Yeah, I feel a bit like the show has lost steam. And can we get rid of Tony's psychiatry sessions already? Bo-ring.
I still like the show, but I hated the episode where Christopher flew out to LA to try to get his script picked up. I really hate the in-joke winking and celebrities-playing-themselves. That kind of crap belongs in lesser shows.
I have never watched this show. Would it be worth picking up season 1 on DVD (worth relative to other TV shows, of course, not worth in global-hunger-ending sense) ?
The Wire is hands-down the best program on television, and I truly think it's racism that has prevented that show from picking up every applicable award for its first three seasons.
I watched the first two seasons, and then stopped. Not enough good guys, neither tragedy or melodrama. Macbeth or Michael Corleone were good guys, or close enough, gone bad; mostly the Sopranos felt like watching Eichmann's home movies.
"it shows how the stressors these scumbags face are pretty much the same as all of ours; they're just picking the most pathological response."
And why is this interesting or entertaining? I had about 15 years personal experience with pathological subcultures, and I didn't learn much that was useful; I don't a rerun. I find the guy who creates a 50 ft ball of gum wrappers more enlightening
Despite Wanchope, this is really going to be a blowout. Costa rica can't keep giving the germans this much room so near the goal and maintain even a tie. Final score... 5-1? 5-2?
Here's the thing... I mean, I'm not normally very patriotic when it comes to sports. National Baseball team? Whatever. Olympics? meh.
But *soccer*... I don't know what it is. I love the team. I love thinking about new players. I love watching 'em. Maybe it's that most of our good players play overseas, and seeing them play on the national team is the only time I'll get to watch them. But whatever the reason...
14: gswift, it was between wireless internet and ubercable. Plus, most network shows I've mostly watched on DVD. TV is much better in huge doses every sixth months.
29: I'd rather not go into details publicly, as that wouldn't be nice, and I'm not eager to have contact with her again (in the event that she might see something here and figure out who wrote it.) In part it's the inevitable distance between one's memory of a person and how they appear to one today. Plus a lot of other things.
It's fun. Pick a team in each group to root for. And it's easy to follow, the rules being basically a) kick the ball b) don't kick it offsides and c) don't kick it out of bounds.
These are the groups. The "1st round" involves every team playing every other team in their group once (so, 32 teams, 8 groups, so every team plays 3 games). You get 3pts for a win, 1pt for a tie. At the end of the 1st round, the top two teams from each group pass through to the 2nd round.
The 2nd round, with 16 teams, is then a 4-round single-elimination tournament.
As I recall, the rule is termed in words like "closer" and "level." I doubt anyone would call offsides for a foot, it's usually judged in terms of "where your body is," relative to where the defender's body is.
At least, that's the way I was taught when I first learned (taught as a ref, I should say, back in the day.)
But I don't think it matters for the 2nd wanchope goal, 'cause I think the replay shows he's pretty much clearly offsides. But those things are very quick, very hard to call, and a good linesman will probably use the sound of the ball being kicked to help him judge, and even that's pretty deceptive for really close plays...
Offsides can be tricky, but as someone who learned the rules of soccer pretty much during the last World Cup, it's many times simpler than, say, trying to explain 'offensive pass interference' to a British friend.
Rooting for the U.S. is good. Picking a former colony to root for is good, too. And rooting for one of the favorites is also advisable, so you have someone to watch in the DE rounds.
The first is just identifying that you're in an offsides position. You're in such a position if there is exactly one defender between you and the end line (not zero, and not two or more ... the one defender is usually the goalie, although not always).
That's being in the offsides position, but it's not a penalty if you are.
What *is* a penalty is if, while in such a position, some plays the ball to you. (Or if you interfere with a play that starts while you're in the offsides position.)
And then, the other team gets a free kick from (roughly) where you were.
So you can think of the 2nd-to-last defender as kind of a moving blue line, as in hockey.
And it's built so that you get beautiful goals, through-balls are played through and then you get a footrace...
In the last WC, England's backline basically crept up very very carefully the whole game to keep Argentina's players accidentally offsides. Everyone does it, but England did it really well.
The cool thing about offsides, is, if I remember this correctly, if you're just barely not offsides when the ball is kicked, you can dart 'offsides'. So you get this cool dynamic of the far-out people trying to stay just onsides, and the opposing defense trying to keep them just offsides.
It's to keep teams from planting one dude near the goalie and just booting it to him so he can plink it in.
Yeah, organized back-lines can use it to good effect. For instance, after a free kick, if every one of them sprints forward together, you can basically "clear" the area around your goal quickly and effectively.
But playing the offsides trap as a consistent tactic... that's what Germany did in this game, and they got burned twice. Not every team does it -- it's basically an equalizing tactic. Like, if your defense isn't quite as talented (speed, touch on the ball, height) as the opposing team, you can make up for it by being more organized, by moving together as a unit and anticipating the passes from the other team... and then right as the other team's about to pass it through, you step up together, and quickly kill any kind of offense.
But if you make a mistake, you're essentially giving the other team free shots at your goal. It's like playing with fire.
And yeah, the effect of the total rule is to create these kind of foot-race situations, and to reward practice and timing and coordination between midfielders and their forwards.
It's no mistake to say that the offsides rule is what gives soccer a lot of its beauty.
Ah! No, not "seriously." Um, I always played on youth teams growing up, until I went to college. Because I wasn't good enough to play in college, I also was a referee through high school and college.
So... yeah. I mean, soccer isn't what I "do." But I am definitely obsessed, as I'm sure is clear here.
As the soccer season continues to play out, expect to see more anticommunist teams rise to the surface and watch for the diminishing importance of entrenched endorsements.
Group D is one of the weakest, I think, but the smart money is on Portugal and Mexico, probably in that order.
I don't know ... Mexico got a seed in this WC draw, which was controversial in some quarters. But they're a good team, for sure. Portugal is a bit of an unknown... they're always good, of course, and they've got Christiano Ronaldo, who is suh-weeet... and Angola is supposedly pretty weak (I haven't seen them play). And who knows with Iran?
I'm actually pretty surprised with this ESPN coverage, the between-game banter actually seems pretty good. Wynalda and Foudy, much better (comparatively) than I last remember them to be...
goWhat *is* a penalty is if, while in such a position, some plays the ball to you. (Or if you interfere with a play that starts while you're in the offsides position.)
I thought that if you were in offsides position, and the ball is passed to you, but you don't touch it until the ball is between you and the goal line, you were in the clear. No?
Ah, I see I'm right, because offsides position means "he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent." So if the ball is on the other side of you, you aren't in offsides position.
The problem with selecting winners is that... you know, everyone selects the teams they've seen play. In 2002, everyone in "the know" had seen Portugal, with Figo, and thought: "there's a team that'll go all the way, maybe win it all." They were a fashionable choice as a dark-horse winner.
And no one saw the US coming, and Portugal didn't even make it to the 2nd round.
Soccer's totally a team game, and the lesser teams have figured out how to pack the midfield .... you can play one guy up front, 5 in the midfield, and if you play a stiff defense and a counter-attacking game, you can occasionally knock off the big guys.
And so ... you know, who knows? I haven't seen Iran play, but if they play organized, and they don't have many injuries, they could totally knock off someone like either Portugal or Mexico...
