My employer changed providers in 2011. So I'm calling the old provider, from 2010.
"Because we no longer cover you, we can't access our computer records about claims filed when we did cover you."
(I'm on hold again.)
Just tell the lab to go fuck themselves. What can they do about it if you have an EOB saying it was paid for?
I suppose I do, somewhere, two years old. But what good is that, if they're billing me again? They've got an invoice, with a number, and I haven't paid it.
Why don't you just give the thugs their money and go on with your life? Imagine that you live in Russia or Macau. Develop a knowing, world-weary attitude.
Old insurance company: Your employer asked for all its records back, so you'll have to call your new insurance company.
Yuck. Yesterday there were three people in my FB news feed complaining about insurance company crap. One had been working with her 4-year-old all week to get him psyched up to go to the dentist, and then when they arrived for his appointment, because of some insurance snafu they wouldn't even see him.
I've been dealing with exactly this sort of BS ever since moving the wife and kids onto my insurance a fucking *year* ago. I have seriously teetered on the edge of buying a rifle and heading over to the Blue Cross building to explain their endless, serial fuck-ups to them more forcefully, because talking to them on the phone accomplishes next to nothing. I can't express in words the total, all-encompassing homicidal rage I harbor toward the health insurance industry generally and BCBS specifically. Bob's hatred for Pol Pot Obama doesn't even begin to approach it.
I had a situation kind of like this that turned out to be caused by my old insurance plan's failure to terminate my policy when I left Job 1, causing my new insurance plan, through Job 2 (from the same insurer, just a different plan), to fail to kick in for over a year. When the old plan noticed that I hadn't been eligible for coverage for all that time they started withdrawing previous payments and making me get my providers to resubmit to the correct plan.
The possibly-worst part is that I was the one who first brought the errors to the old plan's (and the providers') attention, having noticed that the EOB's I was getting said the wrong thing, because I believed that it would be better to deal with it sooner than wait for more years and more benefits. I might've been right, as it wound up costing only like $4, but still. What a pain in the ass.
Bonus Actual Advice Comment: If the insurers won't tell you anything, you could try asking the provider to resubmit the charge to the insurance, so that if they deny it at least you'll get a statement telling you why.
8: I'm told that BCBS in Texas is terrible. In MA everyone takes BCBS, and their PPO would be considered incredibly luxurious.
I have seriously teetered on the edge of buying a rifle and heading over to the Blue Cross building
See, this is why they want you to be able to buy insurance across state lines--it makes it harder for you to get to them.
I have a former rightwing friend (that is, a friend who was formerly rightwing) who works in IT for BCBS. His journey away from wingnuttery was cemented by the fact that people started forwarding calls from disgruntled insurance customers to him. He kept finding himself compelled to explain to people with horrible health problems that no, he didn't understand why insurance didn't cover their case, and no, he didn't know why the call had been forwarded to him.
Once you know all the players from your various phone calls, write a letter. Email is okay, if you attach PDFs of the old bill, new bill, EOB, etc. In my experience (triple charged for an ER visit, fun!), once there is something tangible that can be forwarded to whoever in the company actually can solve your problem, things may get moving. CC the lab, the new insurance, and the old insurance.
I just walked over to HR and the nice lady there is chasing things down for me. Thank fucking god.
I just changed health insurers and am looking forward to the pleasure of explaining my next paragliding injury to a whole new series of pack-a-day-smoking cyborgs.
My mother got a bill, 3 years after the fact, for a visit/procedure. Apparently the hospital forgot to bill her insurance for a full year, at which point she was no longer covered by that insurance, who refused to touch it. So the hospital tried to stick her with the whole bill. Months of phone calls and negotiations went by, no progress. Finally she took me in with her. I put on a suit, one I had bought in New York when I didn't know that real west coast journalists dress like slobs, and I gussied up a DIY business card that made it look like one of my many totally unvisited blogs was a viable local news operation. (But no actual lying, just over the top graphic design on a card left behind.) The bill was zeroed out the next week.
We thought of this tactic b/c we remembered that back when I really was a reporter working for a very large media company, she was hospitalized several times, and several of her seemingly unresolvable problems (roommate vomitted, but no one would clean it up; broken TV left blaring on all night; nonvegetarian food; each on separate hospitalizations) would magically disappear whenever I stopped in to check on her without taking off my badge.
I am completely cynical about the American medical establishment. I will allow for the occasional good person, but as far as the establishment and industry as a whole is concerned, I have zero faith.
Old insurance company: Your employer asked for all its records back, so you'll have to call your new insurance company.
This explanation doesn't seem to work. How could the old insurance company rescind coverage of something if it has no record of providing that thing? You're not asking for your old records, you're asking for a record of a new event.
