You're only a real prescriptivist if by "not okay" you mean "not intelligible" or "indicative of idiocy" or something like that
If you just mean "aurally displeasing" or "me no like" something like that, then your just garden variety person with preferences (who I happen to agree with).
Jeebus.
"like' or something"
"you're"
"just a garden variety"
Time for bed.
"Totes" is not okay.
M'tch will have to wait a few months to see how many people adopt and use this term "totes" before he can determine whether it's okay.
I think my new position will be that you're not a real prescriptivist unless you're advocating for a return to the full morphological palette of Old English.
Enforcement of the new rule will be strict.
http://community.post-gazette.com/media/p/218749.aspx
if you pooh-pooh totes you must also pooh-pooh absquatulate NEW RULE MUST OBEY RULE
"Totes" is not okay.
Preference noted.
M'tch will have to wait a few months to see how many people adopt and use this term "totes" before he can determine whether it's okay.
Parsimon will have to learn to read before she can understand that I was opining on the term "prescriptivist" and not any other.
7: Historians. Humorless, the lot of ewe.
where's your blog m/tch i want to go there and obey a rule WINK WINK
"All Encompassingly", maybe
Al-enc, dude.
13: My blog, let me show you it.
i'll b3 alseep in not very many minites i betch you
Are you sure it's not short for 'litotes'?
2: You know, if you had left those uncorrected, I would have continued to think they were deliberate errors made to illustrate your opinion of the "decline of the language" tut-tutters. Now I just think your a numskull who can't talk right.
This locution: let me have it explained to me.
18: It's not not unlikely, I'd wager.
Have you lot heard the kids on my lawn using "totes" to mean "totally"?
Nope. I have heard 'passed' for 'died/passed away'. I always wonder what grandma passed. Gas? A stone? The SAT? A cop?
I have also heard 'Would you like to go with?', and have responded: 'with whom?' and also, 'Why am I in this handbasket and where am I going?'
Totes sounds ok.
max
['Fuckin' A.']
This locution: let me have it explained to me.
ok space lady i love you good night
Ah. It makes so much more sense with the picture.
I have heard "Fuckin' A." and have responded "Who's doing what to the where now???"
But I really am going to bed now.
No, honest.
I have heard "Fuckin' A." and have responded "Who's doing what to the where now???"
And I said back: 'Yeah I was.'
max
['Indeed, as an widely esteemed idiot would say.']
I've never known whether "Fuckin' A" indicates a negative emotion or a positive emotion.
31: I'm pretty sure that means you're bi-curious.
I have heard 'passed' for 'died/passed away'. I always wonder what grandma passed. Gas? A stone? The SAT? A cop?
So, just curious, but how does the inclusion of "away" after "passed" clarify all that for you?
What I do hate is when people use a cliche so much that they start referring to it in shorthand form, creating a totally nonsensical pronouncement, instead of venturing into the possibility of saying a new cliche or even something that is not a cliche at all. British sports pundits do this a fuck of a hell of a lot.
"Well, you know, horses for courses."
"Well, you know, swings and roundabouts."
"Well, you know, in for a penny."
32: So, just curious, but how does the inclusion of "away" after "passed" clarify all that for you?
Pissy tonight, are ye? Because the common phrase was 'passed away' and was well-known for long time before I was born, I think, so I was used to it. 'Passed' is short enough that it hardly seems like a pleasant euphemism anymore.
max
['It also could end in something other than 'away' which would have a different meaning. Nothing is gained by shortening the phrase.']
Because the common phrase was 'passed away' and was well-known for long time before I was born, I think, so I was used to it.
Common to you, is my point, as opposed to "the common phrase".
Nothing is gained by shortening the phrase.
Sez you.
There's nothing wrong with you or anyone else preferring "passed away" to "passed". But pretending that you don't understand "passed" and that it actually makes you wonder "passed what???" is just willfully-ignorant peevishness. But yeah, I'm the one being pissy. Sure chief.
if you pooh-pooh totes you must also pooh-pooh absquatulate NEW RULE MUST OBEY RULE
As someone who has said "totes" and "absquatulate", I agree.
It's true though: for a set of individuals who might be expected to die any day now, "passed" is sufficient without any additional background. "Grandma passed," ok, I get it.
