Re: Except I can't think of any.

1

It is always fun being from Kentucky. I don't think I have to tell you the version for Kentucky, do I?


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:26 AM
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You should never date anybody from Hawaii. They all live really far away.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:27 AM
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People from Massachusetts are very taxing.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:29 AM
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1: They all suffer from Bluegr Ass?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:33 AM
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It's best not to date people from space as they're aliens sent to destroy you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:34 AM
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You should never date anyone from before the Pleistocene epoch if you are using Carbon-14 dating.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:36 AM
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You definitely shouldn't carbon date mummies, because they definitely don't fit within the normal ½(age)+7 parameters.

(On preview, pwned and with bigger words. But I used a fraction html code, dammit!)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:37 AM
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And he replied, "Really? What position does she play?"


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:38 AM
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9

People from Idaho don't like to be told that you're da pimp.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:39 AM
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Left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers. I think of us that way sometimes, and I live here.


Posted by: Alvy Singer | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:41 AM
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10: "So they do have horns!"


Posted by: OPINIONATED GUY IN "LOVE AND DEATH" | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:42 AM
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No, that was wonderful. I love being reduced to a cultural stereotype


Posted by: Allison Porchnik | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:43 AM
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13

Fifty State Stereotypes in Two Minutes


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:45 AM
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11: The Russian Jew does. The German Jew has these stripes.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:45 AM
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Alternate to 5: You should never date people from blackholes; they always want too much space.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:53 AM
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13: his Native American name was....Thread Killer.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:53 AM
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Fifty States, Fifty Slogans.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:53 AM
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You shouldn't date anyone from Delaware. When he/she insults you by stereotyping your state, you won't have a retort.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:56 AM
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18: You shouldn't date people from Delaware; they'll end up showing you more interest than you bargained for.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:05 AM
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Insults referring to the state as a whole are a lot easier to construct than state-resident stereotypes. I.e., "Your sister was going to come over to my place, but it turned out she charged 19 cents a mile."


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:08 AM
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You shouldn't date anybody from Delaware, because they're actually a shell company with nominal title to thousands of yachts.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:10 AM
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I could have made it before Stanley if I hadn't been compelled to work out what Delaware's tolls actually are per mile of I-95.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:11 AM
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"Living here is like having bad silicone implants. If you stay, you just get weighed down. If you try to run, you get two black eyes."


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:13 AM
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You shouldn't date anyone from Delaware. Every time you go to see them, you will be stuck in traffic at a fucking toll booth for two hours.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:20 AM
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Dover? I don't even like her!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:22 AM
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26

You shouldn't date anyone from the North Pole. IT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST ANYMORE!


Posted by: Climate-Change Scaremonger | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:23 AM
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Denver? I don't even know her!


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:24 AM
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No matter who you date, they will always be incorporated in Delaware, so it's useless to resist.

You should never date anyone from DC because as soon as your relationship goes public they'll be forced to resign their job.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:26 AM
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29

"I come from Florida, land of escapes: to which the worst of the North have escaped and from which the worst of the South never will."


Posted by: Cary Tennis | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:27 AM
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30

Never date anybody from Canada, because they're imaginary.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:30 AM
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31

Montpelier? I just met her!


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:33 AM
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32

Never date a spotted feline from Africa; they're cheetahs.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:38 AM
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33

Salem? I don't even own them!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:39 AM
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Rochester? On our first date?!


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:41 AM
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Rochester? She's not even a capital!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:43 AM
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36

Needham? I mean, I wouldn't say that; it's more of a crush at this point.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:45 AM
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37

Annapolis? I wouldn't to mine.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:51 AM
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38

Fagatogo? I'm not even leaving!


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:52 AM
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39

Let me emphasize that I worried for a while before posting 38. Probably not long enough, though.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:53 AM
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40

Don't date anyone from West Virginia. They're perfectly aware they're behind the times and really don't care.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 9:32 AM
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41

||

If I'd been asked to place a bet on whether this article appeared on The Onion or on FoxNews.com, I'd have bet big and would have lost badly.

|>


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 10:36 AM
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Never patronize prostitutes from New Jersey. They let you in for free, but you have to pay to get out.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 10:45 AM
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Your stereotypes are stale. You need some new ones.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:02 AM
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41 - Fox News is truly special, isn't it?


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:06 AM
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45

I mean, it's actually a genuinely funny headline, if it were a parody.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:09 AM
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46

That headline is ridiculous. Surely the party created some jobs.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:17 AM
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46: Jobs for white people, though?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:19 AM
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41: That's really awesomely bad. What are they thinking?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:22 AM
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47: Dougie instructor?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:23 AM
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50

That didn't make any sense. I'm overtired.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:25 AM
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51

What are they thinking?

That the message will resonate with their core viewers and firm up the brand?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:29 AM
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52

Don't date a Californian without an NDA. This in my mail this morning:


"ABOUT THE WORKSHOP

Increasing Intellectual Property (IP) Awareness among Entrepreneurs, Inventors and Businesses

United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) is developing a web based IP Awareness Assessment Tool that will be available on the USPTO's website. The tool will have cover various aspects of IP including Patents, Trademarks, licensing and International IP. Based on the assessment, a user will be provided training materials and resources to help them in learning about IP. Features of the tools will be discussed.

USPTO employs over 6 thousand Patent Examiners, who examine patent applications on all the inventions, including Engineering, Computer Science and Biotechnology. Biotechnology group itself has over 500 examiners who examine applications in various areas of biotechnology, including Nucleic Acids, Proteins, Gene Therapy, Vaccines, Pharmaceuticals, Transgenic Animals and Plants. Patent Examiner work and How to apply for the USPTO jobs will be discussed.

"


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:30 AM
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50: I'm overtired. drunk.

