I really hate the new Coldplay song
Really, you could have stopped there. And the great thing is, it's always pertinent.
Huh. By me it's innocuous, pleasant enough pop. It's not something I'd buy, but then I don't buy much pop to begin with.
like U2
The world is full of smart people of good will who love U2. I don't understand this.
4-year-old music critic: It looks like Wall-E.
Me: Do you like it?
4yomc: I guess so.
4yomc: It is kinda like the O O song.
NB: apparently the O O song is "Spaceman" by The Killers.
4yomc: Can we watch "Mahna Mahna"?
It's music like Coldplay that killed Amy Winehouse. She was too beautiful for this fallen world.
I think I've started to get what it is people hate about U2 and Coldplay songs. I still like a lot of it though. As far as I know I haven't heard this Coldplay song though.
Is anyone willing to take a $10 bet that there is a contrarian "In Defense of Coldplay" article on Slate. I swear I haven't looked. Honor system that you haven't looked either.
This is the first time I'd heard the song. It sounds like every other song that gets played at the end of Gray's Anatomy or whatever. It's not much interesting, but it's sufficiently generic that I probably wouldn't even realize I was hearing it repeatedly. On the other hand, I completely sympathize with feeling like you're being bludgeoned by a song (coughSingleLadiescough).
I don't know why I just subjected myself to that. But now I'll recognize it if it's playing in a store I'm about to leave.
I don't understand why it's popular. At least "The Scientist" and "Clocks" were catchy. But then, I fear I'll never find anything as good as '90's music.
Re:3
I tend to view really liking U2 as a definitive refutation of anyone's claim to be either smart or of good-will. Coldplay, on the other hand, are just one of those music for people who don't like music bands, and I find it hard to work up enough hate. Bono, otoh, really is a hateful cock.
Wait, what's the case for Bono being a hateful cock? I would assume anyone who says U2 is their favorite band isn't a music fan, but hard to argue with an at least decent run of albums through Achtung Baby.
12: I wouldn't say I really like U2, but I own enough of their albums that it was perhaps a good thing that I was unable to organize an Oxford meet up this July. But don't you worry, I'll be back, and with much more free time, so you can hate on my adolescent nostalgia for U2 in person.
He's a vile humourless egotist. Most of my dislike is based on seeing him interviewed on British TV which really does him no favours. They, as a band, have made some OK music, not to my taste much, but Ok. Any dislike is largely driven by the twat singing. I can probably hunt up representative links when I'm not commenting from a phone.
Opinions about music are more fun when vehemently held.
vile humourless egotist
Hmmm this does seem true about Bono although it's perhaps magnified to Ttam due to distinctly British norms of self-deprecation and mandatory humor-fulness.
And it's certainly true that I have no desire to go out and listen to a U2 album. Still, I remember thinking to myself when The Joshua Tree came out that it was an incredibly beautiful album and I bet if Bono had died in a plane crash immediately after releasing it everyone would so agree.
He's a vile humourless egotist.
Agreed. He really is insufferable.
OT: My dissertation defense is tomorrow. I feel like my body is eating itself from the inside.
Give your body some food. You are prepared, and you know this material. You love this material. You even got a gorgeous tattoo of it. You are fascinating when you talk about it, trust me. Your department is supportive; they wouldn't have let you get this far if they weren't sure you were ready. There's nothing more to do; go eat, go walk.
21: Relax! I'm sure you're more than ready for it.
OT: My dissertation defense is tomorrow. I feel like my body is eating itself from the inside.
It will be fine. Everybody wants you to pass, and everybody wants you to do well.
Come to think of it, I think the tattoo is the key here. Could you go to your defense in a sheer body stocking?
Maybe I can cut a peekaboo window into my clothing to reveal at just the right moment.
Like, right after you stick the landing, and you do the gymnastics finish.
Tearaway pants? Scarlet embroidered "ABD" ripped off to reveal the tattoo?
Eat, walk, listen to lowbrow-pleasure music.
I assume your papier-mâché model of the Siege of Namur is all finished.
Good luck, but I'm sure you don't need it.
I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.
My dissertation defense is tomorrow.
The best defense is a good offense defenestration.
Shiv one as soon as you arrive. That way none of them will try to make you their bitch.
Alternatively, there may still be time to get an Aryan Brotherhood tattoo.
I wonder if 34 is the most universally useful advice in the world (obviously, with shiv meant metaphorically). I can't think of a better candidate offhand. They ought to teach it in elementary school as part of a secular catechism.
