No, wait! My mistake! That's just the post where reasonable centrist and law professor Glenn Reynolds proposed that the US provides financial aid to terrorists who attack European civilians. So, so sorry.
Honestly, though, I think the solution to this dilemma is to just not care. We shouldn't protest this, because we really shouldn't care what the homophobes think. Don't defend, and don't get mad because it's just too trivial. If anything, do what comes natural - yawn.
5: No, not really. Stating a true public fact about someone, that they say about themselves, is neither hostile nor wrong regardless of the fact that there are people who are prejudiced about it. Tsk-tsking as you spread false claims about someone is wrong, even though there wouldn't be anything wrong about it if it were true.
If Insty were linking to something and said "Huh, I didnt know Kos was gay," -- that is, if he were reporting a neutral public fact (even if he were mistaken) -- that wouldn't be nasty. But repeating and publicizing what is intended to be a scurrilous insult while playing innocent about how he's just asking people to stop it? Nasty.
7: I don't think this is right. Rising above the nastiness hasn't served us well in the past. Pointing out that people like Insty are horrible petty smear-artists is, I think, more effective than not dignifying it with a response. You have to work the refs.
It's not the same, but it's similar: I think the point of referencing it, for Kerry-Edwards, was to get it out there that Mary Cheney was gay. Deep down inside, I don't really care. I want to win. I really don't care if they do it to Kos; I don't think many people who like Kos care if he was gay or not.
But who can you address? Your own choir already knows Reynolds is a hateful, moral cretin. People who like Reynolds are going to read him sympathetically, and you unsympathetically. (And I actually think Reynolds is *stupid* enough that his intent here might not be bad. I'm not at all sure that he's this cunning)
I doubt Kos gives a whit about this whisper campaign. And it doesn't trigger any buttons with me.
And I would place my money on the bet that responding to this will fan the flames; laughing it off will cause it to choke for lack of fuel.
And I would place my money on the bet that responding to this will fan the flames; laughing it off will cause it to choke for lack of fuel.
The thing about an insult like this is that fanning the flames is sort of a profit. I'm sure Kos doesn't give a damn if anyone thinks he's gay -- if this were printed on the front page of the Washington Post tomorrow it wouldn't make a bit of difference to his life. Making a fuss about the fact that the biggest Republican blogger out there is making ugly little innuendos, on the other hand, is good practice for response to more important smears.
(And I actually think Reynolds is *stupid* enough that his intent here might not be bad. I'm not at all sure that he's this cunning)
No one is that stupid. If you're really telling people not to repeat nasty rumors, you don't do it by repeating the rumor yourself in a much more prominent place.
I do not see how anyone reasonably could draw the inference you have drawn from what Reynolds wrote unless they were operating under the assumption that everything he wrote and said was motivated by the basest and most vile of motives. But if that's the case, everythng he writes is subject to the same inference, so why not just write, "Glenn Reynolds is evil" and avoid the pretext of interpreting something specific?
I repeat what I said in 19: No one is that stupid. If you're really telling people not to repeat nasty rumors, you don't do it by repeating the rumor yourself in a much more prominent place.
Am I missing something? I didn't click through the link, so maybe there is something in the context that makes this seem icky. But just the excerpted paragaph seems totally unobjectionable to me. And your "paraphrasing" of the excerpt seems waaay off in tone and intent. To me it really reads more like he thinks it's really childish and stupid that people are questioning Kos' sexual orientation, and is pointing out that -- for those ignorants who seem to think it matters -- that he has good personal evidence that Kos is, indeed, heterosexual. So they should cut it out.
Again, maybe I'm missing something by not clicking through, but it sounds like he genuinely trying to cut these rumors off, not fan the flames.
Of course I never read Reynolds, so maybe I'm giving him too much of the benefit if the doubt.
I actually don't see that Insty is pulling the "people think Kos is gay" thing--what I see is the "Kos isn't gay because he fucks his wife" thing (which imho is even grosser). The real point, which Insty only makes in passing, is that whether someone is gay or not shouldn't matter and that people who use that as a slur are bigots. Which is the thing Insty doesn't say.
"Perhaps it’s because we’re blogging from the heart of San Francisco, but something tells us that Kos is gay. *gasp* Our well-calibrated ‘gay-dar’ is picking up a pursy lisp, a sash, two snaps and a twist."
The paragraph I quoted is all there is. Try clicking through on the link to Digby's take on it -- again, Insty took a smear that was in blog comments somewhere, possibly read by dozens of people, and made sure that his whole readership was aware of it. That's not genuinely trying to cut off a rumor.
If you're really telling people not to repeat nasty rumors, you don't do it by repeating the rumor yourself in a much more prominent place.
But he's not just repeating the rumor. He's stating the rumor and then offering strong evidence for its falsity. And then saying "your rumor is childish, stop it." For an influential voice to say such a think I would think would do more to dampen the flames than fan them.
Fuck, I agree with Ideal. That is, I would write the post in a more conditional way. Something like:
Glenn Reynolds writes X.
Everyone agrees it's a good thing to deny rumors about your political opponents that you believe to be false. But the way Glenn has done so is very likely to bring the rumor in front of more eyeballs. If he intended to do this, he is evil. If he didn't intend to do this, he should think more about the effect of what he says.
But I've seen people speculate that Kos is gay. Dunno why, and when I met him we talked about our partners and kids, so I was kind of surprised that people thought he was gay. But I'm not surprised that Insty says he's heard these rumors too.
Before I get yelled at, I do understand that a gay man may be married and sleep with his wife, so my "strong evidence" in 26 wasn't really accurate -- I should have said something more like "what his audience would perceive as strong evidence".
Well, but what makes you think that his audience's perception of 'strong evidence' is different from yours? This looks to me more like telling people to stop spreading a childish rumor, and offering weak evidence of its falsity.
You know, I'm not really knowledgeable about this "sexual identity" thingie the kids are talking about all the time these days, but I have heard that there is a kind of man (called "buy" for some reason) who is capable of fathering children even though he's "gay".
I see some blog commenters speculating that Insty eats his own poo. Why that should matter, I don't know. But I've never personally seen him eat poo, and to the contrary, commisserated with him over a case of indigestion caused, I believe, by food that was not poo. My wife and I had several conversations assuring him that his tummy would feel better. It probably wasn't cholera.
"There has never been any solid confirmation of the rumors that Dubya molested his two duaghters, and I think we should just quit talking about it."
But it really seems like this is not at all analogous to what he said. He said something more like "It's absolutely ridiculous that there are rumors that Dubya molested his daughters. Look, I may not agree with Dubya's policies, but I've talked to his daughters and some of his close family friends and they all laugh this off as wild speculation. Please, don't spread these silly fabrications; it cheapens our national political debate."
There's a big difference between the two. Especially when the rumors about Kos are, in fact, circulating.
The thing is that someone who said something like this:
"It's absolutely ridiculous that there are rumors that Dubya molested his daughters. Look, I may not agree with Dubya's policies, but I've talked to his daughters and some of his close family friends and they all laugh this off as wild speculation. Please, don't spread these silly fabrications; it cheapens our national political debate."
in a public forum, would still be spreading the scurrilous rumor. It doesn't matter that you deny it, it only matters that you spread it to people who hadn't heard it.
I agree with Ideal over LB about an Insty post, Martin Peretz writes a reasonably good editorial which endorses Gore and doesn't question the humanity of Palestinians, and the price of ice drops dramatically due to a new glut of supply.
