Re: The work of weddings

1

In my experience, nobody involved in the wedding industrial complex is willing to take the groom's word as final on anything.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:24 AM
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yet another area of life where women take on more work that is perceived as less valuable

Didn't someone here propose a law of household division of labor whereby the person who most values a clean household will end up doing the bulk of the housework? I contend that the work of wedding planning is a special case of the same phenomenon.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:26 AM
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I actually went to a wedding that was beautiful, thoughtfully done, non-cliched and pleasant a few weeks ago.

I'd say that maybe 1/50 achieves this goal, and most are just wedding-industrial-complex bullshit (putting aside the occasion itself, of course, which may or may not be great; I'm talking about the pure party planning aspects). So, try harder, ladies.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:30 AM
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2: I think this argument is generally bullshit as applied to housework (as the lazier and untidier member of my household, I don't fail to clean because the cleanliness of the apartment is unimportant to me -- I like it clean -- but because I'm a lazy sack of shit in this regard), but I do buy it for weddings. So much of the stuff people obsess over in even perfectly ordinary weddings is beyond pointless, and anyone spending more time on a decision over invitation design than, "The one on the left looks fine" is doing it to themselves.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:35 AM
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There's very little work involved in a hobo wedding, ladies.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:35 AM
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Banns!


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:36 AM
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My wedding is being pretty much 100% planned by the groom.

(I'm not sure if this counts. We're basically having his and her's weddings, and "mine" isn't for at least another year.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:38 AM
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Then again, it's also really small. Not exactly the six months of work being described by the post.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:39 AM
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We're basically having his and her's weddings

For it to count, I think both of you have to be present for at least one of them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:41 AM
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The division of labor in our wedding prep work was definitely unequal, but yeah, what KR said in 2. We avoided a some of the usual crap, but there were things she wanted just so. Clothing is one area where the pre-existing traditions put a lot more burden on the woman in a straight wedding, though. I was able to order an awesome suit from eBay; she ordered something, had it fail, went and picked something out and then had to do a couple of rounds of measurement/fitting/alteration.

I suppose it's less unbalanced if you count the time I spent making the beer.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:42 AM
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9: I knew we were doing something wrong.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:44 AM
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In a common law country, can't you just go around saying that you are generally known to be married to each other?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:46 AM
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12: I think you both have to act married to each other. If just one person says that a marriage exists, that's probably a stalker.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:48 AM
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12: But women are known to talk 80% more than men. UNFAIR.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:48 AM
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We're basically having his and her's weddings

I love this idea. Each person does whatever the fuck they want. "You take the white flowers and stupid party gifts and engraved invitations, and I'll take the Voltron costume, cask of MD 20/20, and Sig Sauers."


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:50 AM
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13: Would it have helped if I'd written "y'all" to go with "each other"?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:50 AM
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Who perceives the work of wedding planning as less valuable? Also, less valuable than what?

In my case it was perfectly apparent that wedding planning was way too high value to be trusted to the less competent partner. My mother-in-law was fairly adamant that much of the work was too high value to be trusted to anyone other than herself.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:50 AM
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I actually went to a wedding that was beautiful, thoughtfully done, non-cliched and pleasant a few weeks ago.

Many of the weddings I've been to in the last 10 years meet these criteria. This is how I know I have the right friends. And that my extended family isn't close.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:51 AM
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We outsourced ours to my wife's mother because of teh sexism + cowardice keen appreciation of family dynamics.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:51 AM
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On January 1, 2011, I will officiate a wedding for the second time. I've got a lot of catching up to do!

I absolutely agree with 2. The person who cares the most about it tends to do the work.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:52 AM
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Sir Kraab went to our wedding in the last 10 years!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:52 AM
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Each person does whatever the fuck they want.

That's the one area of wedding/marraige planning where cooperation is most critical.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:53 AM
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In a common law country, can't you just go around saying that you are generally known to be married to each other?

But that would be a lie, if you weren't already generally known to be married to each other. And whence would that general knowledge derive?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:54 AM
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15: In our case, it's a result of needing to do them in two different locales. I still think it'll be really fun, though! And I'm very thankful that said groom is doing all the work - he's pretty awesome, it must be said.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:55 AM
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Who perceives the work of wedding planning as less valuable? Also, less valuable than what?

