Wow. I had to close the tab for my own good.
It's been amusing watching that tower link get sent around to various mailing lists and blogs; I think I've only seen one person say they got through the entire thing. (Well, other than this guy, who used to do this sort of thing for a living.)
Me, I only made it about 10 seconds in.
I made it the whole way through! Vertigo-ish, but through!
That's weird. The video didn't bother me at all. However, since the mini-stroke, the stairs in our building do make me twitchy and I like to keep a free hand on the railing as a reference.
Holy fuck. I made it through the whole thing, and my palms are sweating and my stomach doesn't feel so good. The parts where he has to climb over joints between sections of the tower, especially the last one at the top, were hard to watch.
That said, I've become a total pussy. I went to the local amusement park with my daughters last weekend, and on rides that would have thrilled child-me, I had to close my eyes and remind myself that not all engineers are terrorists, and that catastrophic metal fatigue might not happen right then. My adrenalin-junkie daughter wanted to go on this ride with me, but a too-long line saved me from certain death.
6: For God's sake, JMcQ, don't be such a big girl's blouse.
You fucker. That was just a bridge. I'm talking about, like, DEATH.
And then there's this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEU7lrtehDs&feature=related
Well, now I've watched the antenna vid twice on full screen and the video of the guy tight-rope walking between the twin towers and just for good measure a bunch of other videos shot from tall places and I have to say... uh, nothing really. The vertigo goes away I suppose.
max
['I would definately demand some safety equipment for that free climbing part there.']
I don't find watching other people on heights particularly nerve-wracking, even though I am, personally pretty cowardly about heights in general, and, along with Jesus McQ, amusement park rides in particular.
I don't find it nerve wracking to watch, but it is insane. Absolutely insane. This is allowed by OSHA?@! Especially as it would be trivial to do it safely. The guy already has a harness, so just fix a rope at the bottom and then hook in carabiners on slings every five or ten feet or so. It's only one rope length. Actually, scratch that, it's even easier, there's two of them. That said, watching is one thing, the idea of doing that, even secured, is another.
I didn't find it difficult to watch, particularly, but I did make involuntary whimpering noises when he looked down.
Videos not too bad for me. As a kid I was much worse with heights and I recall this classic skyscaper workers at lunch. photo really haunting me. Imagining how they got in position was the worst of it. In searching for an online image of the picture came across this shot of photographer Charles C. Ebbets on location which is almost more worrisome given that I presume he did not usually do that kind of work.
I find this considerably more terrifying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9JyDQlHo1A
I just want to say that there is something very wrong with anybody who wasn't reduced to a gibbering wreck by watching the video. Unless the proportion of Unfogged readers who are Mohawks is much higher than I'd previously suspected.
I am not at all cool with heights, but, for whatever reason, the video didn't really bother me. Oddly, I was just watching some engineering show on the Science channel that had guys climbing similar (but likely not as tall) towers in . . . French Guiana, I think. They were tying cameras to wrenches and pitching them off the top. They also explained how there is an alarm immediately to hand that one throws if one drops a tool. This gives the folks on the ground enough time to dive under a car or run as close to the tower as possible, because the trip from top to bottom takes a long time.
I like the part at the end when he uses both Hans to fiddle with his carabiner before attaching it. It doesn't look as windy as I would've expected.
This sort of thing doesn't bother me to watch. If you want me to look away cringing, show someone's limbs getting unnaturally twisted. Or an awkward social moment.
Fortunately, Franz was there to steady him.
19: Presumably this alarm doesn't do the trick if you're the thing falling, right?
I actually think this is the sort of thing most people can adapt to, given time and familiarity. And necessity. People didn't build skyscrapers for fun, after all. My own experience with heights is that, like every other thing ever, it's an issue of confidence / zen whathaveyou / blind optimism. Wile E. Coyote looking down, etc.
My own experience with heights is that, like every other thing ever, it's an issue of confidence / zen whathaveyou / blind optimism. Wile E. Coyote looking down, etc.
Occasionally I become conscious when driving of this sort of thing.
"I'm in a metal box, traveling at 80mph... other people in boxes traveling at the same speed are approximately 2 ft away, and some of those people are i) not paying attenion, or ii) actively malevolent bastards...."
20: Yeah, I have more trouble with moments where you can actually see someone's heart break, and you know there's no happy ending. Also those child pageant reality shows. Those are...I can't even.
17 1700ft, 300ft It doesn't really matter in the end. I've been on ladders, unsecured over several hundred foot drops, plus countless narrow paths going on endlessly over sheer drops. Sometimes nervous, a couple times seriously terrified, but I've got a greater fear of heights than most people.
Um, I'm learning to drive, finally (I'm from nyc, some of us never learn), and because it's what's available, I'm learning on a manual. Actually I just went ahead and scheduled the road test, and then took the manual out for the first time yesterday. I need deadlines.
Obviously, chaos, at a particularly bad intersection. I had the somewhat odd reaction of uncontrollable laughter. The kind with tears. This didn't help when the cop car pulled up to find out what was going on.
23.last: My mental game with that is to imagine how hard it would be to convince someone from the pre-automobile era that it could possibly even work.
"And each driver can steer their vehicle in any direction as well as speed up, slow down and stop with little warning? And they don't run into each other all the time? Bullshit!"
"And they don't run into each other all the time? Bullshit!""
I've been commuting about 60 miles each way for the past 6 months. I've seen a _lot_ of crashes. As in, passed the debris from them, or the piled wreckage surrounded by ambulances and police, or, in 2 cases, reached the crash a few seconds before the emergency services have properly arrived.
They don't run into each other all the time, but they do it often enough that I don't really like to consider it in too much detail, tbh. And I see someone do something suicidally crazy at least a couple of times a day.
28: Right. But it's like the dog that plays the piano, it's a wonder that it can play at all, not whether it can do it well.
27. They tried to address the problem, bless 'em. I think that Pennsylvania bill should be resurrected.
29: if the piano playing were somehow capable of causing grisly death on a mass scale, I'd care more about how well.
I passed the results of a high speed chase gone wrong yesterday, before the tornado hit: a cop car over the railing with a minivan somehow, miraculously, on top of it. And then like 7 other cars dinged up in the periphery. Two minutes after that, a crazy person in a Landrover terrorized the highway, apparently pretending he was in a high speed chase.
People are morons. That we let most of them drive is completely insane. I'm super paranoid about running into things, and even I'm a menace on the road.
13: The guy I linked to in 3 commented on the safety aspects:
I suspect they pulled the video from the original site due to the fact that they're not practicing 100% tie off and he's not using an approved fall arrest device. The pelican hook and lanyard he's using to clip off every so often is considered a positioning device, and not designed for fall arrest. Normally a climber has two lanyards about 6' long attached to the back dorsal ring of the harness which are designed to stretch in the case of a fall and absorb some of the shock. As per OSHA, one of these should be attached to an anchor at all times. That said, these guys look like they know what they're doing. I wouldn't climb that way, but I've seen plenty of guys do so.
My own experience with heights is that, like every other thing ever, it's an issue of confidence / zen whathaveyou / blind optimism. Wile E. Coyote looking down, etc.
Whereas for me not only do I have a fear of falling from heights (or someone dropping something), I also have a fear of jumping. More confidence or optimism wouldn't really help with that.
I also have a fear of jumping.
Oh god yes.
30: And yet about a half-century later when they opened the Pennsylvania Turnpike in 1940 there was no speed limit (lasted for a ~year). And for those who've driven it, originally there was actually a small grass median (can't find it online, but somewhere I've seen a postcard showing a car pulled onto the median while people have a picnic lunch).
re: 33 and 34
That's a common thing, I think. Our new flat is on the 6th floor, and pretty high, and I sometime feel slightly odd when out on the balcony for precisely that reason.