Eh, given that Ideal, Urple, Bitch, and w/d all disagree with me about the interpretation here, I could be wrong. But click through and read digby -- I was convinced.
Are the Reynolds bashers kidding here? What he wrote isn't just unobjectionable, it's gracious and I think totally sincere. The quoted paragraph is in the middle of a post defending Kos from accusations of corruption, so it hardly seems strange that he'd defend him from another charge floating around. And if you're going to impute backwardness to his readers, you have to go all the way: saying that Kos is married and has a kid carries a lot of weight with the unenlightened, doesn't it?
Okay, well let me put it this way. I'd never before heard the rumor that Kos was gay. Now, having read Glenn's post, and having been exposed to the "rumor", I'd say I think it less likely that Kos is gay than I did 30 minutes ago (when I'd never thought about it before in my life). I guess I'm just assuming most people would have a similar reaction, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.
Not that it matters either way, of course, though I doubt that needs to be said.
And let's not be silly debaters: yes, married men with children might be gay, but if you take two people who are just as prissy as Markos, one a single guy and the other a married father, it's a lot less likely that the married dad is gay.
But to keep on fighting for my right to call Insty a nasty little pig -- the thing is that accusations that a man is gay are an awfully common feature of unpleasant political conversation. You name a politician, I'll bet I can find you an example of someone calling him a fag. Pulling that sort of background noise up onto the front page of an incredibly well-trafficked blog only makes sense if you're trying to give the impression that it's a serious topic of discussion.
I don't think there's much objectionable with the post in isolation. It's not attempting to insinuate anything sneakily.
But that said, assuming that this was a small comment box speculation and nothing more, it's a little sleazy to give it more airtime because it's very easy to trumpet the 'slur' while pretending to disavow it. It could have been done in the small comment box.
But I'm not sure how small it was. I hadn't heard of it, but background noise that leads to e-mail speculation or small posts on other blogs could be damaging and I suspect Reynolds probably was just enjoying that his blog is big enough to squelch little rumors.
But yeah, if the links Emerson is coming up with are the sort of thing Insty is objecting to, they aren't rumors, they're insults. Treating them as rumors and tsk-tsking them is just spreading them.
Eh, it's pretty far down in a post that's totally on something else. I had to read the thing twice to find it, and I had LB's quotation so I knew what I was looking for, even. I really don't think it's an attempted slur.
I know there are many, many reasons to be irritated by Glenn Reynolds, but I'm on the ogged/idealist/tim/b/etc. side. One could reconstruct the thought like this: there's a pretty strong presumption in favor of the straightness of a youngish guy who's married and trying hard to have children, so it's likely that any gay rumor would be less justified than its negation.
Ogged, I think that "queeny" email was to me, back in the day. I was too distracted by your balls bouncing off my chin to read it, though.
One odd thing about all this is that a few weeks ago, I decided to quit blogging about politics and to quit reading political blogs after a look at instapundit. I just can't take this stuff anymore.
Another thing to note for the record: the t-shirt photoshop is funny, to the extent that it is, because Reynolds is about the straightest man on the planet. I mean that in the pejorative sense, of course.
Insty fires off half-cocked an awful lot, though. Maybe there was insufficient evidence of this becoming a real meme, but operating like that is nothing new to him. And perhaps he was genuinely offended by the rumors/insults. Insty has a slightly-better-than-Ann-Coulter understanding of what a "liberal" is, but at least he seems to be becoming aware of some of the distasteful elements of the conservative faction.
An unsophisticated reader might take "your balls bouncing off my chin" to mean that Labs like to suck my cock, and though that's not untrue, what he's really saying to the readers that matter is that my balls no longer clang off his chin. Thanks Labs, so good to hear from you again.
I am worked up because there is an obvious organized effort being begun to destroy the DKos node of the lefty-sphere. Kos can laugh, but Armando is gone and Armstrong has been damaged. The right has the media at their backs. This is serious. Ezra and Lindsay should prepare.
It is an old boast, but nevertheless one that Lizard has shown is still relevant today: "Show me six lines written by any man, and I will find therein sufficient evidence with which to hang him."
Free Carlsbergs to the person who identifies the source of the original quote.
Accusations of homosexuality go back thousands of years. Cicero, no friend of Julius Caesar, didn't think that Caesar was effeminant, but rather said that any handsome man who became the subject of public attention would gather such comments.
What Glen did was state that he didn't think that it was true, and further, gave some supporting evidence. The links were provided as little pins to deflate their bubbles. Commenters probably pointed out their error, and suppose that one of the links didn't work anymore because the author was embarassed enough to take down the thread.
I am amazed at the poor reading skills shown by the products of the US government school system. I am glad that I home school my two younger children.
state that he didn't think that it was true, and further, gave some supporting evidence
So, are you saying, that because of his providing support to truth of his proposition, that that somehow deflates any accusations about his dubious motives?
'Cause that doesn't even make sense, and is wrong.
Clambone, rather silly to think that Glen proposed that the US should provide aid to terrorists.
Rather, he suggested that those who provide aid to terrorists probably already consider what would happen if the US responded in kind. Such nations have more fragile government structures than the US.
at my government school system we learned that a writer could phrase a sentence to mean something very different from what it purports to say. I guess they screwed me up good on reading comprehension.
Why is Instapundit a "creep" because he is refuting said rumours?
And why does Lizardbreath think that "gay" is some sort of insult? Oops, looks like Lizardbreath is the bigot here with self-mangling convoluted logic and implodes spectacularly.
you misunderstand, 180. LizardBreath wants Kos on our team, don't you get it, of merry gayness, to more effectively tarnish the sanctity of marriage. Insty's trying to pull him off the gaywagon with all this mention of "wives" and "miscarriages." Of course we're also bigots.
And by the way, well done on the spectacular implosion, LB! I wouldn't have thought you swung that way, what with all the tender moments we spent together discussing Kos' miscarriages. Why that should matter, I don't know.
No amount of flatulence from you retards changes the fact that Lizardbreath got spectacularly PWNED! Too funny. Continue your sardonic waffling, it is hilarious to watch.
oops did I say obvious twice. Tautological, but effective. The better to pound your glaring ignorance of the word 'aliterate' into your chitin plated skulls.
Okay, I admit it. 180 is me. I'm just fucking with you all. I'm not really going to make waffles for anyone, unless that's a sexual euphamism, in which case I might be down.
'Aliterate' just means to refuse to read. e.g., '180 was quite capable of reading Lizardbreath's post and the ensuing comment thread, however, his habitual aliteracy possessed him because he left his talking points in his other pants.'
I still don't know how to waffle sardonically. But I like pancakes better, so that's okay.
(PS: 180 isn't really me ... that was a joke, hopefully obvious. Although if 180 turns out to be posting from my IP address the shit. will. hit. the. fan.)
Cala just looked the word up and realised what an idiot she was. Now trying to redeem herself by cleverly constructing a sentence with her newly expanded vocabulary.
Try expanding your nostrils oxygen deprived imbecile, maybe you won't sound like a retard next time.
Somewhere in a file my dad I think my dad still has the best cover letter ever written by a job applicant. The guy had obviously done a draft and then gone over it with a thesaurus, leading to marvellous bits like "I am blatantly qualified for this position" and many many more.