70: It's a German soccer chant (or so I've been told) that probably isn't even in fashion these days, that I learned in German classes when I was eleven. (One person does the zikkas, everyone else shouts 'hoi hoi hoi')
Oh, oh... Yeah, I forgot. To be in an offsides position, three things need to be true:
(a) you need to be in the opponent's half of the field (that's usually trivial)
(b) you need to be ahead of the ball (you can't be offside s if the ball is past you, on the field)
and (c), the thing about one defender between you and the endline.
The "typical" offsides is if you're in an offsides position, and then someone plays the ball to you (even if you "come back" for the ball -- what matters is where you are when the ball is initially struck. That's why you can stay onsides until the ball is played, then outrace the defender to reach the ball, producing "beautiful play.")
But the situation you describe, where the ball doesn't touch you... that's the "interference" aside I made.
Like, if someone scores, and when they score you're in an offsides position but on the other side of the field, having nothing to do with the play... that's okay, not offsides.
But if you (for instance) are right there *in* the play, but you let the ball roll by you, without touching it, you can still be offsides. The reasoning is that you're still "interfering" with the play... the goalie and defenders are still reacting to you as if you could touch it, so you're "in the play" even if you don't touch the ball.
You can also interfere by (say) grabbing the defenders, or otherwise distracting people.
So touching the ball is the usual way in which someone is offsides, but the "interference" clause is added to prevent stupid loophole situations.
Iran qualified (and beat us, in group play) in '98. I don't remember in 2002? They are, I think, historically, a strong Asian team. But (and this is just me) they're likely not as good as Mexico (and certainly not as good as Portugal).
"Strong in Asia" is still (usually) weak in a worldwide sense. South Korea in 2002 was totally a surprise to a lot of people.
15: Are we talking about the same Aaron Boone who has only shown any talent for like one of one seasonw while playing in a bandbox, was an idiotic signing by the Yankees, and then happened to get lucky and have the hit that won a tied game in extra-innings? Because, assuming you're a Boston fan, you should really hope that the Yankees just fill up with Aaron Boone clones.
Yeah, *that* Aaron Boone. I'm just saying, Aaron Boone, and Torsten Frickin' Frings, are in the same breath for me. Frings handballed a would-have-been-a-goal off the line in 2002, and we lost that game. I hate 'im.
Iran qualified (and beat us, in group play) in '98. I don't remember in 2002? They are, I think, historically, a strong Asian team. But (and this is just me) they're likely not as good as Mexico (and certainly not as good as Portugal).
This is confusing. IIRC, "Iranian" is a subset of "Mexican."
2nd in F has been a mystery for a lot of people. Australia has qualified for the first time in a long time (or ever? I can't remember). The "Socceroos," gotta love the team name. And they've got a couple of excellent players, Viduka and Kewell. So some people like them.
Japan, also has some strong players, and is coached by Zico, the Brazilian legend. But the latest news I'd heard from them was that Nakata (star striker) saying the team was in shambles?
Personally, I call Croatia. European team, playing in Europe. Babic in midfield, Prso's not bad up front, right? I don't know much about them, but I guess Croatia, it's probably the safest bet.
Fuck to oboe. My comment should have said "one half of one season", not "one of one seasonw".
108: But, given his feelings on soccer, there is no answer to "For whom would ogged root?" He would probably root for earthquakes or something dangerous that still led to less soccer being played.
For Christ's sakes, did no one besides arthegall and I play soccer growing up? What kind of liberals are you people anyways? At least do the right thing and get your kids to play.
I played soccer growing up. I sucked so bad that my father (an excellent hockey player) had to stop coming to my games. I kept playing for years, though.
A nice strike for Castillo... one of the things people have suggested, in this World Cup, is that the new Adidas ball (which they claim is "rounder" than previous balls) will lead to different movement and more goals. Balboa was claiming, in the first game, that Frings's long shot was "knuckling" (it looked like just a nasty strike, to me)...
So it'll be interesting to see if there are any weird moving long shots in a game like this...
I've never played soccer. I watched some of the 94 World Cup but what really made me a soccer fan was just happening to catch the 96 Champions League final between AC Milan and Ajax Amsterdam, which is an odd thing to say, I guess, but it was a damn good game.
This comment should in no way be taken as a renunciation of my US citizenship.
"Basketball" is beside the point. We're conditioning on the fact that Ogged would choose a soccer team to root for.. P(Team | OggedSport=Soccer). What is the "conditional" probability, so to speak?
ARRRGH! While I was devoting my attention to efiling the two briefs I didn't write, my secretary fucked up the margins in the brief I did write and changed all the page numbers in the Table of Contents and Authorities to match. ARRRRRGH!!!!
Well, I was making daisy-chains and turning cartwheels when as fullback I was supposed to be keenly watching the action over at the other end of the field. I got marginally better as I got older, but I'd already broken my father's spirit.
Fring's shot twisted and curved in, but balls can do that.
The commentators: "The players have gotten stronger and faster, and now they've changed the ball and they're complaining that it's rounder, and balls were round before, so maybe it's roundier." I detect a note of sarcasm.
I didn't play soccer growing up, but in college I started playing 5 on 5 (or whatever) pickup games with some out-of-condition engineering buddies.
Also, 143: I was thinking the same thing. Frings' shot twisted to the side, and if something was knuckling I would sorta expect to move in a more vertical, less-predictable way. Before the WC, several keepers were saying, "it moves differently," but if I was a goalie, I'd say the same thing... a good excuse later on, if I let a bad one in. And if I make a lot of good saves, then I've succeeded under "knuckling" circumstances.
We're conditioning on the fact that Ogged would choose a soccer team to root for.. P(Team | OggedSport=Soccer). What is the "conditional" probability, so to speak?
Ugly, ugly construction. Please never use "conditioning" in that sense again. Instead, you might want to try something like "we're stipulating that -gg-d would" and et cetera.
I'm more comfortable with "conditioning on events," rather than "stipulating" that something is the case. I come from a different community, I guess...
The announcers keep saying that Ecuador is a high-altitude team, but to me, this makes little sense as endurance athletes often train at high altitudes in order to gain an advantage at lower altitudes.
Is this a joke due to Ecuador's record, or is there something about soccer than gives teams advantages? (Thin air = no knuckling?)
Well, I think the point is that their record is inflated (or so the claim goes) by playing at high-altitude in Quito. It's like this with the Azteca in Mexico City too -- there's a *huge* home-team advantage, because visitors are rarely able to play at full-strength there for 90 minutes. So the question is, "they're good in Quito, but are they *as* good when they don't have the high-altitude as a 12th player for the team?"
I think the 1st half is proving that, yeah, they're a pretty decent team.
Oh, duh. It's the other team's inexperience with high altitude that might give Ecuador the advantage, not something weird about their high altitude training not converting to a lower altitude.
I wonder who ogged is going to root for in the Mexico-Iran game. On the one hand, he's Mexican, but on the other, so many Iranian doctors and health professionals have been so nice to him lately.
I do like Karon, although he links to "The Thinking Man's Guide to the World Cup," which.... well, I'd rather ask, when will America be free of the scourge of Dave Eggers?
The US would *never* do that. And violate someone's intellectual property rights? Isn't allofmp3.com being cited as a reason to keep Russia out of some global trade federation of some kind?
117: Huh, it was partly a joke about jargon, but philosophers definitely use "conditionalizing on" a lot. Though Googling I see "conditioning on" is probably at least as common even in philosophy.
