My first thought on dessert was something berry-based, since that would be summery and seasonal, but I don't know where to go beyond that. Also, if it's hot out, a bisque might be a little warm. Maybe an interesting salad if he's trying to go for fancy instead?
If he wants soup, I'd suggest gazpacho. Bisque is all kinds of wrong for summer weather. Also, while salmon sounds tasty, the sauce sounds... not good.
The salmon sounds a little busy, but if he's made it before and it's good, then I'll figure he knows what he's doing. On interesting salads, I'm fond of baby greens (or whatever lettuce you like, really), blue cheese, walnuts, and chopped apple. And on a hot night, berries and a little whipped cream are nice, or maybe just some sorbet.
Blackberries with creme anglaise, or somesuch, make a lovely dessert. Also flan with berries or, to go along with the curry idea, rose-infused cream with berries, or anything that matches up berries or melon with mint or lemon verbena or rose or scented geranium. I can totally provide cooking directions if this sounds interesting.
The salmon dish sounds rich-ish, for salmon. Therefore I would skip the bisque. Plus you want to think of texture: soup = soft, salmon = soft. Berry-type desserts = soft. I, personally, *adore* summer tomatoes (real ones, from a garden) and if you can get ahold of those with some fresh basil and tarragon you really can't go wrong with a simple tomato salad. Or I have a fabulous recipe for grilled peach salad: marinate peaches in a marinade made of jalapeno, basil, ginger, lime juice, salt, and olive oil; grill them; serve them over greens--arugula, watercress, basil--with a little dressing of olive oil, champagne or rice vinegar, salt and pepper.
If he's not feeling secure about the sauce, you can't go wrong poaching salmon in a little court bullion. Simmer a carrot, an onion, some peppercorns, a bay leaf, and anything else leafy in the fridge that's getting a little old (the carrot tops? Some parsley? The limp outer leaves of the lettuce?) in a pot of water for half an hour or so, and then simmer the salmon in a pan in the broth you just made for 10-15 minutes, depending on how thick it is. A little hollandaise, or some good mayonnaise, and it couldn't be better.
I, personally, *adore* summer tomatoes (real ones, from a garden) and if you can get ahold of those with some fresh basil and tarragon you really can't go wrong with a simple tomato salad.
If you can get good tomatoes, a caprese salad- tomatoes, fresh basil, fresh (of buffalo if you've got the cash) mozzerella, topped with olive oil and balsamic vinegar.
It is easy, it works, you can do it in cute, individual ramekins or ovenproof stonewear bowls.
Best part, get some heavy whipping cream, throw in a few pinches of sugar, and start whipping with a big whisk, in front of her, as the thing cooks. Total time, 30 minutes. Yes, it might be lovely to have the dessert already prepared.
But this is a mistake. What you want is to have the dinner prepared, and then allow her to watch you make dessert.
I like salmon with cream sauce myself. My boyfriend has made me salmon with martini sauce, which is lovely. The sauce is basically a very light cream sauce with a few juniper berries and good gin, deglazed with a really good vermouth. Fabulous.
The bisque is too heavy for summer. I'd either go with gazpacho or just skip the soup course.
I would probably broil or grill tuna steaks that were marinated in a ginger-garlic-orange-soy sauce. I've found that maple goes really well on salmon, and then you can grill it.
Over at Be/lle's blog, there's a recipe for an excellent calatested tart with cherries and white chocolate that would make a great dessert.
Your menu, though, sounds great for November. Just not August.
I was once involved in a heated argument with a friend who sent back a Waldorf Salad at a restaurant. I said he was being a dick. He said I was feigning class consciousness solely on the basis of having waited tables before. We no longer keep in touch with any regularity. Please people: let's not ruin this lovely thread with a Waldorf War. I've seen one before, and it ain't pretty.
If so: figs and goat cheese with a little honey, wrapped in prosciutto into little packets and skewered.
I like the suggestion of the salad nicoise above--can be nice and cool. If you get a very nice tuna steak, you can sear the tuna on the grill and leave the center raw and let it cool before combining with the other ingredients, then when the charcoal has lost it's immediate scorching heat, grill the fig skewers.
Pair the above two with a nice rose (maybe sparkling?).
Then, dessert: s'mores (get good chocolate) and coffee ice cream, paired with a nice cognac.
The above is nice because you can prepare everything in advance, and just do a few whiz-bang things at the end to impress.
I suggest some of these- nothing says "I care" like a soup with velveeta, boullion cubes, and frozen broccoli.
(Via rude pundit, who notes the of the lasagne recipe's ingredients- Prego diluted with water- "because jarred Prego is just too rich.")
Seriously? You want him to make a salad with hard-boiled eggs, potatoes, and anchovies? What if she's like, wtf is wrong with your salad? Cala's on the right, non-anchovy track.
I'm hoping this goes without saying, but has he cleared food issues? I once made a lovely salmon dish for a girl (now my ex) and discovered that she hated salmon.
That should have been my first clue.
(Second should have been when she described herself as vegetarian but one who ate chicken regularly. Ooh, I hate that. Vegetarians don't eat meat! That's why they're called 'vegetarians' and not 'vegetables and sometimes chicken-arians!' Clearly I still have some baggage around this.)
I recently had my new favorite hot weather salad: watermelon, onions, heirloom tomatoes and feta cheese. (And I think some basil.) Tremendous. Eat a Waldorf some other time. Here's a recipe that's very close to what we had - this one omits tomatoes but you really shouldn't.
I've always wanted to try to make a Summer Berry Pudding. Wouldn't recommend an untested recipe for a date, but the America's Test Kitchen/Cook's Illustrated recipe looked good. Sadly, it's not online but thier tips are available here and a recipe that could be used as a starting point is here.
I agree that a bisque is probably too heavy, although I once had a delicious cold tomato bisque with avocado ice.
Walnuts and apples and blue cheeses make great salads but are totally all fall-like. It's August, real tomatoes are available, and are delicious, so use them! With fresh basil. I can't remember where Becks is encamped at the moment, but if her Lothario is in NYC, it's so damn easy to find exquisitely fresh mozarella made that morning or the day before by some guy in his garage down the block, so use that too with the tomatoes and basil.
Figs are lovely too, but it seems a little early, they're usually at their best in late summer and early fall, in my experience. Use them only if you can get ripe fresh ones from a local source. The ones jetted in from elsewhere usually taste like nothing so much as water.
Nicoise salad is a great great summer dish, but to me is more of a picnic dish, not an impressive dinner type deal. Save it for the following weekend outing to the park. Fish is a good choice, and I would recommend grilling if at all possible, no sauce necessary other than a squeeze of lemon, or if you must add a sauce, then something light. Brown sugar and curry sounds too cloying for summer heat. Rice is a nice accompniament. If a fatty fish like salmon, I like serving it with something like rapini or other bitter greens to act as a foil to the richness.
As for dessert, as has been mentioned, something involving summer fruits like berries, stone fruits, or melons with something light and creamy is just the thing.
And remember, you don't want your date stunned into torpitude by the depth and quantity of your offerings. Keep it light, so she'll have some energy left for smooching afterwards.
I second gswift, but would add whip cream (easy with a mixer, though you can get whip cream canister and cartridges, its fun with a squirt bottle of it). I would call it a strawberry shortcake though.
Or if you have a double boiler you can make chocolate covered stawberries pretty easily.
34: That's the joy of seasonal cooking. If you do it right, it's impressive as hell and not terribly difficult, because it's all about the freshness of the ingredients.
36: Um, yeah, I know curry is from India. But brown sugar curry, presumably involving "curry powder"? Not fit for the heat. Not to mention that a fair amount of what we think of as Indian food is actually from the mountainous north, including Pakistan, not from the more tropical regions of that huge and diverse subcontinent.
I refuse to think so ill of my fellow commenters. But salmon with a light sweet curry sauce sounds just fine to me, honestly. Although I totally think that bisque is wrong.
Brown sugar is not light and sweet. And "curry" is basically about as descriptive as "sauce". It doesn't tell you anything about a dish other than that it contains a mixture of spices.
That's why I assumed anyone employing the naked term descriptively was probably using it to denote the use of "curry powder". I'd be delighted to be wrong, however.
34 gets it exactly right. You make the salad all pretty-like -- meaning don't toss it -- and serve yourselves from the same dish. Casual yet romantic, see?
And what's this hive-mind "bisque is too heavy!!" crap? What kind of limp-wristed, pinky-lifting wimps are you people? I'd eat me some bisque right now, right in a big sour dough bowl if I had it.
of course, proper bisque is probably going to need fish stock, which, depending on where you are geographically, can be impossible to find. Might have to order it ahead of time. God forbid you make a seafood bisque with chicken or vegetable broth.
And seriously, the whole idea of not being creepy here is not to look like you're trying to impress. don't make something you usually don't, with many courses, etc. its much better if you're just a good cook, and your girl is coming over one evening to eat together.
Brown sugar and curry sauce does not sound good to me.
Also, if I was going to do something spicy with fish I'd go Thai or I'd go south Indian and use a fish other than salmon. I prefer firm white fish for that sort of thing.
Salmon, to me, doesn't cry out for a 'curry' treatment especially if 'curry' means some generic curry powder which will have spices that will totally overpower the fish.
If I was cooking salmon I'd keep it simple -- fry it in a little butter, squeeze of lemon, etc. Or steam it in a little parcel like Michael Barrett suggests above.
brown sugar is the usual substitute for palm sugar in thai curries. but i'd agree, make a curry with a fish that isn't salmon. i'd probably skip fish if you haven't made it before, meat has a greater margin of error in cooking time. fish is easy to mess up.
Oh, and he needs to do chocolate soufflé for dessert. Made with great chocolate, it's blindingly delicious, and the perceived-difficulty-to-actual-difficulty ratio is through the roof, so she'll be impressed.
It's dead simple. Chop and melt over very low heat 3 oz. chocolate (I like to use Scharffen Berger 70 percent); let cool. Rub two ramekins with butter and dust with sugar (the finely granulated bakers' kind). Separate two eggs and beat the whites until you just get peaks -- gently, don't let it get stiff and dry. Stir the yolks, then about a quarter of the whites, into the chocolate, then fold the chocolate mixture into the remaining whites. Again, this is a time for Casanova to demonstrate his gentle touch. Spoon the stuff into the ramekins and wipe the rim dry so that the crust will go inward as it rises, and bake in a 400-degree oven for about ten minutes, until you have a puffy, dry crust and the center is just past creamy.
For the sauce, I like a blackberry coulis -- basically just the thick juice from mushed-up blackberries. A chinois works best, but a fine sieve will do. If they're really ripe, some marionberries, which are more acidic, will help to focus the flavor; if you can't get those, use a little lemon juice. Puncture the crust and pour in the sauce. Hopefully, the metaphorical value of this gesture will not be lost on her.
Serve with framboise (the raspberry dessert wine, not the beer or the spirit). Really, don't even consider anything else. I recommend Bonny Doon's.
Also, given the relatively narrow margin of error in fish cooking time, you really need to make it on the spot. It can't be prepared earlier and then reheated in the way that a lot of meat dishes can.*
Depending on the anonymous reader's needs,** he may not want to be standing over the stove cooking while his date is there.
* Obviously _some_ fish dishes can. But most can't.
** And whether he is suave and debonair in the kitchen or sweaty and panicking.
I also find the bisque a bit heavy and the salmon sauce a bit strange sounding. cold soup would be better. almost any vegetable is good cooked with chicken broth, onion sauteed in olive oil, and maybe a potato, whizzed in the blender and then combined with yogurt or creme fraiche or whatever. always looks nice because you can put a blob of yogurt on top and some fresh herbs and it looks all fancy. carrot and rosemary? broccoli? tomato and basil salad is great, and the watermelon one sounds nice. anything on the grill: good. the salmon, grilled and topped with herb butter and lemon? fine beans blanched and topped with vinaigrette at the last minute? white fish with lemon caper brown butter? dessert: I second all the fruit-based dessert suggestions and basically the simpler the better. or granita? super easy and good. coffee granita makes a nice pick me up.
I don't find bisque in the summer a problem, but bisque first course + salmon second course is too rich.
For dessert: grilled peaches with a little sweet marsala over the top. Or the limoncello idea was good too, but maybe I'm just a lush- I often have alcohol for dessert.
Go light on the first course and main dish, but dessert is all about seduction. Assuming she isn't allergic or a communist, make chocolate, chocolate, and more chocolate. The mousses or puddings recommended here are all good bets, as they're cold enough for summer.
If you must skip the chocolate, go with one of those sparkling prosecco jello concoctions. With raspberries.
If he wants to make soup he should make a melon or berry soup, fit to be served chilled as a light and delicious first course! Does somewhat limit options for dessert, I guess. Thus, you should instead have some quince brandy.
