There was a story, maybe on sportscenter, a few years ago about the build up of the effects of concussions over time. Apparently a not insignificant number of football players and former football players sometimes find themselves unable to remember their phone numbers or how to get home after going out, and a few take the extra step of carrying that information with them on a card in case of a lapse.
Totally agree that the concussion issue is wicked creepy. Former Pittsburgh FB Merril Hodge (I think) tells the story of havign breakfast the day after a big hit. He lifts a forkful of eggs, but they're too hot, so he's blowing on them to cool them off. He's blowing, and blowing, and then realizes that he has actually got an orange on the end of his fork.
Off topic, how irritating is it to hear Jimmy Conners constantly lauded for his competitveness and old statesmen-ness? When he played, he was a jerk.
Last, can it really be true that the "not nice" thread is discussing linda hirshman now? Weird.
I would say that a close reading of the thread, which I wouldn't advise anyone to engage in, would reveal it as not particularly a discussion of Hirshman.
Yeah, I don't like the severity and frequency of the injuries either. And the championship pretty much comes down to The Healthiest Team Wins.
This is one of the reasons that I've been enjoying college football more. The injuries just don't seem to be as devastating. And as a bonus: field goal attempts are far iffier and more exciting.
ogged, maybe you should try rugby. the snees clan went to a club match yesterday -- i.e., nowhere near the level of the NFL or college football -- and we saw a guy collapse with a fit.
that might have put me off the sport, but we spent much of the first half chatting with the massive back who was positioned near us. because of his white hair and pasty complexion, his teammates had dubbed him chalky. if we had had the time, we probably would have spent three or four hours downing pints with him in the most civilized manner.
I don't really deeply dislike McEnroe, but it irks me when legitimately irritating athletes get better press than those who don't strut, don't scream at the umpire, and don't throw childish tantrums.
36: College ball is actually more brutal, I think, because they're so much shallower than the pro teams. The Badgers were basically one injury away from playing iron man on the line last year.
Would it kill them to once, just once, one tiny little time, to, when they're talking to/about Federer, not say "the best ever"? It's silly and tiresome.
So you're saying he's better than Rod Laver? And you say that based on what, exactly, Michael? And the man who's fourth in line to succeed the leader of the military wing of Hamas, do you know his name? You ignorant ass.
The strength and speed differences even from 30 years ago are tremendous. The powerlifting aspects of training are light years better, and throw in chemical enhancement on top of that, and it's bad news for those hits. We're also drawing from a bigger population, so what used to be freakishly large becomes normal.
ogged is definitely the faceman. when you guys have to bust me out of the mental ward, you should use ogged to distract the nurses. he'll pull that whole "hey, wanna see my groove" thing. it's like colt .45 malt liquor: works every time.
I don't really deeply dislike McEnroe, but it irks me when legitimately irritating athletes get better press than those who don't strut, don't scream at the umpire, and don't throw childish tantrums.
yes indeed, what everyone wants to see is an eternal tape loop of Sampras versus Rafter, chugging along until the end of time while we all have a screaming, weeping orgasm at their sheer professionalism. FFS.
in related news, suck it in, you pencil necked bastard. The injuries are the only interesting thing in American football. What it really needs is a few lions on the pitch to liven things up. Wait until the penny drops and the NFL starts realising that you can hire Maori rugby players for cents in the dollar. Then it will get violent.
There's a couple of dozen Samoans in the NFL. I doubt if they're qualitatively wimpier than Maori All Blacks. Expect a trend. However, pacific islanders outside American Samoa will probably continue to prefer Rugby unless the financial incentives are massive, because it's a faster, better game.
And requires less equipment. With a ball and a field, you're playing rugby. You're not really playing american football unless you have the pads and the helmets -- all the hitting is completely different.
I wish I could have seen a football game in the no substitution era. A really fast moving American football game would be quite entertaining, I think. It was a different game.
There's a couple of dozen Samoans in the NFL. I doubt if they're qualitatively wimpier than Maori All Blacks.
