Wow. Good thing your house isn't on the ground.
HA HA TEXAS! GOD HATES YOU. FIRST DROUGHT, THEN FLOODS.
IT'S BECAUSE OF RICK PERRY. RICK PERRY AND EVERY OTHER GODDAMN TEXAN THERE EVER WAS IN THIS WORLD. BITE IT!
Yup. Actually, our house was built at height of the flood waters from a gigantic '98 flood - about 4' high.
From the radar, it looks like McManus is probably getting pummeled right now.
Hey, maybe God finally got around to answering Perry's rain prayer.
So, is Texas no longer on fire? I have trouble keeping track.
Because, you know "Texas on fire" makes national news, "Texas not on fire anymore" is more of a local story.
What about your rich neighbours? Are they ok? I guess God really does hate the poor.
We're the rich neighbors. We're fine, thanks.
You know who I blame for this? Algore the millionaire sitting in his great big house and flying around in jets.
People will keep building on flood plains. They do it here too. And then they act surprised and hurt when the plains flood. And then they do it again.
What can you say?
What can you say?
Not what you said. At least not until the carpet has dried out. Everyone in Texas is armed.
I don't know much about federal flood insurance programs, but are they somehow nefariously responsible for enabling people to build cheaply in flood-prone areas?
3: 4-5 inches in 12 or so hours, far from over yet.
Everything is like really wet. Little bit of leakage through the chimney, I fucked it up tree-trimming, but it's ok. Flash floods everywhere.
Dogs have been zoned out on doggie valium 5mgs. Lady dog has become horrible thundergunshy in the last couple years. She had to poop in her own backyard, searching for a spot with a little smell not covered in inches of standing water.
So sad, such unhappy doggies.
As for myself, I get complete insomnia with front changes, and haven't slept since yesterday.
Fucking Texas, get 25% of our annual rainfall in two days.
Any place is susceptible to flash flooding if the clouds just keep coming and coming and pouring rain. We got 9 inches in one day where I live. The water stuck around in places near the nearby creeks, but this street was perfectly fine to drive on earlier that day, and it was perfectly fine the following day. It was the first flood ever, in most of these places.
12: Yes. Libertarians get very worked up about this. Even the ones who live on flood plains.
Lady dog has become horrible thundergunshy in the last couple years
If you mispronounce that, it sounds terribly rude.
"Thundergunshy" rhymes with "Bermondsey". Accent on the second syllable.
15: non-libertarians get worked up about it too.
18: True. And they are right. On this point at least.
I recently had occasion to read a bunch of housing insurance forms for Florida (don't ask), and the number of things the policy did not cover was truly impressive: sinkholes, catastrophic soil erosion, the ocean rising to swallow the land, etc. Many paragraphs.
Non-libertarians are right on many points.
20: I knew a guy who lost a house to many paragraphs once and insurance didn't help at all.
Florida has sinkholes that are tourist attractions. I'm not sure whether that reflects more poorly on the tourists or the state.
Sinkholes, really? Those happen pretty otfen because of municipal plumbing failure.
Sinkholes were common around my home town. Not that they occur commonly, but they stay sunk, and grow over with new growth, so you have inverted mountains here and there. (Not actually that big, but it's a nice visual image.)
sinkholes, catastrophic soil erosion, the ocean rising to swallow the land
Swamp Thing rampages.
And alligators, and alligator-eating pythons, and Republican core constituents. Enter at own risk.
24: They happen naturally sometimes.
My conclusion was that we should let Florida sink into the ocean on its own schedule.
I've just decided that we really need a paddle boat so that we can paddle across the river to the park, instead of taking the kids the long way, along the road or train tracks. So I've been looking at paddle boats for the last hour. They're surprisingly expensive. Or not surprising, once I considered that it's an actual vehicle.
Also, it turns out they're called pedal boats, but old habits die hard.
29: I don't have that kind of patience.
I recently had occasion to read a bunch of housing insurance forms for Florida (don't ask), and the number of things the policy did not cover was truly impressive: sinkholes, catastrophic soil erosion, the ocean rising to swallow the land, etc. Many paragraphs.
