaming into the camera with his dead, black eyes: "Tell me, have you ever really really ever loved a woman? Because if not, I'll gnaw out your liver." And better still than imagining yourself as a Mariahlike diva, while cleavage and melisma are the only things that distract the masses from your utter inability sing on-key in your upper register.
But that comment didn't come from an AI hater. It came from an AI lover who's bitter that America doesn't share his elitist, latte sipping Chris and Kat fandom.
I've only caught the show twice, but Katharine didn't stay on pitch on either of them. And it's wasn't the high parts, either, and my ear is several years out of tune. She's pretty, but I thought it was supposed to be a singing competition.
It's not really a singing competion; it's a performing competition/popularity contest. Nevertheless, Katharine's pitch problems are serious and frequent enough that lookin' purty is not going to save her in the end.
(Further, it's a popularity contest whose results are heavily manipulated by the producers in an effort to control the image of the show, though I think, try as they might, they just can't stop Taylor.)
(Further, it's a popularity contest whose results are heavily manipulated by the producers in an effort to control the image of the show, though I think, try as they might, they just can't stop Taylor.)
What makes you think they aren't manipulating things to make it seem as if he's going to win despite their manipulations?
I will admit that I keep a closer eye on people who loudly declare that they don't like any hip hop. Lambasting publicly them as racists, however, is a special kind of obnoxious.
I think that much about a person's racism, or lack thereof, can be gleaned from their favorite American Idol contestant. Have I mentioned how much I miss Paris Bennett?
Wow, what a weird article. So noting that some hip-hop plays into several racist stereotypes is racist? Well, okay then, but I've heard that criticism from a black newspaper columnist.
I'm not much of a hip-hop fan for the same reason I'm not a country/western fan or a folk music fan. It's the audial equivalent of playing dress-up.
Liking two years of early hip hop is better than nothing.
A categorical refusal to listen to hip hop is, to me, just a little suspect. Maybe you get away with it if you're over 40 and can claim the "you young people listen to noise and get off my lawn!" excuse.
Or, you're ensconsed in your own musical world. I know a lot of young theater folk who listen to nothing but show tunes. These people are in their twenties.
I knew a guy who was actually a space alien. He had space-alien thoughts: that's how I knew. Once tried to argue at length that jazz wasn't music because "they're just making it up". He was wearing that green sweater he always wore. I think it reminded him of space.
I don't mean much except that I like smidgens of most music, but getting into country-western or hip-hop or folk music would feel very inauthentic to me because it's not something I run across every day. What do I know about cowboy boots or chasing horses or growing up black or faerie-round-the-fey renaissance festival?
There's something weird about me, about as boring as possible, mooning about where all the cowboys have gone, is all I'm saying.
No, I think Cala's right; there is potentially something weird about getting seriously involved in listening to music that comes from a very different social milieu than your own. There's something, I don't know, exploitative about taking elements of someone else's identity and grafting them onto your own. Not that you can't listen to exotic music in a casual way, it's just when you get sort of obsessed with it that the problems start.
when you get sort of obsessed with it that the problems start
But that statement holds true no matter what we're talking about, right? I mean, why doesn't that logic hold for Bach or Dostoevsky? 18c Austria and 19c Russia are both pretty far removed from my social milieu, but nobody would consider it dress-up to be deeply into one or the other.
I'd be stuck with Gregorian chants and bubblegum pop.
What teofilo says in 56. I would feel uncomfortable identifying myself as a fan of something so far outside my background that it's like I think subcultures are something you just buy and put in your iPod.
(I should probably point out I'm not a serious music fan, and I listen to whatever I run across, not really identifying as a fan of any genre.)
18c Austria and 19c Russia are both pretty far removed from my social milieu, but nobody would consider it dress-up to be deeply into one or the other.
Actually, I think I would consider it dress-up to be deeply into those things, but you may be using a different value for "deeply."
(I should probably point out I'm not a serious music fan, and I listen to whatever I run across, not really identifying as a fan of any genre.)
By "exotic music" I just mean music that comes from a different social context from your own. For Cala, hip-hop is exotic; for someone who grew up in the 'hood, it isn't (but, say, punk rock is).
I think pop music's a different category, apo, because it's supposed to speak to your immediate experience in addition to being aesthetically enjoyable.