I wouldn't say that I love U2, but I do very much like them (up to and including Achtung Baby, they fell of a cliff pretty fast after that). I'm sure watching an interview with Bono would be excruciating, but lots of rock stars are douchebags. Yes their lyrics are over-sincere, but not everything needs to be ironic all the time. Obviously they're not a real music fan's band (and I'm not a real music fan), but they're great for singing along to.
Almost NMM to AWB ABD! Listen to Megan's sound advice and can't wait to congratulate you.
I always told my SAT students to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer and go to bed early. That's probably not terrible advice.
"NB: apparently the O O song is "Spaceman" by The Killers."
this is a great song.
Bono's pretentiousness is part of what makes U2 enjoyable. and its much the same personality the infuses their early work: taking the nervy energy of post-punk and making it confident.
coldplay isn't good enough to hate, their first album was a bit more twee. i enjoyed it when it first came out, though the more recent things are not really worth listening, are they?
As for the OP, I am in precisely the right mood to be deeply moved by a song declaring that every teardrop is a waterfall, and I still think the Coldplay song sucks.
In grad school there was a semi-tradition of baking cookies for your committee the night before your qual. This gives the student something other than their quals to do the night before, and gives the committee something to eat during the exam. (I say semi-tradition because not everyone did it, and in particular I don't know any women who did.)
Also, Megan's totally right in 22.
I went for a run and missed the press conferences. On the whole, I think I made a good choice. However, seeing Boehner's green tie/blue shirt thing I wonder if I didn't miss like six fashion trends.
every teardrop is a waterfall
And every rose has its thorn.
With his coloring, Boehner should clearly wear blue, but he can't because blue is now a Democratic color. Instead he tried to sneak in the blue with the shirt and the near-blue with the green tie. (Green for money? For Ireland? Who knows.) Politically fine, but sartorially a mess.
Green and Orange together, for the future of Ireland.
Green for money? For Ireland? Who knows.
Presumably not for the environment.
43: I am a prolific baker, but I was too nervous the night before my quals to bake. I bought cookies and the committee didn't eat them. I am not baking tonight.
I find baking is the thing I want to do while I'm writing something. I have made some insanely good rugelach that way.
I once made a cake that was insane, but not in a good way. It started spouting cake-supremacist slogans and blamed all of its flaws and difficulties on a conspiracy of the bread rolls.
So you're the one who gave it the pamphlets.
Trashing U2 without distinguishing which incarnation of U2 is just silly.
I, for one, only trash the spy-plane incarnation.
The Negativland album is a classic.
8: Sometimes I feel like I'm being bludgeoned by a meme. Nothing in particular cough"cough[thing]cough"cough.
U2 reminds me of being 17 and liking (for instance) Saint-Saens and being drastically less cool than the people who liked U2 and well aware of it. This was just sort of a shrug-inducing discontent; not cry-yourself-to-sleep material. But yeah, that's my association with U2.
Oh neat I've never killed the blog before.
I'm not a real music fan by any measure and it's rare that I listen to any album and find myself liking more than 3-4 songs* on it, in the sense of actively wanting to hear them again. There's a little more variation in the number of songs on an album I won't skip when I'm not listening to them closely. By those standards, the U2 albums mentioned here as being not so bad - which unlike a lot of music discussed on unfogged I've actually heard - don't seem remarkably bad. This is also true for me for early Coldplay. More recent stuff, I don't know. The U2 I don't think I've heard; the Coldplay I"ve been aware of has been generally unlistenable.
*And this is really more of an upper limit, not an average.
I'd been lurking, not wanting to be the one to smash Smearcase's sense of accomplishment.
Thread killers must be stopped. Also, the stuff I have to do for tomorrow must not be started.
I have a lack of somnia and I'm not used to it. Maybe I shouldn't have ran so late in the day.
I shouldn't watch TV. There's a woman getting her toddler a spray tan from a guy at a body shop. I think he used a different sprayer than he uses for painting the cars. President Obama's way forward counts on the ability of those people to make a convincing case to their member of Congress.
I can think of few people more qualified to speak to the Speaker than the patrons of a spray-on tanning place.
U2 were always cock but Achtung Baby is where they went into ubercock mode. Liking them before that is permissible (if you grew up in the eighties with mainstream tastes it's hard not to like at least some of their songs) but afterwards it's just plain wrong.