They've got an invoice, with a number, and I haven't paid it.
Shouldn't the EOB should trump that, given that both the invoice and EOB should refer to the type, date, and provider of the care?
I'm just going to preempt all the British people showing up to ask how we can possibly live like this, and say that yes, almost everyone does live in monetary fear of ever developing a medical problem, and yes, almost everyone does avoid medical care from time to time because of financial constraints, and yes, almost everyone is unable to imagine a better system.
and yes, almost everyone is unable to imagine a better system except for the ones who have lived in other countries. I believe this was singled out on that site that shan't be mentioned.
I think the phrase "almost everyone" is suitable for describing the proportion of people in this country who haven't lived for a significant length of time in any other affluent country.
21: And I'm going to add that I boggled a group of American visitors recently when I explained to them that Mexican immigrants to the US are often shocked to find out that how localized and contradictory our healthcare systems are, up to and including the fact that -- unlike Mexico -- we do not have a standardized national immunization record.
This explanation doesn't seem to work. How could the old insurance company rescind coverage of something if it has no record of providing that thing? You're not asking for your old records, you're asking for a record of a new event.
Oh yes, I tried to explain this to her. "You JUST asked for your money back, in the past month or two." She re-explained about the computers that regularly purge all useful information. She assured me that the new insurance would know, which obviously they don't.
What I don't get is WHY DID THE LAB RETURN THE MONEY?!
26: Because the insurance company can threaten to pull a high percentage of their business from them?
Because the insurance company reimburses them for something or other daily -- the lab didn't have to actually return it, the insurance company could just subtract it from some other payment they were supposed to make to the lab. Market power is a beautiful thing.
21: At least we don't go around glassing one another for insulting Manchester United.
That's what Britons do, right?
Don't call me baby doll. I'm Sugar Tits.
29.1: In addition, I'd guess there is a subset that would glass you for not insulting Manchester United.
Any corporation at any time can make up an amount of money less than 5K or so, send you a bill for it, and you as a citizen have no viable recourse. It's ridiculous, insane, and infuriating. I'm not really sure what can be done about it.
33 is correct. ABMU (Anybody But Manchester United) is possibly the biggest footie tribe in England.
We understand about your health care thing. We wish there was something we could do, but we're here for you if you need to talk.
Any corporation at any time can make up an amount of money less than 5K or so, send you a bill for it, and you as a citizen have no viable recourse. It's ridiculous, insane, and infuriating. I'm not really sure what can be done about it.
I was just reading about a lawsuit between a fancy restaurant in Sun City, Utah, and either Mastercard or US Bank, over why exactly their credit card processor was allowed to level $80,000 in fines for supposed security violations without ever telling them precisely what those security violations were.
Any corporation at any time can make up an amount of money less than 5K or so, send you a bill for it, and you as a citizen have no viable recourse. It's ridiculous, insane, and infuriating. I'm not really sure what can be done about it.
I was just reading about a lawsuit between a fancy restaurant in Sun City, Utah, and either Mastercard or US Bank, over why exactly their credit card processor was allowed to level $80,000 in fines for supposed security violations without ever telling them precisely what those security violations were.
What bad thing are you worried would happen if you just ignored the bill?
Southern girls are so cute when they're mad.
OT: Lindsey Vonn is getting divorced? As is Katy Perry?
Sitcom!
38: I read about that just a bit earlier.
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Wow. Matthew Yglesias is now apparently speaking on immigration issues.
Where's Emerson when I need him?
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39: Bad credit. I suppose once you own a house things might be a bit different, as you might just be able to give the whole credit system a big fuck you.
What bad thing are you worried would happen if you just ignored the bill?
I assume they'd pass it on to a bill collector and I'd feel bad about myself as an upright citizen because I'd start ducking phone calls and circling the block if someone was lurking outside my door and gradually I'd start doing drugs like methadone that don't get you high, but are highly addictive.
46: Except it might be easier to fight to get it left off your credit rating than to fight the bill.
What possible reason would credit agencies have to be responsive? We're not their customers, the banks are.
45: Like Tebow, I am fond of Jesus and have not been able to throw a football decently since I chucked one magnificent arcing spiral in eight grade. [Schedules haircut.]
49: Because the money doesn't actually go to them if the lab gets paid and because a lab isn't a bank.
But, if it gets sold to a collection agency, I suppose that wouldn't work.
Talk of collection agencies makes me think of Anthony Powell's The Acceptance World, but that isn't quite what the title references.
46: Limited experience, but mortgages and credit cards seem to matter a lot more than other sorts of bills, and we had no problem explaining a bullshit Sprint bill that we'd refused to pay when we were buying our first house (which has been a while now).