Also, that salmon doesn't sound too great to me. I suggest: Mussels! Because I, personally, really like them, and eating someone's mussel shows that you really trust that person.
there's a recipe for salmon with Goan curry sauce in Rick Stein's book, which I suspect is what this guy's after. It is not bad, although salmon is fundamentally a poof's fish*.
Bisque isn't a good idea, basically ever. Shellfish soups are not worth bothering with and greasy creamy soups are bad for the digestion. I would buy a terrine of some sort. Or maybe salt cod and peppers.
Crepes suzette are usually the way to go for dessert if you can handle them.
I would also add that in most American houses I have visited in summer, the fucking air conditioning is turned up so high that many people would welcome a cup of chocolat chaud and a hearty warming stew to ward off the chill.
Roasted red pepper soup is really good and doesn't need greasy cream, though dsquared's opinion that shellfish soups aren't worth bothering with makes me think he isn't to be trusted, since, like, bouillabaise is awesome.
But bouillabaise is mostly spiny fish rather than actually shelled ones. Anyway, dsquared's right about salmon. You can't get it fresh, unless it's been farmed, in which case you might just as well stew some pink flannel for her, and you can embroider hearts and flowers on the flannel if you want to impress her more.
Something like coronation chicken is light, not, in America, corny, and fairly easy to prepare. And if it is corny, tell her it's poulet a l'Indienne: in any case, chicken breast in a lightly spiced yoghourt-ish sauce. Spend time and money buying good chicken rather than fancy sauce ingredients.
It's not just about giving the appearance of spontaneity and naturalness: a seduction meal shouldln't leave you feeling incapable of any exercise afterwards. Three courses may be pushing it.
in any case, chicken breast in a lightly spiced yoghourt-ish sauce Um. In the sense that chicken Marengo is fried chicken with a bit of parsley. Coronation chicken is fine, but the human body can only ingest so much of it at a single sitting. You'd need plenty of plain salad and bread if you want to use it for a main course.
44 had me laughing so hard my GF came in to my room to see if I knew why there was a dog barking next to the house. Apparently when I'm laughing myself sick, through a door I sound like a dog barking at something. Who knew?
I'm pretty sure the recipe I ahve for bouillabaisse (in one of the Cordon Bleu books) has some shellfish in it. Also, octopus and all kinds of ugly spiny fish.
Matt, I think the point is not that bouillabaisse can't have shellfish in it, but that it can't only have shellfish in it. As far as I know it can include anything to hand, plus rascasse.
No time to make food suggestions now, but I will just second/third/whatever the recommendation that the first two parts of the meal be prepared in advance. I've been cooking for almost 20 years, and my guests are the least high-pressure, least-picky people you can imagine, and I still keep relearning that it is better for the dinner and the friendship if there is nothing too distracting going on in the kitchen, food-wise, while company is present.
I think #73 crosses over the fine line between "stylishly simple and elegant" and "quite obviously blagging out of making a proper dessert".
I also heartily disagree with #75. The kitchen is a far friendlier place for one's friends to be and it gives you a decent topic of conversation to prevent baby- or shop-talk (ie, laughing at third degree burns and gasping at flagrant food hygiene breaches). Also note that if you "prepare food ahead of time", then it's gong to be fridge-cool when you serve it and that is IMO more than a little bit common.
The best soup to prepare the way for salmon, would be a chilled potato-leek soup. (This has a French name but I do not remember it.) Curry sauce is not a great choice with salmon according to my preferences but de gustibus. Dessert, berries with crème fraiche?
A Thai restaurant near me serves a salmon curry, so it didn't strike me as weird that someone might be trying it at home.
But it occurs to me that fish is a sort of risky proposition in general if you don't know if she likes fish. A lot of people don't or are picky about how it's prepared.
For dessert, something simple might be a good-quality vanilla ice cream topped with fresh berries and served with shortbread cookies.
Mitch is exactly right, except for thinking that curry isn't a good summer thing. People: curry is FROM INDIA. Where it is often hot. Hello?
This makes no sense at all. None -- think about it -- why would food from a hot region be inappropriate for summer? In a hot region people develop a cuisine suited for eating in hot weather. I for one eat curry primarily in the summer. But then I enjoy sweating.
My first course recommendation is a basil, mozzarella, and watermelon salad. Which I think someone else also recommended. I don't know if people are recommending vichyssoise and bouillabaisse or just talking about them, but these are not good date dinner recommendations.
I also totally second Ben's mussel suggestion. Get a big pot, heat some olive oil and toss in some garlic and lemongrass. When fragrant, add a couple of tablespoons of red curry paste, some white wine, and a can or so of coconut milk. Bring to a simmer, add your mussels, clamp on the lid, and wait three minutes.
I agree with the general thought that bisque sounds too heavy, and that brown sugar sounds funky on salmon. If our correspondant is nervous about this meal, I would suggest that he keep it simple and light, focus on getting the best quality ingredients, and plan a meal that has at most only one element to worry about.
Hows about this menu? Gazpacho, green salad and either seared fillets or steak, and melon and chocolate. Simple, healthy, and delicious!
The problem with salmon is, you have real trouble getting real salmon anymore. You get this pink glutinous stuff which has been farm-raised and dyed to the color they think you like, but which has no proper texture. If you ever get real salmon, which you sometimes can, you will instantly know the difference. And you will instantly know that such a fish doesn't require much in the way of sauces, but has a flavor and integrity all its own; you can roll it in some cracked peppper and rock salt, sear or grill it, and serve it with lemon and dill. In fact, any fish worth eating should stand up nicely to such treatment.
So far as who the real men are, here, the answer is evidently Cala and alameida---in summertime, real men cook whole meals on a charcoal grill. This is how you show off skills without looking like you're expending unseemly effort; grilling over charcoal requires an appreciation of high heat, the understanding that every fire is different, and that its idiosyncrasies need respect, that you can't just bull ahead and do what you want to do, but need to figure out where the hot spots are, and work them to good purpose.
Grilling seems to me to imply effortlessness---it's outdoors, there's no pots and pans to clean up, so no muss no fuss. If you can do it, it's the very definition of casual. As for risk of sweatiness, I think kitchens in the summertime are just as risky as outdoors. Depends where you locate your grill, and how high you have your air conditioning turned up, of course.
Grilling isn't trying any harder than all of these 'make it as frennnnsch as possible' suggestions. Grilling is easy, you can both enjoy the evening outside and sip wine (or a good beer) and chat, and then you have lovely grilled meat. You can also cook corn on the grill.
Damn. Now I wants me some fine steak.
One other thing: you can cook something new, but you really shouldn't try to cook beyond your abilities on a date where you want to be cool and relaxed, not wondering what goes in next in your frennnnnnnncsh sauce requiring perfect timing.
Cold cucumber/yogurt soup, tomato and basil salad, for dessert peaches in a puree of raspberries with cream, or possibly a nice mango sorbet for dessert, and for the main course, I dunno. Chicken kebab or something.
Our mysterious correspondant might live in a apartment with no terrace and a dinky kitchen.
If he can grill and has a place to do it, that would be a great idea. (Skirt steak, marinated in olive oil, salt, pepper, lime juice, and massive quantities of chopped onions, yum.) If his kitchen isn't a poorly lit, hot, nasty little alley, then he might be cool hanging out there with his date watching him put the finishing touches on the next round.
Wow, that sounds like a relatively elaborate meal. This guy must know what he's doing, I hope. I've found cooking to impress to be a disasterous strategy if one can't actually cook and the food comes out awful. (Actually, this can potentially be endearing, says some women I know, but only if the guy has scored some seriously big points already in other ways.)
Anyway, all this fancy cooking makes me a little suspicious that Becks' acquaintance might be gay. Also, I'm starting to wonder whether my 12-day-old baby boy might be gay. I know he's still a little young to be sure, but he has a few distinctly effeminate gestures and posturing.
Yes, he should grill if he can. When I met my wife I couldn't. so I didn't start off this way, but there was strong incentive to learn. If he's done it at least several times and has any kind of outdoor space at all, it's what I would advise.
Our mysterious correspondant might live in a apartment with no terrace and a dinky kitchen.
This is true (he could have my kitchen, for example). I just wanted to say that if you can grill, grilling isn't trying too hard; you can also sear meat in a grill pan.
But he sounds like he has at least some cooking skills and some equipment, since newbies don't try bisques.
Skirt steak is appropriate for fajitas, but otherwise it's not a high-quality cut. If Lothario can grill, he should consider doing tuna, and while he surely knows that searing tuna over a charcoal chimney is superior way to prepare it, he might want to consider using the surface of the grill and making it just a little more done than he knows is right.
Tuna is higher-risk than steak, though. Tuna you basically ought to eat rare, and not everybody likes that. But if you cook it too much, it tastes like that stuff you get in a can. Steak, there's some margin of acceptability extending up to medium.
Becks is apparently convinced because alameida and I are men.
Tuna is easy, but tricky if someone doesn't like fish or rare fish. And lots of people who aren't food-inclined don't like fish because most of the fish they have had has sucked.
Well-done tuna defeats the purpose of tuna. Steak, of course, has the whole anti-red-meat problem, which is a different kind of problem but easier to suss out.
All the grilling talk is out of place, given that our hero appears to be a New Yorker. Odds are he has no place to grill. And tuna isn't all that unforgiving -- it needs to be a little rare, but even cooked through it's tasty. Broiled tuna sounds like a fine idea. And probably manly enough to satisfy the British Isles contingent. (Whatis that? Salmon is gay? Bears eat salmon -- they aren't gay. (No, not those kind of bears. You people are hopeless.))
I would suggest, again given the heat and the fact that this appears to be an attempt at a show-off meal, having a pitcher of cocktails made in the fridge -- something summery and refreshing. (I've been drinking a lot of margaritas at home lately, but anything summery is good.) If she's going to be watching you cook, having something a little more interesting than a beer or a glass of wine to hand her when she arrives should get points. (Assuming, of course, she drinks, and that you can figure out how to mix a tasty cocktail rather than something foul.)
I'm kinda with the British Islanders on the salmon, not that I would exactly call it gay, since I don't do that, but it is a little prissy. It's the fish you eat when you're a kid and you're intimidated by real fish and ew ew ew what's that thing in a shell and you're eating something with suckers?
I do have a sense of humor. I was taken aback in the other thread, I think, by the possibility of 'Smasher getting laid. Thou Shalt Not Go There, and all that.
That kind of thing. I'm not fond of sangria myself, but I understand there are reasonable people who are.
(You know, we really don't have quite enough information to give advice here. Is this a seduction -- that is are they not yet involved, but he's hoping they will be -- or is it an 'early in the relationship nice dinner'? In the first case, KISS. Good ingredients, but as simple as possible. You don't want to be focusing on the food, and you don't want to screw up. A good piece of fish, a simple salad (sliced ripe tomatoes, or whatever), and berries with either cream or some kind of appropriate booze sprinkled over them. If you're already sleeping together, on the other hand, you can show off.
Get her blasted enough and she won't care what you cook anyway. I once gave a dinner party preceded by shots of neat, overproof Finnish vodka straight from the freezer. A great time was had by all.
I can't believe that Saurianbreath has ever had real salmon if she can't see the problem with what comes into shops. The only guaranteed non-gay fish is the stuff you have caught yourself. Send him up into the Catskills to catch a brook trout or something. If they have any left there.
I can't believe that Saurianbreath has ever had real salmon if she can't see the problem with what comes into shops.
Jesus you people are all snobs. Yes, absolutely, wild salmon is infinitely better than the farmed stuff. And I personally only eat pheasant, hand raised in a Japanese temple by Shinto monks. Do you know what wild salmon costs? And the farmed stuff isn't disgusting, just blander and duller.
I have to agree with LB here. Wild salmon is better than farmed, but for crying out loud, cooking was invented to deal with less than perfect ingredients. You think the French came up with all of those sauces because their meat was perfect?
If you can get the wild salmon, great, but you're just trying to get laid here, right? Not apply for a cooking job.
Say: somebody (Mr. H) above said that vichyssoise is not good for a date dinner and I'm wondering why -- is it too heavy? It seems nice to me, and the ideal accompaniment to salmon on a hot night. Agreed that boullabaise would be an awful choice. I'm just now thinking about what a nice dinner would be: gin and tonic, vichyssoise, poached salmon served just warm, some kind of salad consisting of baby greens and a lot of parsley and chives with oil and vinegar dressing, served with an Alsatian white wine, and watermelon or berries or sorbet for dessert. most everything can be made in advance except the fish which is not a labor-intensive dish.
I find them uncomfortable, sorta, but they're part of the fun ritual of dating. My biggest problem with the show-off meal is staying out of the kitchen.
Yes, that's right. Salmon is fish for people who don't really like fish.
Plus, for me, it has a texture that I don't really like. I cook it fairly often as my wife really likes salmon but I'd prefer any one of a dozen other types of fish.
The anti-salmon contingent would be ridiculed mercilessly if they spouted that ignorant rubbish here in the Pacific Northwest, as would anyone who desecrated a good piece of fish with a brown sugar sauce.
