Wow, that's like a beer commercial or something- starts with a catfight and ends up with two women making out in public (since you eventually became friends- although not friends like that...)
I'd view it as a sign of character strength, actually. I suspect many people, having decided that they disliked someone on the basis of a first impression, would continue to dislike them rather than allow that impression to be revised.
Does it work the other way as well? If you really have bad judgment, I'd imagine you'd discover people you thought you liked were actually douchebags pretty often as well.
13 - I was trying to think of instances of the reverse but there aren't any that leap to mind. I don't know if it's really that my errors in judgement only go in one direction or if it's that people I thought I liked that end up being disappointing don't make as big of an impression.
15: It could be that you are just sort of a nice person, and likely to get along with even the most trying personalities. Does everyone initially hate the people you initially hate, and, if so, does that hatred persist?
16 - Hmmm...interesting. All of the people I had in mind in the original post are (1) female and (2) women that were considered a bitch by a lot of (but not all) other people. They also tended to be the types of girls who get along better with guys than other women (much like me).
I don't think I'm a douchebag, but I have sort of been on the receiving end of that situation twice in my life.
Where you find out that someone you've thought of as a friend for years, who in fact has given every public semblance of friendship turns out, never to have liked you. Or at least, has been hatin' on you for a while.
Well, there's an easy way to resolve this. Becks should gather together a group of her friends, and an equal number of paid* volunteers. Then we'll have all the other commenters speed-meet (2.5
min./person) the group of Becks' friends + volunteers and write down who we hate.
*If we use non-paid volunteers we get a non-random sample of niceness.
21: I used to be like that, and I'm not any more. Which I'm really quite proud of.
I think the reason a lot of feminists are like that is because men have a higher social status, and we're mostly pretty aspirational. It is simply true that on average the things guys get to be interested in are more inherently interesting than the designated girl subjects.
I also think that it's sometimes because guys, not having to bear the constant burden of sexism, are often more relaxed about shit. It's like the stereotype of the easygoing guy who's married to a tightly wound woman; he's nicer to hang out with. The fact that his easygoingness maybe depends on/contributes to her tightly woundness might be something you recognize, but it doesn't necessarily change the fact that he's more relaxing company.
Until, of course, the very minor sexisms that you have to swallow in order to pretend to be a member of the privileged class reach a kind of tipping point, and then you become one of the tightly wound women. But I really think that for most of us, that takes a long time to realize. At least, it did for me.
Although actually, I think part of it is also that the things we're hardest on in ourselves are the things we're least tolerant of in others. If, then, one feels annoyed at oneself for occasional stupidities like worrying about one's weight or whether a particular outfit is dorky or any other "girlish" thing (which I bet every single one of us does from time to time) (these are just examples), then it makes sense one would abhor it when other women do that.
I just threw up a post about this, saying that to the extent I was more comfortable with men, it was largely because I felt rejected by women for insufficient girlyness, and that it's mostly resolved itself as I've gotten older. Thanks for pointing out AWB's post, IDP.
28: 27 is the punchline to an old and dumb joke aimed at collegiate feminists. Which means I'm an asshole either for repeating an assholish joke or for trying to meta-joke your meta-joke and failing dismally. Oh well. I should have known better than to get out of bed on a Monday anyway.
Since you apparently read TWoP synopses of "America's Next Top Model," I'm going with bad judgment.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:21 PM
Quiet, you. That episode is LEGENDARY.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:27 PM
Wow, that's like a beer commercial or something- starts with a catfight and ends up with two women making out in public (since you eventually became friends- although not friends like that...)
Posted by SP | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:32 PM
(since you eventually became friends- although not friends like that...)
Aaah, but the night is young!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:35 PM
Actually, we did end up making out in public (Mardi Gras '98).
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:39 PM
(raises hands in the air)
Hooray!
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:41 PM
5: Yeah, I think it's on Girls Gone Wild 26 or 27.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:41 PM
Which one, 26 or 27? I need to know...
Posted by SP | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:44 PM
Any chance BFFC is going to be at the next Unfogged meetup? Please, please say, "Yes."
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:46 PM
Given that you seem to have liked Unfogged from the start, this doesn't bode well for the future.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:53 PM
I'd view it as a sign of character strength, actually. I suspect many people, having decided that they disliked someone on the basis of a first impression, would continue to dislike them rather than allow that impression to be revised.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 2:53 PM
BECKS STOLE MY POST!
(We can make out at the next meet-up now.)
