I'm working on a paper now! Honest, I just wrote a paragraph. I'd be in a lot better shape if I hadn't decided to get up at 8am so I could make it to watch the soccer game, even though I don't particularly care about soccer.
7: I had some fun doing that with one U.S. game that was on live at something like 5:30 AM last world cup. Turning it into special occassion makes the game more enjoyable, don't you think?
I'm irrationally upset that I missed the game. I LOVE the world cup. I'm actually going to have to figure out what my local television schedule is, and/or where I can watch the games online, and/or which local bars are airing them. . . .
I saw Final Fantasy in concert once. I don't know if he does this on the recordings, but live he plays in sort of in rondo: he plays one line, records it using a foot pedal-enabled sampler, plays another line against a loop of the previous line, etc., and builds the song. It's neat. Then, just when my friend said something like "isn't he worried about being a one-trick pony?" FF said, "I have only three more songs before everyone here is sick of my schtick, so I'll play two more." And he wore a nice tie.
22: Jon Brion plays live like that. For exampe, he plays the guitar part of a song and records (or multiple shorter parts that he can alternate through on playback), then the drum part, then the piano part, then the some else part if required, plays them back and sings over them.
Actually, I've probably mis-described this being unbearably musically ignorant.
The recording might have been done by overdubbing, but not in such a way that one could mistake it for the work of a delay pedal. So I was on the solidest of solid grounds.
The proper interpretation of 29 is deeply relevant to the paper I'm working on. So tell me: Was the recording in fact made by overdubbing, but not in such a way that one could mistake it for the work of a delay pedal?
So tell me: Was the recording in fact made by overdubbing, but not in such a way that one could mistake it for the work of a delay pedal?
I suspect not. It's not really "looped" at all. However, overdubbing being such a common studio technique, it would be basically impossible for me to say whether or not it was overdubbed. (There are no positive indicators of overdubbing, like say the singer harmonizing with himself, but I have no way of knowing whether or not overdubbing was used.)
Since, however, there is no delay pedal action, no looping, etc, no overdubbing was done in such a way that one might take it for the work of a delay pedal. (For that matter, maybe a delay pedal was used in some highly uncharacteristic way. Nevertheless there's nothing in the song that would justify anyone hearing it in thinking that a delay pedal was used.)
Since you are discussing looping versus overdubbing I'm going to shameless pimp something I did that uses overdubbing but not looping but sounds like looping as the overdubbed parts are repeating fragments that build in complexity... Steve Reich-style. Done for a Halloween themed thing a year or so back for a guitar recording forum.
Thanks! These things are done at short notice to monthly tasks set by members of the recording forum -- often with bizarre technical or musical demands being set -- so they are a bit rough and ready but they are fun to do.
My reading of 29 was obtuse. I thought Ben had said "It might have (been made by overdubbing but not in such a way that could have been mistaken for a delay pedal)"; that is, it might be the case that it was [clearly] made by overdubbing but the overdubbing did not sound anything like a delay pedal. Which was certainly true from Smasher's and my point of view, since we didn't hear the piece. But, Ben having heard the piece, from his point of view this (with the bracketed 'clearly') is either false (if it did sound like it could have had a delay pedal) or more tentative than necessary (if it did sound overdubbed-but-not-delay-pedaled, Ben knew this for sure, and needn't have said 'might have been').
Whereas in fact Ben said "It (might have been made by overdubbing) but not in such a way that could have been mistaken for a delay pedal; that is, it may or may not have been made by overdubbing (one can't tell by listening) but it definitely couldn't be mistaken for a delay pedal. Which as 34 makes clear is true and adequately informative; Ben is definitively asserting the second part and doesn't know whether it was made by overdubbing. So there is no question of its being false from his standpoint.
The paper I am working on deals with the question of whether it makes sense to say that a 'might' statement can be true from one standpoint but not from another. For more reading on the issue, go here and then do some other stuff.
So 33, I wasn't lying though I was mistaken. Call me a liar and you unleash PEDANTZILLA.