Why?! Why have you been on ladders, unsecured over several hundred foot drops... ?! You're all mad! Mad! [runs away screaming, underpants over head]
Seriously, I can believe getting desensitized to the video. Like losing the thrill from a song you've heard too many times. Getting desensitized to actually being that precariously situated, I doubt very strongly. In my own case at least. Like the Trade Center tightrope-walking guy said: death is very close.
Yeah, some of the things terwaz describes above I just couldn't do. It's not that I'd walk the narrow ridge line above the hundreds of metres drop but feel scared; I just wouldn't.
I'm OK with walking up to, say, a cliff edge, and having a little look over, but I couldn't face walking along a really narrow path next to a sheer drop, I don't think. Not unless it was life or death.
Teraz spent his formative years being outdoorsy in Switzerland, right? That's got to soften one up w/r/t the heights thing.
This was one of the most absolutely terrifying things I've ever seen. I didn't even consider climbing it.
When I was in high school, for April Fool's of my senior year I had the idea to turn the school clock (big facade clock like the one in Back To The Future) everything (making the Mickey Mouse pieces, acquiring rappelling gear, breaking into the school) went swimmingly until it came time for me to rappel over the side of the building and actually glue the thing on, and I froze and couldn't do it. While my friends were trying to psych me up for it, a car ran into (and knocked over) a utility pole in front of the school, so we had to lay low for like an hour as cops, ambulances and tow trucks milled about. Then I still couldn't do it, so my otherwise timid friend J___ did it. She was surprisingly (to me) calm about the whole thing.
Why?! Why have you been on ladders, unsecured over several hundred foot drops... ?!
They're pretty common on popular mostly non-technical routes in the Alps and Tatras. E.g. This one which I've been on several times. The actual scary part on that path is a little earlier where you're inching along an uneven couple inch wide ledge while gripping a fixed chain for dear life. Depending on my state of my mind I've ranged from scared to having to have someone calmly talk me across that little stretch. The path, by the way, is called Orla Perc i.e. Eagle's Perch. Appropriate.
42: I claim a "born on the praire" exception to keep me from ever having to do something like that.
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I got an email from the account of a friend of mine last night that made it painfully obvious his password had been stolen and someone was trying to con money out of his address book, saying he was in London without money. Then the same person used Gchat to try to follow it up; I told them I was on to them. This morning I got a very silly email trying to make me believe there was top seekrit spy stuff afoot and I would be assassinated if I told him to change his password.
It was pretty entertaining; the scammer seemed to have the emotional intelligence of a professional con man, but couldn't write in idiomatic American English.
|>
41: The interesting thing is that you kept doing these things. Are the swiss really, really big on peer pressure? Or are you one of those types who won't let the fear beat you, DAMMIT? Or some other possibility? I'm curious.
I don't think I've gotten the shakes while hiking, even on some pretty narrow, high paths, but now and then in the air when things get "texture-y" around my wing I've found myself recalling the last time I attended church.
Mom pressure. She started taking me on things like that at age five. Still does whenever I do a summer visit. Plus, while the fear doesn't actually go away, you do get sort of used to it and better able to handle it. That said, I still occasionally have those moments in hairy places where I find it almost impossible to move out of fear. Their timing seems to be pretty random since most times I'm a bit scared, but functional.
I also have a fear of jumping.
I find this the most disconcerting when it happens in the subway.
Wow. You have no idea how relieved I am that my mother never nagged me to hang over the edge of a 5000 foot drop, just for the hell of it.
51: When your mom nagged you to hang over the eduge of a 5000 foot drop, she was actively trying to kill you?
Btw, actual mountaineering, with ropes and such, is far less scary. I've done passages like the one I mentioned above without fear with no chain but with someone belaying me. And straight up rock climbing, as long as you're not climbing lead, isn't scary at all.
Also scared of jumping.
Also I found the Grand Canyon totally terrifying. Especially theres a little Wile E Coyote style cliff-peninsula to explore on the west side of the canyon by the Skywalk.
There's no rail. No nothing. Just...zoom. I can't stand watching people stand within five feet of the edge.
I can't stand watching people stand within five feet of the edge.
I take it you didn't walk down the path from the north side? You're within five feet of the edge for a couple miles on that one.
Teraz, your mother is starting to sound like a (female) Swiss Sean Connery caricature. If her first language is German, I'm just done. By which I mean: awesome, in a fictional sort of way in which I was never nagged across 5,000 foot drops. What the hell? She sounds like she could be on The Venture Bros.
Following the link at 2:
But I don't want to sex that.
If it's not clear: I fucking love The Venture Bros. But I am hoping she doesn't have, like, a million clone copies of you stored in a pantry somewhere in case she drops you down a cliff.
Does anyone have the origin of the Mutumbo thing for handy linking?
My understanding is that it's something that Dikembe Mutumbo, the basketball player, actually said at some point (or habitually?) on walking into a party. Someone brought it up here and it stuck, but I don't think the first use was entertaining enough to be worth searching too hard for.
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The mustache of understanding strikes again:
In a flat world where everyone has access to everything, values matter more than ever. Right now the Hindus and Confucians have more Protestant ethics than we do, and as long as that is the case we'll be No. 11!
Is this his own self-parody? I don't read him, but my priest linked to him in a weekly newsletter. I think that he must have been bored when he wrote it, because my priest is a pretty positive solution-oriented sort of guy, but when he talks about values he's usually talking about collective sins (would have been healthcare), primarily our inability to take care of God's creation, e.g. the failure to pass (in his words) "a relatively tame climate change bill."
I kind of wanted to say, "I do not think that this means what you think it means, but the priest is a pretty smart guy." I just needed to post this so that I wouldn't say mustache of understanding somewhere else.
I thought it was a post about that photo of someone - Nancy Pelosi? - giving Mutumbo the serious sexy eyes in some formal function. And that Ogged just came up with the line himself. Couldn't find it just now, though.
61: You have a priest who sends out HTML'ed newsletters?
From here it's only sixty feet to the top!
Mine asks us not to abuse new technologies like the Ditto machine.
Ogged definitely didn't invent the story, as you can see by Googling the phrase "Who wants to sex Mutombo?"
It's definitely a well known quote from Mutombo -- might be apocryphal, but didn't start here. I remember the Lynne-Cheney-checking-out-Mutombo's-ass post, but I think that was in response to prior Mutombo-mentions, not where it got started.
I believe 68 is correct. Wasn't the original quote from the infiltration of that private Georgetown frat-scene website?
Oh well. I remember the origins of "Heebie is right!" though. Good times.
70: I can remember when "Heebie is right" ended.
It's not that I'd walk the narrow ridge line above the hundreds of metres drop but feel scared; I just wouldn't.
And not just because of the fear. I don't think I'd do it even if I didn't feel scared - the catastrophic (literally and figuratively) downside risk compared to any remotely likely upside would be enough to stop me. (I'm assuming I'm unsecured here).
Mom pressure.
When I was a boy and we were walking in a non-First-World country, my dad (who isn't a bad person) once pushed me into crossing a ditch maybe twenty feet wide, via a bridge consisting of single plank ten feet up in the air with a single wooden pole at waist height for a handrail. Did not like. But what I find weird is that the upside consists of making a man of you, and the downside consists of killing the kid.
Of course, there's a problem with invoking the precautionary principle too literally - there is a point at which the expected value of the very substantial and likely upside outweighs the very small risk of even a very bad downside. But still, dude...
70: There were origins? I thought that was just always already true.
70: I can remember when "Heebie is right" ended.
I can't remember when "Thanks for making that explicit" first started, though.
