Is there anything in Manhattan that remains scary? It's been a while since I've spent serious time in NYC, but my recollection is that "bad area" now means "Starbucks is the only available option."
I have twice gotten on the G train to discover an empty car and a pool of blood. (Twice!) But admittedly one of those times was six or seven years ago.
Dear Tia: I try to be frightening, but boring women on the subway get this wistful, reminiscent look in their eyes when they look at me, and stifle giggles when I try to be repulsive. What can I do?
The problem, if anything, was probably that their acting was bad, and they would have done better to dress in a way that indicated they didn't want to fuck with people. Having lice has nothing to do with cleanliness. Lice prefer clean hair! Don't know about scabies.
my understanding is that it's too soon to make 9/11 jokes.
While I would not make them to someone who lost a family member, otherwise, why not?
Maybe someone can enlighten us; I bet the Isrealis have "How many suicide bombers can you fit on a school bus" jokes. The pain for them must be much too great not to joke about it.
Man, that shit was painful, not being scary. Especially going to a semi-elite private college, knowing that I wasn't fooling anyone but still wanting to be a badass. I had to get like a mile off campus before it worked consistently (although I was helped by bad personal hygiene).
But the style just doesn't go away. I was in high school in the late 80's -- punk had been around for a long time by then. And these kids looked just like my high school friends. There's something wrong about having a time-honored traditional form of teenage rebellion; they need a new style.
I don't know about New York but the sure fire sign in Glasgow that the bar you've just walked into is really NOT one you want to spend time in is the presence of men in suits.
Fine if you're in a business district and it's, say, 6pm. Anywhere else, or at any other time, then time to beat a hasty retreat.
[And obviously the presence of large tattoo'd men wearing the football shirts of the opposite side of the sectarian fence from you. Also a very bad sign.]
Punk and other subcultures of that type -- with the possible exception of the nastier end of the skinhead movement -- just aren't scary.
The real hardcore nutters when I was growing up were football 'casuals' and they dressed like preppy Americans.
I also can't figure out what music they're listening to. Most of the formerly punk-ish labels are now churning out stuff like Against Me!, which seems almost like parody of a once-actually-rebellious music genre.
The real hardcore nutters when I was growing up were football 'casuals' and they dressed like preppy Americans.
The most violent thing I've ever seen was a group of these guys (though they actually were Americans, I presume) bursting out of a bar right by Fenway Park in Boston, all beating on this one dude. There were probably 12 of them. I'd be surprised if the guy lived through the night. I and the girl I was with hustled away as soon as we could.
I don't know about New York but the sure fire sign in Glasgow that the bar you've just walked into is really NOT one you want to spend time in is the presence of men in suits.
I really don't believe there is such a sign in NY. Oh, there's street crime -- people have gotten mugged in my neighborhood recently -- but there's not a category of bar it would be unsafe to have a drink in.
"I don't know about New York but the sure fire sign in Glasgow that the bar you've just walked into is really NOT one you want to spend time in is the presence of men in suits."
Yes, those Glaswegian Hasidim are vicious buggers.
This seems just like normal, stupid adolescence. I wasn't there of course, but I'm not sure their attempt to freak you out and their "punk" styling had much to do with one another. I've seen many preppy kids do the same sorts of things to entertain themselves.
And I second (third?) the suggestion that their prank's failure had more to do with their bad acting and less to do with the mohawks and stupid chains. In fact, how could they have been dressed that such a stunt would have genuinely creeped you out, assuming the acting was still very bad? I bet you'd have seen through it and mocked them on this blog, regardless.
None of the above makes punk dress any less uncool.
My only direct experience with NYC crime these days was just a day or two ago, and wasn't that direct or at all serious: A friend of mine had come down from Syracuse to visit last weekend and left with a series of scratches on his girlfriend's car's door from it being keyed. We suspect the cabbie who got in a fight with my friend while said friend was standing in a spot and I was circling the block to park in it. I also see broken glass from car windows on my street not that irregularly.
My little sister used to drag me out to nu-metal shows. The entire audience was composed of little boys trying very, very hard to be scary. It was cute.
She would occasionally drag one of them home to meet us. They really didn't like it when I would tell them how adorable they were and ask what they wanted to be when they grew up. Multiple facial piercings just don't get the respect that they used to.
The most consistently dangerous neighborhood in Austin, at least from the point of view of being in peril of bodily harm, is west of the University of Texas campus where all the frat houses are.
Particularly on weekend nights. However, I have a friend in her 30s, matronly looking, who was carrying a (paper) bag of groceries to a friend's house in the area one afternoon, and these two frat dicks walking towards her just up and hit it and knocked it out of her hands and then continued walking on their way laughing. Luckily for them she wasn't packing any heat.
Re punk (if I have the typology right): can we all agree that the Dead Kennedys make us smile for precisely the same reasons that the Smiths make us smile?
47 -- I never made that connection (and I was a DK fan and never a Smiths fan, and a grimly devoted follower of the Jello Biafra censorship contretemps, but yes, that sounds just about right.
13: What I was going for in 6 isn't quite the use/mention distinction as I understand it. That's the distinction between talking about a word (or a phrase) and talking about what that word (or phrase) refers to.
"'The house, known to the world by the name of Fallingwater, created through the efforts and imaginings of Frank Lloyd Wright' is an unnecessarily complex and awkward construction" expresses a low opinion of the single-quoted phrase. "The house, known to the world by the name of Fallingwater, was created by Frank Lloyd Wright, is an unnecessarily complex and awkward construction" expresses a low opinion about the house (one which I do not hold).
56: Slol, since when do you hate America? I can't claim a deep knowledge of either band, but the DKs seem like the Smiths, if the Morrissey could be bothered to look outward instead of staring endlessly into the mirror.
There's got to be a special subspecies of praeteritio involving allusion to a joke you might theoretically make but haven't the energy or wit actually to construct.
There's got to be a special subspecies of praeteritio involving allusion to a joke you might theoretically make but haven't the energy or wit actually to construct.
There's a comment I'm failing to find which would back up this point, but I like "Labsian praeteritio" as the name for that subspecies.
I failed to enclose the name for that rhetorical device in single-quotes, as I should have in 55, since 55 was mentioning, rather than using it.
The only way we can shore up our diminishing generational cool is to take some of theirs. It's a zero-sum game, and the younger generation always wins. But we can fight a rear-guard action. Fer chrissakes, they're listening to music that was cool when I was younger than they are.
Though this thread begs the question, what can teens wear to be scary these days? Punk has eaten itself, goth is somehow even more laughable, and nu-metal is below contempt (plus 14-year-olds can't be scary no matter what they do).
I personally think that potential teenage rebels should look to one example: Wham! "Choose Life" sweatshirts and day-glo short-shorts with 3-day stubble are the only true way to freak out the modern jaded urbanite and deeply disturb one's parents. Unless it's gay pride week, in which case tourists will probably just want to take pictures with you.
69: Actually, Americans started that stuff when the Tommy Hilfiger brand was taken over by gangster rap in the early 90s. Chavs with their "subversive" bootleg Burberry bobbins are just biting our style.
I think self-refuting covers it nicely. But, while there is no such thing as cool grownup cred, you can suck every vestige of cool out of a situation through similar means, which can also be fun. "Nope, I'm a dull adult, and you're an unintimidating teenager trying desperately to project dangerousness. No one here is cool."
The whole 'casual' thing (linked above) predates that by a decade or more and is pretty much the direct precursor of much of what gets labelled 'chav'. I suspect the process is the same -- coopting of expensive brands by those who wouldn't normally be the target market, etc -- but there's no real causal link.
actually, I can't imagine what a possible US equivalent would look like.
I think it would look a lot like Christina Aguilera.
Actually from the little I know of chav style, it seems to be a variant/play on the U.S. gangsta bling look, i.e. "the underclass" wearing designer fashions and lots of shiny things.
I suspect the process is the same -- coopting of expensive brands by those who wouldn't normally be the target market, etc -- but there's no real causal link.
The Teddy Boys were into that shit before anybody.
80: Well, chavs alwasy struck me more as white trash than gangsta. They were kind of trashy but mostly harmless a-holes in adidas and burberry caps while I was in England.
