Why bother being genuinely creepy and completely unamusing when there's so much good material to work with?
She's an unamusing creep? 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' only works if you have very low standards for friends -- just because she thinks Goldstein's a jerk doesn't mean she's not a worse jerk herself.
But this seems to have resolved itself nicely -- she said some stuff which should be absolutely unacceptable, and the resulting outrage has caused her to resign from her job.
Were you familiar with her before? This is the first thing I've seen about her.
Can't parse...too many negations...send help. What I meant was that there are plenty of funny things to say about Goldstein without involving his child, making (what sound like) threats, and so on. The ridicule writes itself, as RM's post demonstrates.
It is sort of funny that everyone is shocked-- shocked!-- that someone would say this to Jeff "I want to slap your face with my cock" Goldstein.
What she wrote is indeed in poor taste and over the line, but I find it very hard to believe, given the standards of civility to which Jeff Goldstein normally holds himself (my COCK is BIG and SLAPS YOU and RAPES YOU IN THE FACE!!!), that seriously he found her writing threatening.
Glad she resigned because she was out of line; but I don't like the witchhunt mentality and the chortling. Woohoo, you knocked off a foul-mouthed adjunct. Big boysies you are. (And wasn't this beyond the pale with P/aul De/ignan?)
Of course, (3) is not a defense of what she said, or what Malkin claims she said. LB, I'm confused as to what you thought was Frisch-exculpatory in the post.
Assuming the quotes are accurate, she was way, way over the line -- I can't say that, given the demographics of it all, that I'd call what she said scary threats, but they were implied sexual threats against a small child. Really not comparable to He Who Shall Not Be Named, who before he started suing was just irritating.
Cala, is it wrong that I keep laughing at "rapes you in the face"?
You're right that the chortling is annoying; even more annoying is that she's now become the true face of the academy and of leftishness and of etc.
All of this is making me curious. Is she a freakity freak? Or was she just pretty drunk and talking shite on the internet one night? I find moments of bad judgment that derail (decisionmakers') lives to be poignant. It's just an added layer of irony that her academic work is on...decisionmaking.
5: Didn't think you were excusing her -- I just meant to say that there's no need for a special explanation for bad behavior. People, regardless of affiliation, just behave badly.
Probably, FL, but you only find it funny 'cause you're a liberal wienie.
LB, I'm not condoning it; I'm just finding the hand-wringing to be overly theatrical, much as I would if someone that Goldstein was making rape threats when he said he's slap people with his COCK! his BIG COCK!
And the guy writing in that 'huzzah, we've cured the academy of leftists! ha, ha!' just really needs to get the fuck over himself. She's a jerk because she's a jerk, not because she's politically liberal. She may not even be fired, especially as her department chair is waiting till Monday, which I'm taking as code for 'It'll probably blow over by then.'
This raises the even more fundamental question of why anyone would want to begin wading in this cesspool in the first place.
Amen to that. Goldstein's a lot funnier when I only hear about him second- and third-hand. I try to avoid drug-addled bloggers with persecution complexes like street-corner shouters (the drug-addled part is fine, actually; but persecution complexes are dull). When Jeff starts carrying out his cock-slapping threats, then maybe I'll start reading him.
I've never heard of Frisch before, but anyone who gets that invested in Goldstein sounds a little toolish, too.
Idunno, sometimes explanations of bad behavior are interesting. Now, in your next comment, accuse me of being an explanationist appeasionist defeatist capitulationist* for wanting to offer our enemies therapy, and we'll be off and running with an internal feud.
*Malkin really did use this word recently, teehee.
Eh, Goldstein initially backed D/gnan, then made a half-assed attempt to superficially "distance" him from D's lawsuit threats while nonetheless feeling quite free to imply that I was, if not quite worthy of being sued, certainly typical of everything that's wrong with the left. I didn't see him getting too hung up on how crappy it was of D/gnan to threaten me, which I admit makes it pretty hard for me to care about how crappy it is for someone to threaten him.
The puzzling part of this is that ridiculing Goldstein isn't hard at all.
I was thinking, yeah. Why would she ridicule him? I mean, he's been in some really bad movies, but The Fly was pretty damn good. I mean, really why would anybody care anyways?
Oops. So who's Jeff Goldstein?
This raises the even more fundamental question of why anyone would want to begin wading in this cesspool in the first place.
Cala: no, she meant it. Malkin was referring to either the president of UC Santa Cruz or someone higher up, for giving in to anti-war protesters or something.
B,PhD: heh-indeedy, but still, that kid-oriented stuff gave me the willies.
Tim: point taken. I've been sort of double-standardy on this, I admit.
SCMTim, I don't think we've tried to get anyone fired for their politics. (I say for her politics because had she been just a random troll on that blog, I don't imagine it would have gone anywhere.)
While Frisch is out of line, I'm disliking the implied 'and we'll get the libruls out of education entirely because you're all like this!' Call me paranoid, but I'm not exactly comfortable being a wannabe female academic because apparently it's like painting a target on my ass.
The funny thing about flaps like this is that they always seem to be about people I've never heard of. Who the hell was Ward Churchill before he wrote that 9-11 piece? Who's Frisch? I mean, maybe she has a readership that I don't know about, but not all that much of one.
Also, wait. Wasn't part of Goldstein's defense of D/gnan that it was really crappy of H/ttle to put D/gnan's job at risk because of what was just a silly internet dust up?
No, she's representative of all academics. She must be, because she's an adjunct at a state school.
Also, the academy is so far left that divinity schools at top universities exist in careful maintained space-time anomalies powered by conservative students running in hamsters wheels, being flogged all the while by the women's studies department.
Which is where that double-standard thing comes in. I may still be being double-standardy, but the impression I have of our pile-ons is "Look at the genuinely influential person on the right being horrible -- righties all suck because they admire and respect horrible people!" Their pile-ons look to me more like "Look at this horrible person on the left -- lefties all suck because I can dig up horrible people who agree with them!"
Now *I'm* getting hassled via email by the flying-monkey wingnut army. Because of what?
Because after telling Deb unconditionally that what she did was WRONG and STUPID and that from afar it looks like MENTAL ILLNESS, that EVEN SO, she shouldn't lose her job?
It seems like the wingnuts feel that anything short of my issuing an all out FATWEH against this person makes me a child-rapist.
I can remember the Iranians issuing a fatweh against Salman Rushdie for writing something they didn't like. You wingnuts are in their league.
You are also indeed hypocritical. Coming off celebratory attacks including home addresses, phone numbers and contact information against MOONBATS like NYTimes editors and photographers, LIBERAL TEACHERS AND PROFESSORS, antiwar UC Santa Cruz students, the PARK RANGERS and DESIGN FIRM responsible for the United Flight 93 memorial, you have a lot of balls pretending that Deb is the only one who has ever crossed the line in terms of nasty blogosphere rhetoric.
Yeah, threatening people's kids is fucking gross. Guess what? It happens all the time. As do rape threats and threats of sexual violence, by the way. You can't take every asshole troll seriously.
18: I wasn't really thinking about her getting fired (or resigning, etc.); I was thinking about laughing at her for getting fired. Not nice, but I certainly have laughed when bad things have happened to (those I perceive to be) bad people.
A very good question why a person would hang out in that cesspool long after noticing its cesspool nature.
There was a post where Jeff said he'd like to keep me in his zoo as his token moonbat. I gladly agreed. I really loved the idea that I could evolve from troll to pet moonbat so easily. Usually I get banned.
It all seemed to be going well, but then Jeff seemed to lose interest in me as a zoo member and all there was was sexual, disgusting comments from the pee nut gallery who were luvving tinkling on my ankle.
I tried to take it like an hombre, but it really got under my skin.
I should have left at that point, but somehow, I got on Jeff's radar again and I decided to chitchat with him from 8-9 one night (I can't figure out what night it was - it would be easy if protein wisdom was up, but it's not.)
That's when it escalated to me wanting to give him a taste of his own medicine. If I retaliated in kind (made disgusting comments about his private parts), it would have just turned on all the vermin in the right wing pee nut gallery. By telling Jeff that I would not be upset if harm came to his two year old, I was trying to create in him the feeling I had from all the sexual comments.
I am thinking he grokked the message.
I'm sorry for playing the kid card - honorable warriors do not go there and i will not do it again. i have learned my lesson. But I only played the kid card because it seemed like my only move other than letting the pee nut gallery get away with tinkling on my ankle.
Next time, I'll leave before getting to this point.
Sure will be interesting if and when protein wisdom ever gets up and running again.
Methinks Jeff took the site offline himself - it sure is convenient for him to be the only one with the raw data. I think. Can someone really knock out your site for DAYS?!?
23: Yeah, it looks like the left says "that is not okay" when a leftie acts like an asshole, and the right either backs rightie assholes or just ignores them. But I haven't seen too many of these left/right bullshit dustups where the right has actually *condemened* their trolls.
Lest it appear that I'm a hypocrite, what this woman did is clearly stupid and obnoxious. I don't know whether she "deserved" to lose her job over it, but it is certainly to be expected. I just don't think that the "outrage" by Malkin and Goldstein's usual troop of monkeys is evidence of anything but their using small assholery as an excuse to perpetuate their much bigger assholery.
Speaking of threats, didn't Malkin publish some college student's address and contact info on her site and refuse to take it down even when they were predictably threatened by her readers? She's got no fucking call to get on her moral high horse over this one.
Someone can knock out someone's site for days, but it's probably pretty unlikely that it was the liberal horde designed for that purpose. For one, this scandal only started to get publicity recently, and his server's been down for days. For two, the liberal horde switches off hamster-wheel duty with the women's studies department. They've got an alibi.
Now *I'm* getting hassled via email by the flying-monkey wingnut army.
Me too, LB. Of course in my case what these rubes don't realize is that this will likely only provoke me into visiting the paste eater's site and really whipping up the rubes into a homocidal frenzy.
"Prof." Frisch apparently received my comment suggesting she remove the Ed Abbey epigram from her blog in that what she posted at PW would not appear to have been what Cactus Ed had in mind when he said those words...
...and she closed the thread.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
Now she's posted another thread telling everyone, in essence, to F-off. I wrote this and sent it when the comment count was still zero.
I guess I might have the "honor" of making the first post on this thread, which seems fitting in that you haven't seen fit to post my comments about your misuse of the Ed Abbey epigram on the other.
Nobody's stalking you, ma'am.
Like my grandmother used to say-
"Roll with the pigs...get sh-t on your shoes."
Sh-t's on more than your shoes, perfessor.
D. Edgren
Want to bet that doesn't make it through her defense shields either?
So which is it, Prof? Are you really apologizing to Mr. Goldstein, or simply further "entertaining" your friends?
What a bunch of idiots. (I am now, even though I'm still thinking I was right, feeling bad about that irate post I made about Reynolds the other week. At least I've never sent anyone a nasty email who wasn't a close personal friend.)
25 - is why I now make it a point to try and keep a low profile online and participate in blogs anonymously. My own blog (which is basically now collecting dust) has become more benign and technical. I never talk too much about my kids and certainly do not post pictures. A creepy ex-coworker (with mental problems) from several years back emailed me out of the blue a couple years ago and in the email mentioned to me that we had "cute kids" (he had found some pictures posted on a relative's site; needless to say, I made them pull them down asap!). He emailed me a couple more times asking me to be a reference for a job (even though I know he got arrested for sabotaging our ex-employer's computer system). Since I tend to be cautious to begin with, events like this spook me.
There was a post where Jeff said he'd like to keep me in his zoo as his token moonbat. I gladly agreed. I really loved the idea that I could evolve from troll to pet moonbat so easily.
Oh, God, oh, God, oh, God ... why am I thinking of furries?
Actually Deb's got a point. The "she's threatening his child!!" thing is rich coming from a site where people seem to think sexual harassment is hilarious.
Dont miss the point, this is not about Goldstein. Nothing he says deserves the comments made by this nutjob nor the DOS attacks he is suffering. Its clear these are linked. If we want to be credible, we must admit this.
We made a lemon poppyseed cake for the 4th. It didn't come out quite right, but was still tasty enough. There's some left over still. I'm not much of a cake person.