I don't really disagree with 76, actually. I was trying to get at something like LB's 127 -- keep the kitchen stuff simple, make sure some parts are done in advance, and then you can do the simple, fun stuff like slicing berries for dessert while conversing. Because at least for me, if I enjoy my friend's (or friends') company too much, I tend to do absurd things like add the sugar twice to the brownies, or forget about the roasted red peppers until they are beyond blackened and into inedible.
And if I concentrate too much on the cooking, I don't make a mistake...but I miss all kind of conversational openings. Which, when there are no other guests to pick up the slack, can be awkward. And if this evening is meant to lead to more such dates...yeah, you don't want to be missing the low-hanging fruit. So to speak.
Vichyssoise has both potatoes and cream, which does make it pretty heavy for a summer soup. A carrot soup with a little ginger and parsley would be better, or the roasted red pepper soup mentioned above.
How about Elizabeth David's Kedgeree? It needs smoked haddock, which may be hard to find, but I have made it very often in a wok, and it is relatively simple, unusual, and not too heavy. Essentially, it's a very fancy form of one pot cooking.
Anyway, I have just noticed the clinching anti-salmon argument: what's seasonal about them in August?
It doesn't have to have cream! And since you serve it cold it already has added thickness over a hot soup. You can make the vichyssoise with very little potato, and with whole milk instead of cream. Using a good stock is key here.
Andrew, we haven't lost a sense of season about what foods to eat in what weather, and about fruits and vegatables that may be locally grown, but about meats and fishes, which come from faraway climes anyway, we mostly have.
144 -- you can lighten vichyssoise by using yoghurt instead of cream and have it still taste very good. Agreed with Blume that olive oil is the way to go.
If you're going to do a sangria, I'd recommend a white-wine sangria instead of a red-wine sangria. Less likely to overwhelm the food. You could try one with peaches and cherries, perhaps. Although, I don't know if that's really necessary. I think wine is sufficient. He's got enough going on with the meal that elaborate mixed drinks could be overkill.
A lot of this stuff sounds really good. I am not a very good cook and not creative with recipes? Could we arrange some cooking meetups?
It is possible to get frozen wild fish which is not bad. Most sushi fish has been frozen--unless you're right next to teh fish market in Japan. It's actually a bit fresher than fish that's been sitting on a fishing boat for several weeks. The fresh Atlantic Fish that Whole Foods carries comes from day boats, not great trawlers so that they can make sure that it's fresh.
Both Whole Foods and Trader Joe's carry reasonably priced, forzen, wild fish.
Salads: Maybe this is too heavy for summer, but I like it. I make a spinach salad with walnuts and a little bit of blue cheese, mushrooms, thinly sliced or shaved white onions and mandarin oranges. I get the oranges from a can, but fresh would probably be better.
157 -- cooking or potluck meetups would be a lot of fun. What about a potluck picnic in Central Park or Riverside Park, sometime in August or September?
157 -- your spinach salad is missing bacon, which I have always found to be a key ingredient for spinach salad. I would substitute it for the blue cheese. (But then I would also not put oranges in, and it would be a different salad.)
Okay, I confess ignorance about the figs. People around here rave about them. What exactly do you do with them? They seem to have an awful lot of seeds, and an unforgiving rind, or peel, or whatever. Help me out.
152: well, OK. But fish do have seasons, connected with their spawning times, even if they are frozen. Back when I had a freezer and used to put a lot of fish in it, I would notice that they went off a little after two or three weeks, let alone six months. So if you're buying frozen fish off a day boat there is probably a seasonal cycle to what's good.
163: Good point, jmcq. I wasn't really making a suggestion about what our anonymous reader should make as I was trying to combat the idea that nuts and cheese are too heavy for summer.
164: We just grilled 'em, wrapped in foil. And I think I ate the whole thing, except the stem. Very tasty, despite having taken on smokiness from wood chips due to what else I was cooking.
164 -- you eat fig seeds along with the fruit. if you are eating the fig raw, you scrape the fruit off the inside of the rind and throw the rind out, but I think once cooked the rind is edible and tasty too.
164: Take off the stems. That's it. The key is to get very ripe figs. Peaches would also work with the skewer recipe above if you cna't find ripe fresh figs.
162: sushi fish in the U.S. has indeed been frozen, but this usually means that it is exposed to an extremely low temperature for a matter of moments. Kills some kind of critters that might be in there. The texture is mostly preserved, though, unlike the frozen fish fillets you buy at the store.
Empanada Mama in NYC serves a dessert empanada of figs, caramel, and brie that is divine. Not saying for anyone [esp. Lothario] to make empanadas (too greasy) but that would be a great flavor combination to translate into something else.
searing tuna over a charcoal chimney is superior way to prepare it
Yeah, that's an absurdly bright idea. So you put the grill face over the chimney, is that the idea? No balance problems?
And then you load the coals into the grill proper and cook the corn, peaches, or wrapped-fig thingies. (Chopper, I also confess fignorance—what to do to prepare them?)
If you're worried about onions and making out, you can always blanche the onions before putting them in the salad. Yeah it's an added step, but onions are delicious!
A yummy salad out of the San Francisco a la Carte cookbook: romaine lettuce, purple onions, halved grapes, sectioned and chopped oranges, sliced avocado, and balsamic vingrette.
Of course, outside of California, avocados are ruinously expensive and often not very good. Note: all avocado must be Haas avocados. That bigass green thing from North Africa? Not an avocado.
ANother appetizer skewer: Marinate some fresh squid in olive oil, a little white wine vinegar or lemon juice (careful too not use too much--you don't want to make ceviche), garlic, and herbs de provence, cut into bite size pieces, then thread onto skewers with purple bell pepper, cherry or small plum tomatoes, and eggplant chunks (brush the vegetables with the marinade). Grill brieflyy over high heat to get some scorch marks, then move to a cooler spot over the fire until the tomatoes are completely soft, just about ready to fall off the skewer.
Yeah, that's an absurdly bright idea. So you put the grill face over the chimney, is that the idea?
I was thinking you would just hold the fish in the the flame using long metal tongs (with insulate handles, obvs.). The idea would be to sear the fuck out of the surface very quickly while leaving the inside raw, even cool (not cold, though, you lose too much flavor--leave the fish out on the counter for a half hour before grilling it).
I started cooking on the chimney during a father-son camping trip with my son a couple of years ago. Leaders didn't drink coffee. You turn the chimney upside down, to bring the coals into proximity: it leaves a depth of about four inches. The grill from a small Weber, say twelve inch, balances perfectly on top. I put a percolator on top of that, and then later began cooking other things, only using the full grill for major meals. Fast, small, clean, and a comfortable waist-level height when put into a grill for safety.
I always assumed that at some point, the Haas family had a lot of money in avocado farms, since their name was plastered on every building in town. Huh.
Hell, if you did this for the steak, you could brush on a melted butter, shallot, and cognac mixture and flambe the bastard right in the chimney. Talk about a wow factor!
I've said that before. Way back in the mists of the past he was talking about things to do with carrots that had me making little whimpering noises. Let alone the home-cured meats.
Good god, did someone actually defend farmed salmon upthread? It is not only disgusting, it is quite literally poisonous if you eat a lot of it. They are kept in conditions not much better than battery chickens. I would be more likely to serve my guests boiled cat.
Squid should not be rubbery. Bit chewy, but rubbery sounds unpleasant.
I can't decide between Chopper and Clownae's menus - do you two fancy having some kind of cook-off so I can choose? I'll come to you, or you can come here, either suits me.
I never really liked fish, but then a few years ago I decided that saying "I don't like fish" is a really stupid thing to say, seeing as there are hundreds of different varieties of fish, and surely they can't all taste like fish fingers? I eat it quite a lot now when I'm out, but I'm still rather nervous of cooking it.
Still can't face shellfish though - if I went on a date dinner and got served mussels, I'm not sure what I'd do.
So my theory is, the Step Beyond in metrosexuality and sensitivity is getting really good at doing laundry. Soon every guy will be a good cook, like the guys here, and the ladies will be all ho-hum about that. But the guy who can get things whiter-than-white, and not ruin the delicates, that's a really special guy.
So would anyone, but good cat is even harder to get than wild salmon.
These days. My grandmother remembered seeing "rabbits" hanging outside a butcher's shop in east London, whose heads had quite clearly been sewn on with a needle and thread.
My plan would be to hang out in the Milan laundromat where the up-and-coming young supermodels did their laundry, and say helpful things like "You really don't have to presoak that as long as you use XXXX soap and set the machine at YYYY. Here, why don't I show you?"
As soon as one of them hit big, I'd be doing her laundry full time, if you know what I mean.
This is all theory. In actual fact, I wash everything the same way, and throw away everything that seems to need some kind of special handling.
Perhaps a laundry school for ambitious young guys could be started. Sure, it would be more authentic to do laundry the old-country way your Sicilian grandmother did it, but my grandmother came from Iowa.
The guy hanging out at the laundromat offering to do laundry would have to be really good at deactivating supermodels' "creep" sensors. The school would teach that.
205: I like doing laundry and it's my domain in our house because Roberta doesn't approach it with the OCD particularity that I require. I can even fold a fitted sheet properly. NC has bigamy laws on the books, but you could come be our concubine, Becks.
God, y'all are way to fancy for me. If I showed up to a meal of squid and bouillabaisse and flambe of Great Pretentiousness, I'd either be intimidated or scornfull or both in rapid succession. Unless he's a professional chef, why all the fuss? Summer spaghetti (before I clicked the link, which specified meatballs) sounded just dandy to me, as I imagined noodles with some good summer tomatoes and olive oil and maybe some capers or roasted red peppers (from a jar, even) tossed in. And crusty bread.
I agree you can't go wrong with fruit and/or chocolate for dessert, whatever looks good at the market, which would be peaches right now where I am. Grilled peaches sounds perfect, or even peach pie (but I'm the sort that would buy the Pillsbury roll-out crusts, so I probably don't count).
My grandfather had fig trees on his farm, and Grandmother would serve them ripe and cold out of the fridge. Just cold figs in a bowl, and I loved them. It's hard to find ripe figs off the farm, though, as they have such a short season and they rot so quickly. If they're so hard they have a "rind," they aren't ripe and you shouldn't bother.
Anyway, what I'm saying is this all sounds like "trying too hard" to me, and I agree he should keep it simple. And he should *ask her first* if she has any food allergies/restrictions/preferences. I mean, I'd eat whatever he served out of politeness, but I'd secretly be thinking "mussels? yech."
Becks, a lot of guys who brag about their laundry skills on the internet actually have several ex-wives mouldering in their crawl space. Sniff around a bit when you meet him.
That's a skill I did have before marriage, and impressed more than one woman with. Many women hate and resent laundry, and are not very good at it. Actually, a milder version of John's scenario gets the ball rolling in Steve Martin's Shopgirl
I refuse even to try to fold a fitted sheet properly.
In the best circles, this is recognised as the right approach. Also, there are only two kinds of laundry besides hand washing - stuff that needs a slow spin so it dries without creasing too much, and the rest.
Laundry's not so tough—learning how and when to use bleach and fabric softener and paying for the good detergents &c. is all there is to it.
Among chores, I'm fond of washing dishes, but I despise dusting. I definitely hope to find a mate who takes some satisfaction in it or is at least willing to do it, because I'm just not.
Grilling on a date???? Not until the relationship's well established. Otherwise it's just totally to "manly man" and strongly suggests the guy doesn't know how to cook anything else.
You people are unimaginative. The salmon sauce sounds to me like the guy knows *exactly* what he's doing in the kitchen; it's a bit unusual, but it sounds good. And of course wild salmon is better, but suck it up, gourmands: if we all insist on eating only wild fish, the overfishing problem is gonna mean there won't be any left soon. (And tuna? Much as I love it, don't poison your date.)
As to laundry, we don't iron either. But I can confirm that a man who does laundry is teh hott. Mr. B. does ours, and has for years, though he doesn't iron and tends to let it sit clean in a basket for ages, which ensures we are often wrinkly (and is also one reason why most of my better clothes are dry-clean only). The boyfriend does his (and mine, when I visit) and is such a perfectionist that he folds even tshirts with a shirt cardboard, so his stuff never needs ironing.
This word, I don't think it means what you think it means.
Also, everything else you said is wrong, too. And especially, the not-ironing. Unless you're all wearing those fancy no-iron cotton clothes, which are, and I deploy this cliche with at least some reflection, the best invention since antibiotics.
I had a roommate once who worked a summer at The Gap. Her closet was a thing of wonder. Watching me fold clothes stressed her out so much that she would take the basket out of my hands and just fold it for me. Boy do I miss her.
No one irons here. I think my partner ironed a shirt for a job interview 4 years ago. And I told him when we moved in together that I don't do washing up (i.e. dishes), although I'm quite happy to do it at other people's houses, just not at home. He does most of the cleaning, I do most of the laundry and cooking.