Coldplay is the 21st century U2, okay to like if you're thirteen but unfortunately most of their fans seem to be sad thirty and fortysomething gits.
Music for people who don't like music: Dire Straits, Michael Jackson, Elvis.
The only two cocks worse than Bono are Sting and Bob Geldof.
AWB - Loads of good advice upthread. You have awoken refreshed and it's going to be a stroll in the park.
The only two cocks worse than Bono are Sting and Bob Geldof.
Damn hard call on those three.
I remember an interview the lovely Ms Laverne did with U2 for the Culture Show, in which Bono made some 'self-deprecating' (i.e. very much not self-deprecating) joke and she came back with a better one and he just went 'Hah hah, very funny, yes, very clever.' No laughter, and a facial expression that could have curdled milk.
I'm sure watching an interview with Bono would be excruciating, but lots of rock stars are douchebags.
Yes, but in the UK (and presumably Ireland) Bono is interviewed, on the proper news, about 20 times as often as any other pop star apart from the aforementioned Geldof. He even guest edited the Independent once, for God's sake.
Also: preaching self-righteously about how other people aren't doing enough to save the world while you're a tax exile (from virtual tax haven Ireland!) is supremely twattish behaviour.
And, musically, I think most people would agree a fair bit of their early stuff was quite good, but for the last 20 years they've been churning out self-indulgent, meritless bollocks.
70: Where is he domiciled for tax purposes? I like Sean Connery a lot, but it was a bit rich to listen to him at an SNP conference when he's off living the life of a tax exile in Spain.
He splits his time between the very posh suburbs of Dublin and the South of France. I wonder if he pays taxes in either Ireland or France?
I'm not sure where he personally is domiciled, but U2 moved their company to the Netherlands a while back, where tax on royalties is minimal.
chris y, you have to see what I posted in the "Job Creators Creating Jobs" thread.
Is anyone willing to take a $10 bet that there is a contrarian "In Defense of Coldplay" article on Slate. I swear I haven't looked.
Don't know about that, but there was a takedown of U2 on approximately the same grounds that heebie criticizes Coldplay.
KR, I think that you too would appreciate my comment in the Job Creators thread.
Just wanted to have my proper name come up in the comment box. Test.
Who gives a fuck ? Those guys are from England.
You gotta admit, Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin are perfect for each other.
80: too fucking right. those poor kids.
If I were offered a choice between cold cuts and Colplay, I'd be really torn. On the one hand, slimy bits of shiver-inducing processed whatever. On the other hand, lunch meat.
82: We would have also accepted "One is surrounded by white bread and cheese."
If I had two cold items, I'd name one of them Coltor and the other Coltuga.
I feel mildly hypocritical poking fun at Coldplay, if only because one of the groups I played with until recently created slick, overly produced pop songs.
Okay, I'm over it.
I pretty much only listen to whatever music is stupid enough to get on the radio so I hardly hear anything but overly produced pop songs.
Having an iPod-ready car stereo has pretty much ended my radio listening career.
re: 82
There's always Coldcut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxNrr0pBk2g
re: 86
If those were the ones I heard, I much preferred those to Coldplay, fwiw.
88 was me banging on the old piano.
Music for people who don't like music: Dire Straits, Michael Jackson, Elvis.
I like "Sultans of Swing," and "Mystery Train" is definitely in my top 20 songs of all time.
"ABC" is fun, too.
Oh dear. I really love Dire Straits. 75% out of loyalty to high school Heebie, but hey, high school Heebie really liked music and was also a person. So you're so refuted.
If those were the ones I heard, I much preferred those to Coldplay, fwiw.
Them's the ones, and thanks.
Also I love Elvis, but mostly on the campy level.
Music for people who don't like music: Dire Straits, Michael Jackson, Elvis.
A clear attempt at trolling? Bullshit, whatever the intent.
Someone who loves Dire Straits but thinks the Steve Miller Band is the worst music on Earth looks to me to be determining musical preferences by throwing darts.
Dire Straits generally avoided the plague of deathly seriousness which infects most successful rock bands. Steve Miller not so much.
Someone who loves Dire Straits but thinks the Steve Miller Band is the worst music on Earth looks to me to be determining musical preferences by throwing darts.
I loved them both dearly in high school. But then in college everyone kept playing Steve Miller.
98: Heebie, from a couple weeks ago. It's always interesting which bands produce strong reactions in different people. I mean, I can't really explain my visceral dislike of the Beach Boys either.