So I guess they're closer to the white kids in America who wore the ludicrously oversized Hilfiger stuff and backward baseball caps after they saw gangster rap videos on MTV (or maybe BET, if they were super daring).
92: I refuse to ever call the actual gang-involved kids "chavs", since that would mean they actually produced something good when they created Grime. Sure, a lot of chavs are lower-class, but they were more rowdy and annoying than actually violent and scary, which is why I said they really reminded me more of white trash than actual gangsters.
Here is a an article about middle aged people trying to be cool. I am 40 and actually do a decent number of the things mentioned in the article. The new pornographers is all about the neko case.
You know what is really fucking stupid in terms of teenage clothing?
Hollister's. I hate that damn store. Oh, let's all look like anorexic surfer chicks by paying for an overpriced faded tee.
When one points out to one's beloved youngest calasister that she lives in a for all intents and purposes landlocked state, one is rewarded with an eye-roll.
Oh, but isn't the neologism alone proof that whatever this is, it isn't cool? I mean, you can do, wear, listen to and watch what you like. But, you know<eyeroll>.
Didn't think you were unaware, nor was particularly confused by your usage. I would just like to maintain BTQ = presupposes the conclusion and use, as suggested in the linked thread, "raises the question" or an equivalent for your usage.
Oh, let's all look like anorexic surfer chicks by paying for an overpriced faded tee. When one points out to one's beloved youngest calasister that she lives in a for all intents and purposes landlocked state, one is rewarded with an eye-roll.
And up here it's been quite amusing to watch the wholesale rip off of the surf and skate cultures by the snowboarders. Bunch of twits.
I remember one purported etymology of "chav" being an acronym that began with "council house" but I can't remember the rest of it.
Council Housed And Violent.
But I'm certain that the acronym came after, not before, "chav" came into use. Sort of like the etymology of the word "gay" is not an acronym from "Got AIDS Yet?" (God I hate Fred Phelps).
I am somewhat surprised that this "Urban Etiquette" article has not yet been turned into a Becks post. Perhaps it's overly NYC-centric, but our posters these days are pretty NYC-centric as well.
ThatNew York Magazine article is annoying. Its moral position, from a brief glance, seems to be: "Once you turn 35 and have a child, you should DIE INSIDE. It's OVER OVER OVER for you. Just GIVE UP already."
Yeah, 'chav' isn't about middle-class kids trying to be 'gangsta' or 'street' and there isn't, I suspect, a nice easy US analogue. Stereotypical small-town southern mullet-wearing white trash would be the closest comparison.
Many/most of the people labelled as chavs or neds genuinely are from working-class areas and aren't playing at or co-opting street style from somewhere else.
Wham! "Choose Life" sweatshirts and day-glo short-shorts with 3-day stubble are the only true way to freak out the modern jaded urbanite and deeply disturb one's parents.
God, that look scared me enough back in high school. It would be a terrifying acid flashback to see it now.
I remember asking a girl at my high school what exactly she thought the oversized "choose life" t-shirt meant, and she said, no kidding, "You know, its about choice, and life." Really.
I have two technical things to say that are totally unrelated to this thread:
(1) just fyi, I always see this at the bottom the the comments page:
"Odd number of elements in hash assignment at lib/MT/App/Comments.pm line 68.
Use of uninitialized value in list assignment at lib/MT/App/Comments.pm line 68."
(2) A long time ago in a galaxy far away, I remember there was some way to have the comments, upon reopening to see new additions, open to right where you left off last time you were reading. I just now remembered that this feature was once available, how handy it was, and was wondering how/why it disappeared.
Just to not be totally off-topic here -- kids with extreme facial piercings still freak me out. Not in a "scarred for my physical safety" sort of way, but in a "what the hell is the matter with you?" kind of way.
Oddly, 45 year old men with similarly freakish facila piercings don't bother in the same way. Probably because I don't look at them and see a future of lost opportunities....
Or a semi-tropical paradise like the northeast today. Why is there so much humidity and when can we send it somewhere else?
I read that New York article at the gym once and it amused me. Like 'adulthood' is set in stone by the boomer generation, who, I'm sure, as soon as they turned 35, emulated their greatest-generation parents perfectly. Psst, magazine. Styles can change and you can be a grown-up and listen to music. Aren't you a damn style mag?
Yeah, 'chav' isn't about middle-class kids trying to be 'gangsta' or 'street' and there isn't, I suspect, a nice easy US analogue. . . . Many/most of the people labelled as chavs or neds genuinely are from working-class areas and aren't playing at or co-opting street style from somewhere else.
I really think the US analogue is inner-city youth, usually but not exclusively black or latino (I've seen white and east asian versions, for example), with lots of designer labels, big gold jewelry, tricked-out cars, the latest phones and ringtones, expensive liquor brands, etc.
A lot of the look/style is about conspicuous consumption and about not being ashamed of, and indeed actively and loudly playing up, your underclass status in the face of snobbery: "Yeah I'm a lout/thug, so what? What you gonna do about it?"
You're probably right that the "trailer trash and proud" thing here is something similar in terms of attitude, I just don't see the same focus on designer brands and labels that's characteristic of the chav and ghetto fabulous styles.
88: No, no, I'm not talking about the teacher role. The teacher role requires one to not be cool, or you lose all fucking authority over the little twerps.
132, see 128. Also, I'm not sure chavs are really copying the gangsta look, although there are some similar elements. And it's not just about clothes. Plus, stereotypical chav music is not hip-hop, it's dance.
112 - I'm not getting my New York magazine subscription while I'm in Virginia. You'll probably see a bunch of belated "OMG! The idiocy!" posts related to NYMag articles around, oh, July 19.
About the "grups" article (the one about people over 35 who won't grow up), the neighbors we went with to Dave Matthews (no need to tell me DMB sucks, read the link) brought along their 2 year-old kid. I was trying to figure out if that made us accessories to hopeless adult-grup-toolishness but it didn't feel like it at all. It all kind of worked without being obnoxious. I think it's only because our neighbors aren't annoying hipsters but earnest, down-to-earth, blue-collar folk.
Fine, gangsta + dance music. Of course it's gonna change a bit in translation, but if you don't think that that look is borrowing from American black hip-hop you're deeply delusional.
Re. surf style in landlocked states: shut up, all of you. We totally dress PK in little Hawiian shirts and the like, b/c they go with his long hair and b/c most little boy clothes are ugly and b/c we miss home, y'all. SO THERE.
I'm sure there are elements of borrowing from US hip-hop but much less than you think. Elements of that look have been around here for a very long time. Kids were looking a lot like that where I grew up a long time before hip-hop went mainstream in the UK and the look comes as much out of a combination of late 80s acid-house, 'madchester' and early 80s 'casual' looks.
I don't think central Scottish neds (the north-of-the-border equivalent of 'chavs') really reference hip-hop much at all or if they do its in a way that's been filtered through a lot of other layers first. They may listen to Eminem and 50 cent but they *looked* that way years before either even existed (as a recording artist).
Of course it's gonna change a bit in translation, but if you don't think that that look is borrowing from American black hip-hop you're deeply delusional.
Agreed, there's borrowing going on in terms of the look, but saying chav is "gangsta + dance music" is overly reductive and inaccurate.
It doesn't have to be derivative of gangsta to be strongly parallel to it -- a lower-class culture of unapologetically appropriating upper-class consumer goods can easily have arisen spontaneously in both countries.
It's a long running strand in British working-class culture. 1970s darts players all looked like modern hip-hop artists [I am totally not kidding] in expensive leisure-wear and gold. I've seen the argument made -- in jest -- that the whole of hip-hop style is defined by working class British pub-game fashion of the late 70s.
The early 80s casual scene was all about rocking various obscure or hard to get Italian and French labels.
60s working class hard-cases in cities like Glasgow wore expensive suits and jewellery.
And on and on and on.
The designer clothes + bling thing is emphatically not an import from the US.
Nor, even, is the expensive trainers and tracksuit thing. I remember in the late 70s kids making a big deal about their new Adidas or Gola trainers and not having the 'cool' trainers made you an object of scorn. All of that predates hip-hop's arrival in the UK.