The day I signed ... I had way too much to drink. It was after 5 p.m. and I signed it (the contracts) and I didn't know what I was signing. My sister had to pick me up.
- NM Mayor on $1M in architectural contracts


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 11:43 AM
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54

53: Forward to the house architect?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 12:22 PM
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55

If you date an elephant, remember that in Alabama the Tuscaloosa.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 12:29 PM
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56

Street fighting again! It must be summer! This time, a tiny little bit more Jason Statham and a tiny bit less Noel Coward!

My adress to the street-drinkers of England:

1. Although blah blah civil rights blah, the parks are basically for children, and the amount of time you have spent on that bench does not confer the rights of a medieval landowner.

2. Please do not mistake the initial politeness of my request to keep your dog on a lead, as clearly signed at the entrance, for reluctance to do anything about your continued failure to do so.

3. If I have already threatened to kill your dog if it comes too near my children, it should not be too much of a surprise if I kick your fucking dog, pretty hard, when it comes too near my children.

4. If you are prepared to swing a dog lead in the manner of a weapon, consider first whether you have a snappy reply to the phrase "I think you get one shot with that fucking dog lead, and then I put you in hospital".

5. In the parlance of improvised weaponry, a "chain" is a heavy motorcycle chain. A dog lead is a fucking dog lead.

6. Cricket is England's national summer sport, and so a man standing about with his nine year old son, with cricket stumps in the ground and a cricket ball in his pocket, has pretty much the perfect excuse for having a cricket bat in his hand, and the Metropolitan Police will not be particularly interested in your side of the story if it involves the opposite presupposition.

7. If you were capable of beating me up, then indeed I would be concerned about how this might look in front of my children, however I took this into consideration before making my initial approach. Indeed, this "thinking before acting" thing may explain many of the differences in our lifestyles.

8. Perhaps I do have terrible psychological problems, but so far, there are no tattoos on my neck.

sheesh.


Posted by: derauqsd | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 12:51 PM
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Certainly children harm other children, every single day, much more often the dogs harm children

3. If I have already threatened to kill your dog child if it comes too near my children, it should not be too much of a surprise if I kick your fucking dog child, pretty hard, when it comes too near my children.

Just for perspective.

Perhaps I do have terrible psychological problems

My grandfather always claimed the right to kill anyone who threatened his television. Violence with respect to perceived property rights is so common as to be normal.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:01 PM
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58

really not interested, Bob.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:04 PM
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59

Until dsquared has the guts to actually kill a dog instead of just kicking it, I resolve not to be impressed.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:09 PM
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57: Just for perspective.

I've always meant to ask you, Bob: how many seven year olds could you take in a fight?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:13 PM
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I will not get defensive about my own behavior in public parks, because it appears there is enough defensiveness around already. And of course some of this depends on the specifics of dog and dog-owner, although it is extremely rare that someone with a dangerous dog lets it loose around children.

But as someone with a decade of experience in free range dog parks around small children, and never having seen a child harmed there by a dog, I haven't much difficulty guessing who the asshole is here.

Territoriality is accommodated much more peacefully among dogs, who seem to lack the need to piss on each other.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:14 PM
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PS: do you know who defends their young against perceived threats with violence? Dogs.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:18 PM
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63

Territoriality is accommodated much more peacefully among dogs,

Bob, you usually don't sound crazy talking about dogs. What dsquared described sounds exactly like the sort of dog 'fight' I see all the time -- lots of snarling and snapping and no injuries.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:31 PM
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63:Have you always been this frightened of dogs?

"Fight or flight" is honestly not the safest way to handle an encounter with a loose dog or other potentially dangerous animal.

This is about the social status of dogs, by consensus lower than that of bears or woodchucks, neither of which would be permitted by law to be permanently chained up in a backyard, even in 110 degree weather.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:34 PM
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63:At least you seem to understand that this a problem with competitive owners asserting rights to territory.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:36 PM
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This is about the social status of dogs, by consensus lower than that of bears or woodchucks,

WOODCHUCKS? BEARS, FINE. BUT WOODCHUCKS? WE QUESTION THE VALIDITY OF THIS CONSENSUS.


Posted by: OPINIONATED DOGS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:45 PM
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DO WOODCHUCKS GET TABLE SCRAPS? NO. DO THEY GET BELLY RUBS? NO. DOES ANYONE EVER ASK A WOODCHUCK "WHO'S A BIG BOY? ARE YOU A BIG BOY?" NO.

THIS PRESUMABLY SUPERIOR SOCIAL STATUS ISN'T GETTING THEM MUCH. FRANKLY, WE DON'T BUY IT.


Posted by: OPINIONATED DOGS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:51 PM
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68

Funny story.

My neighborhood does have a large number of dogs permanently exiled to the solitude of the backyard. Their shortage of stimulus and affection does tend to make them hostile to passers-by, which I presume is part of the intent.

One particular older dog barked at us from behind the chain link fence for many months, but after a while it got used to us and would wag, exchange scents etc and eventually we would all look forward to the afternoon social meetings.

The owners apparently noticed, and proceeded to put up another 6-foot redwood fence about two feet inside the chain link fence, at great expense. We now can see olddog's nose in the gaps between the slats and bottom.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 1:53 PM
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69

The owners apparently noticed, and proceeded to put up another 6-foot redwood fence about two feet inside the chain link fence, at great expense.

I ask a genuine question. You sincerely believe this additional 6-foot redwood fence was put up becauase the neighbor's dogs became too friendly with you and your dogs? And not perhaps because the neighbor wanted to look out on a new redwood fence?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:04 PM
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although it is extremely rare that someone with a dangerous dog lets it loose around children.