Ooh! We're making lunch orders? Once again, I would like a delicious ham and spinach crepe with a nice pilsner and a good salad. For dessert, I think, some creme brulee and, since it's the weekend, a nice glass of some kind of sweet white wine?
Puhleeze. Jeff's site is probably down because the server overloaded after all the bedwetters rushed to comfort the poor boy following his frightening ordeal with a schoolteacher.
Or, you know, coincidence. One of our recent bouts of server outage coincided with some inter-blog spat (although I can't remember what it was), and I remember being moderately worried that people would think they were connected.
45: I did. I learned after that first semester not to wear jeans; it helps to hit an Ann Taylor sale (or something similar) and buy grown-up looking separates. That said, my recommendation is to start out the first day going over the syllabus, laying down the law, and saying very firmly that you do not accept late assignments under any circumstances (you can always make "exceptions" during the semester, but don't tell them that). It helps enormously to have a lecture prepared for the first day: finish going over the syllabus, then say, "take out your notebooks" and start lecturing. Make sure there's a reading assignment that they have to do before the next class.
Then, as the semester goes on, you relax. Pause frequently to ask if anyone has any questions, say earnest things like, "I really want to make sure you're getting it, so if I need to clarify something, please tell me," praise folks who ask questions for being "brave enough to ask a question I'm sure lots of people have," and so on.
Basically, if you're friendly at the outset, they will walk all over you, but if you're scary all the way through the semester, they'll hate you. So I usually start with scary and become friendlier after the first couple of weeks.
Earlier today I was contemplating a drive to north central MA partly on the basis ofthis recommendation to add chive covered goat cheese to an omelet. I would have bought a lot of cheese; it's a topic on which I am quite suggestible.
53 - then say, "take out your notebooks" and start lecturing
Was it just me or is there an inverse relationship between amount of notes taken and performance? When I finally realized I didn't have to frantically try to write everything down just because everybody around me was recording everything word-for-word (because that's what you're supposed to do!?) and I actually started to listen and actively think along with what the professor was doing instead, the amount of notes I took dropped down to barely any and my grades improved by about 150% !
I've never successfully figured out how to take notes and listen at the same time, so I've always just listened. Never seemed to do me any harm academically.
I am a horrible note-taker. It is alleged to be a Strategy For Success, but woe to the person who asks to borrow my notes* as they tend to be more my responses to the seminar/lecture than what the professor is saying. Also, in college I once took biology notes in German. I was bored.
*unless it's a class I'm TAing. I tend to take those notes down verbatim because I need to know what the prof said because the students will find one little thing and get hung up on it.
Cala - "...this scandal only started to get publicity recently, and his server's been down for days."
what does this suggest to you about the proximity of the perpetrator to the crime?"
57--for most classes, particularly upper-division ones, yes, though a few classes are pretty note-taking intensive. Science classes, for example, at least the lower-level ones I took. I also had a poli-sci professor who spoke in what was essentially outline form (he wasn't actually reading an outline or anything--his own notes were pretty spare, it was just his way of talking), it was useful (and easy) to take detailed notes in that class.
Back to the post, Instapundit can't write clearly to save his life. Check this out:
JEFF GOLDSTEIN'S SITE is still under DOS attack. Background is here.
I encourage people not to be too positive about the perpetrator's identity until there's some sort of outside confirmation.
UPDATE: Here's a blog post with an apology. The domain shows as registered to the right person, in Tucson Arizona. Nonetheless, on the Internet you can't be entirely sure about identities, something that's worth remembering.
Wouldn't you read that as an assertion that the linked apology was an admission of responsibility for the DOS attack? You'd be wrong if you did.
58-60 - I don't ever being taught how to do it effectively. Perhaps nowadays incoming college students are better informed as to how to take them advantageously without getting in the way of listening/understanding. All I know is I naively thought you're supposed to write everything down the professor writes on the board verbatim - because that's what everybody else was doing - and it seriously interfered with my ability to focus on the bigger picture when all you're worried about was what word they just scribbed down on the board too fast.
62: See, in most of the classes I took, science and humanities, all of the actual information is somewhere in a text that you have. Notes always seemed like a pointless attempt to recreate a textbook. If you listen with attention, you can remember the high points, and return to the text for the details. (I do recognize that this doesn't work for many people.)
Oh goody, it's the frothing ad hominems = dissent meme. This definitely calls for more than just a damn crepe. I require a dozen fresh croissants and half a dozen eclairs.
My grades were intimately connected to the quality of my notes. They reflected the professor's emphasis, and therefore what I should be paying attention to in the otherwise overly large text, or set of texts.
The point of the introductory lecture isn't to make them learn much. It's to scare them. You end up having to repeat everything anyway, since on the first day people are still shopping, but it gives you an excuse to say to the folks who show up on the second day that "they've already missed the first lecture and are behind on the reading assignment, however, if they really think they can keep up with the class, you're willing to put them on the waiting list."
Nice professor can tell them how to take good notes later in the semester, if you like.
A lot of professors use lectures to supplement the text(s), though, so it does pay to take notes in those classes. Of course, you have to have already done the reading to know what's new and what isn't.
TD is of course right that trying to write down verbatim everything the professor says is madness; you have to focus on the important things. I tend to write down everything professors write on the board, but mine tend to not write much on the board, so that may be too much for other people. I actually take very bad notes; I always decide not to write some things down because I'm sure I'll remember them, but I never do.
67--I assume this isn't universal, but for those intro classes that are fact-heavy (so to speak) I found that my professors explained things better than the textbook did. A lot of this is becasue I can't stand just reading textbooks most of the time--I'll come across something that I don't quite understand, and my inability to ask the book a question (try as I might) is frustrating. By the time the next class rolled around, I'd forget what my question was. I'm impatient--I want my questions answered NOW, dammit.
Yeah, I remember what I write too. Plus I see no point in lecturing on material that they have in text form, and if I am lecturing on something that exists in text form ("this lecture summarizes Bakhtin's theory of the novel, which I'm not requiring you to read") I tell them where to get it if they actually want to have more than a thumbnail sketch.
Yeah, this introductory lecture is kind of a bitch. I'm fine once I have an argument to kick around, but this overview shit sucks because I feel like I'm being very vague. I suppose they don't know that, though.
Exactly! They don't know anything, and all you can really do on the first day is a broad vague sketch anyway. Mostly the first day is about passing out the syllabus and performing an implied set of expectations that This Is Going To Be A Very Demanding Course.
Oh, I didn't mean to say that lectures were useless, just that I generally found that my memory was well enough jogged by the text to get back everything important in the lecture. And this works for me because (a) I've got a very, very good memory for explanations -- if I've got some prompting with specifics I can always get back the shape of an argument and (b) I'm a horrible note-taker -- I find the process of taking notes distracting and the end product pretty useless.
I haven't attended many lectures in years as all my grad school education has been in the form of seminars or one-to-one tutorials.
However, I usually found the best thing was when lecturers handed out outlines in advance. That way I could scribble my responses, comments, immediate impressions, and so on, on the pre-prepared class notes.*
The verbatim note scribbling thing I did for most of my first year as an undergraduate which was a total waste of time.
* As an aside, I had one lecturer as an undergraduate who gave very detailed lecture notes which seemed tailor made for exam revision. The bastard then spent 3 weeks of a 10 week introduction to Hume class going on about the missing shade of blue accompanied by copious and detailed lecture notes.
Then, we discovered, when the final exam came round, that he'd chosen *not* to set any questions on it and instead the vast bulk of the questions were on topics that were relegated to parenthetical asides in the lectures and lecture notes.
#48 You are one CRAZY Canuck. I should add hypocritical and some other choice words too. The vitriol on your site is amazing. The prof was WAY out of line and her defense of it is pathetic.
I found that my professors explained things better than the textbook did. A lot of this is becasue I can't stand just reading textbooks most of the time
For me, these were the keys. In a good class, I could cut down the amount of work needed to be done if my professor pointed out what I should (because he did) actually care about. But this is all very idiosyncratic, and by the time you've hit college (and esp. graduate school) , most people have sorted out some system that works for them.
Nice professor can tell them how to take good notes later in the semester, if you like.
I certainly wasn't suggesting it's a professor's duty to tell their students how to take notes; I just find it odd that the topic is such an "unspoken thing that nobody ever talks about" other than to say "taking notes are important". Yeah, but what kind of notes and how many and in what way?
Of course, you have to have already done the reading to know what's new and what isn't.
Yes, this was part of the epiphany - I started to read the text before class so I was already somewhat familiar with what was being covered as it was being covered in class. Before that, when all I was doing was dictation, I was under the common belief that you don't have to read the textbooks because the only thing that matters is what the professor is covering and they write on the board all the "important" things. Which also played to another misconception. Just going to class, even if you do nothing, is 10x more fruitful than copying down somebody else's "perfect notes" later.
(I apologize for posting these comments off topic)
My impression here at Oxford is that lectures fall very very far down the heirarchy of teaching methods.
There are undergraduate lectures in all the key philosophy topics but I've never had the impression that the undergraduates attend that many of them. They're going to get an hour of one-on-one time with a tutor every week to go over the topic so it's not so important to them to attend the lecture.
84: s/b ("and esp. graduate school, I assume"). But who knows, esp. with the philospher-types. Wolfson should do an extended post on this, synching his argument to music that no one else has heard of, or to movies he's never seen.
(Are you there, Ben? Where are the pictures of your trip?)
Spectacular job, Deb. Rarely do we get a true picture of what modern-day leftist politics really is. Bitter, mean, nasty, intolerant. The Howard Dean Party. It's also great to see a handful of people attempting to defend the indefensible. Keep on digging that hole, folks.
It's a sorry state of affairs when you're put in the position of having to justify her perverted behavioring by saying, "Yeah, but..."
If I were you, I'd boot her off the island and boldly announce, "She's not one of ours." Instead, you'll all end up having to back her just to make a political point.
Wait and see. She'll be reinvented as a martyr to your cause.
That's true -- I must say that after this last bout I'm feeling better about my Reynolds post. Clearly it would have gotten the same reaction whatever it said.
Do you people think this is the substitute goldstein-blog or what? Bring us mille-feuilles layered with rich butter-cream and drizzled with bitter chocolate, or get the fuck out of here.
I find moments of bad judgment that derail (decisionmakers') lives to be poignant. It's just an added layer of irony that her academic work is on...decisionmaking.
108: I'm sorry we're not being mean enough to you, victim. Would it help if I told you we were all gay American-hating communists who regularly fellate the corpse of Mao Tse-tung inbetween readings from the Townhouse-directed writings of the Lord High Kos?
You know, if there's another NYC meetup we should totally go out for pastry instead of drinking. There's a place on 1st and 11th with Italian pastries that would break your heart.
I must share: an elderly friend of mine is closing up her house and moving to Mexico, and has promised me her box of the complete works of P. G. Wodehouse! Yay! also, someone to visit in Mexico!
112: It hasn't been mentioned before, and I now feel somewhat silly about having claimed never to have heard of her before, given that I have the second comment in one of those threads, pointing out that DF, making the first comment, is wrong.
when i saw the link to this site, i thought it very responsible of frisch's peers to gently pull her out of the fray and begin the process of self-reflection and self-correction nessesary to move beyond this point. instead we are presented with self-justifying hate. the thoughts presented here are as ugly as deborah frisch's threats against jeff goldstein's child, and that is deeply dissapointing on a human level.
her comments, so they might wedge themselves back into this discussion of them, were...
"... as I said elsewhere, if I woke up tomorrow and learned that someone else had shot you and your “tyke” it wouldn’t slow me down one iota. You aren’t “human” to me....So if you could just tell me the AGE and SEX of your “tyke,” I’d be stoked! Thanx!"