'Aliterate' isn't a 20 dollar word (though, given the context, I think he meant 'illiterate.') 'Tautological' is worth about $12.75, but our troll misused it.
Stanckleberry my good man! Come give us a kiss! We've got this great fellow, 180, who's just showed up. I'm sure you two have lots to talk about over there in the corner.
"Qu'on me donne six lignes ecrites de la main du plus honnete homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.]
- attributed to,
by Fournier "L'Esprit dans l'Historie", ch. XLI, p. 255 (1883) "
I meant aliterate, you idiot. You still don't get it, do you? Your brain must be malfunctioning as you can't seem to read with any degree of comprehension. Indeed, you don't appear to be reading at all. Hence aliterate. Owned, retard.
what's that, 180? No, I don't know where Stankleberry went. I think he's off in the corner, far away, but I'm pretty sure he has something important to say to you.
but what I mean to say is, there's this great fellow: Stankleberry. We all get along with him so well. He wanted to make your acquaintance, 180, but I'm not sure where he went. Oh yes, he's over there, in the other room, far away from everyone else.
This little episode is further exposing some "progressives" for what they are....insane. We already know that blogs offer the individual a choice in reinforcing ones own opinions with ready-made echo-chambers. It is apparent that some use blogs to retreat from the responsibility of thought...particularly rational and critical. How one can come up with what Reynolds being anything other than what he actually wrote is partisan.....the lemmings dropping their minds at the door and willfully allowing their rationale thought processes to be co-opted is nothing but a measure of insanity, imo.
This phenomena occurs on the conservative or right side as well but this has reached new heights(or lows if you prefer) of mental deficiency. Black is white..up is down...I've always had my opinion of what political spectrum Orwell was railing against and am thinking it is starting to fit like a glove.
zenpig my good man! so good to see you! 180 and Stankleberry are over there in the corner, far away from everyone else. I think they had something they wanted to tell you.
Man, talk about agendas! Pretty clear that Glenn was saying
1) I DON'T think he is gay..., he is in a heterosexual marriage and has kids is at least some small indication that he isn't
2) But so what if he is, and
3) Vicious personal attacks are not called for.
But I 'll be damned if the normal tin hat crowd hasn't turned it into a slur and innuendo.
That's how warfare works, you send out the grunts first as cannon-fodder to wear down the enemy lines, and then follow-up with your skilled soldiers. Probably ideological warfare is no different. 180 and zenpig are just here to wear us down, and once we tire under their assault, the heavyweights will come and really start swinging. If we're not careful, we'll all be Republicans by morning.
This little episode is further exposing some "progressives" for what they are....insane.
Further? What was the earlier evidence?
We already know that blogs offer the individual a choice in reinforcing ones own opinions with ready-made echo-chambers.
I reinforced my house with a ready-made echo chamber last year. Unfortunately it is a vacuum so no sound travels in it.
It is apparent that some use blogs to retreat from the responsibility of thought...particularly rational and critical.
I agree that it is rational to retreat from the responsibility of thought, but how is it critical?
How one can come up with what Reynolds being anything other than what he actually wrote is partisan.....the lemmings dropping their minds at the door and willfully allowing their rationale thought processes to be co-opted is nothing but a measure of insanity, imo.
Note that it says "imo" and not "imho".
Also, why would a lemming drop its mind at a door?
Also, you spelled "rationale" wrong.
This phenomena occurs on the conservative or right side as well but this has reached new heights(or lows if you prefer) of mental deficiency.
"Phenomena" is plural, you mean "phenomenon".
Black is white..up is down...
I disagree.
I've always had my opinion of what political spectrum Orwell was railing against and am thinking it is starting to fit like a glove.
A spectrum wouldn't fit me like a glove.
I agree with your basic point, though.
The post seems to be a genuine attempt to convey the message that Instapundit disapproves of nonsensical accusations of homosexuality. If it was just an attempt to "get it out there", he wouldn't have included all the stuff that clearly indicated that Markos is married and desires children.
I would like to submit the following passage, an excerpt from comment 220, as the very essence of "fisking", that word meaning taking something your opponent says out of context and using it as a strawman:
Have I really gotten this far down into the thread with no one yet noting that this is the precise M.O. Glenn Reynolds has demonstrated for most of his online career? His entire writing style consists of presenting specious arguments, scurrilous accusations, tawdry insinuations, and paranoid right-wing rage in a thin veneer of moderation while simultaneously distancing them from his own "more-in-sadness-than-in-anger" persona through the use of framing links. He's the very model of disingenuous discourse.
And did we really need this to tell us that the man is a "nasty little pig" after his various comments on fat Katrina victims, the need to "make the Palestinians suffer," and the benefits of funding terror in Europe?
And did we really need this to tell us that the man is a "nasty little pig" after his various comments on fat Katrina victims, the need to "make the Palestinians suffer," and the benefits of funding terror in Europe?
Where's that photo of Insty in the incriminating t-shirt? I think you need to link to it in the post.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:00 PM
I don't know the shirt -- what was wrong with it?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:03 PM
Here it is:
http://instapundit.com/archives/013211.php
No, wait! My mistake! That's just the post where reasonable centrist and law professor Glenn Reynolds proposed that the US provides financial aid to terrorists who attack European civilians. So, so sorry.
Posted by Clambone | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:04 PM
It was a photoshop job, by FL I'm pretty sure, of Glen grinning that smarmy grin and his t-shirt said "I Heart Meaty Cocks".
Anyone know the code for that heart symbol?
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:05 PM
NB: This is a roughly similar criticism to that made about Kerry-Edwards references to Mary Cheney.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:07 PM
♥ , isn't it?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:07 PM
Honestly, though, I think the solution to this dilemma is to just not care. We shouldn't protest this, because we really shouldn't care what the homophobes think. Don't defend, and don't get mad because it's just too trivial. If anything, do what comes natural - yawn.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:07 PM
Test: ♥
7: For you, Michael, "yawn" s/b "bugg".
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:09 PM
Test successful!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:09 PM
Mitch, when you're involved, believe me that my natural response is *yawn*.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:11 PM
5: No, not really. Stating a true public fact about someone, that they say about themselves, is neither hostile nor wrong regardless of the fact that there are people who are prejudiced about it. Tsk-tsking as you spread false claims about someone is wrong, even though there wouldn't be anything wrong about it if it were true.
If Insty were linking to something and said "Huh, I didnt know Kos was gay," -- that is, if he were reporting a neutral public fact (even if he were mistaken) -- that wouldn't be nasty. But repeating and publicizing what is intended to be a scurrilous insult while playing innocent about how he's just asking people to stop it? Nasty.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:13 PM
7: I don't think this is right. Rising above the nastiness hasn't served us well in the past. Pointing out that people like Insty are horrible petty smear-artists is, I think, more effective than not dignifying it with a response. You have to work the refs.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:16 PM
It's not the same, but it's similar: I think the point of referencing it, for Kerry-Edwards, was to get it out there that Mary Cheney was gay. Deep down inside, I don't really care. I want to win. I really don't care if they do it to Kos; I don't think many people who like Kos care if he was gay or not.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:17 PM
Sure, this isn't a terribly big deal. It's just icky and disinglennuous.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:20 PM
It's really ridiculous. Kos is no more gay than FL or Ogged.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:22 PM
But who can you address? Your own choir already knows Reynolds is a hateful, moral cretin. People who like Reynolds are going to read him sympathetically, and you unsympathetically. (And I actually think Reynolds is *stupid* enough that his intent here might not be bad. I'm not at all sure that he's this cunning)
I doubt Kos gives a whit about this whisper campaign. And it doesn't trigger any buttons with me.