You know a good way to tell who might be reckless enough to do that? Somebody who isn't willing to keep their dogs under close control in situations where the law requires such control and who get upset when reminded of such laws.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:05 PM
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I don't see how the fact that some people display irresponsibility in their stewardship of dogs (by neglecting them and not letting them have friends) somehow makes it okay for other people to display irresponsibility in their stewardship of dogs (by failing to prevent them, by training and/or leash, from disrupting children's cricket games).


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:06 PM
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56 is quite vague as to details, but on a close reading it appears that the actual streetfighting (as opposed to manly threats, possibly involving a cricket bat?) has advanced from "running away and cowering in front of a bouncer" to "kicking small animals." Next up: punching a defenseless old woman on the shoulder.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:08 PM
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73

66, 67: How much wood can you chuck? Not as much as us! Get back in the corner.


Posted by: Woodchucks | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:10 PM
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72: Baby steps my friend. I am not as young as I used to be; I need a few warm-up matches before the August slapping-homeless-crackheads season kicks off in earnest.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:15 PM
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68: If you're genuinely concerned about conditions in which the neighbor's dogs are kept, you could contact the relevant animal-protection authority. (I mean, even being Texas and all, it must have some sort of government authority with this jurisdiction, right?)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:16 PM
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69:At one point olddog found a way out at a corner, which then was patched with chicken wire.

Yes, the point was to further confine and isolate olddog, and this make him a better guard dog, hostile to all comers.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:23 PM
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77

So, are we going to talk about Obama's Downgrade? I don't see any way this isn't an enormous black eye for him, politically. Even though that's obviously unfair.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:24 PM
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78

Dogs are frightening. Fuck off, Bob.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:26 PM
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75:And I have done so. The law doesn't really recognize isolation and deprivation of stimulus or affection as abuse.

And we know to what degree abuse of dogs and children is tolerated under conceptions of property rights.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:27 PM
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Don't date anyone from California. Even if they seem normal they have to get approval from their crazy, cheap teetotalling roommate before they ever pay for a drink.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:30 PM
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78:Dogs don't frighten me, and I have encountered fighting pits loose on the street.

People are terrifying, aggressive and cruel, lacking empathy and social skills.

People won't like the comparison, but encountering a strange dog is not so dissimilar from encountering a young black or hispanic male on the sidewalk. Your attitude going in goes a long way toward creating the terms of encounter.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:36 PM
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82

77: Downgrade? I missed what, exactly, this refers to?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:36 PM
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83

Rottweiler? She's a dog!


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:38 PM
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84

What about my gentle, playful horse? Can he roam free in the town center?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:38 PM
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85

82: downgrade of US AAA credit rating.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:38 PM
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86

encountering a strange dog is not so dissimilar from encountering a young black or hispanic male on the sidewalk

"People won't like the comparison" may be putting things too mildly, I'd say.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:40 PM
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84:Oh, I never said the guy was smart to let his dog off leash. I did say I wasn't going to defensive about my behavior in parks with my dogs.

Parents are fucking stupid, scarey, and dangerous, and proud of it.

Dog-owners must be careful.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:41 PM
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85: Wouldn't that be on the NYT front page?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:42 PM
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89

Or CNN.com?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:43 PM
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90

85: Huh. S&P's going to do it? Or have they already?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:43 PM
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90: Some say they will.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:44 PM
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91: Other say they won't.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:44 PM
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89: Google's showing me stories saying that S&P is expected to -- I thought Urple might have literally just heard it broadcast. And some Chinese rating agency has already, but I doubt that's terribly important.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:45 PM
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S&P is one out of three. Most uhh buyers of treasuries require another one of the agencies (Moodys or Fitch) before they have to divest, and even then boards can override the rules fairly quickly


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:46 PM
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88: It hasn't happened yet. Although these stories are all over.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:46 PM
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And we now know who you have to blow to get taken seriously in this county.

"Great act, what do you call yourselves?"
"The Aristocrats Ratings Agencies"


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:48 PM
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94: Right, I think in the "real" world it means little and reflects worse on S&P than on Obama. But, as a purely political matter, I'd say it's a catastrophe for Obama.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:48 PM
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97: You think? With no real world effects, I don't think it means anything at all to anyone who isn't politically engaged enough to know it doesn't mean much.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:50 PM
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99

If it's impossible to raise taxes here to a reasonable level, we should definitely be downgraded.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:51 PM
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100

This from Tim Duy, Fed watcher, is very good on bonds and austerity.

Stocks erased losses after Reuters said the European Central Bank is pressuring Italy to make further reforms in return for buying Italian and Spanish bonds. Italy's government will announce plans to speed up state-asset sales, liberalize the labor market and introduce a balanced-budget amendment into the country's constitution, Sky TG24 reported today, citing unidentified officials.

A US rating downgrade is a lock, in my opinion. How far the world economy goes down, and where the hot money goes, and what happens to the banks insolvent everywhere (BofA and Citibank and Societe Generale are on life support.) is another question. Obama will not get TARP II


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:53 PM
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98:It's called debt deflation. The cycle of austerity cannot really end in anything but catastrophe.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:55 PM
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102

According to the GOP, the problem is that the Democrats raise taxes.

The debt ceiling deal can be repealed can't it? If so, it should be done in the most humiliating way possible.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:56 PM
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103

That should say "won't raise taxes." Maybe the html ate the "won't".


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 2:57 PM
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104

With no real world effects, I don't think it means anything at all to anyone who isn't politically engaged enough to know it doesn't mean much.

You don't think some politically eloquent variation of "when Obama took office, US treasuries were considered the safest investment in the world. We'd had a AAA rating since ratings agencies were formed, and that rating had never even been so much as questioned. Yet after a few years of his irresponsible spending sprees and unprecedented deficits, we lost our AAA rating with S&P. We were downgraded, because S&P is worried about our ability to pay back Obama's debts" would be an effective political attack?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:01 PM
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98:No "real world effects?" Krugman and our econ friends are beyond panic. When Krugman talks about "bond vigilantes" he is descriptive not prescriptive. Whether or not 5 year rates should be at 2.4 is not his question. They shouldn't be, the US should be borrowing trillions at that rate, for various reasons.