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:00 PM
Does it work the other way as well? If you really have bad judgment, I'd imagine you'd discover people you thought you liked were actually douchebags pretty often as well.
Posted by Sommer | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:05 PM
Well, she was just trying to be nice to some people around here by not saying anything...
Posted by SP | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:10 PM
13 - I was trying to think of instances of the reverse but there aren't any that leap to mind. I don't know if it's really that my errors in judgement only go in one direction or if it's that people I thought I liked that end up being disappointing don't make as big of an impression.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:12 PM
15: It could be that you are just sort of a nice person, and likely to get along with even the most trying personalities. Does everyone initially hate the people you initially hate, and, if so, does that hatred persist?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:16 PM
16 - Hmmm...interesting. All of the people I had in mind in the original post are (1) female and (2) women that were considered a bitch by a lot of (but not all) other people. They also tended to be the types of girls who get along better with guys than other women (much like me).
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:25 PM
Well, there you go, then.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:28 PM
re: 13
I don't think I'm a douchebag, but I have sort of been on the receiving end of that situation twice in my life.
Where you find out that someone you've thought of as a friend for years, who in fact has given every public semblance of friendship turns out, never to have liked you. Or at least, has been hatin' on you for a while.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:38 PM
8: Is it so hard to watch both?
Well, there's an easy way to resolve this. Becks should gather together a group of her friends, and an equal number of paid* volunteers. Then we'll have all the other commenters speed-meet (2.5
min./person) the group of Becks' friends + volunteers and write down who we hate.
*If we use non-paid volunteers we get a non-random sample of niceness.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:40 PM
types of girls who get along better with guys than other women
I am like this, and I really hate this about myself. Why am I such a misogynist?
Posted by silvana | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:45 PM
types of girls who get along better with guys than other women
AWB's thread today is about this very issue, and she uses the word, too.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:48 PM
21: I used to be like that, and I'm not any more. Which I'm really quite proud of.
I think the reason a lot of feminists are like that is because men have a higher social status, and we're mostly pretty aspirational. It is simply true that on average the things guys get to be interested in are more inherently interesting than the designated girl subjects.
I also think that it's sometimes because guys, not having to bear the constant burden of sexism, are often more relaxed about shit. It's like the stereotype of the easygoing guy who's married to a tightly wound woman; he's nicer to hang out with. The fact that his easygoingness maybe depends on/contributes to her tightly woundness might be something you recognize, but it doesn't necessarily change the fact that he's more relaxing company.
Until, of course, the very minor sexisms that you have to swallow in order to pretend to be a member of the privileged class reach a kind of tipping point, and then you become one of the tightly wound women. But I really think that for most of us, that takes a long time to realize. At least, it did for me.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 3:53 PM
Although actually, I think part of it is also that the things we're hardest on in ourselves are the things we're least tolerant of in others. If, then, one feels annoyed at oneself for occasional stupidities like worrying about one's weight or whether a particular outfit is dorky or any other "girlish" thing (which I bet every single one of us does from time to time) (these are just examples), then it makes sense one would abhor it when other women do that.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 4:13 PM
I just threw up a post about this, saying that to the extent I was more comfortable with men, it was largely because I felt rejected by women for insufficient girlyness, and that it's mostly resolved itself as I've gotten older. Thanks for pointing out AWB's post, IDP.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 4:18 PM
Well someone's obligated to say this, so I guess I'll go ahead and do it: I really think you girls are reading too much into it all.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 4:26 PM
26: It's "women," and that's not funny!
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 4:51 PM
27: I know it's not funny. Obligatory jokes never are.
Except on a meta level.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 5:04 PM
28: 27 is the punchline to an old and dumb joke aimed at collegiate feminists. Which means I'm an asshole either for repeating an assholish joke or for trying to meta-joke your meta-joke and failing dismally. Oh well. I should have known better than to get out of bed on a Monday anyway.
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 5:57 PM
I got 27, and in 28 was trying to take the meta one step beyond!
In truth, comments 28, 29 and this one should have been posted at Standpipe's blog instead.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 6:07 PM
I think this is the bit where I quit while I'm behind and go find some coffee. Fucking Mondays.
Posted by DaveL | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 6:09 PM
Yeah, Monday totally fucks clowns.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 6:17 PM
On the other hand, the Mondays pwn.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 6:20 PM
1,2: The lovely and talented Potes, who writes the recaps for ANTM at TWoP, is my band-mate and songwriting partner.
Posted by mrh | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 6:27 PM
Wow, seriously? That's awesome.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 07-24-06 7:09 PM