...and repitition of the same. this sick and threatening language was followed by a ddos attack against goldstein's website which continues even this hour.
here, where one might have anticipated decency of the larger general community of frisch's supporters, there is instead a tone of, "yea, but we do it for social justice".
for instance, frisch's threats against jeff goldstein's child are equated here with an incident in which a group of militant student anarchists, faces covered and armed with metal barricades, sheilds, helmets and cudgels, organized a physical assault against a pair of military recruiters with the full advance knowlege and non-interferance of the university administration. the anarchist group did not believe that they needed to protect their identities from any repercussions stemming from the assault, so they published a press release. the assumption made by the anarchists who distributed the press release to the mainstream press, was that they need only anticipate advocacy pieces written of their public political act. when a single outside voice, michell malkin, rebuked their actions and published the contents of the press release, with specific instructions to her readership to not use the contact information malliciously, progressives investigated her home address and the personal home addresses of her parents and published them on the internet, accompanied by a campaign of death threats, rape threats and racial slurrs in her inbox and on progressive sites.
so here we see again the progressive left twisted with hatred in reaction to, not persecution, but to critisism of their public political behavior. this sentiment has a glint of totalitarianism in it that i think we should all feel threatened by. particularly as the campaign of hacker-attacks against non-progressive web sites persists.
as the ddos attacks persist, the atmosphere here has moved from a few initial proforma declairations of distaste for the specific wording, if not spirit, of her threats, to a bold defense in which frisch is transposed as the victim of a massive right-wing conspiracy against the movement. one can already identify the nessesary distortions working their way into the narrative where the posters here seem willfully unclear as to whether she was fired due to pressure against the school or whether they should take frisch's word for it that she electively resigned. frisch herself is allowed beat her chest over the ddos attack and suggest that the whole thing is a frame-up without comment...
"Sure will be interesting if and when protein wisdom ever gets up and running again. Methinks Jeff took the site offline himself - it sure is convenient for him to be the only one with the raw data. I think. Can someone really knock out your site for DAYS?!? "
i would suggest that any loss of bandwidth is of marginal value as compared to a sacrifice of the truth or decency. please, if you intend to threaten a mans child with rape and murder, and proceed without apology to rewrite the history of the event so that it redoubles the attack against a wider enemy "other", at least release the website from the ddos attack. you do not need to keep godstien's website as a trophy
And 122: Absolutely. One of my better high-school date memories was being out with R. at V. and having the adult couple at the next table ask what I was eating, because it looked wonderful. I felt terribly cool being able to say "It's not on the menu -- just ask for a lobster tail."
It's a little silly, isn't it, guessing that the DoS attacks are to cover up for Frisch? Most DoS attacks take more than a day to prepare, and, anyway, who has her back? I've not seen any sinister lefties defend what she did. We're not even taking her nonsense Object Lesson defense seriously.
If you can't take our word for it that we don't condone trash talk about two year olds, what's the point of engaging us at all? I don't think much of Jeff, but I took him at his word that he didn't condone the attack on Thersites' kid. Of course, I also fell for his aparently half-hearted condemnation of the aborted bitchphd outing. I don't remember now, why was that half-hearted?
ah, the complete irony, strasmangelo jones, the complete irony. I realize I didn't fill in the blanks but your take on my comment is/was a bit amusing.
I've heard of strawmen, but this is like you're playing your own show of Liberal Puppets in your head:
jummy's right hand: Someone set us up an insult!
jummy's left hand: We support this insult and do declare that we shall defend it.
jummy's right hand: Dear left hand, you are indeed part of the modern left!
jummy's left hand: Oh, I loves me some protestors at UC Santa Cruz! I'm going to send hate mail to a protestor!
jummy's right hand: NOOO left hand STOP! Malkin said we weren't supposed to harass people bad progressive left hand!
whaddya say, Victim? We promise to be meaner to you from now on. But you'll have to wait a few days for the fruit basket--I feel a little burned by the other Trolls Who Didn't Stay.
123: man, take a chill pill. nobody here is defending what's-her-name. Sorry your clubhouse is broken, but why must you punish me? I wasted valuable seconds of my life scanning your comment and deciding not to read it. No waffles. I blame the vast right wing conspiracy.
132: I know, I had hopes for one from the other batch. First he was all cranky and then he started kidding around about cake. But he never came back and I was sad -- I'd hoped for some cake-based bridgebuilding.
87: I'm sure this is true of Oxford (and I've heard it before) but it is very much not true of American universities, which are all about the lectures.
David Bowie once threatened to kill my kids. But did I complain? I heard he never took notes in class and still aced all his exams. Because he's wicked smart, David Bowie is.
The best thing I know about David Bowie is that his real name was David Jones, but he had to change it because the guy from the Monkees was too popular and he was afraid of confusing people.
It's true. David Jones, on the other hand, took copious notes and also did very well in his studies. But he never threatened to kill my children. In that light, my retaliation against David Jones looks to be entirely unfounded.
Jummy is correct. We, The Left, should send JG's poor, wronged child a copy of Mercer Mayer's marvellously illustrated Nightmare in my Closet, which is all about imaginary fears and has the bonus! feature that the child vanquishes the monster by exercising his second-amendment rights. It really is the least we could do, since I'm sure that JG's many fans and supporters are showering the poor, traumatized child with comforting gifts even as we speak.
156: No, it doesn't! And now you're just rubbing my face in it! Rubbing my face in the delicious pastry! Just like all you people on the left always do, with your pie-throwing and your French-loving!
157: I really kind of love that video -- those two dried up evil little homunculi, too old and too rich to care what they look like, just having fun. I'm not up enough on rock history/gossip to know if they're really particularly friends, but the video looks as if they are.
the first movie's plot was airtight in its intricate airtight intricacies, what with the cursed gold and the blood of the curse, and the keira knightley.
Speaking of names. How is it that Johnny Depp gets away with being 40-something and still being called Johnny and still being incredibly hot, rather than risible?
All of your commentary at Protein Wisdom is cached and still available for public viewing, in case you didn't know. You got really sleazy all by yourself with the "Cuntasleaza Rice" epithets and your nasty tyke references and begging - BEGGING - to be banned. You were only trying to top yourself when you went overboard with the sexual insults aimed at the baby.
People at PW made fun of your multiple personalities, and it looks like you could not stand being marginalized. You were trying so damn hard to be gross. They were just not paying you enough attention, and for someone like you, even bad attention is good, eh? (Analyze that, why don't you?) Well, now you've got attention for your depraved comments about a baby - and maybe now you're finally satisfied in your sick little mind.
I'd suggest you stop shoring up your meager defenses with the "poor little ole me" sob story - because it won't wash. All the games you played and the comments you made are all available for public viewing. And unless you are going to claim that Jeff snuck into Google headquarters and "embellished" Googles caches, you're gonna have to 'fess up.
And you can quit slinking over to Ace's place too, to beg for favors. Your multiple personalities are all over the place: whining a sob story here at unfogged, defiant pseudo-martyr posting at your place; and "please help me" begging at Ace's and Blackfive's. It's all so pathetic and unhinged.
Jeff is a dick. No two ways about it. He's thin-skinned, he's overbearing, obnoxious, hypocritical, weak, he's all those things and more. LIMIT YOUR ATTACKS TO JEFF AND NO ONE WILL BE OUTRAGED.
Deb attacked his child. There is no excuse and no defense, and she deserves to be shunned for it. Instead you're coddling her. She's literally crazy, there is something wrong with her and she needs help, not pats on the back and people trying to hide what she did by flipping it around onto Jeff.
This is all so not-jolly. Redhead just harshed my David Bowie, Keira Knightley buzz. If you want to stay, you have to submit to being our pet troll. No more of this killing children stuff.
Dude, is Unfogged the only blog that linked to this blogspat? Are all the other blogs DOSed, down, or not have comments? Why is everyone coming HERE for God's sake?
Also: Johnny Depp is really really hott. Orlando and Keira should be written into bit parts.
I've been taking notes on every comment and my brain hurts. Will this be on the test?
Unfogged should adopt a pet goat or two. (Bush is still trying to get rid of his.) They do a good job at triming the lawn, the nannies produce excellent cheese, and goats are wicked good at butting the trolls over the mountain.
I want a savory crepe with goat cheese and jerk goat. After that, a thousand-pastry dessert cart truck for my dining pleasure.
I don't like Orlando, either. I don't understand why he's the teen heartthrob. He's not that great an actor, and he's not that hot. Are they just out of young actors to thrust upon the public?
There are many more. Appears most comments are against god and white males. She has repeatedly tried to outrage with her comments.
Of course, that is nothing new for the new left. She is the face of what many of them are becoming; Kos, DU, Air America, Deaniacs, the anti-Liebermans.
They called down the thunder, now they have it. And good luck with all of those prizes...
cool, promises of S&M sessions from the regulars at Unfogged.....you guys are great. Thanks FL for posting a link here from debfrisch.com website in her comments section. Without you I'd never realize to what great lengths the lovers of desert foods, Bowie, policing grammar, and sadomasochism fans you all are. It's cool to see everyone one the same wavelength...almost like the vast right wing conspiracy. And, my true thanks for being anointed troll status in your lovely comments section....the powers that be here are truley gracious.
Jackmormon, I am here because I followed a link to this thread pointing out the commentary (and specifically, Deb's comment). Would you all prefer we post the comments at our own sites and tell our readers not to click the link?
Look, you guys are missing the point. Jeff Goldstein is used to attacks from you. Nobody would have cared particularly if Deb had stuck to normal trolling (why this appears to be a hobby of hers, I have no idea). But making sexual comments about a two year-old child and saying things like "If your kid gets JonBeneted I won't care," is beyond the pale and is indicative of a very sick mind. Think about it--WOULD YOU make such comments? How would you react if someone said that to you (if you're a parent)? I have my own stalker (completely apolitical, just a vandal) who has made similar comments about my daughter and I assure you, I know exactly how pissed off JeffG must be. Apparently you don't. I'm rather surprised (well, not really--more like amused) at your obvious inability to put yourselves in the position of another human being, even if he IS a "paste-eater" or wingnut or whatever.
To try to turn it around and say tough shit, he says blah blah blah, is ridiculous. I know he hasn't ever made comments about anyone's child--I challenge anyone to find where he has. In fact, please do find where any "wingnut" has made such comments, and I can assure you such a person WILL be shunned--not just because of politics, but because bringing children (or other family, but particularly children) into it is WRONG and SICK.
I can't believe you'd gloss over the sexualization of a two year-old child and make this all about Jeff "the paste-eater," whatever you think of him. See comment #184 again, please. At least that person gets it.
You mock my childhood! Come on, it's not kitschy. Or, at least it's not selfconsciously kitschy -- all that stuff is there because they like it, not because it's funny. And the pastry is really good.
(Have they gone downhill? I haven't been there much of late because it's way out of my way.)
I blame LB for the fact that I went and read that stupid comment thread. Also for the fact that I am now going to point out that everyone who is so outraged about the threat!!! to JG's child!!! seems completely unaware of the fact that said threat was retracted. What's really obscene, from the threatening-kids-standpoint, is how many people seem to welcome such a thing as an opportunity to stoke their sense of political outrage. I mean, honestly, people. If you think that said threats were (1) real and (2) truly upsetting, wouldn't you react by doing something other than worrying over "the left" and silly blogwars and trolling blogs and sputtering over how unfair and unjust it all is?
I know, I know, I'm only encouraging them. Maybe I should go get my own cake, b/c obviously no one is going to bring me any.
There was a kitschy bakery in my own youth, called Webb's. Mr. B. once broke my heart by pointing out that it was horribly kitschy and not actually all that good when I took him there after raving about how marvellous it was and how we went there every Sunday after church.
Another time he put my Velveteen Rabbit in the washing machine and shrunk it.
This is on the verge of escaping the sandbox (blogosphere) and going mainstream. If that happens, her original comments will only be the beginning of the story. Her amazingly insincere apology ("The point of resigning is that it is something I was thinking of doing anyway") , the DOS attack, and the "Yes, but" posts from the left side of the 'sphere will be the meat.
If it happens - and I'd give it at least a 50/50 shot - it could do serious harm to the progressive voices in the net.
When teh Real World gets ahold of this information about LizardBreath threatening to kill my cat, the liberal blogosphere is gonna be in a whole world of pain. For it wasn't just LizardBreath, but everything she stands for who threatened my cat. And it wasn't just my cat she threatened, it was freedom.
Neutral reportage + "yuck, that's a gross thing to write when trolling" + 200 comments about cheesecake, the hotness of Johnny Depp and David Bowie + irritation at swarms of driveby denouncers = complicity?
Wouldn't know, I haven't been there in about 10 years -- I think last time I was there was while I was cooking at Veselka and was acquainting myself with all the neighborhood bakeries -- maybe I have been once in the intervening time but it would have been by accident. I don't really remember all the places but that one stands out in my memory as jive. There was a good German bakery on 2nd Ave in addition to some not-so-good ones.