I don't know if the bond guys can find any better place for their trillions though. The rest of the developed world is approaching competitive devaluation.

Austerity reduces output and increases deficits. Bond-traders, seeing that, are completely valid in demanding better return on risk, which increases deficits which inspires more austerity.

Debt deflation spiral.

99 sums it up, though.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:06 PM
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106

No, not really. Or, not a better political attack than any other ad with "Obama [BAD SOUNDING FINANCE GOBBLEDYGOOK]." It's not the kind of ad you'd need anything true to make. Someone with enough knowledge to care what the finance gobbledygook is would know it doesn't mean much, and someone without you could make up anything with long words in it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:07 PM
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107

encountering a strange dog is not so dissimilar from encountering a young black or hispanic male on the sidewalk

Texas, represent! Don't mess with Texas.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:08 PM
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108

[Not arguing, of course, that things aren't generally terrible. Just that this S&P downgrade, if it happens, isn't an important component of the terribleness.]


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:08 PM
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106: I think a hell of a lot more people have a rough sense for what ratings agencies do, and what their ratings mean, and what AAA means, than have any idea why losing a AAA (from one ratings agency) might not be the end of the world. And I think, to most of those people, any attempt to explain why losing a AAA (from one ratings agency) might not be the end of the world is mostly going to sound like pathetic excuse-making.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:12 PM
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Maybe. I don't think so, but (that is, I don't think there's a class of people who (a) are confused enough not to know why this isn't itself a big deal but (b) are on the ball enough that they couldn't have been equally impressed by a fact-free ad with financial nonsense in it as with an ad truthfully saying we got downgraded) I could be wrong, I certainly am often enough.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:18 PM
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108:LB, like I said, nobody actually knows what will happen if Moodys or Fitch follow S&P.

The fear, I think, is another '08 Financial crash, based on a "credit event" triggering derivative buybacks. Or sumpin.

The talk of the trillion-dollar coins is very serious.

But we are not and never have been in a liquidity crisis.

The Financial system is insolvent.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:18 PM
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105: bless your heart, bob, but you haven't got the brain God gave a herring. When krugman talks about bond vigilantes he is being sarcastic, because there aren't any, which is why t bill rates are still so low.
Also, you know damn all about dogs and why they attack people. Just saying.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:23 PM
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I would assume that people will be swayed more by the conditions that lead to and the consequences that follow a downgrade than by the downgrade itself. That doesn't make the downgrade unimportant, just means that there will be lots of other things to focus on that don't really require knowing what the ratings agencies do.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:29 PM
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There is pretty much zero chance of S&P taking a flyer on downgrading if the other agencies aren't doing the same. If it happens, however, one likely cited official reason would apparently be Republican refusal to consider tax increases in any form as part of (any) deal.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:32 PM
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112:Bullshit. Krugman is describing what is, not what should be.

I am actually not sure what he thinks of trillions of dollars flowing into short term treasuries at an effective loss, and I honestly think less of him for not dealing with this problem

Because, if we followed Krugman or DeLong's advice and borrowed say a quadrillion at 3%, and rates did not rise...I don't know. Do You?

The extremely low US treasury rates are not a fucking good thing. It is a leading indicator of global depression.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:33 PM
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although it is extremely rare that someone with a dangerous dog lets it loose around children.

Someone hasn't spent much time in British parks.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:34 PM
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Okay, speculative hat on.

I think Catfood Commission II will enable the raising of net taxes, and I think the cost Obama and Democrats pay will be horrific.

Take seriously all the talk about "tax reform" Obama does not want to let the Bush tax cut expire, and is intent on finding a deal with the Republicans to let them quietly disappear into a grand restructuring of the tax code. They will demand a very high price, both in increased regressivity and in accompanying social spending cuts.

This will happen in the next 6-9 months, and will probably be propelled by a US credit downgrade.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 3:40 PM
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115: Maybe someone should do some theoretical thinking on the likely consequences of a world in which returns to capital are diminishing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 4:23 PM
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Someone's dog ate Obama's credit rating? What?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 4:50 PM
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Ezra Klein is part of the "Whee Free Money What Could Go Wrong" brigade. And generally full of shit

...yields on 10-year Treasuries to 2.4 percent -- that's almost nothing -- and demonstrating that American debt is still considered the safest bet in the world. That vote of confidence under real world conditions is far more important than anything S&P says.

No, Ezra it is called "safe haven" and it means investors have nowhere else to go. And a "vote of no confidence" in the rest of the world is very bad news.
Brazil looks pretty good, why aren't they seeing the US market and printing up billions in bonds, trying to get some of our action?

We are now in Phase II. III? Who can count the hostages. Like a sword of Damocles, we now have a second agency downgrade hanging over our heads as we move into the SuperCongress negotiations.

After that hack-and-slash...we will get the downgrade.

I have heard tell the the downgrade will cost us $100 billion a year. Do-able except...well damn surprise...that will put us over the debt ceiling deal by summer 2012. Not counting the fiscal costs of the double dip.

Who knows if Obama knows what is dealing with. We know he will pretend he doesn't.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 4:52 PM
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I see that the thread has moved on, but I wish to express quiet admiration for 72, in that it made me genuinely, sincerely, and uncomplicatedly burst out laughing.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 4:52 PM
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Someone's dog ate S&P's homework.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 4:53 PM
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107: Texas, represent! Don't mess with Texas.