Turns out U2 is playing here in Pittsburgh tonight approximately 500 feet from where I am sitting. One of my workmates has just informed me that he paid for pretty fricking expensive tickets right up front. I'll have a report tomorrow.
Since I'm not constrained by the narrow and cramped Unfogged-approved idea of good taste I found "Vertigo" to be an engaging song. Did hear it a bit more than I would have liked.
I also first heard and liked "Clocks" in a Peter Pan trailer before I realized who or what Coldplay was.
101: Ah. That makes sense. It took me several years after college before I could stand to listen to anything from The Big Chill soundtrack.
Dire Straits is pretty good. I mean, it's not Bach, but it's definitely solid third-tier material.
Dire Straits generally avoided the plague of deathly seriousness which infects most successful rock bands.
Also good for this reason: Queen.
103: When U2 played here awhile ago, they brought in something absurd like over 100 semi-trucks worth of gear/lights/stage equipment. I could also hear them crystal clear—as in, I could make out the words of songs I didn't know—from my front porch, over two miles away.
Dire Straits is pretty good
Well, they didn't give them money for nothing.
102: They sucked. What's hard to explain?
The only two cocks worse than Bono are Sting and Bob Geldof.
I hope you have seen the video with FOUR STINGS singing Dowland's "Can She Excuse." It's kind of horrifying. I mean his performance of Dowland, it could be worse, but.
108: horrible yes, but a startlingly realistic depiction how such a performance would have looked in the late 16th century.
You know what's awesomely horrible? Kings of Leon shreds.
I wonder what they'd charge for letting me use that name on a breakfast cereal?
The B side of Brothers in Arms is awfully damn serious.
How can someone say Dire Straits isn't as "deathly serious" as the STEVE MILLER BAND? "Money For Nothing" is the only song they ever did that isn't either nostalgic, angry or depressing. Meanwhile throughout his period of greatest acclaim Steve Miller was basically an indoor version of Jimmy Buffett. I don't think anyone has ever recorded more songs that fade out in the MIDDLE OF A VERSE. Or more songs that start out rhyming and then give up on the concept of rhyming halfway through. What a lazy nincompoop.
Dire Straits generally avoided the plague of deathly seriousness which infects most successful rock bands.
Yes, by writing "Money for Nothing", over which I would take deathly seriousness (or, frankly, death) ten times out of ten.
re: 110
St. Sanders 'shreds' videos can always cause near hysterical levels of laughter:
http://www.stsanders.com/www/pages/videos/band-shreds/sts-rolling-stones.php
http://www.stsanders.com/www/pages/videos/guitar-shreds/steve-vai-shreds-in-denver.php
It's a youtube 'meme' but he's the original and best.
The B side of Brothers in Arms is awfully damn serious.
And the title track itself is pretty serious, as befits a song that was inspired by the Falklands War. But there's a difference between "writing serious songs" and "taking yourself too seriously".
115: Such an improvement. I would much rather hear Bootsy Collins talk about my peaches.
I do prefer the Steve Miller Band's cutting-edge computer animation to the "Money For Nothing" video though.
Apropos of nothing [although I expect Apo* will probably like it], Steve Spacek's album** is perfect summer music.
Probably mentioned this before, but it's still great.
* one of the other members of Spacek is producing Raphael Siddiq
** 5 years old, but I only recently discovered it.
|| From Facebook feed at 9:45 am: It's never too early to plan your next beer encounter. Dieu du Ciel's Route des épices (Spice Route) is a deliciously crafted rye beer, brewed with black & green peppercorns. The result is chocolate-caramel maltiness with an invigorating spicy finish. Serious stuff.|>
And the title track itself is pretty serious, as befits a song that was inspired by the Falklands War.
Really, is there any more serious subject for popular music than the liberation of the sheep islands? Well, perhaps one, as the world will discover when I release my 41-hour song cycle about the invasion of Grenada.
re: 123
I think the key difference is that quite a few people died or got maimed and British people* had a period when ships full of people on fire were on the news. That was part of what made the Falklands such a bloody stupid/tragic event.
* and I presume Argentinians
Turns out there were 19 US deaths (I thought it was less). Still, there were hundreds on each side in the Falklands.
Really? You don't find any even mild irony that the following lyrics were (apparently, I hadn't known this until Ajay mentioned it) written concerning the grand tragedy of sheep rocks?
Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I?ve witnessed your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though we were hurt so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms
There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
U2 and Coldplay are both terrible. PJ Harvey writes serious songs, has raised sheep. Does she take herself too seriously?
127. Not noticed Polly taking herself unduly seriously. Don't know how earnest she gets about sheep farming.
"How Does It Feel?" by Crass is about the Falklands. Um, let's see, "Stand Down Margaret" by the Beat. Er, there must be a Billy Bragg song . . . ah yes, "Island of No Return" (I can take the killing; I can take the slaughter, but I don't talk to Sun reporters . . .). Others?
Very wrong about "Stand Down Margaret" apparently. But adding Elvis C's "Shipbuilding" to the list. (I Googled that one.)
128: I recently heard her being interviewed about "Let England Shake". She seemed to be taking herself extremely seriously. But then, I don't think that's always a bad thing.
She seemed to be taking herself extremely seriously.
I think there's a difference between taking what you do seriously in terms of trying to turn in a good show/play a good song and having an overdeveloped sense of your own place in the greater scheme of things.
Yeah, I'd always thought it was more inspired by Nicaragua/Salvador, based on the preceding songs on the record. Just watched the video, though, and the Falklands imagery is unmistakable.
Still, happy to put this up against that noise you kids who "like music" seem to be listening to.
Is there a poem that the song "Let England SHake" uses? Yeats' "Dancing Days are Gone" is close, but I have a vague memory of something even closer, which I am convinced is invisible in Google because of these two more famous lyrics and my inability to remember more exactly.
133. It turns out that Rick Astley is a slightly built redhead, who knew?
Yeah, I'd always thought it was more inspired by Nicaragua/Salvador
Now I kind of want to listen to "If I Had a Rocket Launcher"
I am incorrect
The song was inspired by Cockburn's visit, sponsored by OXFAM, to Guatemalan refugee camps in Mexico following the counterinsurgency campaign of dictator Efraín Ríos Montt.[
This is just bizarre, however,
In 2009, Cockburn performed the song for Canadian troops in Afghanistan; he was subsequently presented (temporarily) with a rocket launcher.
Also
During their Maybe You Should Drive tour, Barenaked Ladies often inserted the "some son-of-a-bitch would die" lyric into their own song "If I Had $1000000".
129: The Fall, "Marquis Cha Cha"
New Model Army, "Spirit of the Falklands"
Barenaked Ladies! Now there's a group we can all agree about, with regards to their mega sucktrocity.
136.2: Because who gets a rocket launcher temporarily. How are they going to get it back, unless they didn't give you a rocket?
I don't believe in guarded borders and I don't believe in hate
I don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
And when I talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would retaliate
As much as we all respect the sentiment, can we all agree that these lyrics kind of suck?
I like more Coldplay singles than Radiohead singles. I can't sit through an entire coldplay album though.
141: The delivery makes them believable, and once you buy into the feeling, they really rock.
If that makes any sense.
Barenaked Ladies! Now there's a group we can all agree about, with regards to their mega sucktrocity.
Not quite. Their first album was good (and I like a couple of songs off their second album). I concede that they haven't improved with age, but it isn't their fault that "If I Had $1000000" was massively overplayed. "Box Set" is great.
As much as we all respect the sentiment, can we all agree that these lyrics kind of suck?
Sure.
concerning the grand tragedy of sheep rocks?
Interesting fact; based on 255 UK, 649 Argentinian and 3 Falklander deaths, "the grand tragedy of sheep rocks" was one third the size of 9/11, scaled to a population of (UK + Argentina + Falklands) almost exactly a third the population of the USA.
Who knew the Brits were so sensitive on this one? (I could understand the Argentinians).
And to be clear, the Falklands War was a big deal for Argentina, mostly because it brought about the collapse of the junta and exposed the total failure of the Argentinian military state. Writing a war song (the aforementioned "Brothers in Arms") about the travails of a British soldier in a three month conflict is not the worst thing in the world, but is just ever so faintly ridiculous, as one assumes DSquared and Ttam would recognize in most other contexts.
Who knew the Brits were so sensitive on this one?
Rather a lot of people died, many of them horribly. Many more were mained. I knew Bush and Obama don't give a shit about that sort of thing, but who knew Americans in general were so insensitised to it?
Somebody took a chunk of U.K. territory by military force and the outcome of the conflict was, mostly because of the distances involved, uncertain. Also, how long has it been since the U.S. has lost a combat ship in a naval battle? Those kinds of things are very vivid.
