Technically, playing games on the Nick Jr. website is being on the internet.
I was in a similar place not long ago. I can pilot Wubbzy's sub with great skill.
At the start of every semester, I tell my students that they can call me Rob, rather than Dr. Helpy-Chalk, simultaneously inviting them to feel at ease and reminding them that I do have a Ph.D., goddamnit.
As titles, go, I actually prefer "Professor Helpy-Chalk." It seems more in line with what I do, and won't mislead people into thinking I am an MD of some sort.
I am not the type of person who creates a space where strangers unload their life story
And yet, here you are.
Profs at Mr. Jefferson's University actively eschew the use of the Doctor title. One charitable explanation is that Mr. Jefferson thought that titles created too much separation between faculty and students. One uncharitable explanation is that Mr. Jefferson was jealous that he never got a doctorate.
And yet, here you are.
...where I don't have to feign politeness.
On the internet, no one knows you're making rude faces.
I'm intimidated by you smarties.
7: Same at Mr, uh, Rockefeller's university. But the rationale (as it was explained in the alumni magazine one year) was snootier. Anyone on the faculty has a doctorate, and everyone knows that, so why mess about with honorifics?
Undergraduate Weirdo U. of course does the whole everybody is called Mr or Ms thing. The faculty are just more advanced students. (gag)
I don't think I ever called any professor in anything "Dr. ___." Just "Professor _____." This was at multiple schools, none of them particularly hippy-ish or Jeffersonian.
In some ways I very much like the distance created by having students call me Doctor
It's rather unfortunate, from the perspective of those of us who don't possess a PhD, that the Mr./Mrs./Ms. form of address has mostly fallen into disuse outside of the school environment and the hospitality industry. And that contemporary English lacks a suitable distinction between the formal and informal "you", for that matter. I always appreciated the automatic distance created by those linguistic conventions where they prevail.
A German acquaintance once passed along some parental wisdom to the effect of, "Don't offer the Du [informal mode of address] too freely. It's much more likely that someone will say 'Du Arschloch'* than 'Sie Arschloch' ".
* = "you asshole"
But the rationale (as it was explained in the alumni magazine one year) was snootier.
German academia distinguishes between Promotion, which entitles you to be called Doktor, and Habilitation, which entitles you to be called Professor. So to address as the former a faculty member who is entitled to be called the latter could be construed a mildly insulting.
I've told you that one of Lee's students called her Miss Lady Teacher, right? She mostly gets (and hates) Ms. Lee, but she's in a field that doesn't require a doctorate and thus doesn't have one. My dad is in heebie's field and always insisted he didn't want the Dr. because he'd be no good in a medical emergency, but it's probably also because he's named for his MD father and so the name already felt taken.
Mara started preschool/daycare today, where the teachers are called Ms. FirstName, and apparently is doing well. I'm so proud and excited!! (And also relieved I'm not the only one who's kept off the internet by a toddler.)
"Professor" is the more senior title in English as well, is it not?
18: Not at Heebie U. All non-tenure-track faculty are called Professor.
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Arrgh. I spent all last week in the office (rather than taking any time off) working on a case. Opposing counsel just called me, hours after I put a completed set of documents on my supervisor's desk for review, to say they're withdrawing the case in its entirety.
Should have prioritized in the other order.
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18: Americans will call damn near anyone employed by a university a professor.
16, 18: Yes. Americans get a lot of leeway in this for basically not understanding -- and because our most common error is to ennoble everyone (by defaulting to professor), rather than insulting Professors by calling them "Doctor." (I committed many, many real and imagined slights against academics when I was an asst. editor at a fancy academic journal. That whole "because the stakes are so low" thing is one matter in which Kissinger was entirely correct.)
"Professor" is the more senior title in English as well, is it not?
No way. A professor is someone who teaches classes. A doctor is someone with a doctorate.
...right?
I actually find it vaguely ridiculous to call someone with a Ph.D. "doctor." Doctors are the folks who treat you when you get sick. Professors teach in Universities, and referring to oneself as "Dr. X, Ph.D." marks you as the author of a self-help book.
23: I think Tweety means "England," where, in the manner Knecht describes, Professor is lightyears fancier than Doctor.
22: I think that may be regional. At the large state schools I attended, we called the faculty Dr. XXX unless we knew they were a GTA (you could tell by the bad clothes). I don't think I called anybody Professor XXX except maybe for the next 30 seconds if they were introduced that way.
[Trite-but-True]DOCTOR MEANS TEACHER.[/Trite-but-True]
20: That must be incredibly frustrating. I'm so sorry.
I've been a bit insulted that Halford doesn't call me Dr. Geebie.
24: ffft. I'm a doctor dammit, not some physician.