47: But you'll end up being hounded by bill collectors anyway, because somewhere there's a deadbeat with your last name and the shittier collection agencies Just. Don't. Care. how many times you tell them you're not that person and won't pay their bills.
54.2: Getting a new phone number sucks for that reason. Apparently, nobody ever gives up a phone number unless it is because they can't pay a bill.
55: I get dunning calls for people with my last name often, but that's because I'm related to a lot of deadbeats who apparently give my number as a reference/contact when applying for student loans, credit cards, etc., that they never intend to repay.
55: We moved and changed phone numbers a couple of years ago. Within a few months, we were again getting the same calls we'd gotten at our old number. Now we just never answer the land line (no, I don't know why we keep paying for it).
Apparently, nobody ever gives up a phone number unless it is because they can't pay a bill.
Or have some sort of outstnading car insurance claim against them. I'm talking about you, Camille, owner of my phone number over five years ago.
One of my old roommates got a lot of bills/ordered a lot of catalog crap using fake names. Collection agencies would call him (often early in the morning), and when he answered say angrily "IS THIS [ AMUSING FAKE NAME ]?!?"
"No?"
"It's not?"
"No, it's not."
A shockingly effective technique! Also at some point the refusal of the residents of that house to ever let the meter reader in resulted in the gas company digging up the sidewalk with a backhoe in order to shut off service.
56, 57: We've never had that much trouble and it was only when our number was new.
I do get a few calls for people who aren't me but have the same name. Most of these are for the same guy (no relation), but he is VP of a bank, so they are very polite calls. We also go cards when his father died. We forwarded those, so I suppose he at least knows I exist now.
57: I also ignore the landline, largely because someone with a variant of my name has racked up a bunch of bills and the collection company is convinced that he's me. I've had a number of fruitless conversations in which I explain that the single letter difference between our names does actually mean I am a completely different person, not basically the same guy just with a different haircut.
59:
My experience is that conversation continues:
"Do you know where he is?"
"No."
"Do you know anybody who might know where he is, and can you give me their number?"
"No."
"Wouldn't you like to just settle this now so we don't have to keep calling you?"
"No."
"Why are you being so rude and uncooperative?"
And so on.
If it's any consolation, our current government would quite like to turn our health care system into your health care system. If that happens, nothing that anyone does to them (Tories) will be too harsh.
62: yeah this friend would either hang up by then or actively enjoy that, I'd think.
I once knew a guy who ordered a whole bunch of stuff from obnoxious TV ads using the name of the school's superintendent. I know at least some of it got there because it was shipped to the school. However, QVC was too smart for it. The operator asked for date of birth and followed that with "How old are you?" She hung-up when the two didn't match.
This stuff was from, like, the fingerhut catalog and columbia house, since they would let you sign up for a trial account without giving them a credit card. Worthless crap, by and large. I think he got a lava lamp out of the deal.
And by 63 I mean the whole Gaddafi death scene would be too good for them.
No land line at the house. I thought all you kids were living that way.
I have one at the office. My assistant still gets plenty of calls from the deadbeat who had the number 3 years ago.
Years ago, we put our then fax line in the dog's name, to save of the fee for having an unlisted number. She started getting credit card offers -- You've already been approved! -- but I don't think she ever bought anything.
Remember the Sally Struthers correspondence school ads? I called one time, using my roommate's name, and asked for information about a gun repair class. His name got sold from one company to another, moving deeper and deeper into the weeds of advocacy in support of the second amendment.
44 -- No, 43.2 is explained by 41.1. DRTFA, because the vole business isn't there.
68: I wouldn't try that with a cat. They're tricky little things.
Dogs cannot talk, so there is no point in getting them a phone line without a fax machine on it.
What is this insurance thing you speak of?
Send a letter to the insurance company saying that under your policy, you will only cover 50% of the bill they sent you. Do not include a check. Wait three days, and then send them a check for a different amount of money (not the full amount! some third amount of money.)
Then send them a letter saying you need 25% of the money back.
But Heebie, don't you like having the freedom to choose what level of healthcare you receive? Obama is going to take that away from you!
I guess that doesn't work because the bill is from the dr.
We need to create a situation like the Seinfeld episode where the cable guy had to schedule an appointment with Kramer.
I guess that doesn't work because the bill is from the dr.
We need to create a situation like the Seinfeld episode where the cable guy had to schedule an appointment with Kramer.
Maybe heebie should write back and say that she changed her mind and decided not to have the procedure.
78: Since it was a lab, demand the sample back.
69: My husband subscribed to a couple Republican magazines, which has resulted in him receiving the craziest mail. It's all about gun rights, protecting Israel, give us money to stop that Muslim president, how to build bomb shelters, etc.
