I am sure this is a good idea, but it is way too reminiscent of the pictures of the chicken and the crab that were commented on here in the past month or so.
Oh, ick. You realize that you've just lowered the odds that people will actually try out the best way to grill chicken.
I hope you're happy.
(You know people grill crabs live, pushing them back into the center of the grill as they try to escape? I normally don't care much about invertebrates, but that's over my limit.)
6: The marinade seems to speed up cooking time too -- at least I never get that 'It's been on the grill forever and the bones are still bloody' thing. For chicken pieces, you do want the lid on the Weber to keep the temperature up.
But nothing wrong with boiling first, or a couple of minutes in the mike even better, as not leaching flavor out of the meat.
And 7: The kinship is clear when you think about it, but it doesn't come out much like tandoori chicken. Juicier, and of course the yogurt marinade doesn't get you to tandoori chicken without the spice rub. (Which you could do, or you could do any other kind of spice rub.)
Many moons ago, IIRC, somebody was prosecuted in England for throwing a live prawn on a grill, and I think the judges decided that the animal's nervous system was too rudimentary for it to count as cruelty. Tried to google, failed dismally. The case was used in an Ethics exam at Oxford.
Chicken tikka masala is sometimes barely above mediocre, sometimes orgasmically good. It's an odd dish.
As I understand it, the dish was invented when some English dude, eating tandoori chicken, was like "My, but this chicken is marvelous, but it needs some gravy."
The acid probably works like a tenderizer, chewing up all the tough bits. I wish I had a grill. I really miss that about summers; it's too hot to cook in the kitchen, so a lot of dinners seem to involve rationalizing that ice cream should really count as a dinner as it has protein.
34: yes, it's like that acid way of "cooking" fish. I forget the name. My son's science project this past year was on that. He used all kinds of household acids, varying the ph. He's a kitchen scientist, that boy; Ferran Adria or Alton Brown, here we come.
40: A couple recent-ish popular ones are How to Read a French Fry and two volumes of What Einstein Told His Cook. Also Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking, less popular but more useful.
Thank God the FISHPLOSION shrapnel and noise have dissipated.
I think the one that had been casually recommended to me was the snappily titled What Einstein Told His Cook, but I'm going to check out the McGee book first. Thanks, guys.
What best to thin the yogurt with? I can think offhand of lemon or lime juice, vinegar, wine, milk, or tamari to make the yogurt more of a marinade consistency. Or are you using it straight? (All of lemon/lime juice, vinegar, and tamari are more strongly acidic than yogurt, I think; it can't just be the acid since acidity is a pretty common property of marinades. Also: what if we marinated the chicken in brewer's yeast until it fermented? Then we would have a chicken-based alcoholic beverage. (I suppose we would need to add some kind of sugar to the mixture for the yeast properly to thrive.) The world has been without liquid fowl for too long! says I.
LB is right about yoghurt. Here's the marinade I used July 4th in making kebabs of boneless chicken breasts for the grill:
lowfat plain yoghurt
lime juice (not much)
chopped cilantro
ground coriander seeds (a fair amount of that)
I put it in that for about 4 hours. Also made lamb kebabs marinated in white wine, olive oil, white wine vinegar, pepper, and fresh mint, and vegatable kebabs, too.
53: No thinning -- just dump chicken pieces and yougurt into a bowl, and turn to cover. Not that all of the other things you mention mightn't add something, but they aren't necessary.
You can do the same marinade to bake. Add blackberries to the yoghurt, mash up. Add whole berries, toss in the chicken. Let it hold a good long while- it'll dye the chicken flesh a little purple. Bake as usual, it is really excellent.
40: You're probably thinking of something by Harold McGee (both On Food and Cooking and The Curious Cook are great).
On the question of yogurt's efficacy: It's probably not just the acid. The yogurt almost certainly has salt in it, and so in effect you're brining the chicken before grilling it, which is always a good thing to do. (Check out the recipes in the recent grilling issue of Cook's Illustrated--they all recommend brining.)
