Re: The 64

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http://www.christiancrosses.org/


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 2:17 PM
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"The late Bernard Coffindaffer of Craigsville, W.V., left a legacy of crosses when he died in 1993. He led a one-man crusade that erected 1,864 sets of three crosses in at least 27 states, the District of Columbia, Zambia and the Philippines."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 2:19 PM
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"I promise you tomorrow you will be with me and my Father who is also my cousin in Paradise."


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 2:47 PM
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It's a dismal gesture.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 2:51 PM
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"Coffindaffer" would make a wonderful epithet, especially when uttered by the likes of Yosemitie Sam.


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 4:08 PM
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3: "Give us Barabbas Gonerill"


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 5:38 PM
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Comfortable?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 7:03 PM
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LB is the queen of irony!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 7:22 PM
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There's a blog collecting the best comments from around the Internet? They must get tired of just copying and pasting LB's words every day.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 8:46 PM
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That comment has nothing on "Disco balls".


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09- 2-11 8:54 PM
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Coffindaffer was a bit of a nutcase (which you might have guessed, I suppose). When he proposed putting up the crosses at a particular scenic spot at the confluence of the Kanawha and Ohio Rivers, the editor of the Charleston newspaper published editorials against the idea. Not long after, said editor died. Coffindaffer had the good taste to announce that Jesus had intervened in the dispute.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 5:26 AM
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If I was called Coffindaffer I would live a quiet, normal life and hope nobody noticed. How do you daff a coffin anyway? Is there good money in it?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 5:47 AM
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Coffindaffer had the good taste to announce that Jesus had intervened in the dispute.

Or maybe the Mothman.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 6:11 AM
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Coffindaffer had the good taste to announce that Jesus had intervened in the dispute.

Jesus: The Appalachian Assassin. Tonight on WWE RAW!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 6:16 AM
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Now I want to see the whole of this, Point Man for God about Coffindaffer. And also other stuff by the filmmaker (Jacob Young) like Appalachian Junkumentary.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 6:33 AM
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I'm a sombrero!


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 6:46 AM
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8-10: Preen, preen. I did think that one was cleverish.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 7:26 AM
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I thought my 4 in this thread was cleverish, but now I think either it wasn't funny or it was too obscure.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 7:31 AM
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17: It certainly was. I was jealous.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 8:11 AM
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18: No! Your 4 was good!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 8:11 AM
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Off topic, but I predict that in their responses to this story

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/09/03/311635/man-dies-of-toothache/

libertarians will prove themselves even more vile than usual.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 8:21 AM
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21: Yes, I was thinking the same thing. "Why wasn't his rich uncle talking care of him, huh??? Blather blather "The Black Family" blather gargle splurt."


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 8:24 AM
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18: It was good -- I would have said something, but I got stuck on trying to remember the other thief's name without googling.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 8:31 AM
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23: That's the easy one! (says the woman who was listening to the Matthew Passion yesterday, so it would be easy, wouldn't it?).


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 8:33 AM
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Since this post is sort of about travel, I have a hotel-related question: didn't hotel bathrooms used to have exhaust fans? I distinctly remember them having fans, because, uh, some kids I knew in high school used to try to figure out if said fan would adequately clear the bathroom of smoky odors.

But lately it seems every hotel I stay in has no fan, which is really a pity, because if one is staying in a hotel room with someone else, one doesn't want to inconvenience the roommate's nose. And yet, nature inevitably calls.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:28 AM
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23. I think 4 refers to both of them. It really is great, essear.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:31 AM
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26: It does! I googled and realized that I just never knew the bad thief's name, so I missed that half of the comment.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:33 AM
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25: It's good manners to have a smoke after, if the air is already bad.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:35 AM
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I'm standing in what I think is the line to get my license renewed. If I get out of here in an hour, I won't have to entertain a passing interest in libertarianism.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:37 AM
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29: If there were no licensing process for driving an automobile, I sure as shit wouldn't get behind the wheel, except maybe behind the wheel of a heavily armored Mad Max machine. Driving makes people insane.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:39 AM
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Wow, I should fish for compliments more often. By the way, Stanley, I like the post title.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:41 AM
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Because I like irony, I took the bus here.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:42 AM
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31: You are the best at fishing for compliments.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:45 AM
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25

... didn't hotel bathrooms used to have exhaust fans? ...

I think building codes usually require a fan or a window. I would expect one or the other.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:47 AM
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I want to interpret all the "Omar" graffiti I see from the train in Connecticut as some kind of guerrilla advertising for The Wire.

I don't want to interpret the guy behind me who just shouted into his cell phone "Don't forget: lots of prunes before the wedding! Prunes!"