No, but an unbeliever who dressed up as a monk because like, he got in touch with his spirtual side after hearing Handel's Messiah would be a bit weird.
I just listened to one, and am currently listening to another, album made before I was born! I am so out of my milieu! And rockist, if I understand the term correctly.
Bach's genius was to design his concertos to gather instantaneous must and irrelevancy as soon as bow touched string, thus making them available for everyone to enjoy.
I think Cala and I are talking about a level of identification with music that goes well beyond ordinary aesthetic appreciation, which may explain why people don't seem to be getting what we're saying.
A couple of months ago, my roommate was teaching some kind of class* at the boys club in Harlem. Besides learning new ways to call people cracker, at one point one of his students said, "I bet you like Talib Kweli, Common, [I forget what else, there were at least two more]." And my roommate said, "how do you know?"
And his student said, "That's white people rap." True story.
*I really don't know what the class was, maybe partially SAT prep, but I don't think that was all, or even most of it.
No, but an unbeliever who dressed up as a monk because like, he got in touch with his spirtual side after hearing Handel's Messiah would be a bit weird.
That's because the Messiah isn't all that. And, St. Paul would like a word with you sans bat.
Bach's genius was to design his concertos to gather instantaneous must and irrelevancy
getting into country-western or hip-hop or folk music would feel very inauthentic to me because it's not something I run across every day
Could it just be that these genres don't particularly appeal to you? And therefore any attempt to get into them would be more of a conscious "In order to be a well-rounded person, I really ought to learn more about genre x," (which would indeed be inauthentic) than a heartfelt "Ooh! I like that! Where can I find more of that!"
I don't mean that everyone should only stay with the culture they have or grew up in when buying music. Because that's pretty retarded and impossible, to boot.
Just that there's something weird about a rich white kid so into hip-hop that he thinks he understands what it's like to grow up in the ghetto, or because he reads some manga and drinks green tea that he's a real otaku and understands the soul of the samurai, or if he's into 'Kabalah' and thinks you do it by wearing beads.
It's a gift that Bach was so clever, for he is now available for me to enjoy without posing! Though even if Bach had lacked this element of genius, we would perhaps be safe if we made sure to sell some indulgences every time we listened.
Seriously, have you people never known middle-class white kids who get way, way, way into hip-hop and start dressing and acting like the rappers they listen to? That's the kind of identification I'm talking about. Country is trendy right now, so you get some of the same kind of behavior, but not to quite the same degree.
JM's "categorical refusal to listen to hip-hop arouses suspicion" is 1. not the same thing as "disliking hip-hop arouses suspicion" and 2. itself suspicious.
Part of the issue here could be that people who aren't that into music generally (like, say, me) tend to identify types of music more with the kinds of people who listen to them and less with the inherent aesthetic qualities of the music itself, whereas for people who really like music (like, say, everyone in this thread except me and Cala, apparently) it's the other way around.
95: Fair enough. It comes across a lot stronger than I intended -- if I were to describe myself as a fan of a musical genre, I'd probably be using the word pretty strongly.
>I think Cala's right; there is potentially something weird about getting seriously involved in listening to music that comes from a very different social milieu than your own.
I strongly disagree. Music is music. If you like hip-hop you should listen to hip-hop; if you like show tunes you should listen to show tunes. Plus, social milieu's don't produce music, people do.
A woman I know came out as a lesbian after developing an obsession with Shania Twain. I think I was more surprised by the admission that she listened to country.
I keep a closer eye on people who loudly declare that they don't like any hip hop.
It's more disappointment for me. I'm always disappointed in music fans (not people like Cala or teofilo) who declare their uninterest in hip hop. I'm loathe to accuse them of racism, because that frequently isn't the case, but it does point to a sort of dull incuriousness. But I also feel the same way about pop. I don't care if you're uninterested in Rihanna, but I might roll my eyes if I hear remarks about "commercialized pap." I don't at all agree that there's anything weird about trying to engage with music that's totally out of your own social milieu. Music is largely a performance art to start with and performatively I can be a cowboy as easily as I can be a blue grass hillbilly or a rock 'n roller or a bhangra DJ. It's all about the sounds; and it's all make-believe, anyway.