I've become curiously fascinated by Rick Perry's likely presidential run: his Prayer Day, or whatever it's called, is tomorrow, I believe. The man appears to be a freak, and I'll be interested to hear what comes of Prayer Day and how Perry's eventual polling (once he actually announces his candidacy) pans out.

Uh, just saying.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:02 PM
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123: Rick Perry is really only a freak in the sense that movement conservatism has been freakish for the last forty years. He's certainly no more freakish than Dubya was, and every bit as callous, and very probably smarter.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:13 PM
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He got worse grades at Texas A&M than Dubya got at Yale, though.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:20 PM
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124: We'll have to see on the smarter bit. He sounds like an idiot, and I don't mean his accent, though there is that (sorry, heavily-accented Texans).

Until we hear more from him, I don't feel the need to prognosticate in any dedicated way, but dude: he sounds, accent-wise, exactly like George W. And he's babbling about how we need God's help in this time of 'wayward moral relativism.' That last just sounds to me like a throwback to rhetoric that played well 10 years ago: people really aren't worrying about that stuff so much these days!

I don't know. Maybe he'll get some good handlers, and is sharp enough to modify and master a more contemporary message. We'll see.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:24 PM
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125: Apparently he was also a cheerleader ("yell" leader).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:26 PM
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Assuming that Perry is Dubster II: Dub Harder, who would be his Cheney and Rove? Please don't say Cheney and Rove.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:27 PM
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S.&P. Holds Off on Downgrading U.S. After Treasury Finds Math Error


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:28 PM
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Says the NYT.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:28 PM
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I'm not sure how to interpret that headline, but every possible interpretation is funny.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:29 PM
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But I think he's toast. After a bunch of fanfare and hoopla once he announces, and then concerned brow-furrowing and poll-taking. The guy just doesn't come across well -- by which I mean seriously -- at all, from the admittedly little of him I've seen, and he can't hide behind news stories about his job-creating abilities for very long without showing his trademark cufflinks and opening his mouth.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:30 PM
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According to 538, reuters is reporting that S&P downgraded the US even after fixing their math error.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:31 PM
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Some tidbits from "The Response" FAQ:

What should I bring?

The Response is encouraging people to fast during the event, however if you do need food or drink there will be limited food vendors and water for sale. The stadium does not allow outside food or drink to be brought in. Bring a Bible and a notebook.

I like these two back-to-back sentences* (emphasis added):

According to the Bible, the answer to a nation in such crisis is to gather in humility and repentance and ask God to intervene. The Response will be a historic gathering of people from across the nation to pray and fast for America.

*Of course this conjunction is a common trope in the rhetoric evangelical Christian hucksterism.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:33 PM
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Reuters web site differs, so I'm stopping using twitter for news.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:34 PM
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133 is right. 135 is wrong.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:36 PM
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One part of me thinks S&P should be taken over and it's leaders jailed and held in military prison. They are certainly a far greater threat to the future safety of my children than 99% of the "terrorists" detained over the last decade.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:43 PM
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126: He sounds like an idiot

He sounds a lot like Dubya sounded, except without the tendency to wander off on tangents, become easily confused or tangle himself in a thicket of malapropisms. In other words, a Texan candidate that you can vote for unashamedly, who actually looks like he has higher brain functions but isn't so eggheaded as to run afoul of the movement's Intellectual Detectors. I think the notion that he's shot the moment he opens his mouth is exactly wrong, a hundred percent wrong. The one who was shot the moment he opened his mouth was Mitt Romney. Perry knows precisely what he's doing.

he sounds, accent-wise, exactly like George W. And he's babbling about how we need God's help in this time of 'wayward moral relativism.' That last just sounds to me like a throwback to rhetoric that played well 10 years ago: people really aren't worrying about that stuff so much these days!

Aren't they? You sure? Because I'm pretty sure the final epitaph for the traditional Movement Conservative Philharmonic Dog-Whistle Orchestra hasn't been written by a long shot.

A big part of the US' problem isn't just that movement conservatism is crazy, although it is. It's also that US liberals seem to live in this numb hope that this election, this time out, all the crazies will go away, and crazy people won't have a chance at winning the election. And this frequently leads to complacency. That's a huge, huge mistake in Perry's case. I can't say that enough.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:45 PM
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Yahoo (Reuters) says done down to AA+


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 5:45 PM
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The US is still a long way from the won't-need-the-wonder-bra-if-it-were-a-cup-size ratings you see for the mortgage bonds that were downgraded.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:00 PM
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139: Yep, the smart money's going to Manx bonds.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:00 PM
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138: You sure?

No. I'm not sure of any of it. I'm waiting to see.

It's also that US liberals seem to live in this numb hope that this election, this time out, all the crazies will go away, and crazy people won't have a chance at winning the election. And this frequently leads to complacency.

Dear sir, please don't put me in the complacent camp. I find this mildly insulting. I don't remotely think that the crazies will go away.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:02 PM
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142: I duly remove you from the complacent camp. I intended no offense.

I will admit, however, that I'm very disheartened to see people looking at a conservative candidate and saying things like along the lines of "talking about God won't work" after the number of times we've seen exactly that work for conservative candidates over the decades.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:12 PM
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Dylan Matthews at WaPo says what? Reminds us that hundreds of other bonds (state, municipal, hospital) are connected to treasuries and had been warned

Felix Salmon is not surprised

And Jane Hamsher has proof, proof I tell ya of corruption at S & P and needs signatures

One man had the power, the sole power to prevent this downgrade. Obama could have vetoed the tax cuts in December and given us $4 Trillion in revenue over ten years.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:12 PM
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Not to worry, this is just a long overdue correction for grade inflation.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:12 PM
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143.2: I duly note your disheartened state, and am taking it under advisement. (Really, I am.) I never intended to suppose that Perry is an un-possible candidate; just that he's not just talking about God, you know. He's convening a fucking Prayer Day in a football stadium seating 18,000 people (something like that, I think). That's a whole 'nother level, isn't it? It seems to me that it really is.