You ever heard the story about Mutumbo going to that bar when he was at Georgetown? Well I met someone recently who claims to have been at Georgetown at the time and told me the story like this-- a young Dikembe (I think he was a sophomore at the time, meaning he was probably around 28) was beloved by his fellow classmates at G'Town, known to be a very social and friendly guy. He was also an inexperienced drinker and supposedly got BOMBED whenever he went out and partied, which was very seldom. One night, Deke rolled to some club in Maryland with some friends, absolutely belligerent and dressed like a fool, and upon making his presence felt, hollered out, "WHO WANTS TO SEX MUTUMBO?! WHO WANTS TO SEX MUTUMBO?!" The entire bar went silent for a few brief seconds before erupting into laughter. How can you not LOVE this guy?!
Many versions of this story out there...
60: This might be the origin on Unfogged (April, 2005). In a post listing pro athletes he has run encountered, Ogged listed Mutombo (Ogged was apparently at debate camp at Georgetown one summer). He does not mention sexing, but SomeCallMeTIm (PBUH) chimes in with it as the first comment and Ogged then links to a website named for it. But does not read like it was already an in-joke.
I can't remember when "Thanks for making that explicit" first started, though.
Ooh! I can!
I also have a fear of jumping.
I have a fear of driving my car off of a bridge, especially when I'm on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge which, the Maryland State Highway Administration assures me, is a "triumph of human ingenuity."
61: I think he just cuts and pastes the link without writing out the html, but yes he e-mails out a weekly newsletter.
I think re-reading the thread in 77 conclusively answers that Old Unfogged was not funnier. But there were more cock and gay jokes.
Great guy; I loved this story (and posted it here at the time) on Mutombo voting for the first time in the 2008 election.
Although the Paulina Poriskova anecdote is pretty great.
OK, reading it back, 10 feet isn't 5000. But trust me, the plank was wobbly and a kid under ten could easily break their neck.
From the thread linked at 77:
I was speaking figuratively, with lies.
New mouseover text?
We never did hear about Standpipe's big day, even if it was figuratively, and with lies.
Standpipe's mysteriousness is kind of fantastic. Maybe Standpipe knows Teraz's mom.
86: You can read all about it on Standpipe's blog.
I think re-reading the thread in 77 conclusively answers that Old Unfogged was not funnier. But there were more cock and gay jokes.
My first thought was that these days the thread would be focused on ogged's having gone to Fuddruckers.
I assumed Standpipe was busy celebrating her winning the Delaware primary.
If it's not clear: I fucking love The Venture Bros.
"It is a tissue of lies and pictures which are also lies!"
I, too, am constantly ashamed of my ignorance.
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Waaaay OT...
Are there doctors on here? Fun way to start a completely unrelated question, but whatever. I'm having a debate with someone who seems to think that potassium suppositories would be a nifty invention / way of making a gajillion dollars, and my steadfast belief that, yes, they would, and that they haven't already / are not in wide use is probs pretty good indication that there is something fatally wrong with absorbing potassium through one's rectum. Well, maybe not fatally to the patient, but to the idea, at least.
Sorry for that.
But still: casual googling helps me very little, except that there's one paper on it that doesn't seem to have been published anywhere reputable, and the serious literature only discusses potassium supplementation through diet and / or pills (that mess up your stomach but good). And that there might be some gland in the region that excretes potassium. Or something. I don't know, I'm not a doctor.
Just throwing it out there. Feel free to ignore.
Wrt 93: almost proud of my ability to avoid my own work.
Perhaps one could eliminate the middleman, avoid commercialized products, and simply use bananas?
(Trying to recapture that Unfogged Classic feeling.)
83: There was a sequel to it, a couple of threads later.
I remember being a little nervous at the top of the USMC confidence course, where you had to climb up one side and down the other. Full Metal Jacket has a scene. I was kind of surprised by the number of guys who washed out there. Just couldn't get over the fear.
http://www.youtubevideos1.com/full-metal-jacket-obstacle-course/
I dion't think I ever posted about the toime I splept with Mutombo. The day he was traded to Philadelphia he was in LA withw his current team, Atlanta I think. I happened to be on the afternoon flight to Philly also. We knew something was up when an ESPN crew was waiting at the gate for an interview. Mutombo bumped someone out of first class and got seat 4B but his legs stretched out to the pilot's door. I was near the front of coach and could clearly observe him swallowing a few pills and falling asleep very quickly. He was not chatty.
So after various delays we took off and landed about 3 a.m. Mutombo and I spent several hours sleeping together, more or less. He was on live TV doing a local interview in Philly while I was waking up. Mutombo hten has a physical an another flight to Cleveland where he played in an actual basketball game the same night. Then he found a $5 million contract and I didn't.
casual googling helps me very little
Try formal googling. It's a bit of a hassle to dust off the cummerbund, but it's worth it.
Mutombo bumped someone out of first class
I'd like to think he wagged his finger at them after doing so.
95: oh, it's mostly for people w severe deficienies, or who can't absorb through the intestinal tract, or who can't eat, etc. Presumably also for those w severe banana allergies. (That is *bananas*! Forgive me.) But I like the Unfogged Classic style.
I also now want to own a cummerbund. Just to wear around the house. The way I want a pair of superhero gloves for same.
I almost went to that superhero supply store in brooklyn, but then I discovered it was just a front for some literacy program.
OT:
OK, here is a desparate request for help, a "bleg" or perhaps an "ask the mineshaft, linguist and parents edition," specifically targeted at E. Messily, rfts.
There's an opportunity at my kid's preschool for her to take a weekly Spanish class. She's about to turn 3. The class isn't cheap; if it was, it would be a no-brainer.
Here's the debate: On the one hand, there's magic the power of young neurons to process language, the fact that the only way to gain real fluency in a foreign language is to start young, etc. On the other hand, the class is only once a week, neither me nor her mom have Spanish proficiency (un taco al pastor con salsa rojo is where I max out), so, like, how useful could this really be? Is it $250 useful?
On the third hand, we live in Los Angeles, so there's plenty of ambient Spanish about.
Help!
103: As a Somewhat-Opinionated Person Mildly Allergic to Bananas, I will let you off with a warning just this one time!
I'm watching director Jamie Babbit get interviewed in a documentary and her tshirt says, "Lesbian Breastmilk Chauffer." (Documentary is making me mad!)
"Lesbian Breastmilk Chauffer."
Like, she's a breastmilk heater? Is this t-shirt meant to be understood by more than .0000000000001% of the population?
108: Probably not. So, I'm watching This Film Is Not Yet Rated about the MPAA. John Waters just said, of felching, "I know a lot of perverts and I don't know anyone who's done that."
That ladder-in-the-Alps photo back at #41? Holy shit, no. Isn't there like a credible risk of equipment failure there? I mean, is someone maintaining that sort of thing, or what? Reminds me of this video of a guy on Mount Hua in China.
96: (Trying to recapture that Unfogged Classic feeling.)
We know you'd never misuse a banana.
105: $250 for how long? I'm poorer than you are, and if it's a reasonable chunk of time, I'd spend that much on a random class for a kid for the hell of it (don't even ask what I'm spending on Sally's goddamn swimming this fall. She loves it, so it's okay, but jesus it costs). And even if it's not much in itself, it opens up tracks -- if some other convenient Spanish class/exposure opportunity shows up when she's five, it'll be more useful and pleasant if she'd had this first.
107, 108: Yeah, I had to google that one. First results are misspellings of chauffeur, from the Daily News, nyc's tragically inept liberal tabloid.
105: Get her some spanish speaking friends? 3 is, like, really, really young. I feel you have plenty of time. And if you really want her to be bilingual, it's probably better to adopt a consistent long term strategy? I am making things up as I go, here.
105- I don't actually know any real facts or studies about explicit instruction in second languages at that age, so take this with a grain of salt (and rfts might know more specific things), but my guess is that it would not be worth the money- once a week is far from ideal for language learning at any age, and 3-year-olds have brains that learn languages by immersion, not instruction.