That's not to say there's no influence at all but to claim that the 'chav' look is some kind of UK response to hip-hop fashion is to completely misunderstand it.
134: Free associating from DMB, Ann Coulter is a Deadhead. I wonder, given her obvious inability to string together a couple of sentences without saying something calumnious about liberals, if it casues her trouble in her day to day life.
Ann: How much for an orange mocha frappucino?
Barista: What size orange mocha frappucino?
Ann: A medium liberals love terrorists please.
Barista: I'm sorry, I missed that.
Ann: Tell me how much a medium Monica Lewinsky blew Bill Clinton in the oval office would be?
Barista: Ms., you can't use that sort of language here.
Ann: Traitor.
139: Yeah, sorry, I was really meaning to call chavs more a parallel to the US gangsta and white trash groups than a derivative. Even if I clearly said otherwise earlier in the thread, ignore that, I meant to be correct.
Also, that New York Magazine article kind of riled me. It has a lot of good rules of thumb for urban living, but I also despise the openly sexist etiquette suggestions.
It doesn't have to be derivative of gangsta to be strongly parallel to it -- a lower-class culture of unapologetically appropriating upper-class consumer goods can easily have arisen spontaneously in both countries.
Hence the Zoot Suiters, Teddy Boys, and Chinese Construction Workers mentioned above.
Don't know their music but: this seems pretty classy to me. Going out on a high note, with an enthusiastic fan base -- seems to me like they should be able to transition pretty smoothly to solo careers and continue to make good music. (Assuming based on the positive reviews from people I respect, that their music actually is good.)
OK, I kind of figured this might be coming because they've been flirting around the issue for a long time and they practically had to drag Corin kicking and screaming to do The Woods. That's one of the reasons I went out to SF and snatched up tickets to the East Coast shows.
And at least they didn't all go down in a plane crash or something. Jeez people, a little perspective!
They'll be doing a reunion tour before you know it. Why just this past month I've seen both the Violent Femmes and Echo & the Bunnymen. Sonic Youth too, but then they never really broke up.
Yeah, maybe it will be like Ogged retiring. After a while, they'll get bored (or cancer), they'll realize they miss the interaction with the fans, and you'll be able to see them opening for REO Speedwagon on a cruiseship.
>About the "grups" article (the one about people over 35 who won't grow up), the neighbors we went with to Dave Matthews (no need to tell me DMB sucks, read the link) brought along their 2 year-old kid.
They'll be doing a reunion tour before you know it. Why just this past month I've seen both the Violent Femmes and Echo & the Bunnymen. Sonic Youth too, but then they never really broke up.
Yeah, but I always feel kind of fake watching the reunion, even if I wasn't alive during the band's actual heyday (as in Echo & the Bunnymen, Mission of Burma, Os Mutantes, and, well, everyone else who's cool and now touring again). It also really feels like I'm just watching the facsimile of the original, a bunch of older people going through the motions of 20-year-old glory.
JAC, I don't remember where you are but tickets are still available for Philly and NYC and haven't gone on sale yet for DC. I bet they're going to get snatched up right quick when word starts to spread. Apo scooped the S-K blogs I read on this so I don't know how far the word is out yet.
>Yeah, but I always feel kind of fake watching the reunion, even if I wasn't alive during the band's actual heyday (as in Echo & the Bunnymen, Mission of Burma, Os Mutantes, and, well, everyone else who's cool and now touring again). It also really feels like I'm just watching the facsimile of the original, a bunch of older people going through the motions of 20-year-old glory.
I got Mission of Burma and Os Mutantes tickets. Plus, Vashti Banyun for the combination of fakeness and novelty.
174: I'm in Chicago, that's why I'm pouting, especially since I currently wouldn't have anyone to crash with in NYC for the purposes of music tourism. Otherwise, I'd be going to Les Savy Fav's free pool party July 9th for sure.
177: Yeah, I'm going to Pitchfork festival as well, the rest of the line-up should be fantastic. I completely geeked out when they announced Liars joining the bill, since I adored their show here a couple weeks ago.
178: Bleh! I am missing both Pitchfork and Lollapallooza because I will be out of the country for work. I would be going to them both, and this sad news makes it
SO MUCH WORSE.
With Wolfson traipsing around Europe, Labs off fighting the zombies of political correctness, and Weiner leaving in a Kangaroo's pouch or something, it appears there is only Cala left to make sure I don't make false or otherwise improper philosophical claims. Oh, I guess Rob H-C has been around more often lately. I say this in light of 51, which I think is fine, but not really any better than my just copying the wikipedia examples about the number of letters in 'copper,' not in copper.
Thanks, though I just looked back and realized I forgot to change the repition so that it would match the original. Stupid revisions. And there doesn't seem to have been any need for me to capitalize 'kangaroo' in 192.
w/d, Primus is from El Sobrante. They could never, ever suck, not even ironically.
Fallingwater, however, according to a friend of my mom's who housesat it for a summer, is always dank and mosquito-ridden, due to the stream running through the living room. It's pretty in pictures, though, and I quite like some of his other houses.
And to pick up another, earlier theme of the thread. I've had plenty of bad experiences with particular individuals of The Greatful Dead. I'll never forget how a mourner for Jerry Garcia totally accosted me and presumed that I felt his pain, when I was just peaceably sitting on the sidewalk, waiting for my friends to come out of the communal nudist hottub in the Berkeley suburbs. That old guy totally harshed my mellow!
Local boys! Who bring on the funk! (In other words, I have absolutely no objectivity on the subject.)
By Berkeley suburbs, in this case, I meant somewhere around Cedar and Telegraph. Quiet streets, wood-shingled houses, elm trees. I wish I still knew where the communal nudist hottub was, and what the code is these days. That place was awesome. (It had a strict no-talking-at-all rule, which seemed to work.)
What I remember about the Fallingwater tour: when someone in the group remarked on how small the doorframes were, the guide said that that was because people were shorter back then.
Is anyone else having problems loading and reloading the blog today? I find myself having to reload multiple times to get to the end of some of the threads.
Oh, crap, you totally caught me. Cedar, what the hell was I thinking? What's the one that is actually Highway 13, that goes by Cafe Strata at College? Anyway, somewhere closer to the Rockridge area; southwest Berkeley, somewhereabouts.
It was awesome, man, really fucking far-out. Until those damned deadheads showed up, of course.
Is anyone else having problems loading and reloading the blog today? I find myself having to reload multiple times to get to the end of some of the threads.
You might find it easier to get to the end of the thread if you just relax and let things happen.
Cala left to make sure I don't make false or otherwise improper philosophical claims.
Oh, how you presume I have a clue.
You might find it easier to get to the end of the thread if you just relax and let things happen.
I've been having some problems where it loads the first three or four comments and then stops -- with the comment box and everything -- but if I scroll down I get to the last comment. Not sure where the error lies.
I think Ashby is 13 and Ashby and College could get you close to leafy residential areas. I don't have a very distinct image of that side of the city, though.
On an unrelated note, my memory of visiting Rietveld's Schroder House centers on how long and dull the experience was, a feeling fueled only in part by the fact that the guide spoke only in Dutch. The most humiliating moment was when the American contingent of the group attempted to sneakily retreat away from the tour and out of the house only to discover the front door was locked from the outside. We had to climb back upstairs to face the disapproving stares of the German tourists. We wanted to say, "Screw you, we're art historians," but were too ashamed.
Later, stopping at a shop nearby, we chatted with some local Dutch girls working there. The topic of why we were visiting came up, and someone admitted, "The Schroder House is really boring." "Oh, I know!" one of them replied. "They take us there every year in school. I'm so sick of it!" We agreed.
Yes! Ashby is what I meant. Ashby and Telegraph is very nice, but was just emerging from just a little bit seedy about when Jerry died. The nudist communal hottub was around there, maybe a bit north.
(Everywhere I grew up thinking were slums are now unaffordable.)
215 was intended to convey "After I hit 'Post', when I look at the 'Window' menu, one of the windows is listed as 'Loading Unfogged Happy Fun Page!'" Or, more perlocutionarily, "Safari sucks." But it came out with that computer-translated feel.