I also can't see the US setting up giant projection screens in public squares, like they do all across Europe. Not only does that run against American cultural standards, it would probably seem like a huge security risk. Hell, it might *be* one.
I was going to say, "stipulating" seems like something a philosopher would say (or a lawyer? but is there a difference?)
Whereas, with me, probabilities are just little annotations I affix to my logical formulae. Subjective, in the best sense of the word! "OggedSport" seemed like a perfectly nice little variable, in this context.
We say "stipulating" all the time but I don't think it goes with probabilities in this way. Ergh, I think that I should probably launch into an explanation of the difference between stipulating and conditionalization but I don't feel like it.
Lawyers have more money and get to live where they want. I'm sure some of the lawyers can think of other differences.
And a continuous clock, too. So it's *actually* 45 minutes, and just nominally 45 minutes, like it would be in some other sport like the NBA or whatever. Ads every five minutes, fah.
ARRRGH! While I was devoting my attention to efiling the two briefs I didn't write, my secretary fucked up the margins in the brief I did write and changed all the page numbers in the Table of Contents and Authorities to match. ARRRRRGH!!!!
You should have her killed, it's only appropriate.
I'm now not totally certain that I didn't fuck up the margins myself, before giving it to her -- I just don't know when the document was last right. But dammit, even if I did she should have noticed and fixed it.
But it's all fixed and filed now -- I'm at this moment nervously checking PACER to make sure that I actually did file the right documents, rather than Sally's birthday party invitations. E-filing terrifies me that way.
There seem to be a dearth of Soccer Tribute Bands out there, although I did find Cornerkick.
There are a number of famous soccer tribute songs. Perhaps the best known is Blue Öyster Cult's "Don't Fear the Keeper". Lots of nice cowbell on that one too.
208: As you know, no. In the context in which I'm using it both "relativist" and "relativistic" are used pretty widely, but I don't feel like checking if there's a difference.
Okay, I have another online dating question. So I was corresponding with this really hot guy who lives in my neighborhood, and writes for an ad agency so probably has a nice comfy apartment, and to be perfectly honest I was really just hoping that since this one started off on a kind of more explicit foot maybe we could just have sex, which I was really, um, in the mood for since Graham said we couldn't see each other for four weeks, but why, why, why did he have to send my a link to his website that includes, among other things, his really crappy poetry? He like, wants to be a writer; it's not just a silly hobby. The fiction links don't work so I can't see if that's any better, but I feel like I just can't be attracted to a man who writes bad poetry and puts it up on his website. But he's so hot! And I was so hopeful. I know that it hasn't been that long since I've had sex but that's the thing--it's easier once you're in the dormant phase. I am not in the dormant phase. I don't know what to do. I need to go back on the pill.
223: Fair enough, but you might get more responses there than down here in the bowels of the World Cup thread. Because as we all know, everyone hates soccer.
It seems that this guy's silly poetry would disqualify him from a relationship with Tia. But all they're looking to do is have fun sex. But, what are the chances that he ends up getting clingy and wants to have a relationship and then you're stuck with turning down a guy who write bad poetry? Not very high? Then go for it. If you're less attracted to him, then don't go for it.
Dude, sexual frustration is totally main-page material. Don't be a wimp.
That said, can't you just try to view this guy's bad poetry as an endearing flaw? Kind of like a puppy that keeps tripping over its own feet? "Awww, it's so sweet! He writes bad poetry! The poor, darling thing...."
I'm with B. If you're looking for semi-casual sex, bad poetry? Not an insurmountable problem. I have, back in my badly behaved college days, started kissing a guy at a party because he was cute but boring, and it was a way to keep him from talking. (Not recommended leading-to-relationship behavior, but an entertaining evening.)
I could if it was just a little hobby. But he's trying to put together a professional website, it looks like, and have people buy artsy stuff from him (it's hard to tell what it will be because it's still in development), and his poems are featured prominently on the site. If someone shyly showed me their crappy poem, I'd think it was endearing, but if I think someone is bad at what they consider their main endeavor in life, that's really a turn-off.
Anyway, I think it will work out with this other guy, so it's not such a huge loss.
I've been stuck here waiting for my clueless fellow-associate who's afraid to e-file on her own (all right, it worries me but I do it) and can't get her motion done during daylight long enough that I think I'm entering dormancy.
In the Peace Corps we called it 'having your hymen grow back'.
I have, back in my badly behaved college days, started kissing a guy at a party because he was cute but boring, and it was a way to keep him from talking.
Man, that dude totally stole my Method With the Ladies. And to add insult to injury, it sounds like he was more successful with it too. He actually got someone to kiss him? Damn.
The two years in the Peace Corps weren't hard at all, once I got far enough away from the last time I'd had sex.
But I thought in Samoa that everyone was having sex with everyone else all the time? Wasn't there some book, by Margaret somebody-or-other, about this?
But, what are the chances that he ends up getting clingy and wants to have a relationship and then you're stuck with turning down a guy who write bad poetry?
I bet it would inspire some great bad poetry though. Do it for the Art, Tia, the Art!
I'm going out later, I swear, but in the meantime I have a question? Do any of you up on publishing/contemporary lit types know of someone who has published one book and has another forthcoming, who lives in Brooklyn, and whose first initial is E? He's cute and has dark curly hair. I'm actually not sure if it's fiction or what.
I'm working right now, but I promise to explain later why I disagree.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:02 PM
Yeah, I feel a bit like the show has lost steam. And can we get rid of Tony's psychiatry sessions already? Bo-ring.
I still like the show, but I hated the episode where Christopher flew out to LA to try to get his script picked up. I really hate the in-joke winking and celebrities-playing-themselves. That kind of crap belongs in lesser shows.
Posted by dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:09 PM
I have never watched this show. Would it be worth picking up season 1 on DVD (worth relative to other TV shows, of course, not worth in global-hunger-ending sense) ?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:16 PM
Have you already seen The Wire, Cala? From what little I've seen, The Sopranos is Not As Good. (But then, so little is...)
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:17 PM
The Wire is hands-down the best program on television, and I truly think it's racism that has prevented that show from picking up every applicable award for its first three seasons.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:19 PM
I haven't seen The Wire. It's good, too, I take it?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:24 PM
Hands-down, the best program on television!
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:28 PM
Racism or discomfort with its portrayal of the War on (some) Drugs?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:35 PM
Here's another anti.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 12:54 PM
8: Is it that the show itself deals with racist tropes, or that the awards organizations are racist?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 6:24 PM
I watched the first two seasons, and then stopped. Not enough good guys, neither tragedy or melodrama. Macbeth or Michael Corleone were good guys, or close enough, gone bad; mostly the Sopranos felt like watching Eichmann's home movies.
"it shows how the stressors these scumbags face are pretty much the same as all of ours; they're just picking the most pathological response."
And why is this interesting or entertaining? I had about 15 years personal experience with pathological subcultures, and I didn't learn much that was useful; I don't a rerun. I find the guy who creates a 50 ft ball of gum wrappers more enlightening
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 6:38 PM
12:correction, and not to the omitted "need".
I learned compassion in those 15 years, and The Sopranos was just unrelievedly painful.
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 6:40 PM
No, it's worth it in a global-hunger-ending sense...
Posted by Scott Lemieux | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 9:36 PM
3 and 6
Do you not have HBO at all? No Wire? No Deadwood? No Curb Your Enthusiasm?
My God.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 8-06 11:57 PM
Here we go.