But what if, say, six months ago, some yazoo came up and said to you "Billy Mays passed," what would you think? You'd think he just passed by, on a velopad, perhaps.
If Billy Mays passed away that means he didn't just pass on his velopad, or if he did, there's a story there, and perhaps a broken velopad.
A friend of mine has just been told by some American that "accidently" is an legitimate American alternative spelling to "accidentally". True or false? (I'm betting false.)
I hear "totes m'goats" a lot. It's cute!
42: False as a very false thing indeed. If you find yourself talking to someone making such a claim, you should absquatulate immediately.
Bleg:
Attention virologists and infectious disease types.
I saw a segment on the CBC last night about research in Canada (which has not yet been replicated) which suggests that getting the seasonal flu vaccine might make you more vulnerable to H1N1. They are thinking of focusing on getting H1N1 vaccine out and giving the seasonal flu to people over 65 who are more vulnerable to regular old flu and may have some protection against the other.
Can anyone imagine what the theoretical justification for this would be?
The year's at the spring
And day's at the morn;
Morning's at seven;
The hillside's dew-pearled;
The lark's on the wing;
The snail's on the thorn:
God's in His heaven--
All's right with the world!
Not a virologist (is Cpytrci Edn around?) but if I were going to invent a theory, it'd be that actually getting the seasonal flu protects you from H1N1 but the seasonal flu vaccine doesn't . So the seasonal flu vaccine would prevent the possibility of becoming immune to H1N1 by getting the seasonal flu.
I have no real basis for this theory, but it seems at least remotely possible.
it seems at least remotely possible.
An excellent first criterion for theories.
So I was reading this thread and thinking, and you know what? I like new words. Just about all of 'em. Let a zillion slangy neologisms enbloomerize! The fact people get irritated by it is a welcome-to-neutral side effect in my book.
What was scary was that it seemed that you were more likely to get it if you had the seasonal flu vaccine than if you had no exposure at all. So getting a shot makes you more vulnerable.
As a first line of defense, no frenching Apo.
A bike path? Because that doesn't make any sense. Billy Mays has a bike path?
11: "absquatchamacallit" = absasquatch, in the archaic irregular form
43: "totes m'goats" => "totes m'goatse", just sayin
I've only ever heard "horses for courses" just like that. I thought it was just a crazy thing English people said sometimes because they like the sound of it. Is there a proverb containing this phrase that makes sense?
"Horses for courses" is fairly straightforward: it means that some horses are better suited than others to certain (race)courses. ie you have your quarter horses, your steeplechasers, your hunters and so on. Extend to athletes, differences in personal taste or ability, etc.
I've never heard it in a longer form.
I've never heard it in a longer form.
You have, however, typed it in a longer form quite admirably.
Billy Mays has a bike path?
Yes! But wait! There's more!
What the fuck is a velopad?
Not that it's helpful, but this is google's first image hit for velopad. Ouch.
Thank goodness he had an umbrella.
57 - That's because Americans aren't familiar with it in its acronym form, Shabstotcr.
I have said "totes," but only in reference to barges. (Really, no one's made that allusion yet?)
I think my new position will be that you're not a real prescriptivist unless you're advocating for a return to the full morphological palette of Old English.
I am so down with this. (Note: "Down with" is a colloquial phrase which indicates that the speaker is in enthusiastic agreement with a statement or concept.)
I'm not entirely clear what is meant by 'morphological palette of Old English'.
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God, I love my neti pot. I have a miserable cold, but after a half hour in the shower this morning trying repeatedly to pour salt water through my head and eventually succeeding, I at least don't have pressure building up in my sinuses. Just fountains of snot.
Sadly, I can't bring it to work with me (at least, cleaning my sinuses out in the sink in a public bathroom seems uncouth), so I'll be miserable again by the time I get home.
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64: What's the problem? "Morph"=shape. "ological"=relating to the study of. "Palette"=a flat piece of wood you put paint on. Find a flat piece of wood relating to the study of the shape of Old English, put some paint on it, return to it, and bob's your uncle.
64: Me either. I just figure it gives me a free pass to be a prescriptivist until such time as we've returned to whatever it is to which we're returning.