I understood what 215 meant, I just didn't know why you thought more computer translation would reduce the computer-translated feel. Inflecting your verbs would be a better method.
You are so harsh!
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:42 AM
But they were such cute well-scrubbed boys! If you want to scare people, you've got to give up on being cute and clean.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:48 AM
What would the answer to the riddle have been?
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:59 AM
Is there anything in Manhattan that remains scary? It's been a while since I've spent serious time in NYC, but my recollection is that "bad area" now means "Starbucks is the only available option."
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:00 AM
I have twice gotten on the G train to discover an empty car and a pool of blood. (Twice!) But admittedly one of those times was six or seven years ago.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:04 AM
4: I have an answer, but my understanding is that it's too soon to make 9/11 jokes.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:05 AM
6: It took my father about a week. ("Architectural criticism has gone too far!")
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:06 AM
Clearly, you should have invited the punks to write a letter to Ask the Mineshaft.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:11 AM
Dear Tia: I try to be frightening, but boring women on the subway get this wistful, reminiscent look in their eyes when they look at me, and stifle giggles when I try to be repulsive. What can I do?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:12 AM
The problem, if anything, was probably that their acting was bad, and they would have done better to dress in a way that indicated they didn't want to fuck with people. Having lice has nothing to do with cleanliness. Lice prefer clean hair! Don't know about scabies.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:14 AM
my understanding is that it's too soon to make 9/11 jokes.
While I would not make them to someone who lost a family member, otherwise, why not?
Maybe someone can enlighten us; I bet the Isrealis have "How many suicide bombers can you fit on a school bus" jokes. The pain for them must be much too great not to joke about it.
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:14 AM
And are much less likely in short hair, which this guy had. They didn't know from lice, or from scabies.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:15 AM
11/7 -- I think there is a use/mention thingumajig going on here.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:17 AM
Man, that shit was painful, not being scary. Especially going to a semi-elite private college, knowing that I wasn't fooling anyone but still wanting to be a badass. I had to get like a mile off campus before it worked consistently (although I was helped by bad personal hygiene).
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:21 AM
I did kind of feel bad for them. I considered suggesting that they get off at Times Square and scare tourists.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:23 AM
more overheard conversations, from Camden Market:
"hey can you hear that?"
"what"
"that. that's the sound of punk being dead."
Posted by dsquared | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:27 AM
16 -- I am picturing you doing that, and addressing them as "you boys".
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:32 AM
But the style just doesn't go away. I was in high school in the late 80's -- punk had been around for a long time by then. And these kids looked just like my high school friends. There's something wrong about having a time-honored traditional form of teenage rebellion; they need a new style.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:32 AM
the sound of punk being dead
Henry Rollins has a chat show.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:35 AM
I don't know about New York but the sure fire sign in Glasgow that the bar you've just walked into is really NOT one you want to spend time in is the presence of men in suits.
Fine if you're in a business district and it's, say, 6pm. Anywhere else, or at any other time, then time to beat a hasty retreat.
[And obviously the presence of large tattoo'd men wearing the football shirts of the opposite side of the sectarian fence from you. Also a very bad sign.]
Punk and other subcultures of that type -- with the possible exception of the nastier end of the skinhead movement -- just aren't scary.
The real hardcore nutters when I was growing up were football 'casuals' and they dressed like preppy Americans.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:35 AM
I also can't figure out what music they're listening to. Most of the formerly punk-ish labels are now churning out stuff like Against Me!, which seems almost like parody of a once-actually-rebellious music genre.
Posted by Stanley | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:37 AM
19 - Henry Rollins has excellent taste.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:38 AM
The real hardcore nutters when I was growing up were football 'casuals' and they dressed like preppy Americans.
The most violent thing I've ever seen was a group of these guys (though they actually were Americans, I presume) bursting out of a bar right by Fenway Park in Boston, all beating on this one dude. There were probably 12 of them. I'd be surprised if the guy lived through the night. I and the girl I was with hustled away as soon as we could.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:38 AM
the one with the mohawk and big stupid chains
This was already passé and silly when I was in high school in the early '80s. Twenty years later, it hasn't gotten any cooler.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:39 AM
I don't know about New York but the sure fire sign in Glasgow that the bar you've just walked into is really NOT one you want to spend time in is the presence of men in suits.
I really don't believe there is such a sign in NY. Oh, there's street crime -- people have gotten mugged in my neighborhood recently -- but there's not a category of bar it would be unsafe to have a drink in.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:39 AM
"I don't know about New York but the sure fire sign in Glasgow that the bar you've just walked into is really NOT one you want to spend time in is the presence of men in suits."
Yes, those Glaswegian Hasidim are vicious buggers.
Posted by ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:42 AM
22 -- and how would you know? Have you tasted him?
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:43 AM
re: 23
Well, the middle classes are dangerous in groups!
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:44 AM
125th on the 1/9?
Manhattan School of Music kids, for sure.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:49 AM
I'm amused at the thought of LB as the target of such a prank.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:49 AM
Have you tasted him?
Just his urethra.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:50 AM
Hey, matronly woman heading for an office job here. I personify the bourgeois to be epatered.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:52 AM
Maybe you should dye your hair pink.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:53 AM
But I like being boringly matronly.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:55 AM
23: Did you call the police?
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:55 AM
This seems just like normal, stupid adolescence. I wasn't there of course, but I'm not sure their attempt to freak you out and their "punk" styling had much to do with one another. I've seen many preppy kids do the same sorts of things to entertain themselves.
And I second (third?) the suggestion that their prank's failure had more to do with their bad acting and less to do with the mohawks and stupid chains. In fact, how could they have been dressed that such a stunt would have genuinely creeped you out, assuming the acting was still very bad? I bet you'd have seen through it and mocked them on this blog, regardless.
None of the above makes punk dress any less uncool.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:57 AM
At a festival this past weekend in a certain city in the Midwest I saw several infant to toddler age boys with mohawks. I was franky terrified.
Posted by peep | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:58 AM
35 gets it exactly right.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:58 AM
23: Did you call the police?
No. We still had a long walk home. It was pre-cell phone days, at least for me.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:59 AM
My only direct experience with NYC crime these days was just a day or two ago, and wasn't that direct or at all serious: A friend of mine had come down from Syracuse to visit last weekend and left with a series of scratches on his girlfriend's car's door from it being keyed. We suspect the cabbie who got in a fight with my friend while said friend was standing in a spot and I was circling the block to park in it. I also see broken glass from car windows on my street not that irregularly.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:02 AM
My little sister used to drag me out to nu-metal shows. The entire audience was composed of little boys trying very, very hard to be scary. It was cute.
She would occasionally drag one of them home to meet us. They really didn't like it when I would tell them how adorable they were and ask what they wanted to be when they grew up. Multiple facial piercings just don't get the respect that they used to.
Posted by winna | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:04 AM
The most consistently dangerous neighborhood in Austin, at least from the point of view of being in peril of bodily harm, is west of the University of Texas campus where all the frat houses are.
Particularly on weekend nights. However, I have a friend in her 30s, matronly looking, who was carrying a (paper) bag of groceries to a friend's house in the area one afternoon, and these two frat dicks walking towards her just up and hit it and knocked it out of her hands and then continued walking on their way laughing. Luckily for them she wasn't packing any heat.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:11 AM
Of course, teenagers are always unintentionally funny, no matter what their clique.
"I mean, birds are dying! And it's, like, hard to wake up every day."
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:19 AM
I wish I could watch that at work.
Posted by Joe Drymala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:21 AM
43: I think that turned out to be a prank.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:25 AM
45: Hmm. Sometimes teenagers are intentionally funny, too.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:29 AM
Re punk (if I have the typology right): can we all agree that the Dead Kennedys make us smile for precisely the same reasons that the Smiths make us smile?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:30 AM
47 -- I never made that connection (and I was a DK fan and never a Smiths fan, and a grimly devoted follower of the Jello Biafra censorship contretemps, but yes, that sounds just about right.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:33 AM
) before ", but"
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:35 AM
Ah, here it is: the death of emo girl.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:35 AM
13: What I was going for in 6 isn't quite the use/mention distinction as I understand it. That's the distinction between talking about a word (or a phrase) and talking about what that word (or phrase) refers to.