I'm not a huge fan of Merritt--I think he's something of a pompous ass. But I think he was unfairly maligned at the EMP conference. A few bloggers took offhand comments he made at a panel discussion and turned them into a racist tirade. That's not cool. For anyone who cares, this discussion includes eye-witness accounts of the event.
My earlier comment really arises out of my experience with a fairly successful local-circuit DJ I used to know quite well who in his collection of thousands of electronic albums had almost no music that could described as being influenced by African-American music. Even the house stuff seemed to be filtered through Belgium. I thought "huh, it's too bad he's missing out on this great music" until he matter-of-factly dropped a few horrifically racist comments into casual conversation. More than once.
But that's a stark instance of someone who was serious about music, pretended to be eclectic and wasn't, and who actually held a lot of latent of latent racism: a single, weird case that I shouldn't generalize too much.
There was some horseshit on the news this morning about someone getting voted off the Idol. Was it Taylor? Why no update, Tia? How else are we supposed to learn about these things??
I saw Simon Cowell on the Today show this morning and he said Tyler was, at a minimum, guaranteed to be in the top 2.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 7:52 AM
That's totally true, except that his name is Taylor. I've held back from saying he'll win until now because the show is so obviously boosting Chris, and because I couldn't be sure my fandom was obscuring my view of reality. But at this point I'd put money on him winning.
Yay, America!
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 7:56 AM
Who? The next what?
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:02 AM
Trevor woo hook 'em!
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:04 AM
Gah, I knew his name was Taylor. I swear I left my brain at home today.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:13 AM
It's great, because I like my American Idol to constantly shimmy for the cheap seats and mug like a perfect asshole.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:14 AM
And I meant to say "wasn't obscuring." I save up all my brainpower to shore up my awesome Idol prediction powers.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:16 AM
Taylor Hicks is totally gay.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:27 AM
Better that than screaming into the camera with his dead, black eyes: "Tell me, have you ever really really ever loved a woman? Because if not, I'll gnaw out your liver." And better still than imagining yourself as a Mariahlike diva, while cleavage and melisma are the only things that distract the masses from your utter inability sing on-key in your upper register.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:27 AM
9 to 6.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:29 AM
It's great, because I like my American Idol to constantly shimmy for the cheap seats and mug like a perfect asshole.
As a hater of all things American Idol, that comment warms my heart.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:31 AM
But that comment didn't come from an AI hater. It came from an AI lover who's bitter that America doesn't share his elitist, latte sipping Chris and Kat fandom.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:36 AM
Yeah, but I'll take what I can get. Thank God I have no idea who Chris and Kat are.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:42 AM
I've only caught the show twice, but Katharine didn't stay on pitch on either of them. And it's wasn't the high parts, either, and my ear is several years out of tune. She's pretty, but I thought it was supposed to be a singing competition.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:54 AM
14: Not that it changes anything, but the most marketable voice does not always equal the best voice.
Posted by Sam K | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:56 AM
I actually have $10 riding on Elliot, from almost 3 months ago, before it became so obvious that he can't dance.
Posted by Sam K | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:58 AM
It's not really a singing competion; it's a performing competition/popularity contest. Nevertheless, Katharine's pitch problems are serious and frequent enough that lookin' purty is not going to save her in the end.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:00 AM
Your mom. That goes for everyone.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:02 AM
(Further, it's a popularity contest whose results are heavily manipulated by the producers in an effort to control the image of the show, though I think, try as they might, they just can't stop Taylor.)
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:03 AM
And why the hate on lattes? Lattes are tasty damnit.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:15 AM
It is pretty heavily manipulated. Doesn't it always seem that someone has a 'moment' just when they need it?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:22 AM
(Further, it's a popularity contest whose results are heavily manipulated by the producers in an effort to control the image of the show, though I think, try as they might, they just can't stop Taylor.)
What makes you think they aren't manipulating things to make it seem as if he's going to win despite their manipulations?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:28 AM
Ben just blew my mind.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:32 AM
Ben just blew me.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:34 AM
Because I think they think he is unmarketable; he doesn't seem to them like an a good ambassador for the show, because he's not current.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:35 AM
25 to 22. I don't know why Ben blew Apo.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:36 AM
I'm trying to butch it up.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:39 AM
I don't know why Ben blew Apo.
Sure you do.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:53 AM
Ben, in my experience blowing Apo doesn't really up your butch cred. You'd be way better off buggering him, like the rest of us do.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 10:25 AM
in my experience
!!