You guys are sick. You really don't get it, do you?
Color me unsurprised. Contrast that with someone like Jeralyn Merritt, who, while nothing like you mouth-breathers, is on "your side" but wants nothing to do with anyone who sexualizes children.
And BTW, bitch, about the retraction? She can "retract," but the fact remains that this woman obviously considers children sexual objects. That is disgusting.
Jack, surely you knew that wasn't going to produce any kind of happy result. And Beth, you're going to have to step it up to edge out Svolok. That "sandbox (blogosphere)" defining his terms bit? Trolling gold.
96: "Rarely do we get a true picture of what modern-day leftist politics really is. Bitter, mean, nasty, intolerant."
"Rule 42! The oldest rule in the book!"
If you rarely get this picture, and I think that in fact you rarely do, then it is not "a true picture of what modern-day leftist politics really is". It's one person who is not typical or representative.
I'm waaaay late on this, but LB, 114: I love that place. The only thing that beats their cannoli is the marzipan breast. (What else could that be attempting to resemble, with the cherry on top of the creamy dome, smoothly topped with white marzipan?) We could definitely do that.
LizardBreath, honey, I don't "troll." I've brought ID, I've addressed you all politely, despite your silly responses. I don't care about your essays, applications, or "stepping it up." Even those who didn't want to leave real email addresses were polite (presumably because they figured they'd be trolled by you, based on what's seen here).
People really do underestimate the value of complete, literate sentences in effective communication. Poor jummy upthread wasn't going to manage to annoy anyone.
(1) Let's be honest: Beth seems sane, if wrong in her description of...our relationship to Deb, what we've said, everything, etc.
(2) The rest are...wierd. I'm actually kind of hoping that "they" are really a "he" that's off his meds, and who can't get a prescription till Monday. Maybe like a certain ild-chay ee-fray commenter.
(3) In as much as I have no idea how crazy you'd have to be to actually get banned by CT (Jeebus--their comment threads look like that after bannings?), but I'm pretty sure it's in the general area of "very," it's hard hard to hold Deb responsible. Same goes for the ild-chay guy(s). So we should all agree that this thread is all B's fault. And that, as B's an academic, and thus representative of all academics, we should gracefully concede that D-Ho's probably right.
236: I think those are supposed to be St. Agatha's breasts. In the course of her martyrdom her breasts were amputated, and she is shown in paintings holding them out on a little tray. But god is merciful, and now they are delicious pastries.
I, for one, am about to consider this cake a sexual object. It's pink, even. And I gave the first piece to PK because he has such an adorable, sweet, round, yummy little bottom.
This has been a very confusing thread to follow. If I've got the story right, some lefty with a serious troll disease made some very nasty, over-the-top comments at a pastry-eater's website, then righties with serious troll disease swelled to the bursting point with Outrage (TM) and Righteous Indignation (TM) and proceeded to expel huge stinking gusts of both of them in this and other threads. Meanwhile, the regular community of this site indicated their displeasure for the original offence, then picked up on the pastry-eating theme and ran with it. Also, David Bowie, Johnny Depp, and - what? Oh, that's PASTE eating? Sorry. Never mind.
245: Setting out to support 242 since about two minutes ago.
(But Tim, c'mon. You gotta give Beth a few nutso points for being quite so hung up on the whole child molestation angle--especially given that the so-called threats seem not in any way to have actually said any such thing.)
244: Thank you, mcmc! This solves a mystery. I keep going in and just pointing and giggling, but now I have a name for them. If you're wrong, this could be painfully embarrassing, but we'll try it out anyway.
Why bother being genuinely creepy and completely unamusing when there's so much good material to work with?
She's an unamusing creep? 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' only works if you have very low standards for friends -- just because she thinks Goldstein's a jerk doesn't mean she's not a worse jerk herself.
But this seems to have resolved itself nicely -- she said some stuff which should be absolutely unacceptable, and the resulting outrage has caused her to resign from her job.
Were you familiar with her before? This is the first thing I've seen about her.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 12:37 PM
This is what happens when Fresh Pepper goes on hiatus.
Posted by dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 12:43 PM
Can't parse...too many negations...send help. What I meant was that there are plenty of funny things to say about Goldstein without involving his child, making (what sound like) threats, and so on. The ridicule writes itself, as RM's post demonstrates.
It is sort of funny that everyone is shocked-- shocked!-- that someone would say this to Jeff "I want to slap your face with my cock" Goldstein.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 12:48 PM
What she wrote is indeed in poor taste and over the line, but I find it very hard to believe, given the standards of civility to which Jeff Goldstein normally holds himself (my COCK is BIG and SLAPS YOU and RAPES YOU IN THE FACE!!!), that seriously he found her writing threatening.
Glad she resigned because she was out of line; but I don't like the witchhunt mentality and the chortling. Woohoo, you knocked off a foul-mouthed adjunct. Big boysies you are. (And wasn't this beyond the pale with P/aul De/ignan?)
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 12:54 PM
Of course, (3) is not a defense of what she said, or what Malkin claims she said. LB, I'm confused as to what you thought was Frisch-exculpatory in the post.
Now she's explaining in slightly more detail.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 12:58 PM
Assuming the quotes are accurate, she was way, way over the line -- I can't say that, given the demographics of it all, that I'd call what she said scary threats, but they were implied sexual threats against a small child. Really not comparable to He Who Shall Not Be Named, who before he started suing was just irritating.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:01 PM
Cala, is it wrong that I keep laughing at "rapes you in the face"?
You're right that the chortling is annoying; even more annoying is that she's now become the true face of the academy and of leftishness and of etc.
All of this is making me curious. Is she a freakity freak? Or was she just pretty drunk and talking shite on the internet one night? I find moments of bad judgment that derail (decisionmakers') lives to be poignant. It's just an added layer of irony that her academic work is on...decisionmaking.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:03 PM
5: Didn't think you were excusing her -- I just meant to say that there's no need for a special explanation for bad behavior. People, regardless of affiliation, just behave badly.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:03 PM
Probably, FL, but you only find it funny 'cause you're a liberal wienie.
LB, I'm not condoning it; I'm just finding the hand-wringing to be overly theatrical, much as I would if someone that Goldstein was making rape threats when he said he's slap people with his COCK! his BIG COCK!
And the guy writing in that 'huzzah, we've cured the academy of leftists! ha, ha!' just really needs to get the fuck over himself. She's a jerk because she's a jerk, not because she's politically liberal. She may not even be fired, especially as her department chair is waiting till Monday, which I'm taking as code for 'It'll probably blow over by then.'
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:08 PM
This raises the even more fundamental question of why anyone would want to begin wading in this cesspool in the first place.
Amen to that. Goldstein's a lot funnier when I only hear about him second- and third-hand. I try to avoid drug-addled bloggers with persecution complexes like street-corner shouters (the drug-addled part is fine, actually; but persecution complexes are dull). When Jeff starts carrying out his cock-slapping threats, then maybe I'll start reading him.
I've never heard of Frisch before, but anyone who gets that invested in Goldstein sounds a little toolish, too.
Posted by Paul | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:09 PM
Idunno, sometimes explanations of bad behavior are interesting. Now, in your next comment, accuse me of being an explanationist appeasionist defeatist capitulationist* for wanting to offer our enemies therapy, and we'll be off and running with an internal feud.
*Malkin really did use this word recently, teehee.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:11 PM
** Not ironically?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:13 PM
In one post she says "Jeff, I lost my job. You won." But in the next she says that she was thinking of resigning anyway. Innnteresting.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:14 PM
Eh, Goldstein initially backed D/gnan, then made a half-assed attempt to superficially "distance" him from D's lawsuit threats while nonetheless feeling quite free to imply that I was, if not quite worthy of being sued, certainly typical of everything that's wrong with the left. I didn't see him getting too hung up on how crappy it was of D/gnan to threaten me, which I admit makes it pretty hard for me to care about how crappy it is for someone to threaten him.
And if that seems callous, well, sue me.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:14 PM
but I don't like the witchhunt mentality and the chortling.
That I don't get. It's not nice, but we do it, too. Fair's fair.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:14 PM
The puzzling part of this is that ridiculing Goldstein isn't hard at all.
I was thinking, yeah. Why would she ridicule him? I mean, he's been in some really bad movies, but The Fly was pretty damn good. I mean, really why would anybody care anyways?
Oops. So who's Jeff Goldstein?
This raises the even more fundamental question of why anyone would want to begin wading in this cesspool in the first place.
Teleportation?
max
['So, um, anyways. Never mind.']
Posted by max | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:15 PM
Cala: no, she meant it. Malkin was referring to either the president of UC Santa Cruz or someone higher up, for giving in to anti-war protesters or something.
B,PhD: heh-indeedy, but still, that kid-oriented stuff gave me the willies.
Tim: point taken. I've been sort of double-standardy on this, I admit.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:21 PM
SCMTim, I don't think we've tried to get anyone fired for their politics. (I say for her politics because had she been just a random troll on that blog, I don't imagine it would have gone anywhere.)
While Frisch is out of line, I'm disliking the implied 'and we'll get the libruls out of education entirely because you're all like this!' Call me paranoid, but I'm not exactly comfortable being a wannabe female academic because apparently it's like painting a target on my ass.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:21 PM
The funny thing about flaps like this is that they always seem to be about people I've never heard of. Who the hell was Ward Churchill before he wrote that 9-11 piece? Who's Frisch? I mean, maybe she has a readership that I don't know about, but not all that much of one.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:22 PM
Also, wait. Wasn't part of Goldstein's defense of D/gnan that it was really crappy of H/ttle to put D/gnan's job at risk because of what was just a silly internet dust up?
Oh, irony.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:23 PM
Dei/gnan! Dei/gnan! Dei/gnan! Dei/gnan! [Googleproofed. LB]
Woooo!
Posted by The Liberal Avenger | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:23 PM
No, she's representative of all academics. She must be, because she's an adjunct at a state school.
Also, the academy is so far left that divinity schools at top universities exist in careful maintained space-time anomalies powered by conservative students running in hamsters wheels, being flogged all the while by the women's studies department.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:24 PM
Which is where that double-standard thing comes in. I may still be being double-standardy, but the impression I have of our pile-ons is "Look at the genuinely influential person on the right being horrible -- righties all suck because they admire and respect horrible people!" Their pile-ons look to me more like "Look at this horrible person on the left -- lefties all suck because I can dig up horrible people who agree with them!"
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:26 PM
Now *I'm* getting hassled via email by the flying-monkey wingnut army. Because of what?
Because after telling Deb unconditionally that what she did was WRONG and STUPID and that from afar it looks like MENTAL ILLNESS, that EVEN SO, she shouldn't lose her job?
It seems like the wingnuts feel that anything short of my issuing an all out FATWEH against this person makes me a child-rapist.
I can remember the Iranians issuing a fatweh against Salman Rushdie for writing something they didn't like. You wingnuts are in their league.
You are also indeed hypocritical. Coming off celebratory attacks including home addresses, phone numbers and contact information against MOONBATS like NYTimes editors and photographers, LIBERAL TEACHERS AND PROFESSORS, antiwar UC Santa Cruz students, the PARK RANGERS and DESIGN FIRM responsible for the United Flight 93 memorial, you have a lot of balls pretending that Deb is the only one who has ever crossed the line in terms of nasty blogosphere rhetoric.
Grow the fuck up you fascist wingnut fucks.
Posted by The Liberal Avenger | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:26 PM
Yeah, threatening people's kids is fucking gross. Guess what? It happens all the time. As do rape threats and threats of sexual violence, by the way. You can't take every asshole troll seriously.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:28 PM
18: I wasn't really thinking about her getting fired (or resigning, etc.); I was thinking about laughing at her for getting fired. Not nice, but I certainly have laughed when bad things have happened to (those I perceive to be) bad people.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:28 PM
could you people please stop the ddos attack on jeff's site? isn't it bad enough that he has to protect his child from you now?
Posted by jummy | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:28 PM
A very good question why a person would hang out in that cesspool long after noticing its cesspool nature.