Dear Sir or Madam,
It has come to my attention that you possess some of my urine/blood/fecal matter. Please return this immediately as I no longer wish to use your services.
Sincerely,
I think "Kafkaesque" is the right word here.
In MA subsidized commonwealth care can be better than a lot of private insurance. MassHealth is awesome too. Things might not be covered by our Medicaid, and you don't get as many fancy new drugs, but you would never get a bill.
A co-worker is hassling with two mega-banks because the bank which expected to receive his auto-paid mortgage is claiming that it did not receive the check and the bank which should have sent the check claims that it did *too* send the check.
Both mega-banks are charging him fees over the deal.
He spent an hour on the phone with no help in sight. He is pissed.
Oh, yeah, the transaction should have happened on Jan 1, and he just noticed it now because he saw the fee on his statement.
And I overheard some poor guy at the clinic business window being told that his supposed 'insurance' would not cover a procedure he required for his son. The guy drove up here from Texas, and he was staying a couple days with his kid, and he found out when he got here that insurance said "no." Man was he pissed, and he wanted answers, but unfortunately the "oyaM" representative could only repeat what she knew - the insurance denied the coverage.
Both mega-banks are charging him fees over the deal.
And yet it's abortion clinics that keep getting bombed.
84: You would think that nothing could be simpler than setting up an ACH transaction and having it run continually for a certain period. In fact, there are lots of little fingers poking around in there all the time, so opportunities for error arise quite a bit more often than would be ideal.
I don't know about other financial institutions, but at my brokerage, the "Treasuries" department (really the "checks, ACHs, credit cards and fraud department -- in the sense that cash is a negotiable Treasury note) was where ambition went to die. Almost all lifers, not very creative or interested in their work. Anyone with any sense got out of there as fast as possible. So the errors were even magnified beyond the baseline systemic/institutional/electronic risk.
You would think that nothing could be simpler than setting up an ACH transaction and having it run continually for a certain period.
Fuck a bunch of that. We get online and manually pay the bills every month (with maybe one or two exceptions like our county rec center). I'll do that for the next 100 years before I give access to my account to a godamn mortgage company.
I can't express in words the total, all-encompassing homicidal rage I harbor toward the health insurance industry generally
Word. And once again I am dumbfounded that the Democrats didn't seem to think they could take on insurance companies in a PR fight when it came to health care reform. Just wait until the Supreme Court affirms the govt. can mandate we buy their shitty product. Everyone, lock and load.
88: Yeah, I certainly sympathize with that. I mean, most of the time these types of mistakes (as in Tripp's cow orker's case) are resolved very easily and quickly, but the ones that get more complicated/screwed-up are a total nightmare.
Not for nothing are there so many pre-dispute arbitration clauses in financial products contracts.
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The results may have been skewed by oversampling of "bob mcmanus" and "LizardBreath".
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Our dentist sent a bill ($14) against wife's account for hi fluoride toothpaste. She does not use said toothpaste so that's an error. I do use it but it's more expensive from the dentist than a pharmacy, so I'm pretty certain I didn't get it from them this time, I just got a prescription. There's also no reason I would have not paid the bill at the visit- our appointments are at the same time. But of course I can't prove any of this, other than maybe getting a receipt from the pharmacy that I got toothpaste around the same time and why would I have gotten two?
IOW, shorter 34.
They also informed me during the same call that the dental insurance company says I'm not covered as of Jan 1, even though I have my open enrollment receipt that says I signed up for coverage. That's another hour of phone time coming up.
91: For years I've been trying to tell y'all motherfuckers that people who comment under their own names can be at least as nasty as pseudonymous and anonymous commenters.
If that is your real name, "John."
I can easily be googled. I am a math professor in New Hampshire, or maybe a megalomaniac martial artist, or maybe a guy who works on Tibetan issues and does some sort of graphics.
The bar plot linked in 91 is impressively wrong.
ttaM in 63:
If it's any consolation, our current government would quite like to turn our health care system into your health care system. If that happens, nothing that anyone does to them (Tories) will be too harsh.
I was listening to one of those Radio 4 comedy shows, and one of the panelists said something about Nck Clegg being the most reviled politician right now. Basically he said, "Cameron's a bastard, but Clegg is a bastard's bitch and that's so much worse." I always liked Paddy Ashdown and was kind of fond of the Lib Dems, but, honestly, they (the MPs more than many of their voters) have a lot to answer for.
So are we just not paying any attention to New Hampshire, or what?
Romney wins, Huntsman and Paul do OK. Who will do worse, Santorum of Gingrich? Why didn't Perry drop out?
End of story.
I'm hoping that Vermin Supreme will give Obama a scare, but not likely.