Although the All Blacks do consistently kick Manu Samoa's ass, don't they? But I think that's professionalism and coaching, not inherent agressiveness.
It's been thirty-five years since I've played with pads on, but the significance of armor, and the changes its wrought over time with design and materials development, really must be a big part of the difference in the game, as much as the changes in conditioning mentioned above. I wonder if any attempt has been made to play with different pads? It seems an obvious experiment.
In my personal experience, Samoans are actually sweethearts. I once taught a college summer course for football players; it was exactly as awful as you'd imagine, except for the Samoan quarterback.
Although funnily enough, despite being the quarterback, he didn't really seem to feel compelled to do anything to try to talk the other guys into cutting out the asshole act.
59 is onto something. There are lots of American football players from American Samoa (or with parents from there), but not many from the independent Polynesian countries. This article suggests that the recruitment of football players from Western Samoa is just beginning, and Western Samoa has way more people than American Samoa.
I considered that was a possiblity, but I'm accustomed to assume that the various clues that get dropped here are less likely to lead a stalker to hunt me down than if I dropped them on my own blog. But thanks.
That's interesting, though. I have no idea if he's gone on to play pro, but he was in fact a really nice kid.
And they're prettier, better brought up, sing better, and on average can kick American Samoans' asses.
But it's not going to happen unless some outside organization sets up and funds an American football program in Western Samoa. There's no tradition of playing Am. football - all the coaching would have to come from somewhere else - and funding for necessary equipment would be a huge problem.
On the other hand, I'm more than 10 years out of touch. There could be American football all over the land of the Forbidden Chicken, and I wouldn't know.
I read an article in the last few years that pro's are wearing much lighter pads because of the premium on speed. I can't find it, and I can't remember if they had evidence of increasing injuries or just worries.
I read an article a while back about the increase in rugby injuries.* The authors put it down to the increasing size of the backs -- the small, quick, skillful guys -- combined with the increasing speed of the forwards -- the huge, slow, lumbering guys.
Now, you find teams with 200lb backs who can run 100 metres in more than respectable college-level sprint times and 18 stone forwards who aren't hugely slower.
Even leaving aside guys like Jonah Lomu who was 273 lbs and could run 100 metres in 10.8 seconds, the modern rugby player is really quick and really heavy compared to those who went before.
* Although as far as I know serious career-ending rugby injuries are still rarer than in American Football.
59: I think it was the Denver Broncos that tried to poach Jonah Lomu from the All-Blacks about five years ago. Didn't go anywhere but in the future, who knows?
Oh, I used to tape the kids together after the games (as the possessor of a US government issued roll of adhesive tape and some disinfectant, I was kind of the school nurse.) But it's still a different kind of hitting from football.
To the best of my knowledge all the talk about Lomu going to American football was a beatup by his manager, trying to get him more money from rugby. (Since he was easily the highest-paid rugby player anyway, this was pushing it a bit.) You'd imagine that any Polynesian who did go into football would have to do so at the college level. It's hard to imagine any rugby player good enough to get a professional contract taking a chance on a new sport, even though the potential money is so much greater.
Uh, yeah. Two injuries like that in nine months ended MY career ... at the ripe old age of 14.
And then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting left tackle, Travelle Wharton, who blew out his knee Sunday and is done for the year. (For the non-fan, the left tackle protects a right-handed quarterback's blind side and is therefore the most valuable of the five offensive interior linemen.)
concussions
Yes, and then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting middle linebacker, Dan Morgan, who suffered at least his seventh concussion in five years Sunday and is out indefinitely. (For the non-fan, middle linebacker runs most NFL defenses; in a good defense, he'll typically lead the team in tackles over the course of a season.)
And then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting wideout, Steve Smith, the league's best receiver, who isn't playing because of a "tweaked" hamstring and recovery from surgery from an ingrown toenail.
22 might be your best comment ever, Timbot.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:51 PM
He's not still dating Hilary Duff, is he?