Relatively early on in my career, I covered a deal which basically provided terrorism insurance to the World Cup. I was rather amused to learn that a) the insurance was void in the event of a world war and b) the insurance industry had evidently come up with a strict definition of world war.
30: What about a big canoe? Cheaper, or more expensive?
A canoe would be cheaper, but certainly not as classy.
Algore the millionaire sitting in his great big house and flying around in jets.
That's a big house. I bet he's actually a secret billionaire. People go into global warming activism for the money, you know.
Local craigslist has a "paddle boat" for $500. Holds four and has a built in cooler. I can't tell if this is supposed to be a pedal boat or not, but I think so.
But a garden variety Red-invasion-via-Cuba war wouldn't have been an exception?
The sequel to The Italian Job was going to include a massive hovercraft chase through the marshlands of northern Italy. Dammit.
Sinkholes, really? Those happen pretty otfen because of municipal plumbing failure.
In Florida, I understand that the problem is frequently caused by wells excessively drawing down the water table.
Libertarians may be against flood insurance, but I think they are also pro-sinkhole.
Here's how the pros fantasize.
Solid gold 3 billion dollar yacht.
Someone from the National Review or the Wall Street Journal needs to explain to me why envy is bad.
30: Tandem sit on top kayak. Indestructible, idiot-resistant (idiots are resourceful), and cheap.
44: With a baby and a toddler, I'd want something more containing.
Not that cheap new, but an awesome sit on-top-but-in-sort-of kayak. Super stable!
People will keep building on flood plains. They do it here too. And then they act surprised and hurt when the plains flood. And then they do it again.
What can you say?
You can say, No, motherfuckers. That's a floodplain, only now we call it a bypass and you aren't allowed to zone it for building. Then the local city says, Up yours, local control, sure you can have any permits you want, builder-developer people.
Now when I read newspapers, I'm always looking for clues about how many times people will go back. 'We were burned out twice, but I'll never leave and we'll rebuild this place again. We have the best neighbors and views ever so I'll rebuild as many times as it takes.'
I did finally read a guy saying, 'We built the house again from scratch, but it is still in the path of floods and I'm not doing that again.' Right now my private estimate is that people will go back between two and three times.
I'll tell you what you want, what you really really want.
Right now my private estimate is that people will go back between two and three times.
Arby's has a similar expectation.
I don't mind people building on floodplains as long as their houses are on stilts.
47: That's a floodplain, only now we call it a bypass
Why do you call it a bypass? Floodplain was too descriptive and well-known a term?
The State is coming up with a plan to create designated bypasses that will take most flood flows around cities through ag areas; these bypasses will be known and deliberately intended to flood so don't build in them! They're very large and will re-join the river downstream of cities.
There will still be floodplains, which don't have a downstream return to rivers, and cities will still want to build on them.
If it has a downstream return to the river, I'd call that a dry creek bed or something.
Or a wash, if I was wearing boots.
Someone should compile a site called "shit Moby Hick says about Arbies."
Misspelling to avoid getting sued.
45, 46: IMO self-bailing and easy capsize recovery are worth more than a little more enclosure, at least in warm water. This (sadly now discontinued in the US) is what I used when the boy was smaller, but this also works. Canoes and sit-in rec boats are well and good until some little person decides to stand up and lean over the side, and then they're not so good.
I don't want to get sued either.
Also, how about arroyo instead of 'bypass'? California is big on espanol.
Bigger than that. The bypasses cover tens of thousands of acres (farmed when not flooded) and are miles wide. They're to carry big floods (and hopefully nuture salmon young as they dry out in spring). The only real difference from this and the old floodplain is that the return to the river is planned and not blocked by the levees that contain the original river bed.
Remember that the entire San Joaquin and Sac valleys used to turn into lakes every winter. Similar concept.
||
Hey, is anyone local to San Diego? I may be getting sent out there for training in early March.
|>
59.last: I'll have it put on a pillow in needlepoint.
Then the local city says, Up yours, local control, sure you can have any permits you want, builder-developer people.
One of the documents we paid for when we bought this house was a flood risk assessment, because it's fairly low lying compared to where we were coming from. It looked fine, and when the local stream burst its banks it was fine. You're not obliged to get that survey, so I suppose some people don't, but it's money well spent to me. There are quite expensive neighbourhoods you'd have to pay me to live in because of the flood risk.