It's possible that the class is really well designed and set up exactly right so that it would work. But I doubt it, particularly with no Spanish at home.
putting your kid in a preschool with other spanish-speaking kids and/or adults, without explicit instruction, would probably have much better and more lasting results.
Side note w/r/t "the only way to gain real fluency in a foreign language is to start young" - this isn't exactly true. The only way to get a native-like accent is to start young, but plenty of people become plenty fluent in languages that they don't start learning until adulthood. They just have foreign accents, almost all of the time, forever.
111: It's hard to explain; bananas just have a peel for some people.
$250/2 months. The amount in itself isn't crippling, but it's on top of monies paid for an otherwise expensive preschool and a ballet and music class, and so if it's pretty much useless I'd be inclined to save the money. But maybe you're right.
116: Do it! Do it! I'm still mad at my parents for not enrolling me in some kind of language class as a tiny one. I used to make friends teach me their Hebrew School lessons, so desperate was I.
111: It's hard to explain; bananas just have a peel for some people.
You fucker.
93: IANAD, but there can be inexplicable gaps in markets despite the magic of entrepreneurship. Until recently, I could never find ibuprofen that didn't taste horrible. But your friend would probably need to shell out for some safety studies at the very least.
116: Huh. $250 for eight (nine?) weeks actually does kind of hit my not-worth-it radar. Mmmmmaybe if other parents who had had kids in this specific class were raving about the wonderfullness of it all. But eight or nine hours? less than that? of language instruction for a three-year-old probably isn't worth that much.
I can say good things about having a Spanish speaking caregiver, but even that didn't turn into a lot of productive Spanish before the Spanish immersion school -- Sally (according to Nancy, the babysitter) understood Spanish pretty well as a preschooler, but didn't say a whole lot.
110: It seems incredibly unfair that there's no ancient Asian dude at the top who will mentor you in a martial art. Why doesn't the world conform to my media-derived expectations! AMERICAN SMASH!
Also, my favorite part is that he had to go back. Like, "Holy shit I'm not doing that, are you insane, no way, oh God, ok, ok, ok, ok, I'm doing it, I'M DOING IT, I AM MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE, I FUCKING DID IT, MOUNTAIN, I AM ONE WITH EVERYTHING! No how do I get home?"
115, 119: Let's stem this right here.
there can be inexplicable gaps in markets despite the magic of entrepreneurship
Usually explained by the lack of profit, but hey, new stuff gets made all the time.
117: Elizmuqin, if she ever shows back up here, might have more research-based advice on this topic that I do. Her now-6-year-old started in a Chinese immersion school when she was 4 (one day Chinese, next day English, and so on). But (a) that's every other day, not once a week, (b) parents speak and read enough Chinese to support it, and (c) it's planned to be ongoing for years, not a 2-month thing. Plus it's a public charter school so it's free.
118: I definitely support the early language learning plan. But once a week for two months for a 3-year-old doesn't seem like the best way to start.
I was fine watching the video, and then I followed several more of the links in this thread, and the cumulative effect is that my heart has gradually slowed and my breathing almost stopped. I do not like being high up.
Halford, you could probably give her a similar amount of exposure by reading library books in Spanish or Spanish & English to her (I'm sure you can fake your way through something for her age level: Tengo frio! Tengo calor!). Our library also has lots of kids videos in Spanish. (If you even have a TV.)
110: What I'm thinking about when I watch that is, "How was like building it?".
Fear renders me ungrammatical.
my heart has gradually slowed
Hey, LB and Moby: here's your answer. What are your phobias?
Anecdata! My mother spoke largely in Spanish to me as a wee lad and exposed me to Muzzy, and I'm no worse for the wear. Except for all the banana puns, maybe.
That ladder-in-the-Alps photo back at #41? Holy shit, no.
Seriously. Or rather, I could probably manage the ladder provided I was resolute in not looking back and down. What I could not do is take the position of the photographer, up at the top of the ladder, teetering on the brink! looking down to take the photos.
I used to be fine with heights, but at some point in my mid-20s, completely inexplicably, I developed vertigo. It occurs only on, say, a cliffside or edge of a tall building's roof (without a railing). I can stand 5 feet back and look across an expanse, no problem, but the vertigo experienced right at the edge isn't even properly described as "fear": it's a physical response, a dizziness and sensation that I am losing my balance and will fall. I don't see how it can be overcome, since it doesn't seem psychological: it's physical.
No problem with bridges or carnival rides or anything. Just the cliffside kind of thing.
once-a-week for a three year old is not worth it. IME if a language is socially necessary, kids pick it up, but not otherwise. I talk to my kid (we live in the US) in my useless native language, which he understands pretty clearly, especially imperative sentences like "brush your damn teeth not later but right now, do I really have to say this three times!?" But he doesn't speak. I read that this is a pretty common pattern for second-generation kids, and would expect the same effect from classes- comprehension, but no speech unless it's useful/necessary.
For spanish, pick nonviolent telenovelas with subtitles. I liked Los Plateados, and am really hoping for O Clon
128 -- "No TV in Daddy's house except for Dodgers and Lakers" is the rule. Which rule is consistently violated by Daddy almost immediately after the kid goes to sleep. The hypocrisy is pretty extreme but I find kids TV (and most kids music) really, really annoying and figure I can keep the charade going for a few more years.
Anyhow, I'm still undecided about the class but like Kraab's idea of adding in some kids books in Spanish, which I could probably handle.
IAalsoNAD but I think high concentrations of potassium are very toxic to surrounding tissue, making suppositories not a good choice.
118: I definitely support the early language learning plan. But once a week for two months for a 3-year-old doesn't seem like the best way to start.
I agree with this assessment, though it wouldn't be entirely worthless. Getting her to play around a little with saying stuff in Spanish now will be handy later, but more immersion would be better.
"No TV in Daddy's house except for Dodgers and Lakers" is the rule.
Could be modified to "no English TV" without making it look like you were surrendering the fort.
OT Query:
My cat just stepped in my hummus. Should I throw it out, carefully eat around the contaminated section, or just not care?
When did it last use the litter box?
140: Hummus is food. If it gets on your cat, you're still fine to eat the cat.
The fear of jumping stuff reminded me of a girl I knew in college that signed up for a skydiving class, but couldn't complete the preliminary training because she wouldn't do the little (from 5 feet up or so) training jump. She claimed that she would have no fear jumping out of a plane, because she didn't care whether she lived or died, but she was terrified of little falls because she might chip her teeth.
Would you believe I married her?
The extra irony is that I chipped my front teeth falling from my bike when I was 11 years old.
And extra Unfogged related content -- I have veneers covering my chipped teeth.
141: A few hours ago, as far as I know. And I think in answering that, I've decided I won't eat it.
(Especially since I just recalled the incident this morning where his hind feet ended up in the toilet. He's a very klutzy baby cat.)
I would leave it out for a week and then eat it.</brockquote>
I'm reminded of that eternal question: if you drop your toothbrush on the bathroom floor -- behind the toilet -- is it okay to go ahead and brush your teeth with it provided you picked it up really fast and rinsed it off in very hot water?
Don't you have a lady cat, too, ()? Because my understanding is that hummus traditionally contains chick pees.
No TV in Daddy's house except for Dodgers and Lakers
Watch the broadcast in Spanish. No problemo!
150: Oh man, that's bad. I do, but she's smarter than the baby and would not jump into the hummus container.
Also, I spent yesterday with my parents and could not stop making puns. I blame you all.
148: I would, but I figure my toothbrush gets as much germs on it from me forgetting to close the toilet lid as it does from a brief sojourn on the floor near the toilet.