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:51 PM
I don't think so.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:00 PM
There was a story, maybe on sportscenter, a few years ago about the build up of the effects of concussions over time. Apparently a not insignificant number of football players and former football players sometimes find themselves unable to remember their phone numbers or how to get home after going out, and a few take the extra step of carrying that information with them on a card in case of a lapse.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:08 PM
Are the injuries really more serious nowadays?
I think the claimed problem is simply that people are much bigger and much stronger than in the past.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:11 PM
For some reason, I'm surprised that Tiger Woods wears his hat backwards.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:21 PM
Totally agree that the concussion issue is wicked creepy. Former Pittsburgh FB Merril Hodge (I think) tells the story of havign breakfast the day after a big hit. He lifts a forkful of eggs, but they're too hot, so he's blowing on them to cool them off. He's blowing, and blowing, and then realizes that he has actually got an orange on the end of his fork.
Off topic, how irritating is it to hear Jimmy Conners constantly lauded for his competitveness and old statesmen-ness? When he played, he was a jerk.
Last, can it really be true that the "not nice" thread is discussing linda hirshman now? Weird.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:23 PM
I think they've stopped.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:24 PM
I would say that a close reading of the thread, which I wouldn't advise anyone to engage in, would reveal it as not particularly a discussion of Hirshman.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:27 PM
More a meta-discussion, really. With lots of animosity.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:28 PM
Yeah, I don't like the severity and frequency of the injuries either. And the championship pretty much comes down to The Healthiest Team Wins.
This is one of the reasons that I've been enjoying college football more. The injuries just don't seem to be as devastating. And as a bonus: field goal attempts are far iffier and more exciting.
Posted by Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:30 PM
ogged, maybe you should try rugby. the snees clan went to a club match yesterday -- i.e., nowhere near the level of the NFL or college football -- and we saw a guy collapse with a fit.
that might have put me off the sport, but we spent much of the first half chatting with the massive back who was positioned near us. because of his white hair and pasty complexion, his teammates had dubbed him chalky. if we had had the time, we probably would have spent three or four hours downing pints with him in the most civilized manner.
Posted by peter snees | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:31 PM
Whatever. How much must it kill McEnroe to hear all the plaudits Connors is getting?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:31 PM
That's a big plus I hadn't thought of Tim. Thanks!
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:40 PM
You don't like McEnroe? He doesn't seem like a very good person in a lot of respects, but I can't help but like him.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:48 PM
I don't really deeply dislike McEnroe, but it irks me when legitimately irritating athletes get better press than those who don't strut, don't scream at the umpire, and don't throw childish tantrums.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:53 PM
36: College ball is actually more brutal, I think, because they're so much shallower than the pro teams. The Badgers were basically one injury away from playing iron man on the line last year.
Posted by Anarch | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:56 PM
Roddick has got to stop coming to net. Federer is picking him to pieces up there.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:59 PM
I should add, incidentally, that the only time I was ever concussed was during a game of flag football.
Posted by Anarch | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 5:24 PM
Would it kill them to once, just once, one tiny little time, to, when they're talking to/about Federer, not say "the best ever"? It's silly and tiresome.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 5:24 PM
41: Are you really distinguishing between McEnroe and Connors on the basis of tantrums?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 5:33 PM
I didn't mean to make any such distinction. I don't *deeply* dislike Conners either.
Michael, it's not such a crazy claim given what Federer has done and how good he is. At 25 Sampras had 8 Grand Slam titles...
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 5:55 PM
oh, I'm not denying it. I'm just sick of it being pointed out every couple of hours.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:00 PM
So you're saying he's better than Rod Laver? And you say that based on what, exactly, Michael? And the man who's fourth in line to succeed the leader of the military wing of Hamas, do you know his name? You ignorant ass.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:37 PM
That kind of acrimonious tone should be reserved for threads on feminism in which everyone is agreed on 99% of all issues of substance.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:41 PM
The strength and speed differences even from 30 years ago are tremendous. The powerlifting aspects of training are light years better, and throw in chemical enhancement on top of that, and it's bad news for those hits. We're also drawing from a bigger population, so what used to be freakishly large becomes normal.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:50 PM
And tennis is for poofs.