One person wants a small, informal wedding. The other person wants a bunch of frilly, stupid stuff.

If I ever get married again, it will be small and informal. ie Backyard bbq.

I am not going to stress about the color of the invitations. Pick one. Doesnt matter to me.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:55 AM
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15.last is a pretty good argument against the general applicability of 25.last.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:57 AM
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But that would be a lie, if you weren't already generally known to be married to each other. And whence would that general knowledge derive?

Like all general knowledge, Wikipedia.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:57 AM
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21: I didn't want to brag.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:58 AM
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Shall we bitch about wedding showers and baby showers?

Why dont people buy their own freaking stuff!?!?

Just another reason that I am happy to be a guy! Please, please, please keep it so that men are rarely invited to showers!!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:00 AM
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My dad and stepmom accidentally got common-law married. The story is something like, they had an actual wedding with guests and everything, but then they forgot to file the paperwork with the court or whoever. So they were living together, and telling people they were married, and many people had been to the wedding. Then years later one of them found the unsubmitted form(s?). By then, they were legally married anyway, but they hadn't been planning to do it that way.

I find it hilarious that they forgot to get married. It seems like something one would pay close attention to, and think a lot about.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:00 AM
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Like all general knowledge, Wikipedia.

[consummation needed]


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:03 AM
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Why dont people buy their own freaking stuff!?!?

Because if you're just starting out in marriage or parenthood (especially if the former means you're just getting established in your own household), there's a lot of expense involved that is more easily borne by many than by just the people directly involved?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:09 AM
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Also, not to be a little bitch or anything, but the content of the OP seems so obvious as to be trivial.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:10 AM
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32: Expense and in some cases knowledge -- a good baby present is often something the not-yet-parents wouldn't have known to have been useful.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:12 AM
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Mara and I are attending a lesbian wedding this weekend, though Lee decided she wasn't up to seeing how many new neck and/or breast tattoos will be on display there. The couple is registered only at Walmart, for things like soap dishes and toilet paper roll holders, which was what pushed me over the edge into being sort of horrified. I just bought them two pillows and a shower curtain, but I'm not happy about it.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:12 AM
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33: Don't worry, I think most people here know you're tall.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:12 AM
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35: Lee can't look women in the eye either?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:14 AM
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37: Ha! I'm sure I should have phrased that better, but I don't know what her real objections are beyond that one.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:18 AM
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36: It's generally known.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:20 AM
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12. No. At least not in the common law country called England, or presumably the territories that were English colonies in 1753. "Common law marriage" never legally existed.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:22 AM
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It varies by state in the US.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:26 AM
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Probably in cases like in 30, they would still be held to be married.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:36 AM
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36: So funny I forgot to laugh. No, actually, I laughed.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:41 AM
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They were in Montana, which recognizes common-law marriage, so they were legally married by the time they realized. But I think it would be different in other states (although it seems like some have good-faith exceptions that might apply).


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:43 AM
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Because if you're just starting out in marriage or parenthood (especially if the former means you're just getting established in your own household), there's a lot of expense involved that is more easily borne by many than by just the people directly involved?

Some people view dinner like that too.

You just say that bc you are young and hope to benefit from it.



Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:00 PM
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46

neck and breast tattoos? Is this the new thing for lesbians?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:06 PM
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46: Not on a generalized basis, no. It's a race/class thing that there's plenty of in the church we attend, typically their own names or nicknames and their kids' names.

I've never had a shower of any sort, though my coworkers got a basket of things together for Mara and that was fantastic, particularly the bag of socks since her prior foster family didn't send any socks. We got some wonderful hand-me-downs, too, and that was plenty for me. Hearing that "three-year-olds are assholes" from someone here (apo?) was probably the most important part. I should have gotten a "homebuying is hell" or something before finding it out for myself, but that would have taken care of the unfogged housewarming function too.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:17 PM
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I've never had a shower of any sort

Impressive.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:20 PM
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48: Ha! We actually didn't have a shower in the old house for the first two years I lived there, and washing hair in a bathtub was awful. I don't know how I kept myself from going back to buzzing it off except that the relationship was new enough I was probably gently deferring to Lee's preference for longer hair.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:21 PM
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So much of the stuff people obsess over in even perfectly ordinary weddings is beyond pointless

God yes. Marriage has its good points, but weddings are just stupid. Save your money and sanity: get it done at the courthouse and apply the savings toward a decent honeymoon. Planning a wedding together often gets you 1/3 of the way to your divorce right off the bat.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:44 PM
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51

If you have a warrant out for you, that really increases the risk.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:46 PM
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Why does apo hate will?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:46 PM
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47--interesting! a couple summers ago, when staying in Bed-Stuy, I noticed lots of young black women with tattoos of women's names; the first few times my gaydar beeped, but after a few days I started to feel that the hypothesis "90% of young black women around here are queer" might be a dubious one. was I too hasty?