Final Fantasy's live performance is certainly not done with a delay pedal. It's accomplished by a looping pedal, which is totally different. Looping pedals are digital phrase-sampling thingees that record and repeat discrete sound samples. Delay pedals allow the player to layer and repeat the phrase being played over or against the previous phrase played, with the effect being that older parts fade but persist over time. Whether it is Final Fantasy himself accomplishing it (via loop pedal) or a studio engineer doing it (via overdubbing) the recording is accomplished by one form of looping or another. That being my limit break, I deal 2,189 HP damage to Ben Wolfson.
38, 39: Indeed, as I was intending to imply that I doubted that knowing whether the track had been looped or delayed was itself of critical importance to your paper.
Ah, philosophy. "No, honey, I'm not procrastinating, as Google is a valuable intuition checker. It just *looks* like I'm talking about music."
Meaning no more shows until the fall?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:37 PM
Are you on now? My computer at work is speaker-less, alas.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:39 PM
ISE! Sans Kitty!
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:40 PM
Oh whoops. No, on from 1-3 pm PST, listen here. I would have put these details in the post but I'm still kind of out of it.
And, yes, no more shows until the fall.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:41 PM
Some kind of bender, Ben. Hope you're done with classes.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:45 PM
5 s/b "I should hope you're done with classes for the term."
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:46 PM
I'm working on a paper now! Honest, I just wrote a paragraph. I'd be in a lot better shape if I hadn't decided to get up at 8am so I could make it to watch the soccer game, even though I don't particularly care about soccer.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:48 PM
Ok, has anyone ever got the ISE with kitten? Other than clicking on Becks's link to see it, I mean.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:48 PM
JM: No one has, and no one ever will, unless pair stops being a little bitch.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:50 PM
It's just as well; I thought "happy furry unfogged happy page" was a bit much.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:51 PM
7: I had some fun doing that with one U.S. game that was on live at something like 5:30 AM last world cup. Turning it into special occassion makes the game more enjoyable, don't you think?
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:04 PM
I'm irrationally upset that I missed the game. I LOVE the world cup. I'm actually going to have to figure out what my local television schedule is, and/or where I can watch the games online, and/or which local bars are airing them. . . .
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:24 PM
Or you could scroll down the page a little bit...
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:29 PM
Yup, figured that out.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:30 PM
I didn't notice the Anne McCaffrey mention in this song until just now. OTOH it's not as if it weren't obvious that it's a nerdfest.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:33 PM
There's a shout-out to Anne McCaffrey? Jesus wept.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:39 PM
I take it you weren't listening, JM?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:41 PM
Ooo new Zombi. Don't have this yet.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:44 PM
Would you be sad if I were to tell you I was listening to NPR instead?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:46 PM
That would make me even more sad than if you told me you were listening to Rush.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:51 PM
Limbaugh or the band.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:52 PM
I saw Final Fantasy in concert once. I don't know if he does this on the recordings, but live he plays in sort of in rondo: he plays one line, records it using a foot pedal-enabled sampler, plays another line against a loop of the previous line, etc., and builds the song. It's neat. Then, just when my friend said something like "isn't he worried about being a one-trick pony?" FF said, "I have only three more songs before everyone here is sick of my schtick, so I'll play two more." And he wore a nice tie.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:56 PM
I'll refrain from saying any such thing, then. I would not have you sad.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:57 PM
I don't know if he does this on the recordings,
Subtle, Smasher. Thanks for letting me down easy.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:58 PM
While you were playing that song I was, in fact, watching the World Cup game on television. I just don't know how to please you, Ben.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:01 PM
22: Andrew Bird does something like that in his concerts, too. Also, he whistles. During the songs. He's surprisingly good at it.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:07 PM
22: Jon Brion plays live like that. For exampe, he plays the guitar part of a song and records (or multiple shorter parts that he can alternate through on playback), then the drum part, then the piano part, then the some else part if required, plays them back and sings over them.
Actually, I've probably mis-described this being unbearably musically ignorant.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:10 PM
24: He could have been expressing ignorance about whether the recordings were made by using the delay pedal or by overdubbing.
(I was listening to Booker Little and Friend. It seemed more conclusive to the work that I need to get done. I do feel ashamed of this.)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:16 PM
The recording might have been done by overdubbing, but not in such a way that one could mistake it for the work of a delay pedal. So I was on the solidest of solid grounds.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:18 PM
I just don't know how to please you, Ben.