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:48 AM
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Pixy Stix are the second best! (After you guys, that is.)


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:50 AM
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21: My friend, the one who lost her baby last year is in a very similar position. Infected (not just impacted) wisdom tooth, cheapest option to get it out is $250, which she doesn't have, and she's allergic to the antibiotics approved for that kind of thing. This country is so fucked up.*

*Even better: She's pregnant again (not the choice I would have made, but it got her and her partner out of the slough of despond they'd been stuck in) and she says that white people on the street have been giving her comments of approbation, you know, for like, advancing the white race, which is ironic, since her partner is biracial himself.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:50 AM
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33: Yes, it is always gratifying to compliment the people who need it the most.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:51 AM
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It's probably very complicated to defecate in a wedding gown. Best to start your big day with empty bowels.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:51 AM
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39 to 35.last.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:53 AM
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Messy, sure, but complicated?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:56 AM
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Complicated if you didn't want it to be messy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:58 AM
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Most brides put on a disposable bed pan and tape it under the dress. That's why bridal gowns have full skirts.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:01 AM
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Maryland license plates say "War of 1812" with exploding fireworks. The only thing missing is Francis Scott Key shooting laser beams out of his eyes.


Posted by: YK | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:02 AM
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I feel like someone should make a Bridesmaids reference.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:06 AM
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Should it be someone who saw the movie?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:07 AM
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Yes, and ideally they should be clever.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:10 AM
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Picky.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:15 AM
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I got my license. The government can continue to exist.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:20 AM
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By the way, Stanley, I like the post title.

Thanks. It inspired Thundersnow to show off her new Apple iRoll.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:26 AM
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(Let's explore down) Route 64.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 10:35 AM
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||People in my FB feed are cooking and eating bugs because of a TED talk? Really? Because cattle consume a lot of resources? They can't eat a bean?|>

I have many questions!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 11:15 AM
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Maybe they're Pythagoreans.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 11:21 AM
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53: Essear is on a roll! or Dismas be his lucky day! (sub sub sub Stanley, there, I think).


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 11:32 AM
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52: There was an article in the New Yorker about entomophagy. I actually really like the picture with the raspberry.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 11:36 AM
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If you eat beans, you might become regular, but you won't get the colon sweeping blast that modern brides get from prunes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 1:00 PM
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Essear is on a roll!

However dismayed one may be at the increasing prevalence of entomophagy, and no matter the extent of one's Pythagorean sympathies, I cannot believe that anthropophagy is the answer.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 4:35 PM
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Oh, I don't know. The entomophagy article is rather charming; I am not dismayed.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 4:50 PM
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If it is on a nice roll, it can't be that bad.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 4:52 PM
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OT: I've been flying on Southwest for so long, I hadn't realized how many times I other airlines would ask me about add-on shit.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 6:41 PM
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||

Somehow it never occurred to me when apartment-hunting to check for a reasonable supply of power outlets. This place looks really problematic. Plug 3-prong plugs into ungrounded outlets with an adapter and hope for the best? I guess I'd better find a Radio Shack....

|>


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 8:17 PM
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I used to feel sorry for myself because my house wasn't wired with ethernet cables until I met a man with wiring from 1958.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-11 9:46 PM
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House-hunting, I recently came across a house that had electrics marked "LBIED" - London Borough of Islington Electricity Department, i.e. the installation pre-dated the National Grid, which is saying something as our national grid was created in the 1920s. Pretty gnarly, too - huge clicking meters and a terminal board with a *cast iron* cover.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 3:56 AM
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63. You're going to buy/rent that? Ring the electricity company and they'll have somebody out to do a free replacement within 48 hours. We got into a house where the consumer unit was 30 years old and the guy on the phone nearly had a fit when we reported it.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:15 AM
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You're going to buy/rent that?

No.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:22 AM
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Good choice.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:28 AM
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Everybody wants hundred years old woodwork but when it comes to wiring everybody turns ageist.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:33 AM
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That's because they don't want the hundred year old woodwork to catch fire.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:14 AM
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When I bought my house, the wiring hadn't been updated since (possibly) 1913 or (more likely) the 1920s. Knob and tube with a big marble board and copper wires wrapped around the knobs. It worked fine! I replaced it, though.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:16 AM
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The knob and tube stuff is probably less likely to start a fire than the briefly used aluminum wiring.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:20 AM
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The thing about wiring is that it always works until it doesn't.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:21 AM
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If it is the light at the bottom of my steps, sometimes it works only if you hit the wall about six feet up.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:26 AM
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Oddly, the old wiring apparently wasn't a big deal for the fire insurance. I assumed that updating the wiring would lead to some insurance discount, but nope.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:28 AM
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Don't list "drinking heavily and smoking in bed" as a hobby on the insurance application.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:39 AM
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Ring the electricity company and they'll have somebody out to do a free replacement within 48 hours.