143: peep is Paul Harvey! Or a Modern Love column. Or a Story Corps story.
putting your kid in a preschool with other spanish-speaking kids and/or adults, without explicit instruction, would probably have much better and more lasting results.
Hawaiian Punch has been saying "Mah! Mah!" lately along with the sign for "more". A Venezuelan friend said, last weekend, "I think she's saying mas." Jammies and I had a neat lightbulb moment.
I figure my toothbrush gets as much germs on it from me forgetting to close the toilet lid being inside a human mouth as it does from a brief sojourn on the floor near the toilet.
FTFY.
155: Isn't "r" a hard sound for kiddos, anyway?
154: It's ok that you didn't like my story, but you didn't have to be so mean about it.
157: Oh, sure. She doesn't finish any of her words. But the vowel isn't very hard O, and she's perfectly capable of saying NOOOOOOOO NO NO NO NO!
105: Basically? Totally not worth it. 3yos can learn a language by osmosis, but not by a one hour a week class.
At my first week of work - new job - returning to 9-5 hell - so will give you more info/explanation later tonight.
But for now, the short answer, nope, not no way, not no how.
Hm, but is HP saying mas or más? Because one is an conjunction and the other a request for more.
</nosflow>
Or we just are over-eager to read unique special snowflakeness into her actions. TRILINGUAL SIX MONTH OLD!
||It sure is weird to realize that a friend of mine from college, who was friended on FB by someone here on unfogged after he admired her comments, has since apparently been friended by other unfoggedeteers. But I don't think she knows anything about this site at all. |>
158: I meant like a good Modern Love column. They have those, you know. I think.
I love your story, little peep! The Story Corps couples who've been together for 60 years and talk about how they met are my favorites.
he admired her comments
Is that what the kids call them today?
137: Potassium ass! New fear. I might suddenly grow fond of bananas. It's only been a few weeks, and already Unfogged is making me question certain fundamental truths about myself.
143: Are you Michael Cera?
137: Potassium ass! New fear. I might suddenly grow fond of bananas. It's only been a few weeks, and already Unfogged is making me question certain fundamental truths about myself.
143: Are you Michael Cera?
"Hey, big boy, want to come to my Facebook page and see my . . . comments?"
Wait, that wasn't meant to be mean. I *like* Michael Cera, even if he is over exposed. Impeccable comedic timing, even at the age of 14. Crazy.
163 -- The suggestion software is truly extraordinary.
|| It's snowing quite a bit where I am -- the radar suggests that there is no howling blizzard, yet, on the pass over the continental divide I'm driving tonight. Who believes radar anyway?|>
164: They do, at least once. I enjoyed the one where the freelance writer lady learned about animal trainers, and then applied the techniques to her husband. It helped me deal with a hellish roommate.
170: Well, it makes sense. She's friends with me and helpy-chalk from college, and now others! She will friend tout unfogged!
163: I had the same realization a few months back. (unless there are two people in our class who dont' comment here but have friended many people here.) I actually sent her a message on facebook asking how she knew will and whether she was commenting here under another name.
In other news, Emerson is now facebook friends with one of my cow-orkers. They frequently "like" each other's updates. Worlds collide!
I meant like a good Modern Love column.
Yeah, sure. Written by reasonable libertarians, right?
I love your story, little peep!
Little! I'll have you know, I am almost 5'9" tall!
The Story Corps couples who've been together for 60 years and talk about how they met are my favorites
This isn't one of those. Our marriage last about 3 years.
176: That should end "Our marriage lasted about 3 years."
That was over 15 years ago.
177: Aw. That is the triste final sentence of the Modern Love column. Reader, I divorced her.
176: Maybe someone ought to change his pseud to cantankerous peep.
Worlds collide!
An acquaintance from high school tried to pick a pedant fight with Sifu on FB the other day, but he didn't really take the bait. In general, my real-world friends and blog friends seem to steer clear of each other, though one IRL friend recently mentioned something like, "I can always tell when a bunch of your blogging friends* comment on your Facebook status."
*I'm sorry she disdains you all; I actually quite like you.
An acquaintance from high school tried to pick a pedant fight with Sifu on FB the other day, but he didn't really take the bait.
Is that what that was? They were... sort of wrong, sort of not, but it's a weird thing to be pedantic about.
I had to go look up the comments in question (and now I feel like I'm stalking Sifu). Anyone who uses a u* for you cannot claim pedantry.
*Unless it's for the lolz.
She will friend tout unfogged!
Man, I hate friend touts.
I would totes friend tout that person.
Hey look, I finally found Standpipe's blog!
Anyone who uses a u* for you cannot claim pedantry.
What about someone whose neglect of the use/mention distinction renders her comments NON-FUCKING-SENSICAL?
So, anyway, I managed to get the song from the post title stuck in my head. Crap.
You're really into the all-caps today, nosflow.
(And I'd be terrible as a pedant. I'm pretty sure this is clear to all.)
185: that blog's execution is pretty crap.
Minivet: I love/hate that this exists. I also spent way too much time trying to get the solution for that infinite array of 1-ohm resistor thing.
In other news...Christine O'Donnell has a lesbian sister! According to Gawker. I figure they actually have more journalistic credibility than, well, journalists.
http://gawker.com/5640873/meet-tea-party-queen-christine-odonnells-lesbian-sister
Reader, I divorced her.
Or, should I say, she divorced me.
(because that would be more accurate)
189: Certainly inferior to Marmaduke Explained.
Speaking of comics explained, I miss Labs's posts on, uh, whatever comic that was.
Potassium reacts violently with water, producing copious hydrogen. Whether this is a plus or a minus in the suppository department is not clear, but for me at least the enormous amount of heat produced suggests one ought not do it. Fried ass should be a menu item, not a medical condition.
I like to imagine Jim Henson's reaction to the obvious superiority of http://garfieldminusgarfield.net .
Fried ass should be a menu item, not a medical condition.
My hope is that it would be neither.
Wait. should fried ass be a menu item?
190. Right. Your mission, should you wish to accept it, is to hook up with her and blog it.
198: did Jim Henson have strong opinions on Garfield?
Oh, man. Another self-loathing gay? That can't be good for me.
203: Oh, God! Muppets I'm sorry! So sorry.
Davis. Jim Davis, scourge of comedy. Not the muppety genius.
Geez, I am sick and tired of you gays trying to hog the self-loathing label!
Heteros need to take back the self-loathing label! We hate ourselves too sometimes!
205: No, it won't be good for you. We know this is asking a lot. But, our nation is counting on you.
206: Jim Davis is apparently a big fan of Garfield Minus Garfield, so much so that he helped get the book published.
207: Get in line behind the Jews. We stole it from them.
208: I'll do what I can.
Seriously, though, I'm the only one who's wondering about Christine O'Donnell now?
210.last: gotta have fun somehow while the men are all selfishly masturbating.
Unfogged is making me question certain fundamental truths about myself.
Like whether fried ass should be a menu item?
210.last: Wondering what about her?
211: I'm not being selfish. It's a political statement now.
I never considered my dislike of fried ass to be a fundamental truth. It is possibly more likely that I will develop a taste for fried ass in my old age than I will for other peculiarities.
Although now I might add Christine O'Donnell to the hate fuck list.
Mr. Blandings! March on masturbation. Pleeease.
Also, Mr. Blandings, I believe you have just found the silver lining to the Christine O'Donnell shitticane. She has turned masturbation into a political act. That is...God I love that.
Honestly, I want there to be a national masturbate day in her honor. Somebody tweet this or something. I'm not familiar with you kids and your social media.
National Masturbation Day. Sorry.
Now that's what *I* was talking about!
215: I never considered my dislike of fried ass to be a fundamental truth.
More of a fundamental distaste, I'd say.