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 11:52 AM
I guess the secret's out now. Getting blown by B totally ups your butch cred, FWIW.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 11:57 AM
Yes, because I am the ne plus ultra of femininity, don'tcha know.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 12:02 PM
Jesus, have you Magnetic Fields fans heard about this ridiculousness?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 12:44 PM
Joe, the thing you have to remember about that is that SF/J (or S/FJ or whatever) is a silly git.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 12:54 PM
I know, I know, but dude.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 12:55 PM
I will admit that I keep a closer eye on people who loudly declare that they don't like any hip hop. Lambasting publicly them as racists, however, is a special kind of obnoxious.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:02 PM
I think that much about a person's racism, or lack thereof, can be gleaned from their favorite American Idol contestant. Have I mentioned how much I miss Paris Bennett?
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:09 PM
But J/M, Merritt even said he likes early hip hop.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:12 PM
Wow, what a weird article. So noting that some hip-hop plays into several racist stereotypes is racist? Well, okay then, but I've heard that criticism from a black newspaper columnist.
I'm not much of a hip-hop fan for the same reason I'm not a country/western fan or a folk music fan. It's the audial equivalent of playing dress-up.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:21 PM
Liking two years of early hip hop is better than nothing.
A categorical refusal to listen to hip hop is, to me, just a little suspect. Maybe you get away with it if you're over 40 and can claim the "you young people listen to noise and get off my lawn!" excuse.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:23 PM
Or, you're ensconsed in your own musical world. I know a lot of young theater folk who listen to nothing but show tunes. These people are in their twenties.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:26 PM
They're very young and very old hat. Everybody has to go through stages like that.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:28 PM
Tia hates black people.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:29 PM
I mean, will the real Slim Shady please stand up?
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:30 PM
Oh, wait.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:31 PM
I'm not much of a hip-hop fan for the same reason I'm not a country/western fan or a folk music fan. It's the audial equivalent of playing dress-up.
???
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:34 PM
I wasn't going to touch that one either.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:35 PM
Only rock music will be played under the restored Calaphate!
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:37 PM
It's the audial equivalent of playing dress-up.
That's why I only listen to nature sounds and radio static.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:40 PM
I think Cala means listening to those genres would be like assuming inauthentic identity.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:42 PM
I knew a guy who was actually a space alien. He had space-alien thoughts: that's how I knew. Once tried to argue at length that jazz wasn't music because "they're just making it up". He was wearing that green sweater he always wore. I think it reminded him of space.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:45 PM
Cala can avoid the authenticity problem by listening to underground hip-hop, or as I like to call it, "hip-hop for pretentious white people."
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:46 PM
I don't mean much except that I like smidgens of most music, but getting into country-western or hip-hop or folk music would feel very inauthentic to me because it's not something I run across every day. What do I know about cowboy boots or chasing horses or growing up black or faerie-round-the-fey renaissance festival?
There's something weird about me, about as boring as possible, mooning about where all the cowboys have gone, is all I'm saying.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:48 PM
53: That would make more sense if you were saying you didn't perform that music.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:50 PM
Does that mean I'm stuck with hymns? Fuck, that really sucks.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:53 PM
No, I think Cala's right; there is potentially something weird about getting seriously involved in listening to music that comes from a very different social milieu than your own. There's something, I don't know, exploitative about taking elements of someone else's identity and grafting them onto your own. Not that you can't listen to exotic music in a casual way, it's just when you get sort of obsessed with it that the problems start.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:54 PM
when you get sort of obsessed with it that the problems start
But that statement holds true no matter what we're talking about, right? I mean, why doesn't that logic hold for Bach or Dostoevsky? 18c Austria and 19c Russia are both pretty far removed from my social milieu, but nobody would consider it dress-up to be deeply into one or the other.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:59 PM
I'd be stuck with Gregorian chants and bubblegum pop.
What teofilo says in 56. I would feel uncomfortable identifying myself as a fan of something so far outside my background that it's like I think subcultures are something you just buy and put in your iPod.
(I should probably point out I'm not a serious music fan, and I listen to whatever I run across, not really identifying as a fan of any genre.)