Huntsman and Perry will withdraw. OK, maybe Perry sticks around because he is deluded.
I keep reading Vermin Supreme as some type of pasta dish.
Poor Huntsman. If I were a Republican, I'd be rooting for him.
It's been occurring to me lately that it's too bad presidential tickets -- Pres. + Vice-Pres. -- aren't more of a team endeavor once actually in the house. Huntsman brings the economic globalization/foreign policy non-idiocy, even though he's a bit confused on domestic policy (so-called entitlements). Hey, maybe Huntsman is rehearsing for Sect'y of State eventually; not sure why establishment Republicans find him so distasteful.
not sure why establishment Republicans find him so distasteful
He literally served in the Obama administration. Given that, I can't figure out what he thinks he's doing running for anything as a Republican.
not sure why establishment Republicans find him so distasteful
He believes in global warming, evolution and civil marriage. Also, anyone that spends that much time in China must be a spy.
Ugh. A hospital bill I've been paying in installments for the last year got forwarded to a collections agency. When I called the collections agency, they said I had missed two payments, one in December, which was reason enough to go to collections.
I remembered missing Sep and double-paying Oct, and had no recollection of even receiving the December bill. When I called the hospital, they explained why: the bill was fully paid. (They said they'd take care of it right away. We'll see.)
I haven't even begun to wade into filing claims. I was with Kaiser Permanente until two years ago, so the whole idea of having to file claims makes me shudder.
Who will do worse, Santorum of Gingrich?
You can't do much worse than that if you're looking for ingredients for your magic potion.
105: Right, but he has a good response to objections to that: he was serving his country, and one doesn't ask about party affiliations in such circumstances.
Eh, it's a question whether one would like to see the Republican party become a bit less nuts. Ultimately, I'm in favor. I have to tip to my hat to Huntsman for insisting on trying it.
Right, but he has a good response to objections to that: he was serving his country, and one doesn't ask about party affiliations in such circumstances.
Somehow I doubt that counts as a "good response" among the sorts of people who vote in Republican primaries.
I can't figure out what he thinks he's doing running for anything as a Republican.
110: Depends on which state. He got a fair number of applause lines at the NH debate(s) a couple of days ago.
I say again that it's completely fucked up that Iowa, NH and SC are the first three primary (/caucus) states.
OK, here's what I want: Perry about where he is at 1%, Santorum and Gingrich under 10%, Huntsman ahead of Paul, and Romney under 35%. That would be the most painful for everyone involved except Huntsman. For that to happen Huntsman would have to get about 26%.
I know there's a vast horde of Huntsman voters still uncounted somewhere.
Coos County is 58% for Other. Ha!
NYT has the important chart: delegate counts. Does not include NH—yet.
114: I suppose Huntsman could still pull ahead of Paul, but his campaign arrangements elsewhere totally suck, so.
This is mostly about the directions in which the party is pulled. I actually can't tell whether I'd rather Perry stay in, just as a demonstration of what rabid Republican conservatism looks like (i.e. embarrassing). I think it's obvious to everyone that he's embarrassing, not just personally, but come on: Congress should become part-time? You couldn't ask for a better parody of small-government conservative Republicanism. The contrast between him and Huntsman (say) is so striking.
Just got back from seeing my brother-in-law at a VA hospital. Talk about nice facilities and efficient staff! So much nicer than the private hospital I took my wife to for her recent appendectomy.
How come only veterans get to have awesome, socialized medicine?
Could the rescinding of funds be related to this?
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Where was that humorous essay about how World War II (as seen on the History Channel) was not believable?
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Yes, that was the one. Just like to reread it occasionally to make sure it is still funny.
117 - The VA's are often nice, though they too can be an entirely enfuriating buracracy. In my experience, they did dementia care exceedingly well. Hope your wife is healing well. I'm actually writting this from my partner's hospital room who is just post-op from burst appendix surgery (everything went really well, and the surgeon at this local [small] hospital seemed totally awesome!).
good luck to you and your partner, rance!
Yes, hope all goes well with the surgery.
The VA is very nice. Just don't eat the food. Etymology enthusiasts visiting visiting with friends or family on their first trip can have fun explaining that "Retail Store" isn't really redundant.
The second "visiting" might be redundant.
But you'll end up being hounded by bill collectors anyway, because somewhere there's a deadbeat with your last name and the shittier collection agencies Just. Don't. Care. how many times you tell them you're not that person and won't pay their bills.
Or worse, will keep sending bills to the person that may or may not have lived at your address but if they did it was in 2004 at the latest as you've been living there since 2005 and the pile of bumf that greeted you on first inspection of your new house was at least six months old. They will keeping those same bills despite numerous telephonic and written corrections.