And I would place my money on the bet that responding to this will fan the flames; laughing it off will cause it to choke for lack of fuel.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:25 PM
Here's the proof. Kos is **very gay.**.
Kos is gay.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:26 PM
damn. who knew. he is gay.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:30 PM
And I would place my money on the bet that responding to this will fan the flames; laughing it off will cause it to choke for lack of fuel.
The thing about an insult like this is that fanning the flames is sort of a profit. I'm sure Kos doesn't give a damn if anyone thinks he's gay -- if this were printed on the front page of the Washington Post tomorrow it wouldn't make a bit of difference to his life. Making a fuss about the fact that the biggest Republican blogger out there is making ugly little innuendos, on the other hand, is good practice for response to more important smears.
(And I actually think Reynolds is *stupid* enough that his intent here might not be bad. I'm not at all sure that he's this cunning)
No one is that stupid. If you're really telling people not to repeat nasty rumors, you don't do it by repeating the rumor yourself in a much more prominent place.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:30 PM
I do not see how anyone reasonably could draw the inference you have drawn from what Reynolds wrote unless they were operating under the assumption that everything he wrote and said was motivated by the basest and most vile of motives. But if that's the case, everythng he writes is subject to the same inference, so why not just write, "Glenn Reynolds is evil" and avoid the pretext of interpreting something specific?
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:30 PM
I repeat what I said in 19: No one is that stupid. If you're really telling people not to repeat nasty rumors, you don't do it by repeating the rumor yourself in a much more prominent place.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:32 PM
Am I missing something? I didn't click through the link, so maybe there is something in the context that makes this seem icky. But just the excerpted paragaph seems totally unobjectionable to me. And your "paraphrasing" of the excerpt seems waaay off in tone and intent. To me it really reads more like he thinks it's really childish and stupid that people are questioning Kos' sexual orientation, and is pointing out that -- for those ignorants who seem to think it matters -- that he has good personal evidence that Kos is, indeed, heterosexual. So they should cut it out.
Again, maybe I'm missing something by not clicking through, but it sounds like he genuinely trying to cut these rumors off, not fan the flames.
Of course I never read Reynolds, so maybe I'm giving him too much of the benefit if the doubt.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:34 PM
I actually don't see that Insty is pulling the "people think Kos is gay" thing--what I see is the "Kos isn't gay because he fucks his wife" thing (which imho is even grosser). The real point, which Insty only makes in passing, is that whether someone is gay or not shouldn't matter and that people who use that as a slur are bigots. Which is the thing Insty doesn't say.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:36 PM
Three hits for "Kos is gay"
First hit is a comment:
"Perhaps it’s because we’re blogging from the heart of San Francisco, but something tells us that Kos is gay. *gasp* Our well-calibrated ‘gay-dar’ is picking up a pursy lisp, a sash, two snaps and a twist."
http://hotair.com/archives/the-blog/2006/05/18/nutroots-video-kos-makes-tv-political-ad-debut/
Commenter: California Conservative on May 18, 2006 at 1:03 PM
http://www.californiaconservative.org/
Second hit "does not exist":
http://xuo.xs4all.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=444471808df84ecee49040f529daed8f
Third hit is a wacko MYDD comment
http://chris-bowers.mydd.com/story/2005/2/7/05957/42266
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:37 PM
The paragraph I quoted is all there is. Try clicking through on the link to Digby's take on it -- again, Insty took a smear that was in blog comments somewhere, possibly read by dozens of people, and made sure that his whole readership was aware of it. That's not genuinely trying to cut off a rumor.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:37 PM
If you're really telling people not to repeat nasty rumors, you don't do it by repeating the rumor yourself in a much more prominent place.
But he's not just repeating the rumor. He's stating the rumor and then offering strong evidence for its falsity. And then saying "your rumor is childish, stop it." For an influential voice to say such a think I would think would do more to dampen the flames than fan them.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:38 PM
Fuck, I agree with Ideal. That is, I would write the post in a more conditional way. Something like:
Glenn Reynolds writes X.
Everyone agrees it's a good thing to deny rumors about your political opponents that you believe to be false. But the way Glenn has done so is very likely to bring the rumor in front of more eyeballs. If he intended to do this, he is evil. If he didn't intend to do this, he should think more about the effect of what he says.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:40 PM
But I've seen people speculate that Kos is gay. Dunno why, and when I met him we talked about our partners and kids, so I was kind of surprised that people thought he was gay. But I'm not surprised that Insty says he's heard these rumors too.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:40 PM
I think the past ten years have shown us there is great, unforeseen advantage to getting all riled up.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:41 PM
This is called "Getting it out there" and is a standard, well-known, transparent operative technique.
"There has never been any solid confirmation of the rumors that Dubya molested his two duaghters, and I think we should just quit talking about it."
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:41 PM
Before I get yelled at, I do understand that a gay man may be married and sleep with his wife, so my "strong evidence" in 26 wasn't really accurate -- I should have said something more like "what his audience would perceive as strong evidence".
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:41 PM
What if he paid money to strippers, Urple? Would that make him more or less manly?
(Don't hit me.)
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:44 PM
Well, but what makes you think that his audience's perception of 'strong evidence' is different from yours? This looks to me more like telling people to stop spreading a childish rumor, and offering weak evidence of its falsity.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:45 PM
You know, I'm not really knowledgeable about this "sexual identity" thingie the kids are talking about all the time these days, but I have heard that there is a kind of man (called "buy" for some reason) who is capable of fathering children even though he's "gay".
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:45 PM
I see some blog commenters speculating that Insty eats his own poo. Why that should matter, I don't know. But I've never personally seen him eat poo, and to the contrary, commisserated with him over a case of indigestion caused, I believe, by food that was not poo. My wife and I had several conversations assuring him that his tummy would feel better. It probably wasn't cholera.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:46 PM
"There has never been any solid confirmation of the rumors that Dubya molested his two duaghters, and I think we should just quit talking about it."
But it really seems like this is not at all analogous to what he said. He said something more like "It's absolutely ridiculous that there are rumors that Dubya molested his daughters. Look, I may not agree with Dubya's policies, but I've talked to his daughters and some of his close family friends and they all laugh this off as wild speculation. Please, don't spread these silly fabrications; it cheapens our national political debate."
There's a big difference between the two. Especially when the rumors about Kos are, in fact, circulating.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:48 PM
The thing is that someone who said something like this:
"It's absolutely ridiculous that there are rumors that Dubya molested his daughters. Look, I may not agree with Dubya's policies, but I've talked to his daughters and some of his close family friends and they all laugh this off as wild speculation. Please, don't spread these silly fabrications; it cheapens our national political debate."
in a public forum, would still be spreading the scurrilous rumor. It doesn't matter that you deny it, it only matters that you spread it to people who hadn't heard it.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:50 PM
I agree with Ideal over LB about an Insty post, Martin Peretz writes a reasonably good editorial which endorses Gore and doesn't question the humanity of Palestinians, and the price of ice drops dramatically due to a new glut of supply.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:51 PM
Eh, given that Ideal, Urple, Bitch, and w/d all disagree with me about the interpretation here, I could be wrong. But click through and read digby -- I was convinced.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:53 PM
Are the Reynolds bashers kidding here? What he wrote isn't just unobjectionable, it's gracious and I think totally sincere. The quoted paragraph is in the middle of a post defending Kos from accusations of corruption, so it hardly seems strange that he'd defend him from another charge floating around. And if you're going to impute backwardness to his readers, you have to go all the way: saying that Kos is married and has a kid carries a lot of weight with the unenlightened, doesn't it?