Posted by: (dammit Jim I'm a) lurker | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 12:57 PM
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50: I don't even have anything against weddings -- it's weddings that are out of scale in terms of formality with the rest of your life. Inviting your family and friends to see you get married makes sense, and throwing a party makes sense, and it's going to be an unusually big party, so it's not going to be free. But honestly, if you live the kind of life where you worry about co-ordinating your clothes with the borders on the table linens, you know that already, and it's not a crazy effort for you. If, like 99% of us, you don't live that kind of life, breaking your heart and your wallet over it instead of just throwing a big party seems idiotic to me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:01 PM
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47: Probably? I'd guess it's more likely to be their own names than their partners' names, but it's just a guess. There's what I suspect is an urban legend that pimps have their names tattooed on sex workers' necks as a mark of ownership, but I think it's more common that the tattoo decision (let me tie this back into the marriage discussion!) is a probably misguided tribute to a consensual relationship.

Lee really, really hates the neck tattoos and is bothered by the high number of her students who have them. I am very squeamish about necks being touched and so I find them ill-advised from a fashion and potential employment sense and also absolutely horrifying to think about, but I'm still not as judgmental as she is.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:01 PM
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I think this argument is generally bullshit as applied to housework (as the lazier and untidier member of my household, I don't fail to clean because the cleanliness of the apartment is unimportant to me -- I like it clean -- but because I'm a lazy sack of shit in this regard)

I don't know about this. I care less about cleanliness than most people, and with neatness it's even worse. On the other hand I care a lot about nice food and will place a very big emphasis on spending time to regularly cook decent meals. I also care about eating a home cooked dinner with someone I'm living with. In both of those things I feel that I'd have to work out ground rules in advance before I liven with anyone again. And 'clean up when things are too messy' is not one likely to produce harmony. I need a schedule of cleaning chores and the understanding that that's it.

As for weddings share within reason. Divide up tasks, and if one person is deadset on _far_ more than the other, they do more.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:03 PM
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I don't see how you get a neck tattoo just from the standpoint of having somebody press on your neck for long enough to make a design.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:04 PM
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C'etait moi


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:05 PM
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My wedding was the only party I've ever attended where I didn't feel self-conscious -- not even a little bit. This was despite my wearing a somewhat unconventional outfit and being draped with about 15 pounds of leaves and flowers. I have extracted some psychological insight about myself from that experience.


Posted by: Knecht | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:08 PM
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Non, c'etait Moby.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:08 PM
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Everybody is speaking some kind of near-Mexican now.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:14 PM
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56: Well, I said generally true, not universally true. I'm guessing that there are more people like me, who like a clean domicile but would rather not do the cleaning themselves, then there are untidy/unclean people who are genuinely happy with living in the conditions their cleaning habits produce. (And of course there are endless intermediate possibilities, where you have someone, e.g, who wants a tidy domicile where the bathrooms are cleaned and the floors vacuumed, and doesn't pull their weight in that regard, but really doesn't care about whether the baseboards are dusted.)

But, yeah, where there's a genuine significant mismatch as to the conditions the members of a couple want to live in, that's not so much bad behavior on the less-clean person's part as it is something the parties need to negotiate.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:16 PM
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59: What tradition did you get married in, with all the vegetation?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:18 PM
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59: Enough alcohol and you don't have to be troubled by any sort of consciousness.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:19 PM
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I find them ill-advised from a fashion and potential employment sense

It's kind of shocking how common neck tattoos are, from an employment standpoint. They are pretty common around here, and dang. Really? Your neck?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:20 PM
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61 -- I just added a picture I took Saturday of a road sign near here to the pool. Read it aloud.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:20 PM
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By "common around here" I do not mean Heebie U, which has the lamest, most non-adventurous fashion sense I've ever seen. I mean the larger community, which is down, down, down on its luck.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:21 PM
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I don't care much about weddings. That is, I agree with LB's post 54, that it's a good occasion for the nicest party you've yet thrown but it is pragmatic to make that a difference of degree, not kind; and also I don't seem to specifically want to be married (I am all kinds of committed to my partner, and happy in the belief that he is to me). If the Dwarf Lord would like a big wedding, I will be second-in-command while we organize it, and I'll get out the good china and mangle the linens and write the invitations, but I'm not going to take point.