I see it exists (May 7). Perhaps we could change it to "National Masturbate to a Picture of Christine O'Donnell Day."
Too far?
213: Whether she is in fact a super self-loathing gay.
"When I think of you I loathe myself."
221:
That is really going to be difficult.
Jon Stewart's marching on Washington to restore sanity, apparently. He probably won't mind if you guys pound one out or flick the bean or what have you.
224: Are you live-blogging your attempt?
That is really going to be difficult.
Could you manage "National Masturbate to on a Picture of Christine O'Donnell Day."?
225: Colbert is doing a simultaneous "Keep Fear Alive" counter protest.
224: I mean. Sacrifices must be made.
Although "Attempted Masturbate to a Picture of Christine O'Donnell Day Fails Sadly" is actual a better headline.
I want "anti-masturbation activist" to be the standard epithet to precede Christine O'Donnell's name.
If journalists are feeling more scrupulous, they can say "former anti-masturbation activist turned senatorial candidate Christine O'Donnell."
Also, thanks to 223 I cannot stop singing, "When I think about you I loathe myself."
No more loathing yourself to Kevin McCarthy.
222: Whether she is in fact a super self-loathing gay.
Gay because her sister is gay? I didn't think sexual preference ran in families, particularly. Probably a lot of people have wondered various things about her, though. She's looking more like your straightfoward exercise in teh crazy lately ('scientists have created mice with fully functioning human brains!'). Heh.
225: I saw something about this on Facebook and it pissed me off by implying that calling Bush a war criminal was as unhinged as calling Obama a socialist. I usually like Jon Stewart, but this bullshit call for "moderation" is stupid.
236: Exactly. I saw Stewart's announcement last night, and the rally seems to be based on the premise that both parties are in thrall to their shoutiest extremists. Clearly, Obama and the Congressional leadership need to take things down a notch and speak to their opponents in a more reasonable and conciliatory fashion.
187:
Postal Service or Iron and Wine version? If possible I recommend switching to the latter.
235: It (homosexuality) kinda does, actually. It's also more prevalent among men (women are more likely to declare themselves bisexual and never actually cross over), younger sons, people with certain gaits. They've done a lot of research on it, not all of it crackpot. (Although a lot of it...crackpot.)
But more relevantly: there is really no reason to think about gay sex that much if you're straight. And it's simply not most people's experience of sex with people they're actually attracted to that it's, you know, blah. And finally, the anti-masturbation activism just kills me. Like, I get it, don't masturbate if you think it's wrong. But activism? That doesn't indicate a higher probability of deeply held conflicts of some sort to you?
Yeah, the false equivalence pissed me off. I still hope they outdraw Beck.
236: It's a little unfortunate that the rally is only 3 days before the midterm elections -- a time when (as Benen pointed out) people might be better spending their time knocking on doors to get out the vote.
Also, that Milbank column linked in 225 is just weird -- oh, but it's by someone named Petri. Anyway, dumb column.
So I can't be bothered to track down non crackpot research (the degree of procrastination today is really out of control), but also, anecdotally: totally runs in families.
239:
Wait a minute. I thought straight women love gay man porn. And straight men love lesbian porn.
I do agree that the anti-masturbation stuff reflects deep-rooted weirdness.
241: I dunno, mightn't it work for GOTV? Even if it's comedy, a big media event that's about the elections, that's calculated to amuse people generally on the leftish side of the spectrum, might get them engaged enough to get them to the polls. I don't know that it'll be useful, but it seems possible.
243: This is true. I think for both it operates basically on the "double good" principle? Maybe she only obsesses about dudes getting it on.
Still. I'd lesbian expected value is higher than normal.
244: And something democrats are likely to actually be enthused about. Enthusiasm gap, and all that.
Although now I might add Christine O'Donnell to the hate fuck list.
Tell her that you desperately want to be cured and that she's such an epitome of heterosexuality that anyone she sleeps with becomes straight.
239: But activism? That doesn't indicate a higher probability of deeply held conflicts of some sort to you?
Don't get me wrong, I think the woman is completely screwy. But look, she also preaches in favor of the traditional family, wife subservient to husband, and so on. The anti-masturbation thing just seems of a piece with that rather retro belief system. Sex is for procreative purposes, end of story. I'm a little surprised that we haven't yet heard her carry on about slutty music and fashion, and Hollywood films. It just seems straight out of the playbook, if a little more rabid than usual.
I'm not really inclined to psychoanalyze the woman: she's a trouble in political terms.
Both she and Sarah Palin play on the "I'm a daring chick who is completely safe" thing. It's creepy, and I'd rather give it the finger and defeat it, make a few observations about gender and culture, and get rid of them in the political sphere.
lesbian expected value
The sum of the products of the probability that you're a lesbian multiplied by all the women you've slept with?
Why are the ex-gays always, always flamers? Honestly, how does that work? I'm so glad this guy got out of Crazy Town and the closet.
248: For the most part, yeah. I think the sex / masturbation thing is a fair bit to focus on, since it's the area she's chosen to emphasize. Sex is also the focus - and genesis - of her own personal conversion story. So. Chicken or the egg, I guess.
249: Assuming you can assign numerical value to one's place on the sexual bell curve (which, if the bell curve exists, I guess you have), [probability of place in bell curve][value of place in bell curve]*. Integrated.
Oh, God, I haven't done math in...6 years. I used to be smart!
Sexier if it's women you've slept with though.
244: I dunno, mightn't it work for GOTV? Even if it's comedy, a big media event that's about the elections, that's calculated to amuse people generally on the leftish side of the spectrum, might get them engaged enough to get them to the polls.
Yeah, I know. It's just too bad it couldn't have been a week or two earlier. Otherwise it's a great idea on the face of it (though I'm not thrilled with the false equivalence thing, but that's something Stewart has been doing for quite a while, and he always frustrates me with it).
Honestly, I want there to be a national masturbate day in her honor.
It's not national, but it's a start. You can join in even if you're not in Portland, I suppose.
249: I'm not quite sure I understand what the axes would be on the sexual bell curve. Desirability by number of partners? Perversion index by purity test score? Time-to-orgasm by childhood masturbation rates? We need to define our terms, here. And anyhow who's to say the distribution would be well-formed? Maybe it's a fat-tailed Cauchy distribution and there is no mean lesbian.
254.last: You never met my great-aunt.
253: Oh, my. Non-coital? I expect once one gets going in that environs, it's hard to stop.
254: percentage of the time you're attracted to members of the same sex.
Of course there's a mean lesbian. Haven't you ever seen a women's prison movie?
Does anyone remember that episode of the L word where the rich one is confronted in the prison shower by a naked woman? They cut to the rich one, then back to naked lady, who now has a knife in her hand.
IT'S NOT A POCKET, CHAIKEN.
Where's that old thread about the strangest places or circumstances in which you've had sex? That was in late '07, I think, and someone here was clear winner. Then there was the thread about some quiz where you indicated how many transgressive things you've done, resulting in a final score number. I have no idea when or where that was.
THAT'D BE IN THE BUTT, BOB.
The quiz is called "the purity test", parsimon.
Does anyone remember that episode of the L word
After Season 1, did anyone watch this show except for lesbians who professed to hate it?
257: Percentage of attractions that are same sex. Excluding asexuals.
Fun story: a friend of mine met the leader of the asexuality movement (it's a pride movement? like, stop pressuring me to want sex, I like cuddling), and then hooked up with him. I always considered that a coup.
I'm not sure why 260 is relevant to anything. Something to do with measurements.
263: On mute, I believe. And secret lesbians watched it till the end. I watched it nearly to the end, but I did hate every minute of it, and I had to watch it in the safety of a group who also hated it, and while very, very fucked up. I really, really hate The Chaiken.
260: I forgot what the winner was.