I don't know if my thinking has any basis in any coherent system of usage, but I don't think of either Professor or Doctor as the more senior title. Doctor means someone with an MD or PhD (or a JD if I'm being a jerk about it). Professor is a courtesy title for someone who teaches in a college -- some colleges restrict it to a subset of such people, but generally if someone's teaching a college class, you can call them "Professor". Some Doctors aren't Professors because they don't teach, some Professors (although fewer) aren't Doctors because they don't have doctorates. You never address someone as Doctor unless they're an MD, you only address professors as Professor in an academic context.
26: I was talking about non-American universities, like in Germany and England, where "Professor" is truly a higher and separate position from "Doctor."
28: Oh, it's litigation, that's how it goes. The timing on this one was just perfect -- the withdrawal hit so as not to save me any work at all.
You never address someone as Doctor unless they're an MD
Outside of the academy, sure. But within?
When I got my PhD, I asked my dad (who is an MD), "If I'd asked you six years ago if you'd get a tattoo when I got my PhD, would you have agreed to it?"
Dad said "No."
I said (whined) "Why not? It's not like I can make you go back and agree to it now. It costs you nothing to say you would have!"
Dad said "But I wouldn't have!"
I said, "Jerk."
He said, "Now, maybe if you'd gotten your MD..."
I am only half joking these days when I say the only thing I want from my PhD program is to be called Dr. Being in academia is so uncertain and frustrating that I could end up being a waitress (again) - but no one can take my title away from me.
...that's Dr. Sweetie actually.
35: When CA's sister was due to get her JD, CA's mum said something like, "Now we'll have 5 doctoral degrees in the family!" and I was touched, because I thought she was including me (ahem, which she never ever ever does). Then I remembered that CA's dad was an MD/PhD. OH WELL.
That whole "because the stakes are so low" thing is one matter in which Kissinger was entirely correct.
Interestingly, Kissinger was a notorious stickler about being addressed as "Doctor Kissinger" rather than "Mister Kissinger".
The New York Times stylebook specifies that non-medical doctors with PhD's should not be called "Dr.", but "Mr./Ms." on second reference. There are a couple of routine exceptions to that rule, one of which is Dr. Kissinger. The two others I am aware of are Dr. King and Dr. Rice (as in Condoleeza).
Is there anything more ludicrous than the fact that a law degree -- aka a three year, extraordinarily easy degree to obtain for people who can't think of anything else to do with themselves -- is sort-of officially a doctorate in the United States? Let me impress you with my DOCTORATE level knowledge of law.
Probably, there are more ludicrous things, but that's up there.
At DFH College, I don't recall anyone ever using "Dr." (At least in the social sciences and the humanities; don't know about hard sciences.) Mostly, it was "Professor" to start off with and first names by the second or third class. 'Cause we're dirty fucking hippies.
39: A PhD in the UK is supposed to take 3 years, though in recent years the actual time has crept up closer to 4.
During these conversations, I get a weird urge to get people to call me "Captain." Not like "Oh captain my captain" in that Robin Williams movie. Just "Captain."
On a related note, the news kept throwing me off this morning by reporting that the Captain of the Enterprise was in trouble for a sexually explicit video.
I'm probably exaggerating somewhat. I expect that in my first year I may have hung onto honorifics for a little longer, but mostly we weren't down with that whole authority trip, man.
you only address professors as Professor in an academic context.
Or in the context of shipwrecked castaways.
On web forms that give you a lot of options for titles, I usually choose "Admiral."
"Professor" seems like a higher rank then "Doctor" to me, since I'm the latter and not the former. I don't think I've ever been called "Doctor" except in a joking way, though, or in formal letters from people who don't know me (including emails from crackpots).
39. More ludicrous is that the degree beyond the JD is a masters.
Priests have the weirdest degrees/status markers. Episcopal priests often have letters following their names that are totally mysterious.
39: My dad kept his LLB (or whatever it was called) even when his school offered to switch it for free.
I usually choose "Admiral."
That's admiralble.
49: Really? Yale gives a "Masters of Law" for doing the first year of their law school.
Using first names with pretty much everybody has two major benefits: it saves the effort of keeping honorifics straight, and seeing how people react provides useful information about who to watch out for. (I still generally use "Dr." for MDs in a physician-patient context and "Mr." occasionally for people who insist on using it toward me.)
referring to oneself as "Dr. X, Ph.D." marks you as the author of a self-help book a supremely self-important asshole.
LLB
Like LizardBreath? I would want to keep that too.
I get a lot of mileage out of proclaiming things like "Speaking as a doctor, my diagnosis is: it's hot out!" In that booming Simpson's doctor voice.
LL.M., right? Wiki seems to agree.
referring to oneself as "Dr. X, Ph.D."
I think I've mentioned before that my checks come addressed to Dr. Geebie, PhD PhD. Anything less than three honorifics would be disrespectful.
DEAR DR. ESSEAR,
WHAT DO YOU MEAN GLOBAL WARMING THAT'S CRAZY!! ARE BLIZARDS ARE "WARM"?! NO THEY ARE VERY VERY COLD AND PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE THEIR SO COLD SO WHY DONT YOU DO SOEMTHING GOOD WITH YOUR TIME LIKE INVENTING A BETTER SNOW SHOVLE. HA HA!