One of the worst two flood risk neighborhoods in my city (already quite flood-prone) was designated as not-buildable. But the son of a city council member was working for the permit department and unilaterally gave out a dozen or so permits for a kickback. That was pure fraud and he got in big trouble for it, but nevertheless there are now a handful of houses built that can't get flood insurance and are being told that they'll have to be raised to stilts with the owners saying 'What?! We bought houses that we thought were legal from developers! Someone save us from floods!'.
I know a monk in SD, LB, but I don't know if that's who you're looking to hang out with.
59: I'm still keeping my right to object to new bureaucratic words, but that makes sense.
60: That waterboarding school? The person I know in SD is kind of the opposite of a monk, but I am equally sure that LB does not want to hang with him.
Some of the areas around here only became flood prone after development upstream made the water run faster.
Eh. The concept is pretty literally a 'bypass'.
It isn't such an obscure coinage.
Hey, LB. Did your net nanny lock you out of the gambling thread yesterday. It was hard knowing that everyone was chatting and I couldn't see it.
It did. For a while I was locked out of the Purity thread for sex, and the Gambling thread for gambling. Clearly, we've got the same netnanny with the same settings -- they must sell to state governments.
(Interestingly, there's a Sex category, and a separate Adult category. Adult seems much more stable - Minivet's blog, e.g., is never available from work. But I don't know what makes something Adult other than Sex.)
67: That's what I don't like about it.
new bureaucratic words
I think the Yolo Bypass has been called a bypass for a few decades.
Megan,
Have you read "The Control of Nature" by John McPhee? So many endless examples of people moving back into the path of danger. Especially in "Los Angeles Against the Mountains". You would think that getting buried in a 6-foot deep mud flow would make you move away, but not really.
71: California is ahead of the world on those kinds of things.
So far as I can tell, the net nanny tracks something about the density of mentions of not-allowed words. My theory is that I get allowed back in if the conversation turns to other things and dilutes the forbidden topic. Y'all must have stayed on-topic yesterday.
You would think that getting buried in a 6-foot deep mud flow would make you move away, but not really.
Actually, I'd think that'd tend to make you stay right where you were when it happened. Did Pompeii teach us nothing?
F. I have. Great book. Well, my theory is that it makes people move away after the third time. The first two times they insist on re-building.
I don't know if I should be glad or dismayed that I was able to find a web proxy that lets me comment on unfogged. This computer continues to be blocked from the site on my home network.
"That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up."
||Math question. Let's say I have a cylindrical pressure vessel with ellipsoidal ends. I know the diameter of the cylinder and ellipsoid, and the 'height' of the ellipsoid part and the volume of the whole thing, thus the internal length of the cylinder. I also know the pressure and the stress and density figures. The things that can vary here are height and thickness.
How do I get the mass? The wiki article on pressure vessels has a formula for ones where the aspect ratio of the cylinder part is fixed as 2:1, but that's not the case here.>|
I was told there would be no math.
How many times was Ilium rebuilt?
Probably not more than once by the same people.
You get the mass by calculating the surface area and multiplying by the thickness of the wall and then by the density of the material.
Wikipedia has the formula for the surface area of the ellipsoid, so if you know the density of the material, bob's your uncle.
Minivet's blog, e.g., is never available from work. But I don't know what makes something Adult other than Sex.
My god, you're still checking it? That inspires me to try posting again. Does "r*pe" block off Unfogged threads for you? My posts about Livy might be the culprit.
81. Matter of debate, but around nine. However, at the moment being sacked and plundered by bronze age pirates isn't a high risk for most American suburbs, although that could well change.
Knossos was rebuilt half a dozen times due to earthquake damage (Hello, California?), but the only way to move away from that was to leave the Aegean altogether, so I have a bit of sympathy with them.
Man, I love Bob, but he would be one weird ass uncle.
That is, the surface area of the cylindrical bit is obviously 2πr(height of the cylindrical bit). You've got half-ellipsoidal caps on both ends, so that's a whole ellipsoid as well (I'd cut and paste the formula, but it's an image and I'm not going to format the math in a comment box). Now multiply by the wall thickness and the density, and you're done.
