Re: I was the gladhanding sack of shit

1

Interesting story. I wonder how true it is.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 10:59 AM
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Such reflexive incredulity bespeaks an unfortunate cynicism, LB!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:08 AM
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LB is just subtly reinforcing how special her level of internet credibility is.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:10 AM
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It's an area where I don't know anything at all, so I haven't got any basis for evaluating credibility -- I'm not so much being cynical, as being literally agnostic.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:12 AM
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History is bunk.


Posted by: Henry Ford | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:16 AM
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I believe all things, yet I am never deceived.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:34 AM
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6:Every thing possible to be believ'd is an image of truth.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:42 AM
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It reads an awful lot like the book/movie Bringing Down the House.


Posted by: Osgood Yousbad | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:48 AM
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9

All Cretans are deceived.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:49 AM
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10

Er, I guess the movie was actually called 21. You know what I mean. The MIT Blackjack Team thing.


Posted by: Osgood Yousbad | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:50 AM
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11

I imagine that most narratives of blackjack teams are pretty similar.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:53 AM
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12

However, since this thing was posted to kuro5hin two years before Bringing Down the House was published, I doubt it was written in imitation of the latter.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:54 AM
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13

This story seems plausible enough. What's the basis for skepticism?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:57 AM
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As if you can cut to the head of the buffet line! Pfft. Fakest thing I ever read.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 11:58 AM
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How the hell is "kuro5hin" supposed to be pronounced, anyway, and what on earth does it mean? Back when I occasionally commented there, I was too timid to ask - the conceited asshole factor on that site was rather high.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:01 PM
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Anyway, it's interesting and well-written, regardless of how true it is.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:02 PM
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17

I knew a dude (not well, and most of what I'm about to relate is second-hand) that used to count cards. He would drop acid and play blackjack for eight or ten hours, then go to a comped cirque de soleil (or whatever) show and take a nap in his seat. He never won very much, but often managed to basically break even (and get lots of comps), but once he was in Vegas the week before a hacker con and won 25 grand. This was a problem because it hit the $10,000 IRS reporting limit and he was gambling illegaly (under 21, using a fake ID). He sucked it up and signed the forms as whatever name was on his ID, took the money down to the hacker con, and spent it all on drugs and strippers. That con was, needless to say, celebrated in myth and legend for many years subsequent.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:03 PM
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13; Well, by its own terms it's a literally unlikely story -- that is, it's a story that only a hundred or so people in the world could tell, and if you include the fact that the protagonists started without an investment, maybe only one group of people in the world. And it's awfully competently written -- it's not that writing on that level is insanely rare, but not everyone can tell an entertaining story coherently at that length. The fact that the one person in the world with that story to tell also happens to be a good storyteller makes it a little less likely.

But I don't have a real reason to doubt it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:04 PM
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19

I find that drugs and strippers are enjoyed most when paid for with the proceeds of gambling.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:06 PM
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20

There's a semi-apocryphal story of how the American Mathematical Society was disinvited from holding future conferences in Vegas, because all the mathematicians were very interested in watching other people gamble, but wouldn't gamble themselves.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:06 PM
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18: I doubt that there are really so few people with interesting stories along these lines, but otherwise it seems perfectly plausible.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:07 PM
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22

I always pronounced it "cur oh shin".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:07 PM
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I have stories that only I can tell, but because I am a pretty good writer, it is unlikely that any of them are true.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:08 PM
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20: what makes that semi-apocryphal is the idea that the mathematicians wouldn't gamble themselves. Come on! It would be more plausible if the AMS had to voluntarily stop holding conferences in Vegas because too many mathematicians were barred from ever entering casinos.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:08 PM
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25

Kuro5hin explains itself.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:10 PM
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15, 23: Rusty Foster named Kuro5hin -- which is, as noted, pronounced 'corrosion' -- as a pun on his first name.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:11 PM
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I'm moderately surprised to see that kuro5hin is still a going concern, because I naturally assume that anything to which I stop paying attention or of which I have stopped hearing has stopped existing at all.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:13 PM
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13: Human nature and the history of the world. It's got a casual big, swinging dick aspect that frequently accompanies these masters of the universe (even if only temporarily) narratives; Henry Hill had a lot of this. I suspect the basic arc of the narrative was true (like Hill) but embellished in a lot of self-serving ways.

But then again maybe it is absolutely an accurate recounting.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:14 PM
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what makes that semi-apocryphal is the idea that the mathematicians wouldn't gamble themselves.