Slol is right, I should have said gourmets. My bad. And I prefer ironed clothes myself, but I'm not gonna nag my husband about how he does laundry--what do you think I am, stupid?
226 is true, of course, but again: I'm gonna point this out? Hell no.
Dry-cleaning seems to me like the biggest scam in the world. Clothing manufacturers are getting a cut from the dry-cleaning people every time they put one of those "dry clean only" tags on items that could so totally be hand-washed, or washed gently and line-dried. The only items I get dry-cleaned have lining.
We iron about equally, our own things mostly. And the shirt cardboard is a good trick, because it saves time and aggravation. If you're going to do laundry, it's a small thing that pays big dividends.
I meant, "the best invention since" was the cliche, and I changed the ending because, really, are we gonna disagree that antibiotics outrank no-iron cotton? I mean, it rules, but I'd rather be alive and wrinkly. Even my sense of propriety has its limits.
I don't like dry cleaning because it requires so much advance planning. You mean I was supposed to realize two days ago that I wanted to wear that sweater tomorrow?
(Yes, I know there are places with same day service but the place with free pickup and delivery to my building has a three day turnaround and I am super lazy.)
Aha! Combine one of the tangents with the main topic and IRON THE SALMON! The hell with poaching and grilling and what not. Just haul out the tin foil, plug in the Rowenta and there you are...
That somehow reminds me of a cookbook I saw once describing methods of cooking all sorts of things by wrapping them in tinfoil, tucking them in strategic places under the hood of your car, and driving around.
Rum-Mango Sorbet: 1 big can Alphonse mango pulp (available at any Indian grocery); 1/4 cup fresh mint; 1 tbs. lime juice (less maybe? I don't remember); 1/3 cup good rum. Mix and freeze (use an ice cream maker for the best results). Thaw a little before serving-- it's best when it's creamy.
Grilling on a date???? Not until the relationship's well established. Otherwise it's just totally to "manly man" and strongly suggests the guy doesn't know how to cook anything else.
You're on crack. Anybody who makes prosciutto-fig-goat cheese skewers knows how to cook. Sure, it's easy, but the idea is not to necessarily show mastery of a specific technique but to demonstrate understanding of how flavors work together, implying that future meals will be equally good, complex or not.
The Nicoise salad is sophisticated (it's French), healthy (shit, it'ssalad, and tasty. It requires only minimal competence (blanch the green beans, boil the eggs, grill the tuna steak, dress the greens). You can do everything ahead, except dressing the greens, grilling the fish, and spooning out a little mayo to go with the fish.
The s'mores dessert is perfect, because she gets to participate in grilling the marshmallows. It's casual, it's fun, and with really good chocolate, her socks will be knocked off.
If you can't score with this menu, I've got nothing for you.
Oh, 250 is fine; that particular menu/grilling option would work. And I agree 100% about the fig skewers. But this is totally not anywhere in the same ballpark as the originally-proposed menu; it's a completely different date. And the subsequent "yes, grilling is better than cooking" thing is just weird. Grilling can be a lovely date, I just wouldn't do it too early on because of issues like heat, mosquitoes, and it requiring actually standing over the grill most of the time. Whereas the originally proposed meal (or the alteration with salad) can mostly be done in advance, with the exception of the fish. Plus, god forbid the woman wear something a little dressy to a date. I hate it when I wear, say, silk and then end up on an unexpected picnic. (Though of course, if you *say* the plan is to get out the grill, then that's fine.)
My first thought on dessert was something berry-based, since that would be summery and seasonal, but I don't know where to go beyond that. Also, if it's hot out, a bisque might be a little warm. Maybe an interesting salad if he's trying to go for fancy instead?
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:06 PM
If he wants soup, I'd suggest gazpacho. Bisque is all kinds of wrong for summer weather. Also, while salmon sounds tasty, the sauce sounds... not good.
Posted by Josh | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:14 PM
The salmon sounds a little busy, but if he's made it before and it's good, then I'll figure he knows what he's doing. On interesting salads, I'm fond of baby greens (or whatever lettuce you like, really), blue cheese, walnuts, and chopped apple. And on a hot night, berries and a little whipped cream are nice, or maybe just some sorbet.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:15 PM
On interesting salads, I'm fond of baby greens (or whatever lettuce you like, really), blue cheese, walnuts, and chopped apple.
A Waldorf! Though that's not all that interesting.
Posted by Hehindeedsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:16 PM
Yeah, a sorbet or granita would be a good dessert.
Posted by Josh | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:22 PM
Blackberries with creme anglaise, or somesuch, make a lovely dessert. Also flan with berries or, to go along with the curry idea, rose-infused cream with berries, or anything that matches up berries or melon with mint or lemon verbena or rose or scented geranium. I can totally provide cooking directions if this sounds interesting.
The salmon dish sounds rich-ish, for salmon. Therefore I would skip the bisque. Plus you want to think of texture: soup = soft, salmon = soft. Berry-type desserts = soft. I, personally, *adore* summer tomatoes (real ones, from a garden) and if you can get ahold of those with some fresh basil and tarragon you really can't go wrong with a simple tomato salad. Or I have a fabulous recipe for grilled peach salad: marinate peaches in a marinade made of jalapeno, basil, ginger, lime juice, salt, and olive oil; grill them; serve them over greens--arugula, watercress, basil--with a little dressing of olive oil, champagne or rice vinegar, salt and pepper.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:22 PM
If he's not feeling secure about the sauce, you can't go wrong poaching salmon in a little court bullion. Simmer a carrot, an onion, some peppercorns, a bay leaf, and anything else leafy in the fridge that's getting a little old (the carrot tops? Some parsley? The limp outer leaves of the lettuce?) in a pot of water for half an hour or so, and then simmer the salmon in a pan in the broth you just made for 10-15 minutes, depending on how thick it is. A little hollandaise, or some good mayonnaise, and it couldn't be better.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:22 PM
Apples in August? No.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:23 PM
That's not a Waldorf; a Waldorf has carrots and raisins and mayonnaise and doesn't have blue cheese. Walnuts alone do not a Waldorf make.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:23 PM
I, personally, *adore* summer tomatoes (real ones, from a garden) and if you can get ahold of those with some fresh basil and tarragon you really can't go wrong with a simple tomato salad.
Very true.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:24 PM
Deep-fried Twinkies.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:26 PM
If you can get good tomatoes, a caprese salad- tomatoes, fresh basil, fresh (of buffalo if you've got the cash) mozzerella, topped with olive oil and balsamic vinegar.
Posted by SP | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:29 PM
For dessert, chocolate - doesn't matter that it's summer. Try this dessert: http://www.leitesculinaria.com/recipes/cookbook/choco_pudding.html
It is easy, it works, you can do it in cute, individual ramekins or ovenproof stonewear bowls.
Best part, get some heavy whipping cream, throw in a few pinches of sugar, and start whipping with a big whisk, in front of her, as the thing cooks. Total time, 30 minutes. Yes, it might be lovely to have the dessert already prepared.
But this is a mistake. What you want is to have the dinner prepared, and then allow her to watch you make dessert.
Posted by Peter | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:29 PM
Carrots and raisins in a Waldorf?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:29 PM
Dessert could easily be a shot of limoncello and a couple of shortbread cookies. Keep it simple and light. It's hot outside.
Salmon is really fatty and benefits from citrus flavors.
I like to cook salmon in a pouch of baker's parchment, with a half cup of (cheap) white wine, the juice of a lemon, fresh dill, salt and pepper.
About 20 minutes in a 450ºF oven.
Posted by Michael Barrett | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:29 PM
Salade Niçoise with either the best tuna he can find or really, really good brined anchovies. That salmon sounds pretty unappetizing for summer.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:30 PM
I like salmon with cream sauce myself. My boyfriend has made me salmon with martini sauce, which is lovely. The sauce is basically a very light cream sauce with a few juniper berries and good gin, deglazed with a really good vermouth. Fabulous.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:34 PM
Raisins, at least. I must have been thinking of celery when I said carrots.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:34 PM
Salad: greens (not spinach), pear, gorgonzola cheese, red onion, candied pecans.
The bisque is too heavy for summer. I'd either go with gazpacho or just skip the soup course.
I would probably broil or grill tuna steaks that were marinated in a ginger-garlic-orange-soy sauce. I've found that maple goes really well on salmon, and then you can grill it.
Over at Be/lle's blog, there's a recipe for an excellent calatested tart with cherries and white chocolate that would make a great dessert.
Your menu, though, sounds great for November. Just not August.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:38 PM
I was once involved in a heated argument with a friend who sent back a Waldorf Salad at a restaurant. I said he was being a dick. He said I was feigning class consciousness solely on the basis of having waited tables before. We no longer keep in touch with any regularity. Please people: let's not ruin this lovely thread with a Waldorf War. I've seen one before, and it ain't pretty.
Posted by Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:40 PM
DOes he have a grill? Even like a mini-hibachi?
If so: figs and goat cheese with a little honey, wrapped in prosciutto into little packets and skewered.
I like the suggestion of the salad nicoise above--can be nice and cool. If you get a very nice tuna steak, you can sear the tuna on the grill and leave the center raw and let it cool before combining with the other ingredients, then when the charcoal has lost it's immediate scorching heat, grill the fig skewers.
Pair the above two with a nice rose (maybe sparkling?).
Then, dessert: s'mores (get good chocolate) and coffee ice cream, paired with a nice cognac.
The above is nice because you can prepare everything in advance, and just do a few whiz-bang things at the end to impress.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:40 PM
I suggest some of these- nothing says "I care" like a soup with velveeta, boullion cubes, and frozen broccoli.
(Via rude pundit, who notes the of the lasagne recipe's ingredients- Prego diluted with water- "because jarred Prego is just too rich.")
Posted by SP | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:54 PM
Chopper's got my back on the niçoise. I'm glad that's settled.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:57 PM
After three courses? I'd be happy for fresh melon and blueberries, with some lime squeezed over it all. But I don't make intricate foods.
Posted by Megan | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 10:04 PM
I second the coffee ice cream. And if she doesn't like coffee ice cream, well, at least you've established that she in in fact undateable.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 10:05 PM
Seriously? You want him to make a salad with hard-boiled eggs, potatoes, and anchovies? What if she's like, wtf is wrong with your salad? Cala's on the right, non-anchovy track.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 10:07 PM
We're also forgetting to ask: has the music been selected yet?
Posted by Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 10:10 PM
Alternate summertime dessert that's easy is fresh strawberries and angel food cake.
And for main courses it's hard to go wrong with grilling a couple of filet mignons.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 10:13 PM
I'm hoping this goes without saying, but has he cleared food issues? I once made a lovely salmon dish for a girl (now my ex) and discovered that she hated salmon.
That should have been my first clue.
(Second should have been when she described herself as vegetarian but one who ate chicken regularly. Ooh, I hate that. Vegetarians don't eat meat! That's why they're called 'vegetarians' and not 'vegetables and sometimes chicken-arians!' Clearly I still have some baggage around this.)
I recently had my new favorite hot weather salad: watermelon, onions, heirloom tomatoes and feta cheese. (And I think some basil.) Tremendous. Eat a Waldorf some other time. Here's a recipe that's very close to what we had - this one omits tomatoes but you really shouldn't.
Posted by moira | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 10:15 PM
I'm hoping this goes without saying, but has he cleared food issues?
That's why you gotta do test foods like filet mignon and coffee ice cream. Turns them down? Undateable!
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 10:19 PM
Armsmasher is totally undateable. Good brined anchovies are sublime. That said, tuna is the more traditional fish in a niçoise.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 10:41 PM
I've always wanted to try to make a Summer Berry Pudding. Wouldn't recommend an untested recipe for a date, but the America's Test Kitchen/Cook's Illustrated recipe looked good. Sadly, it's not online but thier tips are available here and a recipe that could be used as a starting point is here.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:08 PM
I agree that a bisque is probably too heavy, although I once had a delicious cold tomato bisque with avocado ice.
Walnuts and apples and blue cheeses make great salads but are totally all fall-like. It's August, real tomatoes are available, and are delicious, so use them! With fresh basil. I can't remember where Becks is encamped at the moment, but if her Lothario is in NYC, it's so damn easy to find exquisitely fresh mozarella made that morning or the day before by some guy in his garage down the block, so use that too with the tomatoes and basil.
Figs are lovely too, but it seems a little early, they're usually at their best in late summer and early fall, in my experience. Use them only if you can get ripe fresh ones from a local source. The ones jetted in from elsewhere usually taste like nothing so much as water.
Nicoise salad is a great great summer dish, but to me is more of a picnic dish, not an impressive dinner type deal. Save it for the following weekend outing to the park. Fish is a good choice, and I would recommend grilling if at all possible, no sauce necessary other than a squeeze of lemon, or if you must add a sauce, then something light. Brown sugar and curry sounds too cloying for summer heat. Rice is a nice accompniament. If a fatty fish like salmon, I like serving it with something like rapini or other bitter greens to act as a foil to the richness.