65: You neti pot in the shower? That's...that's...that's a great idea!
As for neti potting at work, I have single-user bathroom nearby. If I were you, I'd be equally sheepish about the salt-water-into-face thing in a full-on multiple-person bathroom. For starters, I'm pretty sure it looks like an insane thing to do, if you're not familiar with it.
45, 47, 50: I'm pretty sure that the seasonal flu vaccine doesn't increase susceptibility to H1N1 flu, since public health agencies (including Boston's) are pushing for people to get both vaccines. By the way, BG, does Brookline have its own health department?
68: Only when I'm really stuffed up -- most days I just do it in the sink. This morning was literally half an hour in the shower of trying one side, than the other, and then finally having the water come through, and man oh man does that make a huge comfort difference.
"Really, Ms. Lizardbreath, if you wish to drown yourself I believe there are easier ways."
Nettipotting in the shower is indeed brilliant. I haven't been able to breathe for a week--I might try that tonight.
You were asking about lack of success before -- what I ended up doing this morning was just repeatedly trying one side, then the other, then blowing my nose, then one side, then the other, more nose-blowing and finally it started going through one way, and after a pint through one way, I got a trickle going the other way. I feel mildly insane doing this, but it makes such a huge comfort difference.
It's a shame they don't have vacuum cleaner attachments designed for this. (Wet vacs only, obv.)
"Well, you know, horses for courses."
"Well, you know, swings and roundabouts."
"Well, you know, in for a penny."
It makes me ashamed that I actually like this. For no reason that I can explain, I like the idea that a word or a phrase gets used to mean something not readily apparent and thus people who have no idea why "swings and roundabouts" means "what you lose in one place you gain in another" (which is right, IIRC my Iain Banks?) will still say it. I like language drift.
I'm particularly fascinated by the way "sketchy" changed from meaning vague/imprecise/not-detailed to meaning shady or dubious. And now appears to have lost its y and turned into "sketch", at least among my acquaintance. As in "that videographer looks rather sketch, I think she's an undercover".
Velopad just popped inside my head. So it doesn't make sense. So you don't make sense.
69: This is new Canadian research, and it may affect their recommendations, but as I said it hasn't been replicated. I'm planning on getting both--once the H1N1 comes out for sure, but I may wait on the seasonal flu.
The Canadians are also making a logistics claim. They're worried that they can't get people in for 2 sshots, so they're prioritizing H1N1 for those under 65 and the seasonal flu shot for those over 65 who may already have some immunity to H1N1.
It appears that Brookline does have its own health department. Arlington does.
I'm always behind the times, Frowner, but I hadn't heard of "sketch" without the 'y'.
||
On health stuff, Anybody gtot suggestions for itchy skin. It's so bad that I itch myself in the night and get red marks. There's a 3mm by 25mm painful scab on my ankle.
I am thinking about ordering a sensityive anti-itch lotion called sarna and some dermazinc soap. Any other suggestions?
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I hadn't heard of "sketch" without the 'y'.
Hm. What about "sketchball", used both as a noun as an adjective?
It's so bad that I itch myself in the night and get red marks.
Let us know if you itch through your skull and find green brain juice in the morning.
"that videographer looks rather sketch, I think she's an undercover".
Did someone actually say this?
78: Aquaphor (or drugstore brand "compare to Aquaphor"). It's just fluffy Vaseline, but it's great stuff. I'm using it to keep my nose and upper lip from turning into a scaly, cracking mass of dried out scabbiness from this cold I have right now.
81: Some hopelessly out-of-date jackass, maybe. I believe the term now would be "cutty." And they are not "undercovers," but "ghosts."
80: I thought of that same article. I'm sorry I did.
74: sounds like the precursor to an absolutely classic John Edwards product liability suit.
"swings and roundabouts" means "what you lose in one place you gain in another" (which is right, IIRC my Iain Banks?)
That is correct. But the full version still doesn't make much sense. "What you lose on the swings, you get back on the roundabouts"? But you can't win or lose money on swings or roundabouts unless it falls out of your pockets. There's no winning involved.
"What you lose at blackjack, you get back at roulette", yes.
