I think they dropped off the radar, but I'm not sure. The deal is that if your party gets X votes in the gubernatorial election (I can't remember what X is), you get a line on all ballots for the next four years, and so your endorsement is valuable. The Liberals went pretty right-wing a while back, and I believe, though I wouldn't swear to it, that they missed the cutoff and no longer have a ballot line -- maybe not for the last eight years.
If there's a left equivalent of the NY Conservative party, it's the Working Families party; they have a ballot line and mostly endorse Democrats, but run their own candidates at the lower levels. I generally vote for the D candidate on the WF line.
I generally vote for the D candidate on the WF line.
That's what I did too. Basically your vote goes to the Dem. candidate, but it tells them that it's because you (and they) support the WFP's agenda. I wish Texas voting allowed something like that.
To answer my own question, Wikipedia says that the Liberals lost their line in 2002, and that while fusion voting is legal in some other states, it only happens in NY.
Is turnout ever an issue on the vote to the fringe of the mainstream? If it were, then mainstream candidates would need to keep an eye on their votes from outside. I would guess though that those votes are very reliable showups, with nowhere else to go, on both sides, and can therefore be ignored. Nader, of course, or other 3rd Ps running for themselves, throw a wrench into this calc.
If I remember correctly, NC's laws are that "third" parties have to run a distinct, unique candidate and cannot simply run what is effectively an on-the-ballot endorsement. (That sounds damning, when phrased that way, but it isn't meant to be. I think it would be neat.) It's also pretty hard to get on the ballot in NC. It takes several tens of thousands of verified signatures, and after that the percentage threshold is pretty high to stay on the ballot - all a reaction to the Socialist Worker's Party ending up on the ballot in '80 and the legislature flipping their shit. I remember reading somewhere that this made it very difficult, in '04, for the Libertarians to get back on the ballot.
For NY State Republicans, I think they do have a turnout problem with their fringe. The fringe is as socially conservative as it is anywhere in the country, but they aren't big enough to get much catering from Rs with a chance of winning the whole state, so they feel unloved. The Conservative endorsement gets them out.
What I find most interesting about your suggestion that Clinton run for Mayor is that I think it might be a good idea. He's basicaly a moderate Republican as far as most of his policies are concerned. He cannot hurt national defense or foreign affairs or appoint judges. He loves domestic policy. He would love the attention and would probably do a good job because of it. He does not know the ins and outs of the City's politics and government, but neither did Bloomberg and it has been a benefit as much as a hinderance for him.
What's wrong with me? How could I think this is a good idea?
What's wrong with me? How could I think this is a good idea?
I can't answer your first question (or, at least, it wouldn't be polite) but anything political the two of us can agree on is clearly not only a good idea, but inevitable. I say we meet up at Bill's office and tell him he has no choice.
The title of this post just made a connection for me; I've been out riding my bike, singing the song, when it hit me.
Years ago, when we first moved here to my Chicago neighborhood, there was exitement among the Lubavitchers. Many had bumper stickers, with the image of the Rebbe, and the slogan: Moshiah is Coming! Be A Part Of It!
Be a part of it. The song is where I'd heard the phrase before. I know the movement is centered in Brooklyn (Crown Heights?) but I guess I never realized how unconsciously New-York-centric it was.
Yes the working families party, (very unionish, just like me) has more than filled the gap. I think they do some great work down ballot. And they are looking to expand fusion voting to other states. But I wouldn't say that fusion voting is always a good thing. The power that WFP has to be spoiler for the Dems is becoming real-- and that creates peril. So far the benefits are a lot greater than the cost. The liberal party is a case in point.
The liberals stopped being liberal and started being kind of progressive Republicans for a while, giving Giuliani cover against Dinkins. As such they have lost a lot of their zing since the Giuliani days when party boss/leader/czar whatever Ray Harding had Rudy's ear. When Andrew Cuomo didn't run for Governor, and Bloomberg didn't need them they didn't get enough votes to keep their ballot spot.
Clinton would be a great mayor. And why didn't you think Spitzer had this sewn up regardless of who ran against him?
Is there anything left of that Liberal Party FDR Jr. used to get publicity for back in the sixties?
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 2:08 PM
I think they dropped off the radar, but I'm not sure. The deal is that if your party gets X votes in the gubernatorial election (I can't remember what X is), you get a line on all ballots for the next four years, and so your endorsement is valuable. The Liberals went pretty right-wing a while back, and I believe, though I wouldn't swear to it, that they missed the cutoff and no longer have a ballot line -- maybe not for the last eight years.