I still don't dismiss it, no: probably most of America doesn't even know about this fucking Prayer Day thing, and will scarcely register it once Perry gets on the campaign trail.

As I said, we'll see. Thanks for taking me off the complacent list, by the way. I wouldn't want to actually fight with you.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:23 PM
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I'll take that free spot on the complacent list. Unless there are meetings that I'd have to attend.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:24 PM
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146: No fighting for us! As for 146.1, I'm not sure that it's "another level" per se, just a progression from existing concepts like the National Day of Prayer and the National Prayer Breakfast.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:25 PM
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147: I'd fight you for it, except that by merely suggesting a fight, you win.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:29 PM
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I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.


Posted by: OPINIONATED ZAPP BRANNIGAN | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:30 PM
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148: just a progression from existing concepts like the National Day of Prayer and the National Prayer Breakfast.

It's almost like they're taking the gloves off! That is, the Prayer Breakfast -- is that National? -- is kind of under the radar, I thought, at least as far as the general public is concerned.

Hrm. Well. If I may be so bold as to state a strong opinion: fuck that shit.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:33 PM
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As long as I'm being serious and concerned:

I'll take that free spot on the complacent list.

You kid, but our biggest problem in 2012 is going to be voter apathy, or complacency, or downright disaffection, a la von Wafer's dad (who, as I recall, was so disgusted with Obama that he'd rather lose the election, or something).


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:41 PM
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151: The National Prayer Breakfast isn't under the radar. It also isn't new.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:41 PM
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It's kind of like Guam. Nobody thinks of it very often but they know it is there.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:42 PM
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I don't think the Prayer Breakfast or National Day of Prayer are particularly under the radar, though what exactly goes on at them might be. The latter is well known enough that there's an "International Day of Slayer" event spoofing it.

The thing about these events is that they're a great twofer for the conservatives. One, they serve as a great stump from which to trumpet one's own family-mindedness and traditionality, and are thus a solid political tool from year to year. Two, if they draw attacks from across the political aisle, so much the better: that becomes a great way to deepen the siege mentality on which the religious right functions.

Who knows? Maybe the right response would be a "Progressive Day of Prayer." One of the signal difficulties that progressives have faced is how to connect more firmly with the non-crazy wings of Christianity and other religions.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:43 PM
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S & P statement, via TPM

"On Monday, we will issue separate releases concerning affected ratings in the funds, government-related entities, financial institutions, insurance, public finance, and structured finance sectors."

This is what's gonna hurt.

The buck stops at Obama. He shoulda found a way to not surrender to terrorists, up to civil war or martial law.
But this is what he wanted, I think.

Still wondering who makes money from this, besides the shorts.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:43 PM
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Progressive Day of Prayer

That sounds like an event where everybody goes to a series of churches and gets just a single course of prayer at each.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:44 PM
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152: I know. I was ruminating on that this afternoon; it is common to cite the Supreme Court (and, less often than one would expect, other judicial appointments) as the last-ditch reason not to give up on Obama, but that isn't a very emotional reason to vote for him, compared to 2008, and it is certainly not much of a reason to donate money or pass out flyers or argue with one's Fox-watching friends and relatives. Who will move the believers, if they have nothing to believe?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:46 PM
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157: Actually that's not a bad idea. An annual Church Crawl.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:52 PM
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159: I think some churches do something like that at Easter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:53 PM
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I can't believe I have to say this, but that isn't how the stations of the cross work.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:54 PM
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No, at Easter, celebrating.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:55 PM
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Get thee behind me, Unitarian.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 6:59 PM
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155: Maybe the right response would be a "Progressive Day of Prayer."

I'm against it. Days of Prayer have to do with the idea that, good gosh, we are helpless to help ourselves, government can't possibly do a thing, we'd better pray! Stupid idea. It's just a move to the right.

I suppose progressives could pray amongst themselves for the wherewithal to get our collective shit together and do some things. Actively, like. Besides praying.

One of the signal difficulties that progressives have faced is how to connect more firmly with the non-crazy wings of Christianity and other religions.

Agreed there.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:02 PM
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I suppose progressives could pray amongst themselves for the wherewithal to get our collective shit together and do some things.

That's why people have prayer breakfasts, as opposed to a day of prayer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:11 PM
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That's why people have prayer breakfasts, as opposed to a day of prayer.

That was before Christian energy drinks.*

* Seriously. Just Google it.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:16 PM
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I don't have an internet connection.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:20 PM
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I like the Indian custom (which I think is post-Independence) of inviting friends from other religions to observe one's own festivals. It seems to reflect the right spirit.

105 et seq: When Krugman and DeLong talk about "bond vigilantes", they are indeed being sarcastic. Regardless of why people were willing to lend money to the US government at such low rates, it would have been a good idea to take them up on it and repair neglected infrastructure. (As, indeed, Krugman, DeLong, and many others have been saying.) The downgrade by S&P should have no weight with any even vaguely sane and well-informed observer, but I've done too much financial consulting* to think that "vaguely sane and well-informed" counts for much with financial markets, so we'll have to wait and see.

*: I like to think they didn't get much for their money.


Posted by: Cosma Shalizi | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:25 PM
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Dogs are old news. I'm getting cephalopod.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:25 PM
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Anyway, it looks like there is only one brand.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:26 PM
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And after that, I'd like to buy a vowel. An "a", please.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:26 PM
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Vona Wafer?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:27 PM
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158: I don't have anything much to offer. I'm motivated by utter alarm at the prospect of a Republican Presidency, or Senate, or both. But that was a good part of the message in 2008 -- not all of it -- and Republican messaging right now has a fairly complete grip on the mainstream media, such that the GOP, in the form of extreme fiscal conservatism, is apparently not looking as horrible as it did then.