As for dessert, as has been mentioned, something involving summer fruits like berries, stone fruits, or melons with something light and creamy is just the thing.
And remember, you don't want your date stunned into torpitude by the depth and quantity of your offerings. Keep it light, so she'll have some energy left for smooching afterwards.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:16 PM
not an impressive dinner type deal
Yeah, but you don't want to be too impressive, like you're trying too hard.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:19 PM
I second gswift, but would add whip cream (easy with a mixer, though you can get whip cream canister and cartridges, its fun with a squirt bottle of it). I would call it a strawberry shortcake though.
Or if you have a double boiler you can make chocolate covered stawberries pretty easily.
Posted by uncle | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:23 PM
Mitch is exactly right, except for thinking that curry isn't a good summer thing. People: curry is FROM INDIA. Where it is often hot. Hello?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:35 PM
The correct dessert is a cold panna cotta with mixed berry coulis.
Posted by Anon | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:36 PM
34: That's the joy of seasonal cooking. If you do it right, it's impressive as hell and not terribly difficult, because it's all about the freshness of the ingredients.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:37 PM
36: Um, yeah, I know curry is from India. But brown sugar curry, presumably involving "curry powder"? Not fit for the heat. Not to mention that a fair amount of what we think of as Indian food is actually from the mountainous north, including Pakistan, not from the more tropical regions of that huge and diverse subcontinent.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:39 PM
presumably involving "curry powder"?
I refuse to think so ill of my fellow commenters. But salmon with a light sweet curry sauce sounds just fine to me, honestly. Although I totally think that bisque is wrong.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:46 PM
Brown sugar is not light and sweet. And "curry" is basically about as descriptive as "sauce". It doesn't tell you anything about a dish other than that it contains a mixture of spices.
That's why I assumed anyone employing the naked term descriptively was probably using it to denote the use of "curry powder". I'd be delighted to be wrong, however.
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:51 PM
34 gets it exactly right. You make the salad all pretty-like -- meaning don't toss it -- and serve yourselves from the same dish. Casual yet romantic, see?
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:56 PM
wtf is wrong with curry powder? I've made some good shit with curry powder. I've never mixed it with white wine, though. Sounds weird.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:10 AM
And what's this hive-mind "bisque is too heavy!!" crap? What kind of limp-wristed, pinky-lifting wimps are you people? I'd eat me some bisque right now, right in a big sour dough bowl if I had it.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:12 AM
of course, proper bisque is probably going to need fish stock, which, depending on where you are geographically, can be impossible to find. Might have to order it ahead of time. God forbid you make a seafood bisque with chicken or vegetable broth.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:15 AM
the cw in india is that the farther south, the hotter the food is, because of the hotter climate.
Posted by yoyo | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:17 AM
And for desert, one might consider a chilled white chocolate mousse. Pretty easy, but looks impressive.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:17 AM
And seriously, the whole idea of not being creepy here is not to look like you're trying to impress. don't make something you usually don't, with many courses, etc. its much better if you're just a good cook, and your girl is coming over one evening to eat together.
Posted by yoyo | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:19 AM
45: Um, you can actually *make* stock.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:19 AM
I'm with M/tch.
Brown sugar and curry sauce does not sound good to me.
Also, if I was going to do something spicy with fish I'd go Thai or I'd go south Indian and use a fish other than salmon. I prefer firm white fish for that sort of thing.
Salmon, to me, doesn't cry out for a 'curry' treatment especially if 'curry' means some generic curry powder which will have spices that will totally overpower the fish.
If I was cooking salmon I'd keep it simple -- fry it in a little butter, squeeze of lemon, etc. Or steam it in a little parcel like Michael Barrett suggests above.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:20 AM
"45: Um, you can actually *make* stock."
really??
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:21 AM
brown sugar is the usual substitute for palm sugar in thai curries. but i'd agree, make a curry with a fish that isn't salmon. i'd probably skip fish if you haven't made it before, meat has a greater margin of error in cooking time. fish is easy to mess up.
Posted by yoyo | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:25 AM
Oh, and he needs to do chocolate soufflé for dessert. Made with great chocolate, it's blindingly delicious, and the perceived-difficulty-to-actual-difficulty ratio is through the roof, so she'll be impressed.
It's dead simple. Chop and melt over very low heat 3 oz. chocolate (I like to use Scharffen Berger 70 percent); let cool. Rub two ramekins with butter and dust with sugar (the finely granulated bakers' kind). Separate two eggs and beat the whites until you just get peaks -- gently, don't let it get stiff and dry. Stir the yolks, then about a quarter of the whites, into the chocolate, then fold the chocolate mixture into the remaining whites. Again, this is a time for Casanova to demonstrate his gentle touch. Spoon the stuff into the ramekins and wipe the rim dry so that the crust will go inward as it rises, and bake in a 400-degree oven for about ten minutes, until you have a puffy, dry crust and the center is just past creamy.
For the sauce, I like a blackberry coulis -- basically just the thick juice from mushed-up blackberries. A chinois works best, but a fine sieve will do. If they're really ripe, some marionberries, which are more acidic, will help to focus the flavor; if you can't get those, use a little lemon juice. Puncture the crust and pour in the sauce. Hopefully, the metaphorical value of this gesture will not be lost on her.
Serve with framboise (the raspberry dessert wine, not the beer or the spirit). Really, don't even consider anything else. I recommend Bonny Doon's.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:32 AM
Also, given the relatively narrow margin of error in fish cooking time, you really need to make it on the spot. It can't be prepared earlier and then reheated in the way that a lot of meat dishes can.*
Depending on the anonymous reader's needs,** he may not want to be standing over the stove cooking while his date is there.
* Obviously _some_ fish dishes can. But most can't.
** And whether he is suave and debonair in the kitchen or sweaty and panicking.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:34 AM
Since we're talking cooking, I'll mention that this book makes me think of Apo'r.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:56 AM
I also find the bisque a bit heavy and the salmon sauce a bit strange sounding. cold soup would be better. almost any vegetable is good cooked with chicken broth, onion sauteed in olive oil, and maybe a potato, whizzed in the blender and then combined with yogurt or creme fraiche or whatever. always looks nice because you can put a blob of yogurt on top and some fresh herbs and it looks all fancy. carrot and rosemary? broccoli? tomato and basil salad is great, and the watermelon one sounds nice. anything on the grill: good. the salmon, grilled and topped with herb butter and lemon? fine beans blanched and topped with vinaigrette at the last minute? white fish with lemon caper brown butter? dessert: I second all the fruit-based dessert suggestions and basically the simpler the better. or granita? super easy and good. coffee granita makes a nice pick me up.
Posted by alameida | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 1:28 AM
I don't find bisque in the summer a problem, but bisque first course + salmon second course is too rich.
For dessert: grilled peaches with a little sweet marsala over the top. Or the limoncello idea was good too, but maybe I'm just a lush- I often have alcohol for dessert.
Posted by Blume | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 1:30 AM
Go light on the first course and main dish, but dessert is all about seduction. Assuming she isn't allergic or a communist, make chocolate, chocolate, and more chocolate. The mousses or puddings recommended here are all good bets, as they're cold enough for summer.
If you must skip the chocolate, go with one of those sparkling prosecco jello concoctions. With raspberries.
Posted by transplant | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 1:52 AM
If he wants to make soup he should make a melon or berry soup, fit to be served chilled as a light and delicious first course! Does somewhat limit options for dessert, I guess. Thus, you should instead have some quince brandy.
Also, that salmon doesn't sound too great to me. I suggest: Mussels! Because I, personally, really like them, and eating someone's mussel shows that you really trust that person.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 2:16 AM
A little limoncello in some Lillet makes for a very refreshing aperitif.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 2:18 AM
there's a recipe for salmon with Goan curry sauce in Rick Stein's book, which I suspect is what this guy's after. It is not bad, although salmon is fundamentally a poof's fish*.
Bisque isn't a good idea, basically ever. Shellfish soups are not worth bothering with and greasy creamy soups are bad for the digestion. I would buy a terrine of some sort. Or maybe salt cod and peppers.
Crepes suzette are usually the way to go for dessert if you can handle them.
* well it is
Posted by dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 2:27 AM
I would also add that in most American houses I have visited in summer, the fucking air conditioning is turned up so high that many people would welcome a cup of chocolat chaud and a hearty warming stew to ward off the chill.
Posted by dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 2:28 AM
Roasted red pepper soup is really good and doesn't need greasy cream, though dsquared's opinion that shellfish soups aren't worth bothering with makes me think he isn't to be trusted, since, like, bouillabaise is awesome.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 2:30 AM
I'm with Dsquared on the salmon thing, actually.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 2:47 AM
But bouillabaise is mostly spiny fish rather than actually shelled ones. Anyway, dsquared's right about salmon. You can't get it fresh, unless it's been farmed, in which case you might just as well stew some pink flannel for her, and you can embroider hearts and flowers on the flannel if you want to impress her more.
Something like coronation chicken is light, not, in America, corny, and fairly easy to prepare. And if it is corny, tell her it's poulet a l'Indienne: in any case, chicken breast in a lightly spiced yoghourt-ish sauce. Spend time and money buying good chicken rather than fancy sauce ingredients.
It's not just about giving the appearance of spontaneity and naturalness: a seduction meal shouldln't leave you feeling incapable of any exercise afterwards. Three courses may be pushing it.
Posted by Andrew Brown | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 2:48 AM
in any case, chicken breast in a lightly spiced yoghourt-ish sauce
Um. In the sense that chicken Marengo is fried chicken with a bit of parsley. Coronation chicken is fine, but the human body can only ingest so much of it at a single sitting. You'd need plenty of plain salad and bread if you want to use it for a main course.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 3:06 AM
Chocolate covered strawberries. Dip them ahead of time, stuff into fridge, spend precious '10 minutes until she gets here' time on something else.
Posted by NBarnes | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 3:35 AM
44 had me laughing so hard my GF came in to my room to see if I knew why there was a dog barking next to the house. Apparently when I'm laughing myself sick, through a door I sound like a dog barking at something. Who knew?
Posted by NBarnes | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 3:36 AM
bouillabaise is awesome
If you are making bouillabaisse out of shellfish (as well as spelling it wrong) then all I can say is sommeil avec un oeil ouvert, ami.
Posted by dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 3:42 AM
All the recipes I've seen have included clams or the like.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 4:05 AM
Salmon in brown sugar sauce? Why do Americans feel they have to put sugar in everything to make it
a) gourmet-worthy
b) edible
If you can't prepare salmon artfully, stick to summer spaghetti.
Posted by textibule | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 4:17 AM
I'm pretty sure the recipe I ahve for bouillabaisse (in one of the Cordon Bleu books) has some shellfish in it. Also, octopus and all kinds of ugly spiny fish.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 4:26 AM
67 is probably right about dessert. Can you get wild strawberries? Serve them in a glass with a little dessert wine, chilled. Even simpler.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 4:28 AM
Matt, I think the point is not that bouillabaisse can't have shellfish in it, but that it can't only have shellfish in it. As far as I know it can include anything to hand, plus rascasse.
The great fish cookery writer Alan Davidson once recalled a 1949 American recipe for bouillabaisse, the French fish stew, that consisted of a can of tomato soup and a can of pea soup. "No fish, no herbs and no olive oil,'' he noted mournfully.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 4:44 AM
No time to make food suggestions now, but I will just second/third/whatever the recommendation that the first two parts of the meal be prepared in advance. I've been cooking for almost 20 years, and my guests are the least high-pressure, least-picky people you can imagine, and I still keep relearning that it is better for the dinner and the friendship if there is nothing too distracting going on in the kitchen, food-wise, while company is present.
Good heavens, that was a long sentence.
Posted by Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:05 AM
I think #73 crosses over the fine line between "stylishly simple and elegant" and "quite obviously blagging out of making a proper dessert".
I also heartily disagree with #75. The kitchen is a far friendlier place for one's friends to be and it gives you a decent topic of conversation to prevent baby- or shop-talk (ie, laughing at third degree burns and gasping at flagrant food hygiene breaches). Also note that if you "prepare food ahead of time", then it's gong to be fridge-cool when you serve it and that is IMO more than a little bit common.
Posted by dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:13 AM
Apropo of nothing, a friend of mine once brought 'All Your Bouillabaisse Are Belong To Us' to a food party once....
Posted by NBarnes | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:39 AM
If it was a food party, then wasn't it apropos of the theme?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:47 AM
The best soup to prepare the way for salmon, would be a chilled potato-leek soup. (This has a French name but I do not remember it.) Curry sauce is not a great choice with salmon according to my preferences but de gustibus. Dessert, berries with crème fraiche?