There was a post where Jeff said he'd like to keep me in his zoo as his token moonbat. I gladly agreed. I really loved the idea that I could evolve from troll to pet moonbat so easily. Usually I get banned.
It all seemed to be going well, but then Jeff seemed to lose interest in me as a zoo member and all there was was sexual, disgusting comments from the pee nut gallery who were luvving tinkling on my ankle.
I tried to take it like an hombre, but it really got under my skin.
I should have left at that point, but somehow, I got on Jeff's radar again and I decided to chitchat with him from 8-9 one night (I can't figure out what night it was - it would be easy if protein wisdom was up, but it's not.)
That's when it escalated to me wanting to give him a taste of his own medicine. If I retaliated in kind (made disgusting comments about his private parts), it would have just turned on all the vermin in the right wing pee nut gallery. By telling Jeff that I would not be upset if harm came to his two year old, I was trying to create in him the feeling I had from all the sexual comments.
I am thinking he grokked the message.
I'm sorry for playing the kid card - honorable warriors do not go there and i will not do it again. i have learned my lesson. But I only played the kid card because it seemed like my only move other than letting the pee nut gallery get away with tinkling on my ankle.
Next time, I'll leave before getting to this point.
Sure will be interesting if and when protein wisdom ever gets up and running again.
Methinks Jeff took the site offline himself - it sure is convenient for him to be the only one with the raw data. I think. Can someone really knock out your site for DAYS?!?
Posted by deb | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:29 PM
Is #27 a joke?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:29 PM
Absolutely. I'll stop anything I'm doing relating to a denial of service attack on Goldstein's site right now. Shouldn't take me long.
Shouldn't have much of an effect on whoever is doing it, though.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:30 PM
29: I'd expect not. Most of the people who make jokes around here know how to use a shift key.
And Deb, not that I know you, but jeez, you're making us look bad.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:33 PM
23: Yeah, it looks like the left says "that is not okay" when a leftie acts like an asshole, and the right either backs rightie assholes or just ignores them. But I haven't seen too many of these left/right bullshit dustups where the right has actually *condemened* their trolls.
Lest it appear that I'm a hypocrite, what this woman did is clearly stupid and obnoxious. I don't know whether she "deserved" to lose her job over it, but it is certainly to be expected. I just don't think that the "outrage" by Malkin and Goldstein's usual troop of monkeys is evidence of anything but their using small assholery as an excuse to perpetuate their much bigger assholery.
Speaking of threats, didn't Malkin publish some college student's address and contact info on her site and refuse to take it down even when they were predictably threatened by her readers? She's got no fucking call to get on her moral high horse over this one.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:34 PM
Why isn't it 'protean' wisdom, by the way?
Someone can knock out someone's site for days, but it's probably pretty unlikely that it was the liberal horde designed for that purpose. For one, this scandal only started to get publicity recently, and his server's been down for days. For two, the liberal horde switches off hamster-wheel duty with the women's studies department. They've got an alibi.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:34 PM
Now *I'm* getting hassled via email by the flying-monkey wingnut army.
Me too, LB. Of course in my case what these rubes don't realize is that this will likely only provoke me into visiting the paste eater's site and really whipping up the rubes into a homocidal frenzy.
Posted by Robert McClelland | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:35 PM
"Prof." Frisch apparently received my comment suggesting she remove the Ed Abbey epigram from her blog in that what she posted at PW would not appear to have been what Cactus Ed had in mind when he said those words...
...and she closed the thread.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
Now she's posted another thread telling everyone, in essence, to F-off. I wrote this and sent it when the comment count was still zero.
Want to bet that doesn't make it through her defense shields either?
So which is it, Prof? Are you really apologizing to Mr. Goldstein, or simply further "entertaining" your friends?
Inquiring minds want to know.
D. Edgren
Posted by D. Edgren | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:35 PM
Is the baked goods policy still in effect? I wants some waffles.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:38 PM
What a bunch of idiots. (I am now, even though I'm still thinking I was right, feeling bad about that irate post I made about Reynolds the other week. At least I've never sent anyone a nasty email who wasn't a close personal friend.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:39 PM
25 - is why I now make it a point to try and keep a low profile online and participate in blogs anonymously. My own blog (which is basically now collecting dust) has become more benign and technical. I never talk too much about my kids and certainly do not post pictures. A creepy ex-coworker (with mental problems) from several years back emailed me out of the blue a couple years ago and in the email mentioned to me that we had "cute kids" (he had found some pictures posted on a relative's site; needless to say, I made them pull them down asap!). He emailed me a couple more times asking me to be a reference for a job (even though I know he got arrested for sabotaging our ex-employer's computer system). Since I tend to be cautious to begin with, events like this spook me.
Posted by TD | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:39 PM
Mmm. Cake. Anyone bring cake?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:40 PM
There was a post where Jeff said he'd like to keep me in his zoo as his token moonbat. I gladly agreed. I really loved the idea that I could evolve from troll to pet moonbat so easily.
Oh, God, oh, God, oh, God ... why am I thinking of furries?
Posted by Paul | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:40 PM
Actually Deb's got a point. The "she's threatening his child!!" thing is rich coming from a site where people seem to think sexual harassment is hilarious.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:40 PM
38: I know. I'd love to post pictures of my kids, but it just seems like such a bad idea.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:41 PM
Dont miss the point, this is not about Goldstein. Nothing he says deserves the comments made by this nutjob nor the DOS attacks he is suffering. Its clear these are linked. If we want to be credible, we must admit this.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:41 PM
43: What you mean 'we',
white manperson who doesn't use apostrophes?Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:43 PM
Look, we maintain high standards. Waffles, and an identifiable handle. Apostrophes are also recommended.
So, B. When you taught your first class, did you look like an undergraduate and what, if anything, did you do about it?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:44 PM
We made a lemon poppyseed cake for the 4th. It didn't come out quite right, but was still tasty enough. There's some left over still. I'm not much of a cake person.
Posted by JL | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:46 PM
Ooh! We're making lunch orders? Once again, I would like a delicious ham and spinach crepe with a nice pilsner and a good salad. For dessert, I think, some creme brulee and, since it's the weekend, a nice glass of some kind of sweet white wine?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:48 PM
the DOS attacks he is suffering.
Puhleeze. Jeff's site is probably down because the server overloaded after all the bedwetters rushed to comfort the poor boy following his frightening ordeal with a schoolteacher.
Posted by Robert McClelland | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:49 PM
Or, you know, coincidence. One of our recent bouts of server outage coincided with some inter-blog spat (although I can't remember what it was), and I remember being moderately worried that people would think they were connected.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:50 PM
No, no, my school's e-mail servers were down all week. It's a conspiracy.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:52 PM
Hmm. Am I having dinner with people this evening, or just going to the party? If dining alone, I could do it now. Or soonish...
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:54 PM
49 - the NSA must have just been experiencing problems with ECHELON around then, slowing you down.
Posted by TD | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:56 PM
45: I did. I learned after that first semester not to wear jeans; it helps to hit an Ann Taylor sale (or something similar) and buy grown-up looking separates. That said, my recommendation is to start out the first day going over the syllabus, laying down the law, and saying very firmly that you do not accept late assignments under any circumstances (you can always make "exceptions" during the semester, but don't tell them that). It helps enormously to have a lecture prepared for the first day: finish going over the syllabus, then say, "take out your notebooks" and start lecturing. Make sure there's a reading assignment that they have to do before the next class.
Then, as the semester goes on, you relax. Pause frequently to ask if anyone has any questions, say earnest things like, "I really want to make sure you're getting it, so if I need to clarify something, please tell me," praise folks who ask questions for being "brave enough to ask a question I'm sure lots of people have," and so on.
Basically, if you're friendly at the outset, they will walk all over you, but if you're scary all the way through the semester, they'll hate you. So I usually start with scary and become friendlier after the first couple of weeks.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:57 PM
I would like a delicious ham and spinach crepe
Earlier today I was contemplating a drive to north central MA partly on the basis ofthis recommendation to add chive covered goat cheese to an omelet. I would have bought a lot of cheese; it's a topic on which I am quite suggestible.
Posted by JL | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:57 PM
52 to 50 also
Posted by TD | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 1:57 PM
Nice jobs, Labs. Your relapse has stirred the pond.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:00 PM
53 - then say, "take out your notebooks" and start lecturing
Was it just me or is there an inverse relationship between amount of notes taken and performance? When I finally realized I didn't have to frantically try to write everything down just because everybody around me was recording everything word-for-word (because that's what you're supposed to do!?) and I actually started to listen and actively think along with what the professor was doing instead, the amount of notes I took dropped down to barely any and my grades improved by about 150% !
Posted by TD | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:05 PM
Was it just me
Yes.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:06 PM
I've never successfully figured out how to take notes and listen at the same time, so I've always just listened. Never seemed to do me any harm academically.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:06 PM
I am a horrible note-taker. It is alleged to be a Strategy For Success, but woe to the person who asks to borrow my notes* as they tend to be more my responses to the seminar/lecture than what the professor is saying. Also, in college I once took biology notes in German. I was bored.
*unless it's a class I'm TAing. I tend to take those notes down verbatim because I need to know what the prof said because the students will find one little thing and get hung up on it.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:07 PM
Cala - "...this scandal only started to get publicity recently, and his server's been down for days."
what does this suggest to you about the proximity of the perpetrator to the crime?"
Posted by jummy | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:12 PM
57--for most classes, particularly upper-division ones, yes, though a few classes are pretty note-taking intensive. Science classes, for example, at least the lower-level ones I took. I also had a poli-sci professor who spoke in what was essentially outline form (he wasn't actually reading an outline or anything--his own notes were pretty spare, it was just his way of talking), it was useful (and easy) to take detailed notes in that class.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:14 PM
Back to the post, Instapundit can't write clearly to save his life. Check this out:
Wouldn't you read that as an assertion that the linked apology was an admission of responsibility for the DOS attack? You'd be wrong if you did.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:15 PM
D. Edgren, yes, she is banning dissenting comments.
Posted by jummy | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:15 PM
58-60 - I don't ever being taught how to do it effectively. Perhaps nowadays incoming college students are better informed as to how to take them advantageously without getting in the way of listening/understanding. All I know is I naively thought you're supposed to write everything down the professor writes on the board verbatim - because that's what everybody else was doing - and it seriously interfered with my ability to focus on the bigger picture when all you're worried about was what word they just scribbed down on the board too fast.
Posted by TD | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:16 PM
what does this suggest to you about the proximity of the perpetrator to the crime?
A-ha! The butler did it!
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:16 PM
62: See, in most of the classes I took, science and humanities, all of the actual information is somewhere in a text that you have. Notes always seemed like a pointless attempt to recreate a textbook. If you listen with attention, you can remember the high points, and return to the text for the details. (I do recognize that this doesn't work for many people.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:18 PM
Not very much, nummy little jummy. Psychologists suck at using computers.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:20 PM
67 - exactly right! But nobody ever tells math/science students this!
Posted by TD | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:22 PM
I scribbled more in my science & math classes.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:23 PM
Oh goody, it's the frothing ad hominems = dissent meme. This definitely calls for more than just a damn crepe. I require a dozen fresh croissants and half a dozen eclairs.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:23 PM
My grades were intimately connected to the quality of my notes. They reflected the professor's emphasis, and therefore what I should be paying attention to in the otherwise overly large text, or set of texts.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:24 PM
The point of the introductory lecture isn't to make them learn much. It's to scare them. You end up having to repeat everything anyway, since on the first day people are still shopping, but it gives you an excuse to say to the folks who show up on the second day that "they've already missed the first lecture and are behind on the reading assignment, however, if they really think they can keep up with the class, you're willing to put them on the waiting list."
Nice professor can tell them how to take good notes later in the semester, if you like.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:25 PM
I also tend to remember everything I write.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:25 PM
A lot of professors use lectures to supplement the text(s), though, so it does pay to take notes in those classes. Of course, you have to have already done the reading to know what's new and what isn't.