79: Use the cylindrical ended vessel formula and you won't be off by much.
If you need it closer use LB's method. If you need it closer still you'll need to calculate the volume enclosed by the exterior surface, that enclosed by the interior surface, and subtract the two, then multiply by density.
If this is for actual real-life engineering use the first method above and multiply by some big factor. Pressure vessel failures suck. Actually blow, but in a sucky way.
85: Rape by itself doesn't do it, I'm not sure what the trigger is. And I literally check everyone's blog if it's linked from their name, in proportion to how often they comment. Someone who comments a lot, I might idly click through ten times a day.
If this is for actual real-life engineering use the first method above and multiply by some big factor. Pressure vessel failures suck. Actually blow, but in a sucky way.
I'm figuring it can't be for real-life engineering or it wouldn't be a non-technical person's problem. I hope. Please. Shipping costs? Maybe figuring out structural support, but the people designing the support are going to be responsible for the safety factor, and they just want to know the weight?
You get the mass by calculating the surface area and multiplying by the thickness of the wall and then by the density of the material.
Wikipedia has the formula for the surface area of the ellipsoid, so if you know the density of the material, bob's your uncle.
That is also in question. I was planning on figuring out the thickness once I got the mass. For this tank's purpose, you really want to keep the mass as low as possible.
Real life purpose (rocket), but this is just to get an idea of how different designs/materials stack up for cost/benefit analysis. The engineering itself will be done by the engineers. And yes, there is a safety multiplier.
92: You're building a rocket, aren't you? Or maybe a zeppelin and this will hold the reserve hydrogen.
Insert "Not Exactly Rocket Science" joke.
92: Oh, I understand what you want now. Damfino -- you'd need someone who knows something about pressure vessels. Erm, surely there should be someone who knows something about pressure vessels involved in this project?
HA! It doesn't count as pwnage if it's a guess!
93: This is actually something where I have some experience - unless you are working with people who have seven figure budgets it's usually done by spec'ing the rough volume and pressure needed and looking for what suppliers offer. That drops the size of the design space down by an enormous factor.
I find that 2:1 semi-elliptical formula mysterious. It's underspecified if they actually mean for the ends to be generic ellipses. It is just the hemispherical formula with the width set to 2R.
In any case, if you want to make it as light as possible, isn't a hemispherical end your best choice?
I know this is probably a model rocket for Teraz's nephew or something, but I'm really hoping he's employed by a Hank Scorpio-style supervillain.
99: Yeah, I'm a little puzzled why the exact shape/dimensions of the vessel are constrained at this point. If they are, they are, but I can't see why they would be.
99 Spheres are a lot more expensive than ellipsoids. The cylinders are more in house, so W is whatever you want. Thickness is available in any number of small increments. As to the formula, I noticed that and just got more confused. It didn't make sense to me, but then I haven't needed to think about whether a formula made sense for a very long time.
101: It has to fit in the launch tube of the nuclear submarine he's rented.
Clearly, we've got the same netnanny with the same settings -- they must sell to state governments.
The feds seem to use a different system. I haven't had any trouble accessing Unfogged threads.
They also say infinite cylinders have a constant of 2, but that's not what you get when you look at the asymptotic behavior of the hemispherical formula. As the width increases, the additive constant of the endcaps disappears and you're left with a constant of 2π.
You know what I'd do? Phone the supplier, and ask for a callback from a technically adept salesperson (or a technically adept whoever). They want to make the sale, and they have the information you need: they should be willing to handhold you through the calculation.
Some constraints are due to ellipsoid/sphere suppliers, some due to the vehicle they're to be used on. The radius could actually vary a bit, but since it's only a bit, for this purpose it's easier to say it can't at all. That will be the engineers' problem once something is chosen.
106: Boooring. I'd definitely rely on Wikipedia and some internet pseudonyms. What's the worst that could happen?
There's a local road called the 10th St. Bypass. It runs along the Allegheny (and is frequently flooded), bypassing most of downtown, rejoining the grid at 10th St.