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:51 AM
76: 73 is a seasonal speciality in Girona province. Nowt wrong wi' Catalan snap.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:52 AM
vicchyssoise, it's called.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:53 AM
(except with only the one "c")
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:53 AM
And you've got your double s in the wrong place.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:54 AM
A Thai restaurant near me serves a salmon curry, so it didn't strike me as weird that someone might be trying it at home.
But it occurs to me that fish is a sort of risky proposition in general if you don't know if she likes fish. A lot of people don't or are picky about how it's prepared.
For dessert, something simple might be a good-quality vanilla ice cream topped with fresh berries and served with shortbread cookies.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 5:55 AM
Chopper's appetizer in 21 sounds extremely, extremely appetizing. I want some now! You're talking about fresh figs, right?
Posted by /vic | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:00 AM
And you've got your double s in the wrong place.
I'm pretty sure this is inaccurate. Bur if you're sure of your information I will bow to your superior skillz.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:02 AM
I concede.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:03 AM
Vichysoisse goes well with bouillabaise, but the cold leek soup is vichyssoise.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:05 AM
Five gets you ten Clownae is right.
I reckon chopper's menu is spot on, all the way through - seared tuna, not anchovies in the salad. If she doesn't like fresh tuna, what's the point?
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:06 AM
Mitch is exactly right, except for thinking that curry isn't a good summer thing. People: curry is FROM INDIA. Where it is often hot. Hello?
This makes no sense at all. None -- think about it -- why would food from a hot region be inappropriate for summer? In a hot region people develop a cuisine suited for eating in hot weather. I for one eat curry primarily in the summer. But then I enjoy sweating.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:09 AM
Lots of perfectly decent people don't like tuna. Or (nasty) coffee ice cream.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:10 AM
Oops sorry B, misread 36. Never mind 90.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:14 AM
91: De gustibus non disputandum. But such people should probably date each other.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:16 AM
The problem isn't with curry as such.
But only some kinds of 'curry' are going to work with i) salmon and ii) hot weather. And, with brown sugar.
I
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:27 AM
94 "only some kinds" s/b "no kind"
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:38 AM
My first course recommendation is a basil, mozzarella, and watermelon salad. Which I think someone else also recommended. I don't know if people are recommending vichyssoise and bouillabaisse or just talking about them, but these are not good date dinner recommendations.
I also totally second Ben's mussel suggestion. Get a big pot, heat some olive oil and toss in some garlic and lemongrass. When fragrant, add a couple of tablespoons of red curry paste, some white wine, and a can or so of coconut milk. Bring to a simmer, add your mussels, clamp on the lid, and wait three minutes.
Voila!
Posted by mrh | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:44 AM
I agree with the general thought that bisque sounds too heavy, and that brown sugar sounds funky on salmon. If our correspondant is nervous about this meal, I would suggest that he keep it simple and light, focus on getting the best quality ingredients, and plan a meal that has at most only one element to worry about.
Hows about this menu? Gazpacho, green salad and either seared fillets or steak, and melon and chocolate. Simple, healthy, and delicious!
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 6:59 AM
94: Presumably thinking of something like this. Might not be to everyone's taste, but they're not taking the piss.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:01 AM
The problem with salmon is, you have real trouble getting real salmon anymore. You get this pink glutinous stuff which has been farm-raised and dyed to the color they think you like, but which has no proper texture. If you ever get real salmon, which you sometimes can, you will instantly know the difference. And you will instantly know that such a fish doesn't require much in the way of sauces, but has a flavor and integrity all its own; you can roll it in some cracked peppper and rock salt, sear or grill it, and serve it with lemon and dill. In fact, any fish worth eating should stand up nicely to such treatment.
So far as who the real men are, here, the answer is evidently Cala and alameida---in summertime, real men cook whole meals on a charcoal grill. This is how you show off skills without looking like you're expending unseemly effort; grilling over charcoal requires an appreciation of high heat, the understanding that every fire is different, and that its idiosyncrasies need respect, that you can't just bull ahead and do what you want to do, but need to figure out where the hot spots are, and work them to good purpose.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:02 AM
Grilling for a date dinner doesn't seem like maybe trying too hard? Or at least posing too much risk of sweatiness?
Posted by mrh | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:12 AM
Grilling seems to me to imply effortlessness---it's outdoors, there's no pots and pans to clean up, so no muss no fuss. If you can do it, it's the very definition of casual. As for risk of sweatiness, I think kitchens in the summertime are just as risky as outdoors. Depends where you locate your grill, and how high you have your air conditioning turned up, of course.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:15 AM
Grilling isn't trying any harder than all of these 'make it as frennnnsch as possible' suggestions. Grilling is easy, you can both enjoy the evening outside and sip wine (or a good beer) and chat, and then you have lovely grilled meat. You can also cook corn on the grill.
Damn. Now I wants me some fine steak.
One other thing: you can cook something new, but you really shouldn't try to cook beyond your abilities on a date where you want to be cool and relaxed, not wondering what goes in next in your frennnnnnnncsh sauce requiring perfect timing.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:19 AM
Cold cucumber/yogurt soup, tomato and basil salad, for dessert peaches in a puree of raspberries with cream, or possibly a nice mango sorbet for dessert, and for the main course, I dunno. Chicken kebab or something.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:29 AM
Our mysterious correspondant might live in a apartment with no terrace and a dinky kitchen.
If he can grill and has a place to do it, that would be a great idea. (Skirt steak, marinated in olive oil, salt, pepper, lime juice, and massive quantities of chopped onions, yum.) If his kitchen isn't a poorly lit, hot, nasty little alley, then he might be cool hanging out there with his date watching him put the finishing touches on the next round.
Gotta work what you got.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:31 AM
Wow, that sounds like a relatively elaborate meal. This guy must know what he's doing, I hope. I've found cooking to impress to be a disasterous strategy if one can't actually cook and the food comes out awful. (Actually, this can potentially be endearing, says some women I know, but only if the guy has scored some seriously big points already in other ways.)
Anyway, all this fancy cooking makes me a little suspicious that Becks' acquaintance might be gay. Also, I'm starting to wonder whether my 12-day-old baby boy might be gay. I know he's still a little young to be sure, but he has a few distinctly effeminate gestures and posturing.
Posted by Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:33 AM
re: 99
There's nothing specifically manly about cooking over flames.
As this photo proves.
http://static.flickr.com/61/210927439_6aac2e6784_o.jpg
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:36 AM
Yes, he should grill if he can. When I met my wife I couldn't. so I didn't start off this way, but there was strong incentive to learn. If he's done it at least several times and has any kind of outdoor space at all, it's what I would advise.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:37 AM
Our mysterious correspondant might live in a apartment with no terrace and a dinky kitchen.
This is true (he could have my kitchen, for example). I just wanted to say that if you can grill, grilling isn't trying too hard; you can also sear meat in a grill pan.
But he sounds like he has at least some cooking skills and some equipment, since newbies don't try bisques.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:39 AM
Also, all the grilling suggestions win.
Posted by Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:39 AM
The other nice thing about grilling, if you can, is that it doesn't heat up the whole house.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:43 AM
Skirt steak is appropriate for fajitas, but otherwise it's not a high-quality cut. If Lothario can grill, he should consider doing tuna, and while he surely knows that searing tuna over a charcoal chimney is superior way to prepare it, he might want to consider using the surface of the grill and making it just a little more done than he knows is right.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 7:53 AM
There's nothing specifically manly about cooking over flames.
Well, some people are beyond redemption. You had really blond hair as a kid, though.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:20 AM
I've never been a big fan of grilling but the second half of slol's 99 now has me convinced.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:23 AM
he should consider doing tuna
Tuna is higher-risk than steak, though. Tuna you basically ought to eat rare, and not everybody likes that. But if you cook it too much, it tastes like that stuff you get in a can. Steak, there's some margin of acceptability extending up to medium.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:25 AM
the second half of slol's 99 now has me convinced
Becks appreciates what I'm talking about.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:26 AM
115 -- Becks is hitting on you.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:29 AM
Becks is apparently convinced because alameida and I are men.
Tuna is easy, but tricky if someone doesn't like fish or rare fish. And lots of people who aren't food-inclined don't like fish because most of the fish they have had has sucked.
Well-done tuna defeats the purpose of tuna. Steak, of course, has the whole anti-red-meat problem, which is a different kind of problem but easier to suss out.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:35 AM
All the grilling talk is out of place, given that our hero appears to be a New Yorker. Odds are he has no place to grill. And tuna isn't all that unforgiving -- it needs to be a little rare, but even cooked through it's tasty. Broiled tuna sounds like a fine idea. And probably manly enough to satisfy the British Isles contingent. (Whatis that? Salmon is gay? Bears eat salmon -- they aren't gay. (No, not those kind of bears. You people are hopeless.))
I would suggest, again given the heat and the fact that this appears to be an attempt at a show-off meal, having a pitcher of cocktails made in the fridge -- something summery and refreshing. (I've been drinking a lot of margaritas at home lately, but anything summery is good.) If she's going to be watching you cook, having something a little more interesting than a beer or a glass of wine to hand her when she arrives should get points. (Assuming, of course, she drinks, and that you can figure out how to mix a tasty cocktail rather than something foul.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:36 AM
And everyone's right that my suggested salad is too autumnal. But it still isn't a Waldorf, or anything like one.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:39 AM
Gin and tonic is easy to mix, and very nice in the heat of summer.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:40 AM
Nice, but not showoffy. I was thinking of something with fruit juice in it, or rum: a silly, tasty drink.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:42 AM
Sangria.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:43 AM
alameida and I are men
You know I was kidding, right? I wouldn't ask except.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:46 AM
Sangria is a good suggestion.
I'm kinda with the British Islanders on the salmon, not that I would exactly call it gay, since I don't do that, but it is a little prissy. It's the fish you eat when you're a kid and you're intimidated by real fish and ew ew ew what's that thing in a shell and you're eating something with suckers?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:47 AM
Daiquiris are easy and show-offy enough when you start with fresh strawberries rather than nasty pre-mix.
Margaritas are nice, but make sure you know how you react to tequila. It pretty much kills my brain after one drink.
Sangria is nice and great with cherries in it.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:48 AM
I do have a sense of humor. I was taken aback in the other thread, I think, by the possibility of 'Smasher getting laid. Thou Shalt Not Go There, and all that.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:49 AM
That kind of thing. I'm not fond of sangria myself, but I understand there are reasonable people who are.
(You know, we really don't have quite enough information to give advice here. Is this a seduction -- that is are they not yet involved, but he's hoping they will be -- or is it an 'early in the relationship nice dinner'? In the first case, KISS. Good ingredients, but as simple as possible. You don't want to be focusing on the food, and you don't want to screw up. A good piece of fish, a simple salad (sliced ripe tomatoes, or whatever), and berries with either cream or some kind of appropriate booze sprinkled over them. If you're already sleeping together, on the other hand, you can show off.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:50 AM
Get her blasted enough and she won't care what you cook anyway. I once gave a dinner party preceded by shots of neat, overproof Finnish vodka straight from the freezer. A great time was had by all.
I can't believe that Saurianbreath has ever had real salmon if she can't see the problem with what comes into shops. The only guaranteed non-gay fish is the stuff you have caught yourself. Send him up into the Catskills to catch a brook trout or something. If they have any left there.
Posted by Andrew Brown | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:51 AM
I can't believe that Saurianbreath has ever had real salmon if she can't see the problem with what comes into shops.
Jesus you people are all snobs. Yes, absolutely, wild salmon is infinitely better than the farmed stuff. And I personally only eat pheasant, hand raised in a Japanese temple by Shinto monks. Do you know what wild salmon costs? And the farmed stuff isn't disgusting, just blander and duller.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:53 AM
Does no one think that the show-off meal is inherently uncomfortable? (Admission: Of course I've done the show-off meal.)
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:56 AM
I have to agree with LB here. Wild salmon is better than farmed, but for crying out loud, cooking was invented to deal with less than perfect ingredients. You think the French came up with all of those sauces because their meat was perfect?
If you can get the wild salmon, great, but you're just trying to get laid here, right? Not apply for a cooking job.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:56 AM
Say: somebody (Mr. H) above said that vichyssoise is not good for a date dinner and I'm wondering why -- is it too heavy? It seems nice to me, and the ideal accompaniment to salmon on a hot night. Agreed that boullabaise would be an awful choice. I'm just now thinking about what a nice dinner would be: gin and tonic, vichyssoise, poached salmon served just warm, some kind of salad consisting of baby greens and a lot of parsley and chives with oil and vinegar dressing, served with an Alsatian white wine, and watermelon or berries or sorbet for dessert. most everything can be made in advance except the fish which is not a labor-intensive dish.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:56 AM
I think the cocktails are a good idea even if she doesn't drink.