"'The house, known to the world by the name of Fallingwater, created through the efforts and imaginings of Frank Lloyd Wright' is an unnecessarily complex and awkward construction" expresses a low opinion of the single-quoted phrase. "The house, known to the world by the name of Fallingwater, was created by Frank Lloyd Wright, is an unnecessarily complex and awkward construction" expresses a low opinion about the house (one which I do not hold).
6 is an example of prateriteo.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:41 AM
David Neiwert says that a lot of modern white supremacists, especially the middle-aged ones, dress and (to outsiders) act quite normally.
Posted by pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:47 AM
WD, broken link. And was that misspelling intentional?
Posted by pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:49 AM
the same reasons that the Smiths make us smile
I'm not sure the Smiths make you and I smile for the same reason, sailor.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:51 AM
Praeteriteo is the intended spelling and link.
Posted by washerdreyetr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:59 AM
can we all agree that the Dead Kennedys make us smile for precisely the same reasons that the Smiths make us smile
No.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:00 AM
56: Slol, since when do you hate America? I can't claim a deep knowledge of either band, but the DKs seem like the Smiths, if the Morrissey could be bothered to look outward instead of staring endlessly into the mirror.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:04 AM
since when do you hate America?
Apparently since sometime after 9:40 last night.
Basically, I never liked the Smiths, is the point here.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:07 AM
Maybe someone can enlighten us; I bet the Isrealis have "How many suicide bombers can you fit on a school bus" jokes.
Not sure about the Israelis, but that reminded me of one of the greatest VW ads ever.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:10 AM
re: 59 That's what I'm talking about.
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:12 AM
Praeteriteo is the intended spelling and link.
There's got to be a special subspecies of praeteritio involving allusion to a joke you might theoretically make but haven't the energy or wit actually to construct.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:17 AM
Oh, leave the poor punk kids alone. It's great that they get to play with being rebellious while keeping their grades up.
Also, to be fair, the punk pretense *does* scare some people. You can get all sorts of cool grownup cred by letting on that you're not one of them.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:21 AM
61: This is why English should be agglutinative.
Posted by pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:22 AM
Well, moreso than it is, anyway.
Posted by pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:23 AM
There's got to be a special subspecies of praeteritio involving allusion to a joke you might theoretically make but haven't the energy or wit actually to construct.
There's a comment I'm failing to find which would back up this point, but I like "Labsian praeteritio" as the name for that subspecies.
I failed to enclose the name for that rhetorical device in single-quotes, as I should have in 55, since 55 was mentioning, rather than using it.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:26 AM
Oh, leave the poor punk kids alone.
The only way we can shore up our diminishing generational cool is to take some of theirs. It's a zero-sum game, and the younger generation always wins. But we can fight a rear-guard action. Fer chrissakes, they're listening to music that was cool when I was younger than they are.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:30 AM
You can get all sorts of cool grownup cred by letting on that you're not one of them.
Actually, that just ruins all the fun.
Depending on the grownup, it can also be creepy.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:34 AM
Though this thread begs the question, what can teens wear to be scary these days? Punk has eaten itself, goth is somehow even more laughable, and nu-metal is below contempt (plus 14-year-olds can't be scary no matter what they do).
I personally think that potential teenage rebels should look to one example: Wham! "Choose Life" sweatshirts and day-glo short-shorts with 3-day stubble are the only true way to freak out the modern jaded urbanite and deeply disturb one's parents. Unless it's gay pride week, in which case tourists will probably just want to take pictures with you.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:37 AM
re: 68
I see the 'chav' (or 'ned') phenomenon* hasn't hit US shores yet.**
* by which I mean both the reality and the sneery middle-class hysteria.
** actually, I can't imagine what a possible US equivalent would look like.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:39 AM
cool grownup cred
Also, though I hate to break it to you, there's no such thing as this.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:40 AM
The concept of cool grownup cred seems, somehow, self-refuting. Is there a Latin word for that?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:41 AM
69: Actually, Americans started that stuff when the Tommy Hilfiger brand was taken over by gangster rap in the early 90s. Chavs with their "subversive" bootleg Burberry bobbins are just biting our style.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:42 AM
I see the 'chav' (or 'ned') phenomenon* hasn't hit US shores yet.**
Isn't Ali G a chav? If so, then it has.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:42 AM
70, 71: Jeebus, slol. So how's my life turn looking, one minute into the future?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:43 AM
71: We can pretend that oxymoron is Latin, if that helps.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:43 AM
I think self-refuting covers it nicely. But, while there is no such thing as cool grownup cred, you can suck every vestige of cool out of a situation through similar means, which can also be fun. "Nope, I'm a dull adult, and you're an unintimidating teenager trying desperately to project dangerousness. No one here is cool."
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:44 AM
re: 69
The whole 'casual' thing (linked above) predates that by a decade or more and is pretty much the direct precursor of much of what gets labelled 'chav'. I suspect the process is the same -- coopting of expensive brands by those who wouldn't normally be the target market, etc -- but there's no real causal link.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:45 AM
'single-quotes' -- the cool kids call 'em "inverted commas".
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:46 AM
67/70: Maybe I'm hanging onto the last vestiges of the pretty woman exemption. Don't destroy my illusions.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:46 AM
actually, I can't imagine what a possible US equivalent would look like.
I think it would look a lot like Christina Aguilera.
Actually from the little I know of chav style, it seems to be a variant/play on the U.S. gangsta bling look, i.e. "the underclass" wearing designer fashions and lots of shiny things.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:46 AM
So how's my life turn looking, one minute into the future?
I'm guessing that part of it is, it's still true that neither of us is cool.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:46 AM
By "chav" do you mean "gangsta"? Because I hate to tell you Brits, but that's so 1990s.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:47 AM
I believe chav means white kids trying to be "street" by wearing hoodies, bling, etc.
I think the echt middle-class hysterical reaction is the banning of hoodies and baseball caps from the Bluewater shopping center/re.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:50 AM
Damn, pwnd.
I suspect the process is the same -- coopting of expensive brands by those who wouldn't normally be the target market, etc -- but there's no real causal link.
The Teddy Boys were into that shit before anybody.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:51 AM
Also the zoot suiters.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:52 AM
80: Well, chavs alwasy struck me more as white trash than gangsta. They were kind of trashy but mostly harmless a-holes in adidas and burberry caps while I was in England.
So I guess they're closer to the white kids in America who wore the ludicrously oversized Hilfiger stuff and backward baseball caps after they saw gangster rap videos on MTV (or maybe BET, if they were super daring).
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:53 AM
I believe chav means white kids trying to be "street" by wearing hoodies, bling, etc.
But it's not a middle-class white kid thing like wiggas here in the States, or at least it wasn't originally.
In China, day laborers and construction workers all wore suit jackets with the brand label still displayed prominently on the sleeve.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:54 AM
the last vestiges of the pretty woman exemption
"Hot for teacher" ≠ "teacher is cool"
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:54 AM
By "chav" do you mean "gangsta"?
My impression of chav is more "desperately would like to be gangsta". Think Kevin Federline.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:54 AM
They were Estonian treasury agents, on a mission ultimately from Cthulhu.
Posted by Jonathan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:56 AM
"Chav" just made it into the OED.
Posted by Jonathan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:57 AM
No, plenty of chav are real deal, they grew up in crummy housing schemes (i.e. "the projects") and aren't just trying to be "street".
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:58 AM
68: The aforementioned question has not been begged anywhere in this thread.
Standards, people!
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:59 AM
they grew up in crummy housing schemes .
So now "chav" is a synonym for "English"?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:00 AM
they grew up in crummy housing schemes
I remember one purported etymology of "chav" being an acronym that began with "council house" but I can't remember the rest of it.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:00 AM
Audio-Visual?