He gets no joshing or criticism from the extended family. I get lots, despite fifteen years of explaining the above. I don't really believe weddings are just something the stupid wimmenz want because *damn* are the social expectations powerful. Especially after these conversations, I suspect that I don't want to be legally married because the pushing would just switch to having and raising kids while doing whatever's best for his career. And our parents are consciously egalitarian!


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:23 PM
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67: True here too, and I wonder if it's a provocation of sorts or something. I mean, you're already underemployed and undereducated so why not? I don't really know what the mindset is, though.

I do pass the time at church by noting that names go on the side of your neck and Zodiac signs (with rainbow detail if you're super gay) go on the back of the neck, in case that helps anyone here avoid a fashion faux pas.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:24 PM
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What tradition did you get married in, with all the vegetation?

Anglican / Episcopalian, with local color.


Posted by: Knecht | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:26 PM
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Didn't realize there was a Hawai'ian connection, but of course it makes sense now.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:27 PM
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The last wedding I attended was not the only party where I didn't feel self-conscious, but it was one of the few where that was the case; also, it was just a straight-up fantastic party. I have no idea how the labor of planning it was divided but given the persons involved I would guess it was pretty equitable (and probably also pretty low-key).


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:34 PM
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That is, I agree with LB's post 54, that it's a good occasion for the nicest party you've yet thrown but it is pragmatic to make that a difference of degree, not kind

The problem here is that most people never throw parties for more than, say, six people.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:34 PM
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Pffffbbbbbbbtttt!


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:43 PM
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Which does make it a difference in kind -- you're not going to personally cook dinner for fifty people, probably, so you're going to be exploring some kind of catering, which will be unfamiliar. But thinking "would I ever worry about this in my real social life" knocks a lot of the issues out.

If I have one gripe that's bigger than another, wedding dresses really annoy me. Spending lots of money on a one-time-only dress seems like a really screwy decision to me; I'd love it if someone could haul the wedding-dress norm back to "Get a new dress that's appropriate for the fanciest occasions you'd wear a dress to."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:44 PM
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I just got an email with information on some children awaiting adoption, not ones we'd consider accepting because of their location, but I googled one of the more unusual names and ended up on their mother's mug shot and info at the department of corrections listing that all of their names are on a breast tattoo and her neck tattoo is her name plus another name. Weird.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:48 PM
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The problem here is that most people never throw parties for more than, say, six people.

It is true. Throwing parties is its own skill, worthy of thought and practice.

I have asked people whom I know to be event organizers if people who find wedding planning to be overwhelming are flustered because weddings are different or because they've never organized a large party before. I've gotten contradictory answers. One event organizer said "eh, it is just another big event, but it is mine, so I get to make all the decisions." Another said "no, I can handle the logistics just fine, but there's a lot more politics and emotion making it harder than usual."


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:53 PM
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Most people don't invite their parents to their parties. And people who do invite (all four!) parents to their regular parties probably have less stressful weddings.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 1:57 PM
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Well of course it's not just an ordinary event, it is THE MOST IMPORTANT DAY OF YOUR LIFE. And I've been to some weddings that took the casual approach that pretty much sucked -- it can be just as challenging to plan an awesome casual party as it can be to plan one that requires precisely color-coordinated napkin holders or whatever.

I think some people are just better at event planning than others, and it really shows. I mean, it's stupid to be pissed off at the event planning quality at anyone's wedding; the couple is happy, their friends are there, what's not to like. But having been to a zillion weddings by now there really is quite a range.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:00 PM
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Well, there you go: the Dwarf Lord & I were up to thirty or forty people regularly before we changed cities, & invited all six parents.