Health insurance is one of the reasons that I'm sometimes hesitant/apprehensive about returning to the US. On the other hand, Harper wants to make Canada like the US, except maybe for the wars, or at least starting the wars.
What I don't get is WHY DID THE LAB RETURN THE MONEY?!
Well, one reason might be that they're a very gullible lab that just pays up large sums of money on first request without much checking as to the validity of the invoice. Send them a bill for $5000 consulting services and find out.
Serious response to OP: Why not tell them to take it up with the insurance company? Until they can tell you why the insurance company asked for and got its money back, why the hell should it be any of your concern?
129: You forget that many of us live in a third-world country, where not paying random bills demanded by organized crime organizations known as "insurance companies" will lead to their enforcers, "credit agencies," ensuring that you can never buy anything important again.
130. If this is as much of a problem as you contend, why are there not thousands of scammers sending spurious bills to vulnerable people all the time? It wouldn't be too hard for them to cover their arses or just disappear if they were investigated.
There are. I had to straighten something like that out for my babysitter back when she worked for us -- she'd been being harassed by a collection agency. Getting on the phone and saying that "This is Ms. [Rodriguez's] attorney -- can you give me the details of when and how this debt was incurred?" made them go right away.
132: I was about to suggest lawyering up in conjunction with 129.
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I am eating breakfast in a hotel eavesdropping on what can only, in context, be part of a job interview, but sounded for a while amusingly like a first date.
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134: did it finish with the words "You'll do"?
http://www.unfogged.com/archives/comments_11301.html#1315083
On further listening, clearly geologists. Some sort of joke about students as clay to be molded, but a particular kind of clay. Stormcrow would get it, I'm sure. I should try to stop eavesdropping.
135: Did Dona Q change names or just disappear? She was fun.
One day I hope to find some one who will look deep into my eyes and say, "You'll do."
Probably what my father said to my mother.
131: Probably the higher expected returns of buying old debt (a certain percentage really do owe money) make it worth while for collection agencies try in a half-assed way. Outright fraud is likely less profitable.
137: I think she just disappeared. She was fun. Come back, donaquixote!
I should try to stop eavesdropping.
Why? keep liveblogging.
The U.S. debt collection process has vastly different rules that apply once you get a lawyer involved. My dad got involved in a debt collection issue a while back. I may have mentioned this before but nobody else seems to be saying much so I don't care about repeated myself. A retired woman with a small fixed income had borrowed many thousands on a store card many years ago. She came to this charity where my dad volunteers asking for help paying her heat bill. This is apparently a nosy charity (or a chatty lady) and it came to light that she was falling behind on all her bills while paying only the minimum on this old debt (i.e. not enough to put a dent in the debt in her expected lifetime). Dad wrote a letter saying she can't pay, you can't make her pay, and he was the attorney representing her in this matter (i.e. if you contact her directly, I can sue you). It was maybe an hour of work for him, but most people don't have those resources. I heard one side of one of the phone conversations and it appeared they were trying to satisfy themselves that dad was a real lawyer.
The collection people made noise about wanting some paperwork, but dad told them he wasn't going to bother. Without an actual bankruptcy, they could get a court order, but her pension was well below what you could legally garnish. Her assets were very small and not liable to be seized. Bankruptcy would have been a stress, expensive, plus she would have had to have paid something. Of course, that company could sell the debt for one cent on the dollar and the process might start over.
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You can stop your ridiculous Yglesias will endorse Romney speculation now. This couldn't be clearer: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/01/11/mitt_romney_is_pretty_conservative.html
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The UK equivalent of random insurance bills would be privatised energy companies and "estimated readings", which translates as "I pulled this random, 32-bit signed integer out of my arse. Gimme £200". The correct response is "Tell that to the Marines". They usually back down. The only possible conclusion is that an estimated power bill is purely and simply an initial negotiating position without any link to economic reality, and they really don't care how much power or gas you actually used. If they did, they'd read the meter.
My favourite counter-jumper moment was when the gas company sent me a huge bill based on an "estimated" reading, and I calculated that a) 97% of the alleged usage had occurred within the space of two weeks and b) that amounted to more gas than a standard UK domestic gas supply could have delivered in that time had I cut off the regulator and just let it hiss into empty air at the maximum flow-rate. It took several hours with google and wikipedia and moneysavingexpert and a couple of gas-fitter forums, but the satisfaction was worth it and they retreated to a mere 7% increase in the bill, from something like 60%.
I've never had that kind of issue. The estimated bill is never very far off. Of course, they do an actual reading once or twice a year.