In short, what Idealist said.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:53 PM
And ogged.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:54 PM
Okay, well let me put it this way. I'd never before heard the rumor that Kos was gay. Now, having read Glenn's post, and having been exposed to the "rumor", I'd say I think it less likely that Kos is gay than I did 30 minutes ago (when I'd never thought about it before in my life). I guess I'm just assuming most people would have a similar reaction, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.
Not that it matters either way, of course, though I doubt that needs to be said.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:54 PM
And let's not be silly debaters: yes, married men with children might be gay, but if you take two people who are just as prissy as Markos, one a single guy and the other a married father, it's a lot less likely that the married dad is gay.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:57 PM
But to keep on fighting for my right to call Insty a nasty little pig -- the thing is that accusations that a man is gay are an awfully common feature of unpleasant political conversation. You name a politician, I'll bet I can find you an example of someone calling him a fag. Pulling that sort of background noise up onto the front page of an incredibly well-trafficked blog only makes sense if you're trying to give the impression that it's a serious topic of discussion.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:57 PM
two people who are just as prissy as Markos, one a single guy and the other a married father, it's a lot less likely that the married dad is gay.
Well, one, Markos, is a dad, and probably not gay. The other, Ogged, is not married. Hmm.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 4:58 PM
Also, for the record, despite knowing that Kos was married with a kid, I recall calling him "queeny" in an email to someone.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:01 PM
I suspect that the first of these is the rumors Instabozo was referring to.
http://newsbusters.org/node/5708
http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/weblog/comments/dowd_isnt_necessary/
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:02 PM
Man, has everybody but me met all the bigname bloggers in person? I've never met anyone.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:02 PM
43: Plus Kos is a total lefty. If he were gay, he'd obviously just divorce his wife and let her and the kids collect welfare.
In fact, gay or not, I'm really surprised he hasn't done that yet, what with the lefty plot to destroy marriage and all. Could Kos be a mole???
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:02 PM
ogged's support for Kaus makes him immediately suspect. I'm with Ideal, etc., I think.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:03 PM
I don't think there's much objectionable with the post in isolation. It's not attempting to insinuate anything sneakily.
But that said, assuming that this was a small comment box speculation and nothing more, it's a little sleazy to give it more airtime because it's very easy to trumpet the 'slur' while pretending to disavow it. It could have been done in the small comment box.
But I'm not sure how small it was. I hadn't heard of it, but background noise that leads to e-mail speculation or small posts on other blogs could be damaging and I suspect Reynolds probably was just enjoying that his blog is big enough to squelch little rumors.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:06 PM
50: Excellent. Now I feel more secure.
But yeah, if the links Emerson is coming up with are the sort of thing Insty is objecting to, they aren't rumors, they're insults. Treating them as rumors and tsk-tsking them is just spreading them.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:06 PM
Eh, it's pretty far down in a post that's totally on something else. I had to read the thing twice to find it, and I had LB's quotation so I knew what I was looking for, even. I really don't think it's an attempted slur.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:11 PM
Treating them as rumors and tsk-tsking them is just spreading them.
At the Mineshaft.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:13 PM
He's trying to insinuate that Kos's gay semen doesn't work as well as the straight kind, and that's why his wife had a miscarriage. What a cad.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:13 PM
I know there are many, many reasons to be irritated by Glenn Reynolds, but I'm on the ogged/idealist/tim/b/etc. side. One could reconstruct the thought like this: there's a pretty strong presumption in favor of the straightness of a youngish guy who's married and trying hard to have children, so it's likely that any gay rumor would be less justified than its negation.
Ogged, I think that "queeny" email was to me, back in the day. I was too distracted by your balls bouncing off my chin to read it, though.
One odd thing about all this is that a few weeks ago, I decided to quit blogging about politics and to quit reading political blogs after a look at instapundit. I just can't take this stuff anymore.
Another thing to note for the record: the t-shirt photoshop is funny, to the extent that it is, because Reynolds is about the straightest man on the planet. I mean that in the pejorative sense, of course.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:30 PM
Insty fires off half-cocked an awful lot, though. Maybe there was insufficient evidence of this becoming a real meme, but operating like that is nothing new to him. And perhaps he was genuinely offended by the rumors/insults. Insty has a slightly-better-than-Ann-Coulter understanding of what a "liberal" is, but at least he seems to be becoming aware of some of the distasteful elements of the conservative faction.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:31 PM
An unsophisticated reader might take "your balls bouncing off my chin" to mean that Labs like to suck my cock, and though that's not untrue, what he's really saying to the readers that matter is that my balls no longer clang off his chin. Thanks Labs, so good to hear from you again.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:47 PM
Hey now, if we're going to start fussing at people for going off half-cocked, we're gonna castrate 80% of the blogosphere.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:52 PM
Yes, once you had your testicles replaced with soft, lifelike neuticles, things have been a lot quieter.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:54 PM
Not to mention a lot less pissing in the corner.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 5:57 PM
Damn, it's just like old times around here!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 6:01 PM
Well, no Magik Johnson, and apostropher hasn't weighed in yet, but ogged and FL both appearing in the same thread? Nice.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 6:02 PM
I can't get worked up about it because I don't find anything insulting about being called gay.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 6:27 PM
Yes, once you had your testicles replaced with soft, lifelike neuticles, things have been a lot quieter.
Dramatized in the 1999 Oscar-winning film Balls Don't Clang.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 6:42 PM
Labs like to suck my cock
Bestiality, too!
Posted by mrh | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 7:41 PM
I am worked up because there is an obvious organized effort being begun to destroy the DKos node of the lefty-sphere. Kos can laugh, but Armando is gone and Armstrong has been damaged. The right has the media at their backs. This is serious. Ezra and Lindsay should prepare.
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:01 PM
I can't get worked up about it because I don't find anything insulting about being called gay.
How convenient.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:05 PM
It is an old boast, but nevertheless one that Lizard has shown is still relevant today: "Show me six lines written by any man, and I will find therein sufficient evidence with which to hang him."
Free Carlsbergs to the person who identifies the source of the original quote.
Posted by Letalis | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:15 PM
therein sufficient evidence with which
Wolfson?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:17 PM
Samuel Johnson.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:20 PM
I knew that, but I won't go Carlsbergs until at least the third date.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:22 PM
71 is wrong, I think, but I refuse to resort to google to find out for certain.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:23 PM
Huh, I guess it's not Johnson. Well, it sounds like the kind of thing he would say.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:23 PM
Google offers no assistance anyhow.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:24 PM
Nonsense, it does too. The quote seems to be inexact, but key phrases'll do ya.
Unless it's misattributed all over the place, and it is Johnson!
(For the record, I did not google until after I had guessed.)
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:26 PM
Accusations of homosexuality go back thousands of years. Cicero, no friend of Julius Caesar, didn't think that Caesar was effeminant, but rather said that any handsome man who became the subject of public attention would gather such comments.