You know why? Because those old clicking meters are fantastically easy to tamper with. Stick a pin into the gears most of the month, rack up a very low but normal usage, and crank up the heat and lights.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:28 AM
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75. In Britain because the electricity companies are responsible for everything until it enters your house, which is defined as the consumer unit. If that goes up and burns down half the street, it's on their insurance, and they don't fuck around with it. Your internal wiring, you're on your own.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:36 AM
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When I worked at the newspaper in Omaha our first office was in an old converted store-front downtown. One afternoon all the lights went out, so the electricians came by the next morning. After they knocked a few holes in the wall here and there, they reported that they didn't see how the old wiring could have possibly been providing electricity to our outlets. It was my contention that it had only been our shared belief that the electricity was working that allowed it to function.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:48 AM
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Your internal wiring, you're on your own.

Well, there are always psychoactive drugs.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:57 AM
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I was just passing through Omaha last week. There is about ten metric fucktons of extra water in western Iowa.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 10:20 AM
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In acre-feet, an area by a height gives you a volume of water. I know how much a ton of water is, but I'm not sure what dimension a 'fuck' conveys.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 11:17 AM
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Time, perhaps.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 11:18 AM
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Fuck means there's an interstate that has been underwater all summer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 11:21 AM
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Water has five dimensions (Areainterstate by volumeton) in Iowa.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 11:28 AM
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84



Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 12:31 PM
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You can't have a metric fuckton. It's a pre-metric multiplier analogous to a kiloton, but going back to the middle ages. 16 tons to 1 fuckton, like ounces to pounds, etc.

(Originally the song went, "You lift one fuckton, what d'you get?/Another day older and deeper in debt", but the radio networks made them change it.)


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 12:58 PM
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I thought "metric" was just another way to indicate that I wasn't using actual units of measure.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 1:45 PM
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84 wasn't me, although I guess that is obvious by the style.

Iowa, please send your many extra metric fucktons of water to Texas. We'll trade jobs and miracles and even give you a championship basketball team for enough fucktons. Think about it, the Des Moines...something. I'm sure Terry would love Des Moines, wunnerful city.

Great weather this week, cooling down although back up to 97 next Sunday, great to walk the dogs in the...desolate denuded deserts that used to be parks.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 3:52 PM
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No need to get defensive, Moby. I'm sure you saw something interesting about water in Iowa, and I think it is great that you want to tell your friends about it. On the internet, though, there's always someone who will get all technical, ask you hard questions about what you said.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 4:28 PM
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I should maybe be less defensive broadly. Or less touchy. I just told someone to "Fuck Off" after they told me "Don't give yourself a heart attack." Kind of typical, except on reflection, I think it was the guy who just moved in two doors down.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 4:32 PM
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So, what's going on? I've noticed that a great many people I share a country with are batshit bananas, not to mention sort of bad people, and I just can't ignore it any longer. Aside from that,

Hm. Yes, well, aside from that, autumn is coming soon. That'll be good.

I have a bill here from the lawyer for my mom's estate charging me $16 for each time she emailed to ask me whether I had any news about matter X; I reply in the negative, no, no news (+ $16 for her to read that); she emails a week and a half later to enquire whether there's an update yet (+ $16); I reply that No, goddammit, there is not yet and I will let you know, as I said before (+ $16 for her to read that). Then + a certain amount of dollars for her to bring her superior up to date on these non-events.

Seriously?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 4:52 PM
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OMG, The Human Centipede is on tv. Do I watch it???


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:05 PM
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92

And it sounds like the lawyer is taking the piss.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:06 PM
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Somebody didn't let me pedestrian on my merry way, so I gestured vividly (not obscenely). I think maybe the guy I gestured at was the father of the guy who told me to calm down.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:09 PM
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On the lawyer fees, if you are paying a retainer that seems well out of line. Not that I have any specific knowledge of lawyer billing practices.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:13 PM
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91: I wouldn't. I really regret some movies I have seen. I can hardly watch gore anymore.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:16 PM
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92: "taking the piss" means, erm, being an idiot? Or having me on? I think they do mean this bill.

The very good news is that my brother, with whom I spoke at length recently on the occasion of my birthday (! a mere few days ago), had occasion to find a lawyer in his own town who seems to have her head on straight, and I think we can have her organization deal with these last few technical details. I've had enough of the pestering, bilking firm, which is quite competent, to be sure, but manages to render every affixation of a post-it note to a piece of paper a matter for another $16 charge.