Salmon is alright. Salmon with brown sugar less so, though probably better than tuna with brown sugar.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:58 AM
I find them uncomfortable, sorta, but they're part of the fun ritual of dating. My biggest problem with the show-off meal is staying out of the kitchen.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:58 AM
re: 112
That's not me. That's one of my czech nephews and was taken a week or so ago.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:59 AM
What's wrong with my getting laid? I have needs extending beyond seeing Yes Bruce Nauman at Zwirner & Wirth, ya know.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:59 AM
cooking was invented to deal with less than perfect ingredients
Yeah, but we want to help the guy KISS. If you want to do that, you want to have higher-quality ingredients, and less value-added recipes.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 8:59 AM
There's something about potato soup that seems too heavy for August.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:00 AM
re: 124
Yes, that's right. Salmon is fish for people who don't really like fish.
Plus, for me, it has a texture that I don't really like. I cook it fairly often as my wife really likes salmon but I'd prefer any one of a dozen other types of fish.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:01 AM
The anti-salmon contingent would be ridiculed mercilessly if they spouted that ignorant rubbish here in the Pacific Northwest, as would anyone who desecrated a good piece of fish with a brown sugar sauce.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:01 AM
re: 140
I'm Scottish. That's 'salmon country' too.
It still mings.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:03 AM
137: It's not like lemon, butter, and dill on farm-raised salmon is that labor-intensive. Knowing the budget would be good here, too.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:03 AM
I don't really disagree with 76, actually. I was trying to get at something like LB's 127 -- keep the kitchen stuff simple, make sure some parts are done in advance, and then you can do the simple, fun stuff like slicing berries for dessert while conversing. Because at least for me, if I enjoy my friend's (or friends') company too much, I tend to do absurd things like add the sugar twice to the brownies, or forget about the roasted red peppers until they are beyond blackened and into inedible.
And if I concentrate too much on the cooking, I don't make a mistake...but I miss all kind of conversational openings. Which, when there are no other guests to pick up the slack, can be awkward. And if this evening is meant to lead to more such dates...yeah, you don't want to be missing the low-hanging fruit. So to speak.
Posted by Witt | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:05 AM
Vichyssoise has both potatoes and cream, which does make it pretty heavy for a summer soup. A carrot soup with a little ginger and parsley would be better, or the roasted red pepper soup mentioned above.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:06 AM
I change my vote to vichyssoise! but use olive oil instead of butter- butter makes a cold soup taste greasy.
Posted by Blume | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:09 AM
How about Elizabeth David's Kedgeree? It needs smoked haddock, which may be hard to find, but I have made it very often in a wok, and it is relatively simple, unusual, and not too heavy. Essentially, it's a very fancy form of one pot cooking.
Anyway, I have just noticed the clinching anti-salmon argument: what's seasonal about them in August?
Posted by Andrew Brown | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:09 AM
Smoked haddock is great.
In an act of heresy I quite often make a thai fish soup/curry using smoked haddock. For salty goodness.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:11 AM
Comity: I can sign up for roasted red pepper soup.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:13 AM
140: Pacific salmon are different species.
Posted by Andrew Brown | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:13 AM
It doesn't have to have cream! And since you serve it cold it already has added thickness over a hot soup. You can make the vichyssoise with very little potato, and with whole milk instead of cream. Using a good stock is key here.
Posted by Blume | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:14 AM
149: several different species, in fact.
Posted by Andrew Brown | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:14 AM
Andrew, we haven't lost a sense of season about what foods to eat in what weather, and about fruits and vegatables that may be locally grown, but about meats and fishes, which come from faraway climes anyway, we mostly have.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:15 AM
You're talking about fresh figs, right?
Yup.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:15 AM
144 -- you can lighten vichyssoise by using yoghurt instead of cream and have it still taste very good. Agreed with Blume that olive oil is the way to go.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:15 AM
If you're going to do a sangria, I'd recommend a white-wine sangria instead of a red-wine sangria. Less likely to overwhelm the food. You could try one with peaches and cherries, perhaps. Although, I don't know if that's really necessary. I think wine is sufficient. He's got enough going on with the meal that elaborate mixed drinks could be overkill.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:16 AM
I defer to Blume as the vichyssoise expert. Listen to what she is telling you, guys.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:17 AM
A lot of this stuff sounds really good. I am not a very good cook and not creative with recipes? Could we arrange some cooking meetups?
It is possible to get frozen wild fish which is not bad. Most sushi fish has been frozen--unless you're right next to teh fish market in Japan. It's actually a bit fresher than fish that's been sitting on a fishing boat for several weeks. The fresh Atlantic Fish that Whole Foods carries comes from day boats, not great trawlers so that they can make sure that it's fresh.
Both Whole Foods and Trader Joe's carry reasonably priced, forzen, wild fish.
Salads: Maybe this is too heavy for summer, but I like it. I make a spinach salad with walnuts and a little bit of blue cheese, mushrooms, thinly sliced or shaved white onions and mandarin oranges. I get the oranges from a can, but fresh would probably be better.
Posted by Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:19 AM
I'd bet Lothario is either really inspired right now or so overwhelmed by his options that he's running for takeout menus.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:19 AM
154: Ditto on the olive oil, and even the whole milk, but a lot of people find that yoghurt tang to be off-putting.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:20 AM
157 -- cooking or potluck meetups would be a lot of fun. What about a potluck picnic in Central Park or Riverside Park, sometime in August or September?
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:21 AM
157 -- your spinach salad is missing bacon, which I have always found to be a key ingredient for spinach salad. I would substitute it for the blue cheese. (But then I would also not put oranges in, and it would be a different salad.)
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:23 AM
Most sushi fish has been frozen--unless you're right next to teh fish market in Japan.
I've heard, though I have no first-hand knowledge, that the obsession with fresh-never-frozen sushi fish is an American phenomenon.
A cooking meetup sounds like fun! And BG, I'm not a good cook either, at least not by these standards, i.e., LB and the giant callalilly cake.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:23 AM
157: Sounds like a great salad, but if making out is in the plans, I would hesitate to serve blue cheese or raw onion.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:24 AM
Okay, I confess ignorance about the figs. People around here rave about them. What exactly do you do with them? They seem to have an awful lot of seeds, and an unforgiving rind, or peel, or whatever. Help me out.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:24 AM
searing tuna over a charcoal chimney is superior way to prepare it
This is sheer bloody genius. Can't wait to try it. Hell, I'm going to try it the next time I get filet mignon.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:25 AM
152: well, OK. But fish do have seasons, connected with their spawning times, even if they are frozen. Back when I had a freezer and used to put a lot of fish in it, I would notice that they went off a little after two or three weeks, let alone six months. So if you're buying frozen fish off a day boat there is probably a seasonal cycle to what's good.
Posted by Andrew Brown | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:27 AM
Say: somebody (Mr. H) above said that vichyssoise is not good for a date dinner and I'm wondering why -- is it too heavy?
This is what I had in mind. Also: potatoes != sexy.
Posted by mrh | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:28 AM
163: Good point, jmcq. I wasn't really making a suggestion about what our anonymous reader should make as I was trying to combat the idea that nuts and cheese are too heavy for summer.
Posted by Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:29 AM
164: We just grilled 'em, wrapped in foil. And I think I ate the whole thing, except the stem. Very tasty, despite having taken on smokiness from wood chips due to what else I was cooking.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:30 AM
For dessert, I recommend they both start eating a banana from each end till their lips meet in the middle.
Posted by Adam Ash | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:31 AM
164 -- you eat fig seeds along with the fruit. if you are eating the fig raw, you scrape the fruit off the inside of the rind and throw the rind out, but I think once cooked the rind is edible and tasty too.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:32 AM
164: Take off the stems. That's it. The key is to get very ripe figs. Peaches would also work with the skewer recipe above if you cna't find ripe fresh figs.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:33 AM
(Wait there aren't any large, hard seeds in figs right?)
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:34 AM
Now I remember we did skewer them; that's how they got so smokey.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:35 AM
162: sushi fish in the U.S. has indeed been frozen, but this usually means that it is exposed to an extremely low temperature for a matter of moments. Kills some kind of critters that might be in there. The texture is mostly preserved, though, unlike the frozen fish fillets you buy at the store.
Posted by Blume | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:35 AM
168: You are, of course, absolutely right. I could go for a glass of Sauternes with walnuts and Roquefort right now, and it's not even 9 am here.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:35 AM
Empanada Mama in NYC serves a dessert empanada of figs, caramel, and brie that is divine. Not saying for anyone [esp. Lothario] to make empanadas (too greasy) but that would be a great flavor combination to translate into something else.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:35 AM
searing tuna over a charcoal chimney is superior way to prepare it
Yeah, that's an absurdly bright idea. So you put the grill face over the chimney, is that the idea? No balance problems?
And then you load the coals into the grill proper and cook the corn, peaches, or wrapped-fig thingies. (Chopper, I also confess fignorance—what to do to prepare them?)
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:36 AM
Ooh, if you have a grill, you could make kebabs with beef, shrimp, red pepper, onion, and mushrooms. mmmmmmm.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:36 AM
If you're worried about onions and making out, you can always blanche the onions before putting them in the salad. Yeah it's an added step, but onions are delicious!
A yummy salad out of the San Francisco a la Carte cookbook: romaine lettuce, purple onions, halved grapes, sectioned and chopped oranges, sliced avocado, and balsamic vingrette.
Of course, outside of California, avocados are ruinously expensive and often not very good. Note: all avocado must be Haas avocados. That bigass green thing from North Africa? Not an avocado.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:37 AM
So you put the grill face over the chimney, is that the idea?
Uh, 'smasher, it was your idea, wasn't it?
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:38 AM
Note: all avocado must be Haas avocados
Hass avocados, I think; but yes.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:39 AM
ANother appetizer skewer: Marinate some fresh squid in olive oil, a little white wine vinegar or lemon juice (careful too not use too much--you don't want to make ceviche), garlic, and herbs de provence, cut into bite size pieces, then thread onto skewers with purple bell pepper, cherry or small plum tomatoes, and eggplant chunks (brush the vegetables with the marinade). Grill brieflyy over high heat to get some scorch marks, then move to a cooler spot over the fire until the tomatoes are completely soft, just about ready to fall off the skewer.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:39 AM
ooh, the avocados of hate.
Posted by Blume | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:39 AM
Here's a question: is squid supposed to be rubbery, or have I never had it prepared properly?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:43 AM
Sorry, oops—I have a lurker/sometimes-commenter visiting, and that's weird, but 178 is his. Everyone, say hi to Jon.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:45 AM
Yeah, that's an absurdly bright idea. So you put the grill face over the chimney, is that the idea?
I was thinking you would just hold the fish in the the flame using long metal tongs (with insulate handles, obvs.). The idea would be to sear the fuck out of the surface very quickly while leaving the inside raw, even cool (not cold, though, you lose too much flavor--leave the fish out on the counter for a half hour before grilling it).
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:45 AM
I started cooking on the chimney during a father-son camping trip with my son a couple of years ago. Leaders didn't drink coffee. You turn the chimney upside down, to bring the coals into proximity: it leaves a depth of about four inches. The grill from a small Weber, say twelve inch, balances perfectly on top. I put a percolator on top of that, and then later began cooking other things, only using the full grill for major meals. Fast, small, clean, and a comfortable waist-level height when put into a grill for safety.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:46 AM
re: 185
In my experience it's usually slightly rubbery. It's still delicious.
If it's really rubbery, it's not cooked well.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:46 AM
I always assumed that at some point, the Haas family had a lot of money in avocado farms, since their name was plastered on every building in town. Huh.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:47 AM
Hell, if you did this for the steak, you could brush on a melted butter, shallot, and cognac mixture and flambe the bastard right in the chimney. Talk about a wow factor!
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:48 AM
I think we should all go to Chopper's house for lunch.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:51 AM
I've said that before. Way back in the mists of the past he was talking about things to do with carrots that had me making little whimpering noises. Let alone the home-cured meats.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:58 AM
Yeah, that's an absurdly bright idea. So you put the grill face over the chimney, is that the idea?
Please see the tuna episode of Good Eats for a demonstration of how this is done.
Posted by mrh | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 9:59 AM
Good god, did someone actually defend farmed salmon upthread? It is not only disgusting, it is quite literally poisonous if you eat a lot of it. They are kept in conditions not much better than battery chickens. I would be more likely to serve my guests boiled cat.
Posted by dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:00 AM
Do you have a good recipe for boiled cat?
Posted by Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:05 AM
Cat is more properly poached, and served with rice.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:06 AM
Oh, go suck on a charcoal briquette. Sorry, I mean a lump of natural hardwood charcoal.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:07 AM
Squid should not be rubbery. Bit chewy, but rubbery sounds unpleasant.
I can't decide between Chopper and Clownae's menus - do you two fancy having some kind of cook-off so I can choose? I'll come to you, or you can come here, either suits me.
I never really liked fish, but then a few years ago I decided that saying "I don't like fish" is a really stupid thing to say, seeing as there are hundreds of different varieties of fish, and surely they can't all taste like fish fingers? I eat it quite a lot now when I'm out, but I'm still rather nervous of cooking it.
Still can't face shellfish though - if I went on a date dinner and got served mussels, I'm not sure what I'd do.