I think weddings larger than that were much rarer a generation ago. How many people fit in the average church basement or VA hall?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:04 PM
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Sure, being relaxed about it is no guarantee that the wedding itself won't suck -- people who plan events well will have fun weddings, people who don't probably won't. But not trying to hit a completely unfamiliar level of formality does reduce the amount the preceding six months are going to suck.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:04 PM
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Um, what are we talking about?


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:07 PM
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I think some people are just better at event planning than others

It is not inborn magic. It is a learn-able skill; practice and critique improve the host's abilities.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:10 PM
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66: I don't have a the PW. Also, I don't have a flickr account.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:12 PM
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It is not a learn-able skill. Invite thirty people over to a party that turns out to be a disaster, they won't come to your next party.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:15 PM
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Oh, I agree with 83. Which is why so many people leave the wedding planning to professionals, who unfortunately then tend to reproduce boring wedding industrial-complex weddings.

I doubt that having the more "casual" wedding reduces peoples freak-outedness all that much; it's just an inherently freak-outy event for anyone so inclined, adhering to the various rituals can provide some structure, and party planning is hard in general. I don't really think there's a clear solution to the wedding planning tension problem, other than (1) be a good party planner or (2) get lucky with hiring someone or (3) be a naturally non-freak-outy kind of person.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:18 PM
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In most places, there's many different sets of thirty people. Also, nearly everybody has thirty people they can apply guilt to at least twice.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:19 PM
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Throw multiple crappy parties in college, when anyone will attend anything. Notice what made them happy and at ease and do more of that at the next party. Notice what didn't get used and stop doing that. Notice what you like at a party (my latest new party trick? Grilled cheese sandwiches at 11:30pm. Works a fucking charm; lights up the room. Saw it at a wedding.) and copy that.

Totally learnable. Do something predictable for the first party (there are enough scripts for standard parties) and then improve from that base.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:20 PM
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Completely OT, check out this email from my kid's preschool (they send an email every day describing what happened in school):

SONGS: Welcome Song. Children were asked to choose a friend to welcome to school and tell us the color of this friend's bottoms.
BOOK: Shark vs. Train

What is going on in there?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:23 PM
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Is 85 supposed to be ridiculous?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:27 PM
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Is 89 supposed to be ridiculous?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:30 PM
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Well, my comment was supposed to be ridiculous. I think the email was in earnest. It may be funnier/more bizarre if your first association with "Shark v. Train" is the scene from Megashark vs. Giant Octopus where the Megashark eats a plane.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:32 PM
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88: We once had five kegs going. The police came with a bus, but didn't arrest anybody who left quickly.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:35 PM
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Train wins. Unless it passes through the ocean. Then my money's on the shark.


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:37 PM
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95

To the first part, were the arriving children perhaps wearing two-piece swim outfits?


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:39 PM
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I sure hope so.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:40 PM
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7: I've been in and out lately, because of teh work, but congrats to Parenthetical on the slowly impending two-piece nuptuals!


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:45 PM
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85: So don't start with thirty, start with six. In fact, start with the usual household, but make sure you can get the planned food & drink deployed on a party schedule.

In case of disaster on the night, get them to sing about each other's bottoms.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 2:53 PM
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Shark vs. Train!

But... the friend's bottoms? That makes me think of this.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 3:25 PM
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As an event producer, I had a great time throwing my own wedding. All my regular vendors donated sound, lighting, decor, etc, and all my crew, who are also my friends, came and we all worked our asses off to put it on. It was cool because it involved doing the usual stuff we always have to do for events... yet somehow it all felt extremely sincere/real, instead of the usual "going down the checklist of what an event requires." And because we always work our asses off for events, but this time it was for our own party and we got to enjoy it when we were done.

That said, I am not and would never want to be a wedding producer - everyone takes all the trivial details way, way too seriously, without the usual perspective about what's really important for the event and what's not. Way too much pressure.


Posted by: freight train | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 3:54 PM
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As an event producer, I had a great time throwing my own wedding. All my regular vendors donated sound, lighting, decor, etc, and all my crew, who are also my friends, came and we all worked our asses off to put it on. It was cool because it involved doing the usual stuff we always have to do for events... yet somehow it all felt extremely sincere/real, instead of the usual "going down the checklist of what an event requires." And because we always work our asses off for events, but this time it was for our own party and we got to enjoy it when we were done.