I'm deeply relieved that my brother has done this, to be honest. I'd been more or less on my own.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:19 PM
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I forgot to call my brother a few days ago on the occasion of his birthday. I should send a card.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:25 PM
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You should call him.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:28 PM
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I can give you a basic introductory script if you need it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:30 PM
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You can always dispute lawyer bills, and there's nothing they can do about it. "I'm not paying you for that" is a fine answer. Although, $16 isn't much and that doesn't sound unreasonable on its face; if she's billing in the standard 1/10 of an hour minimum increments, that means that she spent under 6 minutes on each of these tasks, which isn't unreasonable, at a rate of $160/hr, which is cheap.

OTOH this kind of story is why I eventually think hourly billing will be largely abandoned by lawyers, and, increasingly, is being abandoned. Presumably, you would have been OK paying a fixed amount for the actual work that had to be done, even a relatively expensive amount, but being charged $16 for a checking-in email is infuriating and makes you feel like the firm is bilking you.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:31 PM
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98, 99: I've called since, but he has been busy. We're not estranged or anything. I just saw him the week before.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:37 PM
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100.2: Yes. Exactly.

To this: Although, $16 isn't much and that doesn't sound unreasonable on its face: $16 to write an email, another $16 to read the reply, when the content of both is essentially nothing?

It is true that the hourly rate -- she's the paralegal on the case -- is relatively cheap as legal rates go. I do not appreciate being charged $16 (numerous times) for an exchange which I did not initiate, however. I have asked her before not to do 'work' that I have not requested. She seemed to understand; I can only assume that she's encouraged by her firm to generate some activity for an account that's almost entirely finished up.

It's really not funny. I don't *feel* like the firm is bilking me: it is.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:42 PM
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Yea, sounds like bilking to me. You want me to ask my brother for his opinion when I reach him. He's a lawyer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:46 PM
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My whole family is lawyers. How did I let that happen?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:50 PM
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Well, if you've instructed them not to do work unless absolutely necessary and without your prior consent, and they're initiating work and charging you for it, you shouldn't pay, tout court. And, frankly, it does sound like they're bilking you a bit.

OTOH, if the email really was necessary for something and you hadn't given the instruction, $16 isn't insane -- it's basically the lowest possible charge that they could give for doing actual work, and since they charge by time for doing stuff they need to charge you even for things that don't take up that much time. OTOOH, I probably wouldn't have billed for those emails, even without the instruction not to initiate work. As I say, I think the hourly rate is a dumbass way to structure compensation for everyone involved.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:51 PM
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Taking the piss, in this context, means taking advantage of you. I mean, she could do this every day and charge you $32 every time? That's ridiculous. You've said you'll be in touch when there's news, she doesn't need to be pestering you about it.

And I did turn THC on - it was halfway through. But I turned it off shortly afterwards, pretty boring, they just kept crying. No gore, lots of bandages.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:57 PM
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Speaking of compensation, the bartender has a rail where he keeps the credit cards of people who are not me. Apparently I have an honest face, because it occurs to me that bartenders never concern themselves with how I will pay until I say I'm getting ready to leave.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 5:59 PM
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105: Comity. I've been irritated that I'll have to make a call to engage in what is basically combative discussion. The sooner I'm quit of these people, the better.

My brother and I will eventually have need of further legal work. I don't look forward to being charged absurd rates for the simplest of exchanges, with any firm. So I'll be looking for one that doesn't behave in that manner.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:03 PM
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105.1 -- I would guess that the paralegal was responding to a specific direction to check in with you, and has no authority to decide not to record time actually "worked." That said, I don't think I'd pay it either.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:08 PM
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Pretty much.

In the meantime, I noticed that Halford recently mentioned a girlfriend: that is good news, no? Congratulations, Halford! I hope it's going well.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:22 PM
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Is it good news? Look what happened when ogged got a girlfriend. Good for him, bad for our continued entertainment, and that's all that really matters, right?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:35 PM
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We're never going to get that book on the LAPD.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:40 PM
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One hopes that Halford won't stop commenting altogether, but it's possible. These things happen.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:42 PM
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Oh it's going really great, thanks, and I'm still in need of procrastination enough to come around here, so everyone's a winner.

The book really is now somewhere to the back of the backburner, though -- is that the backsplash? It will have to wait until a period of unemployment. I have a shiny outline though.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:42 PM
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115

I'm an expert at getting unemployed quickly, but not if you need to get unemployed in such a way that you can be rehired by somebody else at a later date.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:46 PM
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It will have to wait until a period of unemployment.