AB has lived here for 13+ years, has driven it countless times, and biked and walked alongside it. It gets mentioned at least 50 days per year on traffic reports. Last week was the first time she understood what road "10th St. Bypass" denotes, and she was incredulous. Because it doesn't bypass 10th St.
I'm really annoyed by the use of 'width' in those formulas -- I'd want to call that dimension either length or height. Width seems completely wrong.
You could join the ends, and then you don't have to worry about cap-shape at all!
108 The people who do understand this stuff get a nice laugh when they see it?
Since the suppliers are a shadowy, faceless international criminal organization, Teraz's reluctance to use the strategy in 106 is understandable.
114: I thought it was his employer that you were positing to be such an organization.
What, one shadowy criminal organization can't do business with another?
The 'call supplier' strategy isn't really an option for me right now. In any case the supplier isn't supplying pressure vessels, just chunks of precision engineered curved metal.
What, one shadowy criminal organization can't do business with another?
Sure, it could. That doesn't really explain 114, though.
AB has lived here for 13+ years, has driven it countless times, and biked and walked alongside it. It gets mentioned at least 50 days per year on traffic reports. Last week was the first time she understood what road "10th St. Bypass" denotes, and she was incredulous. Because it doesn't bypass 10th St.
Tight now is the first time I understood that too. And I've seen that road covered with over 10 feet of water after Hurricane Isaac. All I thought was "That water is almost up to the signs that hang from the bridge above it. What a dumb place to put a highway, I can't imagine how many detours people are having to make right now."
If they're precision engineered, make them do a sphere.
I have half a mind to try to derive the answer based on dimly remembered physics, but a meeting calls. Don't we have any actual engineers or physicists here?
120: I always knew it was intended to flood, but I thought the 'bypass' referred to traffic.
Calling the supplier may not be an option, but is there anyone you can call? This is clearly a 'look it up in the table' problem for anyone with the right table, but guessing your way to the right formula seems like it's going to be a problem.
Look, if you're working for a supervillain, the supervillain isn't an international criminal organization, he is a rogue scientist with a private island for a base (cf. that scene in Goldfinger where Goldfinger kills off all of the mafia). The international criminal organization is the supplier. The international criminal organization can't supply technical details over the phone to a low-level employee of the supervillain because that interferes with the shadowyness of the international criminal organization. It's like I'm the only one here with experience in the real world.
Wait a minute, is the rogue scientist Essear? Is this a trap? The room is starting to spin.
It's like I'm the only one here with experience in the real world entertainment industry.
Here are some lecture notes that were clearly written by a guy who could solve your problem, but they're not sufficient to give you an answer.
Linkfail. Here. Do you know a materials science grad student?
I suppose it's only fitting that Halford, being generally on the side of evil, would have the most insight of anyone here into the internal workings of the supervillain-international criminal organization relationship.
It was a 'look up the formulas online, I'm pretty sure they're on wiki' problem. Unfortunately they don't make sense, and googling around more didn't get me anything usable. Hence the plea for help.
Superheroes, on the other hand, buy in bulk from established contractors, whether or not they actually want a bunch of high-grade materials or just enough to build whatever they're planning.
Private islands have real problems with flooding.
Library trip? A book is probably going to be somewhat more explanatory and deeper than a webpage.
If the problem is "Supervisor wants an answer today, and will be cranky if I don't give him one," I'd approximate with the hemispherical cap formula so that I had something to show, and explain that the general formula's not online: shall I spend tomorrow finding it for you?
But I don't know what makes something Adult other than Sex.
Amortization schedules, IMO.
I was just in SD. There are nice rooftop bars downtown, the one with the view of the ocean has shitty music, there's one 2 blocks away that's only a couple of stories up above a good restaurant but is very pleasant.
I can offer advice for fun things in SD, if that's what's at issue. I am not in SD, however.
It's not clear how much time I'd have to do anything actually fun -- if the training comes through, I'll be working full days, and just getting out at night.
123: Yes, but the problem is enough of a pain in the butt that the bumschmerz/fun ratio is all wrong. The issue is that you need to do a stress calculation for the ellipsoidal endcap in order to get the thickness needed. I suspect that when you buy ellipsoidal endcap weldments the thickness varies so as to keep the stress uniform.