What Glen did was state that he didn't think that it was true, and further, gave some supporting evidence. The links were provided as little pins to deflate their bubbles. Commenters probably pointed out their error, and suppose that one of the links didn't work anymore because the author was embarassed enough to take down the thread.
I am amazed at the poor reading skills shown by the products of the US government school system. I am glad that I home school my two younger children.
Posted by Don Meaker | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:27 PM
Make sure you teach them how to spell "effeminate" properly when you're teaching them to fear and loathe gay people.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:28 PM
Oh. I only tried one key phrase, and not the right one obviously.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:29 PM
state that he didn't think that it was true, and further, gave some supporting evidence
So, are you saying, that because of his providing support to truth of his proposition, that that somehow deflates any accusations about his dubious motives?
'Cause that doesn't even make sense, and is wrong.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:30 PM
The quote may have been inexact, but inasmuch as I have translated from the original French, well, give a redneck a break.
Posted by Letalis | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:31 PM
"support to truth" s/b "support for the truth"
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:31 PM
Clambone, rather silly to think that Glen proposed that the US should provide aid to terrorists.
Rather, he suggested that those who provide aid to terrorists probably already consider what would happen if the US responded in kind. Such nations have more fragile government structures than the US.
Posted by Don Meaker | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:31 PM
I home school my two younger children.
Surprisingly, home-schooled children are more likely than their peers to turn out gay.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:32 PM
84 is good news, as it means they'll then know how to spell "effiminate."
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:34 PM
No biggy. Lots of such in my family anyways. There are plenty of breeders in my family, and so we don't have to all to that job.
As my email suggests, I have 5 kids. My dad had 5 kids. My brother is just less than a year older than me, making us "Irish Twins".
Posted by Don Meaker | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:35 PM
48 -- What am I, chopped liver?
Posted by Clownęsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:37 PM
What a creep you are, Lizardbreath.
Posted by Mike | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:37 PM
87: No, you're a clown.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:38 PM
There are plenty of breeders in my family, and so we don't have to all to that job
Good man.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:39 PM
Wait! Wait!
Are you trying to say that Koz is gay???????
Posted by Petunia Renewalstine | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:39 PM
Huh, I guess it's not Johnson. Well, it sounds like the kind of thing he would say.
Darn you, B. My joke is ruined, and I am exposed as a fraud, and all because you didn't come through with the infallibility. Some Pope you are.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:39 PM
at my government school system we learned that a writer could phrase a sentence to mean something very different from what it purports to say. I guess they screwed me up good on reading comprehension.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:39 PM
Yes, but aren't I good at saying things with such self-assurance that even brilliant cynics like yourself are led to place your faith in me?
I'm no pope. I'm a messiah.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:41 PM
You've been linked by IP. Prepare for the deluge.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:42 PM
With the mention of the word "Pope," you're getting closer.
Posted by Letalis | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:42 PM
Apo, we'd figured that out a while ago. Incoming!
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:43 PM
Thanks for the spelling tip.
Not a word I use often. Unlike present company.
I bow to your superior experience.
Posted by Don Meaker | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:48 PM
we'd figured that out a while ago
I'm slow.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:50 PM
95:Funny, I forget anybody else reads this thing. Oh well, if he thinks a little about propogating smears next time, it's a profit for everybody.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:53 PM
propagating
Posted by Clownęsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:54 PM
No biggy.
Yes biggy, actually.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 8:55 PM
Hello, InstaPundit readers! Fruit baskets for everybody!
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:01 PM
Hey, guys, do we use the word "effeminate" a lot? Or is Don trying to imply we're, like, gay or something?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:01 PM
No way. We take all our anal sex like men.
Except Tim. He cries a little at first.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:05 PM
So, if it isn't my man Johnson (but I repeat myself) who was it? Candidly, who?
Posted by md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:07 PM
105: Even us ladies?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:09 PM
Especially you ladies.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:11 PM
You know it, butch. Rowr.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:11 PM
Good luck with the home schooling Don!
Please don't have any more children!
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:11 PM
106: It was Esther Rolle. I was surprised too.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:11 PM
I hope you're feeling receptive, apostropher. Letalis is about to give you Carlsbergs.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:15 PM
GODFUCKINGDAMN
One more try at that football, Lucy. Just one more.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:16 PM
Will they be Hot Carlsbergs?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:16 PM
105-112 may have effectively scared away the Institroopers. Good work, folks!
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:17 PM
Standpipe, you're wilting. It's because Ben's gone, isn't it?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:18 PM
brilliant cynics like yourself
Someone paid you to say that.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:19 PM
Why is Instapundit a "creep" because he is refuting said rumours?
And why does Lizardbreath think that "gay" is some sort of insult? Oops, looks like Lizardbreath is the bigot here with self-mangling convoluted logic and implodes spectacularly.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:19 PM
Okay everyone, let's gay it up again. The invaders must be repelled before they colonize us.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:23 PM
Ooh, ooh, I know this one! It's the use/mention distinction. Right?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:24 PM
Did you just accuse me of being Kos, M/tch?
Not that there's anything wrong with it.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:25 PM
Seriously, why do all these instannabees keeping trying to bugg us?
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:27 PM
No, but Insty called us Kos's "acolytes." Which I'm pretty sure probably means "gay boyfriends."
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:28 PM
you misunderstand, 180. LizardBreath wants Kos on our team, don't you get it, of merry gayness, to more effectively tarnish the sanctity of marriage. Insty's trying to pull him off the gaywagon with all this mention of "wives" and "miscarriages." Of course we're also bigots.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:28 PM
Standpipe, you're wilting. It's because Ben's gone, isn't it?
If you're insinuating what I think you're insinuating, then yes.
Or it could be my drinking problem.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:28 PM
No, no, B. Just left his talking points in his other set of pants along with his reading comprehension.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:29 PM
And by the way, well done on the spectacular implosion, LB! I wouldn't have thought you swung that way, what with all the tender moments we spent together discussing Kos' miscarriages. Why that should matter, I don't know.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:30 PM
No amount of flatulence from you retards changes the fact that Lizardbreath got spectacularly PWNED! Too funny. Continue your sardonic waffling, it is hilarious to watch.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:31 PM
Shit. And I was so hoping to get extra credit for that one.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:31 PM
I don't think you know what 'sardonic' means. Try your back pocket!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:32 PM
Try your back pocket!
Quit bugging him about his back pocket.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:34 PM
69:Richelieu. But I didn't check to see if anyone else got it first, which might make this an embarrssing comment.
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:34 PM
128: Comma splice!
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:34 PM
Try not mocking yourself Cala, aliterate buffoon.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:34 PM
Standpipe, now's your chance!!
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:35 PM
aliterate
*snort*
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:35 PM
Oh man he's totally hurting our collective feelings!
MOM!!!!!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:36 PM
Too easy. I was just waiting for the first retard to get his panties in a bunch over "aliterate". What, you think no such word exists? Owned.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:37 PM
aliterate
Cala can coolly crush cretins.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:37 PM
The Twelve Waffles of Dr. Sardonicus was going to be the original title, you know.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:37 PM
Yeah, there's one in just about every comment: aliterate efeminant, etc. Should we think of them as typos or something like "think-os?"
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:38 PM
Yes, Cala, you aliterate.
It's a good thing ben *isn't* here. He'd weep.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:38 PM
Hilarity. Silvana another fool who thinks aliterate was a mistake.