It hurts to root for Germany, a little. I like Klinsmann, but the way I feel about Torsten Frings is something like the way I feel about Aaron Boone.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:16 AM
Despite Wanchope, this is really going to be a blowout. Costa rica can't keep giving the germans this much room so near the goal and maintain even a tie. Final score... 5-1? 5-2?
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:18 AM
Man, I can't wait until the NFL season starts.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:22 AM
How many MLS players does Costa Rica have? That's... not so good.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:22 AM
NFL: the "other" football.
Come over to the darkside, apostropher! I'm a north carolinian too, I'm proof that it can happen.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:23 AM
I grew up playing soccer. But fantasy soccer is teh lame.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:26 AM
Nice offsides call, twice now (including the non-call on Wanchope).
Normally I really dislike this ESPN announcing pair, Dave O'Brien and Marcelo Balboa. But they're not doing too badly today, a pleasant surprise.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:27 AM
"fantasy" soccer? Man, the WC is the soccer of my fantasies! I've been waiting for it for like, two years now (I mean, "actively waiting.")
And the US team, oof, enough to give me ulcers. Maybe I'm too ... excited.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:29 AM
Is the referee wearing a mic? What is that thing on the side of his face?
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:31 AM
If we could get M/tch into soccer and arthegall into midget tribute bands, this would be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:34 AM
Maybe I'm too ...
blinded by hatred of AmeriKKKa to recognize that soccer isn't patriotic?
Okay, I'm done now.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:34 AM
Here's another anti.
Oh, dear God, I know her. Or knew her. Knew her whole family growing up. Had a crush on her in second grade. Reading her website depresses me.
I could say more, but instead I think I'll just post this without my name attached to it.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:34 AM
Here's the thing... I mean, I'm not normally very patriotic when it comes to sports. National Baseball team? Whatever. Olympics? meh.
But *soccer*... I don't know what it is. I love the team. I love thinking about new players. I love watching 'em. Maybe it's that most of our good players play overseas, and seeing them play on the national team is the only time I'll get to watch them. But whatever the reason...
I'm obsessed with the USMNT.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:37 AM
cute backheel pass...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:42 AM
26- Why does reading her blog depress you? She's a good (imaginary blog)friend of mine.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:43 AM
metzelder with teh sh4nk.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:44 AM
balboa's right, germany's playing a dangerous game in the back.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:45 AM
14: gswift, it was between wireless internet and ubercable. Plus, most network shows I've mostly watched on DVD. TV is much better in huge doses every sixth months.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:47 AM
Soccer has a better atmosphere when the crowds sing.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:53 AM
29: I'd rather not go into details publicly, as that wouldn't be nice, and I'm not eager to have contact with her again (in the event that she might see something here and figure out who wrote it.) In part it's the inevitable distance between one's memory of a person and how they appear to one today. Plus a lot of other things.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:55 AM
Just out of pure curiosity, are you a regular anonymizing yourself or a lurker delurking anonymously?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:01 AM
I can't find the soccer games. Where are they being broadcast?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:02 AM
ESPN2, or Univision!
The 2nd half is just about to start.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:03 AM
Also: why do all the germans have the worst haircuts?
The US only has one player with a haircut that bad: Bobby Convey.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:05 AM
ESPN2, today. Schedule.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:06 AM
Wow, Fonseca with a nice diving header.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:06 AM
Jeez, one touch and Frings is completely free inside the box? Germany's not the only one playing a dangerous game...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:10 AM
First possession of the game for CR, and they can't seem to do much with it. I *still* think this'll be a blowout...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:12 AM
FWIW, the (quite good) NYT soccer blog is doing a live play-by-play posting, for realz.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:17 AM
Klose!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:19 AM
And a deadly goal from Klose.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:21 AM
Is this the finale or something? Who's playing?
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:21 AM
No no! It's the opening game, in Germany. Germans vs. Costa Ricans. There is literally a month of soccer to follow. It's sorta like heaven.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:22 AM
It's fun. Pick a team in each group to root for. And it's easy to follow, the rules being basically a) kick the ball b) don't kick it offsides and c) don't kick it out of bounds.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:23 AM
Oh. Go Costa Rica!
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:23 AM
Yes! And if you're American, consider picking the US team. :-)
"Offsides" is the most misunderstood rule in soccer: it's kinda like a moving blue line, if you're familiar with hockey.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:24 AM
These are the groups. The "1st round" involves every team playing every other team in their group once (so, 32 teams, 8 groups, so every team plays 3 games). You get 3pts for a win, 1pt for a tie. At the end of the 1st round, the top two teams from each group pass through to the 2nd round.
The 2nd round, with 16 teams, is then a 4-round single-elimination tournament.
The final game is on July 9th!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:27 AM
That was a poor call on the out-of-bounds in the corner...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:29 AM
wanchope! again1
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:31 AM
That was clearly offsides.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:32 AM
wow wow wow... that's crazy. wanchope's crazy good...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:32 AM
Actually, what's the rule? If one foot is offsides but the other isn't, is that onsides?
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:33 AM
mmmm... yeah, I was out of the room for the first replay. Oof, offsides, you're totally right.
Still. That's the trap, right? You play with fire, you're gonna get burned.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:33 AM
As I recall, the rule is termed in words like "closer" and "level." I doubt anyone would call offsides for a foot, it's usually judged in terms of "where your body is," relative to where the defender's body is.
At least, that's the way I was taught when I first learned (taught as a ref, I should say, back in the day.)
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:37 AM
Wow, 2 quick chances for germany, and clearing the ball off the line. Crazy!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:38 AM
But I don't think it matters for the 2nd wanchope goal, 'cause I think the replay shows he's pretty much clearly offsides. But those things are very quick, very hard to call, and a good linesman will probably use the sound of the ball being kicked to help him judge, and even that's pretty deceptive for really close plays...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:39 AM
Here is the offsides rule.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:41 AM
Offsides can be tricky, but as someone who learned the rules of soccer pretty much during the last World Cup, it's many times simpler than, say, trying to explain 'offensive pass interference' to a British friend.
Rooting for the U.S. is good. Picking a former colony to root for is good, too. And rooting for one of the favorites is also advisable, so you have someone to watch in the DE rounds.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:41 AM
And Dave O'Brien's right... even a tie for Costa Rica here is like a win, a huge success.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:41 AM
Cala's exactly right...
The deal with offsides, is that it has two parts.
The first is just identifying that you're in an offsides position. You're in such a position if there is exactly one defender between you and the end line (not zero, and not two or more ... the one defender is usually the goalie, although not always).
That's being in the offsides position, but it's not a penalty if you are.
What *is* a penalty is if, while in such a position, some plays the ball to you. (Or if you interfere with a play that starts while you're in the offsides position.)
And then, the other team gets a free kick from (roughly) where you were.
So you can think of the 2nd-to-last defender as kind of a moving blue line, as in hockey.
And it's built so that you get beautiful goals, through-balls are played through and then you get a footrace...
Jaysus, what a goal from Frings.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:45 AM
In "Knowing and Asserting," published in The Philosophical Review, Timothy Williamson claims (JSTOR link) that "It is said that the offsides rule in rugby union is being breached most of the time." Yet when this article was reprinted as chapter 11 of Knowledge and Its Limits the sentence became "In some sports, it is said that some rules are being breached most of the time." I wonder if the Rugby Union people got to him. (I just noticed this change now.)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:46 AM
Ghod that sucked. Link goes here.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:47 AM
Was Neuville offsides? That looks like a bad call too, right?