264.2: definitely a coup. On his part. Sounds like a game plan on his part. "I will NOT have sex with you!"
Am I imagining it, or is there something odd about the ratio of rightwing political figures with lesbian family members to rightwing political figures with gay male family members?
I may be overgeneralizing from Mary Cheney here. I wrote the first sentence, tried to think of examples, and got stuck after one. Bay Buchanan's straight, right?
267.2: Back in junior high, I remember watching an episode of The Love Boat in which that was one of the plotlines.
Regarding The L Word, Pandora's been telling me that I'd really, really like the soundtrack to the show, but that's the extent of my familiarity. Combined with the recent OKCupid search which reported that the women I'm most compatible with in town are basically all 26-years-old and bisexual, it's been an odd week.
260: I can't find it, but that second thread was one which will live in infamy.
270: Stanley: maybe you should delete the part about wanting a girl who will let you watch her get it on with another girl?
268: I had the same thought. Speculating: it's not considered quite so damning to be a lesbian as it is to be a gay man? So the latter are more likely to remain closeted?
My personal friends and family who are gay or lesbian are split pretty much 50/50 on the felt need to remain in the closet, though. I think. I'd have to think about this; actually there are more out lesbians than out gay men. There are too many variables to generalize.
271: Sifu says it's the "purity test," so. I kind of feel like that was Unfogged Classic -- or actually midterm -- and it pains me a bit to revisit it. Soup was pretty active around then, and I miss him!
274: It was first introduced under another name, which I thought I remembered but apparently don't.
275: It was first introduced under another name
Meekins?
Surely the lesbian expected value is the number of true positives given a specific reading on the gaydar, divided by the number of both false and true positives.
If anything more is wanted about Christine O'Donnell, there's this from Dave Weigel on her presentation at the Value Voters Summit.
She's a Palin clone.
273: far fewer women identify as lesbian than men identify as gay, and it is both easier for women to remain in the closet and fly under the radar, mostly bc they do less fucking. I'd say there are slightly more incentives for men to stay closeted in general, but in specific cases it's usually either career or family, and the family thing is pretty gender blind.
The quiz is called "the purity test", parsimon.
The one that asks things like "have you ever pleasured the swim team while hopped up on goofballs?" </veronica mars referencing>
I think the person who won the sex-in-strange-places thread was presidential. JFK, IIRC.
279: Mm. I'm doing my best not to get emotional about this (my brother is gay, and closeted among extended family and at work, and I understand why).
far fewer women identify as lesbian than men identify as gay
I'm not sure here about the difference between identifying as gay, and being out. Can't you do the former without the latter?
280.last: That was enough of a reminder for me to find the thread.
Given how disastrously (and predictably) the purity test thread went awry, I have no desire to revisit it.
265: WHEN YOU CANNOT MEASURE, YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS MEAGRE AND UNSATISFACTORY.
283: Holy crap, it went awry? I don't remember that. Well, okay then.
283: I'd forgotten until just now that that started as the purity test thread. Good call on not wanting to revisit it.
285: See above.
The thread linked in 282 is the first one parsimon mentioned. The other, about the test, may have been disappeared.
287: Nope, I just found it and re-read it. It's been redacted, though.
279.last: Oh, my, yes, yes you can. That was actually where I drew the line with the ex -- I was willing to accept the idea that she wasn't out to others, which is what I originally thought was the situation, but not so much the idea that she wasn't completely out to herself, i.e., was not comfortable with the identity of "gay." (Or even, truth be told, "bisexual," since her issue is the idea of being with a woman in real life, for serious, etc.)
I guess it hinges on how you define "identify." If it has to do with how you define yourself, irrespective of others, then nothing about that necessitates that you share that identity with anyone. So you can identify as gay to yourself, and still recognize the necessity of keeping that a secret from many people in your life, i.e., that Saudi diplomat who just got outed and is seeking political asylum. Dude knew he was gay, he just kept it a secret from his peers. As opposed to those crazy guys who compulsively let faggots blow them, but are not gay, what the fuck are you talking about, I'll fucking kill you, etc. They do not identify as gay. They are in the closet to themselves.
I feel like there are a lot of closets, some worse than others. The ones that are not necessary wrt external pressures are a different flavor of tragic than the ones that are, but the difference does not lessen the tragedy of either.
I hope this makes sense.
288: Ah. Redaction, good idea.
288, 290: The entire thread has been redacted? No big deal, I don't remember how it went horribly awry, but there haven't been a lot of redacted threads. Oh well.
291: No, names have been redacted, but the thread and relevant comments are still there. You can go digging for it if you want, but you'll probably regret it.
289, 279: I think I misunderstood you in some way, yet I'm still not sure how.
And while the one thread may have gone horribly awry, I'm quite enjoying the other one.
You can go digging for it if you want, but you'll probably regret it.
I'll pass. Thanks, though; there are a handful of threads I don't want to revisit, so good to know that's probably one of them.
|| Huh. The French for FML is VDM (vie de merde). |>
292: Your search-fu is more powerful than mine. I even tried finding it using "nether orifice."
293: If this is to me, no, you haven't misunderstood me. I get how awful it can be. There are other gay people here on this blog, also.
Being closeted to yourself .. I don't know anybody like that. It upsets me just to think about it. I understand how upset you must be.
Speaking of closets, my house has none. Not one closet. Isn't that weird? For a bungalow built in 1940?
Speaking of closets, my house has none
Maybe your house was custom built for a nudist. Or someone who had many chest of drawers.
299: My house is a lot like yours, based on the snowpocalypse picture you posted in the Flickr group a while back, and yeah, while there are actually two bedroom closets here, they seem pretty clearly slapped on as an afterthought, later. This doesn't count the hall closet, which must have been considered essential for hanging coats and whatnot.
What did people do with their clothes back in the day? Just folded in dressers, I guess.
One thing I've come across a few times is people who are closeted to themselves about the fact that they are (somewhat) bi. As in, people who are out as gay, but not really prepared to admit they are a little bit into women, too.
There is a piece of furniture called a "wardrobe" that often came into play, I believe.
Or garderobe, depending which period of French-imported-into-English one prefers.
The thread has moved on, but I just thought I'd mention that the ladder photo is in the Polish Tatras, not the Alps. Also, it's an absolutely gorgeous trail on a high ridge with panoramic views of the High Tatras and of some beautiful valleys which makes that earlier fifteen or twenty feet of ledge hell worth it. My first time there was Mom pressure, the next three times 'it's only an unpleasant few minutes, you know you'll be happy you went'.
304: Ah yes, the far land of Spare Oom, where eternal summer reigns around the bright city of War Drobe.
It is a nice thread to reread. Craziest place I heard of was a friend dragged her bf into a church late one night and fucked him on the altar.
303: I think it's crazy how much sexuality gets wrapped up in identity. Can't we all just be who we are, and fuck who we feel like fucking at the time, and not worry about it so much? Nutso.
298: I didn't mean to try to position myself as the voice of gay authority. D'oh. I think it's a less common distinction now than it was a few years ago, tho obvs still sometimes happens, and I became really familiar w both varieties growing up. I guess I'm not sure why anything I said would upset you, and that kind of upsets me - usually I'm pretty good about that, and it bothers me to have accidentally screwed some pooch. If I did, I probs didn't mean to, and if I did, I'd probs profit from learning about it.
303: I think it's crazy how much sexuality gets wrapped up in identity. Can't we all just be who we are, and fuck who we feel like fucking at the time, and not worry about it so much? Nutso.