TD is of course right that trying to write down verbatim everything the professor says is madness; you have to focus on the important things. I tend to write down everything professors write on the board, but mine tend to not write much on the board, so that may be too much for other people. I actually take very bad notes; I always decide not to write some things down because I'm sure I'll remember them, but I never do.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:26 PM
67--I assume this isn't universal, but for those intro classes that are fact-heavy (so to speak) I found that my professors explained things better than the textbook did. A lot of this is becasue I can't stand just reading textbooks most of the time--I'll come across something that I don't quite understand, and my inability to ask the book a question (try as I might) is frustrating. By the time the next class rolled around, I'd forget what my question was. I'm impatient--I want my questions answered NOW, dammit.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:28 PM
Yeah, I remember what I write too. Plus I see no point in lecturing on material that they have in text form, and if I am lecturing on something that exists in text form ("this lecture summarizes Bakhtin's theory of the novel, which I'm not requiring you to read") I tell them where to get it if they actually want to have more than a thumbnail sketch.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:29 PM
Yeah, this introductory lecture is kind of a bitch. I'm fine once I have an argument to kick around, but this overview shit sucks because I feel like I'm being very vague. I suppose they don't know that, though.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:29 PM
Exactly! They don't know anything, and all you can really do on the first day is a broad vague sketch anyway. Mostly the first day is about passing out the syllabus and performing an implied set of expectations that This Is Going To Be A Very Demanding Course.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:31 PM
Oh, I didn't mean to say that lectures were useless, just that I generally found that my memory was well enough jogged by the text to get back everything important in the lecture. And this works for me because (a) I've got a very, very good memory for explanations -- if I've got some prompting with specifics I can always get back the shape of an argument and (b) I'm a horrible note-taker -- I find the process of taking notes distracting and the end product pretty useless.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:31 PM
I haven't attended many lectures in years as all my grad school education has been in the form of seminars or one-to-one tutorials.
However, I usually found the best thing was when lecturers handed out outlines in advance. That way I could scribble my responses, comments, immediate impressions, and so on, on the pre-prepared class notes.*
The verbatim note scribbling thing I did for most of my first year as an undergraduate which was a total waste of time.
* As an aside, I had one lecturer as an undergraduate who gave very detailed lecture notes which seemed tailor made for exam revision. The bastard then spent 3 weeks of a 10 week introduction to Hume class going on about the missing shade of blue accompanied by copious and detailed lecture notes.
Then, we discovered, when the final exam came round, that he'd chosen *not* to set any questions on it and instead the vast bulk of the questions were on topics that were relegated to parenthetical asides in the lectures and lecture notes.
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:32 PM
I always thought that when wingnut blogs were under DOS attack it was the evil Muslim jihadists who were responsible.
This time, I guess, it's just moonbats.
I wonder if the moonbats involved were train in DOS attacks at al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan?
Posted by The Liberal Avenger | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:33 PM
#48 You are one CRAZY Canuck. I should add hypocritical and some other choice words too. The vitriol on your site is amazing. The prof was WAY out of line and her defense of it is pathetic.
Posted by Bill Maron | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:34 PM
I found that my professors explained things better than the textbook did. A lot of this is becasue I can't stand just reading textbooks most of the time
For me, these were the keys. In a good class, I could cut down the amount of work needed to be done if my professor pointed out what I should (because he did) actually care about. But this is all very idiosyncratic, and by the time you've hit college (and esp. graduate school) , most people have sorted out some system that works for them.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:34 PM
82: THAT'S how you fight the 101st Fighting
Captain Kirk wannabesKeyboardists!Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:36 PM
Nice professor can tell them how to take good notes later in the semester, if you like.
I certainly wasn't suggesting it's a professor's duty to tell their students how to take notes; I just find it odd that the topic is such an "unspoken thing that nobody ever talks about" other than to say "taking notes are important". Yeah, but what kind of notes and how many and in what way?
Of course, you have to have already done the reading to know what's new and what isn't.
Yes, this was part of the epiphany - I started to read the text before class so I was already somewhat familiar with what was being covered as it was being covered in class. Before that, when all I was doing was dictation, I was under the common belief that you don't have to read the textbooks because the only thing that matters is what the professor is covering and they write on the board all the "important" things. Which also played to another misconception. Just going to class, even if you do nothing, is 10x more fruitful than copying down somebody else's "perfect notes" later.
(I apologize for posting these comments off topic)
Posted by TD | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:40 PM
[sweeps on cloak of reversal]
My impression here at Oxford is that lectures fall very very far down the heirarchy of teaching methods.
There are undergraduate lectures in all the key philosophy topics but I've never had the impression that the undergraduates attend that many of them. They're going to get an hour of one-on-one time with a tutor every week to go over the topic so it's not so important to them to attend the lecture.
[My impression may be wrong though.]
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:41 PM
84: s/b ("and esp. graduate school, I assume"). But who knows, esp. with the philospher-types. Wolfson should do an extended post on this, synching his argument to music that no one else has heard of, or to movies he's never seen.
(Are you there, Ben? Where are the pictures of your trip?)
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:43 PM
this was part of the epiphany - I started to read the text before class
I found that where possible (if you're discussing a short paper, say) it made all the difference to read the thing twice.
I have a feeling I have said this here before. Apologies, if so. But that was my big epiphany!
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:44 PM
So much so that I'm still ephiphing about it years later.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:45 PM
87 was my experience of the British system, too.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:47 PM
80 - yes, exactly, once again! ()
89 - yuck! maybe a math theorem a few times, but short story once is enough!
Posted by TD | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:47 PM
88: Ben's probably drinking shots at some German bar, since the Germs just won the game against Portugal.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:49 PM
epiphing
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:49 PM
reading this thread has been like following a conversation in a very rowdy rugby bar...
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 2:55 PM
Spectacular job, Deb. Rarely do we get a true picture of what modern-day leftist politics really is. Bitter, mean, nasty, intolerant. The Howard Dean Party. It's also great to see a handful of people attempting to defend the indefensible. Keep on digging that hole, folks.
Posted by Lou Minatti | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:07 PM
You people are sick
Posted by Sharkbait | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:13 PM
It's a sorry state of affairs when you're put in the position of having to justify her perverted behavioring by saying, "Yeah, but..."
If I were you, I'd boot her off the island and boldly announce, "She's not one of ours." Instead, you'll all end up having to back her just to make a political point.
Wait and see. She'll be reinvented as a martyr to your cause.
You should be so proud...
Posted by Redhead Infidel | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:18 PM
97 is totally right!
Posted by Witchsmeller | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:19 PM
100!
Posted by Witchsmeller | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:19 PM
I'm not seeing any cake here. Or any waffles. You people promised to bring waffles.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:23 PM
"behavioring" = "behavior"
PIMF and haste makes waste and all that...
Posted by Typo correction | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:24 PM
Oh, don't worry about typos like that -- everyone makes those. The no-apostrophe look is different.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:25 PM
Wait, was anyone here defending her? FUCK.
ALL Y'ALL LEFTISTS LOOK ALIKE.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:26 PM
That's true -- I must say that after this last bout I'm feeling better about my Reynolds post. Clearly it would have gotten the same reaction whatever it said.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:31 PM
Do you people think this is the substitute goldstein-blog or what? Bring us mille-feuilles layered with rich butter-cream and drizzled with bitter chocolate, or get the fuck out of here.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:35 PM
101: They never do, LB. They talk it up and get you all excited and then they don't put out.
Posted by strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:37 PM
oh goody...the "less confrontational" version...filled with self-spam and grammar nazis. Help, help, I'm being repressed.
Posted by victim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:42 PM
I find moments of bad judgment that derail (decisionmakers') lives to be poignant. It's just an added layer of irony that her academic work is on...decisionmaking.
The Law of the Mental Mirror Image strikes again.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:42 PM
She'll be reinvented as a martyr to your cause.
What cause is that?
Fuck waffles. I want dark chocolate, raspberries, and chilled white wine.
Posted by Paul | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:47 PM
108: I'm sorry we're not being mean enough to you, victim. Would it help if I told you we were all gay American-hating communists who regularly fellate the corpse of Mao Tse-tung inbetween readings from the Townhouse-directed writings of the Lord High Kos?
Posted by strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:50 PM
Didn't Frisch troll Crooked Timber years ago? Same person?
I have not read any of this thread and probably won't be able to for a few hours, so apologies if this has been mentioned.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:50 PM
Where are the martyrs to pastry? That's what I want to know. It is a sad, sad world when no one will defend pastry.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:50 PM
You know, if there's another NYC meetup we should totally go out for pastry instead of drinking. There's a place on 1st and 11th with Italian pastries that would break your heart.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:51 PM
113: Defend them to the death, B? They may be delicious, but have they died for my sins?
Posted by strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:53 PM
I'm holding out for pastry and drinking, damn it.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:53 PM
115: Well, I personally don't want to be a martyr. But I'd rather martyr myself for pastry than for trolling JG. Wouldn't you?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:56 PM
114: I'll come down from boston for that one.
I must share: an elderly friend of mine is closing up her house and moving to Mexico, and has promised me her box of the complete works of P. G. Wodehouse! Yay! also, someone to visit in Mexico!
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:58 PM
112: It hasn't been mentioned before, and I now feel somewhat silly about having claimed never to have heard of her before, given that I have the second comment in one of those threads, pointing out that DF, making the first comment, is wrong.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 3:59 PM
the complete works of P. G. Wodehouse!
Literally? All ninety-some? Wow.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:00 PM
She's pretty sure--the collection was begun by her parents.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:01 PM
114- And it begins with a V.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:03 PM
when i saw the link to this site, i thought it very responsible of frisch's peers to gently pull her out of the fray and begin the process of self-reflection and self-correction nessesary to move beyond this point. instead we are presented with self-justifying hate. the thoughts presented here are as ugly as deborah frisch's threats against jeff goldstein's child, and that is deeply dissapointing on a human level.
her comments, so they might wedge themselves back into this discussion of them, were...
"... as I said elsewhere, if I woke up tomorrow and learned that someone else had shot you and your “tyke” it wouldn’t slow me down one iota. You aren’t “human” to me....So if you could just tell me the AGE and SEX of your “tyke,” I’d be stoked! Thanx!"
...and repitition of the same. this sick and threatening language was followed by a ddos attack against goldstein's website which continues even this hour.
here, where one might have anticipated decency of the larger general community of frisch's supporters, there is instead a tone of, "yea, but we do it for social justice".
for instance, frisch's threats against jeff goldstein's child are equated here with an incident in which a group of militant student anarchists, faces covered and armed with metal barricades, sheilds, helmets and cudgels, organized a physical assault against a pair of military recruiters with the full advance knowlege and non-interferance of the university administration. the anarchist group did not believe that they needed to protect their identities from any repercussions stemming from the assault, so they published a press release. the assumption made by the anarchists who distributed the press release to the mainstream press, was that they need only anticipate advocacy pieces written of their public political act. when a single outside voice, michell malkin, rebuked their actions and published the contents of the press release, with specific instructions to her readership to not use the contact information malliciously, progressives investigated her home address and the personal home addresses of her parents and published them on the internet, accompanied by a campaign of death threats, rape threats and racial slurrs in her inbox and on progressive sites.
so here we see again the progressive left twisted with hatred in reaction to, not persecution, but to critisism of their public political behavior. this sentiment has a glint of totalitarianism in it that i think we should all feel threatened by. particularly as the campaign of hacker-attacks against non-progressive web sites persists.
as the ddos attacks persist, the atmosphere here has moved from a few initial proforma declairations of distaste for the specific wording, if not spirit, of her threats, to a bold defense in which frisch is transposed as the victim of a massive right-wing conspiracy against the movement. one can already identify the nessesary distortions working their way into the narrative where the posters here seem willfully unclear as to whether she was fired due to pressure against the school or whether they should take frisch's word for it that she electively resigned. frisch herself is allowed beat her chest over the ddos attack and suggest that the whole thing is a frame-up without comment...
"Sure will be interesting if and when protein wisdom ever gets up and running again. Methinks Jeff took the site offline himself - it sure is convenient for him to be the only one with the raw data. I think. Can someone really knock out your site for DAYS?!? "
i would suggest that any loss of bandwidth is of marginal value as compared to a sacrifice of the truth or decency. please, if you intend to threaten a mans child with rape and murder, and proceed without apology to rewrite the history of the event so that it redoubles the attack against a wider enemy "other", at least release the website from the ddos attack. you do not need to keep godstien's website as a trophy
Posted by jummy | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:03 PM
I'm now beginning to suspect that the prior commenter's name really is 'Jimmy", and he just hasn't managed to spell it correctly yet.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:09 PM
And 122: Absolutely. One of my better high-school date memories was being out with R. at V. and having the adult couple at the next table ask what I was eating, because it looked wonderful. I felt terribly cool being able to say "It's not on the menu -- just ask for a lobster tail."