Copyright law strikes again.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 6:53 PM
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114 gives me the impression that Halford doesn't really want to talk about it that much. Fair enough! I'm still pleased for you, sir.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:01 PM
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It's still kind of unbelievable to me that there are people whose time is worth $160/hr. I mean, now that I think about it, the movers I just paid were charging a comparable rate, but they were physically moving a metric shitload of stuff hundreds of miles. That seemed like real work. Lawyers don't seem to be doing work that's realer than mine, and god knows I can't charge anybody $160/hr for anything.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:14 PM
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$160/hour was the paralegal. You could have gotten a degree in that in less time than you spent filling ged ed requirement.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:19 PM
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Really? I mean no one pays me to do anything by the hour, but if someone did want to pay for my services I'd expect to be making over $100/hour. For example, if you were an expert witness you'd charge at least $160/hr.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:20 PM
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The next time someone gets mauled by a Higgs boson I'll keep that in mind.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:22 PM
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Is that the boson that is made up or the one somebody found?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:22 PM
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It is puzzling. And $160/hour is considered cheap.

I imagine if a lawyer is doing work that represents the managing of assets worth a bazillion dollars, such an hourly rate to ensure that the management is done properly makes sense, but that situation wouldn't obtain in the vast majority of cases, so you have to wonder.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:25 PM
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123: Lawyers write-off a shit-ton of hours. Plus the bottom of the totem pole has to pay a portion to the higher ups for haphazard supervision and general abuse.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:28 PM
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120: if someone did want to pay for my services I'd expect to be making over $100/hour.

Unfoggetarian, this means you are deeply out of touch with the rest of the society around you.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:29 PM
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Hrm, though now that I think about it, I wouldn't charge someone more than $350/day for work, which makes $160/hour sound pretty unreasonable for work like ordinary lawyering where you can work all day. If you're a freelancer of some sort then you have to charge more, but for a full time worker it does seem like way too much.

When I was thinking about what I was charging I was thinking for one-off hourish things, not for longterm employment.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:29 PM
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When I have cause to bill for my time, I do so at a rate of either $100/hour or $150/hour, and I'm salaried and don't have to pay to keep the lights on around here. Of course, I don't bill anyone who can't easily afford to pay me, which is not a courtesy that most lawyers extend to even their favorite clients. Still, I'm not sure $160/hour seems that expensive to me. Heck, I think that my sister, who's a shrink, makes that much.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:30 PM
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127 to 125.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:31 PM
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If you're a freelancer of some sort then you have to charge more

You do. Even leaving aside the time you'd have to spend looking for work and making sure you got paid for work and filling out IRS shit, benefits are not cheap. I'd need to make close to twice as I do now to make it worth my while to freelance.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:32 PM
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I think the key thing, since I buried the point in my comment, is that lawyers have to pay to keep their businesses going: rent, utilities, salaries and benefits for staff, etc. All of that wood paneling and those leather chairs don't come cheap, yo.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:33 PM
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It's just a stupid way of billing that seems more outrageous than it is. "Pay me $20,000 to probate your will" doesn't sound that ridiculous, if you have that kind of a will and assets, but "pay me $250/hr to spend 80 hours probating your will" does, even if it's the same amount.

My own hourly rate would shock and outrage you all, but in fact I've been massively more profitable when working on a flat fee or a contingency.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:33 PM
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130: Right. Even more if I had to buy my own chair. My ass has high standards of comfort.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:34 PM
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128: I wouldn't argue with the idea that I'm deeply out of touch with the rest of society around me (or you). I mean, I sort of revel in being out of touch. It's one of the reasons I chose the profession I did.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:34 PM
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Maybe we should have a thread where we all post our genitals income hourly rates.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:35 PM
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Actually paying 20K to probate a will sounds like a huge amount to me. Now I might be wrong, I have no idea how much work goes into it, but it actually sounds *less* reasonable to me than $160/hour.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:35 PM
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133: My point was that I think that's pretty normal rates for an academic doing consulting for pay, and not out of touch at all.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:36 PM
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$20,000 to probate a will also sounds outrageous, unless the estate is in the several millions.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:38 PM
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121: You should consult on a new physics-related sitcom, Boson Buddies,* and then charge at least $160/hr. Just guarantee that it will be more successful than The Big Bang Theory.