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:02 AM
92: I refuse to ever call the actual gang-involved kids "chavs", since that would mean they actually produced something good when they created Grime. Sure, a lot of chavs are lower-class, but they were more rowdy and annoying than actually violent and scary, which is why I said they really reminded me more of white trash than actual gangsters.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:03 AM
Here is a an article about middle aged people trying to be cool. I am 40 and actually do a decent number of the things mentioned in the article. The new pornographers is all about the neko case.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:04 AM
You know what is really fucking stupid in terms of teenage clothing?
Hollister's. I hate that damn store. Oh, let's all look like anorexic surfer chicks by paying for an overpriced faded tee.
When one points out to one's beloved youngest calasister that she lives in a for all intents and purposes landlocked state, one is rewarded with an eye-roll.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:04 AM
93: Indeed, I am aware of the original usage of the phrase, but Utahraptor agrees that you're being overly pedantic.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:07 AM
All clothes are stupid. Everybody should be naked.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:10 AM
Here is a an article
Oh, but isn't the neologism alone proof that whatever this is, it isn't cool? I mean, you can do, wear, listen to and watch what you like. But, you know<eyeroll>.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:10 AM
Everybody should be naked.
Well, if you live in a semitropical paradise like North Carolina, sure.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:11 AM
97: Yeah my point wasn't that they were gangsters, it was that they weren't privileged middle-class kids pretending to be from the 'hood.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:12 AM
Didn't think you were unaware, nor was particularly confused by your usage. I would just like to maintain BTQ = presupposes the conclusion and use, as suggested in the linked thread, "raises the question" or an equivalent for your usage.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:12 AM
Re etymology, the OED states that it's Romany from a word for "man" or "boy."
Posted by Jonathan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:12 AM
What, don't people surf Lake Erie?
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:13 AM
Lake Erie doesn't get good all that often.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:16 AM
the OED states
The OED is actually a little more waffly than that.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:16 AM
Oh, let's all look like anorexic surfer chicks by paying for an overpriced faded tee. When one points out to one's beloved youngest calasister that she lives in a for all intents and purposes landlocked state, one is rewarded with an eye-roll.
And up here it's been quite amusing to watch the wholesale rip off of the surf and skate cultures by the snowboarders. Bunch of twits.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:16 AM
I remember one purported etymology of "chav" being an acronym that began with "council house" but I can't remember the rest of it.
Council Housed And Violent.
But I'm certain that the acronym came after, not before, "chav" came into use. Sort of like the etymology of the word "gay" is not an acronym from "Got AIDS Yet?" (God I hate Fred Phelps).
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:20 AM
I am somewhat surprised that this "Urban Etiquette" article has not yet been turned into a Becks post. Perhaps it's overly NYC-centric, but our posters these days are pretty NYC-centric as well.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:20 AM
ThatNew York Magazine article is annoying. Its moral position, from a brief glance, seems to be: "Once you turn 35 and have a child, you should DIE INSIDE. It's OVER OVER OVER for you. Just GIVE UP already."
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:21 AM
re: 104
Yeah, 'chav' isn't about middle-class kids trying to be 'gangsta' or 'street' and there isn't, I suspect, a nice easy US analogue. Stereotypical small-town southern mullet-wearing white trash would be the closest comparison.
Many/most of the people labelled as chavs or neds genuinely are from working-class areas and aren't playing at or co-opting street style from somewhere else.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:23 AM
gay married couples with kids from a best friend-cum-surrogate
For some reason this usage of "-cum-" always cracks me up. [/beavis]
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:26 AM
Wham! "Choose Life" sweatshirts and day-glo short-shorts with 3-day stubble are the only true way to freak out the modern jaded urbanite and deeply disturb one's parents.
God, that look scared me enough back in high school. It would be a terrifying acid flashback to see it now.
I remember asking a girl at my high school what exactly she thought the oversized "choose life" t-shirt meant, and she said, no kidding, "You know, its about choice, and life." Really.
Posted by rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:27 AM
Stereotypical small-town southern mullet-wearing white trash
Hey don't talk dirt about 'Postropher!
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:27 AM
I have two technical things to say that are totally unrelated to this thread:
(1) just fyi, I always see this at the bottom the the comments page:
"Odd number of elements in hash assignment at lib/MT/App/Comments.pm line 68.
Use of uninitialized value in list assignment at lib/MT/App/Comments.pm line 68."
(2) A long time ago in a galaxy far away, I remember there was some way to have the comments, upon reopening to see new additions, open to right where you left off last time you were reading. I just now remembered that this feature was once available, how handy it was, and was wondering how/why it disappeared.
Just to not be totally off-topic here -- kids with extreme facial piercings still freak me out. Not in a "scarred for my physical safety" sort of way, but in a "what the hell is the matter with you?" kind of way.
Oddly, 45 year old men with similarly freakish facila piercings don't bother in the same way. Probably because I don't look at them and see a future of lost opportunities....
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:28 AM
Or a semi-tropical paradise like the northeast today. Why is there so much humidity and when can we send it somewhere else?
I read that New York article at the gym once and it amused me. Like 'adulthood' is set in stone by the boomer generation, who, I'm sure, as soon as they turned 35, emulated their greatest-generation parents perfectly. Psst, magazine. Styles can change and you can be a grown-up and listen to music. Aren't you a damn style mag?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:28 AM
re: 116
Shouldn't that last "really" be "rilly"? If going for the retro-80s vibe?
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:28 AM
Probabilities to them are certainties to you.
Posted by Jonathan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:29 AM
Probabilities to them are certainties to you.
Sez you.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:32 AM
117: Yeah, I'm not from a small town!
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:32 AM
Shouldn't that last "really" be "rilly"?
It should be rlmente.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:34 AM
Yeah, 'chav' isn't about middle-class kids trying to be 'gangsta' or 'street' and there isn't, I suspect, a nice easy US analogue. . . . Many/most of the people labelled as chavs or neds genuinely are from working-class areas and aren't playing at or co-opting street style from somewhere else.
I really think the US analogue is inner-city youth, usually but not exclusively black or latino (I've seen white and east asian versions, for example), with lots of designer labels, big gold jewelry, tricked-out cars, the latest phones and ringtones, expensive liquor brands, etc.
A lot of the look/style is about conspicuous consumption and about not being ashamed of, and indeed actively and loudly playing up, your underclass status in the face of snobbery: "Yeah I'm a lout/thug, so what? What you gonna do about it?"
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:45 AM
My sense of 'chav' is 'gangsta absent a racial dynamic.'
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:49 AM
You're probably right that the "trailer trash and proud" thing here is something similar in terms of attitude, I just don't see the same focus on designer brands and labels that's characteristic of the chav and ghetto fabulous styles.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:50 AM
126: I don't know that there are comfortable middle class kids in the UK trying to look all chav, though.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:52 AM
88: No, no, I'm not talking about the teacher role. The teacher role requires one to not be cool, or you lose all fucking authority over the little twerps.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:58 AM
"twerps" s/b "dears"
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:02 PM
"dears" s/b "brats"
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:03 PM
114: Hence, "gangsta." Duh.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:04 PM
132, see 128. Also, I'm not sure chavs are really copying the gangsta look, although there are some similar elements. And it's not just about clothes. Plus, stereotypical chav music is not hip-hop, it's dance.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:10 PM
112 - I'm not getting my New York magazine subscription while I'm in Virginia. You'll probably see a bunch of belated "OMG! The idiocy!" posts related to NYMag articles around, oh, July 19.
About the "grups" article (the one about people over 35 who won't grow up), the neighbors we went with to Dave Matthews (no need to tell me DMB sucks, read the link) brought along their 2 year-old kid. I was trying to figure out if that made us accessories to hopeless adult-grup-toolishness but it didn't feel like it at all. It all kind of worked without being obnoxious. I think it's only because our neighbors aren't annoying hipsters but earnest, down-to-earth, blue-collar folk.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:15 PM
Fine, gangsta + dance music. Of course it's gonna change a bit in translation, but if you don't think that that look is borrowing from American black hip-hop you're deeply delusional.
Re. surf style in landlocked states: shut up, all of you. We totally dress PK in little Hawiian shirts and the like, b/c they go with his long hair and b/c most little boy clothes are ugly and b/c we miss home, y'all. SO THERE.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:18 PM
and b/c we miss home
Not much surfing in the valley, either. Where you gonna go, Don Pedro?