I assume I'm being teased but I can't figure out the angle.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:17 PM
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The really salient thing about 24 is the completely incorrect use of "semi-apocryphal". The story is implausible for that reason. I am not teasing heebie in saying this, I just think it's pretty unlikely that at least a fair number of mathematicians wouldn't know (or take themselves to know) how to count cards.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:18 PM
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31

Oh, I really don't. Lazy + risk averse + priding themselves on knowing the odds are against them = not gambling.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:21 PM
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32

But maybe that's just me.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:22 PM
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33

The one time I gambled, I hit the jackpot on a nickle slot machine. The lights went off and the nickels gushed out. I made about $35. It was a positive experience.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:23 PM
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I gambled away all my accessible money on video poker and nearly had to walk to the airport, once. On the plus side, I was wicked drunk.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:24 PM
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28: I dunno. Stories of the form "this is a thing that I did that was kind of awesome, but also kind of terrible" seem like they necessarily have to take that form if they're going to be entertaining. It doesn't seem like it implies any vast or endemic untruth.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:25 PM
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priding themselves on knowing the odds are against them

Not if you count cards, though, see.

I may be letting certain examples sway me too much, though.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:26 PM
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37

substitue second "that form" with "on those sorts of characteristics", possibly, or another better phrase if you have one handy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:26 PM
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38

I have another date with this hotel I'm not sure if I'm into. Ugh, I'm more anxious than with girls I want.


Posted by: Lbj | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:27 PM
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39

Date with a hotel? Is there an earlier part of this story I missed?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:28 PM
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40

Uh, hotel should be girl


Posted by: lbj | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:29 PM
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41

lBj doesn't date boy hotels.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:29 PM
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42

Ah. I was envisioning some sort of odd real-estate deal.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:30 PM
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43

Any particular misgivings about this hotel? Or just lack of chemistry?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:32 PM
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44

You need to date universities, or at least high schools, if you want chemistry.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:32 PM
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45

I got as far as looking up "hotel" on urbandictionary, but while there were some promising definitions (a promiscous woman who is also known to widely share details of her affairs, roughly) there didn't seem to be enough of a consensus that it would get used here.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:33 PM
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46

Well, if your hotel girl starts actin' up, then you take her friend.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:39 PM
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47

Mostly the lack of feeling like I wish were making out when I'm out with her.


Posted by: lbj | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:40 PM
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48

Great. Now I'll have that ho-tel mo-tel holiday inn song stuck in my head for the next three hours.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:40 PM
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49

That's probably a bad sign. How come you're anxious?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:41 PM
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50

48: that fakey new-school one? Hate that one. Now, "Jam On It", there was a song.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:42 PM
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51

I assumed it was somehow related to this, which has been discussed here before.

Later Lyndon the building will be bored by an old structure at the point that he decides to reveal his plans of becoming supreme ruler of the Beautiful Buildings.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:43 PM
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52

But I've been to picky in the past and theoretically I'd like to change that.


Posted by: lbj | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:43 PM
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53

AAA JP I was just trying to remember what that was!!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:44 PM
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54

Sometimes the Motel 6 is the only place in town with a bed.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:45 PM
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55

52: That is reasonable. Attraction can grow. Do you have affection for her?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:45 PM
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56

That's probably a bad sign. How come you're anxious?

A: genes, and lack of decision on how I will act


Posted by: lbj | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:45 PM
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57

I didn't like picky. Not to my taste.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:46 PM
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58

I am reading the crap out of this story.


Posted by: jp 吉平 Villanueva | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:46 PM
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52: That is reasonable. Attraction can grow. Do you have affection for her?

a: not really, though its not like we knew each other before dating.


Posted by: lbj | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:50 PM
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To the OP, the gambling industry really is a fucking abomination. The hell with Las Vegas and Indian casinos, and they're particularly gross in places like Detroit.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:51 PM
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61

LBJ, I think you owe it to the post title to be a gladhanding sack of shit with respect to this woman.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:52 PM
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62

But I've been to picky in the past and theoretically I'd like to change that.

This sounds destined to go badly. No one wants to be the person on whom you're trying out your newly lowered standards.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:52 PM
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63

My general sense on dating people you're not sure you're into is that you shouldn't -- it just sets them up to feel insecure and unhappy. But you're the best judge of what you're doing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:53 PM
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64

Do you enjoy her company? This is sounding like you're just reluctant to write it off, but you know that's where it's going.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:55 PM
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65

I'm more thinking about lonely nights if I pass on this. And a lot of attraction seems to be certain flirting styles and cool clothes.