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:48 AM
In the last WC, England's backline basically crept up very very carefully the whole game to keep Argentina's players accidentally offsides. Everyone does it, but England did it really well.
The cool thing about offsides, is, if I remember this correctly, if you're just barely not offsides when the ball is kicked, you can dart 'offsides'. So you get this cool dynamic of the far-out people trying to stay just onsides, and the opposing defense trying to keep them just offsides.
It's to keep teams from planting one dude near the goalie and just booting it to him so he can plink it in.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:50 AM
Wow... 4-2 Germany, and an exciting game to boot. That was pretty fun.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:52 AM
Zikka-zakka-zikka-zakka! Hoi hoi hoi!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:52 AM
14: hell, I don't even have a television. Ok, I realize I'm commenting a bit late :)
Posted by soubzriquet. | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:53 AM
Yeah, organized back-lines can use it to good effect. For instance, after a free kick, if every one of them sprints forward together, you can basically "clear" the area around your goal quickly and effectively.
But playing the offsides trap as a consistent tactic... that's what Germany did in this game, and they got burned twice. Not every team does it -- it's basically an equalizing tactic. Like, if your defense isn't quite as talented (speed, touch on the ball, height) as the opposing team, you can make up for it by being more organized, by moving together as a unit and anticipating the passes from the other team... and then right as the other team's about to pass it through, you step up together, and quickly kill any kind of offense.
But if you make a mistake, you're essentially giving the other team free shots at your goal. It's like playing with fire.
And yeah, the effect of the total rule is to create these kind of foot-race situations, and to reward practice and timing and coordination between midfielders and their forwards.
It's no mistake to say that the offsides rule is what gives soccer a lot of its beauty.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:57 AM
But welcome anyway! I'd been thinking, "Soup biscuit hasn't been around lately." (And I don't have a TV either.)
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:58 AM
When I think of philosophers and offsides, I think of this.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:58 AM
"not jens lehmann's best game..." yeah, no sh*t eric.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:58 AM
Did you used to play seriously?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 11:59 AM
"marx is claiming it was offside," that's excellent.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:00 PM
I can't believe even ESPN is doing these awful Jim McKay gauzy-soft-music-filled overview clips. GAaaaaaaaaaaaagh.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:01 PM
Who are you asking, Cala?
(Oh man, I get excited every time I see that clip of McBride heading it in against Portugal. Goosebumps!)
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:02 PM
You, only because people who know that much about soccer in the U.S. are former players (as opposed to basketball fans.)
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:03 PM
people who know that much about soccer in the U.S. are
terrorists, Communists, or Adam Blickstein.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:08 PM
Ah! No, not "seriously." Um, I always played on youth teams growing up, until I went to college. Because I wasn't good enough to play in college, I also was a referee through high school and college.
So... yeah. I mean, soccer isn't what I "do." But I am definitely obsessed, as I'm sure is clear here.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:08 PM
or communist terrorists!
If the US doesn't make the 2nd round, then the terrorists have already won!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:09 PM
Tab Ramos, looking old man...
But the Caligiuri goal, man. Good times...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:10 PM
As the soccer season continues to play out, expect to see more anticommunist teams rise to the surface and watch for the diminishing importance of entrenched endorsements.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:12 PM
Worst bar-chart evar.
In case it's not eminently clear, I'm live-commenting on the between-game ESPN banter. I have no life.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:14 PM
I liked the adidas commercial with the little kids and the soccer stars.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:16 PM
Yeah, it's pretty good. Did you catch the long version just a few minutes ago, with Zidane whispering "Platini" in the kid's ear? That was awesome.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:17 PM
I'm curious about Group D, with Mexico, Iran, Angola, and um, some fourth country. Who do you think is going to make it out of that group, arthegall?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:18 PM
Group D is one of the weakest, I think, but the smart money is on Portugal and Mexico, probably in that order.
I don't know ... Mexico got a seed in this WC draw, which was controversial in some quarters. But they're a good team, for sure. Portugal is a bit of an unknown... they're always good, of course, and they've got Christiano Ronaldo, who is suh-weeet... and Angola is supposedly pretty weak (I haven't seen them play). And who knows with Iran?
But yeah, I'd say, Portugal and Mexico.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:20 PM
I'm actually pretty surprised with this ESPN coverage, the between-game banter actually seems pretty good. Wynalda and Foudy, much better (comparatively) than I last remember them to be...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:21 PM
goWhat *is* a penalty is if, while in such a position, some plays the ball to you. (Or if you interfere with a play that starts while you're in the offsides position.)
I thought that if you were in offsides position, and the ball is passed to you, but you don't touch it until the ball is between you and the goal line, you were in the clear. No?
Ah, I see I'm right, because offsides position means "he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent." So if the ball is on the other side of you, you aren't in offsides position.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:22 PM
The problem with selecting winners is that... you know, everyone selects the teams they've seen play. In 2002, everyone in "the know" had seen Portugal, with Figo, and thought: "there's a team that'll go all the way, maybe win it all." They were a fashionable choice as a dark-horse winner.
And no one saw the US coming, and Portugal didn't even make it to the 2nd round.
Soccer's totally a team game, and the lesser teams have figured out how to pack the midfield .... you can play one guy up front, 5 in the midfield, and if you play a stiff defense and a counter-attacking game, you can occasionally knock off the big guys.
And so ... you know, who knows? I haven't seen Iran play, but if they play organized, and they don't have many injuries, they could totally knock off someone like either Portugal or Mexico...
It's a weird game, sometimes.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:25 PM
Without having any idea what it means or what it refers to, I would venture to say that 70, by its very nature, gets it exactly right.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:27 PM
Did Iran just come out of nowhere? Has it not usually qualified for the WC?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:28 PM
I think that's right, ben. If you're giving chase to the ball because it was passed behind you, I *think* it's okay and not offsides.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:28 PM
70: It's a German soccer chant (or so I've been told) that probably isn't even in fashion these days, that I learned in German classes when I was eleven. (One person does the zikkas, everyone else shouts 'hoi hoi hoi')
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:29 PM
Oh, oh... Yeah, I forgot. To be in an offsides position, three things need to be true:
(a) you need to be in the opponent's half of the field (that's usually trivial)
(b) you need to be ahead of the ball (you can't be offside s if the ball is past you, on the field)
and (c), the thing about one defender between you and the endline.
The "typical" offsides is if you're in an offsides position, and then someone plays the ball to you (even if you "come back" for the ball -- what matters is where you are when the ball is initially struck. That's why you can stay onsides until the ball is played, then outrace the defender to reach the ball, producing "beautiful play.")
But the situation you describe, where the ball doesn't touch you... that's the "interference" aside I made.
Like, if someone scores, and when they score you're in an offsides position but on the other side of the field, having nothing to do with the play... that's okay, not offsides.
But if you (for instance) are right there *in* the play, but you let the ball roll by you, without touching it, you can still be offsides. The reasoning is that you're still "interfering" with the play... the goalie and defenders are still reacting to you as if you could touch it, so you're "in the play" even if you don't touch the ball.
You can also interfere by (say) grabbing the defenders, or otherwise distracting people.