298: I didn't mean to try to position myself as the voice of gay authority. D'oh. I think it's a less common distinction now than it was a few years ago, tho obvs still sometimes happens, and I became really familiar w both varieties growing up. I guess I'm not sure why anything I said would upset you, and that kind of upsets me - usually I'm pretty good about that, and it bothers me to have accidentally screwed some pooch. If I did, I probs didn't mean to, and if I did, I'd probs profit from learning about it.
re: 310
Yeah. In this case, an ex of mine used to share a flat with a gay couple, and she kept it a secret from her then boyfriend [who was quite close friends with her flat mates, and had no issues with homophobia] that one of them -- out to all and sundry -- used to hit on her when drunk, as he'd have been outraged.
307: you know you'll be happy you went
That's why I'm so sad that I developed vertigo. I recognize what I'm missing. The view down below in the ladder photo is gorgeous.
312: He thought it was safe! Poor dude.
Also, has anyone else heard the phrase, "so far in the closet he's in Narnia?" Where is that from?
Ok, seriously, thank GOD she's not as charismatic as Palin.
I don't know where it's from, but I love it.
310 or 311: I guess I'm not sure why anything I said would upset you, and that kind of upsets me - usually I'm pretty good about that, and it bothers me to have accidentally screwed some pooch.
No, nothing you've said upsets me, besides a mild quirk of the eyebrow at your sounding like the voice of gay authority; but I get that you're upset about things, understandably. It's the topic in general that's somewhat emotional for me, because my brother has gone through a lot of disturbance over things. I don't want to carry on about it.
As I said, there are other gay people here on this blog.
THAT PLACE Y'ALL ARE LIVIN' IN STARTED OUT FULL O' CHIFFOROBES, THAT GOT BUSTED UP
110 That narrow wooden path with the chain on the wall is a lot like the ledge I'm speaking of, except that one is an uneven stone ledge with loose gravel, mostly about half the width of the walkway and completely missing for about two feet. That was the part I once completely froze up on; I was just unable to take that step until a friend came back and coaxed me across. My fricking gf, who had never done any mountaineering before, had no problem at all. And she was five foot, making it a longer reach. It's all in the head.
314, 316: Cannot find anything definitive on the origins. Earliest mention I can find is as someone's tagline on Usenet from ~2004.
317: The sounding like the voice of authority: I do that, sometimes. A lot, actually. Not on purpose. There are just things I know, and then there are opinions I have, and normally I think my opinions are right. I know that didn't help at all. I am aware of it. I have had innumerable people who are not lawyers tell me that I should be a lawyer. (I'm not because lawyers I spoke to at the time uniformly hated being lawyers.) I don't really know what else to say, besides the fact that I like engaging in discussion or argument (so long as it's not mean and personal, those suck).
In this specific instance, I'm kind of personally bitter about how few lesbians there are. In many ways I wish I'd been born a gay man. Just statistically, stuff is harder, which bugs me, because I'm not all that good at a lot of it in the first place. And then when I was struggling with the whole "I don't waaaant your laaaafe" aspect of coming out, I read stuff, most of which was pretty crappy, and very little of which was focussed on lesbians, because there's so few of them. I guess what I'm trying to say is: I approached being gay in the same way I approach most things, in a geeking out on it kind of way. I know I'm not the only gay person out there, or on this blog, and I don't mean to imply that I am, or that I somehow speak for anyone else or that my specific experience is necessarily typical. But I definitely speak for myself, which I think can be expected. If you want to debate a specific point, cool. I like to think, and I like to learn.
In this specific instance, I'm kind of personally bitter about how few lesbians there are.
Move to Andersonville?
I've heard about Chicago winters. Although maybe it stimulates the nesting instinct? "Shit, it's October, better get a girlfriend! You single? What about the herp? Great, let's go! Snuggle! SNUGGLE!"
And, since I've been googlimaging out of mountain craving, a few more photos of that path.
and another good reason to brave the fear
Teraz, you are a wild man. Those are fucking amazing. Also, "the not scary parts"...sarcastic? Those rocks still seem rather sharp and skull crushy.
*Awesome.*
322: I lived in Andersonville for years and it had far fewer lesbians than you would imagine. And many of those there were of the married 45yos with kids variety.
If you want to debate a specific point, cool.
Well, except for the part where I think I have to pass out. Still not entirely over that bug. Is this what aging is? It's dumb.
324.last: and another good reason to brave the fear
Oh, lord. Life is beautiful. Thanks, teraz. I'll look through the rest. This kind of thing tends to make me cry.
326: I think that is probably the case with all reputedly lesbian neighborhoods. Regular young lesbians, in my experience, tend to be evenly spread amongst the neighborhoods where you find their non-lesbian counterparts.
Easthampton is less expensive and equally lesbian, if not more so. Also, I think that's where the Harley dealership is.
332: I just remembered that you know the area as well. Back in the day, Easthampton wasn't much. Er. I mean, really, kind of a bummer. The last time I passed through, it was gentrifying, and it was strange to see; a real clash of cultures. So what, Easthampton has gone full-on revival or something?
I think it's crazy how much sexuality gets wrapped up in identity.
There's a Derek Parfit joke to be made of this, but I'm way out of practice.
That part really isn't particularly scary. You've got good footholds and even if you slip there's plenty of stuff to grab onto before you fall. In summer that is, I have vague memories of feeling differently in the winter at age seven. The part that scares me basically involves standing on a six inch ledge most of the way up a big cliff, stepping forward with your inside foot over a two foot gap onto another six inch ledge while letting go of the chain, placing your weight on it, taking another step and grabbing a chain again. It only takes a second, and if you don't think about it's fine, but if you stop and do...
Flippanter, if you ever have reason to be around southern Poland or western Slovakia you should check out the Tatras. They're a very small range, but utterly gorgeous with tons of great via ferrata style equipped trails.
I think it's crazy how much sexuality gets wrapped up in identity. Can't we all just be who we are, and fuck who we feel like fucking at the time, and not worry about it so much? Nutso.
A friend of mine broke off an engagement when she met and fell for her girlfriend. When her mother asked, "So, wait, does this mean you're a lesbian?" my friend just shrugged. If you need to call itsomething
I can heartily recommend going up this. Here's the very top.
I have, and normally I think my opinions are right. I know that didn't help at all. I am aware of it. I have had innumerable people who are not lawyers tell me that I should be a lawyer.
There are other gay people becoming lawyers on this blog, you know.
Of course, we went up the easy way.
330: Not in WeHo. We've got what appears to be a fairly young crowd if riding big Harleys in city traffic while wearing flip-flops and beach attire is a sign of youthful thinking.
Heh. That's August 1980, I think. This is me at the Numa Ridge lookout that fall. One gray hair!
342: I laughed at this comment from the where-did-you-have-sex thread in ways that were not possible when the comment was made.
Those are indeed some sweet tubesocks, CC.
The messed up formatting of comment 484 in that thread is painful.
This is me at the Numa Ridge lookout that fall.
Now that's just eerie. You really don't look thirty years older than in that first pic. Not even close. The mountains look nice, and I'd take the easy way up too. There was only a short period when I would have considered doing the hard way, and that's assuming there's some low rated routes up that face.
The first ascent by a non-Native was by Henry Stimson (yes, that one) party up the east front in 1892, because they thought it undignified to go up the back. No one else made it up that way until Edwards (author of the bible for Glacier climbers), in '52.
I think it's crazy how much sexuality gets wrapped up in identity.
Identity in general is vastly overrated. The problems with sexual, gender, racial, ethnic and religious identity are really just the tip of the iceberg.
Years ago I was hiking in the Canadian Rockies and went to a slide show by "Voytek" Kurtyka, a heavyweight Himalayan climber. Much of the show was about the Tatras and then the Himalayas. Would love to visit the Tatras.
350: That's why I'm striving to become one with the universe. Except for the part of the universe with assholes who disagree with me.
Except for the part of the universe with assholes who disagree with me.
So I guess becoming one with this place is still on then.
this is kind of freaky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR9k76OxzfA