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:20 PM
re: 135
I'm sure there are elements of borrowing from US hip-hop but much less than you think. Elements of that look have been around here for a very long time. Kids were looking a lot like that where I grew up a long time before hip-hop went mainstream in the UK and the look comes as much out of a combination of late 80s acid-house, 'madchester' and early 80s 'casual' looks.
I don't think central Scottish neds (the north-of-the-border equivalent of 'chavs') really reference hip-hop much at all or if they do its in a way that's been filtered through a lot of other layers first. They may listen to Eminem and 50 cent but they *looked* that way years before either even existed (as a recording artist).
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:27 PM
Of course it's gonna change a bit in translation, but if you don't think that that look is borrowing from American black hip-hop you're deeply delusional.
Agreed, there's borrowing going on in terms of the look, but saying chav is "gangsta + dance music" is overly reductive and inaccurate.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:30 PM
It doesn't have to be derivative of gangsta to be strongly parallel to it -- a lower-class culture of unapologetically appropriating upper-class consumer goods can easily have arisen spontaneously in both countries.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:32 PM
re: 139
It's a long running strand in British working-class culture. 1970s darts players all looked like modern hip-hop artists [I am totally not kidding] in expensive leisure-wear and gold. I've seen the argument made -- in jest -- that the whole of hip-hop style is defined by working class British pub-game fashion of the late 70s.
The early 80s casual scene was all about rocking various obscure or hard to get Italian and French labels.
60s working class hard-cases in cities like Glasgow wore expensive suits and jewellery.
And on and on and on.
The designer clothes + bling thing is emphatically not an import from the US.
Nor, even, is the expensive trainers and tracksuit thing. I remember in the late 70s kids making a big deal about their new Adidas or Gola trainers and not having the 'cool' trainers made you an object of scorn. All of that predates hip-hop's arrival in the UK.
That's not to say there's no influence at all but to claim that the 'chav' look is some kind of UK response to hip-hop fashion is to completely misunderstand it.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:44 PM
134: Free associating from DMB, Ann Coulter is a Deadhead. I wonder, given her obvious inability to string together a couple of sentences without saying something calumnious about liberals, if it casues her trouble in her day to day life.
Ann: How much for an orange mocha frappucino?
Barista: What size orange mocha frappucino?
Ann: A medium liberals love terrorists please.
Barista: I'm sorry, I missed that.
Ann: Tell me how much a medium Monica Lewinsky blew Bill Clinton in the oval office would be?
Barista: Ms., you can't use that sort of language here.
Ann: Traitor.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:45 PM
w/d, that rocks like granite.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 12:55 PM
Ann Coulter is a Deadhead
Actually, there's another band that Ann likes better.
Posted by s/ck p/ppet | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:00 PM
Wow -- that's enough to put somebody off the Dead.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:00 PM
But then Ann Coulter breathing is enough to put somebody off oxygen, if she were interviewed about it anyways.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:01 PM
Dead fans in general are reason enough to put anyone off the Dead.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:02 PM
If we're honest, we'll admit that the Dead are enough to put anyone off of the Dead.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:04 PM
Dead fans in general
Sure -- but only rarely in particular
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:04 PM
147: I'm honest. Scrupously so, in this case.
139: Well said (as usual), LB.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:06 PM
139: Yeah, sorry, I was really meaning to call chavs more a parallel to the US gangsta and white trash groups than a derivative. Even if I clearly said otherwise earlier in the thread, ignore that, I meant to be correct.
Also, that New York Magazine article kind of riled me. It has a lot of good rules of thumb for urban living, but I also despise the openly sexist etiquette suggestions.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:07 PM
147 -- I could be honest without saying that.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:08 PM
150 should begin with "140", not "139"
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:08 PM
It doesn't have to be derivative of gangsta to be strongly parallel to it -- a lower-class culture of unapologetically appropriating upper-class consumer goods can easily have arisen spontaneously in both countries.
Hence the Zoot Suiters, Teddy Boys, and Chinese Construction Workers mentioned above.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:08 PM
22: You'd better see them while you still can, Becks.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:09 PM
But . . . whatever shall Becks do? Wherever shall she go??
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:11 PM
154: God fuck it.
Posted by strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:11 PM
Now that they've broken up, I should probably buy an album.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:14 PM
Q: How many deadheads does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None — they don't change it; they wait for it to burn out and follow it around for twenty years.
Posted by Stanley | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:14 PM
Don't know their music but: this seems pretty classy to me. Going out on a high note, with an enthusiastic fan base -- seems to me like they should be able to transition pretty smoothly to solo careers and continue to make good music. (Assuming based on the positive reviews from people I respect, that their music actually is good.)
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:17 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:17 PM
154: I can't believe it, but I feel bad for Becks. That seems like a gut punch bit of news to get.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:18 PM
FUCK! FUCK! FUCK!
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:19 PM
the Dead are enough to put anyone off of the Dead.
This gets it exactly wrong. Oh SCMT, why do you hate America so much?
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:21 PM
OK, I kind of figured this might be coming because they've been flirting around the issue for a long time and they practically had to drag Corin kicking and screaming to do The Woods. That's one of the reasons I went out to SF and snatched up tickets to the East Coast shows.
BUT STILL!! THIS SUCKS!!
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:21 PM
154: WHAT?!?
This just fuckin bites! And I really didn't want to go to Lollapolooza, but I haven't seen them live yet.
I'm going to go cry with Becks now.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:21 PM
Don't worry, Becks. I'm pretty sure the Dave Matthews Band is still going strong.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:22 PM
And at least they didn't all go down in a plane crash or something. Jeez people, a little perspective!
They'll be doing a reunion tour before you know it. Why just this past month I've seen both the Violent Femmes and Echo & the Bunnymen. Sonic Youth too, but then they never really broke up.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:26 PM
Just to be clear, the second sentence of 167 is not at all earnest.
I don't want anyone's grief-clouded eyes misinterpreting me.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:28 PM
142: A calacompliment! Thanks.
The Grateful Dead suck like Primus sucks.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:28 PM
Granite rocks like marble rocks.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:30 PM
Yeah, maybe it will be like Ogged retiring. After a while, they'll get bored (or cancer), they'll realize they miss the interaction with the fans, and you'll be able to see them opening for REO Speedwagon on a cruiseship.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:31 PM
>About the "grups" article (the one about people over 35 who won't grow up), the neighbors we went with to Dave Matthews (no need to tell me DMB sucks, read the link) brought along their 2 year-old kid.
I took my pre-school age kids to see bands at free concerts and the like but they usually aren't that excited . They do like gnarls barkley in star wars outfits though.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:31 PM
They'll be doing a reunion tour before you know it. Why just this past month I've seen both the Violent Femmes and Echo & the Bunnymen. Sonic Youth too, but then they never really broke up.
Yeah, but I always feel kind of fake watching the reunion, even if I wasn't alive during the band's actual heyday (as in Echo & the Bunnymen, Mission of Burma, Os Mutantes, and, well, everyone else who's cool and now touring again). It also really feels like I'm just watching the facsimile of the original, a bunch of older people going through the motions of 20-year-old glory.
Now I'm all depressed again.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:33 PM
JAC, I don't remember where you are but tickets are still available for Philly and NYC and haven't gone on sale yet for DC. I bet they're going to get snatched up right quick when word starts to spread. Apo scooped the S-K blogs I read on this so I don't know how far the word is out yet.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:34 PM
172: I like Gnarls Barkley period. The Stars Wars outfits is just gravy. Extra special point for Chewbaca drumming.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:35 PM
Speaking of Gnarls Barkley...
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:36 PM
>Yeah, but I always feel kind of fake watching the reunion, even if I wasn't alive during the band's actual heyday (as in Echo & the Bunnymen, Mission of Burma, Os Mutantes, and, well, everyone else who's cool and now touring again). It also really feels like I'm just watching the facsimile of the original, a bunch of older people going through the motions of 20-year-old glory.