*I will charge you for the use of the title. But don't worry, it will be less than what I'll charge if you go into protein folding and make money from medical consulting. Probably.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:39 PM
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20K is 4 times what I've ever spent on one thing in my life (moving into my current apartment). It seems to me like an unreasonable amount to pay for anything other than a downpayment on a house.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:39 PM
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I don't do probate work at all, so this is just off-handed bullshit I heard from talking to someone, but I think the rule of thumb is that probate costs something like 8% of the value of your estate. So, if you have an estate worth $1 million, which seems like a lot but is actually pretty common with house prices and whatnot, you should estimate a probate cost of $80,000.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:40 PM
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I guess I have a couple of acquaintances who do this "consulting" thing but I've never understood what it actually involves.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:40 PM
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136: yeah, I know. And I agree. But I also think I agree that it's a pretty silly amount of money for someone to pay me for my expertise, especially given that I'm salaried (at a public institution, no less!) and don't have to pay the electric bill. This is why I almost always give my time away, unless I have to travel for the work they want done.

On the other hand, the university did take my phone away recently. Budget cuts, I was told, but I think they just got sick of paying for me to call mom.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:40 PM
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Or, for a different perspective, $20,000 would be extremely cheap for a middle-class families' total legal fees for a contested divorce.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:43 PM
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Wouldn't the cost of probate depend on the complexity of the will itself (and the identities of the inheritors) as much as or more than the value of the estate?

Also, let me note that I am drinking brandy out of a crystal goblet. Who says VAPs have it hard? (Slivovitz, but it's still brandy.)


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:44 PM
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143: Seriously? Then why do middle-class families ever contest divorces? Or do we have different definitions of "middle class"?

144.2: What's a VAP?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:45 PM
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So, if you have an estate worth $1 million, which seems like a lot but is actually pretty common with house prices and whatnot, you should estimate a probate cost of $80,000.

Holy crap. That is absurd. And here I was upset that I've paid something like $7,000 to administer an estate worth half that. Less than half that.

Wait, are we talking about the same thing? Are you talking about the probate bond?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:46 PM
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Seriously?

Yes.

Then why do middle-class families ever contest divorces?

Good question.

Or do we have different definitions of "middle class"?

Probably not.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:47 PM
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144.2: What's a VAP?

Visiting Assistant Professor.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:48 PM
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146 -- I think it's total cost of probate, not just legal fees. Again, though, I'm just basing this on a conversation I had with someone.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:48 PM
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Then why do middle-class families ever contest divorces?

In the long run the cost (or benefit) to either party might be far greater than $20K.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:49 PM
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148: Sounds pretty fancy to me. I just get titles like "Associate Research Scholar" or some bullshit like that.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:49 PM
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And all you have to do is research, correct?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:50 PM
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Yes. I am unable to profess or use goblets.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:51 PM
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My impression is that VAP is usually (though not always) a position at a liberal arts college.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:53 PM
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Huh, research scholar and other post-doc-ish titles in the sciences have always sounded ok to me. Not prestigious or fancy, but (once I learned a bit more about how things work in the part of the academic world) normal.

VAP also sounds normal to me, but that's because it's normal to have a one year non-TT position while never really leaving the market because you're going right back into it for the next year. In other words, it sounds kind of tough (but again, not out of the ordinary).


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:54 PM
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My new job might even make me share an office. Life is hard.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:55 PM
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149: I think it's total cost of probate, not just legal fees.

Well, as far as I've been able to tell, having gone through probate for my mom's estate in the last couple of years, there is no cost of probate to speak of beyond the legal fees. You have to float a bond to cover the estimated value of the estate -- it's imaginary money that you get back except for a nominal fee once probate is closed -- and there are various dinky fees for filing paperwork and such which don't add up to much more than a thousand, unless you have a super-duper complicated estate, I suppose.

It's all legal fees.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:56 PM
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Upetgoi(9)'s impression does not accord with my impression.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:56 PM
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Holy crap. That is absurd.

I know. 8% for probate, unless I suppose it is contested.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:57 PM
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"Never really leaving the market" is an almost permanent part of academic life for many people, I think.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:58 PM
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I just get titles like "Associate Research Scholar" or some bullshit like that.

I was once a Research Associate, but then I don't have a Ph.D. Currently, I think I am classified as a programmer, because that was the only way to pay me close to what I wanted to be paid.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 7:58 PM
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Then why do middle-class families ever contest divorces?

Vindictiveness.

(My legal fees, fwiw, were well under $10K -- UNG's lawyer would have had to really gouge him for our divorce to have cost $20K. I've no doubt she did... )


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:03 PM
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160: True, but there's a difference between following a well-established path of post-doc-ing and that sort of thing, testing the waters from relative stability, and the VAP situation which, as I understand it, is not a permanent part of life because if things don't work out down the line, academics won't be a permanent part of life.