If there's a left equivalent of the NY Conservative party, it's the Working Families party; they have a ballot line and mostly endorse Democrats, but run their own candidates at the lower levels. I generally vote for the D candidate on the WF line.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 2:12 PM
I generally vote for the D candidate on the WF line.
That's what I did too. Basically your vote goes to the Dem. candidate, but it tells them that it's because you (and they) support the WFP's agenda. I wish Texas voting allowed something like that.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 2:18 PM
Yeah, the term is fusion voting, and it's great. Is it New York only that allows it, or are there other states?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 2:27 PM
To answer my own question, Wikipedia says that the Liberals lost their line in 2002, and that while fusion voting is legal in some other states, it only happens in NY.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 2:30 PM
Is turnout ever an issue on the vote to the fringe of the mainstream? If it were, then mainstream candidates would need to keep an eye on their votes from outside. I would guess though that those votes are very reliable showups, with nowhere else to go, on both sides, and can therefore be ignored. Nader, of course, or other 3rd Ps running for themselves, throw a wrench into this calc.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 2:32 PM
If I remember correctly, NC's laws are that "third" parties have to run a distinct, unique candidate and cannot simply run what is effectively an on-the-ballot endorsement. (That sounds damning, when phrased that way, but it isn't meant to be. I think it would be neat.) It's also pretty hard to get on the ballot in NC. It takes several tens of thousands of verified signatures, and after that the percentage threshold is pretty high to stay on the ballot - all a reaction to the Socialist Worker's Party ending up on the ballot in '80 and the legislature flipping their shit. I remember reading somewhere that this made it very difficult, in '04, for the Libertarians to get back on the ballot.
Posted by Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 2:36 PM
For NY State Republicans, I think they do have a turnout problem with their fringe. The fringe is as socially conservative as it is anywhere in the country, but they aren't big enough to get much catering from Rs with a chance of winning the whole state, so they feel unloved. The Conservative endorsement gets them out.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 2:37 PM
What I find most interesting about your suggestion that Clinton run for Mayor is that I think it might be a good idea. He's basicaly a moderate Republican as far as most of his policies are concerned. He cannot hurt national defense or foreign affairs or appoint judges. He loves domestic policy. He would love the attention and would probably do a good job because of it. He does not know the ins and outs of the City's politics and government, but neither did Bloomberg and it has been a benefit as much as a hinderance for him.
What's wrong with me? How could I think this is a good idea?
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 3:24 PM
problem with their fringe
I'm picturing upstate woodsmen dressed like Davy Crocket, including the fringe on their buckskin jackets. But voting for Pat Buchanan.
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 3:27 PM
Yeah, that's about right.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 3:35 PM
What's wrong with me? How could I think this is a good idea?
I can't answer your first question (or, at least, it wouldn't be polite) but anything political the two of us can agree on is clearly not only a good idea, but inevitable. I say we meet up at Bill's office and tell him he has no choice.
And re 10: You've clearly met my inlaws.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 3:37 PM
10 - Just the Log Cabin contingent.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 3:43 PM
The title of this post just made a connection for me; I've been out riding my bike, singing the song, when it hit me.
Years ago, when we first moved here to my Chicago neighborhood, there was exitement among the Lubavitchers. Many had bumper stickers, with the image of the Rebbe, and the slogan: Moshiah is Coming! Be A Part Of It!
Be a part of it. The song is where I'd heard the phrase before. I know the movement is centered in Brooklyn (Crown Heights?) but I guess I never realized how unconsciously New-York-centric it was.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 4:56 PM
Yes the working families party, (very unionish, just like me) has more than filled the gap. I think they do some great work down ballot. And they are looking to expand fusion voting to other states. But I wouldn't say that fusion voting is always a good thing. The power that WFP has to be spoiler for the Dems is becoming real-- and that creates peril. So far the benefits are a lot greater than the cost. The liberal party is a case in point.
The liberals stopped being liberal and started being kind of progressive Republicans for a while, giving Giuliani cover against Dinkins. As such they have lost a lot of their zing since the Giuliani days when party boss/leader/czar whatever Ray Harding had Rudy's ear. When Andrew Cuomo didn't run for Governor, and Bloomberg didn't need them they didn't get enough votes to keep their ballot spot.
Clinton would be a great mayor. And why didn't you think Spitzer had this sewn up regardless of who ran against him?
Posted by benton | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 6:46 PM
The spoiler problem is much, much bigger in states without fusion voting, though.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-24-06 7:04 PM