I got Mission of Burma and Os Mutantes tickets. Plus, Vashti Banyun for the combination of fakeness and novelty.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:39 PM
174: I'm in Chicago, that's why I'm pouting, especially since I currently wouldn't have anyone to crash with in NYC for the purposes of music tourism. Otherwise, I'd be going to Les Savy Fav's free pool party July 9th for sure.
177: Yeah, I'm going to Pitchfork festival as well, the rest of the line-up should be fantastic. I completely geeked out when they announced Liars joining the bill, since I adored their show here a couple weeks ago.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:45 PM
178: Bleh! I am missing both Pitchfork and Lollapallooza because I will be out of the country for work. I would be going to them both, and this sad news makes it
SO MUCH WORSE.
Bleh, I say.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:49 PM
I do feel much less insane now for embarking on the three-nights-in-a-row Philly/DC/NYC trip I had planned. Too bad it will be the last.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 1:52 PM
But neither rock like Fraggles rock.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 2:04 PM
three rocks.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 2:22 PM
three rocks.
Posted by Ernie Bushmiller | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 2:27 PM
three rocks.
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 2:30 PM
Three rocks.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 2:38 PM
four rocks.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 2:48 PM
I Rock.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 2:53 PM
I would like to second everything Becks has to say re: S-K breaking up, especially 162.
Posted by rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 5:06 PM
They Rock.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 5:43 PM
even if I wasn't alive during the band's actual heyday (as in Echo & the Bunnymen
Jesus Christ, is this possible?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 6:01 PM
They're children here, Matt. Children.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 6:04 PM
With Wolfson traipsing around Europe, Labs off fighting the zombies of political correctness, and Weiner leaving in a Kangaroo's pouch or something, it appears there is only Cala left to make sure I don't make false or otherwise improper philosophical claims. Oh, I guess Rob H-C has been around more often lately. I say this in light of 51, which I think is fine, but not really any better than my just copying the wikipedia examples about the number of letters in 'copper,' not in copper.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 6:06 PM
I thought 51 was a clever example. Punk.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 6:11 PM
Thanks, though I just looked back and realized I forgot to change the repition so that it would match the original. Stupid revisions. And there doesn't seem to have been any need for me to capitalize 'kangaroo' in 192.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 6:23 PM
w/d, Primus is from El Sobrante. They could never, ever suck, not even ironically.
Fallingwater, however, according to a friend of my mom's who housesat it for a summer, is always dank and mosquito-ridden, due to the stream running through the living room. It's pretty in pictures, though, and I quite like some of his other houses.
And to pick up another, earlier theme of the thread. I've had plenty of bad experiences with particular individuals of The Greatful Dead. I'll never forget how a mourner for Jerry Garcia totally accosted me and presumed that I felt his pain, when I was just peaceably sitting on the sidewalk, waiting for my friends to come out of the communal nudist hottub in the Berkeley suburbs. That old guy totally harshed my mellow!
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 6:53 PM
They could never, ever suck, not even ironically
Primus and their fans use to disagree. I've never seen them, though I have seen one or two of Les Claypool's side projects.
Do the suburbs also count as the People's Republic?
Fallingwater...is always dank and mosquito-ridden
I took a tour and I don't remember that, but I don't really remember anything else about the tour either.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:05 PM
I have no opinion on Primus, but I don't see how being from El Sobrante can earn someone an exemption.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:10 PM
Local boys! Who bring on the funk! (In other words, I have absolutely no objectivity on the subject.)
By Berkeley suburbs, in this case, I meant somewhere around Cedar and Telegraph. Quiet streets, wood-shingled houses, elm trees. I wish I still knew where the communal nudist hottub was, and what the code is these days. That place was awesome. (It had a strict no-talking-at-all rule, which seemed to work.)
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:17 PM
What I remember about the Fallingwater tour: when someone in the group remarked on how small the doorframes were, the guide said that that was because people were shorter back then.
Posted by dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:27 PM
200!
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:30 PM
Cedar and Telegraph don't intersect. I think you still know where the house is and are hiding it.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:30 PM
Is anyone else having problems loading and reloading the blog today? I find myself having to reload multiple times to get to the end of some of the threads.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:35 PM
We should have a nudist hottub thread, with a strict no-commenting policy.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:36 PM
It'll be located near two posts that are on different sides of the blog.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:37 PM
Oh, crap, you totally caught me. Cedar, what the hell was I thinking? What's the one that is actually Highway 13, that goes by Cafe Strata at College? Anyway, somewhere closer to the Rockridge area; southwest Berkeley, somewhereabouts.
It was awesome, man, really fucking far-out. Until those damned deadheads showed up, of course.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:38 PM
Is anyone else having problems loading and reloading the blog today? I find myself having to reload multiple times to get to the end of some of the threads.
You might find it easier to get to the end of the thread if you just relax and let things happen.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 7:45 PM
Maybe I should try pressing F5 at different angles.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:14 PM
Cala left to make sure I don't make false or otherwise improper philosophical claims.
Oh, how you presume I have a clue.
You might find it easier to get to the end of the thread if you just relax and let things happen.
I've been having some problems where it loads the first three or four comments and then stops -- with the comment box and everything -- but if I scroll down I get to the last comment. Not sure where the error lies.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:16 PM
I think Ashby is 13 and Ashby and College could get you close to leafy residential areas. I don't have a very distinct image of that side of the city, though.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:17 PM
On an unrelated note, my memory of visiting Rietveld's Schroder House centers on how long and dull the experience was, a feeling fueled only in part by the fact that the guide spoke only in Dutch. The most humiliating moment was when the American contingent of the group attempted to sneakily retreat away from the tour and out of the house only to discover the front door was locked from the outside. We had to climb back upstairs to face the disapproving stares of the German tourists. We wanted to say, "Screw you, we're art historians," but were too ashamed.
Later, stopping at a shop nearby, we chatted with some local Dutch girls working there. The topic of why we were visiting came up, and someone admitted, "The Schroder House is really boring." "Oh, I know!" one of them replied. "They take us there every year in school. I'm so sick of it!" We agreed.
Posted by JL | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:19 PM
Yes! Ashby is what I meant. Ashby and Telegraph is very nice, but was just emerging from just a little bit seedy about when Jerry died. The nudist communal hottub was around there, maybe a bit north.
(Everywhere I grew up thinking were slums are now unaffordable.)
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 8:22 PM
136: He has a Guayabera too. Anyway, the idea is "home-ish." Also, "does it lack a superhero? Cool."
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:03 PM
Maybe I should try pressing F5 at different angles.
There's some dispute as to whether the F5 key exists.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:11 PM
Best just to focus on the mouse controller thingy between G and H.
(Disclaimer: This comment might be funny if I could find the appropriate link.)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:30 PM
Oh how cute. While 500ing the "Window" menu include "Loading Unfogged Happy Fun Page!"
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:31 PM
Best just to focus on the mouse controller thingy between G and H.
I love my pointer nubbin.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 9:41 PM
I babelfished 215 into French and back, to see if it would make more sense, and got:
I'm surprised that it didn't catch "fenêtre" on the rebound.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:17 PM
I babelfished 215 into French and back
Dude.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:22 PM
to see if it would make more sense
This is the part I don't get.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:25 PM
215 was intended to convey "After I hit 'Post', when I look at the 'Window' menu, one of the windows is listed as 'Loading Unfogged Happy Fun Page!'" Or, more perlocutionarily, "Safari sucks." But it came out with that computer-translated feel.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:29 PM
I understood what 215 meant, I just didn't know why you thought more computer translation would reduce the computer-translated feel. Inflecting your verbs would be a better method.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 10:44 PM
215 was one of the most realistic fake Engrish sentences I'd ever read, until Matt went and blamed it on his computer.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:08 PM
Please to include the happy kitten page for great lucky.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:09 PM
221: I was more trying to say that because of my ineptitude in 215 (done by hand, apo!) it couldn't have reduced it. In a hyperbolic kind of way.
cross-commented to Standpipe's blog (comment 40)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:15 PM
You actually babelfished it, though. That's commitment to a bit.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:17 PM
Never let it be said that I lack follow-through.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06-27-06 11:19 PM