Halford is being an ass on this.
However, I would be very happy to listen to a 41-hour song cycle about the invasion of Grenada, if it were a good song cycle.
Americans in general
Halford is Every American!
re: 149.last
Quite.
As chris says, a lot of died, and the way they died was nasty and broadcast on our nightly news in ways that many of us who watched remember quite well.
but who knew Americans in general were so insensitised to it?
Do you know many Americans?
re: 153, etc
That's not to say that the Falklands is some sacred cow. If someone made a comedy about a farcical attempt to recapture a sheep-covered rock, I'd be first in line. Just as I think it's great that Chris Morris made Four Lions. But it's not really hard to understand why people might feel it appropriate to write songs, or say something serious through art, about it either.
154: I bet I know like 50 Americans.
Also, how long has it been since the U.S. has lost a combat ship in a naval battle?
Seven years prior to the sinking of the Sheffield.
106: When U2 played here awhile ago, they brought in something absurd like over 100 semi-trucks worth of gear/lights/stage equipment.
Yes, per this article, U2 are job creators creating jobs.
...with a massive steel structure -- dubbed "The Claw" -- that takes more than four days to construct and requires 136 touring crew members and 120 local stagehands.And it is actually at Heinz so more like 1/4 mile from where I sit (and will not be at the time, if I hear them at my house 6 miles away I will be impressed).
...
The stage, which is carried by 120 trucks, stands 90 feet tall with a center spire that reaches more than 150 feet,
158: Got to do something to make up for Bono being so ugly.
157: I don't think that counts as a naval battle and I know it doesn't count as a combat ship.
157: Oh, combat ship. Nevermind.
I guess you could count the USS Cole, under expansive definitions of "lost" and "naval battle".
Oh, fine. I will retract my assertion that the Falklands War is directly comparable to Grenada, although there is a fundamental irony to the battle over such an unimportant bit of territory. But I still think the Dire Straights song is over the top for the subject matter.
161, 162: Knecht knew that, but it's part of the American character never to admit defeat.
Do you know many Americans?
It varies, but about eight currently, in the flesh, and of course they're not insensitised to war and the associated shitrain - I was taking a swipe at Halford for being a jerk
I don't think I'd count the USS Cole. My point is that the Falkland's conflict was full of very intense fighting and that, uncommonly for combat involving developed nations post WWII*, the two sets of combatants that were close to the same weight class. It's not even slightly comparable to Grenada except that both involved islands.
*Unlike Vietnam, this was not asymmetrical warfare.
Obviously, whether or not the Falkland's should have been fought over is a separate question.
Writing a war song (the aforementioned "Brothers in Arms") about the travails of a British soldier in a three month conflict is not the worst thing in the world, but is just ever so faintly ridiculous, as one assumes DSquared and Ttam would recognize in most other contexts.
I thought we'd established that the song was not written about that war, but the video was made about it.
I think my point, if I had one, other than being an insensitive Yank warmonger who wants to put nukes in Europe or whatever, is that whatever the relative strengths of the combatants going in, the victory was a fairly easy one for Great Britain and not one that easily lends itself to tragic myths.
The two sets of combatants that were close to the same weight class.
Not precisely. The outcome would never have been in doubt but for the logistical handicap borne by the UK.
It's not even slightly comparable to Grenada except that both involved islands.
This is indisputably true.
I don't think I'd count the USS Cole.
There was also the successful attack by Iraq on the USS Stark in 1987 (employing the same missile that sunk the HMS Sheffield). The ship wasn't lost, but there were more fatalities than on the Sheffield.
Not sure what point I'm arguing with that. Just preening, I guess.
Obviously, whether or not the Falkland's should have been fought over is a separate question.
Certainly. Personally I think probably not. However, regardless of the question of whether you should go to war to assist your fellow citizens under attack when they live in an inconvenient location, the Falklands/Malvinas are actually strategically very important, because a great many countries are vying for position to stake a claim to Antarctic mineral deposits when the crunch comes. The actual Falklands aren't all that important in this game, but the "Falkland Island Dependencies" are critical.
I had forgotten by the USS Stark.
Also the attack by Iran, through mines, on the USS Samuel B. Roberts in 1987, no loss of life but the ship was heavily damaged. Whatever, we can all agree that war is bad and Dire Straits is OK to good.
I don't know about ballads, but "Heartbreak Ridge, " starring and directed by Clint Eastwood, was a fairly successfuly movie treatment of the Grenada War.