But the full version still doesn't make much sense.
I always wondered about that -- if there was some old-fashioned version of 'roundabout' that was a gambling game.
"Accidently" seems to have been a correct derivation once, since "accident" was also an adjective once (Latin present participle?). There seems to have been no time when it was preferred over "accidentally," though, just used alongside. It could have been American for a while; the OED's last citation is by Epes Sargent in 1864.
To the Brits: I've heard "different horses for different courses" more often, which actually makes sense the first time you hear it instead of needing it to be explained.
The short version seems more transparent, even -- swings and roundabouts (especially the kind of roundabout that's a sort of carousel, rather than a sort of traffic junction) end you up back where you began. Setting them against each other seems like it involves a bit of wordplay, at least.
And what's "lost" is ground, not money.
I like the word jackass. Jackass!
Me too! I've picked it up from M/tch and it's such a good epithet: disdainful but not overly harsh and not nearly as vulgar as the other terms that leap to mind at particular moments.
It's aesthetically satisfying to boot. (It satisfies my aesthetics to boot things.)
Is there a long version of "lipstick and handbags"?
FYI: Here's info on the possibility that the seasonal flu vaccine may double the risk of catching swine flu. It would be so much easier if they'd just get the swine flu vaccine out, and then I wouldn't have to worry!
Lipstick in the handbag is worth two in the bush.
What's wrong with absquatulate? Its cromulence is beyond queridom.
35: I very much love British football cliches. My favorite, appropriately enough, is, "It's handbags at 20 paces."
"that videographer looks rather sketch, I think she's an undercover".
Yes, someone actually said that to me. The person in question did look rather sketch and was probably an undercover. Not very undercover, of course, or she would have looked less sketch. Dubious-looking people with video cameras are generally either weirdo bloggers or cops; the cops always have nicer jackets. Weirdo bloggers sometimes have cop shoes, which is why it gets confusing.
Waitaminit. Nobody's complained about "the proof is in the pudding" yet? I absolutely hate that phrase. It always makes me think "I have discovered and elegant proof of this theorem which this pudding is too small to contain."
Also misuse of "the exception proves the rule" makes me want to slap someone with a remote.
-d
because I am goddamn illiterate, that's why.
I shorten that one to "By their puddings shall ye know them."
Canadians are also making a logistics claim. They're worried that they can't get people in for 2 sshots,
I thought now.
Um. Hi, HTML!
I thought we only needed one shot now.
I believe the phrase is "The proof of the pudding", short for "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". "The proof is in the pudding" makes me want to get a long spoon because omigod I worked so hard on that proof and it's going to be totally illegible.
Eating with the devil, are you?
But "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" is just another way to say "the proof of the pudding recipe is in how the pudding turns out", which basically shortens to "the proof is in the pudding". I've never understood why that phrase annoys some people.
Despite the seemingly emerging consensus that "totes" is okay, people aren't really going to do this, are they?
God. We may pooh-pooh the notion that there are rules for proper speech, but goddammit there are rule-like things.
I like to say "poose" for pooh-poohs. I totes poose abbreviations.
the proof is in the pudding is totes the exception that proves the rule.
38: But pretending that you don't understand "passed" and that it actually makes you wonder "passed what???" is just willfully-ignorant peevishness.
I don't understand somebody I didn't know was dying died? (Or what text said, which hit close to the incidents I was referring to.)
max
[''Pretending' was doing all the work there. Entirely too much work.']
I've heard "poose" used in a different context.
Anyway. The rule-following discussion is a red herring; there is what we say when. (I am somewhat amused at the extent to which I'm exercised by this issue. The ordinary language philosopher in me doesn't die. It sort of makes me smile, 'cause.)
Where the fuck is dsquared? DS threatened to call him back, and that would be good. It's too bad he left.
Cuban Spanish arguably has the most nonsensical cliches:
"Que zumba el mango"
"Manda huevos"
"No tienes pelos en la lengua"
"Estas salado"
"A la una mi mula"
"Por si las moscas"
My favorite Samoan proverb is literally "Chicken, owl, coconut, coconut husk," meaning "What goes around comes around."
Where the fuck is dsquared? DS threatened to call him back, and that would be good. It's too bad he left.