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:01 PM
exotic music
Double plus what?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:03 PM
I had to stop singing Bach because Lutherans didn't appreciate my getting all up in that bitch.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:03 PM
18c Austria and 19c Russia are both pretty far removed from my social milieu, but nobody would consider it dress-up to be deeply into one or the other.
Actually, I think I would consider it dress-up to be deeply into those things, but you may be using a different value for "deeply."
(I should probably point out I'm not a serious music fan, and I listen to whatever I run across, not really identifying as a fan of any genre.)
Me too.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:04 PM
Bridgeplate is my homeboy.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:05 PM
I don't listen to music because musicians are outside of my social milieu.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:05 PM
By "exotic music" I just mean music that comes from a different social context from your own. For Cala, hip-hop is exotic; for someone who grew up in the 'hood, it isn't (but, say, punk rock is).
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:06 PM
Dude, it's 18th-century Germany.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:06 PM
There was no 18th-century Germany. How dare you impose your post-unification terms on the exotic, 18th century other?
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:09 PM
I think pop music's a different category, apo, because it's supposed to speak to your immediate experience in addition to being aesthetically enjoyable.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:09 PM
That's kind of you, Jizzoe.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:10 PM
Sacred music was supposed to speak to one's immediate experience. That hasn't prevented UNBELIEVERS from enjoying it.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:12 PM
This conversation is full of all kinds of crazy.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:15 PM
That's a good point, eb. Where did the Saxons and Prussians get off pretending to understand Bach's Thueringian mystery?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:16 PM
No, but an unbeliever who dressed up as a monk because like, he got in touch with his spirtual side after hearing Handel's Messiah would be a bit weird.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:16 PM
I just listened to one, and am currently listening to another, album made before I was born! I am so out of my milieu! And rockist, if I understand the term correctly.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:16 PM
Bach's genius was to design his concertos to gather instantaneous must and irrelevancy as soon as bow touched string, thus making them available for everyone to enjoy.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:17 PM
The thing about most rock is, if you haven't done heroin, you just don't know.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:19 PM
I think Cala and I are talking about a level of identification with music that goes well beyond ordinary aesthetic appreciation, which may explain why people don't seem to be getting what we're saying.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:19 PM
Dude, you're at, like, a whole other level!
Teach me to fly.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:20 PM
65: Obviously, I'm not deeply into Bach.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:21 PM
Inject me, Joe. I'm ready.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:21 PM
hip-hop for pretentious white people
A couple of months ago, my roommate was teaching some kind of class* at the boys club in Harlem. Besides learning new ways to call people cracker, at one point one of his students said, "I bet you like Talib Kweli, Common, [I forget what else, there were at least two more]." And my roommate said, "how do you know?"
And his student said, "That's white people rap." True story.
*I really don't know what the class was, maybe partially SAT prep, but I don't think that was all, or even most of it.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:21 PM
exotic music
The sitar is usually a dead giveaway.
No, but an unbeliever who dressed up as a monk because like, he got in touch with his spirtual side after hearing Handel's Messiah would be a bit weird.
That's because the Messiah isn't all that. And, St. Paul would like a word with you sans bat.
Bach's genius was to design his concertos to gather instantaneous must and irrelevancy
Sufjan, now Bach? Do you even like music?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:22 PM
The thing about most rock is, if you haven't done heroin, you just don't know.
Dude, rock is made of cocaine.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:22 PM
getting into country-western or hip-hop or folk music would feel very inauthentic to me because it's not something I run across every day
Could it just be that these genres don't particularly appeal to you? And therefore any attempt to get into them would be more of a conscious "In order to be a well-rounded person, I really ought to learn more about genre x," (which would indeed be inauthentic) than a heartfelt "Ooh! I like that! Where can I find more of that!"
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:24 PM
Inject me, Joe. I'm ready.
Tia, it's been my understanding that my script for our "doctor game" would remain private.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:24 PM
74: I now understand the Taylor Hicks thing.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:25 PM
Lost my background,
What'll I do?
Skip a milieu, my darlin'.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:26 PM
75 helps me understand Taylor Hicks, too.
Posted by Sam K | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:27 PM
I don't mean that everyone should only stay with the culture they have or grew up in when buying music. Because that's pretty retarded and impossible, to boot.