So touching the ball is the usual way in which someone is offsides, but the "interference" clause is added to prevent stupid loophole situations.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:31 PM
Iran qualified (and beat us, in group play) in '98. I don't remember in 2002? They are, I think, historically, a strong Asian team. But (and this is just me) they're likely not as good as Mexico (and certainly not as good as Portugal).
"Strong in Asia" is still (usually) weak in a worldwide sense. South Korea in 2002 was totally a surprise to a lot of people.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:33 PM
Man, that Lahm goal, I could watch that over and over. It's a beautiful shot. That was such a nice game to have two goals on such amazing strikes.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:34 PM
15: Are we talking about the same Aaron Boone who has only shown any talent for like one of one seasonw while playing in a bandbox, was an idiotic signing by the Yankees, and then happened to get lucky and have the hit that won a tied game in extra-innings? Because, assuming you're a Boston fan, you should really hope that the Yankees just fill up with Aaron Boone clones.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:34 PM
South Korea in 2002 was totally a surprise to a lot of people.
I still wonder about the refereeing in the Spain game.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:36 PM
Yeah, *that* Aaron Boone. I'm just saying, Aaron Boone, and Torsten Frickin' Frings, are in the same breath for me. Frings handballed a would-have-been-a-goal off the line in 2002, and we lost that game. I hate 'im.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:36 PM
Iran qualified (and beat us, in group play) in '98. I don't remember in 2002? They are, I think, historically, a strong Asian team. But (and this is just me) they're likely not as good as Mexico (and certainly not as good as Portugal).
This is confusing. IIRC, "Iranian" is a subset of "Mexican."
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:37 PM
102: yeah, it was lame (against Italy, too!)
But at the same time, they were still a fine team. And people always underestimate how much of an advantage it is, to be the home team.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:37 PM
Whom do you like in F, other than Brazil?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:38 PM
Can we get armbands? WWORF?
(Who would -gg-d root for?)
or WWOSITWC?
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:39 PM
FWWOR, you mean.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:41 PM
Who Would Ogged Say Is Teh Wicked-Cool?
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:42 PM
2nd in F has been a mystery for a lot of people. Australia has qualified for the first time in a long time (or ever? I can't remember). The "Socceroos," gotta love the team name. And they've got a couple of excellent players, Viduka and Kewell. So some people like them.
Japan, also has some strong players, and is coached by Zico, the Brazilian legend. But the latest news I'd heard from them was that Nakata (star striker) saying the team was in shambles?
Personally, I call Croatia. European team, playing in Europe. Babic in midfield, Prso's not bad up front, right? I don't know much about them, but I guess Croatia, it's probably the safest bet.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:44 PM
FWWOR, you mean.
Such pedantry, up with which I shall not put.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:44 PM
Cast Off Your Old Tired Rules of Grammar!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:45 PM
FWWOR: Brazil, unless he watches solely to get his dander up.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:45 PM
Fuck to oboe. My comment should have said "one half of one season", not "one of one seasonw".
108: But, given his feelings on soccer, there is no answer to "For whom would ogged root?" He would probably root for earthquakes or something dangerous that still led to less soccer being played.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:46 PM
Rooting for Brazil is like Rooting for the Yankees.
Bleargh!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:47 PM
Nice to see ESPN give some love to Onyewu. However, I think their clips of him working out gave me a bit of a seizure...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:48 PM
Speaking of soccer, which I am free associating to England, what happend to Peter Snees?
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:49 PM
Rooting for Brazil is like Rooting for the Yankees.
This makes sense, since caring about soccer is like caring about baseball. [ducks, runs]
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:51 PM
At a high-level, all sports are analogous...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:52 PM
Back to the game!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 12:56 PM
For Christ's sakes, did no one besides arthegall and I play soccer growing up? What kind of liberals are you people anyways? At least do the right thing and get your kids to play.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:00 PM
I did. Play soccer, that is.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:03 PM
"even roundy-er," thanks tommy.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:05 PM
I don't know, that looks like Bak took a dive, to me.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:09 PM
I played soccer growing up. I sucked so bad that my father (an excellent hockey player) had to stop coming to my games. I kept playing for years, though.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:10 PM
I decry the dearth of sub-Saharan teams in this WC. Where are the Indomitable Lions of yesteryear?
Oh well. Go Togo!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:12 PM
A nice strike for Castillo... one of the things people have suggested, in this World Cup, is that the new Adidas ball (which they claim is "rounder" than previous balls) will lead to different movement and more goals. Balboa was claiming, in the first game, that Frings's long shot was "knuckling" (it looked like just a nasty strike, to me)...
So it'll be interesting to see if there are any weird moving long shots in a game like this...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:12 PM
Angola, Ivory Coast, and Ghana? Aren't they sub-saharan?
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:14 PM
And hey, there's our first "new technology" reference...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:15 PM
#125
He seriously stopped showing up? Damn that's harsh.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:16 PM
Why soccer isn't all that well in the USA. (Possibly unsafe for some work environments.)
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:17 PM
Angola, Ivory Coast, and Ghana? Aren't they sub-saharan?
Yes.
Still not enough for me.
More Sub-Sah!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:17 PM
I played soccer for one year when I was little. I hated it.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:17 PM
Since qualification is by geographic region, there are pretty much upper-limits on these kinds of things...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:18 PM
Ogged would root for basketball.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:19 PM
I've never played soccer. I watched some of the 94 World Cup but what really made me a soccer fan was just happening to catch the 96 Champions League final between AC Milan and Ajax Amsterdam, which is an odd thing to say, I guess, but it was a damn good game.
This comment should in no way be taken as a renunciation of my US citizenship.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:20 PM
Of course, not all Brazilian soccer fans are created equal.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:20 PM
"Basketball" is beside the point. We're conditioning on the fact that Ogged would choose a soccer team to root for.. P(Team | OggedSport=Soccer). What is the "conditional" probability, so to speak?
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:21 PM
Since qualification is by geographic region, there are pretty much upper-limits on these kinds of things...
Not in my dreams, arthegal.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:21 PM
ARRRGH! While I was devoting my attention to efiling the two briefs I didn't write, my secretary fucked up the margins in the brief I did write and changed all the page numbers in the Table of Contents and Authorities to match. ARRRRRGH!!!!
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:22 PM
What is the "conditional" probability, so to speak?
I don't know—your FACE?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:22 PM
Well, I was making daisy-chains and turning cartwheels when as fullback I was supposed to be keenly watching the action over at the other end of the field. I got marginally better as I got older, but I'd already broken my father's spirit.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:23 PM
Fring's shot twisted and curved in, but balls can do that.
The commentators: "The players have gotten stronger and faster, and now they've changed the ball and they're complaining that it's rounder, and balls were round before, so maybe it's roundier." I detect a note of sarcasm.
I didn't play soccer growing up, but in college I started playing 5 on 5 (or whatever) pickup games with some out-of-condition engineering buddies.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:23 PM
What a goal!!!!! Totally unexpected, too!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:23 PM
If we could get M/tch into soccer and arthegall into midget tribute bands, this would be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Hmmm, what about soccer tribute bands?
E.g., The Bruised Shins.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:23 PM
Ecuador!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:23 PM
140: Right-clicking on the TOC and hitting Update Field --> Update Entire Table won't help the page numbers?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:25 PM
141: Close! But no cigar. Logic trumps all, yo!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:25 PM
Also, 143: I was thinking the same thing. Frings' shot twisted to the side, and if something was knuckling I would sorta expect to move in a more vertical, less-predictable way. Before the WC, several keepers were saying, "it moves differently," but if I was a goalie, I'd say the same thing... a good excuse later on, if I let a bad one in. And if I make a lot of good saves, then I've succeeded under "knuckling" circumstances.