I was relieved.
113: I suppose I should put the meanings.
"Zumba . ." is literally "it tosses the mango" and means "it's incredible."
"Manda huevos" is literally "send eggs" and means "I can't believe it."
"No tienes . . ." is literally "you don't have any hairs on your tongue" and means "you're blunt."
"Estas salado" is literally "you're salted" and means "you're jinxed."
"Por si las moscas" is literally "if the flies" and means "just in case."
I guess the last one could be abbreviated from something that makes sense, but I was always hear it as is.
105: Not so. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" means you actually have to perform a concrete test in order to know whether the pudding is any good. "The proof is in the pudding" might mean a host of things, but it does not make any reference to an actual test, which is the entire point of the phrase. I realize I've long ago lost this fight, what with the fact that the majority of media personalities in the US being near illiterates (see the common misuse of "the exception proves the rule" and "begs the question," f'rex).
102: I thought we only needed one shot now
The two shots are one for H1N1 and one for seasonal flu, since both are going to be infecting people this flu season.
115: His beef against you, wherever it was coming from, was only one small part of dsquared, and I valued the other parts quite a bit.
Ever since the thread where Dsquared defended Paris Hilton as being a brilliant comic actress, I took him with a giant trolling grain of salt.
119 - Sure, but it was a conspicuous part of him from my viewpoint. You can see how I might weigh the balance differently.
121: Of course. You told him to get off your back, didn't you, and I thought he did after that.
No matter, water under the bridge. He's left.
I asked him to please not say anything about me, and then he became relentlessly vicious in that and two or three more threads over several months. His last words here were attacking me.
It is a little bit of a matter, since he's been pretty consistent about it and there's mention of inviting him back. I mean, he has as much right to be here as anyone and if he returns I'll suck it up, but I'm not especially thrilled at the prospect of people asking him to come back.
123: Megan, I don't know what to say. He probably wouldn't come back, as he is/was sheerly disgusted with this place, and I doubt anyone seriously intended to ask him back, like personally ask him, in the first place. So the whole discussion is a nonstarter.
As for voicing one's views about whether various people are welcome here or not, we all know that people have varying views, and no one view rules. If dsquared were to decide to come back here on his own, that's his affair.
Yep. If dsquared were to decide to come back here on his own, that's his affair.
And, if people are gonna start talking about how nice it would be if he came back, I'm going to say that my expectation is that it won't be nice for me. And then they'll do what they do; he'll do what he does; I'll do what I do.
125: And then they'll do what they do; he'll do what he does; I'll do what I do.
Have I mentioned, like ever, how highly I think of Megan? No? Consider it mentioned.
max
['On the other hand (although it's not really a contrast or a zero sum), I admit to being usually fond of that asshole Daniel as well.']
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{insert swear words here} Holy crap, automatic bullets in MS Word are a pain the *ass*. How the fuck do you make 'em allow you to put a double-space between the bulleted items. Editing someone else's document created with these things in place and attempting to insert an item in the middle of the list is ridiculous.
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How the fuck do you make 'em allow you to put a double-space between the bulleted items.
Hold the shift key as you hit enter/return.
Oh my god. Stanley, I owe you one. Thank you!
I keep thinking the title of this post should refer to a sequel -- existing only in purgatory, in a moderate, friendly, if a bit boring section of town -- to a Ryan Reynolds film, or maybe a pop song or something.
I find it comforting that Mr. Squared created a space for himself before his departure; others would not have been so kind. Thus I feel free to describe him as a pretentious cunt, which is what he is.
Or pretentious, either, unless you are using pretentious in a different sense from the usual.
So you know what we're left with: curmudgeonly.
re: 135
That, definitely. Intractably wrong, sometimes, too. But not all the time.* And some of the times he was most grumpy, he was basically saying stuff that I also thought was correct, so there's that, too.
* I feel pretty guilty discussing people who aren't part of the conversation.
I feel pretty guilty discussing people who aren't part of the conversation.
I agree. With the rest as well.
You know who I always hated? Ogged. Nobody better invite him back.
I know! All I can say is I'd be less than thrilled if anyone professed affection for him after that time he gave me shit.