Posted by asilon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:10 AM
So would anyone, but good cat is even harder to get than wild salmon.
I think that all the wild salmon go to Japan, where they love to pay a premium price for almost anything.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:14 AM
all the wild salmon go to Japan
You can get it at Costco.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:19 AM
So my theory is, the Step Beyond in metrosexuality and sensitivity is getting really good at doing laundry. Soon every guy will be a good cook, like the guys here, and the ladies will be all ho-hum about that. But the guy who can get things whiter-than-white, and not ruin the delicates, that's a really special guy.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:25 AM
So would anyone, but good cat is even harder to get than wild salmon.
These days. My grandmother remembered seeing "rabbits" hanging outside a butcher's shop in east London, whose heads had quite clearly been sewn on with a needle and thread.
Posted by OneFat Englishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:27 AM
Fresh milk (great comments), wild salmon, &c., all shipped air express.
Sorry, no cat. Anyway that's too common.
Posted by md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:28 AM
202 - Dude, if I found a guy who liked doing laundry, I'd marry him.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:43 AM
203 is crying out for photoshop. The marmelade rabbit!
Posted by Andrew Brown | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:47 AM
My plan would be to hang out in the Milan laundromat where the up-and-coming young supermodels did their laundry, and say helpful things like "You really don't have to presoak that as long as you use XXXX soap and set the machine at YYYY. Here, why don't I show you?"
As soon as one of them hit big, I'd be doing her laundry full time, if you know what I mean.
This is all theory. In actual fact, I wash everything the same way, and throw away everything that seems to need some kind of special handling.
Perhaps a laundry school for ambitious young guys could be started. Sure, it would be more authentic to do laundry the old-country way your Sicilian grandmother did it, but my grandmother came from Iowa.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:56 AM
But the guy who can get things whiter-than-white, and not ruin the delicates, that's a really special guy.
How a guy who's never been married is supposed to know about the delicates, absent fetishism, is beyond me.
I have this knowledge and skill, as some of you may remember, but I came by it honestly.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 10:56 AM
The guy hanging out at the laundromat offering to do laundry would have to be really good at deactivating supermodels' "creep" sensors. The school would teach that.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:00 AM
205: I like doing laundry and it's my domain in our house because Roberta doesn't approach it with the OCD particularity that I require. I can even fold a fitted sheet properly. NC has bigamy laws on the books, but you could come be our concubine, Becks.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:05 AM
God, y'all are way to fancy for me. If I showed up to a meal of squid and bouillabaisse and flambe of Great Pretentiousness, I'd either be intimidated or scornfull or both in rapid succession. Unless he's a professional chef, why all the fuss? Summer spaghetti (before I clicked the link, which specified meatballs) sounded just dandy to me, as I imagined noodles with some good summer tomatoes and olive oil and maybe some capers or roasted red peppers (from a jar, even) tossed in. And crusty bread.
I agree you can't go wrong with fruit and/or chocolate for dessert, whatever looks good at the market, which would be peaches right now where I am. Grilled peaches sounds perfect, or even peach pie (but I'm the sort that would buy the Pillsbury roll-out crusts, so I probably don't count).
My grandfather had fig trees on his farm, and Grandmother would serve them ripe and cold out of the fridge. Just cold figs in a bowl, and I loved them. It's hard to find ripe figs off the farm, though, as they have such a short season and they rot so quickly. If they're so hard they have a "rind," they aren't ripe and you shouldn't bother.
Anyway, what I'm saying is this all sounds like "trying too hard" to me, and I agree he should keep it simple. And he should *ask her first* if she has any food allergies/restrictions/preferences. I mean, I'd eat whatever he served out of politeness, but I'd secretly be thinking "mussels? yech."
Posted by Wrenae | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:06 AM
Becks, a lot of guys who brag about their laundry skills on the internet actually have several ex-wives mouldering in their crawl space. Sniff around a bit when you meet him.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:09 AM
I can even fold a fitted sheet properly
That's a skill I did have before marriage, and impressed more than one woman with. Many women hate and resent laundry, and are not very good at it. Actually, a milder version of John's scenario gets the ball rolling in Steve Martin's Shopgirl
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:11 AM
Many women hate and resent laundry, and are not very good at it.
I'm very close to my feminine side in that respect.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:12 AM
212: My ex-wife lives around the corner from me and can provide laundering references.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:15 AM
Also, my house is on a slab, so no crawlspace. You will not be allowed in the attic, though.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:16 AM
I hate doing laundry but don't mind ironing at all. If apostropher (or Roberta) is also all about the vacuuming, I might just have to move down South.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:16 AM
I refuse even to try to fold a fitted sheet properly.
But I rather enjoy hand washing, which stimulates some Muscular-Christianity pleasure center I keep hidden away.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:16 AM
I hate doing laundry but don't mind ironing at all.
SCORE! Neither one of us has ironed anything in years. We just wear clothes wrinkled.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:17 AM
I don't mind ironing that much. I end up ironing my wife's clothes much more often that she would iron mine.
However, most things don't really *need* ironing and my natural laziness wins out.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:20 AM
I refuse even to try to fold a fitted sheet properly.
In the best circles, this is recognised as the right approach. Also, there are only two kinds of laundry besides hand washing - stuff that needs a slow spin so it dries without creasing too much, and the rest.
Posted by OneFat Englishman | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:20 AM
Laundry's not so tough—learning how and when to use bleach and fabric softener and paying for the good detergents &c. is all there is to it.
Among chores, I'm fond of washing dishes, but I despise dusting. I definitely hope to find a mate who takes some satisfaction in it or is at least willing to do it, because I'm just not.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:20 AM
I despise dusting and hoovering and I'm not too keen on dish washing.
However, I'll happily clean the bath, scrub toilets, do laundry, iron clothes, etc. And I do most of the cooking.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:23 AM
Grilling on a date???? Not until the relationship's well established. Otherwise it's just totally to "manly man" and strongly suggests the guy doesn't know how to cook anything else.
You people are unimaginative. The salmon sauce sounds to me like the guy knows *exactly* what he's doing in the kitchen; it's a bit unusual, but it sounds good. And of course wild salmon is better, but suck it up, gourmands: if we all insist on eating only wild fish, the overfishing problem is gonna mean there won't be any left soon. (And tuna? Much as I love it, don't poison your date.)
As to laundry, we don't iron either. But I can confirm that a man who does laundry is teh hott. Mr. B. does ours, and has for years, though he doesn't iron and tends to let it sit clean in a basket for ages, which ensures we are often wrinkly (and is also one reason why most of my better clothes are dry-clean only). The boyfriend does his (and mine, when I visit) and is such a perfectionist that he folds even tshirts with a shirt cardboard, so his stuff never needs ironing.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:38 AM
Um, "too."
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:39 AM
The boyfriend needs help.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:46 AM
suck it up, gourmands
This word, I don't think it means what you think it means.
Also, everything else you said is wrong, too. And especially, the not-ironing. Unless you're all wearing those fancy no-iron cotton clothes, which are, and I deploy this cliche with at least some reflection, the best invention since antibiotics.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:46 AM
In fact, I am wearing those fancy no-iron clothes. I do not iron.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:48 AM
folds even tshirts with a shirt cardboard
I had a roommate once who worked a summer at The Gap. Her closet was a thing of wonder. Watching me fold clothes stressed her out so much that she would take the basket out of my hands and just fold it for me. Boy do I miss her.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:50 AM
No one irons here. I think my partner ironed a shirt for a job interview 4 years ago. And I told him when we moved in together that I don't do washing up (i.e. dishes), although I'm quite happy to do it at other people's houses, just not at home. He does most of the cleaning, I do most of the laundry and cooking.
Posted by asilon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:52 AM
I deploy this cliche with at least some reflection, the best invention since antibiotics.
Wait, when did that become the cliche?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:53 AM
Slol is right, I should have said gourmets. My bad. And I prefer ironed clothes myself, but I'm not gonna nag my husband about how he does laundry--what do you think I am, stupid?
226 is true, of course, but again: I'm gonna point this out? Hell no.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:54 AM
Dry-cleaning seems to me like the biggest scam in the world. Clothing manufacturers are getting a cut from the dry-cleaning people every time they put one of those "dry clean only" tags on items that could so totally be hand-washed, or washed gently and line-dried. The only items I get dry-cleaned have lining.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:55 AM
We iron about equally, our own things mostly. And the shirt cardboard is a good trick, because it saves time and aggravation. If you're going to do laundry, it's a small thing that pays big dividends.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:55 AM
By "ironing" we all mean "selecting the launder and press option at the drycleaner's," no? What's so hard about dropping off clothes?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:58 AM
"This shirt is dry-clean only, which means it's dirty." - Mitch Hedberg
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:59 AM
Wait, when did that become the cliche?
I meant, "the best invention since" was the cliche, and I changed the ending because, really, are we gonna disagree that antibiotics outrank no-iron cotton? I mean, it rules, but I'd rather be alive and wrinkly. Even my sense of propriety has its limits.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 11:59 AM
What's so hard about dropping off clothes?
Dropping them off is easy. It's the paying for them when you pick them up that presents the obstacle for me.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:00 PM
236 gets it exactly right. I dryclean my blazers and some sweaters. My work doesn't require much in the way of formal dress. Or clothing, in fact.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:01 PM
Yep, Apo's right. This is another thing you bastards without children won't understand.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:02 PM
238 gets it exactly right. I deeply resent paying for dry cleaning clothes that I suspect would do just fine in the washamachine.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:02 PM
I don't like dry cleaning because it requires so much advance planning. You mean I was supposed to realize two days ago that I wanted to wear that sweater tomorrow?
(Yes, I know there are places with same day service but the place with free pickup and delivery to my building has a three day turnaround and I am super lazy.)
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:08 PM
Daiquiris are easy and show-offy enough when you start with fresh strawberries rather than nasty pre-mix.
Unless I'm mistaken, strawberries are neither rum, lime juice, nor sugar, and thus do not go in a daiquiri.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:10 PM
I had a really good cold carrot-mint soup with slivers of roasted almond a few weeks ago.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:19 PM
Aha! Combine one of the tangents with the main topic and IRON THE SALMON! The hell with poaching and grilling and what not. Just haul out the tin foil, plug in the Rowenta and there you are...
Posted by DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:43 PM
That somehow reminds me of a cookbook I saw once describing methods of cooking all sorts of things by wrapping them in tinfoil, tucking them in strategic places under the hood of your car, and driving around.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:52 PM
Rum-Mango Sorbet: 1 big can Alphonse mango pulp (available at any Indian grocery); 1/4 cup fresh mint; 1 tbs. lime juice (less maybe? I don't remember); 1/3 cup good rum. Mix and freeze (use an ice cream maker for the best results). Thaw a little before serving-- it's best when it's creamy.
Posted by Vardaman! | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:55 PM
Asilon (230): who did the washing up when you lived alone? Or did you never? Seems weird to me.
Posted by NL | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:59 PM
Oh, re 247: finely mince the mint.
Posted by Vardaman! | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 12:59 PM
Grilling on a date???? Not until the relationship's well established. Otherwise it's just totally to "manly man" and strongly suggests the guy doesn't know how to cook anything else.
You're on crack. Anybody who makes prosciutto-fig-goat cheese skewers knows how to cook. Sure, it's easy, but the idea is not to necessarily show mastery of a specific technique but to demonstrate understanding of how flavors work together, implying that future meals will be equally good, complex or not.
The Nicoise salad is sophisticated (it's French), healthy (shit, it'ssalad, and tasty. It requires only minimal competence (blanch the green beans, boil the eggs, grill the tuna steak, dress the greens). You can do everything ahead, except dressing the greens, grilling the fish, and spooning out a little mayo to go with the fish.
The s'mores dessert is perfect, because she gets to participate in grilling the marshmallows. It's casual, it's fun, and with really good chocolate, her socks will be knocked off.
If you can't score with this menu, I've got nothing for you.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 1:01 PM
I agree with Chopper that the manliness of a grill can be offset by a good salad.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 1:05 PM
When Unfogged moves into its coop house in NY, I will shop for groceries, and dust, but I will not vacuum.
Posted by mcmc | Link to this comment | 08- 9-06 1:06 PM
Oh, 250 is fine; that particular menu/grilling option would work. And I agree 100% about the fig skewers. But this is totally not anywhere in the same ballpark as the originally-proposed menu; it's a completely different date. And the subsequent "yes, grilling is better than cooking" thing is just weird. Grilling can be a lovely date, I just wouldn't do it too early on because of issues like heat, mosquitoes, and it requiring actually standing over the grill most of the time. Whereas the originally proposed meal (or the alteration with salad) can mostly be done in advance, with the exception of the fish. Plus, god forbid the woman wear something a little dressy to a date. I hate it when I wear, say, silk and then end up on an unexpected picnic. (Though of course, if you *say* the plan is to get out the grill, then that's fine.)
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