Frings shot was just crazy good, really.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:28 PM
And Ecuador almost makes it 2-0! Wow. Poland looks anemic.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:28 PM
Why do all the germans have the worst haircuts?
This question pretty much answers itself, no?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:29 PM
Well, I was making daisy-chains
ATM.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:29 PM
No? No! They border France, and Italy (modulo Switzerland), and *they* have decent haircuts.
I claim that haircuts should be free. Barbers without Borders. Yet Germany stands as a counter-example.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:31 PM
Wow, and now Poland's just sitting back, and Ecuador looks completely dangerous.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:32 PM
Yes, they border France and Italy. They are, however, German.
Goddamnit, I don't have cable. This is killing me.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:33 PM
I played soccer up until about age 15. Not coincidentally, that is the same age I started smoking and drinking.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:34 PM
God, enough with the "knuckleball!" The ball always moves like that!
That *was* a pretty nice free kick, though.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:38 PM
We're conditioning on the fact that Ogged would choose a soccer team to root for.. P(Team | OggedSport=Soccer). What is the "conditional" probability, so to speak?
Ugly, ugly construction. Please never use "conditioning" in that sense again. Instead, you might want to try something like "we're stipulating that -gg-d would" and et cetera.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:39 PM
I'm more comfortable with "conditioning on events," rather than "stipulating" that something is the case. I come from a different community, I guess...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:43 PM
The announcers keep saying that Ecuador is a high-altitude team, but to me, this makes little sense as endurance athletes often train at high altitudes in order to gain an advantage at lower altitudes.
Is this a joke due to Ecuador's record, or is there something about soccer than gives teams advantages? (Thin air = no knuckling?)
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:44 PM
Well, I think the point is that their record is inflated (or so the claim goes) by playing at high-altitude in Quito. It's like this with the Azteca in Mexico City too -- there's a *huge* home-team advantage, because visitors are rarely able to play at full-strength there for 90 minutes. So the question is, "they're good in Quito, but are they *as* good when they don't have the high-altitude as a 12th player for the team?"
I think the 1st half is proving that, yeah, they're a pretty decent team.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:48 PM
and there, repson just said pretty much the same thing... "23 or their 25 qualifying points came in quito, would they be as good in germany?"
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:50 PM
Oh, duh. It's the other team's inexperience with high altitude that might give Ecuador the advantage, not something weird about their high altitude training not converting to a lower altitude.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 1:58 PM
I played soccer up until about age 15. Not coincidentally, that is the same age I started smoking and drinking.
Soccer is a danger to our youth!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:02 PM
I played soccer until 9th grade. But that was in Egypt, after all.
So sad I am not watching today, but big plans for the Mexico-Iran game on Sunday. Hooray! World Cup!
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:05 PM
Tony Karon has some great coverage of the World Cup.
Here's something on Iran.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:06 PM
That linesman was definitely *not* in position to be able to make that call on the corner kick...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:06 PM
And more for you to read.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:07 PM
I wonder who ogged is going to root for in the Mexico-Iran game. On the one hand, he's Mexican, but on the other, so many Iranian doctors and health professionals have been so nice to him lately.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:08 PM
I do like Karon, although he links to "The Thinking Man's Guide to the World Cup," which.... well, I'd rather ask, when will America be free of the scourge of Dave Eggers?
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:11 PM
170: Indeed.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:14 PM
Thanks for the Karon link, eb. Good stuff.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:16 PM
I second 172.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:17 PM
158: Yeah, you should say "conditionalizing."
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:18 PM
This really, really sucks.
Goddamnit, if you're going to have a war, at least you can have some soccer, too. I am very upset!
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:22 PM
Think about how many hearts and minds the U.S. could win by figuring out how to provide World Cup coverage in Iraq.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:24 PM
"Conditionalizing?" What....? No, um, I mean, "conditioning on" is definitely the right construction.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:24 PM
Tommy Smyth says, "I've been called many things, but now I can be called a blogger as well."
He should consider that he's now been called one more thing, as well.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:25 PM
176: I was just thinking about that. The US should get on it. We should pay for it.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:27 PM
176: Apparently, Karon's going to write about that, too - he mentions it in a comment on one of those posts.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:27 PM
figuring out how to provide World Cup coverage in Iraq
We could project it onto the moon. Then, once the soccer is done, we burn GWB's face onto it with lasers.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:27 PM
The US would *never* do that. And violate someone's intellectual property rights? Isn't allofmp3.com being cited as a reason to keep Russia out of some global trade federation of some kind?
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:29 PM
Man, things are looking grim for Poland here... (The Poles are getting the shaft, perhaps?)
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:30 PM
117: Huh, it was partly a joke about jargon, but philosophers definitely use "conditionalizing on" a lot. Though Googling I see "conditioning on" is probably at least as common even in philosophy.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:31 PM
184 to 177, not 117
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:31 PM
I also can't see the US setting up giant projection screens in public squares, like they do all across Europe. Not only does that run against American cultural standards, it would probably seem like a huge security risk. Hell, it might *be* one.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:32 PM
I was going to say, "stipulating" seems like something a philosopher would say (or a lawyer? but is there a difference?)
Whereas, with me, probabilities are just little annotations I affix to my logical formulae. Subjective, in the best sense of the word! "OggedSport" seemed like a perfectly nice little variable, in this context.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:33 PM
How long is a period or a half or whatever?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:35 PM
45 minutes.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:36 PM
We say "stipulating" all the time but I don't think it goes with probabilities in this way. Ergh, I think that I should probably launch into an explanation of the difference between stipulating and conditionalization but I don't feel like it.
Lawyers have more money and get to live where they want. I'm sure some of the lawyers can think of other differences.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:37 PM
And a continuous clock, too. So it's *actually* 45 minutes, and just nominally 45 minutes, like it would be in some other sport like the NBA or whatever. Ads every five minutes, fah.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:37 PM
Whereas, with me, probabilities are just little annotations I affix to my logical formulae.
This has nothing to do with the ugliness of the phrase you used, nor does it excuse it.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:38 PM
So much for Poland.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:38 PM
Offsides? But in the words of Bill Paxson, "Game over man, Game over!" (What are we gonna do now?)
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:38 PM
Wolfson only appreciates cute phrases, I suppose.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:40 PM
191 should read "not just nominally," bleah.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:41 PM
I also can't see the US setting up giant projection screens in public squares...it would probably seem like a huge security risk.
It would be especially risky in Bryant Park.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:42 PM
Off the post! If I was polish, I'd be dead of a heartattack by now. Probably the way I will feel in 3 days...
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:43 PM
Posted by Link missing from 197 | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:44 PM
192: This has nothing to do with the ugliness of the phrase you used, nor does it excuse it.
I have a lot of sympathy for you, but you'll have to get used to it in philosophy.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:46 PM
What if instead of giving every American a $100 gas tax break, we just paid for TVs and cable coverage for every Iraqi?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:46 PM
201: exactly the kind of suggestion that should get american hearts racing....
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:48 PM
The post, again!!
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:48 PM
ARRRGH! While I was devoting my attention to efiling the two briefs I didn't write, my secretary fucked up the margins in the brief I did write and changed all the page numbers in the Table of Contents and Authorities to match. ARRRRRGH!!!!