That is: talk about pushing the envelope, text.
Yup, there it is, on the floor again. And now my wings just fell off.
If it turns out that angels molt, heaven is going to be ookier than expected.
the title of this post
It was a clever and well-excecuted Mitch Hedberg reference. Come on, people! Work with me here!
I don't know what you're talking about, parsimon. Ogged never gave anyone shit.
i like the word 'frick' - it works better than fuck when you need an interojection taht is said slowly
143: You were probably in the other room, and didn't even notice.
It's a different day and a different age now, however. No shit-giving.
Though afflicted with being the obvious non-obvious choice, George Harrison is the best Beatle.
i also use 'sketch' more than i use 'sketchy'
why did d2 leave?
why did d2 leave?
I was just lurking then, but I believe he was a casualty in one of the read wars.
I don't have a link/reference/cite to his parting comments, but wouldn't mind recalling them. Something to do with utter disgust.
Ogged never gave anyone shit.
Stingy bastard he was, always wanting something in return. Me, I gave shit so freely now I'm plumb depleted.
I tend to think of "totes" as the sort of thing teenage girls say, but I don't think I've ever heard a teenage girl (or anyone else) actually say it.
I think my new position will be that you're not a real prescriptivist unless you're advocating for a return to the full morphological palette of Old English.
Pshaw. I'm holding out for Proto-Indo-European. Maybe Proto-Germanic.
154: All of my bandmates are saying it all the time, in reference to I Love You Man, which I haven't actually seen.
My bandmates are always saying, "hey, get away from our equipment."
I think that must also be from I Love You Man. Musicians!
Nobody here is speaking proper Linear A.
I tried to learn Linear B, but it was all Greek to me.
125: I suppose it goes without saying that I hear you.
161: And dear God, cure me of my compulsiveness!! I just read the entire linked thread. Incredibly interesting in the beginning. And apparently the last time I had a date. Oh, and then all those hurt feelings. But interesting in the beginning.
Di, you're up late! And are now tempting me to read the thread, even though I know I read it when it happened.
Don't read it. Or at least don't read past 400 or so. It *is* late! I just looked at the clock, wow. I should be asleep. This, in part, is why you should not start that linked thread.
I really can't recommend reading it. Or any of its predecessors over the previous few weeks.
I read the thread. This place changed when you all stopped insulting each other all the time, instead of just some of the time. I think we need to revert back or people are going to keep running off. You can all start with me: I've got smelly feet and I'm an ass and I make typos, kick my dog, etc.
I also just watched the first three episodes of Mad Men and damnit but isn't Bob McManus, that crazy poof, ultimately right about everything?
Another thing - does melatonin keep anyone else awake? 5 mg and I'm totally wired.
Balls to all of you figments of the imagination of a lonely man living in a basement.
huh, i clicked the thread, and decdied it couldn't possibly be worth reading; i already know i'll probably agree with d2
what does bob mcmanis have to do with mad men? relationships, or something about hippies/corporations et al? i just finished season1
also apropos of the OP, http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1558
does melatonin keep anyone else awake?
I've taken it on occasion find that if I resist going to sleep with the initial tiredness, I'm pretty awake and loopy feeling. Does it give you crazy dreams? I've heard of that as a common side effect, but it only happened to me once (and that was very, very disquieting).
I probably shouldn't get into this, but I kind of miss the dsquared Dan-Ackroyd-Jane-Curtin style of argumentation, and I tend to agree with him about most things. Also, I'm pretty sure the dsquared/Megan bad feeling arose out of a misunderstanding on Megan's part of his habitual rudeness -- he said a couple of snippy things about her on widely separated occasions without having connected her mentally from one occasion to the next, she took it as evidence of personal enmity, and her asking him to lay off, when he didn't think he'd ever laid on in the first place, led to actual personal dislike. (If anyone's interested, here's that thread.)
re: 171
Yes, reading that again just now, I don't personally really see the problem, but, meh, we've already established at length in previous threads that there are temperamental differences between people (including Unfogged commentators!), and some people are self-confessedly more the broody-grudge-holdy-remember-all-past-personal-slights type than others; just as some are the habitually sweary/rude but with no particular personal emnity intended type.