It does kind of irk me to go to medical doctors who default to calling me by my first name but expect to be referred to as Dr. Whatever.
61: I've been to two where they used my honorofic. They were both foreign-trained: one Indian, one Korean.
58: You know, I am basing this on a friend's CV and he is . . . unreliable. (I saw one version of said document where it was, in the words of Marianne Dashwood, never said but everywhere implied that he had a JD from Yale.)
Medical doctors get to keep the honorific because they have the power to fuck with you. Just like calling cops "Officer" and referring to Judges as "Your Honor."
48: I take it you're not teaching undergrads? They have no idea what a postdoc is, and all call me professor. (Though I suppose one of my titles is technically "adjunct assistant professor" so they're technically right.)
54: I wouldn't mind firstnaming everyone if it wasn't for the fraught nickname issue. I'm a "Liz" in real life, and anyone calling me "Elizabeth" is either my mother or doesn't know me, and I'll tend to bristle. If I expect someone to first-name me, I'll actively tip them off that "Liz" is right.
But if I'm looking at a Samuel, Joseph, or Michael, I don't know what to call them without a cue -- odds heavily favor Sam, Joe, or Mike, but it's not heavy enough to make guessing safe. I just met a Jeremiah who's not Jerry (not a problem, because I met him socially rather than professionally, so getting straightened out was easier), so who knows?
63: Maybe Yale does something funny, but I'd guess that your friend is being shifty there. An LLM is usually a one year degree after you've got your JD -- I never heard of leaving law school before the JD counting as anything.
65: No, postdocs in physics don't teach, as a rule. Which makes it the best job ever, aside from the temporariness.
I'm pretty sure that Yale has something called a "Master of Legal Studies" which is something that you can get if you want to take some law school classes without getting a J.D., so maybe that's what your friend was doing. But while I don't really know I don't think you get anything for just completing one year of law school and dropping out.
68: Aside from pharoah's grave goods, all jobs are temporary.
67: Then maybe it is a "Masters of Law." The program certainly exists. One is admitted to YLS to take the first year of classes and the bargain made is that you can never, ever expect to attend Yale as a regular law student -- no switching things up at a later date. It's primarily for people who have or are getting PhD's in history or polisci for whom some actual legal instruction would be useful.
69: Right. That's what I was talking about.
"King Archon" sounds like a fun title to have people address you with.
One is admitted to YLS to take the first year of classes and the bargain made is that you can never, ever expect to attend Yale as a regular law student -- no switching things up at a later date.
Ah, I was thinking it was something like the masters you get when you leave some PhD programs -- literally for people admitted to the law school who dropped out. That sounded strange.
I don't think you get anything for just completing one year of law school and dropping out.
Another year older and deeper in debt. Plus all the coal dust you can carry.
74: Right. I wasn't being at all clear.
The only times I'm called doctor is when someone is trying to sell me some supply or piece of equipment. I was registering for a conference today and it made me choose a prefix (Mr, Mrs, Ms, or Dr)- so if I don't usually use Dr, do I use Mr implying that I don't have a PhD? I went with Dr. It also asked for degrees and current title/affiliation, so now my name badge is probably going to be far too grandiose.
Surely just based on rarity Prof is higher than Dr- even if you address anyone in a university teaching position as professor, there are way more doctors out there.
Over a number of years the root password to the Athena terminals at MIT went from Mrroot to Drroot to Profroot, suggesting the proper sequence. No idea what it's up to now, maybe Emeritusroot.
Surely just based on rarity Prof is higher than Dr
Sure. Clownmanship is rarer still.
78: Society has stupid priorities.
It takes a long time to be able to say, "Fuck you, clown." "Fuck you, professor," comes much sooner.
I prefer to last-name everybody (without honorifics), which strikes me as informal without being overly familiar, and has the support of centuries of literary and scholarly convention.
"Nagata did not live long enough to bring his ambitious political efforts to fruition."
Just like calling cops "Officer"
I AM NOT A "DUDE", HALFORD. ARE YOU FROM THE COUNTY OR SOMETHING?
I am also attracted to the Japanese custom of calling family members and friends by titles of relationships:Husband, Father, Uncle, Sister, Eldest Daughter.
Over a number of years the root password to the Athena terminals at MIT went from Mrroot to Drroot to Profroot
Hee! Ah yes. Many of my fine xtrek starships were destroyed while logged in with pw mrroot.
I work with an Icelander with a non-family last name- Firstname So-and-so's-daughter.
Jammies' family refers to the only daughter as "Sissy" all the time, which sounded super odd and quaint to my ear when I first heard it.
83: For reference, only people senior to the speaker are so addressed in Japanese. Children, younger siblings, etc. are called by name (or nickname or whatever).
86: Ha -- my mom calls me "Sissy" all the time for this reason. My dad/brothers never did/don't.