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:11 PM
It's a little silly, isn't it, guessing that the DoS attacks are to cover up for Frisch? Most DoS attacks take more than a day to prepare, and, anyway, who has her back? I've not seen any sinister lefties defend what she did. We're not even taking her nonsense Object Lesson defense seriously.
If you can't take our word for it that we don't condone trash talk about two year olds, what's the point of engaging us at all? I don't think much of Jeff, but I took him at his word that he didn't condone the attack on Thersites' kid. Of course, I also fell for his aparently half-hearted condemnation of the aborted bitchphd outing. I don't remember now, why was that half-hearted?
Posted by Nobody | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:15 PM
125- Cute. My cousin in Stuy town gets cheesecake from there on a regular basis.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:18 PM
ah, the complete irony, strasmangelo jones, the complete irony. I realize I didn't fill in the blanks but your take on my comment is/was a bit amusing.
Posted by Victim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:20 PM
so which one of these trolls are we planning on keeping? I vote not for jummy.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:21 PM
Victim is at least arch, which is something.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:22 PM
I've heard of strawmen, but this is like you're playing your own show of Liberal Puppets in your head:
jummy's right hand: Someone set us up an insult!
jummy's left hand: We support this insult and do declare that we shall defend it.
jummy's right hand: Dear left hand, you are indeed part of the modern left!
jummy's left hand: Oh, I loves me some protestors at UC Santa Cruz! I'm going to send hate mail to a protestor!
jummy's right hand: NOOO left hand STOP! Malkin said we weren't supposed to harass people bad progressive left hand!
those of us not in jummy's head: ??!??!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:24 PM
whaddya say, Victim? We promise to be meaner to you from now on. But you'll have to wait a few days for the fruit basket--I feel a little burned by the other Trolls Who Didn't Stay.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:24 PM
Mm, cheesecake. Where's the cheesecake? These people have no social manners whatsoever.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:26 PM
131 should be read in a Ralph Wiggum voice for best effect.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:26 PM
123: man, take a chill pill. nobody here is defending what's-her-name. Sorry your clubhouse is broken, but why must you punish me? I wasted valuable seconds of my life scanning your comment and deciding not to read it. No waffles. I blame the vast right wing conspiracy.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:27 PM
Who are these people, and what are they doing in our note-taking thread?
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:27 PM
What is this whole thing about anyway? I have an inkling that we should all be very ashamed for even thinking about it.
Let's talk about David Bowie.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:29 PM
I just find it odd that the topic is such an "unspoken thing that nobody ever talks about" other than to say "taking notes are important".
This may be a humanities/sciences difference. I remember being taught how to take notes several times.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:30 PM
132: I know, I had hopes for one from the other batch. First he was all cranky and then he started kidding around about cake. But he never came back and I was sad -- I'd hoped for some cake-based bridgebuilding.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:30 PM
How you turn my world, you precious thing.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:30 PM
87: I'm sure this is true of Oxford (and I've heard it before) but it is very much not true of American universities, which are all about the lectures.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:30 PM
its really dissapointing to see that none of you want to make this right. it seems that appeals to concience are wasted here.
what a shame this all is.
Posted by jummy | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:31 PM
David Bowie once threatened to kill my kids. But did I complain? I heard he never took notes in class and still aced all his exams. Because he's wicked smart, David Bowie is.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:31 PM
The best thing I know about David Bowie is that his real name was David Jones, but he had to change it because the guy from the Monkees was too popular and he was afraid of confusing people.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:32 PM
It's true. David Jones, on the other hand, took copious notes and also did very well in his studies. But he never threatened to kill my children. In that light, my retaliation against David Jones looks to be entirely unfounded.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:35 PM
so here we see again the progressive left twisted with hatred because where are my FUCKING WAFFLES?!!!
Posted by the progressive left | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:35 PM
I loved the part in Labyrinth where Sarah arranges a DoS attack on Jareth's goblin palace.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:36 PM
And he never looked so beautiful as when he was walking out the door. (Or so Toni Colette as Mrs David-B-kinda said in Velvet Goldmine.)
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:36 PM
Because he's wicked smart, David Bowie is.
6'20" and he killed for fun.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:36 PM
That is, D/avid B/owie once threatened to kill my kids. Nobody wants a lawsuit.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:37 PM
I was going to do Davy Jones as a Botticelli person, but I chose Sergey Kirov instead.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:38 PM
Jummy is correct. We, The Left, should send JG's poor, wronged child a copy of Mercer Mayer's marvellously illustrated Nightmare in my Closet, which is all about imaginary fears and has the bonus! feature that the child vanquishes the monster by exercising his second-amendment rights. It really is the least we could do, since I'm sure that JG's many fans and supporters are showering the poor, traumatized child with comforting gifts even as we speak.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:38 PM
He raped like 300 bears.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:38 PM
But first, I want cake. Because, you know, priorities.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:39 PM
You know, Davy Jones looks to be making quite a comback in the new Pirates of the Carribean movie.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:40 PM
I am going to be near V. tonight, B. But I don't think that helps you.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:40 PM
Plus he even looks kinda hot in that Dancing in the Street video, while Jagger looks like a lizard on cialis.
He killed my kids, though.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:42 PM
155: That's actually Cthulhu doing a Davy Jones impression.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:43 PM
156: No, it doesn't! And now you're just rubbing my face in it! Rubbing my face in the delicious pastry! Just like all you people on the left always do, with your pie-throwing and your French-loving!
Have a piece for me, wouldja?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:43 PM
157: I really kind of love that video -- those two dried up evil little homunculi, too old and too rich to care what they look like, just having fun. I'm not up enough on rock history/gossip to know if they're really particularly friends, but the video looks as if they are.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:44 PM
jummy jummy jummy I've got loving in my tummy.
Stick around jummy and be our troll. The other candidates have departed. You win.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:44 PM
158: You would realize that I already knew that if you read my blog, mcmc.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:44 PM
162: oh sorry. falling behind in my blogreading. Actually, I usually do read your blog.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:46 PM
Cthulhu! I should go see that movie tonight.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:47 PM
me too. but I just went to B's site and got all spoiled.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:49 PM
Oh, like it was going to have a plot anyway.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:51 PM
Hey, I warned you about the spoilers. Anyway, there are lots of weird plot points I didn't give away. Plus, don't you kind of need some popcorn?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:52 PM
the first movie's plot was airtight in its intricate airtight intricacies, what with the cursed gold and the blood of the curse, and the keira knightley.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:54 PM
In this one, she even cross-dresses, text!
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:55 PM
I'm hoping for less Orlando Bloom, and not because I resent pretty men, but because he is a soul sucking energy void.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:55 PM
Keira Knightley bugs me. Or maybe it's just the character in this one.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:56 PM
cross dressing could be nice, but in as much as it entails more and not less clothing, I've got reservations about it.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:57 PM
I'd do Kiera Knightley.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:57 PM
173: You know that sort of thing confuses Urple.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:58 PM
Yes, i need popcorn, and I also need some Johnny Depp/Captain Jack Sparrow in my weekend.
To show us why men should wear makeup.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:58 PM
Alas, I believe it is true that there is no nudity in this film. It's PG, Text. Demons and throat-slitting = good. Naked girls = bad.
Also, "inasmuch" is one word.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:58 PM
I like her. She's got jolly eyes.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:58 PM
Orlando is a straight man for Johnny. IYKWIM.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:59 PM
It's good to keep Urple guessing.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 4:59 PM
I'm thinking you're wrong, B, and the term can be three words or one, but I can't be bothered to look anything up.
But I do know it's "Keira."
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:00 PM
Whatever. If people insist on having weird names, they can't expect to have them spelled properly.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:01 PM
Speaking of names. How is it that Johnny Depp gets away with being 40-something and still being called Johnny and still being incredibly hot, rather than risible?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:03 PM
#28 (Deb Frisch)
All of your commentary at Protein Wisdom is cached and still available for public viewing, in case you didn't know. You got really sleazy all by yourself with the "Cuntasleaza Rice" epithets and your nasty tyke references and begging - BEGGING - to be banned. You were only trying to top yourself when you went overboard with the sexual insults aimed at the baby.
People at PW made fun of your multiple personalities, and it looks like you could not stand being marginalized. You were trying so damn hard to be gross. They were just not paying you enough attention, and for someone like you, even bad attention is good, eh? (Analyze that, why don't you?) Well, now you've got attention for your depraved comments about a baby - and maybe now you're finally satisfied in your sick little mind.
I'd suggest you stop shoring up your meager defenses with the "poor little ole me" sob story - because it won't wash. All the games you played and the comments you made are all available for public viewing. And unless you are going to claim that Jeff snuck into Google headquarters and "embellished" Googles caches, you're gonna have to 'fess up.
And you can quit slinking over to Ace's place too, to beg for favors. Your multiple personalities are all over the place: whining a sob story here at unfogged, defiant pseudo-martyr posting at your place; and "please help me" begging at Ace's and Blackfive's. It's all so pathetic and unhinged.
Posted by Redhead Infidel | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:05 PM
Jeff is a dick. No two ways about it. He's thin-skinned, he's overbearing, obnoxious, hypocritical, weak, he's all those things and more. LIMIT YOUR ATTACKS TO JEFF AND NO ONE WILL BE OUTRAGED.
Deb attacked his child. There is no excuse and no defense, and she deserves to be shunned for it. Instead you're coddling her. She's literally crazy, there is something wrong with her and she needs help, not pats on the back and people trying to hide what she did by flipping it around onto Jeff.
Posted by Interested | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:07 PM
(I think she's gone, Redhead)
This is all so not-jolly. Redhead just harshed my David Bowie, Keira Knightley buzz. If you want to stay, you have to submit to being our pet troll. No more of this killing children stuff.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:08 PM
If people insist on having weird names, they can't expect to have them spelled properly.
Is that so?
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:08 PM
Dude, is Unfogged the only blog that linked to this blogspat? Are all the other blogs DOSed, down, or not have comments? Why is everyone coming HERE for God's sake?
Also: Johnny Depp is really really hott. Orlando and Keira should be written into bit parts.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:14 PM
187- FL linked it in Frisch's comments, before they were closed.
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:23 PM
I've been taking notes on every comment and my brain hurts. Will this be on the test?
Unfogged should adopt a pet goat or two. (Bush is still trying to get rid of his.) They do a good job at triming the lawn, the nannies produce excellent cheese, and goats are wicked good at butting the trolls over the mountain.
I want a savory crepe with goat cheese and jerk goat. After that, a thousand-pastry dessert
carttruck for my dining pleasure.Posted by md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:24 PM
They're showing up because her comment got linked somewhere -- it's not the post that's getting the attention.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:24 PM
Heh.
I knew that psychological issues ran rampant on the left a long time ago.
But now, having seen first hand how bad it is, I'll probably never allow another liberal to be alone with my Grandchildren.
We have one sick puppy here. Of course, she was the one being "abused".
Heheheheh! Riiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt!
Denial isn't a river in Egypt, or even in Sudan, honey. Quit digging the hole deeper.
Posted by jefferson101 | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:25 PM
I don't like Orlando, either. I don't understand why he's the teen heartthrob. He's not that great an actor, and he's not that hot. Are they just out of young actors to thrust upon the public?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:25 PM
Deb is a "freak" as asked by someone above; this was not a one time event. She has a track record of harrassing right of center blogs.
From 2005
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:nj4Kc_jaiQcJ:www.professorbainbridge.c om/2005/02/ucla_faculty_di.html+DEb+FRISCH&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk& amp;cd=2
From 2004
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:Z7Tn0VxtdmUJ:crookedtimber.org/2004/12 23/sinful-inequalities+DEb+FRISCH&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd= 6
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:LJmcPsNWFFUJ:www.villainouscompany.com /vcblog/archives/2004/12/supporting_the.html+DEb+FRISCH&hl=en&gl=us &ct=clnk&cd=14
There are many more. Appears most comments are against god and white males. She has repeatedly tried to outrage with her comments.