Go on, your by now obvious _illiteracy_ in your case, is obvious.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:38 PM
Standpipe, 132 alert. Paging Standpipe.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:39 PM
MOOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:40 PM
This is a cute troll. Can I keep him? He promised to make waffles.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:40 PM
Comical. Look up aliterate in a dictionary, morons.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:41 PM
numerical nimrods nettle nasty! Nuncle, nowhere nutty napes nor needle nymphs near!
you choda.
Posted by aliterative buffoon | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:41 PM
Are all the comma splices intentional too?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:41 PM
No matter how hard he begs, I swear I'm not going to let 180 bugg me.
Try apostropher though, he'll drop his pants for the Easter Bunny.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:41 PM
your by now obvious _illiteracy_ in your case, is obvious.
Also, your long hair is long.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:42 PM
Standpipe, 132 alert. Paging Standpipe.
Not falling for it. Richelieu, schmichelieu.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:42 PM
No, that's alliteration with two ells. Unless it's a pun?
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:42 PM
Are all the comma splices intentional too?
His by now obvious intentionality is obvious.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:43 PM
I love the chocolate eggs. What can I say?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:43 PM
apostropher, why must you pwn so frequently?
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:44 PM
Poor Charlie Brown. What a blockhead.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:44 PM
152: It was the famous bluesman, Richelieu Johnson.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:45 PM
oops did I say obvious twice. Tautological, but effective. The better to pound your glaring ignorance of the word 'aliterate' into your chitin plated skulls.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:45 PM
Okay, I admit it. 180 is me. I'm just fucking with you all. I'm not really going to make waffles for anyone, unless that's a sexual euphamism, in which case I might be down.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:45 PM
Captain, we canna take this much longer!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:45 PM
'Aliterate' just means to refuse to read. e.g., '180 was quite capable of reading Lizardbreath's post and the ensuing comment thread, however, his habitual aliteracy possessed him because he left his talking points in his other pants.'
I still don't know how to waffle sardonically. But I like pancakes better, so that's okay.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:47 PM
Impossible to be you, urple the hebetudinous turtle. Your iq not high enough.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:47 PM
154: But . . . but . . . the intentional fallacy!
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:47 PM
Urple, that was totally sweet. Never do it again.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:47 PM
why must you pwn so frequently?
I have a note from my doctor.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:47 PM
Tautological, but effective.
You mean redundant.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:48 PM
I second 165.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:48 PM
(PS: 180 isn't really me ... that was a joke, hopefully obvious. Although if 180 turns out to be posting from my IP address the shit. will. hit. the. fan.)
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:48 PM
Cala just looked the word up and realised what an idiot she was. Now trying to redeem herself by cleverly constructing a sentence with her newly expanded vocabulary.
Try expanding your nostrils oxygen deprived imbecile, maybe you won't sound like a retard next time.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:50 PM
I'm not embarrassed to say I have no idea what "hebetudinous" means.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:50 PM
You people are not good at reading.
Posted by Stankleberry | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:50 PM
Urple, you'll never be an effective troll without a bag full of half-understood twenty dollar words under your bridge.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:51 PM
PS: 180 isn't really me
They said the lobotomy wouldn't have any side-effects. And I trusted them!
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:51 PM
Seriously, why do all these instannabees keep trying to rooper us?
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:53 PM
Shut it, bitch. Go read some Quine or something while calming your conniptions.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:54 PM
Somewhere in a file my dad I think my dad still has the best cover letter ever written by a job applicant. The guy had obviously done a draft and then gone over it with a thesaurus, leading to marvellous bits like "I am blatantly qualified for this position" and many many more.
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:55 PM
'Aliterate' isn't a 20 dollar word (though, given the context, I think he meant 'illiterate.') 'Tautological' is worth about $12.75, but our troll misused it.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:55 PM
Stanckleberry my good man! Come give us a kiss! We've got this great fellow, 180, who's just showed up. I'm sure you two have lots to talk about over there in the corner.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:55 PM
Quine
It all makes sense now.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:55 PM
Oh my God.
Urple, the calls are coming from inside you house!
{various special effects ensue}
Posted by md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:55 PM
152:
It is So Armand Jean du Plessis
"Qu'on me donne six lignes ecrites de la main du plus honnete homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.]
- attributed to,
by Fournier "L'Esprit dans l'Historie", ch. XLI, p. 255 (1883) "
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:57 PM
Okay, seriously, all this waffle talk is making me really want to hit the IHOP.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:57 PM
180 gets it exactly right.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:58 PM
179: And these are Mohammed, Jugdish, Sidney and Clayton.
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 9:59 PM
I meant aliterate, you idiot. You still don't get it, do you? Your brain must be malfunctioning as you can't seem to read with any degree of comprehension. Indeed, you don't appear to be reading at all. Hence aliterate. Owned, retard.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:00 PM
Now that we've established 180's bona fides, will someone please delete this crap?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:00 PM
Oh, I missed 69. Yes, that's Richelieu.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:01 PM
Cala digging a bigger hole for herself as I continue to shovel dirt on her head. Hahahah!
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:01 PM
Damnit. 184 would have been the perfect ending to this thread.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:01 PM
what's that, 180? No, I don't know where Stankleberry went. I think he's off in the corner, far away, but I'm pretty sure he has something important to say to you.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:02 PM
Oh, I missed 69
Glad I could reacquaint you with it. It was fun for me too.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:02 PM
186: I just knew somebody had already gotten Richelieu, but I missed it in the jungle of wit. Probably should have followed the fruit basket link.
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:02 PM
Thanks, silvana.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:02 PM
Try ending your life. That would be a perfect ending indeed.
Posted by 180 | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:02 PM
It's like the troll of sorrow. Complete with the Quinean upgrade.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:03 PM
195 was just plain mean.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:04 PM
Oh, I don't think I remembered to get it. I'm not certain of the translation -- is faire pendre really 'to hang'?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:04 PM
try bending your wife? that's the type of comment that gets a fellow banned around here, 180.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:05 PM
And done.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:06 PM
but what I mean to say is, there's this great fellow: Stankleberry. We all get along with him so well. He wanted to make your acquaintance, 180, but I'm not sure where he went. Oh yes, he's over there, in the other room, far away from everyone else.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:07 PM
This little episode is further exposing some "progressives" for what they are....insane. We already know that blogs offer the individual a choice in reinforcing ones own opinions with ready-made echo-chambers. It is apparent that some use blogs to retreat from the responsibility of thought...particularly rational and critical. How one can come up with what Reynolds being anything other than what he actually wrote is partisan.....the lemmings dropping their minds at the door and willfully allowing their rationale thought processes to be co-opted is nothing but a measure of insanity, imo.
This phenomena occurs on the conservative or right side as well but this has reached new heights(or lows if you prefer) of mental deficiency. Black is white..up is down...I've always had my opinion of what political spectrum Orwell was railing against and am thinking it is starting to fit like a glove.
Posted by zenpig | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:07 PM
Let's get the childfree bloggers in here and see who wins.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:08 PM
I just love it when people use 'tautological' to mean 'extra true with more truthiness in every scoop.'
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:08 PM
Echo chambers! Man, I think there's something in the water.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:08 PM
what political spectrum Orwell was railing against and am thinking it is starting to fit like a glove.
You misspelled "speculum".