Posted by: lbj | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:55 PM
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66

I would totally be the person on whom someone is trying out their newly lowered standards.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:56 PM
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67

I'm more thinking about lonely nights if I pass on this.

Nothing is lonelier than waking up with someone whose company you can't stand. Unless they're super good looking.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 12:59 PM
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Nothing is lonelier than waking up with someone whose company you can't stand. Unless they're super good looking.

If this only rhymed, it'd be a country song.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:00 PM
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And a lot of attraction seems to be certain flirting styles and cool clothes.

Don't underestimate flirting styles and cool clothes. These things are important.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:00 PM
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70

69: Sadly true.


Posted by: Opinionated College-Aged LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:01 PM
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And a lot of attraction seems to be certain flirting styles and cool clothes.

Cool clothes are attractive, sure, but I'm pretty skeptical that "a lot" of attraction reduces to it.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:02 PM
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(And before everyone judges me for being a superficial twat,...okay, I am superficial. BUT. Cool clothes are in the eye of the beholder, and everyone's clothes are cool enough for their right match. Unless they aren't, in which case call me and we'll work on you.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:02 PM
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73

Of course clothes are important for attraction. Why the fuck else do we wear them except to cover up our hideous forms in a search for human companionship?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:06 PM
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74

Less irritating than sunscreen? Also, pockets.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:08 PM
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73: Warmth. But I guess you wouldn't know about that.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:08 PM
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76

Much easier to run in clothes than when you're swinging free.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:08 PM
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77

Also, I don't recommend sharpening knives naked.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:09 PM
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78

Oh look, a Seinfeld episode.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:12 PM
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79

Norm!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:13 PM
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80

I generally enjoy her company. last time we went out instead of making out I tried too suggest being friends but somehow we ended up going out this weekend with more trappings of a date. I don't think it took.


Posted by: lbj | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:15 PM
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81

You could be in an x.trapnel situation pretty soon if you're not careful.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 1:18 PM
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82

The story does seem vaguely implausible. Counting cards is the easiest gambling trick you can use, and he describes the guy netting well over $1 million doing it. Starting from nothing.

Some good writing though.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 2:44 PM
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82: Well, yeah. He describes something that you can buy books on how to do in any Barnes and Nobel, and then says that literally no one even tries to do it properly. Something's peculiar there.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 3:00 PM
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He says that no one he knew tried to do it, which is not hard to believe, that the one guy who netted so much money took years and a bunch of employees to do it (and that they had to spend a lot of time, and move around to many different casinos in many different places, to do it), that it takes a reasonable amount of work to actually be able to apply the theoretical knowledge of card counting you could get from reading a book … I really don't see why this is so implausible.

Card counting being the easiest gambling trick to learn doesn't mean that it's easy to do well, either, so, you know.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 3:08 PM
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85

68 sounds like a challenge. Unfortunately I am leaving shortly for dinner with friends, so it will have to wait.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 3:12 PM
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#1 et seq: through various ways and reasons, I kind of sort of knew this guy in an internetty sense, ten years ago. My view would be either that this is a true story, or someone otherwise unknown is unbeliavably good at inventing background details when asked, even by, say, a bunch of highly cynical internet trolls who checked every assertion out.

With respect to card counting, I have done it and the user review (which is actually said pretty explicitly in Ed Thorp's book) would be "christ what a fucking tedious thing to do". Anyone with the intelligence and self-discipline to count cards can almost certainly earn more money doing something else, as all of those books eventually conclude. The problem is not any intrinsic difficulty but rather the fact that it is much more mindless and intensive in concentration and short term memory than, say, manning a toll-booth.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 3:29 PM
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87

Tonight I've got a sorta kinda maybe it's a date,
But though her clothes are cool there's something makes me hesitate.
'Cause just last week I told her I would only be her friend,
But I'm tempted still to treat her as a means and not an end.
So I found myself in need of help and sought it ATM,
And Halford, though he's nearly always wrong, spit out this gem:

"Nothing's lonelier than waking up with a woman you can't stand.
Unless she's super good looking, 'cause then I'd understand.
But if she's not that hot, you're better off with just your hand,
As shown by this analogy I'd use, but I'd be banned."