That said, I am not and would never want to be a wedding producer - everyone takes all the trivial details way, way too seriously, without the usual perspective about what's really important for the event and what's not. Way too much pressure.


Posted by: freight train | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 3:54 PM
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whoops sorry 'bout that.


Posted by: freight train | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 3:55 PM
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But how do you feel about sharks?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 4:03 PM
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A great wedding labor equalizer is when the groom is more comfortable than the bride with Excel. You can do a lot of wedding labor in Excel.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 6:14 PM
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Except that in a couple of years "You vacuum, I'll do the computer work" often seems like a bad deal.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 6:18 PM
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Not to mention, "Come check out this pivot table," is bound to leave someone disappointed.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 6:55 PM
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How great a name is "Sniezek"?


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 7:24 PM
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54: Inviting your family and friends to see you get married makes sense, and throwing a party makes sense, and it's going to be an unusually big party, so it's not going to be free. But honestly, if you live the kind of life where you worry about co-ordinating your clothes with the borders on the table linens, you know that already, and it's not a crazy effort for you.

Back in the day, when most people lived in an agricultural village type setting, and the family was all on hand, 'big weddings' made sense. Get all the neighbors together and throw a party and they might even roast a whole pig in the front yard.

It's socially valuable to oh, everybody, for the families to reconcile themselves to being bonded together, good for the social order if everyone has a chance to relax, good psychologically to get the couple's head on the same page. It's a lot of things, but it was hardly romantic. This is still the case, or so the usual social science suspects tell me.

What appear so to be going on now, is that function is still present, but it is massively larded up with ostentatious status displays and a cotton candy pretend emotionalism that has nothing to do with what's going on. It appears to me that women (on average) are encouraged and/or demand a vast emotional investment in the psuedo-romantic "meaning" precisely because a wedding doesn't have any meaning in that sense. Making out in the rain next to Eiffel tower (or something like that) is romantic; matching the table linens to the dress isn't. I've been to a more than a few weddings and have never attended a good one yet; even with the downer of the occasion, I can say I've been to a few good funerals.

68: I don't really believe weddings are just something the stupid wimmenz want because *damn* are the social expectations powerful.

I don't think weddings are innately stupid, only that romance and ponies and unicorns and crap don't have much to do with them. That Bride magazine cover I mentioned seeing was a headshot of a stern-faced bride with enough (stark white) hardware on the top of her head to compete with the Golden Gate bridge. The entire cover spoke to me and it said: 'The Once and Future Queen Vic'.

It takes all kinds I guess, but gee, I can't say I have a deep and abiding respect for that caca.

62: I'm guessing that there are more people like me, who like a clean domicile but would rather not do the cleaning themselves, then there are untidy/unclean people who are genuinely happy with living in the conditions their cleaning habits produce.

I did all the cleanup and cooking at the ex's place back in the day and I didn't particularly mind doing it (I was good at it, said I, so shut up and stay out of the way while I get on with it), but I am completely sympathetic to women complaining about being stuck with the housework and never getting any fucking credit for it. I didn't get an credit either, and I think this has something to do with the low value accorded housework than sexist issues. (I don't mean sexism isn't at work there, I mean there are two overlapping but distinct issues involved.)

max
['Bleh.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 7:39 PM
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104: we used google docs.

And our wedding was fucking awesome. So fun. Damn.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:18 PM
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We got a lot of stuff (location, sound, DJing, officiant) donated and spent the money we saved on other things we felt were important (better booze). Also, we made things with LEDs. And I was resplendent in white.

Still a ton of work, but it helps to have a lot of friends who understand how to throw a party.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:21 PM
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Looking back at 109 and 100, I think the key strategy we employed was being really lucky with the things that sort of fell into our laps. Without the free location, especially, things would have been far, far more difficult. The fact that we had dozens of friends we knew we could corral into helping didn't hurt, either.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:27 PM
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The contribution I made that I'm proudest of, probably, is acquiring the sheet music to this arrangement so that it could be played as a recessional.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:27 PM
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I also largely concur with 18.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:33 PM
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Turns out it's just me in this thread, though.

Hey, Sifu, did you know that Sifu had a really swell time at (and preparing for, mostly) his wedding?

No!

Yes, true!