There are of course visiting academics who may be VAP somewhere for a year but tenured at their "home" institutions. That's different.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:04 PM
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$10k would be a very nice wedding reception where everybody got too drunk to move.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:05 PM
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I should add that quite a few of the people in my program went VAP to tenure-track after one or two rounds.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:05 PM
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Most people lump legal representation in with medical care as something that only rich people can purchase significant quantities of without going into debt, but it seems like most lawyers actually struggle to make a good living anyway, unlike doctors.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:05 PM
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I'm assuming that the 8% figure includes things like appraisals and accountings which might show up in other places, or possibly averages in circumstances in which the probate is contested.

In any event, I'm not holding fast to the probate example, since it's not mine and I don't really know anything about probate.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:06 PM
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(Slivovitz, but it's still brandy.)

How it that? I've never tried brandy that wasn't made from grapes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:07 PM
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I mean, quite a few of the people I know of (which is actually a small number) who got a VAP position then moved tenure-track somewhere. Some people went straight to TT jobs. Others, like me, went elsewhere before of after finishing.

As far as I could tell when I tried to look it up recently, my program has continued the tradition of not making public much information about placement and attrition rates.

I may be applying for dissertation fellowships this year. Sadly, I think I'm probably much less competitive than before I dropped out, even though I'm much more motivated now and closer to done. I probably should curtail the commenting, as I tried to do last year.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:09 PM
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In math at a research school a postdoc funded by the school is typically called an Ogged Assistant Professor (where Ogged is some random person who was chair of the dept. in the 1920s). If it has outside funding it's called an ABC Postdoctoral Fellowship (where ABC is the funding organization). This leaves VAPs mostly for liberal arts schools. But I guess the "Ogged Assistant Professor" thing is a bit unusual to math. (Though it's administratively useful as they're usually officers, not "postdocs," and so get certain perks.)


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:09 PM
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What does "funded by the school" versus "outside funding" mean? Is funded by a professor's grant considered "outside funding"? Or do things not work that way in math?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:12 PM
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A professor's grant would be outside funding. Most grants in math do not pay enough to fund a postdoc. Larger grants are usually through some big program which has a name. Vigre postdoc, RTG postdoc, Simons postdoc, etc.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:13 PM
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167: From this and other sites, the CA statutory scheme seems to have an "easy" $1,000,000 estate coming out max at $23,000. But it seems to be "gross" estate, so $500K house with a $400K loan counts as $500K. But In probates that are complicated by lawsuits or tax problems, the attorney and executor can ask the judge to approve fees that are higher than those set by state law. And it also appears that the executor can get up to the same fee?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:14 PM
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Couldn't they just make the postdoc teach for part of his or her pay?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:14 PM
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Math postdocs (unlike physics) typically have a teaching components. Nice postdocs are less than 3 semester courses a year, good ones are 3 semester courses a year, so-so ones are 4 semester courses a year, and beyond that is really more an adjunct position in my mind.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:16 PM
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It's funny how different these things are in different fields. Even experimentalists have really different arrangements than I do -- I learned recently that it's pretty normal for Berkeley experimental postdocs to be there for six or seven years.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:16 PM
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176: Is that enough time to find a boson?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:18 PM
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My impression is that in experimental physics there's variation from subfield to subfield on logistical matters like when you apply for postdocs, how long they last, etc.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:18 PM
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Yeah, I only meant experimental high-energy.

177: The last 25 years haven't been enough time, but the next one year or so will be.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:21 PM
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173: I don't know why the judge has to approve fees. As for the executor getting fees, there is that concept: the lawyer for my mom's estate asked me whether I'd paid myself (money out of the estate, I guess) in the course of doing my executrix-like duties.

Erm, what? No. But some estates are executed by a third-party executor, who would charge fees. Don't do this, people. Your children won't thank you for it. Unless you have a super-complicated life arrangement, I suppose.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:23 PM
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Back on-topic, I can recommend against driving through West Virginia in a large sport-utility vehicle work truck when said state is covered in thunderstorms. On the other hand, visiting a high-end, small-batch bourbon distillery in Kentucky earlier in the day was lovely and educational.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:23 PM
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179.2: Wow. It only took 15 years for grown ups to confirm the existence of Mr. Snuffleupagus.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:23 PM
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181: I drove across West Virginia in a 25' truck during a thunderstorm. And when we stopped, all the hotels without dirt-encrusted rooms were full.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:25 PM
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Additionally, don't speed in Virginia on a holiday weekend. I think we saw a total of ten people pulled over this weekend.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:25 PM
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At least the roads in West Virginia are usually nice.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:27 PM
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181: Which one did you visit? I'm ashamed-ish to admit I've never done the bourbon trail, but I've gone to some tastings locally.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:28 PM
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177: The last 25 years haven't been enough time, but the next one year or so will be.