144. I've never had a situation quite like this, but shortly after we moved in to our present house we got an estimated bill in four figures (sterling), which included a period in which the place had been occupied by the previous owners. We roughly halved it in a couple of phone calls.
The thing about estimated bills is that when they read the meter they (usually) straighten it out. So it's like you're giving them an advance, not a donation - not acceptable, but not as bad as a random bill from who knows what.
The other thing that can fuck you over id direct debits to utility companies - my Dad agreed to pay his gas bill by DD and after about three years they owed him £300, which they were resentful about paying.
I pay mine by dd, and have claimed back credit a couple of times - only met with feeble suggestions to leave it there for the future.
Last autumn I got a letter saying they were going to put up my gas dd, so I did a meter reading to show that it was unnecessary. Except, when I typed in the new reading, the web site said that I now owed them £9800. Which was surprising. Turned out someone had entered a 5 instead of a 3 when it had been read in the summer, and now my reading was less than their reading, so the computer thought that we had gone the entire way round the meter.
Turned out someone had entered a 5 instead of a 3 when it had been read in the summer, and now my reading was less than their reading, so the computer thought that we had gone the entire way round the meter.
How receptive were they to your suggestion that something like this might be the case?
The only time I've managed to win a fight was landlords who wanted us to pay the water bill even though the contract said they would pay. There there was a contract and a government organization I could report them to who could take away their ability to rent.
I've been talking about home ownership with my girlfriend a fair amount recently, and marriage and children came up just last night, and this and the Sudoku thread (which I've only partially read) make me more wary of that stuff than everything John Emerson has ever written. (Sorry, John.)
They really aren't the same thing, marriage and homeownership.
Marriage is easier to get into and easier to get out of. Statistically speaking, your house is less likely to murder you in your sleep.
Remodeling and maintenance are marriage, and marriage is remodelling and maintenance. If you don't like working around the house don't get married, or it's your own damn fault. What else does "commitment" mean? (Well, there's being institutionalized on grounds of incompetence too.)
Statistically speaking, your house is less likely to murder you in your sleep.
Offer not valid for Urple.
I think his house will wake him before the murder. It clearly relishes the reaction.
There's a bit in The Club of Queer Trades which points out that humanity's war against matter started off being fought against relatively large lumps of matter (lions, tigers, sharks) and, these being vanquished, is now mainly fought against very small lumps of matter (microbes, collar studs).
155.2 seems appropriate here too.
I'm also concerned about this homeownership thing. Do those of you who own homes regret it? Should I seriously reconsider my plan to buy over sometime in the next couple of years?
I absolutely fucking love homeownership. But, I am a boring domestic person who enjoys yardwork and kitchen work and can afford to pay someone else to do boring or hard fix-it stuff. Also, my house doesn't eat all my disposable income. If those things weren't true, I might be more balanced about it.
158: This may be due to peculiarities of the local market, but it would cost me a fair bit more to live in any rental unit comparable to my house. This is true even factoring in things like the occasional roof replacement. Of course, house prices are still rising in my area. And it would be very hard to find a rental with a comparable level of amenities. There just isn't that much up for lease in the area.
I think it's like that most places -- talking to non-NYC people, it sounds like it's tricky finding rental accommodations for middle-class grownups who mean to be fairly settled in lots of places.
Yeah. The local market in Boston has both condos and apartments of similar size, but there's a pretty clear division between them in terms of quality - LB's settled middle-class grownups are expected to gravitate towards the condos.
(I do kind of wish the incentives didn't align towards making all condos "luxury condos"; 9 2BR units at $750k each is not really what my neighborhood needs, though it can likely support that)
It's not impossible to rent a house where I am. There are at least two on my street. The only one I know the rent on goes for over a third more than my mortgage plus insurance plus taxes. Even without the deduction, that covers the maintenance. The other one I suspect goes for much less but that has been rented to the same guy for over eight years.
It's partly an emotional decision, but for thinking about numbers, look at the case-shiller index in your city to see if houses are relatively cheap or expensive compared to historical norms. It's been good for me, cheaper than renting, but I bought low.
It's partly an emotional decision, but for thinking about numbers...
...decide how likely it is that a landlord will call for a maintenance visit when you are out of town and you'll have to scramble back home to hide all the UV lights.
Right, if privacy and the freedom to mangle your own plumbing and walls are important, avoid HOAs or townhouses. For these there are decisions that must be taken collectively with neighbors.
You can mangle your own plumbing just fine with an HOA or a townhouse. With the townhouse, you might want to worry about if your neighbor has mangled theirs.
You can mangle your own plumbing just fine with an HOA or a townhouse. With the townhouse, you might want to worry about if your neighbor has mangled theirs.