Just that there's something weird about a rich white kid so into hip-hop that he thinks he understands what it's like to grow up in the ghetto, or because he reads some manga and drinks green tea that he's a real otaku and understands the soul of the samurai, or if he's into 'Kabalah' and thinks you do it by wearing beads.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:28 PM
Ok, but that's not about not liking music, that's just about not liking douchebags.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:29 PM
I think Cala and I are talking about a level of identification with music that goes well beyond ordinary aesthetic appreciation
Oh, you mean wiggers.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:29 PM
It's a gift that Bach was so clever, for he is now available for me to enjoy without posing! Though even if Bach had lacked this element of genius, we would perhaps be safe if we made sure to sell some indulgences every time we listened.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:29 PM
Seriously, have you people never known middle-class white kids who get way, way, way into hip-hop and start dressing and acting like the rappers they listen to? That's the kind of identification I'm talking about. Country is trendy right now, so you get some of the same kind of behavior, but not to quite the same degree.
(On preview, what Cala said in 88.)
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:30 PM
Lu, lu,
skip a millieu
lu, lu
skip a millieu!
eb, that pwns, and it's now stuck in my head.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:33 PM
that's not about not liking music, that's just about not liking douchebags.
Joe, I thought we agreed that the script for our "doctor game" would remain private.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:33 PM
Yes, but 39 just says "fan".
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:34 PM
Get off my beads.
Posted by Samurai Wigger | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:34 PM
I said liking, not licking.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:34 PM
JM's "categorical refusal to listen to hip-hop arouses suspicion" is 1. not the same thing as "disliking hip-hop arouses suspicion" and 2. itself suspicious.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:34 PM
95 posted before reading 93. I withdraw my nitpick.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:36 PM
Part of the issue here could be that people who aren't that into music generally (like, say, me) tend to identify types of music more with the kinds of people who listen to them and less with the inherent aesthetic qualities of the music itself, whereas for people who really like music (like, say, everyone in this thread except me and Cala, apparently) it's the other way around.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:36 PM
95: Fair enough. It comes across a lot stronger than I intended -- if I were to describe myself as a fan of a musical genre, I'd probably be using the word pretty strongly.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:36 PM
middle-class white kids who get way, way, way into hip-hop and start dressing and acting like the rappers
Okay, maybe you have a point.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:37 PM
Probably because I'm not into music much, lately.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:39 PM
Country is trendy right now?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:39 PM
This thread has totally blown my mental image of Cala as sporting serious dreadlocks.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:41 PM
I hear the kids are into some fellow named Billy Ray Cyrus.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:41 PM
"Wigger" is deprecated. May I suggest "Kornfeld" as a substitute?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:42 PM
some fellow named Billy Ray Cyrus
Isn't he the harmonica-playing guy on American Idol?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:42 PM
I probably am less into music than most on this thread; I just don't usually interpret fan, casually said, to be a very strong identification.
Also, the 7 May entry seems relevant.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:43 PM
105: Ahem
Posted by Sam K | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:44 PM
98: Whereas Wolfson is merely generally suspect.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:45 PM
yeah, I rewrote that comment before I posted.. it was something more akin to 'strongly identify as a fan', not just 'listen to and enjoy music.'
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:45 PM
105: Fuck!
Posted by Sam K | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:45 PM
You just feel the need to project scorn on Taylor, apo, because you know that as a non-SEX GOD you can't really identify with his music.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:46 PM
I might be able to identify with his music, but it's hard for me to say since I've only watched one episode of AI and that was last season.
Just wasn't my milieu.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:48 PM
You find him sexy-sexy? He's a sort of silvery teddybear.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:48 PM
Lyle Lovett's blanket amnesty probably covers n00b country fans, too.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:48 PM
I on the other hand, do not presume anything but the facts in evidence when adjudging myself utterly worthy of Taylor fandom.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:49 PM
I would certainly rather sleep with Taylor than any other American Idol contestant.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:55 PM
What about judges?
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:56 PM
Joe, you LB, some things are private!
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:56 PM
I'm never going to trust you again.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:57 PM
Pardon?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:57 PM
LB = little bastard perhaps?
Posted by Sam K | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:58 PM
Linebacker. Drymala is the true renaissance man.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:59 PM
Heh.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:59 PM
You are a different kind of LB, LB.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 2:59 PM
Tia, WMYBSALBA?
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:00 PM
18 Your mom. That goes for everyone.
Even ogged?