Posted by gswift | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:52 PM
insofar as we like to see whether a plan for a team will come together
I always pictured you more as Murdock than Hannibal, ogged.
Posted by Josh | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 7:31 PM
Huh. I always assumed ogged was Face.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 7:34 PM
You likey the A-Team reference? Definitely more Face than Murdock.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 7:42 PM
remember, losing is what the Bills do.
I don't know shit about football and I know this.
Posted by Paul | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 8:42 PM
49: You can't pull the wool over my eyes, Ogged. "Rod Laver" is obviously a gay porn star.
I'm not sure about the second query, but my guess is "mel gibson".
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 9:24 PM
ogged is definitely the faceman. when you guys have to bust me out of the mental ward, you should use ogged to distract the nurses. he'll pull that whole "hey, wanna see my groove" thing. it's like colt .45 malt liquor: works every time.
Posted by alameida | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 2:43 AM
I don't really deeply dislike McEnroe, but it irks me when legitimately irritating athletes get better press than those who don't strut, don't scream at the umpire, and don't throw childish tantrums.
yes indeed, what everyone wants to see is an eternal tape loop of Sampras versus Rafter, chugging along until the end of time while we all have a screaming, weeping orgasm at their sheer professionalism. FFS.
in related news, suck it in, you pencil necked bastard. The injuries are the only interesting thing in American football. What it really needs is a few lions on the pitch to liven things up. Wait until the penny drops and the NFL starts realising that you can hire Maori rugby players for cents in the dollar. Then it will get violent.
Posted by dsquared | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 4:52 AM
There's a couple of dozen Samoans in the NFL. I doubt if they're qualitatively wimpier than Maori All Blacks. Expect a trend. However, pacific islanders outside American Samoa will probably continue to prefer Rugby unless the financial incentives are massive, because it's a faster, better game.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 5:51 AM
And requires less equipment. With a ball and a field, you're playing rugby. You're not really playing american football unless you have the pads and the helmets -- all the hitting is completely different.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:09 AM
It's ironic that it's the mountains of protective gear that actually cause the vast majority of the injuries in the NFL.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 7:09 AM
Well, to the extent that the equipment makes the harder hitting possible. I mean, rugby's rough, but it's not the same sort of impacts.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 7:52 AM
I wish I could have seen a football game in the no substitution era. A really fast moving American football game would be quite entertaining, I think. It was a different game.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:01 AM
58: You shouldn't talk about malt liquor without referencing this.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:06 AM
There's a couple of dozen Samoans in the NFL. I doubt if they're qualitatively wimpier than Maori All Blacks.
Although the All Blacks do consistently kick Manu Samoa's ass, don't they? But I think that's professionalism and coaching, not inherent agressiveness.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:13 AM
Plus, the All-Blacks consistently poach a lot of the best players from the islands.
re: 63
Yes, the harder hitting but also the bulk and rigidity of the shoulder-pads themselves.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:17 AM
It's been thirty-five years since I've played with pads on, but the significance of armor, and the changes its wrought over time with design and materials development, really must be a big part of the difference in the game, as much as the changes in conditioning mentioned above. I wonder if any attempt has been made to play with different pads? It seems an obvious experiment.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:39 AM
In my personal experience, Samoans are actually sweethearts. I once taught a college summer course for football players; it was exactly as awful as you'd imagine, except for the Samoan quarterback.
Although funnily enough, despite being the quarterback, he didn't really seem to feel compelled to do anything to try to talk the other guys into cutting out the asshole act.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:41 AM
69 I'm sure every Polynesian is born with a heart of gold. But they leave it in the locker room when they're playing rugby.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:48 AM
69, 70: Mmmm. IME, the combination of gentle, sweet, and kind and having a stunning capacity for violence is not an implausible one.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:29 AM
Hmmm, out of the many Samoan football players, almost none are quarterbacks. #69 may be overly revealing of your identity.