The acid is probably tenderizing the meat a little, but over the course of a couple of hours it's not going to penetrate too far into the chicken (unlike the salt, which is handled much more efficiently by osmotic action).
My basic - very basic - ceviche goes like so: Using a glass bowl, cover the scallops or snapper pieces with lime juice. Cover and refrigerate overnight, tossing once or twice. Next day, drain the fish, and add slivered red peppers and chilis, chunks of avocado (toss these with lemon or lime juice first), chopped cilantro, and maybe celery for crunch.
This and gazpacho are two dishes I make constantly during summer.
Dude. I've missed like the last three food threads. Stupid vacation.
Also good: marinate a whole turkey breast in greek-style yogurt with curry spices of your choice and garlic. Grill slowly over a wood fire until cooked through and very tender. Pull turkey as for pulled pork. Serve in pitas with a cucumber yogurt sauce (like tadziki), onions, cucumbers, and tomatos.
I am sure this is a good idea, but it is way too reminiscent of the pictures of the chicken and the crab that were commented on here in the past month or so.
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:02 AM
Oh, ick. You realize that you've just lowered the odds that people will actually try out the best way to grill chicken.
I hope you're happy.
(You know people grill crabs live, pushing them back into the center of the grill as they try to escape? I normally don't care much about invertebrates, but that's over my limit.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:13 AM
no, no... kebabs of chicken wrapped in bacon are what you're looking for here.
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:14 AM
You know people grill crabs live, pushing them back into the center of the grill as they try to escape?
The people who pull the wings off of flies, maybe.
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:15 AM
Wrap them in bacon, sure, but marinate them in yogurt first. Trust me -- try it and you won't go back.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:15 AM
Where do you stand on boiling the chicken before grilling it?
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:17 AM
Think "tandoori chicken".
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:17 AM
6: The marinade seems to speed up cooking time too -- at least I never get that 'It's been on the grill forever and the bones are still bloody' thing. For chicken pieces, you do want the lid on the Weber to keep the temperature up.
But nothing wrong with boiling first, or a couple of minutes in the mike even better, as not leaching flavor out of the meat.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:21 AM
7: Indeed. I was thinking "doesn't some Indian cooking require a yogurt marinade?"
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:23 AM
And 7: The kinship is clear when you think about it, but it doesn't come out much like tandoori chicken. Juicier, and of course the yogurt marinade doesn't get you to tandoori chicken without the spice rub. (Which you could do, or you could do any other kind of spice rub.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:23 AM
But nothing wrong with boiling first, or a couple of minutes in the mike even better, as not leaching flavor out of the meat.
If it's all the same to you, I'd rather we skip that step. It gets messy.
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:23 AM
Saffron yoghurt marinade!
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:23 AM
7, 9: Dicks. I wanted to say it, and seem cultured.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:24 AM
Many moons ago, IIRC, somebody was prosecuted in England for throwing a live prawn on a grill, and I think the judges decided that the animal's nervous system was too rudimentary for it to count as cruelty. Tried to google, failed dismally. The case was used in an Ethics exam at Oxford.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:24 AM
somebody was prosecuted in England for throwing a live prawn on a grill
Clearly the same country where they build little underpasses so toads can cross streets without getting run over.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:26 AM
13 gets it exactly right.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:29 AM
What about feral cats? Okay to throw them live on the grill?
Posted by Urple | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:30 AM
Last night was the first in 6 days I didn't barbecue dinner, trying to crowd as much of what we'll be eating onto the grill.
The smell of smoke in my hair, hours later, is tolerated under the circumstances.
Posted by i don't pay | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:30 AM
IDP, you better still be doing that when I get back from Europe.
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:32 AM
Deal
Posted by i don't pay | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:33 AM
7 was my first reaction as well. That or (the fake, but sometimes delicious) chicken tikka masala.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:33 AM
Tell me about it. My brother in law was once an hour and a half late for dinner because he'd stopped to carry a bunch of toads across a busy road.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:33 AM
22 -> 15
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:34 AM
yoghurt
Murgh
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:35 AM
Yogurt + chicken? That's so wrong.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:35 AM
dinner s/b "the booby hatch"
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:36 AM
Chicken tikka masala is sometimes barely above mediocre, sometimes orgasmically good. It's an odd dish.