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:09 PM
I wonder if any of the little Insty boot-lickers noticed that nearly everyone disagreed with LB's post?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:10 PM
the lemmings dropping their minds at the door
Can't we get some better trolls around here? This one doesn't even know how to spell "trousers."
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:10 PM
zenpig my good man! so good to see you! 180 and Stankleberry are over there in the corner, far away from everyone else. I think they had something they wanted to tell you.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:10 PM
Is this really what the Instapundit crowd is like? Good lord. I have to take back all my derisive remarks about the commenters at CT.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:11 PM
Damn, I am slow.
Off to the corner (or maybe the capital-C Corner) with 180 and Stankleberry and zenpig and Mohammed, Jugdish, Sidney and Clayton.
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:12 PM
Man, talk about agendas! Pretty clear that Glenn was saying
1) I DON'T think he is gay..., he is in a heterosexual marriage and has kids is at least some small indication that he isn't
2) But so what if he is, and
3) Vicious personal attacks are not called for.
But I 'll be damned if the normal tin hat crowd hasn't turned it into a slur and innuendo.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:12 PM
let's try to keep one around. baa never shows up any more.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:13 PM
203: Standpipe, all you need to do is link to 'em.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:14 PM
202, the abridged version: "...." [...] "..." [...] "....." [...] ".." [...] "...".
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:14 PM
Not that I'm recommmending that.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:14 PM
baa never shows up any more.
He's in the Kipling thread, talking to himself.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:14 PM
I tried to herd Baa on over here, but he was being baalky.
(I'm so, so sorry. Please forgive me.)
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:15 PM
210- surely this is the bottom of the barrel, no?
That's how warfare works, you send out the grunts first as cannon-fodder to wear down the enemy lines, and then follow-up with your skilled soldiers. Probably ideological warfare is no different. 180 and zenpig are just here to wear us down, and once we tire under their assault, the heavyweights will come and really start swinging. If we're not careful, we'll all be Republicans by morning.
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:15 PM
This little episode is further exposing some "progressives" for what they are....insane.
Further? What was the earlier evidence?
We already know that blogs offer the individual a choice in reinforcing ones own opinions with ready-made echo-chambers.
I reinforced my house with a ready-made echo chamber last year. Unfortunately it is a vacuum so no sound travels in it.
It is apparent that some use blogs to retreat from the responsibility of thought...particularly rational and critical.
I agree that it is rational to retreat from the responsibility of thought, but how is it critical?
How one can come up with what Reynolds being anything other than what he actually wrote is partisan.....the lemmings dropping their minds at the door and willfully allowing their rationale thought processes to be co-opted is nothing but a measure of insanity, imo.
Note that it says "imo" and not "imho".
Also, why would a lemming drop its mind at a door?
Also, you spelled "rationale" wrong.
This phenomena occurs on the conservative or right side as well but this has reached new heights(or lows if you prefer) of mental deficiency.
"Phenomena" is plural, you mean "phenomenon".
Black is white..up is down...
I disagree.
I've always had my opinion of what political spectrum Orwell was railing against and am thinking it is starting to fit like a glove.
A spectrum wouldn't fit me like a glove.
I agree with your basic point, though.
The post seems to be a genuine attempt to convey the message that Instapundit disapproves of nonsensical accusations of homosexuality. If it was just an attempt to "get it out there", he wouldn't have included all the stuff that clearly indicated that Markos is married and desires children.
Posted by Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:16 PM
Man, talk about agendas!
Vagendas, mostly.
Instapundit people, please read the whole blog before you comment.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:16 PM
hey, how 'bout you? Mr. No Handle. If you can come up with a better handle than Stankleberry, you can be our new troll. Whaddya say?
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:16 PM
baa is on the Kipling thread.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:17 PM
Also, you spelled "rationale" wrong.
Dammit, I spelled "rational" wrong.
This abstract fisking method is fun, try it.
Posted by Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:17 PM
(I'm so, so sorry. Please forgive me.)
bitchphd is banned!
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:19 PM
220: Actually Markos already has a kid.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:19 PM
bitchphd is bugged!
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:19 PM
220: Actually Markos already has a kid.
But he doesn't have children.
Not to imply that he's gay or anything, although his name does have a pretentious spelling.
Posted by Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:20 PM
Cryptic Ned is implying that Kos is a pedophile, B. Try to keep up.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:21 PM
227: But by whom? And how?
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:21 PM
Standpipe, no double jeopardy.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:21 PM
All gay men are pedophiles, Apo. Surely you knew that.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:22 PM
I would like to submit the following passage, an excerpt from comment 220, as the very essence of "fisking", that word meaning taking something your opponent says out of context and using it as a strawman:
Black is white..up is down...
I disagree.
Posted by Citpyrc Den | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:22 PM
230: I don't think you're quite ready for the "birds and bees" talk yet, teofilo. Maybe next year.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:22 PM
Black is white..up is down...
Can we at least agree that ignorance is strength?
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:23 PM
Also, all gay men are promiscuous and irresponsible, especially the ones who want to get married and adopt orphaned children.
Posted by Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:24 PM
ignorance is strength
Where does the loony left get these ideas?
Posted by Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:25 PM
235: I thought ignorance was bliss.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:25 PM
Where does the loony left get these ideas?
Richelieu, I think. Or maybe Johnson.
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:27 PM
Have I really gotten this far down into the thread with no one yet noting that this is the precise M.O. Glenn Reynolds has demonstrated for most of his online career? His entire writing style consists of presenting specious arguments, scurrilous accusations, tawdry insinuations, and paranoid right-wing rage in a thin veneer of moderation while simultaneously distancing them from his own "more-in-sadness-than-in-anger" persona through the use of framing links. He's the very model of disingenuous discourse.
And did we really need this to tell us that the man is a "nasty little pig" after his various comments on fat Katrina victims, the need to "make the Palestinians suffer," and the benefits of funding terror in Europe?
Posted by strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:30 PM
Ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is strength.
Bliss is strength.
Therefore, shiny happy people will subdue the earth.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:30 PM
And did we really need this to tell us that the man is a "nasty little pig" after his various comments on fat Katrina victims, the need to "make the Palestinians suffer," and the benefits of funding terror in Europe?
Nope.
Posted by M/tch M/lls, pedophile | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:34 PM
Well, Cala, you saw that Folger's ad.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:34 PM
HAPPY MORNING!!!!!!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:48 PM
Can you find a smaller tea cup to have your tempest in? My word.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:57 PM
I see you've gone over to the other side. Bad, evil woman.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 10:58 PM
245: Hey! Just because I enjoy the odd tea party does NOT mean I'm, you know, that way! Bigot!!!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 11:00 PM
No, no. It's a rallying cry, kind of like a karate yell to focus the qi.
HAPPY MORNING!!! (calabat)
HAPPY MORNING!!!! (thwack)
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 11:01 PM
Jokes are funnier when you don't decorate them with typographic wink-winks.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 11:02 PM
241: Or, in the formulation that was painted on a bridge I used to cross on my way to school:
God is love.
Love is blind.
Ray Charles is blind.
Therefore, Ray Charles is God.
What could be shinier and happier than that?
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 11:02 PM
Jokes are funnier when you don't decorate them with typographic wink-winks.
You think so, do you?
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 11:03 PM
What could be shinier and happier than that
Stevie Wonder. Duh.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06-22-06 11:04 PM
248: Oh. Well, carry on then.
Posted by