87:Really? I could have sworn I heard "1st son" or something like that. And women friends and schoolmates seem to call each other "sister" while the guys call each other "badger" and "warthog"
As I wrote 83 I remembered that "bro" is not unknown in America.
83, 87: I found that the analogous thing made stories by Eileen Chang hard to read at first -- it would take a while to sort out the characters being referred to as Third Brother, Second Sister, etc, especially when some of them were also referred to by name at other times.
I haven't had these difficulties when reading Japanese books, but maybe that means the translator avoided being too literal.
But, yeah, "Ko-chan" kind of thing is most common, at least for girls and young boys.
What, 長男 chounan as a term of address? Maybe some types of people, maybe in previous eras (movies?), but not standard. See this paper, page 4. I see it as part and parcel with the general assholishness of hierarchy; even in American companies superiors are the ones who most often get to be brash and call their inferiors by nicknames.
The legal Master's degree is indeed a bit odd, because it's mostly a 2nd degree in Law conferred upon non-USian students who already have Bachelor's in law, and either (a) want to practice in the US, and or in some area a US law school is supposed to have a particular competence in, and thus want the year of training/credential (in this case I believe, as someone said above, that it's an LLM); (b) are taking it in Europe, and plan to go on to a legal doctorate. But getting it as a stand-alone degree isn't limited to Yale; I know someone who did the same at Chicago, though it may have been a bit of a special case there. I suspect that if you were an academic sort and highly qualified, you could convince any of the schools that offer the (a) type LLM to let you take the same program as the foreign students even if you hadn't had any prior legal training.
Also, as to the Professor-v.-Doctor thing: since any mention of the academic job market makes clear just how hard getting a TT job is, I feel like it's always safe to go with "Professor" as a possibly-inaccurate-but-erring-upwards title.
And while "Admiral" is neat, I've always preferred "Lord Protector."
Wasn't the creation of the JD previously discussed here as an early-to-mid-20C legitimacy grab by the legal profession, and maybe also by law schools vis-a-vis legal practice?
95: For non-foreigners, I know it mostly as for tax people -- you go get a tax LLM, and then you're a tax attorney.
That's my understanding. Law schools (at least in the US) are basically a cartel with extraordinarily little social value.
100 to 97. I guess the tax lawyers probably really do find a few extra classes useful. Anyhow, the U.S. J.D. could very easily be made an undergrad degree or, at a minimum, a one-year masters program. I'm also in favor of restoring the apprenticeship system.
I'm also in favor of restoring the apprenticeship system.
Yeah, one year of school, or an undergrad degree, three years as a 'law clerk' working for a real lawyer, and then take the bar sounds like a very reasonable route to being a lawyer. Three years of law school is silly.
I like "Advokat". (I've been reading The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo series.)
I walk by a lot of storefront 'Abogado' signs, and like thinking of myself as an alligator pear.
Judge Posner's on record with making the 3rd year of law school optional, as a start. Some states are less restrictive than others; IIRC, California still technically allows a sort of self-study route to eventually taking the bar, although I don't think anyone really uses it, and there are non-ABA accredited schools there, or at least not fully accredited. I don't care enough to look it up.
The ABA's accreditation rules are definitely all about cartel preservation. OTOH, it's much less of a serious social problem than the undersupply of medical doctors.
The main social advantage to making law school in the US more of a genuine apprenticeship/vocational degree, to my mind, is that it would make it less attractive as a finishing school for the ruling class. Yes, there's a surface appeal to having lawmakers be trained in the law, but no thanks.
94:Yes, old movies 1939-1960
2) with subtitles! sometimes amateur subs.
3) And it might have been "Elder Brother" but goodness knows what the translators were doing
4) as I said I vastly prefer last names only, in all circumstances. But that could be unworkable in a family
5) Oh, you don't like hierarchies? You call your parents by their first names? All power relationships and tragedies start in the family, as Yasujiro Ozu stated at the start of a movie in 1935.
But calling your family and friends by first names but acquaintances and strangers by last names just establishes more social heirarchies
Yeah, there's still a self-study route you can take in California, though I've never heard of anyone actually doing it. There were some folks who had gone to non-accredited law schools in my bar review class. But they mostly seemed to have jobs already (cops, working at big corporations) and viewed the bar membership as an advantage in their current role. The stigma attached to non-accredited law schools in the job market (and, I suppose, self-study) is strong enough that it means that basically anyone who wants to be a lawyer and can get into an ABA-accredited school does so.
I'm in favor of addressing everyone by weird names they make up for themselves on the internet.
I dunno, "rob helpy-chalk" sounds so formal. I've always thought of you as "The Notorious RHC."
California still technically allows a sort of self-study route to eventually taking the bar, although I don't think anyone really uses it, and there are non-ABA accredited schools there, or at least not fully accredited.