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 4:49 PM
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88

Over $1M in 15man-years of work. Doesn't sound implausible. He also agrees with d2 that it is mind numbingly boring work that takes any fun out of gambling, and says that you have to stay completely disciplined and that if you have the concentration and self-discipline to do it right, do something else and make more money in a less unpleasant job.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 5:07 PM
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87: Now all we need is someone to set it to music.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 5:43 PM
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62: What? I thought the whole point of going out was to get enough drinks going that the date would lower her standards.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 5:50 PM
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91

There's a semi-apocryphal story of how the American Mathematical Society was disinvited from holding future conferences in Vegas, because all the mathematicians were very interested in watching other people gamble, but wouldn't gamble themselves.

I think I've heard the same story told about several groups that apparently like to mock themselves for being dull, non-partying types.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 6:00 PM
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It wasn't the mathematicians. It was the American Physical Society.

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/199908/knowledge.cfm


Posted by: Adam | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 6:05 PM
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93

Yes, that's one I've heard....


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 6:12 PM
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94

||

State of the Negotiations

"Boehner confirms not returning Barry's call."

Three times.

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-22-11 7:33 PM
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95

A less glamorous but funnier story about making money off of casinos.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 12:40 AM
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||
I'm probably behind the curve on this, because I missed the album release at the beginning of the summer, but holy shit is Raphael Saadiq's latest album awesome. If there was a 30-minute version of the title track, I would put it on repeat and complain it was still too short.
|>


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 6:55 AM
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"He describes something that you can buy books on how to do in any Barnes and Nobel, and then says that literally no one even tries to do it properly. Something's peculiar there."

Let's see, what else can you buy books about in B&N and then nobody ever seems to do properly? There's diet books, you can buy those in a bookstore. Nobody ever seems to do that properly. And there's investing books, also very hard to do properly but easy to understand. I'm guessing that the temptation to make a big, boneheaded bet vs. waiting for the right moment is enormous and very hard to resist.


Posted by: bjk | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 9:53 AM
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It's sort of like taking a long 2-point shot in basketball. If you make it, then no problem, you're shooting 100% on made shots. And if you miss, you weren't going to make it anyway, so it doesn't matter that you would have been better off taking a 3-point shot.


Posted by: bjk | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 9:56 AM
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I'm more thinking about lonely nights if I pass on this. And a lot of attraction seems to be certain flirting styles and cool clothes.

"Better than nothing" isn't a recipe for success and that attraction quip sounds like you've internalized a bunch of rules of attraction from shitty movies and tv or something.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 10:09 AM
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100

Kobe.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 10:39 AM
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31

Oh, I really don't. Lazy + risk averse + priding themselves on knowing the odds are against them = not gambling.

Certainly betting against the odds has never appealed to me. As for card counting as others have pointed out it is incredibly tedious and boring, surely more so than professional investing of which Keynes said (5.4.5):

... The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll. ...


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 12:59 PM
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Anyone with the intelligence and self-discipline to count cards can almost certainly earn more money doing something else

True. That immensely irritating book about MIT graduates counting cards in Vegas (de-Asianised for the cinema) led you to the conclusion "if you've got eight to a dozen very bright, very dedicated MIT graduates working eighteen hour days for you and you can't get a turnover of more than $1.5 million, you're probably not very good at whatever business you're in."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 2:02 PM
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103

Inteview about the MIT team.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 2:36 PM
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104

OT: Fox's Bill O'Reilly on the Institute of Medicine's recommendation that contraception be considered a preventative medical service:

Universal coverage of contraception would not lead to fewer unintended pregnancies because "[m]any women -- I hate to say it. It goes back to our previous segment. Many women who get pregnant are blasted out of their minds when they have sex and not going to use birth control anyway."

(h/t Steve Benen)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-23-11 5:08 PM
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105

can he really have made it this far in life without knowing how birth control pills work at all?


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 07-24-11 7:26 AM
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105: At least some of his money (or more accurately time enabled by his money) made its way to Planned Parenthood.

... she [Mackris] is a member of the contemporary council at the Contemporary Art Museum of St. Louis and "volunteers at Planned Parenthood."
Mackris is the woman who won a settlement against him for harassment which included the infamous loofah/falafel phone sex.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-24-11 7:40 AM
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105: I admit that wasn't my first objection to his statement.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-24-11 8:58 AM
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105: can he really have made it this far in life without knowing how birth control pills work at all?

Or, indeed, without ever sleeping with a woman who was sober?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-25-11 2:30 AM
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