Obama has some good, actually positive proposals on the table: an infrastructure bank, say.

Strange days.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:30 PM
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||

Holy crap but certain sectors of the used book business are dog-eat-dog at this time of year! It's amusing when it's not exhausting.

|>


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 7:48 PM
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Back to school or some other reason?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:38 PM
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Boy. Every day there are new entities to hate and new reasons to want to just lie on my back and gibber, hatefully. An ever-expanding cornucopia of delights! Hate, hate, hate.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 8:44 PM
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169: Maybe you already have one.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 9:09 PM
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Cosma, how do you manage to read as many books as you do and write as many papers as you do and argue with the Popperazzi at Crooked Timber? It's like you have more hours in a day.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 9:28 PM
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47: Dougie instructor?

Too late. Those jobs have already been outsourced to China.

(I know it's late, but it's too perfect....)


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 9:56 PM
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My belief is he is legion. The techniques to maintain this stat was first worked out by Jacob Bernoulli.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 9:59 PM
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180 to 179, of course.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 10:00 PM
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179 s/b 178.
I really should have gone to be eight hours ago.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 10:02 PM
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Days of Prayer have to do with the idea that, good gosh, we are helpless to help ourselves, government can't possibly do a thing, we'd better pray!

Exactly. The theory is that without God's help people are helpless. I know plenty of people who act on these beliefs.

Stupid idea. They disagree.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 10:18 PM
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be s/b bed
If I make enough comments do the errors average out?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 5-11 10:31 PM
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164: I'm against it. Days of Prayer have to do with the idea that, good gosh, we are helpless to help ourselves, government can't possibly do a thing, we'd better pray! Stupid idea. It's just a move to the right.

I'm afraid I have to say that seems based on a rather limited idea of what "prayer" means. "Prayer" doesn't have to involve the idea that government can't do anything, nor abrogate the idea that the Lord helps those who help themselves. Ceding prayer as an entire concept to the right is effectively a move to the right. The right has proved it, over and over and over and over and over again, for decades.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 12:07 AM
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You should never date somebody from Belgium. They are in two minds about just about everything.


Posted by: Guido Nius | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 3:13 AM
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Belgium? I haven't even kissed him!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 4:30 AM
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185 is essentially correct. The civil rights movement had lots of praying and it certainly wasn't a move to the right.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 4:43 AM
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187: He's a she.


Posted by: Guido Nius | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 4:53 AM
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Listen to Professor Shalizi. He is wise. Moody and Fitch are currently telling Average and Crap to go fuck themselves. China is spinning like crazy for their own advantage, but the other major Pacific economies are rallying round. Europe is too fucked to notice at the moment but they will certainly rally round too, because they have no choice. The 2 trillion "error" is still in play.

Enjoy your weekends, this isn't the one the world ends.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 5:16 AM
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190:Messenger shot graveyard whistled past

Who Would Listen ...representative from Agonist

You guys are reacting in "shoot the messenger" mode. Standard and Poors are doing their job. If people (collectively) are not willing to be told bad news, then they will be blindsided by events. People end up saying "why us" when the answer was available.

The key quote from the report, I believe, is the following..

"More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011."

The rest is detail. The sentence above, I believe, is structural.

How you fix it is your call. As is whether you fix it at all. But don't expect non-US investors to be patient forever. S&P's reports are primarily a service to outsiders, you may remember, and in the case of ratings of US sovereign debt, attempts to evaluate the safety of an investment in US debt (ie economic and political process) vs alternatives.

Fucking liberals think they have sympathetic magic or sumpin, thinking that if they call Republican psych scum by their true names they will vaporize or melt

Not counting how the smaller more vulnerable entities like states and munis will be affected...

Fact is, this will be an excuse to slash the safety net in the next few months and beyond, thereby crashing the economy and excusing more cuts. They also have a permanent condition to never restore the programs.

Watcha gonna do?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 5:34 AM
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|?

The Case for Going Global at Barry Rittholz place

Today's financial markets need a concentration of assets that's characterized by significant emphasis on creditor nations versus debtor nations. At the same time, investors who don't want to get left far behind would be wise to fill their portfolios with companies I call the "glocals," or big multinational firms with strong "fortress" balance sheets, experienced managers, and globally recognized brands. Technology, connectivity, and indirect resource plays all come to mind here, as do dividends, which help offset the risks we take as a part of the investing process.

Most of the liberal analysis, "S & P is stupid and corrupt" has been worthless. I. don't. care.

As always, the question is:"Cui bono?"

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 5:54 AM
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You guys are reacting in "shoot the messenger" mode. Standard and Poors are doing their job.

Sure, but their recent record indicates that they're comically bad at their job.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 5:56 AM
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I procrastinate a lot. (For instance, I really should be debugging now.)


Posted by: Cosma Shalizi | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 6:00 AM
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S&P are doing what they do. We're not whistling past the graveyard. We're in the graveyard and have been since Reagan and Thatcher used the collapse of the Communist bloc to try and persuade everybody that capitalism on their terms was now the only game in town, and got away with it.

As a matter of fact, events around the world over the last few years have made me more optimistic than I've been in decades that the working class will get the initiative back. But that will take time, because we're starting from a very long way back. The burning question immediately is how best to buy that time, and I don't think screaming incoherently from the rooftops features.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 6:33 AM
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191: Fucking liberals think they have sympathetic magic or sumpin, thinking that if they call Republican psych scum by their true names they will vaporize or melt

So, apparently that tactic only works against fucking liberals?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 6:53 AM
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Actually, this seems to be a point fucking liberals have in common with S&P:

We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 7:01 AM
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|?