As I understand it, the dish was invented when some English dude, eating tandoori chicken, was like "My, but this chicken is marvelous, but it needs some gravy."
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:36 AM
I think it was when some English dude, probably called Arif or Mohammed, said, "What do we do with all this tandoori chicen we haven't sold tonight?"
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:39 AM
What sort of yogurt did you use,LB? I'm imagining plain, but also giggling at the possibility of banana-razza-strawberry marinated chicken.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:41 AM
And no one thought about delivering it to the feral cat shelter next door.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:41 AM
Wiki claims it was invented in the UK by Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi immigrants. Or what OFE said.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:41 AM
28: Right, an Indian version of Bourdain's disquisition on "Monday Specials" in Kitchen Confidential
Posted by i don't pay | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:42 AM
29: Plain, and low or non-fat doesn't seem to make any difference. The key is the acid in the yogurt, not the fat.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:47 AM
The acid probably works like a tenderizer, chewing up all the tough bits. I wish I had a grill. I really miss that about summers; it's too hot to cook in the kitchen, so a lot of dinners seem to involve rationalizing that ice cream should really count as a dinner as it has protein.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:51 AM
34: yes, it's like that acid way of "cooking" fish. I forget the name. My son's science project this past year was on that. He used all kinds of household acids, varying the ph. He's a kitchen scientist, that boy; Ferran Adria or Alton Brown, here we come.
Posted by i don't pay | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:55 AM
so a lot of dinners seem to involve rationalizing that ice cream should really count as a dinner as it has protein.
You're suggesting it shouldn't?
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:56 AM
35: Ceviche, or if you're Samoan, oka oka. Mmm.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:00 AM
Somebody must, simply must mix ceviche and lutefisk to see what happens. Fish volcano?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:05 AM
That would be a great variation on a third-grade science project volcano.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:11 AM
Somebody once recommended to me a book about the chemistry of cooking, but I've forgotten the name. Is it on the tip of anybody's tongue?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:14 AM
Say again, JM? I couldn't hear you over the FISHPLOSION.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:18 AM
JM, is it this book? I bought it for the boyfriend a while back (he'd mentioned it at one point), and he was thrilled.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:33 AM
40: A couple recent-ish popular ones are How to Read a French Fry and two volumes of What Einstein Told His Cook. Also Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking, less popular but more useful.
Posted by ettinauer | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:35 AM
Thank God the FISHPLOSION shrapnel and noise have dissipated.
I think the one that had been casually recommended to me was the snappily titled What Einstein Told His Cook, but I'm going to check out the McGee book first. Thanks, guys.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:43 AM
I'm looking at recipes for ceviche and I can't shake the feeling: is it really okay to eat?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:49 AM
Are you kidding? Ceviche is fucking delicious.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:50 AM
Sushi is. You want good, reliable fish that you trust, admittedly. (and I think the acid does kill some of the same stuff cooking would.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:51 AM
I like sushi. Mmm, fish. So I guess this isn't stranger, except for the searing in lime juice bit.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:54 AM
And it's not very sushi-like -- the acid really does 'cook' it.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 9:57 AM
Ceviche is perfect summer food. The fish doesn't have to be scallops; I often use whatever is passing for snapper.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 10:07 AM
My brother in law was once an hour and a half late for dinner because he'd stopped to carry a bunch of toads across a busy road.
And people bought that?
If I ever stop showing up here, it'll be because I couldn't think of any other excuses tried that one on my wife.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 10:25 AM
You can do the acid marinade thing by mixing olive oil, lime juice and crushed garlic. THen marinade the chicken in that.