You should have her killed, it's only appropriate.
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:50 PM
"Raising many a bushy eyebrow," heh.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:50 PM
Wow, 2-0 Ecuador. You gotta say, this is probably the first (minor) upset of the world cup. Pretty impressive.
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:53 PM
Any opinions on when I should use 'relativistic' and when 'relativist'? I'm leaning toward 'relativist' always.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:55 PM
Any opinions on when I should use 'relativistic' and when 'relativist'? I'm leaning toward 'relativist' always.
Are you a physicist?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:56 PM
I'm now not totally certain that I didn't fuck up the margins myself, before giving it to her -- I just don't know when the document was last right. But dammit, even if I did she should have noticed and fixed it.
But it's all fixed and filed now -- I'm at this moment nervously checking PACER to make sure that I actually did file the right documents, rather than Sally's birthday party invitations. E-filing terrifies me that way.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:57 PM
What if instead of giving every American a $100 gas tax break, we just paid for TVs and cable coverage for every Iraqi?
We could easily do that, because we would only need to do that for each household in Iraq, and there are a lot fewer Iraqis than Americans.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 2:58 PM
There seem to be a dearth of Soccer Tribute Bands out there, although I did find Cornerkick.
There are a number of famous soccer tribute songs. Perhaps the best known is Blue Öyster Cult's "Don't Fear the Keeper". Lots of nice cowbell on that one too.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:00 PM
Aye @ 205.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:00 PM
Thanks for the company, everyone! See you tomorrow morning, bright and early :-)
Posted by arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:00 PM
Ah, and now I remember that Kate Bush did a whole soccer tribute album: The Kick Offside.
And back to bands, how could I forget the Throw-In Muses?
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:10 PM
208: As you know, no. In the context in which I'm using it both "relativist" and "relativistic" are used pretty widely, but I don't feel like checking if there's a difference.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:11 PM
Not to mention World Cup Party.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:12 PM
210: Exactly.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:19 PM
Maybe it's like the distinction between "Hellenic" and "Hellenistic".
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 3:24 PM
Okay, I have another online dating question. So I was corresponding with this really hot guy who lives in my neighborhood, and writes for an ad agency so probably has a nice comfy apartment, and to be perfectly honest I was really just hoping that since this one started off on a kind of more explicit foot maybe we could just have sex, which I was really, um, in the mood for since Graham said we couldn't see each other for four weeks, but why, why, why did he have to send my a link to his website that includes, among other things, his really crappy poetry? He like, wants to be a writer; it's not just a silly hobby. The fiction links don't work so I can't see if that's any better, but I feel like I just can't be attracted to a man who writes bad poetry and puts it up on his website. But he's so hot! And I was so hopeful. I know that it hasn't been that long since I've had sex but that's the thing--it's easier once you're in the dormant phase. I am not in the dormant phase. I don't know what to do. I need to go back on the pill.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:03 PM
You know, you have the power to post to the main page.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:06 PM
I hear that one of the main page posters has an advice column.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:07 PM
I just got sent to:
No kittens, thought.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:08 PM
I don't really feel like putting my complaints about how sexually frustrated I am on the main page.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:08 PM
me, not thought
Posted by though | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:09 PM
223: Fair enough, but you might get more responses there than down here in the bowels of the World Cup thread. Because as we all know, everyone hates soccer.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:12 PM
Dormant phase?
It seems that this guy's silly poetry would disqualify him from a relationship with Tia. But all they're looking to do is have fun sex. But, what are the chances that he ends up getting clingy and wants to have a relationship and then you're stuck with turning down a guy who write bad poetry? Not very high? Then go for it. If you're less attracted to him, then don't go for it.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:12 PM
Hey, since I wrote that comment this guy I hooked up with a long time ago who I recently emailed wrote me back. Awesome! Pre-screened.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:15 PM
Dormant phase?
I don't know about you all, but not having sex gets easier for me when the TiVo counter gets high.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:21 PM
Dude, sexual frustration is totally main-page material. Don't be a wimp.
That said, can't you just try to view this guy's bad poetry as an endearing flaw? Kind of like a puppy that keeps tripping over its own feet? "Awww, it's so sweet! He writes bad poetry! The poor, darling thing...."
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:24 PM
I'm with B. If you're looking for semi-casual sex, bad poetry? Not an insurmountable problem. I have, back in my badly behaved college days, started kissing a guy at a party because he was cute but boring, and it was a way to keep him from talking. (Not recommended leading-to-relationship behavior, but an entertaining evening.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:31 PM
228: I couldn't agree more.
Getting into the dormant phase is the hardest part.
I dunno man. Bad poetry (and! posting it?!) might be a disqualifier, even just for sex.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:32 PM
I could if it was just a little hobby. But he's trying to put together a professional website, it looks like, and have people buy artsy stuff from him (it's hard to tell what it will be because it's still in development), and his poems are featured prominently on the site. If someone shyly showed me their crappy poem, I'd think it was endearing, but if I think someone is bad at what they consider their main endeavor in life, that's really a turn-off.
Anyway, I think it will work out with this other guy, so it's not such a huge loss.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:34 PM
Maybe you should ask for some of the fiction. If that's better, I say go for it.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:34 PM
288: Me too. The two years in the Peace Corps weren't hard at all, once I got far enough away from the last time I'd had sex.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:34 PM
230 -- there is a song covering that exact situation.
Posted by NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:36 PM
I wonder how long it takes to get in the dormant phase. I say 6 weeks.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 4:38 PM
I've been stuck here waiting for my clueless fellow-associate who's afraid to e-file on her own (all right, it worries me but I do it) and can't get her motion done during daylight long enough that I think I'm entering dormancy.
In the Peace Corps we called it 'having your hymen grow back'.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 5:12 PM
I have, back in my badly behaved college days, started kissing a guy at a party because he was cute but boring, and it was a way to keep him from talking.
Man, that dude totally stole my Method With the Ladies. And to add insult to injury, it sounds like he was more successful with it too. He actually got someone to kiss him? Damn.
The two years in the Peace Corps weren't hard at all, once I got far enough away from the last time I'd had sex.
But I thought in Samoa that everyone was having sex with everyone else all the time? Wasn't there some book, by Margaret somebody-or-other, about this?
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 7:21 PM
But, what are the chances that he ends up getting clingy and wants to have a relationship and then you're stuck with turning down a guy who write bad poetry?
I bet it would inspire some great bad poetry though. Do it for the Art, Tia, the Art!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 7:24 PM
Also, speaking of soccer, this is sad.
Go Sparrowhawks!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 7:26 PM
34- I feel I haven't defended Sheila's honor enough. Sheila's honor, defended!
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06- 9-06 10:19 PM
I'm going out later, I swear, but in the meantime I have a question? Do any of you up on publishing/contemporary lit types know of someone who has published one book and has another forthcoming, who lives in Brooklyn, and whose first initial is E? He's cute and has dark curly hair. I'm actually not sure if it's fiction or what.
Posted by Tia | Link to this comment | 06-10-06 6:37 PM
241: I'm not sure her honor was attacked.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 06-11-06 1:44 PM
Just in case.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 06-11-06 7:27 PM
when will America be free of the scourge of Dave Eggers?
Subjective or objective genitive, there?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 06-15-06 2:38 PM