Somebody I like

Bill Mitchell on safe haven assets

Bill Mitchell on the "totally confected crisis"

(I am taking seriously Newberry's analysis, if I may presume, that MMT (sovereign and reserve currency) is an artifact and funding mechanism for Empire. But Empire isn't going away)

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Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 7:57 AM
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191: Fucking liberals think they have sympathetic magic or sumpin, thinking that if they call Republican psych scum by their true names they will vaporize or melt

Call me an Enlightenment sentimentalist, but believe this. It's the Rumplestiltskin Theory of Journalism - if we could get the media to call things what they are, the world would be a better place.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 9:17 AM
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MUAD'DIB!


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 9:30 AM
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Are fucking liberals the same as procedural liberals?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 9:46 AM
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If you start with a procedural liberal, ask them out, buy them flowers, and then on the third date invite them up for a nightcap, then you'll probably get a fucking liberal. They just want things done properly.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 9:50 AM
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||

(Putting this in pause/play mode 'cause I'm replying to it so late.)

175: Yeah, back to school. There's a narrow window of opportunity to sell stuff that just doesn't sell to anyone besides students at the beginning of each semester, so those of us selling that material need to sell it now, which results in some rather silly pricing shenanigans. There are a couple of people who keep underpricing us by one penny, or 7 cents or something; suddenly we aren't selling that thing for 2 or 3 days, I check, and yep, there he is, so-and-so seller again, being funny with his $43.93 price or her $137.99 price.

Sorry to go on, though: I'm working today so it's on my mind.

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Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 9:53 AM
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201: How else could one ensure proper consent?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 9:54 AM
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|| Thing removed from my eye socket is less than benign even. They thought it was a neuroma, but it was really nodular fascitis (which just means I got bonked in the face or had an infection or something and a little knot grew in response -- but they present just like tumors and scare people). |>


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 10:35 AM
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Congratulations on your super-benignity!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 10:36 AM
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Fucking procedural liberals do it like this. (Points to manual).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 11:10 AM
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Robert's Rules of Order? I hardly know her.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 11:21 AM
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185: I'm afraid I have to say that seems based on a rather limited idea of what "prayer" means.

I know that, but sometimes a person just has to say what she really feels, even if she knows intellectually that she's being unfair. Eh -- if progressives want to go ahead and have their own Day of Prayer, they should do so. I won't be there, and basically nobody I know will be there, but that's alright, since it's not all about me, after all.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 11:21 AM
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basically nobody I know will be there

I had the weird experience not long ago of making some comment at a dinner with eight or so other physicists, implicitly assuming none of them were religious, and finding out that at least two of them are actively religious and one sort of semi-religious. It was unexpected, but makes me want to be a little more cautious about inadvertently assuming that just because people agree with me about many things (including politics) they share my worldview in other ways.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 12:08 PM
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Jane Hamsher is doing admirable work on S & P. They have been briefing PIMCO and Bill Gross for months, and PIMCO has been short Treasuries. PIMCO's Mohammed El-Erian, who is a MOTU, is demanding budget cuts. Driving down the US economy, and thus Treasuries? These people are not silly if the PtB pretend to take them seriously.

Oh yeah.

Republicans:"This is Obama's fault."

Democrats:"S & P shows us we must be responsible and raise revenues in addition to cutting spending."

Harry Reid:

The action by S&P reaffirms the need for a balanced approach to deficit reduction that combines spending cuts with revenue-raising measures like closing taxpayer-funded giveaways to billionaires, oil companies and corporate jet owners. This makes the work of the joint committee all the more important, and shows why leaders should appoint members who will approach the committee's work with an open mind - instead of hardliners who have already ruled out the balanced approach that the markets and rating agencies like S&P are demanding.

This is our ally? Fuck Democrats.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 12:12 PM
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210: I don't suppose there's anything to the thought that separation of church and state means that while prayerful events may be initiated and held by various religious organizations, they should not be convened by political ones.

A "progressive day of prayer" makes me squirm in part for this reason, and it's certainly part of the reason I dislike Rick Perry's shindig.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 12:28 PM
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Of course there's no particular reason to think that a Progressive Prayer Day would be convened by an overtly political group.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 12:29 PM
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||

From the dept. of awful puns:

The UK's ambassador to Norway, Jane Owen, who visited the survivors [of a polar bear attack] in hospital in the northern city of Tromso, said they were "all bearing up well".

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Posted by: harry the stiff sod | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 12:31 PM
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214: Really awful. That poor kid (and his family).

I have to suspect that the students and their parents were not well-informed about the dangers of an "untouched wilderness" where the polar bears outnumber the people:

with students told they would "venture into the untouched beauty and wilderness of Svalbard", which is home to about 2,400 people and 3,000 polar bears.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 2:44 PM
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I have to suspect that the students and their parents were not well-informed about the dangers

Still, you'd think at least some of them would have read the His Dark Materials series, and would know that the panserbjørne are no joke.


Posted by: trapnel | Link to this comment | 08- 6-11 6:44 PM
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I miss Knut.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08- 7-11 7:04 AM
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||

Burning shit down.

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Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08- 7-11 7:34 AM
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217: If you're going to be crude about your breakup, at least watch the typos.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08- 7-11 7:49 AM
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214: you think that's an unfortunate pun? Guess which famous public school in the Thames Valley the poor kid went to.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 08- 7-11 11:56 AM
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220: Egad.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08- 7-11 12:19 PM
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221: You're warm.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08- 7-11 12:25 PM
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Harrowing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 7-11 12:30 PM
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223: Hee. I was about to make that joke. I'm not clever enough to fit Rugby in.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08- 7-11 12:39 PM
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Trips to the Arctic are fun, but there's a significant Downside?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08- 8-11 4:13 AM
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