Wow!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:34 PM
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What appear so to be going on now, is that function is still present, but it is massively larded up with ostentatious status displays and a cotton candy pretend emotionalism that has nothing to do with what's going on.

Sounds like a lot of y'all go to some crappy weddings. (Or just watch a lot of reality tv?) I think very fondly on all the weddings I've been to in the past several years. So ditto to Kraab's 18, including the caveat about missing family weddings.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:35 PM
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I think everybody else was just waiting to see you fill the sidebar.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:38 PM
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D'oh! I ruined it.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:43 PM
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Ahh everybody's seen that before.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:43 PM
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It appears to me that women (on average) are encouraged and/or demand a vast emotional investment in the psuedo-romantic "meaning" precisely because a wedding doesn't have any meaning in that sense. Making out in the rain next to Eiffel tower (or something like that) is romantic; matching the table linens to the dress isn't.

I'm sure these weddings exist, but I don't go to them. Like 18 and its supporters, I go to weddings where people are eager to celebrate the couple, willing to travel to do so, where people indulge in expense and stagecraft to produce a heightened celebration outside of day-to-day life.

I am honored to be a best man for a friend's upcoming event. He is trying to have this piece arranged as a processional.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:45 PM
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I hope he's planning to use "Let's All Go to the Lobby" for the recessional.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:51 PM
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We had one of the tourist streetcar dealies, that was pretty rad. And a sing-a-long! And one incredibly drunk plus-one who threw her "date"'s car keys ('71 VW bug. He'd driven it clear across the country) into the ocean!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:52 PM
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Then they can have hors d'oeuvres right outside after the ceremony, and have a barbershop quarter sing href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqPcdVmz5BQ">this one.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:54 PM
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Pwned, but value added!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:54 PM
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Um, value added if you cut and paste.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:55 PM
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Or this version!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 8:56 PM
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I totally want to hear the barbershop quartet arrangement of that.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 9:03 PM
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I would pay money to see this used as a processional.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 9:10 PM
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I threatened to use that one. But we had a violin and a flute to work with and that would have been just sad.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 9:19 PM
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127 seems to be faster than I remember it.

I think it would be more effective a bit slower.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:01 PM
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Oh, I'm sure Max agrees that all of YOUR weddings were awesome, you special little snowflakes.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 10:49 PM
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I'm trying to be warm and friendly and in tune with k-sky's 119, but 'celebrate the couple' is giving me the pip. 'expense and stagecraft to produce a heightened celebration' is beautifully SWPL-phrased, but I'm not sure it says anything more than "most classy version of your special day".

And really, I'm lost at "I'm sure these weddings exist, but I don't go to them." Are all your friends and relatives sane and tasteful, or do you just turn down the invitations?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 09-12-11 11:01 PM
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No, this is the recessional.

I think if you're not on board with "celebrate the couple," then we may simply have different values regarding weddings. I really am down with throwing a big party and doing what you can to make it feel different from an ordinary rager. Part of that is done with ceremony and ritual. Part of that is done with assembling people who wouldn't get together -- often by traveling great distances -- because of their feelings for the people who are getting married. And part of that is setting. Some people do it in a grand ballroom, some people do it on a farm, some people do it at the VFW hall, but every one I've seen has attempted some transporting effect. Some were shockingly expensive and wound up beautiful, some shockingly expensive and wound up ostentatious.

But none felt like they were about pseudo-romance, and even the biggest Wedding Capades I've been to felt like they were about the couple's people (including some of Daddy's clients) coming together to celebrate their love and partnership. I think it's fine to point out that people get snookered by the wedding-industrial complex, but it's weird to suggest that their weddings don't also celebrate love.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 09-13-11 12:02 AM
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So, who doesn't like weddings? Even the tackiest ones I've been too are joyous and fun and celebratory.

Also, there's something wrong with the notion that your wedding's not OK unless it's SWPL and perfect enough -- that's just kind of Modern Bride obsessiveness taken to another level.

On the other hand, as I said upthread, some folks are just better party planners than others. That jus seems like a true fact about the world. But that doesn't really matter much for the joyousness; it matters most if you're a plus one dragged to the event of people you don't know.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-13-11 8:27 AM
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97: Thanks, JimmyPongo! We sure appreciate the good thoughts!


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 09-13-11 7:47 PM
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