Posted by Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:39 AM
59 is onto something. There are lots of American football players from American Samoa (or with parents from there), but not many from the independent Polynesian countries. This article suggests that the recruitment of football players from Western Samoa is just beginning, and Western Samoa has way more people than American Samoa.
Posted by Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:45 AM
I considered that was a possiblity, but I'm accustomed to assume that the various clues that get dropped here are less likely to lead a stalker to hunt me down than if I dropped them on my own blog. But thanks.
That's interesting, though. I have no idea if he's gone on to play pro, but he was in fact a really nice kid.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:49 AM
And they're prettier, better brought up, sing better, and on average can kick American Samoans' asses.
But it's not going to happen unless some outside organization sets up and funds an American football program in Western Samoa. There's no tradition of playing Am. football - all the coaching would have to come from somewhere else - and funding for necessary equipment would be a huge problem.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:53 AM
On the other hand, I'm more than 10 years out of touch. There could be American football all over the land of the Forbidden Chicken, and I wouldn't know.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:58 AM
I read an article in the last few years that pro's are wearing much lighter pads because of the premium on speed. I can't find it, and I can't remember if they had evidence of increasing injuries or just worries.
Posted by cw | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 12:45 PM
58: Is the rumor that's going around true? Word has it that ogged takes it in the face. That figures, what with the goggle tan and all.
Posted by peter snees | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 3:33 PM
I read an article a while back about the increase in rugby injuries.* The authors put it down to the increasing size of the backs -- the small, quick, skillful guys -- combined with the increasing speed of the forwards -- the huge, slow, lumbering guys.
Now, you find teams with 200lb backs who can run 100 metres in more than respectable college-level sprint times and 18 stone forwards who aren't hugely slower.
Even leaving aside guys like Jonah Lomu who was 273 lbs and could run 100 metres in 10.8 seconds, the modern rugby player is really quick and really heavy compared to those who went before.
* Although as far as I know serious career-ending rugby injuries are still rarer than in American Football.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 3:38 PM
I keep seeing this thread on the left side-bar, and it reminds me of the cock thread.
Posted by yoyo | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 3:54 PM
59: I think it was the Denver Broncos that tried to poach Jonah Lomu from the All-Blacks about five years ago. Didn't go anywhere but in the future, who knows?
Posted by Anarch | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:03 PM
Hrmpfh. Tongans.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:04 PM
I was on a rugby team where the year before, an opposing player broke his neck during a game. I don't think rugby is completely safe.
Posted by joeo | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:12 PM
Oh, I used to tape the kids together after the games (as the possessor of a US government issued roll of adhesive tape and some disinfectant, I was kind of the school nurse.) But it's still a different kind of hitting from football.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:15 PM
To the best of my knowledge all the talk about Lomu going to American football was a beatup by his manager, trying to get him more money from rugby. (Since he was easily the highest-paid rugby player anyway, this was pushing it a bit.) You'd imagine that any Polynesian who did go into football would have to do so at the college level. It's hard to imagine any rugby player good enough to get a professional contract taking a chance on a new sport, even though the potential money is so much greater.
Posted by Basil Valentine | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:34 PM
horrendous legs at wrong angle plays
Yeah, this too, totally.
Uh, yeah. Two injuries like that in nine months ended MY career ... at the ripe old age of 14.
And then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting left tackle, Travelle Wharton, who blew out his knee Sunday and is done for the year. (For the non-fan, the left tackle protects a right-handed quarterback's blind side and is therefore the most valuable of the five offensive interior linemen.)
concussions
Yes, and then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting middle linebacker, Dan Morgan, who suffered at least his seventh concussion in five years Sunday and is out indefinitely. (For the non-fan, middle linebacker runs most NFL defenses; in a good defense, he'll typically lead the team in tackles over the course of a season.)
And then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting wideout, Steve Smith, the league's best receiver, who isn't playing because of a "tweaked" hamstring and recovery from surgery from an ingrown toenail.
Not that I am bitter. At all.
Posted by Lex | Link to this comment | 09-12-06 12:38 PM