2012 will be the year of bosons on the desktop.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:29 PM
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186: Woodford Reserve.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:29 PM
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187: Everyone needs a boson for a blotter.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:30 PM
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184: Keegan and I drove up to DC this weekend and oh man but they were pulling people left, right, and center.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:33 PM
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||

People are doing this "So, ... " construction just to annoy me, aren't they?

No, probably not.

|>


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:33 PM
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189 was me.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:33 PM
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191: So, I was but I thought I stopped last week or so.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:34 PM
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192 to 193.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:34 PM
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185: At least the roads in West Virginia are usually nice.

Some. Now.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:35 PM
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188: Ah, our friend with the farm/winery used to work there. As far as jobs go, being an engineer at bourbon distilleries probably doesn't net you astonishing hourly rates but it still pretty cool.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:35 PM
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195: I should have allowed that I don't have recent knowledge. Excepting that little bit that you have to drive through to Columbus, I haven't driven it since 2003 or so.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:38 PM
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Rory and I rather liked the drive through WV. Not crazy about the pit stop there at the gas station with the signs about the recent armed robbery and the kid-snatching van to watch out for. But it was quite nice to drive through.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:42 PM
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I was reaching further back. They are much better now in general than when I started driving them 35 years ago. The 3-lane WV Turnpike, for instance.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:43 PM
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196: It was great, and our tour guide (Hi, Cory!) did a great job of contextualizing their particular product within the wider world of distilled spirits. And there was a cat named Elijah.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:43 PM
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180: 173: I don't know why the judge has to approve fees.

To keep the executor from collaborating with the attorney (sometimes the same person) in looting an estate of all the money in it with excessive fees. A very popular pastime with the unscrupulous regardless of the state of kinship with the deceased.

166: but it seems like most lawyers actually struggle to make a good living anyway, unlike doctors.

Most psychologists charge approximately triple (or more) the hourly rate they're shooting for because they only get a third of the amount that they bill. If you charge the low rate, then everyone wants to waste time and not pay. I don't think it's any different for lawyers or regular M.D.s from what I have seen.

max
['High hourly rates are to discourage freeloaders to a certain extent.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:46 PM
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199: Or looking it up, it was originally 2-lanes (I may just be remembering passing lanes on hills. I was in a van that turned over in a snowstorm at 4 AM on the WV Turnpike back in 1976, so I may be biased.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 8:53 PM
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Racism caused the van to flip.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:00 PM
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At least we still stopped the amusement park ghoul, right Stormcrow?


Posted by: Opinionated Velma | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:02 PM
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201.last seems right in my limited experience.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:06 PM
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In Soviet Russia, van flips West Virginia.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:06 PM
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Strangely, the only part of WV I've driven through was the part next to Pittsburgh (<-- h!), and in a big truck that was scary as hell.

I did learn something valuable on that long trip from hell: never drive through Indiana if you like your tires.

max
['Well, this area looks very... say, was that the banjo from Deliverance I just heard?']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:13 PM
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Have sex with your tires just once and Indiana cops will arrest you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:17 PM
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Speaking of WV, we pulled off in Huntington and I ran into a coffeeshop, ordering a regular coffee. When I noticed they had only half and half on the condiments counter, I asked the cashier for skim milk.

She responded, "Sure. You want that...in your coffee?"

Apparently, my gusty bus doesn't go through there much.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:21 PM
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209: Maybe better just to stay in the truck until you get to C'ville.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:22 PM
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||

Turner Classic Movies just fucking astonishes me.

Wanda and The Wild Child set to record

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:29 PM
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Let's be honest, Stanley; that's bizarre.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:49 PM
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Wanting skim milk in your coffee is pretty bizarre. Adding water would probably be better if you're just doing it because the coffee's too hot.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:51 PM
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I *like* my coffee with skim milk, and you guys are like this.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 4-11 9:57 PM
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If we ever invent a time machine, we should send the Army to invade the past to prevent those ads from ever being made.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 5-11 2:17 AM
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215: Or this one in the creative uses of radioactivity category.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 5-11 5:32 AM
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38: Yes, it is always gratifying to compliment the people who need it the most.

In unsuccessfully searching for Heroin Jesus, I stumbled across the brilliant n-b n-sfl-w comment that inspired this cheap shot. ("Praise the qualities of the person you think needs it most." from the sadistic game thread.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 5-11 6:16 AM
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214: Me too, on the skim milk part.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 5-11 7:43 AM
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219

Vaguely on topic.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 7-11 2:52 AM
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