Or, to keep digging myself deeper in on this, a more relevant comparison would be the first Gulf war. Clearly a big war against a real opponent, and roughly similar numbers of US casualties. And it even produced some good art (I like Three Kings). But wouldn't Brothers in Arms be faintly ridiculous if it was about the travails of US troops in fighting Operation Desert Storm?
But adding Elvis C's "Shipbuilding" to the list. (I Googled that one.)
Written, of course, by Robert Wyatt.
Robert, as you say, you really should stop digging. I spent some time in Britain during the Falklands War, and, as Ttam says, the news coverage was absolutely horrifying, much more like what Americans saw during Vietnam* than what we saw during Gulf War I: The Video Game.
* Different scale, I know.
Do not let them win, Halford. Go with ever further-reaching analogies, go like the wind. In fact, you, here, now are the analogy of Brothers In Arms.
177: Not according to Wikipedia, no.
re: 177
Written by Costello, but for Wyatt. It's not a Wyatt composition (although his vocal would bring a tear to a glass eye).
Incidentally, his recent stuff with Gilad Atzmon is also similarly beautiful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fma360JjSM
181: YouTube won't allow me to see that link. Fuckers.
Halford is right in that "Brothers in Arms" is an intrinsically ridiculous song, therefore it's faintly ridiculous to be about any specific thing. It would make Stalingrad seem faintly ridiculous.
The scene in Peep Show where the David Mitchell character tries to pick up his neighbor by describing the battle of Stalingrad would be even better if he ended with singing "Brothers in Arms".
re: 183
What about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJBUcAsG1tI
which is a non-British one (has a bit of guff at the start)
Also, Atzmon is one of those sax players [they all seem to be European or Israeli] who can shred it up with the best of them, but also sound like he's playing the same instrument as Coleman Hawkins/Lester Young/Sonny Rollins, et al, rather than just having a querulous screechy wail.
OK FINE. I apologize for minimizing the tragedy and trauma of the Falklands to the fine British people.
185: nope, not that one either. Oh well. I'll remain benighted, I guess.
187: good for you. They're very sensitive about fucking sheep, you know.
re: 188
That seems like it must be something fucked up that youtube is doing to you with region detection. I can usually see most things on youtube except for bastard Comedy Central videos.
I can provide a spotify link, for those who have that.
As much as we all respect the sentiment, can we all agree that these lyrics kind of suck?
In terms of Bruce Cockburn songs with somewhat clunky but ambitious and impressive lyrics, there are a couple of good ones on World Of Wonders
"Call It Democracy" has a verse
Sinister cynical instrument
Who makes the gun into a sacrament --
The only response to the deification
Of tyranny by so-called "developed" nations'
Idolatry of ideology
and "People See Through You" opens with
You've got covert action
Prejudice to extremes
You've got primitive cunning
And high tech means
You've got eyes everywhere
But people see through you
Those verses are, really, quite good.
192 gets it right. In related news, Bruce Cockburn was apparently born in May 1945, making him older than Neil Young. I thought that album from 1984 was early in his career!
"Dr." would be an excellent word. Have we heard it officially?
We have: Doctor Bear is correct.
Only good news I've heard all day. Yay Dr. Bear!!! I hope she's sober enough to remember where she lives.
That is good news, and not at all surprising.
Congratulations!
Written by Costello, but for Wyatt. It's not a Wyatt composition (although his vocal would bring a tear to a glass eye).
In retrospect, I knew that. Wonder how I got it mixed up.
Costello's own version (trumpet solo by Chet Baker) is far from contemptible either. But not Wyatt.
Congrats, AWB!
The first time I saw Bruce Cockburn, I had very little interest. I figured it would be one long sermon set to music, and I didn't feel like being preached at. To my surprise, he put on a really good show. He has an oddly compelling stage presence: low-key, but powerful.
He belongs to that generation of Canadians (or "Canadians") where every other boy was named Bruce or Douglas or Gordon.
Costello's own version (trumpet solo by Chet Baker) is far from contemptible either. But not Wyatt.
I actually like Costello's version better. Probably because I heard it first, but I would credit it to the Chet Baker solo which, to me, completely makes the song.
Hooray, and congratulations, Dr. Bear.
205 gets it so right about Canadian boys' names that I laughed. (Right about Cockburn in concert, too.)
Excellent, congratulations to AWB.