Of course, that is nothing new for the new left. She is the face of what many of them are becoming; Kos, DU, Air America, Deaniacs, the anti-Liebermans.
They called down the thunder, now they have it. And good luck with all of those prizes...
Posted by Shorse | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:25 PM
186: I was wondering if anyone would get that.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:35 PM
Didn't Frisch troll Crooked Timber years ago? Same person?
Yes. She was banned. A complete pain in the ass.
Posted by funicular | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:36 PM
I was hoping we'd finally get that thunder we'd been asking for.
Would anyone like to share more thoughts about David Bowie?
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:40 PM
cool, promises of S&M sessions from the regulars at Unfogged.....you guys are great. Thanks FL for posting a link here from debfrisch.com website in her comments section. Without you I'd never realize to what great lengths the lovers of desert foods, Bowie, policing grammar, and sadomasochism fans you all are. It's cool to see everyone one the same wavelength...almost like the vast right wing conspiracy. And, my true thanks for being anointed troll status in your lovely comments section....the powers that be here are truley gracious.
Help, Help, I'm being repressed.
Posted by Victim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:42 PM
Hell. I thought Victim was the one who could spell.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:45 PM
no, I'm doing a bit of group therapy and introduced something to bolster your self esteem.
Posted by Victim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:47 PM
Jackmormon, I am here because I followed a link to this thread pointing out the commentary (and specifically, Deb's comment). Would you all prefer we post the comments at our own sites and tell our readers not to click the link?
Look, you guys are missing the point. Jeff Goldstein is used to attacks from you. Nobody would have cared particularly if Deb had stuck to normal trolling (why this appears to be a hobby of hers, I have no idea). But making sexual comments about a two year-old child and saying things like "If your kid gets JonBeneted I won't care," is beyond the pale and is indicative of a very sick mind. Think about it--WOULD YOU make such comments? How would you react if someone said that to you (if you're a parent)? I have my own stalker (completely apolitical, just a vandal) who has made similar comments about my daughter and I assure you, I know exactly how pissed off JeffG must be. Apparently you don't. I'm rather surprised (well, not really--more like amused) at your obvious inability to put yourselves in the position of another human being, even if he IS a "paste-eater" or wingnut or whatever.
To try to turn it around and say tough shit, he says blah blah blah, is ridiculous. I know he hasn't ever made comments about anyone's child--I challenge anyone to find where he has. In fact, please do find where any "wingnut" has made such comments, and I can assure you such a person WILL be shunned--not just because of politics, but because bringing children (or other family, but particularly children) into it is WRONG and SICK.
I can't believe you'd gloss over the sexualization of a two year-old child and make this all about Jeff "the paste-eater," whatever you think of him. See comment #184 again, please. At least that person gets it.
Posted by Beth | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:47 PM
114 -- you don't mean that corny cheesecakery do you?
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:48 PM
200!
Posted by Witchsmeller | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:48 PM
be gentle. he'll develop.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:48 PM
Shit!
Posted by Witchsmeller | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:48 PM
Ack! You are! Veniero's, that's the name! Can't stand that place. The kitsch is unbearable.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:51 PM
Beth, that's the lamest 200 ever. Write 3,000 words about David Bowie and post your essay in the next hour.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:52 PM
You mock my childhood! Come on, it's not kitschy. Or, at least it's not selfconsciously kitschy -- all that stuff is there because they like it, not because it's funny. And the pastry is really good.
(Have they gone downhill? I haven't been there much of late because it's way out of my way.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:53 PM
I blame LB for the fact that I went and read that stupid comment thread. Also for the fact that I am now going to point out that everyone who is so outraged about the threat!!! to JG's child!!! seems completely unaware of the fact that said threat was retracted. What's really obscene, from the threatening-kids-standpoint, is how many people seem to welcome such a thing as an opportunity to stoke their sense of political outrage. I mean, honestly, people. If you think that said threats were (1) real and (2) truly upsetting, wouldn't you react by doing something other than worrying over "the left" and silly blogwars and trolling blogs and sputtering over how unfair and unjust it all is?
I know, I know, I'm only encouraging them. Maybe I should go get my own cake, b/c obviously no one is going to bring me any.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:53 PM
There was a kitschy bakery in my own youth, called Webb's. Mr. B. once broke my heart by pointing out that it was horribly kitschy and not actually all that good when I took him there after raving about how marvellous it was and how we went there every Sunday after church.
Another time he put my Velveteen Rabbit in the washing machine and shrunk it.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:55 PM
What'd I do?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:55 PM
You said something about the post or someone's comment being linked in one of DF's threads and I went looking for it. Goddamn curiosity.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:57 PM
Ah. Gotta watch out for that. Kills cats.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:58 PM
It's more like this site has pretty much nothing to do with the nasty comments, Beth.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:58 PM
Am I too lazy to go to the grocery store and buy cake?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:59 PM
are you threatening to kill my cat?
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 5:59 PM
I had cheesecake this morning for breakfast.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:00 PM
#184 and 200, I agree.
This is on the verge of escaping the sandbox (blogosphere) and going mainstream. If that happens, her original comments will only be the beginning of the story. Her amazingly insincere apology ("The point of resigning is that it is something I was thinking of doing anyway") , the DOS attack, and the "Yes, but" posts from the left side of the 'sphere will be the meat.
If it happens - and I'd give it at least a 50/50 shot - it could do serious harm to the progressive voices in the net.
Posted by Svolock | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:00 PM
That kind of threat is actionable, you know. Text should contact law enforcement and file a civil suit. Because killing cats is SICK and WRONG.
Ok, I'm off to buy cake.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:00 PM
Kills cats.
Technically, God kills the cats... wait, nevermind. Wrong aphorism.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:00 PM
The happy fun kitty approves of my disapproval of cat killing.
Keep the trolls warm until I return.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:01 PM
217
Now this is the stupidest comment in the threath sofar!
Posted by Witchsmeller | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:02 PM
"thread"
Posted by Witchsmeller | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:03 PM
When teh Real World gets ahold of this information about LizardBreath threatening to kill my cat, the liberal blogosphere is gonna be in a whole world of pain. For it wasn't just LizardBreath, but everything she stands for who threatened my cat. And it wasn't just my cat she threatened, it was freedom.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:04 PM
Neutral reportage + "yuck, that's a gross thing to write when trolling" + 200 comments about cheesecake, the hotness of Johnny Depp and David Bowie + irritation at swarms of driveby denouncers = complicity?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:05 PM
have they gone downhill?
Wouldn't know, I haven't been there in about 10 years -- I think last time I was there was while I was cooking at Veselka and was acquainting myself with all the neighborhood bakeries -- maybe I have been once in the intervening time but it would have been by accident. I don't really remember all the places but that one stands out in my memory as jive. There was a good German bakery on 2nd Ave in addition to some not-so-good ones.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:06 PM
Speaking of killing cats, Witchsmeller, what have you done with our mistress Scott?
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:06 PM
Svolock has what I'm looking for in a troll. At this point in the troll try-outs, I think it's Svolock's position to lose.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:07 PM
You used to cook at Veselka? I used to eat there -- 10 years ago would have been about right.
Do you have anything against Veniero's other than the decor? I really like the pastry.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:07 PM
You guys are sick. You really don't get it, do you?
Color me unsurprised. Contrast that with someone like Jeralyn Merritt, who, while nothing like you mouth-breathers, is on "your side" but wants nothing to do with anyone who sexualizes children.
And BTW, bitch, about the retraction? She can "retract," but the fact remains that this woman obviously considers children sexual objects. That is disgusting.
Posted by Beth | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:11 PM
nobody wants to sexualize any children, Beth. We only want to sex Mutombo.
Now the essay, please.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:13 PM
Jack, surely you knew that wasn't going to produce any kind of happy result. And Beth, you're going to have to step it up to edge out Svolok. That "sandbox (blogosphere)" defining his terms bit? Trolling gold.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:13 PM
96: "Rarely do we get a true picture of what modern-day leftist politics really is. Bitter, mean, nasty, intolerant."
"Rule 42! The oldest rule in the book!"
If you rarely get this picture, and I think that in fact you rarely do, then it is not "a true picture of what modern-day leftist politics really is". It's one person who is not typical or representative.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:15 PM
without the essay I'm not even going to consider Beth's application.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:18 PM
First prize in the essay contest is a ride on this.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:20 PM
229: yes. yes we are. so so sick of hearing from you, Beth, you. this is my song of sick of Beth!
Would you all prefer we post the comments at our own sites and tell our readers not to click the link?
if only.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:23 PM
I'm waaaay late on this, but LB, 114: I love that place. The only thing that beats their cannoli is the marzipan breast. (What else could that be attempting to resemble, with the cherry on top of the creamy dome, smoothly topped with white marzipan?) We could definitely do that.
Posted by A White Bear | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:24 PM
LizardBreath, honey, I don't "troll." I've brought ID, I've addressed you all politely, despite your silly responses. I don't care about your essays, applications, or "stepping it up." Even those who didn't want to leave real email addresses were polite (presumably because they figured they'd be trolled by you, based on what's seen here).
Posted by Beth | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:25 PM
Ah, the non-troll troll bit. I like it Beth, I like it. You just might be troll material after all. I think the ball's in Svolock's court now.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:27 PM
See, I think Clown is just being snotty about the vulgar decor. I have no objection to vulgarity so long as the pastry is good.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:28 PM
Calling us trolls is also a pretty sweet troll move. I think we've all been underestimating Beth.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:28 PM
People really do underestimate the value of complete, literate sentences in effective communication. Poor jummy upthread wasn't going to manage to annoy anyone.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:32 PM
Oh sweet Jeebus. WTF?
(1) Let's be honest: Beth seems sane, if wrong in her description of...our relationship to Deb, what we've said, everything, etc.
(2) The rest are...wierd. I'm actually kind of hoping that "they" are really a "he" that's off his meds, and who can't get a prescription till Monday. Maybe like a certain ild-chay ee-fray commenter.
(3) In as much as I have no idea how crazy you'd have to be to actually get banned by CT (Jeebus--their comment threads look like that after bannings?), but I'm pretty sure it's in the general area of "very," it's hard hard to hold Deb responsible. Same goes for the ild-chay guy(s). So we should all agree that this thread is all B's fault. And that, as B's an academic, and thus representative of all academics, we should gracefully concede that D-Ho's probably right.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:32 PM
Plus she's still got about twenty minutes to finish the essay. Beth, I think I'm pulling for you in this contest.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:32 PM
236: I think those are supposed to be St. Agatha's breasts. In the course of her martyrdom her breasts were amputated, and she is shown in paintings holding them out on a little tray. But god is merciful, and now they are delicious pastries.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:36 PM
I, for one, am about to consider this cake a sexual object. It's pink, even. And I gave the first piece to PK because he has such an adorable, sweet, round, yummy little bottom.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:38 PM
This has been a very confusing thread to follow. If I've got the story right, some lefty with a serious troll disease made some very nasty, over-the-top comments at a pastry-eater's website, then righties with serious troll disease swelled to the bursting point with Outrage (TM) and Righteous Indignation (TM) and proceeded to expel huge stinking gusts of both of them in this and other threads. Meanwhile, the regular community of this site indicated their displeasure for the original offence, then picked up on the pastry-eating theme and ran with it. Also, David Bowie, Johnny Depp, and - what? Oh, that's PASTE eating? Sorry. Never mind.
Posted by LA Confidential Pantload | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:41 PM
If St. Agatha is the patroness of breast cancer victims, I'm gonna giggle inappropriately.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:41 PM
245: Setting out to support 242 since about two minutes ago.
(But Tim, c'mon. You gotta give Beth a few nutso points for being quite so hung up on the whole child molestation angle--especially given that the so-called threats seem not in any way to have actually said any such thing.)
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:42 PM
247: she is, Cala.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:43 PM
247: Giggle away.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:43 PM
Okay, time for dinner and non-insanity.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:43 PM
I fucking love my faith. That's almost as good as St. Blaise.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 07- 8-06 6:45 PM
244: Thank you, mcmc! This solves a mystery. I keep going in and just pointing and giggling, but now I have a name for them. If you're wrong, this could be painfully embarrassing, but we'll try it out anyway.
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