I know a couple of lawyers who went the apprenticeship route, but it seems to be vanishingly rare these days. I know more people who have gone to a non-accredited school, but the school I'm thinking of has low baby-bar pass rates (the test you need to pass to progress from your 1L to 2L year when you go to a non-accredited school), and even lower regular bar passage rates (like, one year only one student passed). OTOH, it's free, and most of the students are like full-time employed union stewards and the like, who want legal training but don't actually plan to become full-time lawyers.
But thanks for the link, mini-vet, saved to disk. Haven't gotten around to Japanese culture yet. Still studying Meiji-Showa party formation.
I don't expect to like Japan, and that is not my purpose.
105: California allows people from unaccredited law schools to take the bar as long as they pass the First-Year Law Students' Exam. The pass rates are bad. Even worse, though, are the pass rates for people passing the CA bar who went to an unaccredited law school at 22.8%.
Did anybody have the tact to point out that it surely was the internet that missed you, dear Dr.?
Speaking of failing the CA bar, didn't the Dean of Stanford Law fail it. She probably went to an unaccredited law school.
I went to law school in NH. In my second year of law school, NH decided to start a program where you don't have to take the NH bar if you join the Daniel Webster Honor Scholars Program. So few people take the bar in NH, though, that it hardly seems worth it.
When I tore my Achilles tendon, two of my physical therapists were DPTs (Doctors of Physical Therapy), a three-year graduate program. I was more impressed that one had played varsity tennis at Penn State and the other had run track at Duke.
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NMM to Keyser Söze's "lawyer".
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Did anybody have the tact to point out that it surely was the internet that missed you, dear Dr.?
No one! I had to muster the narcissism to assume that had been the case.
I mostly get called Dr. Pongo in rejection letters these days.
(But, an interview this week and an on campus in two weeks. Tendrils of hope!)
NMM to Keyser Söze's "lawyer".NMM to Keyser Söze's "lawyer".
Sad. I really loved that movie back in the day. I used to watch the trailer again and again, even.
Well, the internet missed you dearly! It wasn't the same without you.
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7,026 minutes left at this stupid job.
Grrrrrrr.
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118:Yeah, Postlewaite and Francis
Among Giants is a nice little obscurity, with R Griffiths, about people who paint high transmission towers.
Francis can also be remembered for the mannequins. Like Nielsen, all over tv as a guest star in my youth.
More on-topic: Is there an standard honorific for physician assistants? I mean, they're not doctors. They're not nurses. It sounds weird to say "Physician Assistant McGillicuddy" when you are referring to them. Does anyone say "PA"? That sounds too much like you're passively-aggressively commenting on their demeanor.
7,026 minutes left at this stupid job.
Maybe the comma means a decimal point!
Why did I like Among Giants?
It's about the job, high pay contract labor, working alone in the country, being careful at heights, being efficient with paint, and working quickly.
It's about a woman, Rachel Griffiths, trying to beak into a male-dominated position. And it's about Pete Postlewaite as romantic lead.
Felix Salmon vs Brad Delong on the wonderfulness of Robert Rubin
Salmon:
And one thing that most politicians, academics, and bankers have in common is that they are fundamentally parasitical creatures.
He forgot lawyers. I understand if y'all can't understand the appeal of a movie about blue-collar workers.
124- I was in that position recently, Natilo; it was no fun. But once I made it to the last 2,000 or so, it was a breeze.
61: It does kind of irk me to go to medical doctors who default to calling me by my first name but expect to be referred to as Dr. Whatever.
As a teenager I participated in a week-long medical outreach project through my church. Other than the pastor, there were three medical doctors and a young couple in which the husband was a Phd (Chemistry, I think but in industry not a professor). After the nth time I called him "mister x", his wife half-jokingly said, "Go ahead and give his ego a boost, call him 'doctor'."
126: So you use "PA" to abbreviate "passive-aggressive"? I read it as "personal assistant" or "public address" myself, but I think it wouldn't take much collective effort to make it generally recognized for "physician's assistant." In practice I imagine it'll stay first-name or Mr./Ms. since it's not a credential with especially high social value.
One of the great disappointments of my MS degree is that people don't address me as "Master".
He forgot lawyers. I understand if y'all can't understand the appeal of a movie about blue-collar workers.
Fuck off.
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Remember back a few months ago, when I was all upset because my advisor pulled me off the market, but I decided to apply for my dream position anyway? (No? Just pretend you do).
Well, I'm de-lurking to say that I GOT THE JOB! I'M GONNA BE A TENURE-TRACK PROFESSOR THIS FALL!
2011 will ROCK!
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But you'll have to wait until July to call me Dr. Robot. Carry on.
Woohoo!!1!one!eleventy1! Tenure-track!
Woo JennyRobot!! That's fantastic.
Are you going to be near any of the regular meet up locales?
Horay for Ms. Jennifer Robot!
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Since everyone here has so many advance degrees, can someone explain to me what women laugh at, when they laugh alone, with salad. Does the salad tell private jokes?
(Link via B.PhD.)
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I've found myself calling just about everyone babe recently, even people that should emphatically not be addressed as such.