For extra niceness, add a few chopped chillis to the marinade.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 10:36 AM
What best to thin the yogurt with? I can think offhand of lemon or lime juice, vinegar, wine, milk, or tamari to make the yogurt more of a marinade consistency. Or are you using it straight? (All of lemon/lime juice, vinegar, and tamari are more strongly acidic than yogurt, I think; it can't just be the acid since acidity is a pretty common property of marinades. Also: what if we marinated the chicken in brewer's yeast until it fermented? Then we would have a chicken-based alcoholic beverage. (I suppose we would need to add some kind of sugar to the mixture for the yeast properly to thrive.) The world has been without liquid fowl for too long! says I.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 12:16 PM
)
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 12:19 PM
53: Your liquid foul sounds like a foul liquid, says I.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 12:32 PM
LB is right about yoghurt. Here's the marinade I used July 4th in making kebabs of boneless chicken breasts for the grill:
lowfat plain yoghurt
lime juice (not much)
chopped cilantro
ground coriander seeds (a fair amount of that)
I put it in that for about 4 hours. Also made lamb kebabs marinated in white wine, olive oil, white wine vinegar, pepper, and fresh mint, and vegatable kebabs, too.
Posted by TomF | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 12:36 PM
53: No thinning -- just dump chicken pieces and yougurt into a bowl, and turn to cover. Not that all of the other things you mention mightn't add something, but they aren't necessary.
And TomF's recipe sounds good.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 1:11 PM
You can do the same marinade to bake. Add blackberries to the yoghurt, mash up. Add whole berries, toss in the chicken. Let it hold a good long while- it'll dye the chicken flesh a little purple. Bake as usual, it is really excellent.
Posted by TJ | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 2:47 PM
40: You're probably thinking of something by Harold McGee (both On Food and Cooking and The Curious Cook are great).
On the question of yogurt's efficacy: It's probably not just the acid. The yogurt almost certainly has salt in it, and so in effect you're brining the chicken before grilling it, which is always a good thing to do. (Check out the recipes in the recent grilling issue of Cook's Illustrated--they all recommend brining.)
The acid is probably tenderizing the meat a little, but over the course of a couple of hours it's not going to penetrate too far into the chicken (unlike the salt, which is handled much more efficiently by osmotic action).
Posted by bza | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 3:07 PM
I need a ceviche recipe. And to get some fish.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 3:08 PM
Some possibilities.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 3:15 PM
My basic - very basic - ceviche goes like so: Using a glass bowl, cover the scallops or snapper pieces with lime juice. Cover and refrigerate overnight, tossing once or twice. Next day, drain the fish, and add slivered red peppers and chilis, chunks of avocado (toss these with lemon or lime juice first), chopped cilantro, and maybe celery for crunch.
This and gazpacho are two dishes I make constantly during summer.
Posted by Goofyfoot | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 5:04 PM
Do the scallops have to be fresh to be cevichefied, or can I use thawed frozen ones?
Also, does anyone here have any experience with grilling pizzas? I saw a recipe today and now I'm in love with the idea.
Posted by sw | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:09 PM
Clearly the same country where they build little underpasses so toads can cross streets without getting run over.
Dude, they did that in Davis, California too.
Posted by Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 8:11 PM
Note that the procedure suggested in the post is not compatible with all religions.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 10:55 PM
Depending on level of observance, of course.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 10:55 PM
63:
Defrost the fish in question slowly, then ceviche away.
I forgot the thinly slivered red onion for my recipe above.
Posted by Goofyfoot | Link to this comment | 07- 7-06 10:56 PM
55: 1st instance of "foul" s/b "fowl", of course
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:41 AM
You can do the acid marinade thing by mixing olive oil, lime juice and crushed garlic. THen marinade the chicken in that.
A marinade is a thing in which one marinates another thing.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:10 AM
Whereas a marinate is a seaborn creature.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:10 AM
Dude. I've missed like the last three food threads. Stupid vacation.
Also good: marinate a whole turkey breast in greek-style yogurt with curry spices of your choice and garlic. Grill slowly over a wood fire until cooked through and very tender. Pull turkey as for pulled pork. Serve in pitas with a cucumber yogurt sauce (like tadziki), onions, cucumbers, and tomatos.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 07- 9-06 5:08 PM