You can mangle your own plumbing IYKWIMAITTYD
I'm about to learn the joys of home-ownership as people are building a house for me in java, which will then be "knocked down" (peg construction) and moved to my new property in indonesia. I'm sure there won't be any problems installing the kitchen. LOLOLOL. no, I'm going to supervise that part but nonetheless...I have concerns. I have to hire people to guard it while I'm not there. sort of guard/mow the lawn combo. I may regret this, but what the fuck, I've rented my whole life; I can't afford to buy a closet in narnia (in addition to which I have a sweetheart rental deal, you can ask nakku); I've always wanted my own beach vacation home. fuck it, I went for it.
That sounds pretty intense, alameida. I'm actually rather curious about the housing situation in Singapore, because I've long had a visceral antipathy towards limiting residential density, but never bothered to learn much about places (e.g., East Asia) that seem to be really, really serious about accommodating population growth. (I was reminded about this because I just had dinner with a guy who, apparently, was one of the activists most responsible for SF's massive anti-development rezoning, back in the day; don't worry, I stayed polite.)
It seems to this occasional viewer that there's been a whole lot of Narnia on House Hunters International lately, though that probably just means that the crew flew out there once and did a lot of shooting. This is Lee's favorite show and certainly seems to be on at all times, but I'd never seen Narnia before a few weeks ago.
I feel fairly secure about our individual and then joint decisions to live in a less cool city with fantastic housing costs. I'm sure I'm cosmopolitan enough to enjoy the more meetup-friendly places, but I think I'd be scared to owe far more than we do now. I always live with a little bit of paranoia that something will get worse in my spine and I won't be able to work, and so having a house we can afford on one income if absolutely necessary keeps me from stressing about what-ifs all the time. So I recommend approach for people like me.
I had a 9 month fight with BCBS Illinois. My ex-husband got a dermatology exam, and after paying his $200 deductible, we were socked with a $600 bill. First I called the hospital (where we went solely because the insurance covered it), and they explained the full cost was actually $1500, and insurance had paid half of it. (When I asked how a half hour exam and a blood test would cost $1500 when a similar exam (at a later date somewhere else, after my ex cancelled his insurance) was under $100, the response was "we are a world class research hospital." O_o.) BUT ANYWAYS, it turns out BCBS paid half of the bill, and then denied paying the rest claiming a preexisting condition (which it patently was not). After getting a runaround at BCBS (including a threat to withdraw the payment for the original $700), I got enough details from the hospital to more forcefully argue my case, except I called back, only, after about 5 redirections and 40 minutes, get a guy who basically said, "our bad, we'll pay it." I guess they figure a less stubborn/cheap/vindictive person would maybe have just paid it and they would have been off the hook.
This reminds me, I need to deal with a $350 bill for a procedure that happened over a year and a half ago that insurance has also denied.
This may be due to peculiarities of the local market, but it would cost me a fair bit more to live in any rental unit comparable to my house.
Same here. Granted we bought ten years ago but we just refinanced to cash out 40k for a new exterior (steel on the roof and three sides of the house, new gutters, soffit, new windows) and even with our new loan it's still very true. New loan's an FHA for 192k, payment is 1266. The rental listings I've seen in this area for a house of our size (rambler with full basement, 2800 sq ft) are at least an extra 300-400 a month.
I would rather have sewage drip from my ceilings every day than deal with health insurance bullshit. I can't even read this thread because it makes me too fucking angry. I don't exactly condone violence but the injustice is so great that it seems wrong to just sit around idly accepting the abuse.
Is there an plausible explanation yet? (For the sewage, not health insurance)
I would rather have sewage drip from my ceilings every day than deal with health insurance bullshit.
Wait, if I'm recalling correctly wasn't your current plan to both have sewage drip from your ceiling AND deal with health insurance bullshit every day?
|| OMFG. (On the OP, however)
My colleague is being dragged through the rack. His wife (also a colleague) has cancer. It's cells of organ A, which are located near organ B, through some physiological oddity.
The best treatment would be to treat the cancer using drugs for Cancer A. Insurance company is insisting this is Cancer B, and therefore using the Cancer A drugs is experimental and not covered.
Colleague is petitioning some State Board of Insurance Regulations, etc, etc. Meanwhile, wife with serious cancer is currently not receiving treatment. (I believe. Or not the treatment they think is best.)
I want to punch somebody.
|>
Oh, crap, forgot to pseudonymize in 173. Sorry! It was 3 am.
I'm about to learn the joys of home-ownership as people are building a house for me in java
Hands up who read this as the language, not the island?
There is a thick layer of frost on the roof. The temperature inside is comfortable. The heating is not running. This is good.
182. Momentarily.
"What does your new house look like?"
"Well, it's sort of C-shaped..."