(I kinda sorta blame parsimon for this. She pulls it off with aplomb, and perhaps my subconscious picked up on it?)
Everybody should try for new titties this year.
Hooray for Professor Mistress Robot! Dare to dream!
It's a Christmas New Year's Miracle! Congrats! That's awesome.
The only other mention of Pete Postlewaites work concerned a movie (Usual Suspects) in which he played a lawyer.
Coincidence?
(I'm just funnin' ya. I know you are all salt-of-the-earth radical egalitarians without pretensions or social class distinctions. Or "boundaries.")
signed, Pauly's evil twin
I add my voice to the chorus of "wooot" for Jenny Robot.
I know you are all salt-of-the-earth radical egalitarians without pretensions or social class distinctions.
Don't lump me in with these sweaty proles.
148.1: The only other mention of Pete Postlewaites work concerned a movie (Usual Suspects) in which he played a lawyer.
A "fake" lawyer w/o credentials. Gosh, how coincidental was that?
Just funnin' you back.
"Lumpenproletariat before they lump you", my old law school prof used to say.
How delightfully droll! Oh, my ascot.
150: I am sweaty, but I'm Irish and Italian.
If it makes Bob feel any better, after the place I was having lunch was taken over yesterday by Wisconsin-ites in town for the Rose Bowl looking to watch the Packers game, I've decided that I really do dislike yokels from the heartland. Screw those guys.
Thank you, thank you ::bows::
I don't think I'll be near any meet-up locations, unless there's one planned in the vicinity of the two cities that host a mediocre purple and gold football team.
That's really terrific, JennyRobot! Woo! Good news is so delightful to hear right now.
Congrats, Jenny Robot! Excellent news. Do Unfogged comments count toward publishing?
I am also heartened that someone in this country, this year, got a tenure-track job. Things are looking up.
156.2: Actually, LSU was pretty good this year plus Baton and Rouge are one city.
Is the football team in Natiloland mediocre? I would have known these things when I was 2.
161: Thank God, since privileged, working-class-styled white males whining about it on the internet didn't seem to be working.
162: Well they did recently play host to the first post-phone-based sexual harassment Favre retirement. So they've got that going for them.
Tenure-track hook 'em woo!
Man, I would dearly love to see your advisor's response to the news.
To me, Pete Postlethwaite is "that bloke on the telly who's playing a cabbie, steelworker, member of parliament, priest, something" as before he got into the movies you'd see him on any given evening in two bogstandard TV dramas. I guess the RSC in the 80s didn't pay well.
The story about the Big E smut is here: Galrahn, predictably, is Concerned. It wasn't the captain but the XO. In Britain that would be Number One (the XO) of Father (the Fleet Flagship or any carrier). Ouch.
Congratulations, JR.
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Halford and/or k-sky: unless I have some last-minute inspiration toward coming up with a plausible ruse, I won't be attending your do, but if you send me your address I could perhaps arrange to be there in spirit, so to speak.
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OT: If one of you knew how to kill 4,000 birds at once with no obvious cause, you'd tell a guy, right? Because some things you can't just google, regardless of how useful.
Depends. If they were starlings, I'd help you myself.
Yeah, I've been hearing about that bird-killing thing on German radio all day. Wacky.
I'm waiting for wikihow to cover it.
looking to watch the Packers game
First of all, it was a *Bears* game, not a Packers game. Second of all, we are *not* talking about it. You got that?
170: Why don't you like starlings? I know they're non-native, but they're so pretty and I enjoy their chatter.
No one remembers reading Danny, Champion of the World? Watch out for when they wake up.
166: He was thrilled, honestly--and a number of the people I've told started crying (tears of joy, they say).
It hasn't really hit me yet, but I'm thinking that will come when I see the offer letter. At least now I finally know that I can sing "Closer to Fine" with the line "I spent seven years prostrate to the higher mind/Got my papers and I was free." I was becoming afraid it was going to be a much bigger number.
Any advice on the frantically finishing dissertation/negotiating offer/preparing to move partner and parent stage of one's academic career?
Where are you going to be? Someplace familiar, or a novel locale?
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Somehow it doesn't feel like I got the baby any cleaner, when he drops a big old deuce in his bath.
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141: Since everyone here has so many advance degrees, can someone explain to me what women laugh at, when they laugh alone, with salad. Does the salad tell private jokes?
I have no idea what B. might have said about it, but yes, yes, the salad tells private jokes, generally about how awesome it is. This is assuming it's a good salad. Mine always are.
Congratulations, JennyR!
But you get one very clean turd.
Somebody I know tells a story of getting a bit distracted cleaning the top half and having the kid put the turd in their hand.
187: And people say that kids don't give a shit.
162: Is the football team in Natiloland mediocre?