Using the hemispherical endcap formula ought to work well enough for initial design purposes unless the tank is pretty short. In the meantime I will look in Machinery's Handbook and see if there's anything useful.
Mostly everyone has that constraint. Just make sure you get a room with a private entrance, a different wing from your colleagues is enough to do it.
139 Not if one of the questions that needs answering is how do hemispherical and ellipsoidal cylinders compare.
This was supposed to be a pretty easy, figure out the heights for cylinders of n existing spherical tank equivalents take formula, input into a spreadsheet where you can plug in different materials for given shapes and see results task. And at my first glance at wiki, that's what it looked like.
141 Or maybe not, it does give you something. It just depends on how differently spheres and oblate ellipsoids behave under pressure.
It is not clear to me why so many otherwise intelligent people are crowd-sourcing info for this terrorist plot.
141: That does sort of mess with my cunning plan.
I checked the reference materials I have lying around and can't find anything that addresses the problem. Machinery's Handbook is a dud and all my vacuum tank materials similarly fail.
"That water is almost up to the signs that hang from the bridge above it. What a dumb place to put a highway, I can't imagine how many detours people are having to make right now."
What's nice is that the little strip park running between it and the river was built with flood-resistant plantings, so the 2-3 floodings a year don't matter.
Plus, nobody goes downtown very often anyway.
146: I look across at it from my current workplace. it makes a nice visual flood gauge although it floods much less frequently than the Mon Wharf does. And in fact, during normal operation* all of the dissected parts of dissected plateaus flood with regularity (an overwhelmingly high percentage of valley floor erosion happens during floods, i.e the "dissection" process). For instance.
*Among the abnormal circumstances are certain glacial configurations where the headwaters of previously robust rivers are cutoff by ice or stream capture, brief interludes of a few hundred years or so when half-bright upright apes operate a system of coordinated holding reservoirs upstream, and a fanatical devotion to the Pope.
Speaking of bypasses there was a lot of discussion last year when the Morganza Floodway was opened during the spring floods.
Huh. I just tried estimating the mass needed in the general ellipsoidal case and my answer doesn't depend on the eccentricity (Is that the right word? Geometry was a while ago.) of the ellipse. I'm also too low by a factor of three.
I think my 105 is just a misunderstanding, as their spherical and hemispherical formulas are consistent. I'm still mystified why the actual shape of the ellipse wouldn't matter, if that's really the case.
TLDR I'm unreliable in these matters. Consult a professional.
You need to build the container, fill it with water, dump out the water, and measure it, and that's gonna be your volume.
Have you read "The Control of Nature" by John McPhee? So many endless examples of people moving back into the path of danger. Especially in "Los Angeles Against the Mountains". You would think that getting buried in a 6-foot deep mud flow would make you move away, but not really.
Stand Tall, Florida!
http://fafblog.blogspot.com/2004/09/stand-tall-florida-florida-has-been-in.html
You make Giblets proud, Florida! Your devotion to the suburban colonization of nature is absolute!
Yes Californians get an earthquake now and then, yes it snows up north. But only you have decided to shuffle off to an enormous foul poisonous bog afflicted with giant man-eating lizards which is routinely punched from the sky by storm titans who seek to blot it from the very sight of God!
I'm also too low by a factor of three.
You forgot to multiply by &Pi?
You forgot to multiply by π?
You forgot to add the ';'? (also lowercase)
I thought there wasn't a closed form for the surface area of an ellipsoid. Must check. Also, if thickness is constant measured on normals of the interior, is the exterior an ellipsoid? Hm.
My family left Florida because the lakebeds were flammable, they were planning to pump sewage into some aquifers, and rooftop solar was nearly illegal.
151, 155: The problem isn't calculating a volume, or a surface area. The problem is figuring out how much material you need to contain gas in a given shape at some pressure.
Then I think _Shell structures in civil and mechanical engineering_, by Alphose Zingoni might be the trick, especially section 11.2. Google Books doesn't give me quite enough to be sure, and the part I can see is doing a problem that I think is more general than the one here, but it's interested in holding gas at pressure inside a spatial envelope determined by other constraints.