Dive straight for the prostate, Smasher.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:20 PM
You should have a cousin named Prostatesmasher.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:21 PM
The proper interpretation of 29 is deeply relevant to the paper I'm working on. So tell me: Was the recording in fact made by overdubbing, but not in such a way that one could mistake it for the work of a delay pedal?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:23 PM
The proper interpretation of 29 is deeply relevant to the paper I'm working on.
Liar!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:28 PM
So tell me: Was the recording in fact made by overdubbing, but not in such a way that one could mistake it for the work of a delay pedal?
I suspect not. It's not really "looped" at all. However, overdubbing being such a common studio technique, it would be basically impossible for me to say whether or not it was overdubbed. (There are no positive indicators of overdubbing, like say the singer harmonizing with himself, but I have no way of knowing whether or not overdubbing was used.)
Since, however, there is no delay pedal action, no looping, etc, no overdubbing was done in such a way that one might take it for the work of a delay pedal. (For that matter, maybe a delay pedal was used in some highly uncharacteristic way. Nevertheless there's nothing in the song that would justify anyone hearing it in thinking that a delay pedal was used.)
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:37 PM
Since you are discussing looping versus overdubbing I'm going to shameless pimp something I did that uses overdubbing but not looping but sounds like looping as the overdubbed parts are repeating fragments that build in complexity... Steve Reich-style. Done for a Halloween themed thing a year or so back for a guitar recording forum.
http://www.mcgrattan.f2s.com/flail_chest.mp3
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:00 PM
That's pretty. I have a completely tin ear and little interest in music, so it's not a terribly meaningful compliment, but definitely pretty.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:33 PM
Thanks! These things are done at short notice to monthly tasks set by members of the recording forum -- often with bizarre technical or musical demands being set -- so they are a bit rough and ready but they are fun to do.
Posted by Mat McGrattan | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:50 PM
My reading of 29 was obtuse. I thought Ben had said "It might have (been made by overdubbing but not in such a way that could have been mistaken for a delay pedal)"; that is, it might be the case that it was [clearly] made by overdubbing but the overdubbing did not sound anything like a delay pedal. Which was certainly true from Smasher's and my point of view, since we didn't hear the piece. But, Ben having heard the piece, from his point of view this (with the bracketed 'clearly') is either false (if it did sound like it could have had a delay pedal) or more tentative than necessary (if it did sound overdubbed-but-not-delay-pedaled, Ben knew this for sure, and needn't have said 'might have been').
Whereas in fact Ben said "It (might have been made by overdubbing) but not in such a way that could have been mistaken for a delay pedal; that is, it may or may not have been made by overdubbing (one can't tell by listening) but it definitely couldn't be mistaken for a delay pedal. Which as 34 makes clear is true and adequately informative; Ben is definitively asserting the second part and doesn't know whether it was made by overdubbing. So there is no question of its being false from his standpoint.
The paper I am working on deals with the question of whether it makes sense to say that a 'might' statement can be true from one standpoint but not from another. For more reading on the issue, go here and then do some other stuff.
So 33, I wasn't lying though I was mistaken. Call me a liar and you unleash PEDANTZILLA.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:18 PM
The sentence of yours quoted in 33 is ambiguous, anyway, so maybe there's a way you can both be right.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:41 PM
Final Fantasy's live performance is certainly not done with a delay pedal. It's accomplished by a looping pedal, which is totally different. Looping pedals are digital phrase-sampling thingees that record and repeat discrete sound samples. Delay pedals allow the player to layer and repeat the phrase being played over or against the previous phrase played, with the effect being that older parts fade but persist over time. Whether it is Final Fantasy himself accomplishing it (via loop pedal) or a studio engineer doing it (via overdubbing) the recording is accomplished by one form of looping or another. That being my limit break, I deal 2,189 HP damage to Ben Wolfson.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06-10-06 2:03 AM
I don't think you'd think that if you had heard the track.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-10-06 10:46 AM
38, 39: Indeed, as I was intending to imply that I doubted that knowing whether the track had been looped or delayed was itself of critical importance to your paper.
Ah, philosophy. "No, honey, I'm not procrastinating, as Google is a valuable intuition checker. It just *looks* like I'm talking about music."
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06-10-06 11:21 AM