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:15 PM
Ogged's mom goes for everyone.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:19 PM
Maybe you get away with it if you're over 40 and can claim the "you young people listen to noise and get off my lawn!" excuse.
Here's what those people listen to.
Posted by P/mp M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:20 PM
>I think Cala's right; there is potentially something weird about getting seriously involved in listening to music that comes from a very different social milieu than your own.
I strongly disagree. Music is music. If you like hip-hop you should listen to hip-hop; if you like show tunes you should listen to show tunes. Plus, social milieu's don't produce music, people do.
Here is a stupid Slate article about Bob Marley.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:26 PM
Dude, it's "milieux."
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:28 PM
I'm banning myself now.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:28 PM
Ogged's mom has cancer, asshole.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:31 PM
Uh, and this. Maybe it would be better to clock out for the day.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:36 PM
135: No, you misread the post. (Not that I didn't do the same.) Ogged's mom is AFAIK fine.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:40 PM
137: No, I was playing off that misreading, and, uh, Ogged's cancer. No worries, I'll ban myself on my way out.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:42 PM
135 made me laugh out loud. So did the comment linked in 136.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:43 PM
This is going to be the best in-joke ever, I can feel it.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:52 PM
As in: "Is he dating anyone?"
"Not for awhile. In fact, he's just 'lost a kidney', IIKWIM."
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 3:59 PM
We can all only aspire to Ogged's level of commitment to this site. The lengths he'll go for blog fodder.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 4:11 PM
I know, this totally ups the ante.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 4:30 PM
first google hit for "saddest story ever told"
second google hit for "saddest story ever told"
I think that it is just a coincidence.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 4:30 PM
If the blog really needs it, I think someone should volunteer to get pregnant and accidentally break their water with a vibrator. Apo?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 4:34 PM
144: Wow, that second one is so funky.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 4:37 PM
A woman I know came out as a lesbian after developing an obsession with Shania Twain. I think I was more surprised by the admission that she listened to country.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 4:56 PM
this totally ups the ante.
Sure does, Mr. Wussy Colonoscopy.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 5:06 PM
Speaking of vibrators.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 5:14 PM
Apo?
I'm afraid the best I could do is break somebody else's water with a vibrator.
But I'm willing to do my part.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 5:24 PM
I keep a closer eye on people who loudly declare that they don't like any hip hop.
It's more disappointment for me. I'm always disappointed in music fans (not people like Cala or teofilo) who declare their uninterest in hip hop. I'm loathe to accuse them of racism, because that frequently isn't the case, but it does point to a sort of dull incuriousness. But I also feel the same way about pop. I don't care if you're uninterested in Rihanna, but I might roll my eyes if I hear remarks about "commercialized pap." I don't at all agree that there's anything weird about trying to engage with music that's totally out of your own social milieu. Music is largely a performance art to start with and performatively I can be a cowboy as easily as I can be a blue grass hillbilly or a rock 'n roller or a bhangra DJ. It's all about the sounds; and it's all make-believe, anyway.
I'm not a huge fan of Merritt--I think he's something of a pompous ass. But I think he was unfairly maligned at the EMP conference. A few bloggers took offhand comments he made at a panel discussion and turned them into a racist tirade. That's not cool. For anyone who cares, this discussion includes eye-witness accounts of the event.
Posted by Paul | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:01 PM
Ok, I've unbanned myself.
My earlier comment really arises out of my experience with a fairly successful local-circuit DJ I used to know quite well who in his collection of thousands of electronic albums had almost no music that could described as being influenced by African-American music. Even the house stuff seemed to be filtered through Belgium. I thought "huh, it's too bad he's missing out on this great music" until he matter-of-factly dropped a few horrifically racist comments into casual conversation. More than once.
But that's a stark instance of someone who was serious about music, pretended to be eclectic and wasn't, and who actually held a lot of latent of latent racism: a single, weird case that I shouldn't generalize too much.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:26 PM
152: I'll bet he had a wicked extended dance remix of "The Saddest Story Ever Told".
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-11-06 8:20 AM
(the one from the second link, that is)
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-11-06 8:21 AM
There was some horseshit on the news this morning about someone getting voted off the Idol. Was it Taylor? Why no update, Tia? How else are we supposed to learn about these things??
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-11-06 11:18 AM