Um, I don't really follow sports, but except for the Twins, Gopher Hockey and several teams that play sports that no one is really interested in, calling any Natiloland team "mediocre" is doing them a great kindness. The football teams of both my alma maters are a joke. And the Vikings? Jeez, it's like they couldn't be more inept if they tried. At least the Lions have the excuse of being based in a city experiencing Mad Max Times, as Moe so trenchantly put it. There's really no excuse here. But the jeezly sons-of-whores in the Legislature are probably going to buy Wilf a new stadium anyway. Christ, what an asshole.
And you say you don't follow sports.
Tangentially: Bros think they are so clever for dressing up as Duff Man for Halloween, but nobody ever dresses as a Flaming Moe. That would be funny. Or, if not funny, then at least pez.
I don't follow hockey, but surely the "Minnesota Wild" is the worst team name in all of pro sports. It makes me think of raping and assaulting joggers in Central Park.
I like it how the T-Wolves (they suck) don't even get a mention in Natlio's summary.
182: I'm moving to the mid-atlantic, which is where I did undergrad, and this makes me very happy. Also making me happy? 2-2 load!
Before I leave the midwest, however, I'm going to have to catch another Lynx game!
There used to be an MLS team called the "Dallas Burn," which sounds like an STD.
Funnily enough, the most recent professional sporting event I have attended was a Timberwolves game. My favorite part was the T-shirt gun. (Our department got end-of-the-season-no-hope-of-a-post-season seats in the corporate box at the Target Center.)
Also, I had drinks with Eddie Griffin, at that time a member of the Timberwolves, right after his infamous driving-while-wanking incident. Poor fellow, just couldn't stay away from the sauce. At the time, we were not in Wisconsin.
169: OT: If one of you knew how to kill 4,000 birds at once with no obvious cause, you'd tell a guy, right? Because some things you can't just google, regardless of how useful.
On Saturday, the count of crows in Pittsburgh was over 10,000. They roost various places between the East End, the Strip and the North Side, so don't know if they've been over near you en masse. A video of some of them. Not as many nor as synchronized as some of the starling videos you see, but thems crows not starlings.
Is 10,000 an increase for P-burgh? You should write up this finding in a formal paper, if for no other reason than you can use the title "Caws and Effect".
Why don't you like starlings?
Because they're highly invasive, contributing to the decline of numerous native bird populations, and because they wreak havoc on vineyards (and damage other crops, but whatever).
197: It's been in that vicinity for a few years as you can see below. I blame 9/11 (I know--correlation is not cawsation.)
1997 739
1998 563
1999 892
2000 1430
2001 1198
2002 3117
2003 10060
2004 15143
2005 8879
2006 7648
2007 5928
2008 10260
2009 9010
But you weren't really interested in that.
Starlings are winners! Fuck the wimpy-ass native birds; compete successfully in the anthropogenic landscape or die.
If starlings could vote, they would vote Republican.
199: I can remember 2004 as the year my car had shit on it all the time.
199: I was. I would like to see the numbers for Yolo County; I know that West Nile has been hitting the corvid population hard here but I just see more and more giant flocks.
Has anybody figured out where JR is going? Because I'm both a football fan (sort of) and a student of North American cities (kind of) and yet I'm stumped. Also, congratulations, JR! This is, in my field at least, a terrible year to be on the market. To land any job, then, is a major accomplishment. But to land one that sounds quite desirable -- tt, 2-2, located in some city somewhere (or so you say) -- is awesome. Yay, you!
If she is counting birds in Yolo County, Paren will be happy.
I now think the football reference was to where she is currently.
205: She said mid-Atlantic, and mediocre purple and gold football team. Are the Ravens purple and gold?
If starlings could vote, they would vote Republican.
Would not! We're socialists!
goddamn fucking flickering network! that was the starlings speaking.
Well, I think people in her new city would take exception to her calling their purple and gold team mediocre. They made the playoffs, after all.
211: I think they might, yes. Puzzling.
204: Looking at the Putah Creek CBC results here, since the late '90s I see the following for crows, No dropoff, nor was there one for ravens.
815 - 1997
703 239 938 1124 686
1167 - 2003
660 335 1002 990 643
1299 - 2009
207 -> 211, 212. She said the "two cities" that host "a" team.
A metropolitan area from which I recently moved, actually. JR should buy my house.
And leaving the midwest to go *to* the mid-atlantic.
135
Remember back a few months ago, when I was all upset because my advisor pulled me off the market, but I decided to apply for my dream position anyway? (No? Just pretend you do).
Congratuations. Good thing you didn't listen to nosflow .
There was a huge drop in pigeon numbers in my neighborhood. I think they arrested the lady who drove around to parking lots and pitched out stale bread to them. I saw her do it twice, each time about two dozen loaves.
216: I don't understand. Moving *to* the mid-Atlantic with its purple and gold team (per 193 and 156). I don't know why the purple and gold team is referred to as belonging to two cities. Some people see Baltimore and DC as one.
Some people see Baltimore and DC as one.
Some people not including Redskins football fans (the poor saps).
219: My guess is that she answered the question about the meetups with regard to her present location (apparently in the midwest) as that fits the data. But I could be wrong.
I think 156 is not as precise as it could be. I read it as "I will not be near any meet-ups [now or in the future], unless one is held in the Twin Cities."
The problem with mass die-offs is that you can't be sure if the birds are safe to eat. A starling you've killed yourself is probably okay to grill up for a snack.
A starling you've killed yourself is probably okay to grill up for a snack.
Crow, on the other hand, is like eating crow.
220: Oh, I forgot that DC had a football team.
Joking! But 156 is confusing, yes.
There's nothing really wrong with making major life decisions by flipping a coin, is there? It sounds like the easiest thing to do.
227: The unfoggedtariat more or less already advised, essear: west coast, not Boston. Even though Boston is excellent.
Was that what you're talking about?
The Mid-Atlantic isn't actually that big. You got Maryland, you got DC, you got Delaware, and parts of South Jersey. Its roughly contiguous with the Scrapple Belt, although that also includes parts of Pennsylvania, which is in the Northeast.
although that also includes parts of Pennsylvania, which is in the Northeast.
Next you're going to tell me that Connecticut is part of New England.
228: And then I more or less ignored you all and decided on Boston anyway, and now it's suddenly confusing and complicated again.
233: Ah. Sorry for that. Boston is excellent, I must say. Without knowing what the complications are, if west coast (was it the Bay area?) is still on the table, I wouldn't regret that decision. I'd jump at it, myself, as someone who's spent most of her time on the east coast already.
213: Yeah, the annoying thing about that CBC (which I've done) is that it doesn't cover the city of D/avis, which is where the predominant colonies of crows nest. But thanks! I was too lazy to google.
OT: If one of you knew how to kill 4,000 birds at once with no obvious cause, you'd tell a guy, right? Because some things you can't just google, regardless of how useful.
Is this in reference to this?
Ah. Sorry for that.
Thanks, although it's really nothing to be sorry for, since I have a surfeit of good opportunities. It's just that choosing is difficult, and I'm inevitably going to have to turn down people who I really like, and I feel bad about it. I guess these decisions aren't supposed to be so touchy-feely, but I'm bad at saying no.
236: Would it somehow reassure you if I said yes?
And one thing that most politicians, academics, and bankers the upper middle classes have in common is that they are fundamentally parasitical creatures.
Fixed that.
In Britain, not only are Professors immeasurably senior to "Doctors", but the vast majority of practicing physicians don't have a doctorate, although they're addressed as "Doctor" by courtesy. (They have an MB, which is a five year degree - six in Scotland - straight from school.) Likewise lawyers have a BA in law, and a shitload of on the job training.
Also, congratulations to la Robot! But, "I'm moving to the mid-atlantic"? The Azores?
240: A lot of them don't even have a BA in law but just do the conversion course and the LPC.
20
Arrgh. I spent all last week in the office (rather than taking any time off) working on a case. Opposing counsel just called me, hours after I put a completed set of documents on my supervisor's desk for review, to say they're withdrawing the case in its entirety.
Better than just before you were about to give the documents to your supervisor for review I guess. Why would a case be withdrawn like that? Did other defendants settle or something?
243. True, though I think barristers usually have a BA (being barristers, that would be in Jurisprudence, from Oxford). I like the idea that JD = LPC; talk about credential inflation.
You certainly don't need a law BA to be a barrister. I know ones who did history or classics.
246. How do you convert to the bar, then? Cos the LPC is a solicitors' qualification AFAIK.
244: It was a Freedom Of Information Law case. Petitioners wanted some documents to use in a litigation against a third party, my agency withheld them because they would have compromised a law enforcement investigation of the third party, petitioners sued to override our decision to withhold. I don't know what happened, but probably either the litigation settled, or they got the documents from somewhere else: they had a pretty detailed idea of what we had, so I wouldn't be surprised if they had their own source.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had their own source
WIKILEAKS!
246: you do the Bar Professional Training Course, which takes two years.
So it's (law BA OR (other BA AND conversion course)) + (LPC OR BPTC) = Lawyer.
Here is it:
Humanities/English/Social Science BA + Tests well - Willingness to choose poverty - Other career ideas = Lawyer.
Increasingly true for physical science BAs and PhDs in the UK too. Those that don't become bankers anyway.
Oops--I went to sleep, thus missing all of the confusion. I am currently in "the cities", and am moving to the mid-Atlantic. I just got my offer letter today, and holy shit--I'm going to make more money than anyone in my family ever has in a single year! And I'm in the social sciences!
hey fuck you guys. i test well except for the bar exam, and i am pretty sure economics gets no social science respect. my law degree got me a high-end data entry job though.
I know several philosophers who became barristers. I think the skill set -- arsey smart-alecks who are good with words -- overlap quite well. If I had the cash to enable me to do the conversion course it's an option I'd consider myself, tbh. I'm still at the 'wtf do I do now that I've got the doctorate but shit all chance of an academic job' stage myself.